RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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Just sort of
Incidentally did it on Nemesis right after posting this. Timing, right? Lol.
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@maschinen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351079#Comment_3351079
He means guards not walking through pallets during a chase but of course this problem also makes me not want to play knight. I understood why they did that because of losing your power permanently if you activate your power at quick successions and then hearing that loud sound effect for the rest of your match. I just hoped for an alternative solution than some bandaid fix that we have now.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351081#Comment_3351081
Oh so that's what my guard is doing all the time. Now I understand why my guard never reaches their target.
No, I knew what he means, I meant I have no clue what they broke.
I just wanted to note that they also broke his usability in fixing a major bug.
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@maschinen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351067#Comment_3351067
It worked before? How did they break it? 😆😆
No clue.
But their fix to him losing his power was 'stop him from using it near walls', which is why you have to back up to break pallets.
In fixing something game-breaking (no power and constant noise), he got about ten times more jank to control.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350774#Comment_3350774
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350777#Comment_3350777
Yeah, thats why you need to do what the Testing is, We have no idea if the version we are playing with isnt already outdated from their internal build. People need to relax imo.
That's asking people to ignore nearly every previous PTB, and all the recent ones. Knight got some add-on changes. Wesker got a hitbox fix. Nothing big or functionally different. What we get in the PTB is within margin of error of the actual release.
It was only, what, Ghostface that actually got a rework from the PTB? And then Twins went from buggy to... still buggy.
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@aricidius said:
Completely agree. For those of us who are using controllers and have accessibility issues it doesn't work. We need an option because as it stands I can't wiggle at all so a key part of survivability is gone.
... button mashing is more accessible than timed button pushing that's a fundamental part of ordinary gameplay?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350678#Comment_3350678
But thats not a PTB, its a closed test build. Like they do Internally.
And? I'm not saying they should've done a half-finished PTB, I'm saying that their closed testing is obviously not up to par, given how many really obvious things they're missing. It doesn't need to be full public testing, they just need to get a little more external input before finalising something and pushing it out the door.
Obvious things like "Survivors shouldn't be told they're being tracked" would easily be picked up if they could get a dozen trusted and reasonably skilled players to try it out and give input.
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Wouldn't want any of the new stuff at all.
It's mostly weird we didn't get Kirsty. Although, given the whole 'Pinhead showed up of his own accord' nature of it, I suppose it makes sense.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350654#Comment_3350654
Yes, that is what testing is.
But it's not the sort of testing I'm saying they should have done. This is 'test our Release Candidate product and do free QC', I'm saying they really ought to have tried to rope in trustworthy players--it's not like they don't have access to them ffs--way earlier in the power design process. Even if they weren't willing to significantly change from this idea, all the massive issues would have been caught straight away.
And it would also give the devs exposure to how the public will play their power before it hits the PTB.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350057#Comment_3350057
Testing is what the PTB is for my duderino.
We all know the PTB is only used the catch egregious bugs and do some very minor number tweaks.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350354#Comment_3350354
How can I use my eyes and hears when I can't see him because for someone reason a blur basically can blend in with dark maps and he doesn't make any noise I seriously can't hear him even with headphones.
... either your headphones are broken or your ears are. Dude's a snarly grunty mess.
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Residual Manifest is bad enough, we don't need more perks that start giving Killers status ailments.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350333#Comment_3350333
While wristblades are a fairly iconic weapon to the Predator, they're not the only weapons the Predator has used, and they also haven't shown any hesitance about doubling up on weapon types.
And... the weapon is about where the similarities between her and the Predator end, mechanically speaking.
Wraith has more in common with the Predator, mechanically, than she does.
A Predator character would likely incorporate invisibility somehow. Or a lock-on mechanic. Like say being out in the open against the Predator allows them to lock on to you with their laser sight and then fire their shoulder cannon, or perhaps the homing arrow from Prey. That would make the counterplay to try to break line of sight with him as much as possible, similar to Nurse.
A Predator character would not involve tracking drones, that doesn't make any sense, it's not from any of the movies.
Have you seen what they gave Freddy?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350312#Comment_3350312
No problem in another inspired chapter. However, does that mean no chances for a Predator chapter in the future anymore?
They should have kept the ideas in the vault for Predator
I mean, we did get Billy's inspiration, so it's not like having the original show up if there's something inspired by it.
And if the copy is crappy, at least it would spare the original that particular indignity.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350033#Comment_3350033
"This character is one of the most complex in the whole roster"
Blatantly false.
The power is nothing more than a mobile version of starstruck on a timer with tracking and a simon says minigame attached to it. There is no skill ceiling, no learning curve outside of "where do i put the thing". Comparing Skull Merchant to Killers like Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Huntress is a huge disservice and I seriously hope nobody thinks that this mess of a power comes anywhere close to being "mechanically complex"
Also the secondary argument of "but the power has lots of things!!!". Making a needlessly complicated power does not make it deep and complex to use.
The radar could've easily been killer instinct. There is NO difference between killer instinct and pulling up an ipad to look at white dots.
The implementation and number of moving parts added is quite complex. The gameplay isn't.
The point of that tweet I understand--this isn't something BHVR shunted out at the last minute. They put a lot of work into it. The gameplay, however, is simplistic.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350099#Comment_3350099
So it's not CoH that's the issue, because without it, people would be running much more efficient heals.
Also...
Which is a problem, just for inherently transforming a situation which is 3 survs off gens (injured, healing, chased) into 2 survs off gens
How does that work, exactly? Why is the injured person not on a gen? Unless you meant he injured person is currently being healed, in which case, there's not much difference between the two. Either way, survivors lose roughly the same amount of seconds, not counting the set-up and travel times.
Because average-case mutual healing doesn't have the injured surv sat on the gen? Seems to happen a lot less. Which gets two people off generators. And because the time inefficiencies factor in more than once (because we have two people), that's better for the Killer.
Especially if they're able to end their chase before the two people get back on generators.
So it's not CoH that's the issue, because without it, people would be running much more efficient heals.
It's still an issue, because the one perk on the team can enable some truly ridiculous gen pressure instead, at the cost of not having optimal self healing. Two facets of the same problem.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348655#Comment_3348655
Hold on, what's that scenario look like without CoH though? Where killers can build pressure without leaving gens?
Because that, to me, sounds like a loss/loss on the survivor side. Either you don't do gens and get timed out, or you try to clear a gen and get downed.
Also, what's to stop these teams from achieving similar with other, less conspicuous perks? One guy with Botany can achieve CoH speeds.
When people don't run CoH, it's super easy nowadays to run loaded medkits that never run out.
CoH just enables things like multiple BNP without losing the 'everyone can self heal fast' problem. Which is a problem, just for inherently transforming a situation which is 3 survs off gens (injured, healing, chased) into 2 survs off gens, vastly reducing the slowdown effect and meaning there's a lot less of people risking doing gens injured because they can't go get the heal (obviously, SWF and good players are way more likely to go get the healing in that situation, but it's still a thing).
It probably doesn't help that CoH's nerfs were followed by the Bloodweb rework, so we went from a game where great medkit stacking was occasional to being a thing that's pretty easy to do (if people weren't so flashlight obsessed). And very little slow self care use that eats a perk.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350073#Comment_3350073
See this is fair criticism. I take no issue with this, and I agree with all of this except the last bit (leaving the bit below the quote for now). Doc gets pings, Merchant gets perfect info, as limited as it is. Nevertheless, I've seen some people on twitter already making creative plays with her, which tells me there's plenty to be discovered about her.
I'm not saying there aren't similarities, but tell me why she can't just be BHVR's take on Predator? What's the crime in her not being the Predator?
Perfect info that slows you down, and gets advertised to Survivors for some truly bonkers reason. It can't be used around tiles and obstructs your view, in which regard only her aura-reading add-on is great, and the claw traps are completely potato. And, really, the problem in contrast with Doctor is that whilst he mostly gets info, he can also deny some actions and get some slowdown. SM has stealth tied to standing in a freaking light show, and the least practical Killer power for applying Exposed.
People can and will make creative plays, but it all loops round to being too passive and clunky. It's also a Killer power that bizarrely declines in utility as your game awareness goes up--because you have to set up your info gathering early, you already need to guess where people are going to be. <_>
I'm not saying there aren't similarities, but tell me why she can't just be BHVR's take on Predator? What's the crime in her not being the Predator?
I mean, if she's BHVR's take on Predator, it feels like it misses a lot of what made that appealing. The brutality, the sheer feeling of unstoppability, the presence and inhumanity of it. And the very active danger when it's using its tech.
She's a rich psychopath with a sexy walk animation, whose last kill before being yoinked to the Entity's realm was nearly foiled by a guy flying a kite (or arguably was foiled, given how things turned out).
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350036#Comment_3350036
I mean, yeah, but I'm getting very tired of the vast majority of the complaints being nonsensical, hypocritical, completely false or just made-up.
Even if they reused Nemmy's animation, that's still a frankly stupid complaint. Almost every killer released upto Nemesis himself reuses breaking animations. It's a non-issue.
The people saying they reused Trickster's face are on something, 'cause that's a yikes.
Some say she looks bad because she looks like a comic book villain. Her lore literally states she's reenacting a killer from her father's manga.
Yeah, the connection with Predator is easily made. But how are drones related to Predator? Wraith, of all killers, does the Predator schtick way more accurately. It's just her weapon and colour scheme. That's it. And it's not like we don't have original killers that are homages to IP's. The OG trio, Legion, Spirit to a lesser degree.
Yeah, she's weak. Not a single soul is claiming she isn't. But can we please stop pretending like we already know every trick in the book regarding how to use hers? It hasn't even been a week.
It hasn't been a week, but for all the implementation complexity, the utilisation complexity is very low. Her drones are low number, have a big cooldown, can't be close, are highly visible, and have a massive delay on activation (and this, the delay before stealth starts, and the visibility, really neuter its utility). Furthermore, she's not introducing anything on a gameplay front that isn't familiar with experience with existing Killers.
All it boils down to is: can you get LoS with the drone for 10s by dropping it? If not, it's info, and her addons don't really add much except giving her a little speed bump or actual aura reading. If you can't use this to mindgame the loop, then it does nothing. If the Survivor's not pinched in, they'll just go to the next tile. if they're injured, it does nothing..
And as area denial, 'info on where Survivors are' is not a new concept. You just put it where they're going to go to find that out, and hope they're daft enough to get exposed.
Yeah, the connection with Predator is easily made. But how are drones related to Predator? Wraith, of all killers, does the Predator schtick way more accurately. It's just her weapon and colour scheme. That's it. And it's not like we don't have original killers that are homages to IP's. The OG trio, Legion, Spirit to a lesser degree.
She utilises high tech toys (including advanced stealth) in order to hunt down human game and kills them by shanking 'em with a wrist-mounted claw. Also has a mask, her background places her in a jungle setting, and her mori is exactly appropriate for a 7' tall alien stealth monster.
The similarities are quite notable, even if the implementation wouldn't be identical.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350052#Comment_3350052
Its strongly encouraged by some killer player though, only patrolling the 3 closest gen and then saying survivors managed to 3 gen themselves, when it was because killer refused to leave the 3 closest gen from the start
It can also occur by accident--if Survivors complete some relatively central gens and divide them into two groups, there's no point chasing in one half of the map, since you don't have the mobility. So you chase whoever's in one half, and by the end of the game, that's secured a 3gen without even thinking much about it.
It looks like a concerted effort, but really, it's just not going on hopeless chases on the other end of a map.
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All that suggests is that BHVR committed too hard on this idea without actually soliciting sufficient feedback and testing first.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350035#Comment_3350035
In practice almost every knight game was 3 gen holder
TBF, when I play Knight, I try not to do it but somehow Survivors manage to regularly 3gen themselves of their own accord. It's just bizarre to watch.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349221#Comment_3349221
your list of aesthetics are blatantly false, and subjective.
Her face:
https://twitter.com/tiger_was_alone/status/1626935556503490561?s=20
Her wall break is quite obviously not Nemesis'. I'm sorry but this is hilariously obvious from the survivor PoV.
Her walk is too slow. It's not out of place, it's too slow, so that it looks she's gliding.
Criticism is fine, but please make it based on reality.
Hmm, the wall break looked like Nemmy's from the Killer perspective.
It's entirely probable that they're using different animations. Remember, Bubba's first person anims look nothing like the third person ones.
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@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
weird how no one was complaining about knight when his power is arguably worse than skull womans
It offers more to do and can be used to regularly get hits. As far as powers go, it's got vastly more utility.
Hell, it even gives information better because now you're not slowed much to use it and you can surprise people.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349850#Comment_3349850
She doesnt necessarily hunt people for sport tho, she does it for financial gain.
As for Spirit you do have valid points, but it is pretty safe to say she does take inspiration from the movies.
The hunting and killing is definitely for sport, though. The financial gain is just target selection. After all, she knows how to do the financial takeover without murdering the opposition, she wants to murder the opposition.
Mmm, and almost any vampire would take inspiration somehow from a form of Dracula--it's pretty unavoidable, he's so heavily entwined with the idea. It doesn't mean that they'd be a version thereof, or that Spirit is a take on Sadako.
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@Espshiva said:
So I would consider myself a fairly decent survivor, but I have recently found that it is almost impossible for you to break out of a struggle anymore, I run a fairly decent build, boil over, dead hard, tenacity, and flip-flop. I hit the great skill checks on boil roughly 95-100% of the time, try to get myself as far from a hook as possible when in a chase and also try to get up high for the bonus 33% from the drop, I also run oaks (when I have them) to distance the hooks, and I have been getting hooked almost everytime with or without the killer running iron grasp, is it something I'm doing wrong or my team mates, or is anyone else experiencing this also?
Nope, none at all. You can stop running boil over now.
(But really, as everyone's said, the point isn't to have reliable escapes, running full wiggle builds is a meme play, not practical. Boil Over is mostly just stupid annoying to deal with.)
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349779#Comment_3349779
The only way to fix these tactics is to make the other ones viable.
Flatly untrue.
First of all, these tactics aren't always driven by viability. You and I and everyone else on these forums know damn well that it's not just viability that motivates these tactics. Killers will do it precisely because it sours the game for everyone else. That's not fixed by just buffing killers.
Secondly, who gauges how 'viable' these tactics are? The killer. Which means that yes, you could try to make the other tactics more viable, but the killer can just drop the bar and say 'No, still not viable enough' and go straight back to camping/tunnelling. This is actually a current issue too, where virtually any change the devs make will be followed up with an 'I'm gonna camp and tunnel now' thread.
Thirdly, the other tactics wouldn't just need to be 'viable', they'd need to outperform. And with tunnelling being objectively the best way to play, that would mean that the competing tactics would need to be buffed to incredibly oppressive levels.
The only way to fix these tactics is to target them with tailored nerfs until they're No Mither-tier.
People doing things just because they're unfun for everyone else isn't a Killer exclusive problem, and it's not like tunnelling is the only unfun experience that overlaps with optimal gameplay.
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Wesker, probably.
Pinhead's addons below purple basically don't serve much purpose; you take them because there's nothing else much to do. They're minor at best, pointless on average, harmful at worst.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349825#Comment_3349825
Already covered why you're misrepresenting the lore, so we won't delve any deeper into that.
For the rest of this, let's see here... Aesthetically, she's obviously fine. Everything about her fits into DBD just fine, and the only even questionable element from that framing would be the bedazzled mask- which, of course, fits her as a character, and since it's hardly the most ostentatious thing killers have access to with cosmetics and such, it's clearly not a problem. It's perfectly reasonable for her not to be to anyone's specific tastes, of course, but we must be careful not to conflate "this isn't to my tastes" with "this is trash".
For the gameplay, the one thing you've been right on so far is that she's weak. What her power is meant to do is obviously fine, it'd be a perfectly serviceable power - traps that give you tracking, undetectable, and a little bit of pressure to force survivors to deal with the traps aren't a broken concept, after all, in fact it's quite refreshing to have a little variety without getting another chase-oriented power again. She is, though, too weak; the stealth isn't enough, the tracking is a little inconsistent, and the power gives too much info to survivors. These are all, of course, things that can (and some of them at least assuredly will) be fixed between PTB and live, and it is of course not something that makes this chapter in particular trash.
A lot of PTBs have weak killers, some of them weaker than the Skull Merchant. Remember PTB Trickster?
As for her elements not meshing, I gotta say that this is the complaint I understand the least. I somewhat understanding thinking her mask is a little out of place, but the rest of her pretty obviously works? High tech stalker utilising her obscene wealth to invest in better tracking technology, using drones she customised based on something she regards fondly. That works perfectly, there's nothing clashing about it? I think people are really tripped up by the background detail that she drew some visual inspiration from her father's manga, and think it's a bigger element of her concept than it actually is. The name, too, is just a reach of a complaint. Is it a problem now for killers to have flashy names that rely more on their story/appearance than their actual power? We're gonna have to go back and change quite a few of the ones we already have, in that case.
It's fine to just not like her. I don't understand the urge to justify that by making it out to be a case of objective low quality. Isn't it enough to just say "I personally really don't like her"?
The manga thing is like 1/3 to 1/2 of the writeup. The actual serial killing part is almost a footnote in comparison to that, it's so weirdly written.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349839#Comment_3349839
Predator didn't invent drones either
The whole claw thing and hunting people for sport are big clues, though. Plus the mori.
Spirit's just a take on an onryo in general. It'd be like saying any vampire is specifically a take on Dracula, even though it's a general type of monster of which there's a particularly famous example.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349737#Comment_3349737
A lot of people care because not everyone wants mobility or chase power in a killer. She isn’t even meant to do that anyway. It’s sad how many of you are so used to having insane amounts of power in chase, that when a new killer is released that is finally something other than chase or mobility you guys have a meltdown.
I want a power that doesn't advertise itself in use, that isn't inferior to just having aura reading perks on anybody else, and that doesn't actively require the Survivors to play along to let me get any value. I don't want to camp a 3gen from the outset, and be constantly stuck with "No, you can't deploy here, it's too close to another power even though their radii don't overlap at all".
I would like to have a little something to play around with in chase, because another M1 Killer who stops having anything once Survivors move away from this area to a loop, but whether that's making deploying the drones more viable or what is fine.
Or, I want a power that I can actively use, not one that Survivors have to screw up to allow.
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I think the point where you're asking if I want to reform the entire justice system (with the added bonus of not specifying which country) clearly marks the end of the possibility for anything productive. This is a single-purpose forum, the state of political systems in the world is way out of scope.
You keep bringing up fallacies and logical contradictions, but your own posts resemble nothing less than a gish gallop. Well, a close relative in forum discussions I refuse to have anything to do with any more; responding to every point in a post with multiple points until it's impossible to follow.
And no, I'm not inconsistent. You ban people for cheating in a game, not for being a high risk of cheating based on prior actions. I am willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to very closely related games, but that's it. The endless "but what about" does not change that answer.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349347#Comment_3349347
Yes. I am aware. This is my proposal. Ideally, a ban for cheating would extend to every online game. There would be an appeals process. There would be some time limit at which the ban expires.
Basically, you cheat in a game you are permanently banned from it. You are also banned from other online games for a year.
The possibility of reform is small. They have a year to get their act together. They should use this time wisely.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349353#Comment_3349353
The functionality is provided by the API. It is associated with AppID. They made the system. They could make it so game bans are specific to the game. But they didn't. Not even for newer games, not just 15+ year old games. This is disingenuous.
We know it's a possibility, because it is already being done by other devs.
Their stated position is not line with what you are saying. You are against cross game bans period. You have not once expressed support for it. You have stated that nothing would change your mind. By all available evidence, you are against this.
I notice you once again failed to answer any of my questions. Good job, as that would point out the contradictions in what you are saying.
Also, it appears you didn't read the end of the article. The information I included is taken directly from this section which talks about the user. What is your point and why did you include this? Why don't you read the article?
Q: How does a VAC ban or Game Ban impact the user?
A: When a user is banned via either one of our anti-cheat services, the following happens:
- The account cannot join secure servers for the AppIDs they are banned.
- The ban is publicly displayed on their Steam Community profile.
- The account can no longer share VAC enabled games.
- If the user is borrowing the game via Family Library Sharing, the ban is also applied to the actual owner of the game.
Please answer my questions. I am attempting to engage with you in good faith. Your outright refusal to answer any of my questions, accuse me of asking irrelevant questions with no explanation, and general misconstruing or outright falsehoods is annoying and derailing the discussion.
EDIT: Since it always seem to come to this, answer these questions explictly if you want me to take you seriously.
Should a ban in Unreal Engine be applied to all other Unreal Engine games? What if they are from the same company and are in the same genre?
If the answer is yes to either you contradict yourself. What is the crux of the contradiction? Is it something I am missing?
If the answer is no to either you don't agree with Valve. Why do you keep bringing this up? Is this some sort of appeal to authority? Why is Valve an authority?
Ah, I thought you were referring to this part:
Both VAC and Game Ban enabled games can either be bought for your own account, or gifted immediately. If you directly gift a game to someone who gets permanently banned, you won’t be able to gift that game again.
Yes, they stop you from sharing any VAC game if you have a VAC ban. That isn't a ban from playing them, it's a blatantly obvious fix for people trying to use shared games to avoid getting banned while cheating again (also the reverse family sharing thing)
Should a ban in Unreal Engine be applied to all other Unreal Engine games? What if they are from the same company and are in the same genre?
No, maybe, probably yes if it's the same series.
The functionality is provided by the API. It is associated with AppID. They made the system. They could make it so game bans are specific to the game. But they didn't. Not even for newer games, not just 15+ year old games. This is disingenuous.
Since the AppID is part of the HTTP request for VAC status, it seems that there's some game-specific component going on. But the docs are pretty barebones, it's kind of annoying to tell. Does suggest they're not being lazy, although that makes it anyone's guess why their cross-game bans are restricted by engine. Could be they're not using the API properly, would not be the laziest thing I've seen developed.
Basically, you cheat in a game you are permanently banned from it. You are also banned from other online games for a year.
It's really good you're not in charge of anything related to game infrastructure, because that's ridiculously draconian. "You cheat in one game, you can't do multiplayer anything for a year and we have to institute some centralised appeals process". Disproportionate response, much?
Which of course excludes false positives and every form of hacking or impersonation, because that leads to "no, you now need to go through a bureaucratic process to play minecraft on a construction server because your system's RGB software upset an FPS game".
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349314#Comment_3349314
Goodness. Moving the goal post.
Cross game bans on the same engine are still..... cross game bans. So no, Valve doesn't support you opinion about cross game bans. They outright stated they do cross game bans.
Do you think a ban from an Unreal Engine game should be applied to all Unreal Engine games? What about Unity? What about other engines? If the answer is no you are being inconsistent and don't actually agree with Valve. If the answer is yes, well then you contradict yourself.
I expect your next move will be a further qualification and moving of the goal post. Well, they support my idea that cross game bans should be only acceptable if they are in the same engine, the same company, and the same genre! Which really isn't your idea anyway as you've been saying that no cross game bans should be acceptable and only bans that occur during the specific game should be allowed. I'm not sure how you even came to the conclusion that Valve agrees with you anyway, seeing as how you never mentioned support for cross game bans and seem to be vehemently against it. After all, nothing will change you mind as you've directly stated.
If you read the rest of article that was linked you would see that there are in fact negative global consequences for receiving a VAC ban. You can no longer share VAC games. The article doesn't say this is associated with AppID so it's probably all VAC games that are unsharable. This is a global VAC banlist from sharing.
You're right, Valve does say that they shouldn't do this. Except there are community servers that do exactly this. Valve knows this and has done nothing to remove the ability of the community servers to take advantage of the VAC ban list. It is viewed more of recommendation than a rule, so the question is why? Clearly, cross game bans do not bother them because they engage in it themselves.
It is likely that this is a financial consideration by them. They have their own platform from which they sell games. Being VAC banned once and losing access to all online games in the library would likely be a problem for them would likely create financial issues.
Finally, they say "no you shouldn't do this" yet do it themselves. Isn't that contradictory? What is your point? That they agree with you? You are making less and less sense as this goes on.
No, I think Valve was just lazy about implementation in their own games and they don't want to go back to 15+ year old titles to sort them out individually. Since they only work on things they want to, more or less, it ain't happening.
The shared bans are in things similar enough (note that it isn't ban on one Valve game = on all Valve games, the shared engine is key) it's likely due to shared codebase as much as a design choice, and they outright say to not do cross-game bans or bans based on VAC status. Are they hypocritical? Maybe. Doesn't matter, their stated position is in line with what I was saying.
If you read the rest of article that was linked you would see that there are in fact negative global consequences for receiving a VAC ban. You can no longer share VAC games. The article doesn't say this is associated with AppID so it's probably all VAC games that are unsharable. This is a global VAC banlist from sharing.
This is a page directed at partners, not users. I think that's saying that if you gift someone a free game copy (for reviews or whatever) and they get a VAC ban, you're not allowed to gift games to people again. Nothing about user restrictions.
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@crogers271 said:
On the question of whether it is legal - from the End User Agreement
Modify any part of the BHVR Services that BHVR does not specifically authorize you to modify.
You connected to an account that did that. Further down the EULA
BHVR reserves the right...to prevent your use and of any and all BHVR services if your Access...violates these rules of conduct.
So yeah, you agreed to it, you violated it. You can argue the violation was minor (they won't care) or that it was accidental (they might), but they definitely can ban you.
There is an appeal process I believe, you can try that.
Many EULAs aren't legally enforceable, oddly enough. See, they have this bad habit of only presenting themselves after purchase--i.e. after the completion of a contract--and trying to establish terms of use then.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349269#Comment_3349269
Except they literally do cross game bans as the previous person mentioned. Why are you so consistently wrong?
Yeah, cross-game bans on the same engine. So, closely related games, by the same company, and sometimes just variations on the same game (it's also a list of basically FPS's to boot)
They don't think it's appropriate for companies to be banning a player from Shogun 2 Total War (although I thought servers for that shut down, it apparently used VAC? Huh, never knew) for cheating in Counter Strike, or from MORDHAU for Dark Messiah of Might and Magic†. VAC is not meant to be a global banlist where cheating in one game bans you from a hundred others. Or more, since DbD does not implement VAC, yet this would have them acquire that data for it.
And, you know, the fact the documentation also literally says 'no you shouldn't do this'.
given that the related bans are all games running on the same engine, I give it 50-50 odds they're using the same code for anti-cheat and nobody at Valve really felt like changing them to distinguish the bans by game, given how loose their development ethos is.
† ######### is that doing with VAC?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349293#Comment_3349293
Well, she is just a serial killer. They all have some superficial motivation- hers started with furthering her corporate agenda, and then she just straightforwardly enjoyed it and sought a challenge from it.
I think the manga stuff really tripped a lot of people up. Far as I can tell, that's there for two reasons- first just to give her a little more flavour, a bit of personality in that she designed her equipment around something she remembers her father by, and second to sort of acknowledge and play off the fact that manga's a big thing in Brazil. It's not a core part of her character, just a neat detail in her lore.
I do see parts of where you're coming from, though, I've always found the way these lore things are written to be kind of weirdly paced. I don't think this one's any worse than the norm, but it is like, a thing that tends to be true of DBD's lore segments.
Personally, I just think it feels inconsistent, like they tried to splice three separate concepts into one. They wanted the evil millionaire hunter, someone leaning into their father's fiction, and a tech-focused drown user...
But they aren't really supporting one another at all. The second one is barely relevant flavour, and the wealth has nothing to do with tech businesses or using said wealth for R&D for more toys. By all implications she just bought the stuff she used more than anything. It's all very... inconsistent.
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Looks like Valve shares my opinion on when banning is appropriate.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349134#Comment_3349134
Visuals are obviously fine (unless we're talking about things like the drone radius visuals, which may be an issue but isn't a giant fix), numbers just need tweaking, and I'm not sure what you mean by 'secondary effects' that isn't covered by number tweaking.
A good start would be Pixel Bush's video suggesting changes, he goes over some pretty solid ideas like buffing the hell out of her stealth and giving her a few other little tweaks. Something like what he goes over would be a fantastic start and give her a clear niche.
Drone radius visuals, and whether it's even a good idea to make the tracking component reliant on holding a secondary button to view (on top of, at minimum, deploy and check tracker being on the wrong keys given which one you need to hold down and check); all the numbers might need some changing (not one or two); whether the drones should need visuals if it's supposed to be an area effect; whether the claw traps should actually do something else if they're going to have such a meagre duration and go away on hook; a return of a plague of underwhelming add-ons which seem geared to not address much of the kit's downsides...
At the least, that's verging on a rework, especially if you want to move her to less of a "my power does something only when Survivor's make a huge goof or ignore it" type thing to actively extracting value and making disabling the drones more attractive outside of being trapped in a 3gen, but also actually have a downside.
The active info it gives isn't even that great compared to most aura reading effects, and the whole 'if you did that I now have an idea where you must be because you did that'.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349135#Comment_3349135
Admittedly, not a huge fan of that myself, yeah.
I think it's out of sync with the actual step for accurate swaying (no matter how exaggerated).
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349108#Comment_3349108
The only slight sticking point with this take is that this isn't a bad product, though.
Like, what's actually bad about it? The killer's weak? A lot of killers have had bad PTBs, this is no exception. Some of the perks are lacklustre? They can't all be winners, and again, that's not unique. Everything else is personal taste.
Side note, there is definitely an element of expectations running amok. That's mostly the specific complaint that she isn't a cyborg/robot, though.
Objectively, the Killer's walk cycle is bad. Hips don't move like that. 😋
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349103#Comment_3349103
She's boring to play because of her current balance, I genuinely did not think this was a difficult concept.
Her core concept obviously works. Nobody bitches about Doctor being catastrophically trash in how he's designed at his core, because his information is well balanced and paired with well balanced supporting mechanics like his Madness tiers. There is nothing, and I mean literally nothing, stopping Skull Merchant from being rebalanced to be in the same spot- just obviously with different supporting mechanics.
I'm less sure on the concept working.
If we pare it back to 'traps areas for info+effect on survivors in area, survivors can disable and get [STATUS]', maybe. But that doesn't mean her issues are simply a matter of balance. To be a good release, we're talking a big rework on visuals, numbers, secondary effects, an add-on pass, and there's still the open question of whether having something a little bit more, even if it's something small like a lunge change, would be warranted with a power that has such passive effects.
The vague outline is okay, but the concept that's actually been implemented needs a rethink.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348960#Comment_3348960
I don't hate wesker or blight per se but I've played blight like 3 times since release and wesker remains the only killer I have never bought. I just find them incredibly boring and I don't understand why they get put up on this pedestal like they're the best killers ever designed.
I don't agree there's no skill with her power there's no mechanical skill sure but other types of skills exist but she rewards planning and game sense and that's what I love. The comparison I'd make is like in overwatch where everyone says a character like winston takes no skill cuz they autoaim when most people couldn't get out of gold with him because they haven't developed game sense enough to understand how to best use them. Mechanics is not the beginning and end to skills in gaming like most people think.
Their powers have mechanical skill to master, on top of the other skills common to all Killers, and their effectiveness is heavily under the control of the Killer player. Before addons get into it (especially in Blight's case), the powers themselves are decently strong but not impossibly broken, and have applications on a wide variety of maps and tiles. Survivors need to learn how to counter them specifically, but at least there is counterplay beyond holding W away from the tile. And because they work so effectively against said holding W, chases can't be extended for 30s just brainlessly waiting on both sides--they have to be actively participated in.
I think that's basically it. They're not hopelessly weak, they've got plenty to learn that's specific to them, and they offer ways for Survivors to play around it without totally shutting the power down.
And, obviously, any Killer with mobility is better designed as long as maps continue to be huge and difficult to traverse quickly.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348954#Comment_3348954
Nothing about those things are complicated. A year long timer on a VAC ban is a timestamp comparison. One line of code, maybe a few more if you need to need to get the timestamps through an API or something. An appeals process already exists......
Don't tell me what to or not to advocate for. To be completely honest, it seems like you are in bad faith. I've asked you several times now what percentage of false positives would be acceptable for you even though you refuse to answer. In fact I've asked you several questions which you've neglected. You've already admitted you won't change your mind which is okay but these fallacious arguments, attacks on my arguments without explanation, omitted relevant things I've said, and generally poor attitude grows tiresome. If you're going to tell people to not be a jerk you should tell by example and not engage with others in this manner.
To your final point, you don't think a single cheater will be deterred? Not a single instance of cheating will be prevented? We can argue about degree all day and I agree there is merit to the degree of relief this solution will provide but to say that you don't believe it will reduce the absolute amount of cheating seems to be another bad faith position. Surely at least one person will go find something else to do or at least one game will not have a cheater. And if it's one, there's probably a few more.
Anyway, you don't seem to be really engaging with what I have to say and ask you so this will be the end of our conversation.
I do think I understand your point thougj. False positives are bad, any degree is too much, and this won't catch enough cheaters. I agree with points 1 and 3.
Thank you for participating.
Because your posts are long. Way too long. And you keep asking questions that, bluntly, I don't think matter because the entire foundational idea is flawed. Going on about logical fallacies and bad faith is just a distraction from the point.
It's an overcomplicated solution that requires polling random information, implementing an extension to the ban system, and having yet another thing to add manual exceptions to... which has no guarantee of achieving anything, but has a definite guarantee of banning people that the game doesn't think are cheating and therefore might not be.
It. Doesn't. Help. It actively harms the game and doesn't even begin to address the real scale of cheating.
Like, this is why I haven't responded to your increasingly specific queries. None of them address the basic reasons at stake here: this proposal would ban people from this game whether or not they're actually cheating, and we'd have to take it on faith that it will have made a difference to the amount of cheating more than it banned people that aren't. Because it's impossible to measure how many cheaters are banned when you're specifically banning people we can't tell are cheating!
If you can't even measure if something has helped but you know it's going to do harm, you don't do it. It's a really simple conclusion.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348964#Comment_3348964
Those are all, in fact, balance related! Those things don't have to be true, because they're not part of her core design.
Her core design is that she punishes you for being in an area but the punishment is largely countered by running away, and the area can be disabled, at which point she has nothing but info.
I question how much that can actually be improved on.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348883#Comment_3348883
I was actually just thinking about this while testing some things with her (meaning all the visual information given to survivors) and I agree it's a bit much with all the harsh glowing lights. I think if they got rid of the orange light in active mode for the survivors and just made the drone slightly louder so aware survivors will find it while unaware ones will get exposed much easier that would be better. As well has letting survivors see the lock on meter, that needs to go away as well because it's like notifying survivors how much stalk GF or Myers has.
For the killer just let them see the orange circle on the ground so they can see the range like hag traps and that would be good as well cuz trying to see through it right now isn't great especially for people with color blindness.
Just to be clear I'm not saying SM is perfectly designed a ton of things need to be tweaked but I will defend her core concept as I find it tremendously interesting and fun to play with and I've waited ages for another trap killer to release. The killer won't be for most people and that's fine I haven't really clicked with the vast majority of killers released recently and that's okay, those killers weren't for me. It's just frustrating when we finally do get something appealing to players like me that enjoy setting up and having a plan come together and everyone wants to instantly destroy it.
The core concept, if you assume it's traps that give info and a punishment for hanging around the area, is okay, but I'm not sure how much of the implementation is salvageable. Like, if you kept the way drones turn on and off by default, the area, and the existence of claw traps, and reworked it from that starting point, it might be something?
Stuff like the claw traps giving Oblivious rather than the weirdly-overcomplicated reactivation situation, being in the drone area doing something aside from 'give exposed if it has LoS' (or addons focusing on debuffing and not a few scant buffs) to make it more actively useful... eh, they're ideas, I guess?
Because 'info and very limited stealth' don't go well with no mobility, and info is not something so hard to get it makes for a good core power.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348892#Comment_3348892
Buff the cooldown on throwing out drones or get rid of it entirely and make the drones activate faster, if you make them feel more fluid in chase camping gens with them seems less appealing.
Alternatively make the stealth last longer outside the zone so you don't have to feel like you need to stay inside to have your full power.
Currently you can place the drones next to each other close enough that you can make a path and keep your stealth up for a pretty long distance but that loses it's appeal when that path is glowing bright orange so survivors know the general area where you are.
I think the stealth would also needs its initiation cooldown reduced. It's already limited by location, and the drone being activated, why does it take a few seconds to kick in??? If a Survivor is there to notice anyway, it's not like it matters.
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@Science_Guy said:
Seems harsh. And maybe I just don't know how VAC works (I'm not a cheater, why would I), but can't someone just... make another account? Move to Epic? Most developers like it when people play their games so I don't think this idea is going anywhere.
Yup to both. They could make a new account or go to epic, and because it's not some hardware-level EAC ban, literally all you've done is punish the people that aren't cheating and vaguely annoy the cheaters. 🙄
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348872#Comment_3348872
Yes it is a premise. I use premises to support my conclusions. What is your point?
I made several other premises here. They include the general immutability of personallity traits, how culture influences behavior, and how cheating in online games is related to the two. Both of which are significantly resistant to change.
As for your transferability argument it seems we have finally made some progress. The transferability of cheating in one game to another is relevant because of what I mentioned in the above paragraph. Cheating in online games has antecedent causes, such causes are not very malleable, it is highly likely that such causes will be present when that individual plays other games, thusly it is highly likely that they will cheat in another game. I think this is fairly simple to follow and unless you ascribe to some sort of libertarian free will you will agree with me.
As for your answer to my question I am assuming you would say no you wouldn't ban the 100% likely cheaters. You didn't answer why and just said you don't do it because you don't do it. So I'll have to assume you are wary of false positives. What percentage of false positives, if any, are acceptable to you?
I am not sure the degree to which this would reduce cheating. I have no doubt that it will reduce the absolute amount. I agree that there are other avenues that cheaters can gain access to the game. It seems like a mobile authentication system could be implemented for people who don't want to play with cheaters or at least reduce the frequency at which they are encountered. This might actually be the best solution such that if you're banned oncd you need a new phone number and access to it to play again. It could be an opt in process so you are only paired with other mobile authenticated players.
I am not suggesting that they be banned because because of a hunch. It is based on data. I am not sure why you keep reducing the idea to this. If they want to appeal they can. If not ah well. At least there is a matter of recourse. I've also suggested the possibility of making only 1 year old bans relevant.
Is it rude? Yes. Who cares.
The way you started this conversation, engaged in logical fallacies, accused me of fallacious arguments with 0 explanation, committed "because I said so" arguments, and outright refused to change your mind indicating that you don't actually want to have a discussion but just argue is rude. But who cares? Why does it matter and what is your point?
EDIT: I am not sure what is complicated or what I am making complicated. The original proposition was if someone has a VAC ban they they can't play the game. Now I had to mention that they could appeal it which I thought would be self evident as you can appeal all bans. Finally, after some recommendations it's only year old VAC bans that apply. What is complicated about this?
You're overcomplicating it as soon as you jump to preventative measures that start requiring time exceptions and appeals processes (which will probably fail if you're putting in draconian policies like this) and solutions that would only get a minority of cheaters anyway. The simple solution is: keep banning people when they cheat.
And also don't advocate for a position of 'other people in this thread shouldn't be allowed to play the game so that I might have a lower chance of encountering cheaters'. That's just being a jerk.
I have no doubt that it will reduce the absolute amount.
I do. Because I have no expectation that people who're banned from playing and are actively cheating and haven't been actively detected will accept this rather than find a way around it, or start behaving worse and join the ranks of cheaters who're constantly making new accounts anyway.
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Yeah, I have no clue. I've seen it a bunch too; 4k, no DC, no moris or bleed outs... Ruthless.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348883#Comment_3348883
That would be a good start. But part of the problem with trap killers like Hag and Trapper is that they still require survivors to accept risk to a certain degree in order for the power to work. There are only so many logical places for a trap/drone, no matter how well hidden.
A survivor can choose to not accept any risk at all, and trap killers are historically 100% reliant of traps, which makes them unable to down someone in a timely manner if they simply start running in a straight line up the edge of the map when the killer is 20 meters away. Then those well-hidden traps at loops and gens do nothing. It's dumb, but it works in the survivor's favor.
It's a hard concept to make work in this game. Because a trap-based killer with a chase power would be insane. But spreading out the tools to account for the entire map and not just loops leaves them too spread out and inefficient.
Yup, but what are you gonna do? Can't completely scrap all trap Killers. At least this one's got some stealth potential... if it didn't require standing in a time-limited bright glowing area to get it. <_>