RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647627#Comment_2647627
To be honest, from a developer stand point, this is a massive void where meaningful perks of this type could be added to the game. There are no survivor anti-loop perk counters in the game. Its a perfect place to add meaningful perks into the game for survivors, to counter something that doesn't have counters yet.
A perk that lets survivors make killers be m1 killers who have to loop and can't use their powers anywhere near a loop is not the perfect place to add anything. It's just a giant middle finger to killers because it's one more random ass perk to be played around until you know it's not there that shuts down the only thing you can really do.
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It has basically every flaw that a map can have at once, so yes.
But it's so faithful isn't that more wonderful than gameplay? /s
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Doesn't the tentacle hitbox also work like a pole you can drag across windows etc? It's not intuitively following the animation.
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Without any addons, the teleportation notification for Pinhead might as well be a middle finger, though. At least if they're not charitable enough to stand in an open field.
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Ranks no longer have anything to do with matchmaking. Also, everyone's rank was reset less than a week ago, so people who play less intensively won't be back up to red.
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What, you don't like 80's fashion?
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645870#Comment_2645870
Honestly I think we're already there. Yet another killer and survivor is about to be released with their own set of perks, and since everything needs to be leveled up to tier three to be the most effective, means that everyone's in store for a massive grind, especially if they want those perks on all of their killers and survivors. And like you said, God forbid if you are a new player because you're getting screwed the most.
It sucks, yeah.
Oh look, all the perks I want to use, whether meta or because of fun interactions, are spread out across like five characters aside from the ones I want to play! Totally enjoying the "spend a week grinding someone to 40 because I just want access to one perk". /s
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Pretty, but no. Too dark to be functional.
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@lordfart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646819#Comment_2646819
I feel pretty much the same, I have so much more trouble in the survivor role because I feel so powerless a lot of the time, and I get way more stressed out because there's 3 other people I can let down. Whereas with killer, I can unclench my anus because the only person I can mess the game up for is me so I get to have fun and not worry about accidentally sandbagging teammates lol
It's feeling powerless as Killer that really gets to me. It's supposed to be the power role, so why does so much of the game always feel completely beyond my control? RNG'd into a map with strong loops and not playing someone with strong anti-loop potential? Better hope the survivors are dismal otherwise it's pray someone messes up in time I can really do something with the game.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647289#Comment_2647289
Yeah many swf are ######### but how many times do we say to not balance for the bad players?
You're missing the second part: good SWF will get even better, because now they have more information to go on, which means more can be inferred and communication is even easier.
All you do with this change is make it miserable for killers, because now they're at a massive information disadvantage against every damn team regardless of skill. And high-level killers would have a hell of a time ever outplaying SWF.
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@Munqaxus said:
Then there needs to be meaningful skill based interactions outside of looping. When you go against the Nurse, Pyramid Head, Nemesis and The Artist, the best strategy is to hold "w" and run to the furthest corner away from your teammates and pre-throw pallets. It's almost the same for The Doctor and Deathslinger, although you can somewhat loop them.
Survivors only have 1 thing they can do, that's loop. Unless another mechanic is added, then for survivor gameplay to be interactive, then killers have to conform to looping.
I would say add perks that temporarily prevent powers from passing through walls. Maybe a perk that prevents powers from passing through walls and pallets in 32 meters for 30 seconds, when you vault a window. Or a perk that has tokens and when you activate a token, powers can't pass through walls and pallets.
Then survivors have meaningful interactions with those type of killers.
Your idea of meaningful interaction is "force killers to be M1 killers that have to loop". That's definitely not a non-looping form of interaction.
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@XLbuff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647293#Comment_2647293
Sure, because holding W, predrop pallets and heal with boon totems is far more fun for both sides.
Means I spend less time staring at walls and spinning around, it's a plus.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647281#Comment_2647281
Except for the things swf already have idk what you're not getting here
This always assumes SWF is perfect about communicating everything, so might as well give perfect info.
But as many, many SWF players seem to want to say in defense of SWF balance, they're not that perfect and some of them only want to play with friends, not perfect comms. Which, if true, means this also buffs SWF even more. And then, now that SWF has better base information, they can communicate about that even more.
Buffing solo to have the information skilled SWF theoretically has gives skilled SWF even more information.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647274#Comment_2647274
Add voice comms, balance game around SWF.
Penalise SWF somehow, don't throw all notion of imperfect information out the window for everyone else.
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Oh great, the clicky clicky brigade could be even more obnoxious.
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@jesterkind said:
Don't hold back now, tell us how you really feel.
What are you still doing here, man? If I felt this way about any game I'd stop playing it in a heartbeat, I don't fully understand the mindset behind feeling this way but still sticking around to make posts on a forum dedicated to the game.
Hope that the devs might listen and things will change?
Also, bloody-minded spite is a great motivator for doing something.
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If I had fun and the thing is nearby. If I'd have to wait for you to find it and we're close... eh. I want to move on, please.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647138#Comment_2647138
Yes but as an asymmetrical game it should be fun for both sides especially when they are interacting. The only time killers and survivors interact is during a chase
Holding W to catch up at 0.6m/s, only to go round and round a shrubbery, very fun. /s
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Of all the meta things to complain about, the one that's particularly there for its BP and gives survivors what they want?
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@Warcrafter4 said:
The real reason is that M1 killers have been power-crept so badly by survivor perks that they can no longer function at a viable level.
Hey, I said one reason. Not all of the reasons. 😁
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646803#Comment_2646803
Sorry I may sound stupid, but what is CoH?
Circle of Healing.
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But can you share your statistical analysis?
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Whoever's colourful because they're not being annoying and trying to blend in.
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@Junylar said:
Doing the bones is the counter you are looking for. Or does it only work in defense of killer perks?
I mean, one of the complaints is that even doing the bones is a benefit to survivors. Killers have no easy way to detect boons except get close (can't run a perk for that) or memorise exact totem spot when starting with e.g. Thrill, 4s spent on it is a net gain in time for survivors (14s to light boon vs 16s of no pressure, per team, whilst they're snuffing), and if they do... it can just come up again.
It's a way to create infinite time wasting or get a strong AoE perk effect for everyone.
Survivors do bones, that effect is gone for good.
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People won't do the box, won't learn to do the box, and then chain hunt starts. Even then, on a large map they still have a good chance of shutting it down just by dint of getting to the box way before Pinhead can. Sure, he can teleport, but it takes minimal effort to then have an LOS blocker in the way, and it's just another chase.
So instead, make as many of the add-ons as useless as possible! Now there's no way to buy enough time to interrupt the solving; "at least have to look for the box rather than immediately see it" has a range nerf; and the engineer's fang nerf means his chance of getting a follow-up hit to take advantage of the injury is even worse.
It doesn't help that the turn rate/chain distance add-ons are almost actively harmful, since the aim is super twitchy at the beginning even before it's increased, and the longer the chain is before it stops = longer you're stuck in an anim if you didn't aim at an object/the floor.
It seems people want a killer nerfed into having a hard-to-aim anti-loop power that doesn't even work on any moderately sized loop and easily loses you chases if missed, because learning "do the box" after more than one or two games is too much thought.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646457#Comment_2646457
"I'm saying the radius is only useful insofar as it lets us derive information that is more relevant to the balance of it."
This is exactly why the radius is more useful. Even if you want to do an approximation, that's still easy to do with the radius. Like I said, there is NOTHING the diameter accomplishes that the radius doesn't.
Idiot-proofing?
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I'm saying the radius is only useful insofar as it lets us derive information that is more relevant to the balance of it. Either area if you want to do the direct calculation, or diameter if you want to hack it together in 5s with no actual maths. Approximation has a place.
Though I think this thread was made because of people saying "only 24m". That's quite a lot if you can have that placed multiple times (the downside of BBQ is the exact same thing: < 40m radius from any hook on a surprising number of maps is "everywhere").
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646051#Comment_2646051
Solo stomping perk therefore unhealthy game design.
Solos shouldn't have to use perks, items, or offerings for information that SWF get for free and this being the case perpetuates the lack of balance in this game.
You can't design an asymmetric game of limited information and then decide one side actually needs constant perfect information about almost everything.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645577#Comment_2645577
"If enough people understood enough of maths, and had the ability to apply it on demand, that this mistake wouldn't happen, lotteries would probably be way less popular than they are."
They only need to apply the definition of radius. That is, at the absolute most, intro math in high school. We're not talking calculus here.
"If I tell you a map is 100m across..." Pretty sure I already explained that part only one post earlier."
Across what? The center of the map? The outer edge? Only now are you actually bothering to mention the shape.
"Now, if I then grab the diameter, it's two totems to cross the map from side to side. Keeping to this rough estimate, if we then assume the map is square and use the diameter as the length of a square, we can estimate that four totems will give you most of the map covered--nearly 100% by the estimate.
And if we then use actual calculations, it's 10,000m^2 and 1809m^2, so those four totems actually cover ~72% of the map. Not bad for an estimate that required no actual specifics. Then compare with the size given for e.g. wreckers just now, and all the numbers line up pretty well."
Why use the diameter? Why not use the radius? If the answer is "it's confusing," I refer to my statement about intro high school-level math.
And yet, people will still get radius intuitively wrong no matter how simple the maths is.
The centre of the map or the outer edge are likely the same across in most cases anyway. Because that's square, and that's simpler. And this is making assumptions for simplification for estimation.
As for why use the diameter in this case? Because if we're trying to do broad, super-quick estimates using squares, diameter maps to side length, radius doesn't.
I don't know what you're arguing against here. I'm not saying change the description. I'm saying it's not the useful value for most purposes related to boons and all its derived values are more practical.
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Obligatory joke: apply directly to the forehead.
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@shitman said:
I just want to play with players from my country, am I asking so much?
If everyone did something like this you'd have a vastly diluted player pool and everyone would have an even harder time finding matches. So... yes?
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@GoshJosh said:
This along with Discordance just provide too good of information to a killer with no downside, in my personal opinion. Throw in there the undetectable effect with Tinkerer for free, stealthy gen defense.
The downside is it's a limited time window to act on and if you can't it's not giving you information you wouldn't have gotten when the gen completes (where the survivors were). Discordance requires the survivors to do a particular thing to activate it. So they do have their downsides.
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Maps large enough that most killers cannot possibly get across them faster than a gen can theoretically be completed.
Not just for the gen thing, it's just plain silly (and it feels like the only radius that actually functions with huge maps in mind is BBQ, since its info is riddled with enormous deadzones or "basically an entire smaller map")
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I guess that's that, then. All balance should be directed towards this one guy's vs Huntress game.
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@Zachcjjj said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645583#Comment_2645583
i dont entirely disagree dont get me wrong but ruin undying even with boons is still op especially if you have a drop chase playstyle to defend every tinkerer
do bones
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@BadLooperQ said:
Yep...this game is so survivor sided that right now I had a game where I've been facecamped by a huntress aiming a hatchet at everyone and I died with 2k points. But let's pretend killers have a hard time
"I had a bad game. This proves everyone is wrong and talking about nothing."
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645514#Comment_2645514
"I'm sure some people are just using radius=range in their head."
The radius is the range. That information is indeed correct.
"As for the 100m not telling you anything, I mean, it does: it tells you how many totems you need to bridge it from one side to the other."
What is 100 m? Length? Width? Diameter? Hypotenuse? What shape we talking here? Like I said, does not tell me anything.
"When we're doing quick and dirty estimates rather than exact calculations, mixing radius with lengths is asking for issues"
Only if you don't understand basic geometry. If you understand what a radius is and what a diameter is, you shouldn't be getting this wrong. If you do get it wrong, that is your fault for not understanding it, not the game's for using the radius.
If enough people understood enough of maths, and had the ability to apply it on demand, that this mistake wouldn't happen, lotteries would probably be way less popular than they are.
"If I tell you a map is 100m across..." Pretty sure I already explained that part only one post earlier. Now, if I then grab the diameter, it's two totems to cross the map from side to side. Keeping to this rough estimate, if we then assume the map is square and use the diameter as the length of a square, we can estimate that four totems will give you most of the map covered--nearly 100% by the estimate.
And if we then use actual calculations, it's 10,000m^2 and 1809m^2, so those four totems actually cover ~72% of the map. Not bad for an estimate that required no actual specifics. Then compare with the size given for e.g. wreckers just now, and all the numbers line up pretty well.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645399#Comment_2645399
"Better coverage estimation?"
That's called the area. You determine the area using the radius.
"If I tell you a map is 100m across, and the radius is 24m, then you might mistakenly think 100/24 ~= 4, so 4 totems needed to cross a map."
If you tell me a map is 100 meters across, that doesn't tell me anything unless the map is a perfect square. I'd need to know the area of the map and then divide that by the area of a boon totem's influence (which, again, uses radius) to figure out roughly the minimum number of Boon totems are needed to cover the whole map.
The only way someone makes the mistake you are alleging is if they are confusing radius with diameter, which is on them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645433#Comment_2645433
That's not how area works at all. By using the radius to figure out the area, you are indeed looking at the whole circle.
It's on them, but it's not like it's an uncommon mistake; basic geometric knowledge isn't floating around the back of everyone's mind, and I'm sure some people are just using radius=range in their head.
As for the 100m not telling you anything, I mean, it does: it tells you how many totems you need to bridge it from one side to the other.
When we're doing quick and dirty estimates rather than exact calculations, mixing radius with lengths is asking for issues. If we're doing rigorous calculations, then we're not the people who need the reminder how radius and diameter are different. Also,
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645345#Comment_2645345
"The formula for area involves the radius (that is how one describes a circle), but that doesn't mean that thinking about the perk in terms of its radius is a good one for balance."
This doesn't make sense. If figuring out the area a Boon perk covers flat-out invovles the radius, then what makes the diameter more useful for perk balance? What does the diameter demonstrate that the radius doesn't? Not area. Not range of influence. So then what?
Better coverage estimation?
If I tell you a map is 100m across, and the radius is 24m, then you might mistakenly think 100/24 ~= 4, so 4 totems needed to cross a map. But diameter is more useful there (you can fit two boon totems across the map). And then if you square it for area, you're off by a factor of 4 (thinking it'd take 16 boon totems to get majority map coverage, not 4).
Of course, this all relies on people's mental models being faulty, but if we're comparing with square maps, it's perhaps easier to rough it out as squares of length diameter rather than circles.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645312#Comment_2645312
Going by the perk description:
"Soft chimes ring out in a 24 meter range."
"how much of the map can/cannot be blanketed at once"
As far as I'm aware, the mathematical formula to determine that answer involves the radius, not the diameter.
And I'm telling you, it's not audible for 24m. It doesn't really matter what the description says there.
The formula for area involves the radius (that is how one describes a circle), but that doesn't mean that thinking about the perk in terms of its radius is a good one for balance.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645206#Comment_2645206
Whats wrong with BBQ? Does it give out free hits, reduce a chase significantly or something like that?
It gives more BP for doing exactly what survivors keep asking for, which is "don't tunnel". Can't be having that; got to not tunnel and not get BP. :p
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645257#Comment_2645257
Strongly disagree. A range of 24 meters is exactly what it says on the tin. To a Survivor, it does not matter that the diameter is 48 meters because they have to be standing within 24 meters to get anything. To a Killer, it does not matter that the diameter is 48 meters bexause they have to be standing within 24 meters to hear the Boon Totem, and they know that a Survivor has to be standing within 24 meters to get anything. If you have two points of interest, you don't care about the diameter; you just care about the distance between them. Drawing a circular shape between you and those points of interest doesn't accomplish anything.
Also:
"the relevant measure is the area of the map this takes up. So a diameter would be a more suitable measurement."
The formula for the area of a circle is "pi times radius squared." You only need to know the radius of the circle to know the area, not the diameter. So I would argue that diameter is the less suitable measurement.
Pretty sure that killers don't hear boon totems within 24m; you need to be almost on top of the boon before it's going to be audible.
And when talking about how strong/weak boons are, the direct radius is only a proxy for relevant feature--map coverage. Basic range is more important for instantaneous effects: how far away before it does/doesn't activate. For boons, the question is: how much of the map can/cannot be blanketed at once?
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@WesCravenFan said:
The main problem with balance is a huge, gigantic, stadium sized difference in Survivor skill.
At low skill levels Survivors are so bad they last about ten seconds in chase.
At high skill levels Survivors can easily last a minute or more.
A two minute chase, or a combination of two minute chases can easily get 3 generators done. This causes a huge amount of pressure on the killer that cannot be every place at once. You just can't stop the last two from popping if they are scattered enough. Whereas at the low skill level survivors are in a constant state of recovery as someone is on the hook 24/7 and the are running at 50% capacity to do gens as one is on the hook and the last is trying to save them.
Anytime you change something in the game either either cripple the low skill players even more and barely annoy the high end SWFs, or you you give the low skill players a minor edge and the SWFs an overwhelming advantage. It is impossible to balance right now.
On that front, where does the breakpoint lie, though? The current state of the game seems to lean towards a low skill threshold to achieve success, just between the size of the maps, the overarching gen time dictating how long everything else can take, and the number of low-mobility killers.
There just appears to be a near-suicidal altruistic attempt at 4-man escapes maintaining any semblance of sanity.
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I mean, let's look at what optimal survivor perks do, vs what optimal killer perks do.
Survivor meta is mostly about second chances, faster healing, and situational invulnerability from damage.
Killer meta is either snowballing so hard nothing else matters or running slowdown perks.
If survivor perks are based around trying to negate snowball tactics, and half of the killer perks are based around trying to slow the game down enough snowballing isn't needed, then that would suggest the fundamental balance issue is that generators finish so quickly there isn't time for anything else to happen or be enjoyed.
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I mean, then you nerf gen regression perks. I'd think that would be an obvious step if you changed the basic way gen regression functions.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2644768#Comment_2644768
Wait what's happened to Oni?
The game I most associate with anyone saying shameful display is Shogun II Total War.
"Our men are running from the battlefield! Shameful display!" Which, due to accent, would explain the above "Shamefur dispray".
i.e. a game about samurai fighting. Oni.
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@scubasyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2644778#Comment_2644778
Darn 🤷🏻♀️ Can’t edit
There should be a little gear wheel/settings icon. Inexplicably, that is what you need to click to see the edit option.
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Been playing Oni?
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2644656#Comment_2644656
It is not a bad map. It's just a unique map for DBD. If I can do well on it others can to. And no that's not to toot my own horn. I'm just saying it can be played on just fine once learned.
"I can do well on it" does not mean that it's not bad. There are people who do well on Haddonfield, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exhibit a lot of things that make it badly designed and balanced. I'm sure there's people who do well on Red Forest with low mobility killers, but that doesn't make it better or reduce the problems that come with having so much size.
It's bad because it's huge (because of its layout, it takes as long to walk across as Red Forest and that's only one floor), multi-level, tightly-enclosed with lots of walls, full of strong loops, and has completely random pallets. The reasons RCPD is bad don't go away if you can do well on it, nor the parts that make it particularly imbalanced with killers who find half their abilities negated by the constant walls (and then don't have the mobility to get across this thing).
And boon totems right now just make anything with two floors like that particularly obnoxious.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2644377#Comment_2644377
It's 1 map. It's for RE people. Ya know, because it's an RE collaboration?
It's 1 map. For everyone. Because it's in the game.
Why does "it makes RE people slightly happier because of its fidelity" mean everyone gets a bad map?