RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@Xendritch said:
Honestly all the people that prefer chase killers can suck it up plain and simple. We get 3-4 chase killers every year where as those of us that like set up killers haven't gotten one since hag all the way back in 2016. We can have one new setup killer 7 years later can't we?
They just need to buff SM's numbers a bit so she can do things besides 3 gen and she'll be great.
But what do you buff that doesn't make the 3gen even worse but adds more elsewhere? That is the question.
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I dunno, not in your MMR bracket? Would be the logical answer.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348844#Comment_3348844
From how I've seen people use SM I think I've seen maybe 2-3 people actually figure her out completely while everyone else just gives up and goes "I guess I just put these next to gens?" which sure works but there's a lot more you can do with it so I don't really agree with your premise. It's like saying "hag is just putting triangles on ground" but then you watch a player like michi explaining their play and you realize the killer is so much more complex at a higher level.
Also I'm not saying wesker and blight don't take skill they take a tremendous amount of mechanical skill but what I am saying is that mechanical skill is not the only type of skill. Being able to manage macro, be predictive and have general great game sense and planning abilities is also a skill and that's what killers like Hag, Trapper, and SM test that chase killers really don't.
Chase killers benefit from macro knowledge and skill too, though, which is part of the problem.
But as I said, I think what a lot of it comes down to is control over your power expression. SM is another case of giving too much information to the Survivors to enable them to work around it, and a logical counter of "run away from power". Trapper and Hag at least give some measure of 'here's a good place it's hidden/that I can chase someone into and get immediate payoff', aside from the haste and aura addons, SM... doesn't.
I think if she was able to stealth her drones and Survivors had to find them and didn't get immediately told they were taking effect, she'd be in a much stronger place (not that it feels like a sufficient buff tbh; I liked the num drones out * 20% = extra lunge distance someone suggested to just give her something a little more) and lose at least a chunk of the complaints on that. Because then it's more on your clever placement, and less on Survivors ignoring it for some reason.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348838#Comment_3348838
Yes, all good points.
- Correct.
- Correct.
- Assuming, they are not banned correct.
- Mostly correct.
You see, what you just did was assume that everyone in that category has not cheated or have not been banned already. When you do this, which by the way is explicitly contrary to the data I provided it is easy to come up with the conclusion you just did. So you established a false premise (no one in this group has cheated!) and tried to hide it in this little story. Very sneaky of you!
Of course, it contradicts the data I provided. So let's take the data I provided and apply it to your scenario.
- 100% of VAC banned players cheaters haven't been banned yet in DbD.
- 9% of these people are genuinely reformed and will never cheat again ever!
- Of the remaining 91%, they will cheat, are currently cheating, or are currently banned.
The end.
So if you just want to make up false premises, distort the statistics, and attack my argument while committing your own logical fallacies which are plain to see go ahead. You've already said NOTHING will change your mind. This is obvious from the logical fallacies you've committed and that I've pointed out.
To your final point, yes they should improve the report system. I am open to all solutions.
Anyway, seeing as how you are unwilling to change your mind, just made a sneaky attack on my proposition, and accuse me of being fallacious and illogical I won't discuss this with you further. However, if you do suddenly change your mind and your answer to the question I posed
If I told you (and assume it is true because it's just a thought experiment) that 100% of VAC banned players cheat again would that change your mind? If your answer to this is no, why?
is yes, then I will be willing to re-engage with you again. As you can see from the above statement, this was a thought experiment. The situation I posed to you was would you ban a group of people who were 100% guaranteed to cheat again. That's it. A simple yes would have let me know you were in good faith.
No, because you ban people for cheating, not because you think they're going to cheat. This is not a difficult concept.
Your 90% number is a premise. And only a premise. It's an assumption that reoffending in the same game means reoffending in new games, or that cheating in one is cheating in all of them. It is not supported by the source and not actionable.
If 100% of VAC bans cheat eventually, then you want an anticheat system that bans them when they do.
And since that number ISN'T 100%, it's an even easier conclusion. You don't ban based on the external data, or start trying to carve weird caveats out like the recency on even less data.
People cheat, you ban them. They aren't, you don't. You can't tell? Improve the cheat detection and reporting system.
You're making things way more complicated in a way they don't need to be, without any actual ability to prove it would help. And suggesting people in this thread should be banned just because you have a hunch it might help elsewhere. Kind of rude, don't you think?
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I bought it.
Could do with less clipping.
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As it turns out, "move fast" has more to learn and do than "press button and deploy drone". Who'da thunk it?
Probably something about locus of control, too. Powers whose effectiveness is a measure of your skill, and where the effects are controlled by the player, appeal to people far more than one where it's far more dependent on the other players misstepping.
(and obviously the actual issues with the power implementation like visibility, ######### is up with the timing on the undetectable, and 'you need to place it somewhere it's easily seen and gotten to on top of everything else because it can't get through walls despite its small area')
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348818#Comment_3348818
They are not a general source? They are not being used in a comparable environment or situation?
- They are based on a very large data set that Riot Games has. As LoL is one of the most popular games in the world, I think it would be classified as a general source for behavior in online gaming. Why do you disagree? Is it because they are different games? They are both online multiplayer games. Why does it matter if they are different games? What source or methodology would you like?
- They are comparable environments. Both are online multiplayer games. Both are competitive games. Both are played by millions of people. What similarities do you think they should share in order to be comparable?
No I am not inadvertently saying people in this thread MUST be cheaters. That is a gross mischaracterization of my proposition. I am saying that the likelihood that they are cheaters is significantly higher when compared to the general populace. So much so that it would be better to disclude them all together given the likelihood of cheating to occur again.
As for the 20% you cited, you forgot to mention that only 20% did not get caught cheating after a few months. Not years, not a year, just a few months. So it is with great likelihood that it is even lower than 20%. If you would have mentioned the 9% that actually reform you would have seen that the likelihood of reform is very low. For the record, the recidivism rate for cheating is higher than that of prison.
Yes, there is a much simpler solution than worrying about whether I am going to ban innocent people. I simply don't worry about it. It is a very small portion of the population once you factor in the totality of the circumstances. Only a small portion of players cheat. Only a small portion of cheaters get caught. Only a small portion of cheaters that get caught reform. It is a miniscule amount.
Now with that said, I do think there could be an appeals process where one has to demonstrate that they have changed. They could just write an essay to BHvR for all I care. Or maybe not get banned for a year or two on VAC.
What would it take to change your mind?
Nothing is changing my mind, because your premise is inherently stupid. Even with your own numbers, that's at least 10% of people that aren't cheating at all, and 90% that may or may not be cheating in DbD now or have ever cheated in DbD. So, at least 10% of your proposed bans are unjust, and we have no way to ascertain how many are even warranted.
- 100% of these people you're proposing be banned are not banned from DbD.
- 10% of these people, at least, have genuinely reformed and don't cheat in anything.
- Of the remaining 90%, 100% are (as far as we are aware) not cheating, because they're not banned.
- Conclusion: with the methods we have, all 100% of these bans would seem to only target people that aren't cheating, therefore we shouldn't do it.
Also not including any people who somehow managed to get a false positive at any point in the past 20 years VAC has existed.
It's irrational to ban people on the suspicion that they may possibly be a cheater when you actually have procedures for detecting and banning cheaters. You're not improving the game at that point, you're just going to cause backlash and lose customers.
(Working on a better reporting system would be a much more useful way to reduce cheating than wonky probability application)
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348795#Comment_3348795
My entire premise is ridiculous? Followed it up with "something something LoL statistics?"
Really? Including statistics is now ridiculous? Why do you think this?
My logic is based on statistics, yes. Statistics that include reformation rates of another popular online game. My logic is predicated on studies (you can just google these or LMK if you want a link) that the behavior of video game cheating are largely based on personality and cultural traits. Personality traits that change very little and culture which takes decades to go through significant transitions.
If I could surmise your point it would be that
- One innocent banned is too much.
- Cheaters use free or low cost Epic accounts.
Yes, someone can always get a new account. There is no solution around this especially if they bypass HWID bans. This is a problem that is already in existence and will likely be in existence forever. Thank you for mentioning it. Should we not ban anyone because of this? It seems to be a fallacious point. So I'll stick with the first point you made.
- One innocent banned is too much.
Okay. I disagree. One, this argument can and will be used against any prohibitive or punitive action. Yes, innocents will always be the victim of any process. It is it inevitable. Whether that's because of the process itself or the abuse of the process by individuals is a separate matter but I just can't see this being a coherent argument if you actually apply it to society.
Two there are solutions to this. Solutions that already exist. Maybe there could be appeals process. Maybe the ban could only apply if the VAC ban is less than a year old.
Did I surmise your point correctly? Is there anything I misunderstood or left out?
Because your statistics are irrelevant. They are not a general source. They are not being used in a comparable environment or situation. To apply them to DbD like that is a gross misuse of the findings. What you're also inadvertently doing is saying that people in this thread must be cheaters because it's improbable they changed (and ignoring the 20% of people in your source that didn't continue cheating).
There is a much simpler solution than worrying about whether you're going to ban innocent people over a VAC ban: we keep banning people in DbD for cheating in DbD. 🙄
This entire proposal serves no purpose. Seriously, you're just going "I think these people might be a problem, so maybe we should ban them!" on no evidence. Just a really weak hypothesis ("People with VAC bans are a disproportionate number of unbanned cheaters") that isn't even testable, because if we could test it we'd be able to ban people for cheating anyway.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348786#Comment_3348786
That's not an answer. It's the "because I said so" argument. If you're point is that one is too much then okay but just come outright and say it instead of doing this.
Also, the second part of your premise is false. Really? No one?
Because the dedicated cheaters make new accounts for it and use the game from Epic when it was free ffs.
Your entire premise is completely ridiculous and disjointed. Something something LoL statistics? Really? Your logic is based on how people who cheat at one game will keep cheating at that game when unbanned, and you want to use that to go "people who cheated in an FPS game years ago are clearly still cheating in... an asymmetric horror game!"
You don't have a single credible argument this would improve DbD in any way. All it would do is, as people have said in this thread, randomly ban players who aren't doing anything!
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348781#Comment_3348781
What percentage of people do you think reform?
Consider the length of time VAC bans have existed, and how many people do stupid things when they're young.
The answer is: enough. You're not going to get anyone that you're actually trying to ban, and you're just going to pull a bunch of people in as collateral damage.
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@Pulsar said:
I do genuinely think that it's in their best interest to not release the Killer at this time.
They should release the Survivors and the maps but hold the Killer until the Mid-Chapter or later. She has so many issues that can't be solved in 3 weeks that require a re-design. Buffs won't fix her.
also a rethink on that walk cycle
Hips don't work like that!
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348685#Comment_3348685
your example is precisely why I don't think that's the issue. So many times you can land on cars, ledges, pallets, carts, etc until they fix said bug. that I am pretty sure they fix them case-by-case by invisible "walls".
True.
Although, tbf, defining floor vs obstacles should not be a new task and if they haven't done it they need to.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347965#Comment_3347965
This is probably not issue. There's usually difference between visual of object (that you can delete) and actual interaction (but it is possible I am wrong depending on their implementation). Also you can remove parts of map strictly for those players, that are locked in animation (namely killer and morried person, again depending on existing code).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364999/object-culling-for-moris
But this still might be hard to do. You would need to mark every object as what is "ground" and can't be removed (stairs, hills, possibly grass, ...) Or anything else that could possibly make you levitate and distinguish it from things like cars, walls, etc that could be removed. This could be very time consuming, maybe even hard (depending on existing code) and prone for bugs.
I would mutch rather have devs focus on fixing actual bugs in a game.
They already distinguish between ground and obstacles; you'll notice when jumping down from 2-floor maps you can't land on TOP of things. And obviously, things like the Lery's central room don't have infinitely high hitboxes.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348076#Comment_3348076
IMO I think it might actually be beneficial for new players to have them right off the bat for every survivor/killer because they aren't really all bad and can be good basic perks for people, at least auto-unlocked at level 1. IE baby dwight, who got him up to level 15 to play him with his tutorial bps for his first match ever would benefit him to run kindred + bond + we'll make it + inner strength. Baby trapper at level 15 could run like fearmonger + agi + jolt + sloppy.
Selfishly, though, I p1'ed most of my characters before the prestige rework to bump them up to p3 for their teachables to be purple on everyone. It takes a full prestige, and maybe some flow-over into the next prestige depending on rng, to unlock every universal survivor perk to purple starting from level 1. And I'm tired of spending bps on characters because I feel the compulsion to have them all perked out lol.
Okay, but what are you expecting Baby Dwight to pick in the first fifteen levels, then? Putting them in the shrine won't help.
Unless you're saying that universal perks should just be available for everyone at level 3. That'd be fair.
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Not really much point; once you've maxed out a character for their perks (to P3), all future characters will run out of perks well before that point. You're never really going to stop at level 40, and none of the universal perks are that do-or-die, so why make them guaranteed?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Killer Mains complain about too many DHs. BHVR releases a Perk which works with other Exhaustion-Perks and NOT with DH --> Also not good.
Sigh.
It's not good because of how it can trigger and how its trigger can be denied.
It only works if you're on death hook (effective if the Killer is tunnelling you or at endgame) but only if at full health (you can't just use it off hook). So the best way to counter it is... tunnel. And if it was usable injured, it'd go with DH! It's just... bad design.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346893#Comment_3346893
DS wasn't 'amazing' before the 6.1 dumpstering, it was a perk that required the killer's cooperation to function. 9/10 matches it'd do nothing.
Blood Rush will be way more consistent and less dependant on the killer's help.
It's dependent on the Killer not tunnelling anyone with SB the instant they get off the hook.
Which is the natural response to deal with this perk.
Genius perk design, ain't it? Want less tunnelling = make perk that has tunnelling as its natural response. In the same patch as 'perk that gives the unhooker a 6s sprint burst and leaves the unhooked Survivor a sitting duck by comparison'.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347116#Comment_3347116
It doesn’t do any of that. You have to have one hook left before you die, be fully healed, running, and exhausted to use it. And all it does is remove your exhaustion. I agree it won’t really save the person being tunneled but hey it buys a little more time for the team. Maybe they can come in and body block/take aggro.
It buys no time if you tunnel someone, because it can only trigger when Healthy.
The logical counter to it is just to tunnel anyone with SB or Lithe on third hook. It's dumb.
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@Carth said:
Yes knight, trickster, and twins had awful reception on their PTBs. For different reasons, but this isn't the first killer that dropped and mostly negative feedback has been posted about them.
I think all of those at least got SOMETHING positive, though.
Like, the defence of SM's current gameplay has boiled down to 'I like M1 Killers'. Whether something is fun is subjective, sure, but that doesn't contribute to actually analysing the gameplay loop and power depth. They've released a kit that doesn't have anything positive to say about it except "Huh, that's a new type of skill check for Survivors, neat". All the benefits the power has are either riddled with caveats (tiny range, super short undetectable, delay on undetectable, short duration, claw trap does nothing and requires the Survivor to interfere, exposed takes ages to build up, power lets Survivors know what's going on so they can just leave, radar requires holding another button, etc.) or just something that an M1 Killer with no slowdown can't capitalise on. They made a trap-based Killer whose power works like Ghostface's, but without any sort of reliable stealth access or selective application of the exposed. <_>
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You'd also want to add another complicated subsystem that isn't tied to the gamestate to BHVR's code. Er...
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Everytime i get more and more dissapointed in what some people call a gamebreaking bug
Next, weird animation glitches that don't change hitboxes are anything will be gamebreaking!
Spirit's butt zoom-in? Gamebreaking. The way Wesker sometimes causes Survivors to just drive an invisible car when they run away because things went weird? Gamebreaking. /s
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The Game really depends on your ability to either get people out of a pallet or break them fast.
Nemesis does really well there, for one. He can even hit people over a bunch of the loops, really helps.
RPD is a bizarre test of your power's ease of use in confined spaces. And your sense of direction.
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Are we sure they haven't already implemented impossible geometries in the game? After all, just look at the disconnect between many hitboxes and the items they're supposedly mapped to. If we assume that they're actually a projection of strange higher-dimensional shapes into our 3D world, then that might explain why things never match visibly!
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Did people also forget lockers exist? NtH might catch you out the first time, but between the terror radius and having eyes, distortion isn't the only thing.
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@FMG15 said:
The perk is in a weak spot. On most maps it has 0 impact so the current purpose of this perk is mainly to annoy the killer. Maybe this perk should bring back the effect of the beta wiggle where you get a boost in progression if you hit the great skillchecks (the great skillchecks should be as hard to hit when the wiggle mechanic was in beta). They can also keep the side effect that you get a huge progression boost when the killer falls from a high place. On the flipside it shouldn't have the annoying increase in wiggle like in the current version. This makes the perk actually stronger for certain builds but not as annoying anymore.
honestly, probably better. That plus the idea of inverting the hook aura hiding so that it's more difficult to actually wander off to a more distant hook.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345306#Comment_3345306
Counterpoint: Gary Gygax was one of the most successful game designers of all time. A lot of his level designs revolved around trolling the player with ridiculously obscure and bizarre progression requirements, and rage game levels of difficulty.
Players actually like it when stuff is obnoxious or frustrating, it gives you a sense of meaningful accomplishment when you succeed. Why else would Dark Souls and Mario Maker be runaway smash hits?
People like challenges to overcome. The most famous example regarding Gygax is, obviously, Tomb of Horrors, which was what he created in response to players telling him that things were too easy. And then the first time it got ran, people found a loophole anyway (that later got closed). I think it might've involved the Sphere of Annihilation? Can't remember. There was also an issue with people stealing the doors when they were actually made of Mithril and XP = treasure.
Same thing with Dark Souls. It's hard at first, and it's frustrating, but people enjoy the challenge and coming out on top. The least popular parts of those games are always the 'and then RNG kills you' things, something which genre copycats don't get.
Frustrating and annoying only to be annoying, not because it's a challenge, is what's bad design.
(Also, my most played games on Steam, after modding the everloving daylights out of Skyrim and DbD, are FromSoft, so... xD)
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345306#Comment_3345306
i provided an alternative that addresses your concerns. you failed to comment on it.
I didn't fail to, I just didn't have anything to say.
Still terrible design, tbh. Blurring is another 'completely pointless and just kind of annoying' mechanic, but slower movement goes back to the 'easy to have unhookable situations' flaw. Anything that's predicated on 'makes the Survivor harder to hook without reason' is bad. Flip-flop? Pick up immediately. Power struggle? Ditto. Also don't walk through pallets. Boil over and that proposed variation? "Don't down Survivor in a bad area"... which you have no control over because 'bad area' can just be where they held W to. It doesn't reward the Survivor for playing well or punish a mistake on the Killer's end or reward teamwork.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345280#Comment_3345280
it is meant to be obnoxious. the whole point of the perk is:
obnoxious movement that forces camera and walking abnormalities - this is base kit, but enhanced.
aura blinding - this increases the duration of the interaction
forced use of stairs - this prevents the killer from traversing large distances and ensures the killer can't guarantee basement hooks or drops to lower levels like the saw map.
this ensures extended interaction with the obnoxious movement to annoy the killer. it's meant to be annoying. that's the whole point. that's why it's called boil over and is the "southern belle's" perk with a bucking bronco as the icon.
again i'll reiterate that i like the current version. it's thematic and purposeful.
but to show that i'm not a terrible sport i'll give you an alternative version:
current version
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QIHIUBVEQBM7/1aeba80e-e9e9-4099-9279-bc853b2a1f42.jpeg
my new version
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/00N4HHWAE5VR/8d4805dc-4b0e-4889-9201-7a506e391b6d.jpeg
"Obnoxious and often ineffectual" is not good design. Purely being annoying isn't good design. If anyone ever designs a game and thinks 'something that only really exists to bug other people and irritate them is good!', they should quit game design and go be an accountant or something, because they clearly don't understand the point of video games.
Flavour is not important. If all something does is vacillate between being annoying and being uncounterable except by slugging (and slugging being something that is supposedly discouraged, not to mention just punitive in general on the BP and pipping front), it needs a redesign. It's stupid.
And what it doesn't do is act as a preventative measure against Basement hooking specifically (anyone doing that is probably running agitation and/or iron grasp and will manage that if they really want to, or find some other hook--the people that want to do it are least affected). In The Game and Midwich it just exacerbates the hook RNG, but where it really shows up is, again: second floor of main buildings that don't generate hooks up there. Because what really needed to be prevented was... the Killer hooking people whenever there's an easily accessible main building? Don't think so.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345264#Comment_3345264
boil over is intended to encourage the killer to get slugged(inability to hook the survivor) but the issue is that killing a survivor through slugging is inefficient from time stand point. there is no risk to it. you get a crazy amount of second chances for forcing the killer to slug.
In old wiggle system, they used to make you hit skill-checks for -1 second wiggle time. Now its 20% struggling. It seems that they wanted boil over to be a perk that decreases wiggle timer by -5 seconds since every 20% = -1 second. they're hiding the perk's true intention by making the perk effect less obvious so killer get less upset. I do not think killer have a problem with slugging but with how current system is, perks like this cannot be strong if the slugging system is survivor sided.
I have zero idea how you came to the conclusion that extra struggling strength equals -5 seconds, especially because Boil Over only affected the amount of movement you got the entire time that beta was going on.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345237#Comment_3345237
i play exclusively on controller. i wasn't talking about mouse and keyboard. call it a "stupid side to side sashay" if you want, but i like the mechanic - as a killer main and as a controller player. opinion that may be, but then again that's what this post is about. opinions. i was sharing mine as well as providing helpful advice for overcoming the perk's current design - in case you were unaware. after all i don't know how skilled you may or may not be. at 2000 posts you're a frequent poster, but technically my account on here is older so 🤷🏻♂️.
the killer mechanic was already addressed by the above statement. the survivor mechanic is what I was addressing by commenting on the skill check and button mash system. however, if you want i can address it as a killer condition and gameplay element to suit your fancy. that doesn't change the fact that the perk is technically a dual animation perk meaning it affects bother survivor and killer at the same time,
i can empathize with you for your dislike of the forced walk mechanic, but this is actually a mechanic that has been used in older games.
if we're to refer to killer gameplay exclusively then i would still rather have the stumble walk than the insertion of a forced skill check where the survivor causes the killer to have to press skill checks based on the success of the survivor's skill checks. because that would require that i remap my controls since killer and survivor controls are different on my settings. likewise - i do not want to have to be spamming a button when i have only 2 thumb and walking alone takes up both of them to control the camera and the movement.
this is why i'd rather the mechanic be survivor based and the killer element be related to an action already being performed - walking and turning.
It's been used, but it's never been considered good gameplay. It's generally been the opposite.
I mean, you can summarise my points as:
- If you don't know how to counter it (or can't, and that definitely seems to be harder for controller players--it comes up a lot), it's obnoxious, especially with how hooks tend to cluster around oddly-shaped objects, and how many maps have doors.
- If you know can counter it, it's not only ineffective to outright beneficial, it's still annoying in one of those 'force a silly pointless view wobble' ways.
- There are a number of maps where you can be effectively unhookable if you go down in the main building and not too close to the edge. Not only is this terrible design for one perk, at least two of them happen to be single-map realms, so it's easy to guarantee if that's your plan.
And this isn't even counting sabo play on top of it all. Or the aura hiding, because I tend to forget that's even there.
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@jesterkind said:
To be fair, the whole "second story instant loss" thing doesn't happen anymore, you can just take the drop immediately and it'll only shave the tiniest amount off the overall wiggle bar. You can't take drops towards the end of your path to the hook, that'll break them out much quicker, but if they go down next to a drop you just pick them up and walk over it immediately.
That being said, it is definitely annoying. The aura hiding is fine, and I also don't really have much of a problem with the drop thing since it's no longer abusable and only rarely gives you value, but the side-to-side sway is hardly fun even if it isn't gamebreaking. Some other third effect would be nice if they can think of one.
The problem is that there's more than enough buildings that aren't guaranteed to spawn a hook close enough, so all they need to do is not go down right at the edge (which is easy, just get caught sooner) and that liiiiittle extra progress guarantees they can't be hooked.
Like, the Borgo one can have basement, and you need to go down two narrow staircases with boil over in the time limit. Or go to some hook miles off which you won't have time for.
And then outside those buildings, it's just a nuisance perk.
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@wydyadoit said:
the way you counter it is to turn 45 degrees roughly in the direction you're forced to walk and continue walking a straight path. if you're familiar enough with the randomness you can beat it out by doing this.
it also works against the standard wiggle movement jerking.
if you're good enough you can actually speed up your ability to get to a hook faster.
the only thing that i struggle with in regards to boil over is the drop height struggle meter gain. because sometimes i get greedy and want to put a survivor in the basement, but sometimes there's a small drop that occurs and the survivor breaks free.
i don't mind the mechanic personally. it's better in my opinion than another skill check or button mashing mechanic.
1) When it can be perfectly countered by M&KB and memorising the perk, it's still terrible for yet another reason (and it doesn't for controller, to add reason #4 to the pile). 'You don't do a stupid look side to side sashay' should not be a perk's success condition (and I REALLY hate doing it).
2) 'better than another skill check or button mashing mechanic' has zilch to do with Killer gameplay. Like, what? How does a perk that makes wiggling more obnoxious have any benefit for gameplay variety?
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Level grinding for shards, IIRC.
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Sometimes. Sometimes less so.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345034#Comment_3345034
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9LCCSCXFTG1N/image.png
This is what I am talking about... it's bit strange and low res xD
Hmmm.
No, I think it's fine. If anything, it probably just looks bad static--there's fewer strands, but the way they undulate is kinda like liquid shadow or being underwater, it's neat.
(Also 4k)
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Are those spider lilies on that? It looks like they are.
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@Pulsar said:
Firstly, I'd just like to say that I understand and that I empathize. This game can be incredibly taxing on your mental health, I'm sure a lot of people here can relate to that, myself included.
Ultimately, BHVR has shown very little interest in even looking at post-game toxicity, let alone in-game toxicity. Unfortunately, I think that we're stuck with this sort of community dichotomy. Some really really wholesome people and a lot of really horrible people.
That being said, unfortunately, all you can do is take steps to protect yourself. I would advise quitting DBD if this sort of thing is consistent. You and your mental health should always come before a video game. I know that seems like you're being punished for someone else's actions and you are right. That's all you can do though, unfortunately.
The dichotomy sometimes is outright bizarre.
One game you'll get someone who DC's before the final hook because they were dumb enough to run into the basement area on temple mid-chase and kept trying to heal before leaving it, or the salty teabagger who complains that you refused to chase them (even after a 4k) because you went for the easier targets.
And then you get the really nice people in the same string of games who give unprompted congratulations on getting an adept, or sympathy when the DC blocked it. <_>
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344852#Comment_3344852
Tbh that’s the only use the perk has. It’s probably the worst designed perk in the game since it literally requires you to go down and have good map rng to even be useful
I get that it's meant to punish the Killer for trying to reach a distant hook, but mostly it just works out to "anyone who gets away does so because RNG and timing forced you to hump a rock or a doorway for three seconds". And then you go down them again and it's just stupid.
'Can't be hooked because reached a high spot away from a hook in time' is just bad design from the other end, too. "Unhookable because you can hold W" is not an expression of any sort of skill or cleverness, and it means the perk does nothing but encourage slugging. Which is supposed to be bad.
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@Mooks said:
Boil over is still being used? With which map offerings? (I will guess it’s only on sabo swf where it still has value right?)
Eyrie (even though the hook spawns kind of help, the doors suck), Ormond, Macmillan gambling for Ironworks occasionally... mostly Eyrie and Ormond for that specific thing, though.
And more than enough people bringing the perk seemingly only for the purpose of being INCREDIBLY ANNOYING.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344595#Comment_3344595
dredge can hit 10 or 11 if you count his nightfall as a debuff.
Nightfall isn't a debuff, it makes Dredge Undetectable. Also changes the view distance, but it's not an effect applied to anyone. Since it also applies to Dredge, I don't think it's a debuff per se. xD
So, there's the add on that gives mangled, haemorrhage, and blindness. Then either exposed or exhausted. That's four off the power.
But can you get six more off perks once you have mangled and haemorrhage at the same time? Sloppy or Blood Echo give two effects but you already have at least one of them. Ditto for Fearmonger. Plaything does Cursed and Oblivious. Hindered isn't accessible by perk. So... That's six. Can get the other of broken/exposed via perk. Seven. Not sure if Deep Wound is directly accessible, but Terminus gives Broken. I think Dredge tops out at 9 if you then add Eruption?
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@Xendritch said:
Nemesis-10
T-Virus: Contaminated
Tentacle Strike: Hindered
Iri Badge: Exposed
NE-a Parasite: Oblivious
Third Seal: Cursed and Blindness
Sloppy: Mangled and Hemorrhage
Eruption: Incapacitated
Terminus: Broken
Hmmm, but you can't do that simultaneously. Badge only triggers on cleansing, which removes contaminated and hindered will have worn off by then.
So, I think it's Wesker (also 10): Infected, Blinded, Hindered, Exposed, Haemorrhage, Mangled, Oblivious, Cursed, Incapacitated, and Broken. 11 if you hit a Survivor with Endurance and trigger Deep Wound.
Which requires the somewhat bizarre scenario of someone hitting max infection while already injured from an M1 after the last gen has completed and right after an eruption proc, but it's theoretically possible. A little less fiddly if Eruption is swapped for Fearmonger (Exhausted applied to the Survivor rather than waiting for them to use it) and will still hold after the next patch. And leaves an addon free.
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Anyway, to count Wesker's lot:
Hindered (max infection); Blinded (Maiden medallion max infection); Exposed (Iri Uroboros Vial max infection); Haemorrhage and Mangled (Sloppy Butcher); Oblivious (Plaything); Incapacitated (Eruption); and Broken (Terminus). Add deep wound for actually hitting a survivor with endurance too.
So, that's 8, 9 if we count the 'everyone can trigger that' one. Changing out Eruption for Fearmonger (Exhaustion and Blindness) also lets you do it with one less addon. And, strictly speaking, you could argue the infection itself is a debuff (max infection lets his power instagrab).
Edit: Forgot plaything also triggers cursed.
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I think Wesker can get up there too.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344029#Comment_3344029
Yes, they have their uses, but the requirements and limitations are the problem.
If i want exponential, i will take unbreakable
If i want shadow step, i will take distortion or lucky break
If i want dar theory, i should probably stop playing because i must have gotten mental damage
Boons as a mechanic need buffs, but COH is so strong and the fact that is not limited by the restrictions of the other boons (range and bringing the killer close to the boon) make this unlikely to happen.
The only one that needs some sort of buff is Dark Theory; the problem is the others have to share space with CoH, which wants to be placed in a completely different spot.
The boons having to be near the Killer is good! Otherwise the entire concept of the Killer taking time to snuff it as a counter makes no sense. And it also means that you don't get "person brings perk, three other people also benefit at no risk or cost".
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Exponential has its uses (but unhookable sabo builds are the worst thing to play against). And Shadow Step has niche applications.
Dark Theory is the pointless one... but if a non-durational speed boost was any stronger, then there'd be big problems.
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This'd be a downgrade for me. It doesn't fit him.
More fun to run Iri vial and get the "I shall unleash Uroborus!" one. :p
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Huh, that's a neat change. Would actually be a more useful effect for Furin than the pointlessness it's been saddled with. I dunno, keep it and stick on some downside.
After all, it does provide you with some information: she's on the other side of an obstacle.
Definitely not killswitch-worthy, though. Seriously? Yeah, yeah, her killrate's probably going to go up as people learn how to use it (and then down a bit as Survivors play more cautious) until there's a patch, but "unintended interaction makes a Killer somewhat stronger" has never so far been a reason to disable them.
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@jajay119 said:
This is so overdramatic.
Literally no one has asked for a nerf to any of those perks. The fact that survivors have called for a nerf to Eruption before any of the big hitters is actually proof they won't be nerfed.
Some people really need to put their toys back in the pram.
I'm sure someone has. It's not literally nobody, it just hasn't been a big outcry yet.
I know that I've seen people wanting CoB nerfs just because it synergises with eruption by also being a kick perk.
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I'm sure they'll change PR to current progress and rework any DMS interactions too, just because of usage rates and people not having another regression perk to complain about.
I'm not optimistic that people won't swap to complaining about that.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342957#Comment_3342957
What other “bugs”?
You'd hope "collision makes no sense". Things like the tiny bushes in Eyrie having perfect consistent collision, and then half the rest of the map being covered in grease.