RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@bobateo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719473#Comment_2719473
Not quite - you only would need to control for variables to that degree if you are attempting to look at very specific questions. I.E. "Is basement Bubba more effective on x map or y map", "which survivor load out can combat camping if [Killer] is running [these perks]". What these two are looking at is "is camping as weak as people say". The only variable that might need some control at that point is: is the Killer pool represented over a breadth of games. By Killer pool, I mean powers and possibly speed. There's probably little reason to test both Hag and Trapper for example. Their powers are very similar and would probably be applied in a similar manner for camping. (Hi basement!) And even that's iffy because any Killer can be used to camp, certain perk loadouts will be better for certain Killers, and survivor load outs can range from all over the place to pure meta builds.
None of that really matters at this point because the argument for camping isn't [on this map], [with these perks], and/or [against this Killer] camping is weak. It's that camping in general, even against Bubba, is weak if survivors play "efficiently". So, testing Bubba is completely valid.
Ideally, 50 players would come together, split up all the killers, record their results on K/E and gens with possibly some other easily recorded data - Killer perks and maps. At that point, trends (if any exist) can then be seen and tested. But I doubt anyone wants to dive that deep.
You'd also want to record Survivor perks, is the thing.
And have an agreed-upon procedure for camping. Are we facecamping? Proxy camping? Try and fake people into thinking you've left the hook? Or are you just standing there being Bubba, waiting?
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719558#Comment_2719558
Honestly those suggestions, for the most part, was my sarcasm, because quite often you'll see people listing similar suggestions on the other end of things. That said, listening and watching for blood trails(they're quite obvious) is a pretty obvious tell there's a survivor around if you hear or see any of those things. I don't think I've ever lost a survivor to the point of them bleeding out on the ground. There was one survivor I let bleed out on the ground and it was because they interrupted my Feral Frenzy intentionally to screw me over after I hooked them, trying to force a DS pick up and their team was on comms coordinating stuff. I never suggested a punishment of BP loss, but I feel like if the killer is in the vicinity of a survivor in the dying state for more than 30 seconds something should happen to deter that behavior. Maybe something funny but also a deterrant like firecrackers going off all around them. Survivors have crows that are basically aura reading if they're still for too long. I don't see a problem with a similar approach to killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719560#Comment_2719560
The game's objective for the killer is 12 hooks. If the killer is camping or tunneling their goal is one. Also this is much different from NORMAL gameplay where survivors can actually play the game. Only one person is having fun in this scenario. Rather selfish don't you think? Also I don't see how being stuck on the hook for 2 minutes is even remotely close to being tbagged or flashlight clicked at. Sure, it's annoying but at best they're only letting you close the distance and wasting time. Camping is pretty much the same as if you were in a shooter, all players spawned at the same spot they did every time, and your opponent was standing at your spawn point shooting you in the head over and over until the game ended. It's griefing plain and simple. People don't go into a match expecting to be unable to do anything for the majority of it, and there will always be at least one hook per game, meaning the potential for that is always there. Slugging is just a worse version of it because it takes 4 minutes instead of 2.
I had someone crawl away in Hawkin's before that went away. Can't remember if there was any other time it's happened, but that stuck out because you'd think it would be easy to find someone in that place...
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719446#Comment_2719446
If you had Deerstalker, Bloodhound, Whispers, Spies from the Shadows even(I think), or a better headset, perhaps you could do something about that. Also if that WERE to happen, who caused that situation to happen? The survivors didn't put themselves in the dying state and leave themselves on the ground. Also yes, I already suspect you to suggest to bring the new Boon or Unbreakable or No Mither into the situation, but in those cases, they can still be prevented by the killer standing over them to make sure that they're put right back on the ground. There are however no perks that mute survivor sounds on the ground, and if they're not bringing No Mither they still leave trails of blood(and can get up themselves if they are). Either way, any of these scenarios are only brought about by one person, and that is the killer. If you left them on the ground long enough to hide so far away from their original position you'll never find them, then that is kind of your fault.
Yes, there's things the Killer could do for the sole and only purpose of trying to make the person who crawled into a corner easier to find. Things that are a complete waste of a perk slot for an edge case that happens occasionally.
I have no idea why that somehow means that there should be a punishment for when it happens. You already get less BP (and have to wait for the game to end), so there's plenty of incentive to find the person if you can.
The simple point I was making is that not everyone that bleeds out is bleeding out because the Killer wants to waste their time, and is often brought about because they crawled off into some hard-to-find corner after the Killer spotted the other remaining Survivor before hooking. They're quite capable of crawling back somewhere visible and it's not just one person's choice.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719375#Comment_2719375
To be fair the killer can actually do something about this.
Not when the Survivor crawls off to god knows where at the end of the game and I spend five minutes trying to find you.
Which is the other scenario. So, no extra punishment needed.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
My opinion of the statistics fight is If you don't have at least a bachelor's in statistics, then I don't really care that much about your laymen understanding of the field. And that goes to the devs trying to justify bad balance with "THE STATS." You don't have business interpreting statistics without some actual education and knowledge of the field. More harm than good has been caused by inexperienced people reading statistics without understanding the in's and outs, and jumping to rash conclusions as a result.
I don't think you need an entire degree in statistics in order to have some understanding of the field, or we'd have to discount basically all science because most scientists got degrees in other fields. Though a lot of people still have bad understanding of stats anyway.
But I'd settle for good experimental design/data collection if we're going to try and examine effectiveness.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718937#Comment_2718937
It can be disabled after 5 gens are completed, Killers do need the ability to camp at that point.
I think the Developers already have code in Pyramid Head's cages to adjust for distance from other survivors as well as from the Killer, because when I've seen the cages used, I always see them far away from survivors as well as Killers. It's rare that the cages appear right next to survivors that I've noticed. But is that any different than when another survivor is close by and is able to unhook someone after the Killer walks away? It's not game breaking, obviously, since Killers still use Pyramid Head and still use his cages.
I mean, it's pretty different, because you've done the same thing that implicitly makes gens so problematic: the safest way to play becomes the most efficient way to play at the same time. For example, splitting up on gens means you can't all be pressured off them at once, but this is also the fastest way to complete them.
Currently, the most efficient way to unhook someone is the most dangerous--you have to get close to the Killer and avoid being detected until they've left the area. If you want a safe unhook then that might be even more waiting. If you change it so that Survivors are teleported to the other end of the map, the safest thing to do--get the hell away from the Killer--also becomes the most efficient way to get the unhook.
To try and take away one thing Killers can do, you make the game way easier for the Survivors and take away any defensive measures they have. The most likely outcome is persistent slugging, tbh.
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And also, what even becomes the point of the basement in such a scenario?
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718856#Comment_2718856
I have seen this posted before and dismissed it at first, but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. The idea is already in use and there isn't issues with it, so I would say push it out.
Maybe just have the survivor teleported to random hook on the opposite side of the map when they are hooked. It's already been used with Pyramidhead cages without issues, why not just add it to hooks also. The developers already have the code in the game, just make a random hook appear, then disappear after an unhook just like a Pyramidhead cage.
Killers aren't punished and survivors can't be effectively facecamped.
No, Killers are punished if you do that. Generally, "far away from the Killer after they downed someone" is right next to a Survivor. It's hilarious to watch PH cages pop like 5s after you've even finished the animation. So, you can't maintain any pressure because a Survivor is temporarily removed from action, you can't apply pressure by chasing another Survivor and forcing one of the others to go for a save (because they don't even need to get off gens for 20s to do it), there's no chance to intercept someone moving in for a save and start another chase (or again force a third Survivor to do something about it) because now the Survivors are all closer to the hook than you are etc.
That would completely destroy the game balance.
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Your numbers are still useless because you're withholding or not recording information (enemy perks; grades--as irrelevant as they are, we could probably draw conclusions throughout a month on those; queue times; your grades; actual gameplay footage). This pseudo-scientific approach where you're setting out to prove a point and choosing what information you record is inherently aggravating. It's no better than anecdotes!
Ideally, if we want to be scientific, we need multiple players as some sort of vaguely representative sample, not self-selecting and with variable perk loadouts, who record their entire gameplay from start to finish (not necessarily at HD, but hopefully enough perks can be identified) and discarded if there's any cuts. Then we can actually use proper analysis rather than just "look at the trends in the numbers I've written down". Not-science masquerading as science is simply distasteful.
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The number of people apparently damaging things with this is somewhat concerning. Controllers and keyboards are both made to be pretty resilient, how violent are you being with them...?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717857#Comment_2717857
I think there's a similar problem shared between survivors and killers in that the most effective strategy is the one with the least interaction possible.
For killers, this is in tunnelling and camping. But an under-recognised problem with generators is the co-op penalty. -15% repair speed per other survivor on the same gen accomplishes something it really shouldn't: It makes the safest way to do gens the fastest one.
A killer can only pressure one gen at a time, so having all survivors split up on separate gens makes their job significantly harder. But that is just flat-out the best way because it rewards the most progress per second for survivors.
The co-op penalty needs to be changed from -15% per survivor to +15% if there's more than one survivor on a gen, in addition to changing base gen time from 80 to 110. That way, a pair working on a gen is, IIRC, .3 seconds slower than under the current circumstances. This creates a dynamic choice for survivors: Do we spread out and take it slow, but safe, or do we bundle up and risk the killer disrupting us really badly if they find us?
This'd make pressuring gens much more manageable and would make downing and hooking a survivor put a bigger dent in survivor progress. There would need to be some other adjustments, of course, notably Prove Thyself and Discordance, but I think it's an overall workable solution to give killers more breathing room.
See, that's more of an anti-camping effect than actual proposed camping changes! It doesn't solve the facecamping Bubba, but it removes the incentive for almost everything else to facecamp.
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The only non pink/purple addons he had that were worth a damn got nerfed into the ground (and the only ones that actually helped with the box... which as everyone worked out, is where most of his pressure came from). And the chains are comically unreliable due to being broken by the environment, spawning through the environment, being broken by Pinhead... on top of the aiming. So, pretty close to unplayable unless you're there for the masochism of having your power waste more of your time than the other person's even when you hit, or being used against you.
At least he can mess with console players' due to control mapping. What a bonus.
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@Raccoon said:
Seems like a healthy way to keep one of the most popular games on Steam alive, for sure.
I'm also amused at these 'gen-rush' and 'camping' experiments that just perpetuate the very behavior people hate seeing.
I know it is anecdotal, but I don't really see enough hard-camping/gen-rushing for it to even register on my care-o-meter.
The game will only be good once everyone has no choice but to play how the complaints want or quit, obviously. (Is the sarcasm obvious enough?)
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717005#Comment_2717005
Okay, first: Just because I say it can be done, doesn't immediately mean that I need to have the solution. If you see a rocket lift-off and then explode, you can easily say that it can be done without exploding without being expected to have the answer ready. My point is that the attitude of 'can't be done' shuts down discussion when we could come to a useful solution. But forum killers don't -want- a solution, so they just stick their heads in the sand and parrot the same dumb line: "It can't be done"
Secondly: What free perk slot? Unsafe unhooks would still be unsafe unhooks.
Thirdly:
Gen repair speeds are increased if, 20 seconds after hooking, the killer is within X radius of a hooked survivor. This buff is increased further for every remaining gen and every survivor actively working on a gen. This buff is decreased by survivors' proximity to a hooked survivor or the killer. This buff is disabled while the killer is in a chase, or if there's one or no gens left to be repaired.
Now it's your turn to pick it apart and we can figure out if we can patch it up to fix the problems you find.
Free perk slot by moving BT into basekit, and unsafe hooks would be much less unsafe on the whole as the worst you'd get would generally be the trade.
Also, same problem as every other radius-based thing: too low, you're still going to camp. Too high, just looking around or passing by will now buff the other side. And then you have hooks or hook entrances where you might have good line of sight so it doesn't matter. It's inherent to all attempts to stop camping by applying penalties, which is why they're doomed to failure.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716999#Comment_2716999
How do you know that it's impossible to make an anti-camping measure that doesn't affect non-campers? If anti-camping measures are such a big problem, why's camaraderie one of the least-picked perks in the game?
This whole shtick of 'You can't work anti-camp' is just an excuse to keep camping in. I can agree with 'it's hard to come up with something for that' but I absolutely can't agree with this short-sighted attitude of 'it's impossible'.
Okay, then propose an anti-camping measure that does not, with the rest of the game as it is, somehow loop back to "Survivor runs towards hook during a chase and the Killer gets punished for it".
The only remotely close thing I've seen is "BT is basekit but unhooked Survivors lose collision", but that mostly just makes trades instead. And you'd still need to do something to make up for the sudden free perkslot that also means unsafe unhooks are now only moderately unsafe.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716956#Comment_2716956
Camping isn't the 'intended gameplay'. The devs themselves have stated this, but they just haven't found an anti-camping solution yet. You can keep giving ideas on rewarding killers for -not camping-, but that's not going to change things if camping can easily net you a no effort 2K against most survivor teams you'll face.
Camping needs to not be remotely viable before it can really start to die out.
And there is no way to functionally achieve that which does not turn the meta into 100% slugging because hooked Survivors become godlike safety beacons.
So, you do something else. Which is "make not camping more appealing".
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Well it's not nothing but i do agree that it isn't as big of a deal as a lot of people think it is.
DbD is a game of scales in essence
At the start of the game all weights are on the survivor side, every gen that gets done and reduces the patrol route of the killer, every pallet broken, every injure, every hook the scales start slowly tipping towards the killer and once they reach a certain point it's really hard for the survivors to pull it back. It's all about momentum. So while i don't think it's nothing if 2-3 gens pop on first chase. There is truth that the first gens are a lot easier to do and thus don't matter as much as the later ones.
Saying that if survivors did 2/5 of their objectives vs the killers 1/12 if they lost 2 gens by their first hook is a bit misleading as the killer objectives become easier the longer the games go on and vica versa for survivors.
Well, apart from the bit where if the survivors, by design or happenstance, do all the gens centrally located it doesn't really change the scales at all because the patrol route doesn't effectively shorten. Map design and spawns rear their head again.
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I just bought normal, good headphones. Unless it's some very specific internal hardware, slapping "gaming" on things is just a way to get extra money.
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Even I think you're being hyperbolic here. Obviously ignoring that BBQ's information isn't the main reason to run it, at least it feeds you information when you would like to know information--if nothing else, it will cheerfully inform you (assuming people aren't diving into fortuitous lockers) if everybody is squatting on gens far away or if someone's closer, and sometimes who's going to come for the rescue from where. And you've just hooked someone, so now is the ideal time to go looking.
Same for Pain Resonance, which does the handy job of telling you where to go when you've got the hook, assuming you want to go to the most complete gen. And maybe with bonus screams. Which also makes it Pop's natural partner, because there's a fairly reasonable chance that you can then get over to this not-finished gen and boot it some more.
FFS, you're basically running two and a half info perks anyway (corrupt being the half); they're just (like Pain Resonance or BBQ) multi-function ones.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
@Munqaxus lays out the scientific method step-by-step to shed some light on a hot topic in the community. How on earth do any of you take yourself seriously whilst responding with nothing but anecdotal evidence?
Anyway, here are my own numbers--I added Trial Time in my stats as I figured it'd be pretty telling of what went down.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HKWYOMORFPI6/image.png
I just prestiged Bubba, so I didn't have all the perks I wanted. I definitely could have performed better with the right perks.
Takeaways:
- Monsterous Shrine does not work and/or is effectively useless. 4 of 6 survivors who tried to unhooked themselves in the basement succeeded, despite the fact that Monstrous Shrine is supposed to increase the difficulty of escape attempts by 15% (mathematically thats either a .6% or .006% debuff, depending on how its calculated). No luck offerings were burned. Survivors also still had 3 unhook attempts, even after waiting a few seconds to try escaping, despite the 9% increased penalty on escape fails.
- Insidious is unreliable on Bubba. I think it just comes with the turf, but only 1 out of 40 survivors fell into my Insidious trap. People weren't running Kindred, so I'm lead to believe people play it safe when they hear a chainsaw then no terror radius after first hook.
- People hand you free wins. I had a d/c very early in each of my first 2 games, then 3 survivors d/c'd in near unison after I camped first hook on Torment Creek. Multiple games I had survivors kill themself on first hook immediately.
- No Way Out hands you free kills. All of my 2ks and my 3k would have come up 1 kill short had I not run No Way Out. The exit gate delay bought me just enough time to watch the 2nd survivor die on hook then find a final survivor to chase.
- Camping is unsatisfying. Regardless of its viability, face-camping for 10 straight games is a dull affair. I don't recommend it.
Perks That Would Have Increased My Kill Count (Instead of monsterous Shrine, Insidious & Iron Maiden)
- Brutal Strength, Enduring & Spirit Fury Game 6 & 7 were my weakest performances, because both first chases were drawn out a little too long for camping to apply any real pressure.
- Corrupt Intervetion, Deadlock, & Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance Slowing the speed at which gens were able to be completed would have undoubtedly netted me an extra kill in game 4, 7, & 9.
- Agitation, Iron Grasp, & Starstruck Game 4 & 6 both saw survivors successfully unhooked in my face with BT, followed by effective hook bombing & body blocking. A survivor wiggled off my shoulder in trial 4 & 7 as well, due to misjudgement of the distance of basement.
In Conclusion,
At least 25% of survivors will give up and kill themself on hook or disconnect from the trial. Survivors take an average of 8m 54s to finish all 5 gens against a face-camping killer; therefore, you need to catch your first survivor within 2 minutes to secure a 2k. Camping is boring but it works.
Weird conclusion to say that No Way Out hands out free kills. By definition, the cost of those kills is No Way Out and having the hooks to lock the doors for the time needed.
And not to get too pedantic, but collecting only the values you think are relevant is also a pretty poor example of the scientific method. Or even data collection as a whole. Plus personal variables (and many things we can't control for like MMR). Let's not cast stones about data quality when there's not much better. Maybe if we could arrange some sort of multiperson approach to data gathering and not explicitly set out only gathering seemingly relevant data... xD
And its Monstrous. Monstrous Shrine.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716769#Comment_2716769
Not keen on leaving a loaded gun in either party's hands when discussing disarming the other party.
Gens go this fast because camping's a thing. Slowing it down would just make camping stronger.
It needs to be kneecapped. No other way is going to solve the problem.
No punishment will really stop it except "Survivors will always get a safe unhook even if you chase them back to the hook", which is a terrible design spot to aim for--you might as well not have hooks at that point. You might as well say "each killer does two stupid dances over a Survivor before you mori".
Or you could make automatic regression basekit, maybe fiddle with anti-tunnelling, so moving around to force people off gens and letting someone go for the unhook is always worth it. And not "if you don't know where someone is or can't catch them in a chase, sitting tight is your best option".
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716722#Comment_2716722
Because camping and tunneling give them kills they don’t deserve, same as noed, and they rank up and they feel they’re semigods, and finally they play with survs better than them and they come here crying 24/7
"Undeserved"? How can a kill be "undeserved"? You downed a survivor and kept them on hook until they died. The Survivor didn't just have a heart attack and die.
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... Spirit? Wraith? They also go fast.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297441/pinhead-tips-please
Sure. I still play a lot of Cenobite, and while he's a shadow of his former (somewhat mediocre) glory, he can still be pretty fun.
- He's very vulnerable to pallet heavy maps. However, there's a nasty little trick you can do - chain someone as they drop the pallet. Worst case scenario, it'll buy you time to catch up, best case they are playing on console and the prompt to break free is also the prompt to vault back towards you XD.
- Never forget that you can summon your chain portal through walls, floors and ceilings. This is where a lot of your crazy good plays will come from.
- Initially, summon your portal on top of the survivor you want to hit and aim at their feet. This not only has a better hitbox, but if you whiff it'll end the summon faster.
- Once you have a solid feel for it, aim your portal just ahead of them - this will allow you to chain them almost instantly.
- You don't slow down while summoning, so you can use this to bait jukes and make people do silly things.
- Learn to predict where the box will spawn - it will always spawn (after being picked up/start of game) as far from both you and survivors as possible. Some high level players run Lethal Pursuer to give them a good chance to find the box very early on.
- As he's an M1 killer, he works well with Surge and STBFL - especially if you are running Fang.
- Don't run Franklins on him for the purpose of knocking the box out of people's hands. This was quietly changed to be a much less effective strategy.
- You will break your own chains if you walk through them. Watch out.
- Despite what others have said, if you are confident - use your chains to catch up in the open. However, if you struggle to land them or if you are playing against people who are good at juking them, be careful.
- Original Pain, Greasy Black Lens and his two Iri addons are quite solid. Don't sleep on them.
- Chatterer's Tooth is an...odd addon. It's main benefit isn't the stealth - it's being able to instantly reveal all survivors on the map and potentially catch people running to it if a hunt is starting.
- Tooth is also a fantastic addon for farming BP.
- Plaything is a genuinely excellent perk, often underestimated. It'll provide you with tons of free pressure and works well with Pentimento (Artist perk).
- As his box provides a secondary objective, hexes are a solid choice on him - this can stress a survivor groups ability.
- Don't be scared to teleport to the box if it's far away and you aren't actively chasing someone.
- If you are close enough though, you can interrupt the box solving by hitting that survivor with a chain.
- Sometimes, if you know where the box is - don't pick it up yet, especially if a hunt will start soon. Wait for someone to come looking for it and ambush them, then pick it up.
- Sometimes survivors can solve the box without prompting a teleport. I don't know how this happens or how to prevent it.
- My build for him goes: Surge/Jolt+Pain Resonance+Plaything+Pentimento. You can replace Surge with STBFL (for more of a battle build) or BBQ for more BP. Some people really like Ruin on him.
- Watch some of Otzdarva's Pinhead videos. He plays him at a level I can't even fathom.
Downside of aiming the portal ahead of them is if they juke on seeing what you're doing, you will miss horribly. Also, you might fire too early.
My advice is to try and memorise all the completely random bloody delays he has. Delay before firing the chain! Delay after firing the chain! FOV changes! No immediately breaking pallets or vaulting after it! Very excessive.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716627#Comment_2716627
If you want to get pedantic for a moment, escaping through hatch has a specific scoring event called Hatch Escape.
It's a separate method of escape. I don't understand where people are getting this notion that hatch is some sort of weird not a kill but also not an escape thing.
It's the MMR comment mentioned.
Essentially, a hatch escape doesn't tell you anything about the balance of a match or tactic because it's just "who is closer to this point". We shouldn't note them as a kill, but we shouldn't lump them in with other escapes either when trying to evaluate... anything.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716517#Comment_2716517
There is no semantic argument here
You did not kill them and the entity didn't do the dirty work for you as a result of ECG.
If the survivor went down the rabbit hole, they escaped the trial. You can't have it both ways where the final survivor simultaneously escapes and somehow still counts towards the data in favor of Killers.
It shouldn't count as a kill, but it also should either count as an escape for all balance-related purposes or none. Hatches are just their own thing.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716508#Comment_2716508
Survivor plays like most third person games (ie. Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare, RE2make/RE3make, Ni No Kuni, etc)- your movement inputs are directly related to your exact camera position.
You hold S while looking behind you and you'll move in the same direction as holding W while looking ahead of you. You have your camera angled wrong, you'll collide with a wall. That sort of stuff.
Not to knock OP's points or anything- I agree with most of them- but yeah that's how survivor movement works
Yeah, so same as ever. Definitely movement that's easier controlled with a controller, I wouldn't argue with that part, since analogue inputs are way better if your camera's all over the place, but nothing out of the ordinary.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/301826/are-killers-actually-punished-for-camping
So, a few things:
This sample size is not adequate to actually prove anything in relation to either the number of actual players or circumstances even broken down into the length of a one session per day. You won't generate enough data points to show a proper trend or extrapolate an average in a meaningful way until you played many sessions.
Counting hatch escapes as kills under any condition is faulty test logic as that is an escape. You can not under any circumstance alter the meaning of a basic function just to suit your end result in research. That is an issue with a lot of people trying to generate data points for this game, making up rules to suit their taste rather than letting things be what they actual are and counting them as such.
DBD has a high variance of skill levels and game understanding that is difficult to account for. If you don't generate the data points necessary to at the least catalogue the relative "rank" of the players then your data set could be skewed more towards players with less playtime and overall skill making bad decisions leading to kills.
It's very irksome to constantly see people run their own "tests" even at a level that is considered high level to generate data, but they make up house rules that only serve to suit the outcome they want from the data or will just make for a poorly handled data set in general.
Objection! Hatch isn't really an escape either, it's just a coinflip on who's closer first (and even the devs worked that one out so it doesn't affect MMR).
So a hatch escape goes from 4K-0E to 3K-1N-0E.
If a Killer gets someone whilst the hatch is out, they'd (probably) have got them going for a normal escape; but a hatch escape doesn't mean you'd have activated the exit gates and got out.
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Curious if you have much experience with third person action-RPG stuff before trying Survivor, given the control complaints? Killers using modern FPS controls might just be familiarity speaking, there.
I think Survivor controls something like those, at least. My memory is hazy as it was only the tutorial. <_>
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@dictep said:
Dh is the only reason I have fun in this game. It’s the only unpredictable thing you can do as survivor
Ah yes, the thing nearly every Survivor has and will use like clockwork when you swing, or when you're so close the paranoia gets the better of them, or if there's any vault/pallet coming up. How unpredictable.
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You can't write character names and game terms half the time. It's baffling.
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"It's just BM it isn't toxic" is a completely meaningless statement. Bad manners for the sake of bad manners, done repeatedly, is toxic, otherwise it wouldn't be BM in the first place. Doing unpleasant and rude things to other people is basically the entire foundation of it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715661#Comment_2715661
Me, watching Otz get his ass kicked on a daily basis after literally PLAYING THE GAME AS A JOB for years.
Ah, but you see, if one of the best general killers can consistently win if he brings the optimal perk and add-on combos, everything is fine!
... I mean even if you steadily translate that down through MMR, it basically means "If you haven't gotten the right add-ons recently, you're just there to lose and farm BP".
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@espooked said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715076#Comment_2715076
Run whatever u want, can't sh!t on you for something that is allowed
Can and will.
Cheaters should be ostracised until BHVR gets its act together and stops pretending "this is fine" unless they're going to make everyone play with these 'advantages'. :/
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715446#Comment_2715446
"instead of telling anyone with a good pair of headphones exactly where she is"
The irony of that statement is palpable.
It does rather reduce her power to being mostly for chases. "I move fast and you can't see me" doesn't do all that much on the stealth department if you can hear her but she can only hear you if you do something. And then people run Iron Will, which negates it half the time anyway.
Somehow, she got put into a state where her stealth ability gives Survivors more info than she gets. What.
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@Tr1nity said:
I feel like BHVR overdoes it with the nerfs,
if they wanted to remove her 50/50 mind game they could have just made her husk emit the noise instead of telling anyone with a good pair of headphones exactly where she is.
If Killers have powers that hide their location that actually hide their location, that's apparently horribly unacceptable. Freddy changes, Wraith being technically visible...
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@RiskyKara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715306#Comment_2715306
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715341#Comment_2715341
That's the core difference though. You consider it cheating.
I don't.
I consider cheating things like using programs to change the way the game is designed to be played, speed hacks, wall hacks, things that give instant gen completion or unlimited bloodpoints. Those are things I consider cheating and frown upon. Incidentally, if stretched res were something that required any of those 3rd party programs to do, I would frown on it myself.
However because it's something that I can do within the limitations of the game, it's not cheating, and just becomes a personal choice. Literally anyone and everyone can do it and it would take seconds of your time.
In short. I hate cheaters. I don't consider stretched res cheating. Others might, and that's okay if they believe it is. But that's just a little window into another perspective if you don't mind too terribly.
Wall hacks and changing the way the game is designed to be played, huh? So messing with the resolution in a way that lets you see over walls that you shouldn't and disable powers when you shouldn't be able to see the Killer isn't either of those in your mind?
And you consider this fair play? Maybe if your name said in giant letters "I'M USING STRETCHED RES" so everyone could avoid it if they wanted.
The amount of cognitive dissonance here to declare yourself "not a cheater" is amazing. You're cheating, by every definition of the term except the comically narrow "BHVR, who has enough trouble banning people for actually hacking and a potato report system, hasn't told me not to".
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@oliviaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715413#Comment_2715413
when was the last time there was a constructive conversation held in this forum please lmao
"I don't remember a constructive conversation being held so I'm just going to go off and rant at people rather than try" is a waste of everyone's time.
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@Laluzi said:
Hm. It strikes me that there's barely anything in the iri rarity tier as it is. Bouquets are gone, splinters are gone, moris and keys are dead items. Survivors have Brand New Parts, Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringes, Odd Bulbs (which suck), and Skeleton Keys (which suck). Killers have Ebony Moris (which suck) and their two iri addons, which may or may not suck. The whole rarity system could use look at - for instance, any offering in the green rarity tier is way rarer than it's theoretically meant to be because green is so bloated with maps, so Sacrificial Wards, Bloody Party Streamers, Bound Envelopes, and less missed stuff like Moldy Oak and Black Salt Statuettes are far rarer than intended. And there's a disproportionate amount of useless stuff in the purple tier too - it's not just moris being clutter, you've also got Cut Coins and Murky Reagents and Shrouds of Binding and Vigo's Lips. I honestly avoid purple or iri mystery gifts because they're so likely to give me something I don't want.
I think making Sacrificial Wards purple and Bloody Party Streamers iridescent would increase the odds of these slots containing things that you want while also increasing the supply of desired items.
Moris themselves - I think they might be on their way out? They are definitely undeserving of their rarity and price tag now, but there's been dev talk of a new baked-in mechanic to handle moris and make them something the killer can earn over the course of the match, so that might see the offerings put out to pasture after their long downwards hobble. But if mori items are to remain a thing in the bloodweb, I think I'd rather see the current Ivory and Cypress moris nuked and the remaining Ebony mori to cover the functions of both Ebony and Cypress - can kill all 4, and can kill last survivor regardless of hook state. Moris barely have any functionality in their current state, just cosmetics and a few edge cases where they might do something, so I'd be fine with that item as a green or purple. Green if you're okay with rarely seeing them, which a lot of players would be; purple to toss a largely useless item into a category that has a lot of largely useless items for their steep price, and that rolls back to the original issues of moris not being worth the bloodpoints.
Making BPS Iri would just be super annoying when a killer has good addons.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
I'm pretty convinced that anybody who says she is bad now just doesn't own headphones.
Or how to mind game with the whoosh noises.
I keep trying to unphase literally on top of people. Not sure what that says about my headphones, they should be good ones (open-backed headphones are also definitely comfy).
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@Johnny_XMan said:
It’s the truth. You think DH is stronger than SB because you don’t ignore the DH user. You do the SB user.
I think it would be a remarkable achievement on most people's part to achieve anything whilst ignoring all of the Survivors in like half of trials, and laser-focusing the odd one out in the remainder.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715138#Comment_2715138
If only there was some relevant video, perhaps in this very topic, that answered this for them >_>
I have a habit of not clicking random grainy videos.
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@RiskyKara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715079#Comment_2715079
I'm honestly fine with using it regardless if I can justify it through the cruelness of my fellow players. Even if people were perfectly kind, I'd still be using it. It's just one extra layer of 'I don't owe anyone anything.'
And yes I'm not lying when I say that I think it looks aesthetically better. I'm already admitting I also like the advantage it gives, why would I later have to lie about liking how it looks on top of that? I don't have to hide that I like it for functionality purposes. I like that extra head room. 16:9 feels claustrophobic as heck, and I know this is a horror game but after so many hours you just don't feel fear anymore. The gameplay loop is all that matters.
The bare minimum you owe people in an online game is not being a selfish cheater who cheats. If winning is that important, go find a singleplayer game.
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@RiskyKara said:
I use stretch res. It genuinely makes the game look better and it makes it easier to play. Why wouldn't I use it? Because people say it's cheating? The same people that hate noed, dead hard, the meta and everything else? The same community that will mock me in post game chat for winning or losing when I'm on killer? The same community that imposes an unwritten etiquette just to bully new killers?
Yeah why would I spend two seconds limiting my enjoyment of the game because the most toxic community I've ever played with told me that I'm rude to do so.
Everything being a distorted aspect ratio looks better? Uhhuh, sure.
It's basically cheating regardless of how much you think people being jerke makes that fine. Because everyone not playing with a broken resolution has to suffer for YOUR need to have an uncounterable, invisible advantage.
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I'd say Plague. Plus she has more build options with her addons. And people do weird decisions.
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To play or what?
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@StarLost said:
Really?
I haven't used Ruin in months. The reason being - in about 1/3 of games it gets broken at 5 gens and in about another 1/3 people either just power through it or it gets cleansed shortly after.
I find Pain Resonance, Surge or even Plaything+Penti to be a lot more consistent, even if it's max power isn't quite as high.
I was having fun with Ruin+Resonance+Plaything the other day. Sure, Ruin might go immediately. Or I might down someone and let the sidequests begin.
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Ruin doesn't stop you from doing gens.
If you keep getting chased off the same gen and don't look for Ruin...
Well, I have to give the people who do that points for stubbornness. Or maybe they're just really attached to that gen.
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[BAD WORD]. It's really not a bicep flexing at us...
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@Crowman said:
Sprint Burst will be used more if DH gets nerfed and it will be annoying for killers, because it means that anytime you try to engage a survivor in a deadzone, they just run to safety.
Killers are already on a time crunch. Having to every chase take an extra 20-30 seconds to get the first hit is going to hurt a lot of killers. In fact Wraith will likely be unplayable without Mindbreaker (or whatever it is called now).
That's the real base state of things, though. M1 Killers are boned often, DH just obfuscates it by getting everyone DURING the chase.