Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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my previous post was straight from the wiki.
they didnt implement a "Killer in chase" exception because they simply didnt think it necessary back then.
Survivors turned into potatoes. THEY think too altrustic: "We are a team and must ALL get out" , its worse on "bad" swf while "good" swfs ignore the guy on the hook.
Survivors being too altruistic or too greedy for the 1500 unhook points are the reasons that camping works.
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PTB #1 - September 2016
The first Public Test Build took place between 20-23 September 2016 in preparation for Patch 1.1.2.
The main changes the Developers intended to test with this build:
- improved Matchmaking
- new mechanic:
- slowed-down the Entity progression on the Hook if the Killer remained within a certain proximity of it.
It was their first attempt to create and implement an anti-camping mechanic. Since the new Mechanic got abused too heavily by Survivors purposefully kiting the Killer around their hooked team mate, the Developers disabled the Mechanic again.
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PTB #1 - September 2016
The first Public Test Build took place between 20-23 September 2016 in preparation for Patch 1.1.2.
The main changes the Developers intended to test with this build:
- improved Matchmaking
- new mechanic:
- slowed-down the Entity progression on the Hook if the Killer remained within a certain proximity of it.
It was their first attempt to create and implement an anti-camping mechanic. Since the new Mechanic got abused too heavily by Survivors purposefully kiting the Killer around their hooked team mate, the Developers disabled the Mechanic again.
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From the wiki.
Already tested, already abused
Survivors are the reason survivors cant have nice things.
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I think it would be better to just buff the killer to be stronger against survivors than adjust survivors to each killer.
Even survivors deserve to have constants in this game. I might add that survivors already hate how long it takes to do generators.
Also generators take 80 seconds by default.
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- You cannot put restrictions on Cwf, they have proven willingness to spend minutes getting into lobbies as " 4 randoms who coincidentally happen to be on teamspeak". It would happen again.
- If implemented, Ingame Voicechat cannot have restrictions like range or being able to be heard by killer, as Cwf would avoid those restrictions by using external programs like discord, skype or TS. It'd instantly degrade into a tool only used to hurl insults at killeres or nonmembers of the Cwf-group.
- The whole advantage Cwf happens outside of game mechanics, unless you add coordination tools, you cannot change the difference between normal and CwF
- Map rework is not an Cwf issue, it affects all survivors.
- All buffs to survivors will be boosted by Cwf, most nerfs mitigated or lessened.
- As example to the former point, providing information tools will also help Cwf, reducing the need to ask for or provide information, freeing time to strategize more.
- Just because ~95% of survivors are potatoes doesnt mean that the potential "sweaty tryhard cwf depip squadettes" dont' exists.
- "Omgogsgzotgl staaahp chaaaasing meeeeh" is equal to "killer on me, rush gens" in terms of information provided. The myth of survivors "just chatting" is laughable.
As we cant get rid of Cwf we might need to give swf and solo ping tools(mobas/apexlegends) or message systems (counterstrike/IdentityV) to lessen the gap. There has been some idea of a "current action icon" on survivor status somewhere in the forum too.
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@altruistic said:
These arguments are hilarious.
The same people saying Nurse is fine because brand new rank 20 players struggle with her, also claim the game should be balanced around the highest rank Survivors.
The amount of bias is hilarious.
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KillersNurse should be judged and nerfed by the best players playing her. - Survivors should NOT be judged by potentail of the best players.
Survivor double standard at its finest, hillarious.
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The problem is that Madness is supposed to be annoying to deal with. The whole concept of doctor was to annoy survivors, "breaking the game", remember?
Then devs did a 180 in their design philosophy somewhere before or after spirit's release and now killers must be fertilizer for the potato field.
Cant have an annoying debuff permanently on potatoes.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601449#Comment_601449
Imagine not knowing what a lie is.
Yeah that'd suck.
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@anarchy753 said:
He could quite reasonably lose the 2 forms.
It would make him a lot more streamlined if he could simply be an M1 killer with the ability to zap when he chooses to. It would also put more power into the killer's hands to make better use of the stun as they aren't slower, followed by a channel THEN going for a hit from it.
I imagine he's going to lose a LOT of the screams and potentially all of his tracking will be limited to add ons since survivors don't like that and what survivors don't like goes away.
While getting rid of the stance system and givi g him static field and the shock as M2 would be a good buff for the killer, i doubt it'll happen.
- He'd lose the movement speed penalty, which would give devs reason to gut the shock and field
- He'd need new animations/skeleton rig, as currently punishment and treatment mode fature differences, making him use his right hand for shocking? Are you a madman? Do you know how long that'd take the devs to build? (Sorry for sarcasm)
- Un-"fun" for survivors if he can shock and then attack right after without delay or has permanent static field.
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What if i told you I knew the definition before I directly went to wikipedia to look it up there?
Didnt use google. Do i get 150 now?😘
Fine you got me, we cannot know if survivors are getting schrödingers nerfs or not, unlike the nurse who has confirmed
nerfs"tweaks" incoming. But how likely are survivor nerfs going to be... And i mean potential crushing gutting of mechanics instead of some slaps on the wrists. Not likely.Oh and back to topic: the double standard still stands. The god-nurse gets the tall poppy treatment while "sweaty tryhard cwf depip squadettes" still can do what they want.
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Aside from me being halfways trolling probably even very obviously, you implied that i didnt know what a double standard is, which is untrue, which would be you telling a lie.
Also i never even mentioned that survivors didnt already get nerfed from time to time. Its just that they still have the maximum potential of doing swf communication tryhard depip genrush squaddettes. Which hasnt been nerfed NOW that we are going to get the nurse "tweak".
Another false statement of yours btw. Do i get 100 now?😘
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Can i have those 50 bucks now? I know what a double standard is, contrary to your statement.
A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for situations that are, in principle, the same,and is often used to describe freedom that is given to one party over another. A double-standard arises when two or more people, circumstances, or events are treated differently even though they should be treated the same way. Margaret Eichler, author of The Double Standard: A Feminist Critique of Feminist Social Science, explains that a double standard “implies that two things which are the same are measured by different standards”
Nurse is getting nerfed because 5% of them are gods.
Swf or survivors are not getting nerfed even if 5% of them are gods.
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- So Swf tryhard teams with communications playing optimally should be ignored because its an edge case?
- Uber god nurse totally needs to be nerfed although most players suck with her?
Double standards yet again.
Showing a swf size chart across all ranks isnt really comparable to a kill per rank chart. Im pretty sure that'd 4man would be higher if they showed swf/rank
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- Remove herrmophage and put the effect into mangled
- Remove addons focused on status effects. Put those status effects on other "already balanced" addons as bonus.
- Actually make status debuffs threatening, more effects.
- Longer durations
- Give the "repair speed penalty" debuff a name already so it can be on more than just the dirty chainsaw-chains.
Thers plenty of things that could change the current situation. Too bad it requires brainpower and willingness to make inconveniences for our potatoes.
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Remember when upon his release we thought we would get moving basekit illusions sometime in the future?
I dont see a reason for that addon to have a downside(less illusions or no notifications) as survivors could easily interrupt the illusion's shock by just dissipating the illusion by touching it. Wouldnt the whole intention of that addon be to spread madness in a wider area with static field/TR so that those screams happen?
Your idea would turn the doc into a simplified hag, as you dont need to set up traps but can just teleport to survivors.not saying its a bad idea, but its turning him too similiar to another exisiting killer. Although i like the instant swap to punishment mode so he could instantly attack.
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Thing is, killers wouldnt need to become slow killers to get "good" powers if the devs wouldn't cuddle survivors for not wanting to go against un-"fun" killers.
Cant have normal speed plus good ability. Think about the bad survivor potatoes ( but not the good ones who spit on any killer not wearing bonesaws).
And to be honest... In my opinion most of the newer killers have bad abilities, even spirit.
While arguably her inability to see survivors while haunting is "balanced" because she can attack instantly, it doesnt excuse the fact she needs a damn addon to see blood.
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Whats wrong with wanting a normal speed killer with a good ability?
For the longest time Hillbilly was considered the best example of a balanced killer.
Slow killers become severely crippled when their ability cannot be used correctly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600503#Comment_600503
Nurses in training should not be taken into account while discussing balance of the game - let us make that perfectly clear. Nurse is a very weak killer in hands of people who start to main her and we all agree we should balance the game around the highest level of play. Now getting that out of the way my proposition still stands - Barin or you can prove how balanced she is in KYF. I know quite a few of pro Nurse mains and games against them can be scary - you can prove to me she's balanced with 5 blinks. Please I want to be debunked and proven wrong.
"Survivors in training should not be taken into account when discussing balance of the game - Let us make that perfectly clear. Survivors are weak in the hand of potatoes and we all agree we should balance the game around the highest level of play."
I'm sorry for mocking Thaznar, but if this adjusted quote seems silly, welcome to "survivormain" doublestandards.
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Survivor touches hatch: escaped
Kilker touches hatch: doors powered and another chance at escape for survivors?
Killer still has to find, chase, hit and hook the last (or any other) survivor. Where did that "free kills" nonsense come from?
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@Redcum said:
Survivors definitely need tweaking but so does Nurse. I just want her fatigue time to be longer and maybe her movement speed when charging her power to be slower.
Nurse charges her first blink at ~72% and chain blinks at 29 (fatigue is 24%)
(Huntress/Doc move at 77% while charging.)
Nurse already is the slowest killer while walking or charging her ability.
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Doesnt sound as impressive as hatchet snipes, but i really enjoy chainsaw hits. Especially if you curve around a corner and randomly down someone.
Also trapping survivors between a jungle gym wall and a generator as wraith.
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More atmosphere sounds good. Graphical improvements are mostly good.
But "just maling things dark" will only help sirvivors. They can blend into the blue'ish lighting of macmillan maps already and turn invisible in the shadows of red forest. Double so for claudette.
After a certain threshold, the killer would need a bigger fov and/or the red stain wprking as actual flashlight (you know, brighten the center of the screen)
But more fluid animations, optimised textures etc are always weöcome.
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Selfcare saves time, you dont have to look for others, the others dont have to look for you, and the others can do more important stuff than healing you.
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Nurse can be fixed easily:
- Removed all but one addon that gives extra blinks.
- +1 blink is now UR
- Maybe some value/ effect cjanges on other addons.
Doctor is .... easy to make stronger, but hard to make less annoying as that's his design intend.
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@knell said:
It doesn't matter if certain SWF players are incompetent, unskilled, or "just having fun." Just like it doesn't matter if certain Nurse players are incompetent, unskilled, or "just having fun." The game still needs to be balanced around competent and skilled players who aren't goofing around and just handing their opponents easy wins. If one side is focused on the game and determined to win, and the other side is simply fooling around, then it's obvious who should win. So balance the game with that in mind.
It doesn't matter how rare good SWF groups are to play against, just like it doesn't matter how rare great Nurses are (especially on consoles.) The game still needs to be balanced at the top, so that the most skilled players playing against each other, with the strongest tools they have, have a 50/50 chance of winning. Once they determine the ultimate skill cap, then they can proceed to balance from top-down.
Buffing and nerfing killers is meaningless until they balance solo survivors and SWF to be on the same level. It's way past time Behaviour addressed this seriously, instead of continuing to deflect the problem, fully knowing that it affects the overall balancing problems in DBD. Hopefully they will be discussing their plans on SWF balance in a Developer Update in the near future.
I bet this is gonna get ignored by anyone defending "swf". Have an upvote!
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597499#Comment_597499
Now that's a solution. Make it so that SWFs have to complain that no one wants to go against them, and then when asked why, they'll say that it's because they asked for killers to be nerfed so much.
They will rather be enraged "that there's only cowards who dodge a slight challenge" than admit/realize it's their own fault especially while theyre lobbying against killers with the same argumentation.
Spirit next btw.
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2/3 of your games "prove" that camping is only a problem for survivors because survivors are taking the bait.
Killermainbtw.
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It would be less annoying than ingame vc, because vc can not have restrictions, else survs swap to discord etc to ignore those restrictions.
Ping tools might work better, give it a slight cooldown tp prevent spamming and you might get something the survivor:killer balance can get moved around. (Obviously needs killer buffs as compensation, killermainbtw)
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Nice explanation.
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Survivors x4 dictate flow of the game: fine and balanced. Using external means of boosting performance, allowed.
One of FIFTEEN killers dictstes the flow of a chase instead of dully reacting to survivor loops: OmG nErF ThAt oP....
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Survivors got bad and dont get better because they dont have to.
Killers swap to nurse because she's one of the few to RELIABLY compete with survivors.
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As edit doesnt work...
I forgot to mention that the movement speed article is heavily WIP and even the nurse atticle sadly doesnt feature the actual chargetimes or chainblinkwindow durations
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The wiki's movement speed article. While some question theat site's accuracity, im sure those nunbers are valid.
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While you are somewhat reasonable in your approach, you shouldnt get swept up in "main logic".
Nurse's "333%" doesnt last much longer than a second as a ~2 second blink would result in 26m range.
Also her ability consists of more than the "blink"
- Charge: slows her down to ~72% for X seconds
- Blink: ~333% for maximally barely 2 seconds
- Chain blink window for either ~38% when walking or 29% when charging next blink
- Second blink with reduced range
- Fatigue with 24% for 2-4 seconds depending on blink count. Dont forget the disorienting.
Im aware that i dont have the durations for her slowdowns.
One usage of her ability slows her down a lot.
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While other killers will never habe the mobility of nurse, theres other ways to make them strong in a different aspect.
Arguably we could take notes from overwatch etc and give killers multiple abilities.
Or "secondary subskills" like sentry wards or "teleport to a generator every 120 seconds (identity v has those)
Trapper for example could place barricades to block a location/window/doorframe (obviously destroyable) but also traps those to damage would-be destroyers, tripwires would work too, maybe shared ammo with a bola shot to trip survivors from a distance. And those ideas were only thoight up in öike 10 seconds.
If the devs really wanted to, the killers could be much more versatile.
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External voicechat for strategy and "just chatting with friends"
The other for racial slurs and trashtalking the killer.
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Well, that was partly what depipsquad was treying to prove. Its funny that their games without voice chat also had rather good results if i remember correctly.h They only like a 3 point guideline and it somewhat worked out.
Its nice (for the lack of a better word) to see another experiment. But if base nurse gets nerfed, negatively reworked or legion'd, it'd create a first case the lobbying survivors break down the best killer, entitling them to do the same to the next best killer. And the devs already did some changes to the game while caving in to survivors.
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In a experiment to prove how op the nurse is, the informed survivors are doing their best?
Excuse my doubts.
Killermains going survivor and dominating random killers proves survivors being stronger more than a "god nurse" squishing random survivors proves nurse being broken.
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Is this one of those brillant ideas survivors accuse us killers of lobbying against?
He has a cooldown, forced forward movement and reduced steering.
Leave the old killers alone, the devs are already creating trashy newer ones for you
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While i can somewhat understand the notion of camping being bad (even if the vultures still want that bait), tunneling is a smart thing to do.
And just to piss the others in this thread off, how often do you think survivors swap generators every 25% of progress just because killers feel that forcing a generator completed as soon as possible is scummy?
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For the rank there would be needs for reward, be it bp or shards depending on your rank and boni for games played to keep playing once you reached that rank.
The problem with most killer emblem categories is that instant down abilities or exposed hits only count as 1 hit.
Chaser only grants the "hit" and "chase won" scores once per instant down. It would be better if the hit score was doubled. (Dreamlike would be if the "chase won" was doubled too, but there was only 1chase, so im not sure) some killer abilities would need to be looked at too, as trapper can hit or down people without chasing AND hitting them. (If he doesnt hit a survivor before getting them out a trap he gets no score i think)
The same applies to malicious.
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Oh i like the "survivorS have to work for adrnaline and hope" - argumentation because its totally
false.possible for those running the perks to activate them without touching a generator. Most vids i see on yt proccing adrenaline are NOT when finishing a gen yourself.There are no free kills unless a survivor rages or gives up and just lets himself get killed. ANY other scenario involves the killer doing something, even NOED.
Also survivors shouldnt complain about others on "not having to do anything" for a free win.
Hatch.
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Survivors dont know what they should be doing or learn their timing/risk calculation or map awareness because their teammates on comms are doing that for them. No need to look around when your brah is squawking through the mic that he's chased.
And dont forget: "nobody plays like depip squad"
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Its not a crutch, its an endgame perk. The killer prepares for the situation that all generators get done.
It's trigger isnt neither dependant on a players skill, but the game reaching a certain stage.
What makes it different from survivor endgame perks is thast NOED is a hex, and thus can be prevented BEFORE and AFTER its activation.
Sorry for the rant. Back to topic.
I think your idea is weird, for the lack of better words. It is more of a bloodwarden rework, and honestly doesnt need the "generators are powered" anymore. Personally, i also think your "skillful" condition of hooking ALL survivors is more difficult to achieve than cleansing 5 totems.
The effect itself becomes rather weak because survivors will, unlike with bloodwarden, be aware that they cannot leave and thus will hide away from the gates, if affected.
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Wait? OP intended for killers to see this too?
Thats certainly outside my expectations and honestly cant foresee how'd it affect the game.
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I think OP is requesting a general increase of sacrifice time, regardless of camp. A flat killer nerf. Sounds very "killermainbtw" to me.
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Without adding new mechanics, reload time and reload movement speed, gas area of effect,
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Must be hard to have a 2/16 chance to get a killer which dictates the flow of a cjase instead of just reacting to you.
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So additionally to not being able to hear the sirvivors, we should see them either?
Nope. Not for killers atleast.
Narrow fov, perpetually bugged sounds and then even darker maps?
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A 43% chance is high per survivor.
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Your idea seems reasonable, although i guess the devs would make disposable randomly spawning cans instead of gas stations (just pick them up and run to a gen)
But Im split on the regression on generators. Yeah gas is important but you have 20 charges surplus on a second visit, maling regression even worse than before.
The whole problem that gen tap does stop regression is a seperate but important matter. With your idea, the already weak regression goes even weaker.