RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340452#Comment_3340452
This only means you don't play against better survivors. Window techs can bring a lot of time. This confusion would just not happen if killer had FOV as big as they want.
Playing against oni in ability or blight requires you to hide mid-chase sometimes (at least if you are better survivor). This is one of the reason why sometimes especially best blights that have absolutely 0 health issues what-so-ever do bring this perk - even if they could bring say deadlock instead.
When we are talking about higher elo, killer's limited FOV is a big deal.
No, it's a tiny deal that barely ever comes into it. 95% of its usage throughout the game is 'be annoying' and an overconfident amount of trying to sneak through windows. The remaining 5% is the shocking revelation that Killers that move really fast in a straight line like having peripheral vision to aim. In the long list of things in the game that make an impact, FOV techs are way down near the bottom in frequency.
Is this enough of a reason to continue having Killer be an accessibility-unfriendly mess where daft solutions are proposed that aren't the one that nearly every modern game has of 'make an FOV slider'? Not really. Shuffling it off to a single perk with a fixed FOV adjustment is just clunkiness for the sake of an overrated gameplay mechanic.
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@legacycolt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340317#Comment_3340317
You just named 2 perks to counter spirit. Let’s be real, you don’t even know how to counter her and that’s why you love her and have her as a profile pic lol
I said how to counter her if you can't hear her. You know, the premise of this thread. Other counterplay relies on being able to tell where she is, as that aids in such things as doubling back at the right time to trick her when she comes out of phase, or knowing when the best time to slow vault is (or use DH, or even well-timed pallets).
But if you can't hear her for whatever reason, then your best options are to bring things that would make you hard to track after you get hit. Works for other Killers too, if you're good at breaking LoS, but it's what you'd want for Spirit.
Also, she's my avatar because anyone I'd rather use hasn't been added yet.
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Hah, get a second map in a realm? Like that's ever going to happen again. Can't do a ton of new art assets if you do that.
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Most FOV "techs" don't do anything, they're just really damn annoying to watch and it's blatantly clear what's going on when it involves no collision. And I don't get motion sick, I can only imagine how much worse following the Survivor is if you do.
Just let the damn FOV go up and see if it actually significantly changes anything (probably not).
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340410#Comment_3340410
Even then, DCB could be changed to be much more of an accessibility addon than just flat out nerfed. Keep it's ability to give killer instinct, but survivors make no/significantly reduced grunts of pain (also you can see scratch marks again). The really good players with cracked headsets won't need it, but for newer players or those who are hard of hearing/have terrible headsets it could be a very welcome addon.
The only thing that Spirit has that really needs to go, imo, is MDR. Everything else she has is fine, or can be slightly tweaked to make it fine, tbh.
If they fixed DCB so it actually shows Killer Instinct again, the full list of changes that her add-ons really need to fix inherent brokenness:
- MDR blocks Killer Instinct.
- Give Furin literally any other effect, considering they've just changed it to "people who can't hear your directional phasing get to know you're phasing too." How the devs thought you could ever make any use of this is beyond me. It's broken in the sense it does nothing you can use.
MDR without being able to pair it with DCB is strong, but it does get super reliant on being able to play with audio cues only.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340298#Comment_3340298
her addons definetly needs a nerf but not the basekit thats for sure...
Literally the only thing in her addons that needs a nerf is how MDR interacts with DCB.
That's it. Her addons are mediocre and underwhelming otherwise, especially because they nerfed one of the two gimmicks (Furin is now completely useless for any purpose) as a bug fix, leaving pallet breaking as the only other option.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
The problem with suggesting to bring perks such as lucky break for one encounter that you'll might get once in 30-40 games is a bad counter, a counter shouldn't rely on perks.
Sure, but something has to give if you're asking 'how do you counter the audio Killer without using audio'.
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@Gamall said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340298#Comment_3340298
Ok so what's your suggestion to how counter her?
Iron Will still isn't completely invalid as a counter. Lucky Break or something else to hide your scratch marks can confuse the other player for a second to make distance. Things like slow vaulting still work if you know Spirit is close.
But FFS, Spirit doesn't have anything in her base kit to nerf to account for 'I can't hear her for some reason'. She's still less than double base movement. If you add visual cues, you've just made her a kinda fast M1 Killer.
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@RaccoonInATrenchCoat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339421#Comment_3339421
or just undo the nerf to decisive. Some of y'all either werent around for ds, or forgot about it, and I think one good patch with old Decisive will stop tunneling for a while lol
Because DS was a perfect tunnelling counter before. /s
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@legacycolt said:
There’s not much you can do against spirit. Try to not get injured at all cost and if you’re injured, camp pallets if she’s phasing towards you. If you have no headset/ bad ears you don’t have a chance.
Spirit needs a nerf imo
Nerfing her is the least reasonable response.
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If only I wasn't going to be getting more offerings next year...
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339838#Comment_3339838
Just want to point out the wiki is not official. A lot of it is stuff that has been data mined, and every so often you’ll find completely inaccurate things on it
It's officially recognised and supported, though. Big things like intended perk effects are generally going to be accurate.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339835#Comment_3339835
That's not what the description says.
It's what the wiki writeup says, and given that the information in the wiki is official, if it's not, then the perk isn't working as it's supposed to.
What the description says is ambiguously written, but in light of said wiki text, I take it that the 'once per hook instance' limitation is meant to apply to the user, not the recipient.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339828#Comment_3339828
But it's not just hook instance that's getting tracked. It's also forcing mutual exclusivity between perks of multiple survivors.
What...? Reassurance isn't mutually exclusive; multiple people can use it on one Survivor.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339815#Comment_3339815
it's not a new conditional
What other game function uses this?
Well, if it's checking something the game already tracks for some reason, it's not any more difficult to check than a condition already used by another perk.
So, when the Survivor's hooked, it could enable the reassurance usage.
The condition it's checking on (Survivor being hooked again) doesn't introduce anything new that needs to be specially tracked. Which makes it no more work to implement than any other change.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339777#Comment_3339777
I think people aren't thinking this through.
If they really -only- wanted to address the 'perma-hook' issue, why add the 'once per hook instance, per survivor' stipulation? That's a new conditional that didn't exist yet in the game, so it's not some numerical adjustment, which would've worked, nor is it a pre-existing condition that could be copy-pasted from another perk.
Why put in -extra- work to make a -less- tailored solution?
Have you ever spoken to a developer in general, not just BHVR's ones?
Overcomplicating the solution by going with the first thing that comes to mind is a really recurring problem. xD
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339753#Comment_3339753
You're picking up the wrong razor, I'm using that one.
I don't think you're removing the possibility that requires the fewest additional assumptions.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339756#Comment_3339756
Thats the issue, there are simply too many survivors want to play, and after a while the MMR search is so wide, that you will be forced to play against a killer, because the system wont let you wait too much for a game.
It was adjusted for the reason to keep games going fast, even if the game you get are extremely unbalanced towards killer
You do realise that this works both ways and regardless of incentive though, right? Good survivors who've been waiting too long can be matched against bad Killers; Killers who've been waiting too long when there's a Survivor incentive can be matched against someone in the wrong place on the scale in either direction.
It's nothing to do with good Killer players all being on at one time and the bad ones not (that's when the bad players are mostly online too)
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More disappointing is that Terminus is still overridden by Adrenaline.
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I'm pretty sure that the majority of time there's a Killer incentive on EU is like, 6PM to midnight. i.e. there's plenty of people who're online to play Survivor (often with friends) before going to sleep. When there isn't, chances are you've only got insomniacs and people really into the game online.
It's not that there's a shortage of worse Killers on, it's just that they're finding games fast.
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@Krazzik said:
It sounds like using the addon previously caused an issue with the Spirit player's audio, and they fixed it.
This shouldn't effect the audio of the survivors since that's the entire point of the addon.
Somehow, it seems that the "issue" is that you wouldn't get a directional phasing sound if you started outside of Spirit's TR. You know, the only situation where the add-on had any worth whatsoever.
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You have to wonder what possible use the devs think "let people know that you're phasing AND not nearby" is supposed to be.
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Probably the option that makes it completely pointless to use, I imagine.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339511#Comment_3339511
i can't speak for everyone. but i do remember the lobby dodging issue. that would have been easy to fix. league of legends has a punishment system for lobby dodgers. 🤷🏻♂️
at this point we don't even need the lobby. just throw us into a match. why should i spend an additional 2 minutes waiting on people to ready up? that's a side effect of the old killer host system, but now we have a dedicated host and people that disconnect are (supposedly) punished for leaving. why should we sit through an additional loading screen and menu option? when you ready up it should lock your loadouts and your character. no more stream snipers and no more last second item swaps
A couple of Killer perks would get totally killed in the process (Lightborn in particular), which would be a problem.
Anyway, they're not going to remove SWF; we have to move forward and not keep looking back to the game's release premise.
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@zarr said:
I think the major reasons tunnelling is more widespread now than it had been in the past are the Decisive Strike nerf as well as simply a much grown awareness of tunnelling being the most effective killing strategy.
The Barbecue "nerf" has certainly had a negative impact on the game, giving killers less incentive to leave the hook or spread out hooks early, but I also don't believe it's had a huge impact. And particularly not on tunnelling, because as tunnelling has always been the best way to get a 4k, the desire to hook every survivor at least once is of course not a deterrent against tunnelling.
I also don't believe camping has gotten significantly less effective, let alone to a point where it has made tunnelling more attractive. Camping is in fact also more common than before, again mostly because of a rise in awareness of it being one of the most effective killing strategies. Usually camping and tunnelling actually go hand in hand. The idea that Reassurance would have made camping tangibly less impactful is honestly pretty silly. Not only does the perk not see ubiquitous use whatsoever, but it's regularly not even all that impactful against camping, for that you pretty much need multiple Reassurances and a team on voice comms coordinating its use, i. e. something you basically never see. Unhook endurance actually makes tunnelling more difficult than before, not camping, so it would support the opposite conclusion.
I don't see how "nice guy" builds have gotten any worse. BBQ wasn't actually nerfed, it just doesn't give extra BP anymore. Weasel isn't any more of a "nice guy" perk than, say, Call Of Brine, and Nowhere To Hide actually does encourage leaving hooks and seeking out survivors just like BBQ used to. Otz doesn't really explain why he thinks perks like Make Your Choice (which was never particularly popular at all to begin with?) have now totally fallen out of favour and would be less viable. No Way Out also still is just as viable. And while NOED did get nerfed, now we have Terminus, another actually rather potent endgame perk. This entire argument doesn't make much sense to me. Although I would agree that "hit and run" playstyles have gotten to be less effective with the advent of Circle Of Healing as well as a rise in med-kit usage.
Gen speed really hasn't gotten more problematic. Gen times have been increased, Brine, Eruption, Pain Resonance, Corrupt, Deadlock, Pentimento are slowdown perks that can hang with the best there's ever been, toolboxes have been nerfed substantially, and the only survivor perk that actually speeds up gens significantly is Hyperfocus, and not only do you need Stake Out alongside it in order for it to actually be good, but you of course also have to consistently hit increasingly difficult great skill checks, something even veterans struggle to do. I barely see people use the perk and when they do they often don't even get a lot of value out of it, especially considering that it makes them miss skill checks more often, something that can actually more than nullify any and all of its potential gen time reduction.
Decisive Strike used to be a great deterrent against tunnelling because the 5-second stun actually allowed the survivor to make so much distance that they could waste too much of the killer's time for it to be an efficient strategy anymore (including the possibility of losing the killer altogether). Now there is no reason to fear DS anymore. Don't get me wrong, it is still a decent perk, certainly much better than people make it out to be, but all it does is give the survivor another chance at an immediate chase, without any favourable distance, let alone the opportunity to make the killer lose track. So worst case scenario for the killer is they have to outplay the survivor at a tile again, they don't have to invest any time catching up to or looking for them. As long as you know you aren't dealing with a really good survivor, DS is a mild inconvenience at worst and doesn't do much to lessen the incredible efficiency of tunnelling someone out. Another issue is that people simply aren't using DS nearly as often anymore to begin with, partially because it's much worse than it used to be, partially because they think it's worse than it actually is. Plus there are killers that do more or less nullify the perk, such as Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Clown, Freddy, Wesker at max. infection. Off The Record isn't nearly as potent as old DS because base endurance already cancels out the perk's primary effect and because one hit worth of distance is not nearly as much as old DS granted, especially not against a variety of the killer abilities or STBFL.
There's been more popular and regular tournament DbD in the last two years than ever before, and it was much more on the forefront of the collective community's consciousness, not least due to BHVR's official community cups, as well as multiple high-profile streamers covering the topic repeatedly. Camping and tunnelling are the bread and butter strategies in competitive environments because they simply are the most effective strategies if your goal is to kill as many survivors as possible as consistently as possible, and the community has wisened up to this much more so than in the past, where it was much more common for the average player to think of camping and tunnelling as things that are akin to "throwing the game just to annoy someone in particular".
I think camping and tunnelling are important parts of the game and integral to its balance and shouldn't be removed altogether, but rebalancing is definitely in order, particularly because they are the bane of the solo survivor experience. Rebalancing meaning some nerfs for camping and tunnelling along with compensatory buffs to other aspects of killer gameplay. For tunnelling, they've actually already done a really good thing by implementing the 10-second unhook endurance. I personally do not have a problem with getting tunnelled, chase interaction is literally what I want to have, but it's still problematic because someone getting tunnelled means the other survivors will have little to no interaction with the killer, and if the person getting tunnelled is outmatched/unlucky/the killer too oppressive, the round can be a foregone conclusion without the other survivors even being able to do much of anything about it. There could be more comprehensive rebalancing for camping and tunnelling, but it would already go a long way to buff DS again (either by increasing the stun timer back to 5 seconds, or making it so that DS can activate up to two times, like OTR), make unhook endurance unhook invincibility instead (such that it doesn't clash with OTR, but remove survivor collision during those 10 seconds), as well as remove hook grabs. Compensation for these changes could be a buff for Weasel that allows it to remove 50% progress of the gen furthest away from the hook with progress on it (which the perk would highlight), a buff for BBQ that increases the killer's movement speed by 1% for every token (it loses a token whenever a survivor is hooked for the second or third time), a buff for Grim Embrace that makes it block generators for 10 seconds for every unfinished gen remaining on the map at the time of its activation, the ability to cancel a pallet break action, stuff like that.
Tunnelling definitely isn't as big of a gameplay issue as camping though. Tunnelling means consecutive chases, it still provides interactive and engaging gameplay. If you are good in chases, bring DH + DS and you won't mind getting tunnelled. If you aren't good in chases, bring SB + OTR, or even things like Lucky Break or Dance With Me that enable you to attempt to lose the killer. It's not ideal that perks are needed to deal with these things sometimes, but at least there do exist ways to better deal with it.
Terminus's big problem is that it's time-limited. Otherwise, it'd actually be good for deterring brazen save attempts.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339498#Comment_3339498
"people not accepting that premise" - but how can one argue with a fact? i don't play call of duty and complain about not being able to get a nuke every game? that's not how the game was designed.
i can't speak for the devs. but if i had to guess it's because they're trying to appeal to a new audience since the game has had swf for long enough that the community is now predominantly swf players. and those same players likely hate the solo experience because it's so different from swf.
had swf never been added then these issues would have never arrisen. so if we're to point fingers i think swf should be removed since it's the actual problem.
People did SWF before SWF was a thing, remember. It was just endless lobby dodging.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339482#Comment_3339482
i fail to see what's wrong with the first option. that's what an asymmetrical game is.
People not accepting that premise.
Also the part where the game is increasingly treated as a 1v4 by the developers.
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@wydyadoit said:
but why?
it's pretty simple. if you survive you win. if you don't you lose. choose better perks, offerings, and items. outlive the other players and escape through hatch if you have to. winning a match as a survivor is all about your personal ability to survive. the other players are there to do the same. use them. they're a resource. if you have to bait the killer into chasing someone else. see another survivor enter a locker while you're being chased? use a diversion perk to make the killer think you're the one that went into the locker. now the killer has to deal with a 50/50 hook scenario. that gives you time to hide, heal, and you'll get bloodpoints for the unhook.
it's little things like that. swf has made the community think it's a team game. it's not.
It's either a 1v1 game where you have to accept that, as the Survivor, you're at a massive disadvantage and should be expected to lose without assistance, or it's a team game and should actually acknowledge that.
The obvious thing is that, since release, people have realised the blindingly obvious fact that working together is vastly better than trying to do it all by yourself. And even BHVR's definitely come around to that philosophy--look at the HUD update, which is blatantly meant to facilitate such things.
The rest of the game needs to catch up to the de facto state, rather than half a decade old steam page writeups.
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Reassurance does eliminate most camping effectiveness. With co-ordination.
The problem is that, like everything else that works well with co-ordination, it's lacklustre without it. Of course, the flip side is that everything that's strong against a particular tactic without co-ordination becomes absolutely ridiculous once it is available. Which again goes back to the problem where a win or loss for Survivors gets registered (both in MMR and perception) on the individual level outside of playing in a team.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339207#Comment_3339207
Same. Seems like whenever you hear the Pinhead gong there’s at least one immediate DC. Pinhead should only be allowed to get matched against 4 man SWF squads
But I like playing Pinhead. :(
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339115#Comment_3339115
I think there's a lot more people that dislike indoor maps compared to outdoor maps but I think it more so stems from most the outdoor maps being much, much less balanced for all the reasons I mentioned previously and people like having all their unfair advantages. Indoor maps are generally speaking some of the most balanced maps.
I dislike them because there's too many doorways.
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Stealth! My enemy!
Uh, bring Distortion. Obviously.
And no, flashy clothes don't matter. Although, I have lost track of someone in neon clothing when they were literally right in front of me, without even much line of sight break, so I don't think my ability to spot people up close is terribly good. That Mikaela running right on the edge of vision? Sure! Brightly coloured Nea or Feng in my face? Really? I can't see 'em. xD
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338522#Comment_3338522
Is this actually consistent? Because I see those things sometimes, but not all the time. I just thought that those are Bugs.
Well, it's that or where they're summoned and it doesn't disappear when the flag does...
It seems pretty pointless either way (and for some reason identifies which of the ghosties it is)
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Wherever his guards were when they unsummoned. No, I don't know why that's marked out.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338320#Comment_3338320
Your entire argument is based on "harder should be stronger otherwise nobody will play it"
Yes because that is how balancing works. It is even like that so much that you even see this in shooters. If a gun is easy to use and high dps it will always be meta. Good balance will always be harder things being the strongest when mastered while the easier being the weakest. Players usually don't gravitate towards badly balanced things(weak). I don't see what is wrong with that unless you think I mean nobody playing it in a literal sense. Obvious players will play it but if it is badly balanced most will avoid it.
No it shouldn't. All the Killers should be in a similar ballpark
That is incorrect. If a bump logic Blight is only slightly better than Freddy then either Freddy is broken or Blight is terrible.
Think about what you're saying: if you won't play a more complicated Killer, if you don't like that power or something about the Killer, you automatically deserve to lose more games.
Yea I know what I'm saying. I mean it really is absurd to even think that Blight would be fine balance wise if he was only slightly better than m1 killers. Even if we go to Demo vs Blight there should always be a large gap there since the skill required to play both prefect are night and day different.
Nothing is broken if an easier to use thing doesn't suck. All Killers should be B-Tier to A-Tier, without absurd outliers in every direction. Difficulty of playing the Killer doesn't matter after that; people are going to pick what they like, for whatever reason that is. Yes, you're going to get the people who go straight to the best thing for winning at the least difficulty, but guess what? If the game was balanced, that wouldn't matter. Because this is an asymmetric game, and the only thing that matters is what the actual power level is.
That is incorrect. If a bump logic Blight is only slightly better than Freddy then either Freddy is broken or Blight is terrible.
Why? If Freddie was improved to not be so much worse than Blight, why does that mean he's broken? Or that Blight is terrible?
Yea I know what I'm saying. I mean it really is absurd to even think that Blight would be fine balance wise if he was only slightly better than m1 killers. Even if we go to Demo vs Blight there should always be a large gap there since the skill required to play both prefect are night and day different.
Why. Should. There. Be. A. Gap.
You're not arguing why there should be a gap, or why this is justified. You're asserting that more difficult needs to be stronger, because it's more difficult. Your argument is a closed circle with its entire reliance being on 'people won't play the harder thing as much if it isn't'. Which doesn't even matter? Pick rate is not the be-all and end-all.
My premise is simple: if the game can be more balanced, it will be more fun in general (not so many utter stomps on both sides, and inevitable unwinnable matches). For the game to be more balanced, there needs to not be a yawning chasm in Killer power where you can't do anything to address overall Killer gameplay because you'd buff something that doesn't need it. Therefore, more mechanically complicated Killers, by necessity, need to be somewhere in line with the easiest ones to play.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338293#Comment_3338293
You can't have your game balance be based around the complexity of an ability chosen before the game starts. That's not a viable balancing strategy.
But you should and this game is balanced in that way. If Freddy is equal to B tier killers then why would I play a B tier killer that isn't Freddy? Freddy is now better because he is the same in power but easier to play. You then would just be doing power creep where the B tier killers that are harder now need to be buffed to justify their higher difficulty. This then repeats in A tier where you end back to square one.
If the killer is more difficult it should always better than easier to play killers, that's basic balancing. If you don't do this then the easier killers are actually better since they can hit their cap at a much easier and consistent way compared to their harder counterparts.
Because you like their power and want to use it. Or their design.
Your starting point is completely flawed. Your entire argument is based on "harder should be stronger otherwise nobody will play it", but people play a bunch of things that are more difficult without them being stronger (both in this game at times, and in others), whether because of external reasons, or they just enjoy the mechanical complexity.
If the killer is more difficult it should always better than easier to play killers, that's basic balancing. If you don't do this then the easier killers are actually better since they can hit their cap at a much easier and consistent way compared to their harder counterparts.
No it shouldn't. All the Killers should be in a similar ballpark. The most complex ones will probably edge it out in the end because of weird interactions and unexpected power usages, but you absolutely don't want to aim for a stratified game where you set out to punish people for not wanting to play a particular Killer.
Think about what you're saying: if you won't play a more complicated Killer, if you don't like that power or something about the Killer, you automatically deserve to lose more games. Because your character choice is bad and has to stay bad.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338289#Comment_3338289
I wont admit anything because there is nothing to admit. But glad you admitted eruption which is problematic. But thats why devs outright said they are gutting it soon while nothing on dh including pain res yet. So the tides are in my favor. Not yours.
I've been saying that Eruption should just be entity blocking since I picked the game up after a break. That's nothing new. And also that going from "old DH was everywhere" to "new DH was everywhere", having skipped over the actual brief lull after 6.1.0, does not actually feel significantly better. No chance to fool myself that things have improved because of the period where people weren't using it every game. <_>
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337766#Comment_3337766
He is working how he was designed. If a killer is suppose to be low/mid tier then they shouldn't have a high skill ceiling. High skill ceiling killers should always be the top tier ones. If they made his snipes always give a hit then you would just get your injure and then snipe with guard since you can easily track a survivor that is injured. That change would then require a rework to his power since without it he would be an A tier killer that is easy and also having little to no counterplay. He would now be a spirit-like killer and not more of a commander where you order you guards to help assist you in downing survivors.
What? That's an inherently terrible argument.
You can't have your game balance be based around the complexity of an ability chosen before the game starts. That's not a viable balancing strategy. "No matter how much you like playing this ability, or how good you get with it, there should be games you'll always lose because it's not as fiddly and unnecessarily difficult as this other power".
Difficult. Should. Not. Equal. Stronger.
It is, in fact, an abdication of game balance.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338262#Comment_3338262
Im not going to type multiple paragraphs. But what you wrote down is still the same mindset with pain res. And you cant change my mind. Even if they change dh again, ppl will adapt and killers will complain. Crazy cycle
Ah, yes, because pain res has so many different advantages and nuisances. A non-directional scream or having to stop working on a gen for an utterly insignificant amount of time. That can't happen every hook, relies on the Killer getting hooks to do anything, isn't in every game, and can't be targeted or used on demand.
About the only relevant point is that you can get penalised by weird skill timings, but that's not even related to the perk!
If you said Eruption, you'd have more of a point. But that means actually admitting that DH is problematic in its current state.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338211#Comment_3338211
There are many more factors that go into a pickrate, so pickrate itself is not a foolproof gauge for balance.
Of course, but if it it doesn't fall into "noob trap", "easy to use", or a regular comfort pick, then the balance has to be in question.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338228#Comment_3338228
Im comparing it to pain res because most survivors are already trained in letting go of a gen before someone gets hooked. Not only is pain res is counterable but dh is too. And both do have times where it may be unavoidable. Pain res-get a skill check as soon as someone gets hooked so u cant let go. And dh-pallets.
But this is missing the point: people know how to counter DH. And that the counter is stupid.
- DH gets value when it's not even in the game or your perk load out. You get precious seconds whilst the Killer waits to see if you have it (which can then get you another loop). This was one of the biggest complaints about old DH, too.
- The lose-lose scenarios around pallets and loops, where DH allows way more greed... or you get hit and then get to the next loop. Either way, this buys more time in chase than any other perk, at all.
- A lot of powers have obvious charge times to give Survivors time to react to what's meant to be a strong ability. This makes timing DH for such things super easy. "Don't use your power because this perk exists" is not an encouraging thing given that the powers are what differentiates Killers.
- As a perk, it can negate all sources of Exposed or instadown powers; despite being nearly ubiquitous, DH counters entire builds.
- It still gets some value even when countered, because countering it forces the Killer to waste time. Or maybe you'll get to a loop, and if they swing too early because of that... boom, third health state and now you have a loop to play around.
And then there's the subjective "this is utterly ridiculous" of a perk making Killers too cautious to go for what should be a guaranteed down and instead having to sit on the Survivor's butt for another ten seconds to bait it out. Nearly every chase of every game.
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What, are you claiming adapt to it means "enjoy the way it changes how the game is played"? Because that is an utterly ridiculous view on 'adapting'.
DH is creeping back up to its old usage rate, everyone knows how to play around it (or to just eat it). That's more than enough to realise how strong it is, and hate the way it changes the game.
Also, seriously, why are we comparing DH to Pain Res? Pain Res doesn't even do the same revealing trick it did when it was first released, and the counterplay to it costs all of a second on a gen with no other downside or way it can fail (and then it can't even force people off with DMS because you weren't on the gen when the hook happened). <_>
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@Gamall said:
It is a balanced perk indeed.
After the rework survivors adapted to it while the killers did not, because it is easier to ask for yet another nerf
Killers have adapted to it.
The problem is that the counterplay is just as ridiculous as being screwed over by the old DH for distance was. Not got a way to inflict Deep Wound? Sit on someone's butt and hope they don't have something safe to go for. Or resume the silly game of waving your screen around or fake-charging a power (if you can) to try and trick the Survivor into thinking you're attacking.
But all of this puts us back in the same stupid scenario of having to assume everyone's running DH even if they're not running DH.
And you still have like half or more of the powers in the game that give a big "LOOK AT ME COMING!" warning and whoops, don't use your power if you want to bait DH! (Also not counting that some things, like Billy, encourage people to stay injured and therefore entirely counter the point of having an instadown power)
All the things that made Killers hate old DH also make them hate new DH.
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@Kedasa said:
I dont think the last buff did change much. The only thing i noticed is, i am getting way more guards to chase someone, but they are still easy countered by running forward.
i don't know if i am playing him right, but i'd say his time to down is very high (except you get a double hit with your guard, which is pretty rare imo). There are some little things, i would like to change to make him better in general.
- Ability Placement: Pls Bhvr...why does he need to have space in front of him to use his Ability? Its sometimes so damn annoying, if you want to place a guard, but you can't, because you need to have enough space in front of you.
- Guard Swap: Yeah, pls make it so we can decide which guard we can use. Even if it means the cooldown becomes longer every time you we the same guard.
- A quick Summon Ability: I am thinking about something like this. If a survivor is within a range of for example 10 m, you see this green circle around them, like you see around the gens and if you see that, you can summon a guard. The Hunt Timer would be way shorter compared to a "Path-Hunt", but the Shift W counter wouldnt be as strong, because you don't lose to much distance if you try to get a survivor away from a loop. And additionally it would buff Knight in general, if he could just walk past a breakable wall and quick summon his guard to destroy it.
- The last point, if Bhvr belongs to the original thought about his playstyle with using paths: The longer the path, the faster the guards or at least fix the speed of the guards, so my guard won't become outrunned, although i placed him right next to the surv.
These are just some random ideas, but i guess some of them would be healthy for him.
#1 is because that's how they fixed his release bug of 'lose power entirely as it got stuck in a wall somehow'.
Except it makes everything frustratingly clunky. Not just for using his power to break things, but using it in places like Lery's, or the big boat on swamp.
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Seriously, though, BHVR needs to come up with another fix for the 'lose your power in a wall or prop' thing than just giving him an invisible 2m barrier on being able to use your power. Pallet dropped in your face? Well, break it yourself, don't use the guy whose whole thing is BREAKING pallets; you lose more time backing up to where you can use it.
And just get randomly screwed by confined spaces.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337605#Comment_3337605
There's one thing I've learned over the years. Getting myself to the level of a decent surv made me a much better player.
But I play the game to enjoy myself, not to become a better player. Spending hours and hours on a role I don't enjoy would be treating the game like a job.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Man I wish there weren't "mains" in this game, just players enjoying both roles. Too much us vs. them going on. I swear if most got up to and maintained a competent level in both roles, there'd be enough empathy going around to work out most issues.
But nothing about the Survivor gameplay loop interests me. It's based around the type of game I don't play. :T
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Favourite: currently Blight, probably going to drift back to Pinhead and Wesker at some point, but I like being a pinball. Also, running shadowborn is actively helpful rather than just "so the game doesn't look and feel like crap".
Least Favourite: Sadako. Kind of... pointless, most of the time.
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Let him use his power when up against an obstacle you want to break, and something so you aren't trying to draw patrols through narrow obstacles at high speed and getting stuck. I dunno, just phase through the wall and correct the path?
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@Nirgendwohin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337423#Comment_3337423
did you know that players from africa also have to play on the european servers?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337482#Comment_3337482
this is ingame and not in the lobby that everyone is talking about.
You didn't mention that in your post. You just said "Killers have to play on European servers".