Pulsar
Pulsar
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554824#Comment_3554824
Bubba got just nerfed in PTB his ability to down survivors with endurance quickly was nerfed. Survivors has now 0,5s immunity. Camping nerf will ofcourse really hurt him. Bubba should be buffed now. He is easiest killer to loop and one of the most punishing killers to play when making mistake. Chainsaw tantrum time should be reduced significantly or removed and then hitting object's should only slow down him.
You can literally still down them through that.
Camping nerf did virtually nothing to his potential.
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Doctor was weak and felt terrible to play.
Legion was awful to play as and against with the 2nd worst design in DBD.
Freddy was horrifically weak.
Bubba was horrible.
Ghostface was weak.
Sadako was weak.
Oh yeah, lot of just horrible reworks there that made Killers worse.
Oh wait
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@[Deleted User] said:
Hilarious how someone posts asking for advice and the go to responses are camp, tunnel, don’t expect chill matches and don’t play M1 killers.
No wonder the game is in a terrible state.
Realistically, if you aren't running meta in any form and refuse to play mean; you shouldn't be expecting to win against people who are.
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@Juicyman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554211#Comment_3554211
We're not trying to ignore the misery of the majority of the roster because a handful of Killers are strong enough to not be bothered by it. Your set up of the experiment does nothing nor does it teach anything, it's akin to saying "but Nurse" to end all discussion. The original experiment showcases how neutered the basic fundamentals of Killers are against MFT and how awful it feels to be in chase against it.
Top SWFs can manage comfortably against Skull Merchant but aren't we all glad she's getting fixed? We shouldn't be relying on the top end to justify the existence of extremes that shut off the rest of the players. MFT doesn't do much to help you out against the strongest Killers, all it does it crush the lower performing Killers and make them switch to stronger Killers and that's when both sides become miserable.
Top SWF's actually don't manage comfortably against SM, as shown by the nearly hour long hostage match with Team Eternal.
Myers, Ghostface, Pig and etc all have tools to deal with MFT just fine.
Freddy and trapper get hit hardest, but that's more an issue with their design than with MFT, imo.
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@Juicyman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554070#Comment_3554070
Why are you asking to test with a Killer that ultimately isn't affected by MFT that badly when the biggest issue with the perk is how miserable it is to play against with more than half the roster?
Because he's the most popular Killer, ergo, he represents the most likely Killer you'd run into in a live game.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554064#Comment_3554064
Huntress? Trickster? Hag? Just about any killer without a mobility or slowdown power?
Hag is a web Killer. She's not chasing for long.
Huntress only suffers at high walled loops that can't be too long. Same with Trickster. You cannot guarantee that those will be around.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554084#Comment_3554084
they said in the op they couldn't get a single down. you can't camp or tunnel from that point.
Then that is, unfortunately, a skill issue. Is it their fault? Hard to say without seeing gameplay. It could be, it could also be the matchmaker being awful. Realistically though, not getting a down in 2023 DBD is usually on the Killer.
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Instantly hostile, got it. Gonna be one of these types of things with someone upset.
You don't need perks to play that way. You don't need perks to create deadzones. You don't need perks to tunnel (although info perks will help you). You don't need perks to play decent macro.
Either winning matters most to you or it doesn't. You shouldn't expect to win against 4 meta gamers when you're playing a weak Killer with off-meta perks. That'd be ridiculous if you could just stomp them. It's possible to compete, but you need to be willing to commit to a fairly unpleasant playstyle.
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@Lupo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554076#Comment_3554076
do understand, i am a m1 killer, with mostyl info perks, what am i supposed to do if they pre drop everypallet?
You play mean.
Camp, tunnel, force Survivors into dead zones. If you want to win against a good team, you've got to play good macro.
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Yes.
If they play to win, you need to decide what your highest priority is. Do you want to win or just vibe?
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553798#Comment_3553798
Unfortunately, BL tends to reset when you use your power or when you break a pallet. So it doesn't matter how high you can get it, all it takes is one safe pallet drop and you're forced to do it all over again.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553799#Comment_3553799
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553802#Comment_3553802
The perk's performance in a micro setting is directly correlated to its performance in a macro setting. There's a reason we use the words "micro" and "macro", because the plural of micro is macro. If MFT acts as a chase extender for every survivor running it by, say, 30s (micro), it buys every single survivor on the map 3x30s to do gens/reset/do whatever, unbothered (macro). Things in DBD don't happen in a vacuum. A 1v1 tests the perk's performance in a micro, and the killer choice/map choice is to set a standard for a fairly killer sided map, and a pure M1 killer. Or, we can also bring up the math that's been done numerous times before showing how egregious of a chase extender MFT is.
No, it doesn't.
Micro settings in a controlled environment matters almost none to how ACTUAL games play out. You will NOT have an entire map to play with in a real game. You will not be playing against a perkless Killer. You will not be playing against a Trapper who isn't allowed to set-up Traps. You will not be the only Survivor, who can waste resources to extend the chase.
Your example is extremely poor.
If you wanted a REALISTIC example...
Run a Wesker with Unicorn and Gloves. Corrupt, PGTW, UW and PR. Take him to any outdoor map. Have four Survivors with 2 perks allowed to be repeated. Have one player with MFT. Do one match with MFT and one match without.
But you don't want to do that because it would show that MFT isn't a significant difference maker in most matches.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553560#Comment_3553560
TBH I wouldn't use those killers as examples of why MFT is ok.
Ghostface can insta-down, bypassing MFT at least on the initial down. Or, can expose a survivor who's already injured to make them leave the area expecting to be chased while Ghosty goes for another survivor. This killer has an advantage in this area. However if they continually get revealed, or get in a straight unstealthed chase, Ghosty will suffer the same as any other M1 killer. They have a way around it, for at least a little while, which gives them an advantage.
Wraith has speed+stealth, and as such has a much easier time dealing with MFT in general solo queue. VS decent SWFs and highly-skilled solos, MFT is problematic (especially when combined with other speed/second chance perks). Wraith has a couple of basekit options to work with, though.
Knight is more easily able to cut off or herd survivors in close quarters for a hit/down/endurance removal, or drop a guard on a gen to temporarily keep a survivor off of it even if they can't catch them. But if a survivor escapes and is even able to shift W out into an open area, MFT gives the survivor an easier/longer chase and can even make it useless for the Knight to try to summon.
Killers with speed, insta-down, or teleport will fare much better vs MFT and its stacking with other speed perks. This doesn't mean the perk isn't problematic, even if you discount the issues all of the other killers will have vs it.
BHVR gave killers Bloodlust to help out in areas of maps that would be a problem for them to catch a survivor (even though this is negated by having to break so many safe pallets). Then BHVR turned around and without fixing the map issues that caused Bloodlust to exist, gave survivors a perk that even when pallets are gone and there are no windows, brings back almost the same problem killers had before Bloodlust was added. Except this works everywhere, and just requires taking a hit after the chase/pallets/windows/looping have already been going on. The icing on top of this re-breaking chase and loops, is that endurance was included for no reason at all.
The salt in the wound is that from what's been discussed so far, whenever BHVR finally nerfs MFT, they're most likely to just do something non-effective, like remove the endurance component. Which isn't the reason that anyone runs the perk. Many survivor's defense of the perk has already said if the perk loses the speed there won't be a reason to run it, which is an admission that speed is the reason for it to take up a slot.
A proper nerf would be removing the endurance, plus making it time-limited, token-based, or both. Such as, the perk starts with three tokens at the beginning of the trial. When injured, a token is removed and the survivor receives a 3% speed boost for 7 seconds, then the perk deactivates. The perk cannot reactivate until the survivor has been completely healed by any means. Once all three tokens are used, the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial. This would have the perk maintain value, but without being broken.
Alternatively, they could remove the endurance, leave the rest of the perk as-is, and remove killers losing Bloodlust after breaking a pallet. The perk keeps its value, and killers (especially M1s without speed or insta-down) still get to build Bloodlust as it was intended to chase down the survivors. I think the time-limited/token-based option is both the more fair and more realistic choice, though.
So the only Killers hurt by MFT are Trapper and Freddy.
Literally every other Killer has a way to circumvent MFT.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553684#Comment_3553684
I have a pretty easy way to show that MFT is overperforming. Let's hop in a 1v1, you and me. Trapper, no perks, in Coal Tower. You can use any exhaustion perk you want+resi, I'll use MFT and resi. I'm a killer main, so it should be fairly simple for you to win.
What does taking the weakest Killer with no perks or power into a 1v1 without any resource management or macro play prove?
Nothing. It proves nothing.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553385#Comment_3553385
Because it's like old DS. The survivors may not have had it, but because of it's obsession role, you had to play around it like it was.
MFT may not be in the match, but it's always in the back of ones mind in the middle of a chase.
Paranoia, I suppose.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I still play but my amount of play has significantly cut back
Part of that is due to...well...life but part of it is that the game is just not quite the same. I can't even really put my finger on why but my interest in the game lately has been dropping. Maybe the issues with the game are finally catching up to me or maybe after 3+ years of playing, it's bound to feel samey and repetitive eventually but my interest is slowly but surely dropping.
Same.
I'm going into my SIXTH year with the game.
It's rather upsetting, but I really can't play the game casually with my work schedule. I don't have six hours to devote to get a good match.
It's why I've been playing stuff like TCM or Lies of P.
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I've been playing Knight, Ghostface and Wraith.
The perk is strong, but that's okay.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553385#Comment_3553385
How about raw evidence showing the absurd extension to chases that it gives, in a vacuum (aka not accounting for extra loops around pallets, and making tiles you wouldn't have otherwise), showing it outperforms pretty much any exhaustion perk in the game? Because the math has been done more times than I care to recall.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553428#Comment_3553428
Survivor mains in charge of making sense:
I'm sure the fact it's the 2nd most picked perk for survivors is purely coincidental and not representative of its performance whatsoever.
Hyperfocus in its best scenario is OP.
So is PGTW.
Nobody cares about hypothetical vacuum experiments. Clearly, the actual game isn't reflecting what people are loudly proclaiming is the most OP perk since Mettle of Man.
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It will be nerfed when any non ancedotal evidence shows it needs to be nerfed.
You can say it feels bad to play against, and that's valid, but half the time people scream about MFT in streams, said person doesn't have MFT.
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It's my Xbox name.
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Could you imagine that lol
Cameras that can't be removed with the chase potential of Nurse? Oh yeah move over SM, there's a new 3-gen king.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552441#Comment_3552441
Just because something is "the norm" doesn't mean its okay or balanced.
The fact that killer can be put into an auto-loss situation just because of map RNG+spawn RNG is fundamentally unhealthy.
If BHVR considers that fixing the spawns is too much work, then putting 30s of basekit corrupt is the second best option to adress the survivors spawning 3-4 gens from the get go.
Hearing 2-3 gens pop while you're literally walking from your spawn area to the survivor spawn area to *try to find them* is one of the most unmotivating experiences in DBD.
If you're losing gens in 25 seconds, someone is either cheating or they all spawned on a single gen with toolboxes WHICH IS GOOD FOR YOU
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552416#Comment_3552416
That is blatantly untrue and you know it...
Killer early game more often than not starts on a 90-45 second timer to find, chase, down and hook just the first guy.
The time it takes to *find and down* an average player on ideal circumstances still takes close to 60-90 seconds.
Meanwhile since it took 60-90 seconds to get your first down *in ideal circumstances* 2 gens pop, with a 3rd and 4th one starting to be worked on.
The game either needs a pseudo slowdown in the form of survivor spawn fixes, or killer needs to be given some basekit slowdown just so the game doesn't end in 5-6 minutes.
Losing two gens is completely normal.
If you're losing 4 gens in a single chase, you need to learn how to switch targets
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I remember when Spies got nerfed, so there's that.
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I just use him to find Survivors who may be hiding. He's fine as a jack of all trades for me, tbh
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No
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It's probably one of the weaker Exhaustion perks now, but E for Distance was pretty dumb.
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I'd like to see the P100 Portrait removed and have it be replaced by an optional skin.
Wanna show off your dedication? Sick, but yoj understand the consequences that may follow.
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Well, that's generally at least two people not on gens.
So I'd say just roll off of that
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While a much better playstyle, health wise, she just becomes an inferior Knight.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551630#Comment_3551630
I’m just great, thanks for asking.
Skull Merchant is about to become completely worthless and people are going to feel ripped off for buying her cosmetics. Perhaps not releasing a new skin, especially before the changes are live, would minimize this issue.
Most players are not on forums or follow DBD news. So the more I think about it, the more shameless it is to release a new skin right before she is nerfed into oblivion.
She's already completely worthless outside of Hostage Merchant.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551043#Comment_3551043
Well then you have to play a game permanently oblivious. Even on open maps with the ammount of junk around, you will not see a killer appoaching you, and as I mentioned - you're gonna get grabbed from a gen or at least give a killer a free hit all the time, correct?=) Now imagine if you're playing on a indoor maps...?
The only correct counters imo:
- Playing in a swf and communicate where the killer at - but not everyone can play in a swf by anytime.
- All 4 survivors have to cleanse all 8 totems which is a massive ammount of time.
Oblivious is a pretty nasty debuff that you would not want to deal with, but also you don't want to spend a precious time on a totems...
Killers do make noise.
Also, if the DBD Community ISN'T complaining about something, then it's probably perfectly balanced.
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It's not really that good.
It's okay, but most people will catch on and just not cleanse totems.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550789#Comment_3550789
When did I say anything about making every tile worse?
Because you said the ideal tile strength is a L-T wall
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550722#Comment_3550722
I think, what needs to happen is that the devs take a look at the outstanding tiles. Like the shack. They tried to make the tile better when you look at dead dawg, to a landing or now it's absence from Nostromo wreckage. Other tiles like the long tiles on cowshed are still unfair for m1 killers due to the survivor bei able to see the killer at all times and the tile being this long. Main buildings like Garden of joys "house of fun" and asylums, well asylum also should be looked at. This building has no need of 2 very strong Vaults and 2 God pallets. That's what I would want.
Some tiles should be unfair for either side.
Both sides need to have advantageous situations and parts of the map. You can't just make every tile worse.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549824#Comment_3549824
No, if we change MfT, we make the issue less in your face. Let's be real, most maps in dbd are awful in balancing. I made a whole post about unfair loop design not long ago. Changing all maps for the better will probably not happen. I would love to be wrong. But shack will stay the same as with main structures like asylum.
MfT makes these problems worse. It would be a start do delete the haste effect. It's something that hurts weaker killers exponentially more than stronger ones. That's bad design. Same with ultimate weapon. A perk that is exponentially stronger on stronger killers, and almost useless on weaker ones.
Why do you defend the haste?
Shack is fine lol. The game should have strong loops and structures. Obviously it shouldn't be like old Asylum but it should have some
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Pretty sure that's never been the case.
Evil Within I is Undetectable. Evil Within II is a 16m TR
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
I don't need to post any pictures for you guys to know my number one.
Neither do I.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548849#Comment_3548849
I have never seen the endurance come into play, changing that would literally be like balancing blight with "making the fatige vfx after rushing obscure more FOV" it literally changes nothing that makes blight good, same with endurance for MfT.
The perk doesn't need the Endurance.
The perk is also fine without it. If I had to nerf it, that's what I'd do. Anything else and you kill the perk, pretty much.
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I enjoy playing as him, not so much against him.
I find him to be pretty strong, especially against good teams
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549098#Comment_3549098
I think every killer should be at least viable on every map. MfT makes problematic maps worse for weaker killers. Erasing the endurance would not fix the core problem of this perk.
I like to play Pig. That's my fault now?
It isn't your fault that Pig is a weak Killer, but you need to have realistic expectations.
If you try to play Pig like you play Blight, it's probably not gonna go well.
Once again, it sounds like your issue is with map design and Killer power level. If you change MFT, all you've done is avoid the actual issue.
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I find him to be one of my better Killers.
As long as you're willing to strategize and play macro, you'll be okay as Knight.
Also run Map of the Realm and Call To Arms
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548778#Comment_3548778
I main Pig, i think thats clear at this point. This killer loses if she doesnt get her Beartraps down on survivors. Therefore in ealy game i cant afford to chase 3 different people only for them to all run to safe structures. I often hzave survivors bee-lining to pallets. I have to get a down somewhen.
Sometimes i can negate shift w yes. That is true. But there are good amount of times where i cant. Pig is an m1 killer.
I feel like i need to say this again: i extremely rarely lose to mft alone. I win most of my matches due to survivors underestimating a "weak" killer and the experience i got in 3k hours.
Shift w however is the most boring and effecctive playstyle in the game, at least for me who enjoys mindgames, has very little counter on a lot of maps and is empowered my mft.
Regarding the last part, exploiting weaknesses, i do the exact same. I cant however outplay a survivor on asylum running from main building ot shack and vice versa because they have 3 god pallets waiting for them. And dont tell me to just chase the others when main is in the middle of the map and everyone has direct access to it.
It sounds like your issue is less MFT and more Pig on bad maps
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Yeah, I wouldn't touch Survivor if I didn't need to keep up my perspective.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548775#Comment_3548775
Hey, as long as we also asume we aren't playing against the best dbd players on the killers side and perks like ultimate weapon are also ok, I have no issue, like this may sound like a sarcastic/snarky comment but its not, if someone actually keeps their position on a topic for both sides it shows imparciality, so actually yeah, asuming both sides are not gonna be the best players is a reasonable tought as long as it applies to both sides, like im all for arguing MfT is fine because most players arent comp loopers so it should never be problematic, as long as we hold nurse and blight to the same standar. I disagree on both topics, I personally think MfT, nurse and blight should be toned down.
I'm for toning MFT down, as in removing the Endurance, it simply doesn't make sense.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548745#Comment_3548745
I see a lot of players using the part of MfT that is the worst. Shift w. This has no counter. They run to a pallet. Look if your near. If you are, they predrop. If your not they run to the next pallet or window they see with windows. Nothing I can do. Add that to a bunch of unfair tiles and MFT makes my game miserable.
I just had players using the car tiles before Badham school. They just waited at the dropped pallet. When I got close, the vaulted with resi. I couldn't hit them. When I tried to run the other way, they got the complete round to get to the pallet again thanks to MfT.
Again: that's straight up wrong.
The fact that you say, "Nothing I can do" makes it seem like you've written off the encounter before you've even played it and have already accepted any potential chase as a loss. Shift W isn't all that effective if you path properly. It can be brutal against some Killers, but with most you can mitigate it by having good pathing/zoning and using your ears/eyes to predict where the Survivor will go.
You don't NEED to chase people at strong structures. You are perfectly capable of forcing a pallet drop and playing macro.
That's how I win most of my games. My chases aren't spectacular, since I'm on Console, but I know how to manipulate people's playstyles and exploit weaknesses.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548725#Comment_3548725
The counter to nurse is that most players wont play her perfectly, this sounds just plain stupid.
That is Nurse's counter, yes.
I assume that's also why Blight hasn't been nerfed.
Unless you think you're playing against the best DBD players, I'm not seeing anything out of MFT that I'm not able to deal with. It's a strong perk, no doubt, but it ######### people over a LOT. This is doubly true if you have any gamesense and can make a decent read on your opponent.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548725#Comment_3548725
Relying on your opponent to make a mistake is not a counter.
That's literally how 90% of this game works.
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The best lesson you can take from veterans is to not take the game too seriously, especially at first.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548725#Comment_3548725
That is just straight up wrong.
They will overcommit and greed.
You run around a rock loop, with MFT, you get further around and run close enough to the Killer that they'll get a hit. I see this one almost constantly.
Better players will use it to greed. This is easily punishable by greeding yourself.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546422#Comment_3546422
But complaining about something you see every game. That has no real counter and is very annoying to play against. That hits weaker killers very hard and is almost useless against the stronger ones. Is. Valid.
The counter is that most players who use MFT will play worse with it.