ReverseVelocity
ReverseVelocity
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@Rogue11 said:
Must have been survivor mains brigading every single one of these polls when they asked for feedback? Seems they did exactly what killer players wanted. Par for the course for this year.
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But they *were* overtuned heavily in the Survivor's favor. The amount of god setups spawning was not okay, and it needed to be changed.
The issue was BHVR, like with 60% of their nerfs, went way too far in the other direction. The solution was not to right click > delete every asset near one side of every filler pallet in the game.
Also I do find it quite nefarious that you're accusing people of "brigading" just because the polls did not match your opinion. I've been seeing a concerning uptick in that kind of rhetoric lately (the majority disagrees with me = they're botting/alting/brigading, we're the "silent majority" etc etc), and I don't think it serves for any kind of productive discussion, it's very conspiratorial.
These polls were not the sole arbiter of feedback, either, there are many avenues BHVR pull from.
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Can we PLEASE stop this trend of putting in a horribly overbearing change and then going too far the other way in an attempt to balance it?
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031464#Comment_4031464
No you are though your complaining about a perk that nobody uses that has conditions to activate wanting a buff and your response is "if this gets buffs killer HAS to tunnel"
No, I said *your* perk buff idea specifically is a bad idea.
Second Wind should be made a bit easier to activate, like maybe dropping the heal % requirement (or undoing that "bugfix" that caused any amount of co-op healing to deny you an activation), but your buff has the complete wrong idea and would probably end up overtuned.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031433#Comment_4031433
That´s useful! Didn´t know I could detonate them
The Freddy rework was pretty extensive, so I'd recommend watching a video covering the changes so you can get familiar with his new kit quickly.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031436#Comment_4031436
Imagine complaining about a perk like second wind
I'm not complaining about Second Wind?
I'm taking issue with your theoretical buffed version which slashes the timer in half. That's like if I suggested buffing Blood Warden to last for 120 seconds instead of 60 and said to anyone who thought that might be a bad idea "omg IMAGINE complaining about blood warden"
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@BongoBoys said:
Buff Anti tunnel perks
Decisive Strike (DS) buffed to 5 seconds
Off the Record (OTR) buffed to 60 seconds
Second Wind buffed to 10 seconds
Babysitter buffed to 20%
Borrowed Time Buffed to 30 seconds for both endurance and haste
Duty of Care Buffed to last 15 seconds
Second Wind being buffed that hard would *require* the killer to tunnel when it's in play.
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@Wezqu said:
Dream pallets can stun you and its intentional. You should use the the secondary to blow them up when sleeping survivor is near them to make them lose health state. You just need to time it correctly as its not instant.
It should also be noted that Dream Pallets that are going to detonate can't be dropped by Survivors, and you can use that to stop yourself from getting stunned by your own pallets.
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Report them, they'll be banned like anyone else.
No need to ruin the feature for the many who use it to prevent harrassment due to a small fraction of players who use it this way.
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I hope you realise that they probably decided to revert the changes because the majority of the feedback they got was negative?
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This wouldn't really achieve anything, since you could just leave slightly earlier or heal tech for a couple of seconds.
It'd also probably have some effect on those close escapes where you have to crawl a little bit.
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There is no specific criteria, it's done on an individual basis.
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I'm glad you enjoy it, but I'm not a fan of how often it keeps coming back, at least in the current context. The only thing 2v8 iterations bring is more killers, and with Survivor being the majority of the gameplay (with the incredibly long killer queue times), having no new content on that front makes it feel SO stale.
It's got nothing to do with content creators, but I generally prefer the complexity 1v4 brings. The ability to make a build that works well together with your killer power, or a cool niche Survivor build is probably about 70% of the fun of DBD for me. 2v8 only really has 1-2 choices you can make in terms of what you choose to bring, and that makes it feel cookie-cutter.
You say 2v8 makes 1v4 feel tiny and mundane, but from my perspective, it feels like the other way around. There's far less variety and complexity and it just gets old so fast.
I wouldn't mind 2v8 coming back more often for those who enjoy it if it didn't affect 1v4 queue times so much by splitting the queue. It gets to a point where 2v8 coming back means I'm taking a break from DBD as a whole.
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I agree. This would be very useful with people with hearing issues.
It was a thing in mobile for the entire lifecycle of the game, kinda sucks that they only tackle these kinds of accessibility issues when there's backlash or it affects everyone (since mobile is played with the expectation that audio might not be there).
@Raptorrotas said:
If its similiar to the visual heartbeat? Maybe
Still will not make people stop comlaining when they let go as a skillcheck started.
But there cant be a longer delay between the warning and the actual skillcheck lest the skillcheck will be easily skippable.
They could literally just make a UI element flash up at the exact same time the skill check noise plays.
It should also take skill check warning modifiers (like Hex: Huntress Lullaby) into account.
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Break pallet and instantly catch up killer #500 would not be more fun for both sides.
Being able to use her inability to break pallets in Head Form is an important part of her counterplay.
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I honestly think Scarecrow would be a better fit than the Joker.
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@JustHelping said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028506#Comment_4028506
It takes 1 minute for full infection but go on
It takes 100 Charges to hit full infection, Wesker's Infection progresses at 0.8 charges/second.
100 / 0.8 = 125 seconds.
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There is a reason they made the Infection reduce to 1% instead of 50% straight off of an unhook.
You have over two minutes before you hit maximum infection from 1%, it really isn't an issue.
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Honestly, the sound design team on this game is REALLY good at their jobs. It's part of what makes Sadako feel so faithful.
Another more recent example I'd like to highlight is Krasue. Her sound design is so gross (this is a compliment) that it genuinely makes me feel a little nauseous sometimes.
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That's funny because what does it even do? You can't even see the name of the killer before the game starts.
"YOU'RE ON THE LIST!!!! that does nothing. we'll just call you a tunneller at the end of the game, which we were probably going to do anyway regardless"
It all seems like a huge waste of energy.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027144#Comment_4027144
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People seem to like it.
Sorry you don't :(
5.4k upvotes to 1k comments indicates that it's probably at least a bit controversial, to be honest.
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I mean, Tetanus SUCKS, and she is a paramedic after all.
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- Teamwork: Toughen Up
- Come and Get Me!
- Deception
- Low Profile
- Parental Guidance
- Teamwork: Collective Stealth
- Self-Preservation
Could all probably very safely get the Elusive Status Effect, since their effects are already incredibly similar, or completely identical.
Some other Perks that might be nice candidates, but would potentially get significantly better could be the following:
Balanced Landing
It'd be nice to have a stealthy exhaustion perk, and Nea fits that vibe very well. It's on the lower tier of exhaustion perks anyway. 3-5s of Elusive on activation.
Bite the Bullet
It could grant the Elusive effect to you, and anyone healing as well as suppressing the healing sounds, with a short linger time after. This one could potentially get out of control, though, with Self Care in particular.
Distortion
It already hides scratch marks, and giving it the whole deal would give it a bit of a boost in power after the nerf, making the actual stealth effect slightly better instead of more plentiful.
Hardened
Already has a high time investment, could maybe get Elusive for the same duration as aura reading.
Lucky Star & Poised
These are mainly here because of their long durations, but would probably be fine?
No Mither
This one would probably be really stupid but I'm gonna suggest it anyway, for the bit.
Spine Chill
Maybe this could give you Elusive when the killer's looking right at you, and increase the duration of the lingering effect to a couple of seconds?
Those are my ideas that I can come up with off the top of my head.
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The most important takeaway from this post is that Dead Cells is a REALLY good game.
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This is the biggest thing that's keeping me from enjoying 2v8 at the moment. The iterations are barely different, it's just a couple of more killers each time.
2v8 Survivor gameplay is so stale, even with a huge BP bonus it's kind of hard to bear. It's making me start to detest 2v8 coming back every time, it's just more of the exact same, and it kills 1v4 queue times for a couple of weeks each time round.
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If Legion was removed due to their ability to injure people too quickly (and subsequent synergies with certain killers), then Plague wouldn't fare well, as she has an even easier time of keeping people injured.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm in the minority here, I'm not actually sure it was just Starstruck Nurse who could benefit too much from Awakened Awareness having a linger.
Spirit was good with it on that PTB, as I recall, and I think even I managed to get some nasty results with Clown of all killers using the same combo.Besides, it's not as though AA is a bad perk or anything. Every time I end up running it through something like Chaos Shuffle, I remember that it's honestly a pretty damn good perk and I should run it more.
Then I don't, but that's on me, not on the perk.Never understood why everyone leaps to extremes for perk changes. Awakened Awareness, PTB Furtive Chase, current Tinkerer, none of these are nearly as bad as some people make them out to be.
I wouldn't even really buff AA or Tinkerer, though PTB Furtive Chase could use some adjustments.Honestly, I do run it sometimes, and the main thing I'd want is a small range increase. Something like +4-8m would be very nice.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026665#Comment_4026665
There were still a million different ways to approach it, like giving it a cooldown or just having it act differently on some killers instead of making it be unable to help you out more than once per gen. Particularly after ruin was gutted for a long long time.
I think Tinkerer is in a good spot, it's still a really good perk.
Ruin being put to 150% means that there's no way it should be buffed at all, either, Tinkerer meta was the most free info possible, and was the biggest snoozefest next to Eruption.
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Now that "some killers" were nerfed, I think it should probably go back to how it was.
@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026529#Comment_4026529
i’m still mourning over the nerf of tinkerer because blights could hard abuse it with 200% ruin and undying.
Tink deserved it. It wasn't just Blights abusing it, it was any killer with high mobility.
There were also like 9 trillion Pop/Tink/Ruin/Undying Freddy players.
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It's nice with Eyes of Belmont to see where the killer's moving after you get hit.
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Brazil doesn't have an extradition treaty with The Fog, hate to break it to you.
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You can't blame Legion for all your problems.
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I think Pig specifically would be a massive issue.
She's already a really good tunneller and you absolutely need to interact with the boxes. Making that a conspicuous action would buff her cheese strats even more.
There'd also be other issues like Singularity where you need to use an EMP to counter his chase power, so getting tunnelled off the hook would essentially make it so you can't EMP without instantly dying.
(Also you can't grab a Freddy clock in the Conspicuous Action window unless you're actively being tunnelled and the Freddy somehow loses you, you literally start awake off the hook)
All they need to do is undo the change made to Cenobite.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023909#Comment_4023909
They explained in there reason in the patchnotes that being able to chain an unhooked survivor was to easy to tunnel the survivor and low and behold this change came
Yeah, but that was in context of the Endurance timer being only 10 seconds, which is no longer the case. This change just baffles me.
No other killer has anywhere near a 30 second restriction on using their power on an unhooked Survivor. Singularity only has a 5 second window where his power is restricted.
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I honestly don't know why they decided to make Survivors with Endurance unable to be chained.
Like, you get 30 seconds of Endurance off Hook, that's so much time compared to how much a Survivor is chained for. The only reason it was remotely an issue before is because it was feasible to wait out 10 seconds, but now that's gone anyway.
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It'd become a bit too great, I think.
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You can avoid the explosions pretty easily. They're very clearly telegraphed.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023028#Comment_4023028
So, if you throw yourself at the killer for a bodyblock, let's look at that scenario- now for the sake of this argument I'm going to assume the killer does not peel off to chase you, and you have to keep running into doorways and such to bodyblock, since I tend to make these posts and comments on the good faith assumption that the killer in question is trying not to tunnel.
First, we need to acknowledge the obvious: Two survivors are being chased, leaving only two on generators. We must therefore be comparing this situation to one where the person who got saved doesn't bodyblock and instead goes to repair gens. We don't need to break down specific numbers, just keep that in mind.
Now, let's assume after downing the survivor, the killer does choose to hook them. We'll assume the survivor went down directly under a hook, or the killer has a perk they want to get value from, or something along those lines- otherwise the obvious call would be to just leave them on the floor, which will remain an option depending on circumstances, that mustn't be forgotten.
The question to ask is, what pressure does the killer get from this situation? First we'll acknowledge the possibility of perks, then move on to basekit.
The bodyblocking survivor is now immobilised with no way of rescuing themselves, unlike being slugged where certain perks could help them. That survivor is pressured.
Someone has to come rescue them, meaning they're probably leaving generators to do it. That survivor is pressured.
The killer, presumably, has gone to chase someone else. That survivor is pressured too.Even without progressing your objective, hooks are pressure and slowdown, that's how this works. You still benefit from everything other than directly progressing your objective when you hook someone this way.
Now, as I said in the post above, obviously it's better to hook someone who actually gains a hook state from it, but that's good, that's what we want. That's incentive to try and avoid hooking someone who has this mark on them, and only do it if there's some clear direct reason to.
On the survivor end, you have to remember that anything you gain here will be weighed against the opportunity cost of the generator repair you could be doing, and the lack of objective pressure that results after you've been put on the hook. It's not impossible to benefit from this situation as survivor, but it's not guaranteed either.That's kind of the bottom line I want to stress here, both sides have options and both sides can misplay by misreading what the best call would be. It's not survivors abusing a mechanic and killers being helpless, it's both sides utilising what's available to try and get the best value- both sides have agency, both sides are engaging with the game, both sides have choices to make. Clearly miles better than one side having practically no agency and the other side just getting free value, which is the situation now.
I don't think you really understand how much effective bodyblocking can rob pressure from a Killer, or how time consuming it is to actually take someone to a hook when considering efficient play.
Simply immobilising a Survivor by taking an extra 10-20 seconds to do so is negative pressure. It's a lose/lose, you either slug, and lose pressure since there's no real threat to it, or take a bunch of time to hook, and don't fundamentally get anything from it objective wise. That's not even mentioning the litany of incredible reset options that activate from an unhook (Resurgence, WMI, etc).
Taking a down for another Survivor can oftentimes be the optimal play, even without your suggestion in mind. Buying time by having a Survivor with less hookstates taking a down for someone who's dead on hook is incredibly effective.
Two Survivors can crank gens for free while the intended target essentially has two extra hits in a chase, and if you slug, you can leave them on the ground until they're nearly fully recovered and then run over to pick them up in a second.
That's not even mentioning perks like Unbreakable, where even doing this strategy once would cause such a massive shift in pressure that it could be game-ending for the Killer, as now you have two gens being worked on, without any sort of need to divert attention to the slug at all.
This idea just seems like there is a misunderstanding regarding macro play in DBD from your end, no offense. Completely risk-free bodyblocks are not something we should be adding.
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Terrible idea, that is essentially a free ticket for bodyblocking excessively after an unhook.
If this mechanic was in action, I'd bodyblock for the unhooker every time. They'd get two free hits and the killer wouldn't be able to hook me at all, since it'd be pointless. You'd be able to throw yourself at the killer with reckless abandon.
There is basically zero pressure in hooking someone without progressing your objective, especially compared to what bodyblocking potential it'd open up.
For extra points, you could run No Mither/DH. Tank two hits straight off of unhook and immediately put the killer in a lose/lose situation. The killer hooks you? No hook progress, but you gain an extra health state through DH again. The killer slugs you? Just get back up and keep going.
That, or just have another survivor with WGLF to delete any sort of slugging pressure that would be mandatory to progress the game, I guess.
This is just ONE of the scenarios in which it could be abused.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022811#Comment_4022811
Now see I'm against kicking, cause kicking favours mobile killers, both in getting there to apply it, and to catch up after kicking. That was always my criticism of the PTB, it did nothing to help lower mobility killers, everything to help higher mobility killers.
Who benefits most from a mini Pop, Haste and BBQ? Wraith, Spirit, Wesker, Blight, Nurse, Dredge, Krasue, Ghoul, Freddy, Houdmaster, Chucky.... none of whom really need crazy help.
Who benefits least from a mini Pop, Haste and BBQ? Trapper, Hag, Pig, Skull Merchant, Ghost Face, Sadako (often doesn't hook), Shape, Cannibal, Trickster, Deathslinger... the killers who need the most help.
Now if you wanna give say... Pain Resonance, 10% Bloodlust for 30s until entering chase, and the basekit aura reveal but without distance limitation, ...that is a bit more universally useful to all killers across the board.
This is the problem of buffing killer side imo… not all killers have the same game plan... somebody is gonna get left behind no.matter what combo of buffs you give...
Now if you perhaps gave the killer classes to pick from, like 2v8, to choose the form of their buffs... now we're talking a feature that might actually work.
If they make the Bloodlust significant mobility wise, then it will even the playing field in terms of mobility vs non-mobility powers when kicking gens.
Killers who use their power to get around won't benefit, as using the power cancels Bloodlust. However, Killers who don't have a mobility factor to their kit would be able to move more quickly to a gen to kick it.
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Fog Crystals are kind of obnoxious.
I'd rather see them buff the Fog Vials as they are.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022796#Comment_4022796
Hmmm... I guess, but I suppose the key differences of this compared to original proposed killer penalities are: -
- This effect is temporary, not permanent.
- I only affects 1 part of the Survivor team per hook, not the whole team.
- It doesn't stop the Survivor taking actions, just makes it less efficient.
- It isn't contradictory to the Survivor objective, you have a penalty for getting caught (which is already somethimg you don't want), not for doing something you are aiming to do, like completing a generator.
- It even encourages skillful play and Survivors playing risky by trying to take chase/make plays for max efficiency. (A survivor who has this penalty is better to be chased, instead of their non-fatigued teammates).
My one big concern is faster killers are gonna need to be brought back a peg or 2, because this is quite a boon for killers that can already play the anti-tunnel game and still realistically win majority of their games...
I mean I'm open to other suggestions, but if you consider someone like Clown... who is very adept at killing off one Survivor fast even through Survivor defences, where their whole game is on that coin flip of how fast can they kill one Survivor... how else do make killers like him viable where they can't exploit their main strength, unless their ability to down and hook rapidly for a basekit healing/gen slowdown is their strength?
It also has the nice benefits of making it so Survivor can't use their 30s endurance to linger near Killer priority gens and hex totems, then quickly rush them down when the killer leaves, there is added risk, cause they are slower and not as heavily rewarded for being risky.
I still don't think it's a good idea, even with the points you've highlighted.
I think BHVR already had a much better idea when considering bonus damage to the next generator kick, except the value could probably do with being lowered in the context of the reduced changes, probably like 5-10% extra instead of 20%.
This would give the killer means to get some extra pressure, without making it a slog for the individual Survivor hooked. It also incentivises leaving the hook with the added Bloodlust (which could do with being increased a bit from 5%), to be able to kick a gen that little bit faster.
I think any sort of measure taken to disincentivise tunnelling should primarily focus on giving both sides more tools to deal with tunnelling instead of penalising them for doing so. For example: Survivors get the tools of extra endurance, stealth and speed to more effectively buy time if they're getting tunneled; Killers get extra speed and generator slowdown for not tunnelling in order to maintain pressure without tunnelling.
Direct penalties feel terrible from a player's standpoint. Giving buffs for being tunnelled/not tunnelling is the way to go, in my opinion.
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I don't think we should be giving arbitrary penalties like this.
A big reason a lot of the changes were reconsidered was because adding severe penalties for certain actions felt awful, this would be a similar thing, but aimed at Survivors instead.
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It'd just encourage proxycamping for trades over and over again, just like release Pain Resonance.
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This is not a bug. The Axe applies Oblivious, and Dissolution requires a Survivor to be in the Terror Radius to activate.
Oblivious Survivors are considered to be outside the Terror Radius.
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I've been doing this the entire time I've been playing.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022512#Comment_4022512
I seen in a video a couple days ago of a good rework idea to Apocalyptic Ingenuity that honestly sounds like a great idea. the rework:
- Apocalyptic Ingenuity has a Cooldown of 60-90 seconds (rough estimate, cd could be changed due to strength)
- searching/rummaging a chest decreases the cooldown by 50% of its current timer.
- start the trial on cooldown.
- removed distance of seeing broken pallets, now map-wide.
this would make its strength significantly better by also keeping the identity and original design of opening chests to find and scavenge for remains within the maps.
I don't think it should be on a cooldown, it should still be a limited resource since it could *potentially* give a lot if you can get stuns regularly. Having pallets pop up all the time would be kind of a nightmare without Enduring.
2 Chests is way too steep, though. Should be 1 Chest, and I think they should add another Chest to the trial by default too.
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@MoZo said:
i’d also like them to revert the PTB to live nerf that Last Stand got. even in the PTB, 60 seconds was completely reasonable for the one time activation it had. it was also bugged in the ptb and allowed survivors to stun the killer on the opposite side of the vault and gave faster vault speed. now since it’s 90 seconds along with the removal of the unintended vault speed, it’s a really weak and niche perk that could use a buff. it’s just another case of the devs doing a nerf to a perk because people overreacted on the ptb (same with duty of care).
I mean, it'd be nice, but out of all the perks that need attention from the chapter, I'd say Last Stand probably isn't one of them.
I wouldn't say no to the nerf being reverted, though.
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I got hungry and needed a snack, sorry :(
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I'm honestly not a fan of his current power state. I've played a LOT of Trickster since his release (He's my 5th most played), but this version of his power feels pretty bad.
His main issues I find is his incredibly high TTK outside of Main Event, basically only having 1 addon slot (Memento Blades are a MUST), and the fact that his ammo count wasn't readjusted to fit the 8 Blade requirement.
I preferred him at 6 Blades to hit. It made him far more dangerous when you were caught in his weak spot, especially when factoring in the throw speed ramp-up. Him being 4.4m/s was a pain, but his power felt a lot more lethal.
The only thing I like about his rework is the dynamic with Main Event being more available as a resource, and feeling incredibly snappy when you can get it to work. I just think he's too weak outside of Main Event at the moment.
I will say I've been playing him more recently again and I've been having a bit of fun, but against really good players it feels like he's forced to play super campy and tunnelly, as he doesn't have much power otherwise.
I hope the rework hits the mark. I have a friend who's a really dedicated Trickster player and they made a bunch of suggestions (and even playtested some of them) which was interesting to see, and I hope BHVR considered what they had to say.
They said they're listening to long-time Trickster players this time around which makes me hopeful, because the initial design preview would've just been a massive nerf.
I think he was NEARLY perfect in his 6 Blade state. If they return to something similar, but with the improved Main Event and removal of recoil, I think that'd be amazing.
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There's a very tiny Wraith holding that up, give him some credit.