Pulsar
Pulsar
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558728#Comment_3558728
Its still the second most popular perk on survivor side. In the time its been out, thats impressive.
It also doesnt minimize the aspekt of the perk being unfun to play against and making one of dbd´s problems, maps, stand out even more.
It deserves the nerf that is eventually coming for it. Wether thats the endurance part being gone or the haste being nerfed / deleted. I personally am more for the second part, because i encourage altruistsic plays. Dbd - survivor is a team game after all. And because of the reasons i stated above on why the haste is unhealthy for the game.
I have to ask again, why do you defend this perk?
It does not need a nerf simply because it's popular.
It being unfun to play against is something to take note of, but is honestly more on the player.
Maps being an issue is a separate issue from MFT. Same argument as WoO.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558357#Comment_3558357
MFT isn't fun to play against because it makes chases against good players feel unfair as M1 killer. Solution, play dirtier? Isn't the whole point of the balancing to make playing without tunneling and camping every match a viable option, even against good players?
I'm doubting if you yourself have faced strong survivors running MFT while you were playing a weaker killer. If you haven't you should, because your perspective would change. It is very noticeable how much more they can exhaust tiles before dropping pallets/leaving tile, and how long it takes to catch up.
It's like old DH before the unhook nerf. Sure, as a survivor it feels fine. What's 15-30 extra seconds in chase? Then you play killer and eat 15 Dead Hards in a match, plus the stupid waiting, and you start to see the problem.
I know my post is already long but another lame thing is, you can't really tell who has MFT until you've chased them for a bit and you pay attention to the distance you're not making. Frustrating, unfun, and "tunnel harder" is not good advice nor a good solution to this perk.
Don't even get me started on MFT + Hope if you're not playing a top tier killer.
I've played against a couple of competitive players who were all using it several months ago.
Was the game hard because of MFT or was it hard because they were competitive quality players?
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559154#Comment_3559154
yes... and producing a "consistent game winning effect" is the pinpoint defininion of "overpowered" , Your skill and ability should determine the chances of you winning, being able to equip MFT+Resi and being carried by the perks shouldn't be a thing.
The other perks i've named provide game influencing effects that require minimal brain usage to pull off, thats the epitome of what all perks should be.
----
And people do consider blight to be easy mode... because he fundamentally is, theres some skill when it comes to bump logic and techs, but fundamentally blight gameplay is just *run fast*.
Pain Res, PGTW and Corrupt via your own logic, are game winning effects and are thereby OP.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558823#Comment_3558823
Reassurance is commonly agreed on as being an S tier perk. Not so much now that anti facecamp will be in the game, but it had a year to make it to 25% usage rate. Why didn't it?
It's only S-tier under certain circumstances.
Generally though, you need coordinated uses of it. You just do not get that in your average DBD game. Your teammates can't be getting off gens to get save, it can't be any number of Killers, it can't be in basement etc etc
It's a great perk in comp and in very specific circumstances in pubs, but because of its situational-ness, I can't say it's above a B-tier perk.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558824#Comment_3558824
This. Too many variables for one simple answer. I will say that if I have the time and it's feasible at that pallet, I will play the mind game just because it's fun.
I will usually do the same.
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Greatly depends on the pallet, the quality of Survivors and the state of my game.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558579#Comment_3558579
Im sorry if i misunderstood that.
Maybe as´k yourself why Mft is so popular.
It IS also egregiously popular. It became the second most popular survivor perk in what, 5 months???? I see it every game. It is super unfun to play against, it encourages unfun gameplay and it is, in fact, too strong.
Why do you defend this perk?
Why is it popular?
Well, it's a strong perk. It's not often Survivors come with good perks. Usually they're either mid, meme or just straight up bad.
Content creators have been going ballistic over it for months. That's definitely got something to do with it.
Definitely because some people go ballistic when they see it in game and give reactions.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558577#Comment_3558577
ruin pre 6.1 was very healthy if you ask me.
That's on me, I should've been more specific.
Original Ruin.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558599#Comment_3558599
Original ruin wasn't balanced at high mmr to begin with.
It takes AI level of "skill" to pull off greats 100% of the time just to *not lose progress*.
And i highly doubt people had "totem spots memorized". Like sure you can remember a couple predetermined spots per map, but remembering 5 totem spots per map + every single tile permutation on said map is downright impossible.
But sure, keep throwing up perks.
You didn't need to hit all of them, just enough to get the gen done. Worse players couldn't hit ANY without either missing or blowing up the gen.
Likewise, yes, we did have totem spots memorized. There weren't THAT many maps and the RNG has been the same for 7 years.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558566#Comment_3558566
Usually you're supposed to provide a valid counter argument with some kind of evidence, not just go "well you're wrong lol".
Perks that are balanced at high mmr are balanced at lower mmrs this is defacto.
A perk *looking* like its good because the other side has severe skill issue is not a *balance problem* it would be like claiming any means necessary is overpowered when you refuse to kick pallets / do chase cleanup.
"Perks that are balanced at high mmr are balanced at lower mmrs this is defacto."
LMAO, this is the most blatantly wrong thing I've heard in a long time.
Old Ruin Undying was balanced at high MMR because people would split up and power through it.
The perk was NOT balanced at average MMR because you couldn't reasonably cleanse 5 totems without throwing.
Ancient Ruin was balanced at high MMR because players had totem spots memorized and because they could consistently hit Great Skill Checks.
The perk was not balanced at average MMR because new players didn't know where the totems where and couldn't hit Greats.
I can keep going, but I hope you get the point.
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553385#Comment_3553385
I don't care about it one way or the other, but it does encourage killers to hit the one being healed rather than the healer. That's often tunneling.
BT discourages tunneling, but then MFT comes along, cancels the BT and says "I changed my mind, now the correct play is to tunnel or else I get to play super-survivor."
It's one thing if a killer brings perks to tunnel or camp with, but when survivors are doing it, that's forcing the killer's hand in a way that maybe neither side wanted. Seems unhealthy.
BT doesn't even really discourage tunneling. If I hit them right off of hook, they really aren't making THAT much distance and now they can't use DH or Syringes/Styptics.
But yes, I see your point. I don't think it's super impactful (assuming both players have MFT) because either way the Killer needs to go through two healthstates.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558376#Comment_3558376
As you said, MFT encourages unfun gameplay from the killer side.
Because it is very unfun to play against.
That's is reason enough for me to nerf it.
DH was also not a perk I lost against, despite what most people say. Deserved it a nerf? Absolutely. Why? Because it was so common and so unfun to play against as killer.
Sometimes it's not just about the strength of a perk but about the fun in game. Games are supposed to be fun, remember?
I did not say that.
I said that if you play against four good players, you'll have to employ some unpleasant strategies if you want to win. That's the truth of lower-tier Killers, whether or not the Survivors have MFT.
I do not think we should nerf perks for being popular unless it's egregiously popular.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558416#Comment_3558416
Pop was still good.
I used it a bunch on killers like demo.
Ruin would be a better example.
Old Ruin was unhealthy though.
I was using SC and PGTW as examples of perks that were nerfed simply for being meta and therefore having high usage rates.
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Well, I mean it's true and I feel it's important to point out.
Elsewise we get things like Self-Care or Old PGTW getting nerfed.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558368#Comment_3558368
MFT and WoO are literally the corner stones of the meta.
I don't know why you'd waste any time arguing over it.
Meta != a problem.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558357#Comment_3558357
So mft is a problem?
I don't think so, no.
You'd need to do all those things as Trapper against a good team regardless of MFT's precense in a match.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558346#Comment_3558346
You keep making these extremely vague sweeping statements about "don't play micro, play macro". At what point exactly are you supposed to get your hooks and downs? You keep making the inference that chasing is somehow a negative, and yet provide no alternative. If I'm playing trapper against 4x MFT, how am I gonna win?
You camp, you tunnel, you create deadzones, you create a web, you force Survivors into said web, you hold a 3-gen, you identify the weakest link, you don't chase people into bad areas of the map, you eliminate strong pallets early.
There's any number of things you could do. Not all of them are fun, but as you've said, playing against four good players with MFT's isn't fun for you either. Match their energy.
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I am still of the mind that unhooked Survivors should lose collision.
Prevents tunneling and bodyblocking.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558303#Comment_3558303
That's not MFT being detrimental to you, that's your own lack of skill being detrimental to you. If you run into the killer, it's 100% a skill issue. Saying "but a brand new install gets negative value from the perk" isn't the argument you think it is.
1v1s ARE a realistic scenario. A lot of killers are forced to M1 chase a lot of the time. In fact, the entire CHASE interaction is a literal 1v1.
That's the average Survivor. Heck, that's even good Survivors. Even tournament level Survivors get caught by that.
1v1s aren't a realistic scenario because you've ignored ANY macro gameplay. Nobody cares about micro gameplay. The most impactful type of gameplay for either side is completely excluded in your scenario.
OF COURSE if you give a Survivor an entire maps worse of pallets they are gonna do well. Any baby player could do that. Especially against a set-up Killer.
You just stacked the odds in your arguments favor and called it a day. At least have an honest argument.
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I don't think that his tail attack is fixed yet.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558260#Comment_3558260
No offense, but is this really the best argument you can come up with for MFT being somehow balanced? "If you run towards the killer, you die faster"?
I'm a killer main with 75/25 time split between killer and survivor. I'm not ashamed to say I run MFT basically any time I play survivor, and I do so because my time commitments have gotten to the time I don't get to play much with my usual squad and typically only play solo Q, and playing with MFT is easy mode looping.
I don't need to make a scenario "as bad as possible for killer". Taking MFT in a 1v1 against an M1 killer is testing it IN PRACTICE. The worst scenario possible would be Nurse not being allowed to blink, against MFT Hope Iron Will Ada, on Lerys. A perk that makes as much of a difference as consistently as MFT should not exist.
Yes, SB will bail you out of bad positioning; one time. And then, you loop as a 100% survivor. There is a scenario where Balanced/SB/Lithe are better than MFT: when pressuring gens (especially 3-gens) and you need to get as far away as early as possible without taking a hit (to force a killer to either commit or go back and protect the gens). In virtually every other scenario, MFT is far, far superior.
Your argument was that if you play sloppy, MFT bails you out. I countered that by explaining how it could be detrimental to you.
Taking a Killer and forbidding them from using their power as they would REASONABLY be using it in a match IS FIXING THE OUTCOME. It's like sending Billy against MFT but telling him he can't use him chainsaw at all. It's not a realistic scenario.
Either come up with a realistic scenario or don't bother using one in the first place.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558192#Comment_3558192
We've already disproved that it's like Hyperfocus. Unlike Hyperfocus, it doesn't require perfect play to get value out of. In fact, it makes up for very sloppy play, and amplifies perfect play to the level to where it cannot be countered altogether.
And again, MFT provides MORE value outside of a vacuum because a vacuum doesn't account for it working basically anywhere where you're not simply holding down W. The simple fact that MFT allows you to make almost two extra loops around an i-pallet (one of the strongest fillers in the game) is absolutely ludicrous.
Uh, no. It hurts sloppy plays because it can't bail you out. For example, you get mindgamed at a loop, you are now even closer to the Killer. You also don't have perks like SB to bail you out of bad positioning.
That is, once again, taking things in a vacuum. Your teammates may have already dropped that pallet. It may have not spawned in the first place. The Killer could have any number of perks. It could be any number of Killers.
Instead, you made the scenario as bad as possible for the Killer and as good as possible for the Survivor to try to prove a point.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557929#Comment_3557929
I didn't say any of that, I don't know where you got your reading comprehension. But I did say those were the ONLY possible explanations for why someone who's presumably been playing DBD for the last 5 months wouldn't have an issue with MFT.
Saying you only play against trash survivors isn't calling you bad; it's the complete opposite. It's calling the survivors bad. Saying your game sense is bad isn't an insult either, some of the most technical and mechanically skilled players in this game (I'm thinking of Lilith here especially) have lacking game sense. But that's not necessarily a bad thing; different players choose to focus on different things in the game. Lilith wants to just have fun with Blight, and not track down every single metric at any given point; and that's completely okay.
I don't doubt that those are your stats. And they mean absolutely nothing to me as far as this discussion goes. MFT is a problematic. This has been proven a number of ways, and is an accepted consensus amongst players far above the levels that you and I will ever reach. My main point, this entire time, is you have been disingenuous this entire discussion regarding it, insisting that it's no problem without elaborating, and saying to just "counter it". You need to do better if you're gonna convince anyone.
Your entire argument has been that since I disagree, I'm either one of three things.
Completely disingenuous.
A Survivor main.
Bad.
At least own it.
I don't believe MFT is an issue because of my experience in game. These hypothetical examples of MFT getting you 20% extra distance is what happens in a vacuum. It's not a real-world live example. Now, things can feel bad to play against and not be OP and still need changes, like Boil Over. But that's pretty clearly not the argument you've been making.
Likewise, that person who tried to say MFT was OP because a perkless, addonless Trapper on Coal Tower got wrecked in a 1v1 by it was also being extremely disingenuous.
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Survivors cannot use MFT well. You will not be playing against people that can often and when you do, it's likely that the outcome of that match would've been the same, MFT or no MFT. The perk is much like Hyperfocus. In it's best state, it IS extremely strong. However, that best state requires skill, luck and several other extraneous factors in order to be achieved.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557588#Comment_3557588
Whataboutism? That's original.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557637#Comment_3557637
I never called you a survivor main, I just said you're dishonest when it comes to MFT. You would literally have to be completely clueless (i.e brand new), disingenuous, or playing one of like 4 killers that's not terribly affected by it, to pretend that MFT isn't the problem that people are making it out to be.
Your literal first comment is about me never playing Killer lol.
"You never play killer"
The next things you say are calling me bad lmao
"You play against trash survivors"
"Your game sense is so lackluster that you think survivors being able to do 10+ loops around a filler and be able to greed against a BL2 killer is entirely normal"
I think I've got 14K Kills and 1.1K escapes with 5500 hours on my main with maybe 500 elsewhere. I've played against several comp teams with tournament wins and I've participated in Tofu's scrims + the Community Cups.
Let's dispell all your arguments above. I almost exclusively play Killer, have a lot of time in it and I'm at least above average.
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@BigChapAlien21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557633#Comment_3557633
Well sure. Most people tend to exaggerate how bad their losses really are because they take them very personally. Because of how many different elements are in the game, it's easier to find reasons to blame anyone but yourself.
Yes, it's why when you break past that mentality, you really start to improve.
Both in-game and in life.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557629#Comment_3557629
Didnt people had eyes and ears to counter old spirit too? I absolutelly do not care about FtP+blucke up but it pisses me off how "the visual heart beat is good for disabled player(which is true). But if I complain about audio issues as killer I get the: "use your ears/eyes LMAO". Everytime someone as killer complains about something that isnt fun, they just get replied with the classic git gud, but somehow that answer is not valid with survivor issues to te point of gutting killers because of said complaints (altho some survivor perks have been gutted for the same reason too).
Things should be equivalent between the two sides, QoL wise. I don't think there's much debate about that. It's just harder to do with Killer.
Footsteps are not generally audible anymore. Maybe you could get an arrow like how Alien gets one whilst in the tunnel?
Also, that didn't work with old Spirit because of the standstill mindgame.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557051#Comment_3557051
It's the only viable explanation for why you hold that view. I'm not the best at this game but I'd like to think I'm pretty good. If I can notice MFT making a difference in a jungle gym while I'm antilooping it with BLIGHT and noticing the survivor making more distance than they should be able to, there's no reason you shouldn't be affected on any killer that can't bypass the injured health state, especially against a perk with as much empirical evidence about its brokenness as MFT.
Try to think of something else.
Calling me a Survivor main is like calling Blight mid.
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@BigChapAlien21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557159#Comment_3557159
Or it proves that MMR, as known by virtually everyone, is pretty bad. Do we have a name for this Myers player though? Is he just running Tombstone every game?
Still, it proves that either people who say, "Survivors are so OP, MFT is OP, I only get God Survivors etc etc" are not telling the truth if a Myers can manage that.
I'm not sure who it is. I'm not super surprised if Clown can get a similar length win streak though.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551779#Comment_3551779
Why is it that the "it had no counterplay/its not fun" argument its never valid when discussing killer issues, old slinger and old legion were easy af to beat, yet they were changed because they were unfun/uncounterable. Much like you said this combo has two people not on gens, that doesnt make it less unfun or counterable, I just hope given your responde you do not argue to change things based on how unfun/uncounterable they are as you show clear bias in this comment.
Because it is counterable.
You have eyes and ears, you can usually find the person sprinting after you.
Likewise, with only two people on gens, the game is going to be extremely slow. You'll have plenty of time to recover.
I've found the combo to be excellent at delaying a tunnel out, which is great for the game imo. Nobody likes loading in, seeing someone get hooked and then tunneled out in two minutes.
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Well, i wish we got kill rates to go with it.
My dream is that one day, people will realize that Self-Care is bad.
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Console or PC?
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557024#Comment_3557024
It doesn't matter if he has a 300 win streak or a 3000 win streak. That's not the rule, that's the exception to the rule. You can't compare everyone else to the 0.00001% of players that can do that - it's ludicrous.
I mean, it proves that Myers has the capacity to do that.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557014#Comment_3557014
20% extra chase time on paper (much more in practice) is "literally" nothing? Yes, trapper is bad. And YES, MFT does make him significantly worse, as it does almost any killer on the roster without a means of quickly catching up, dishing damage from range, or antiloop of some form. It's not MFT's fault that Trapper is bad; Trapper is bad by design. What MFT does is make Trapper near unplayable.
You and others have very little issues with MFT for any/all of the following reasons:
1) You never play killer
2) You play against trash survivors
3) You play killers that don't mind MFT
4) Your game sense is so lackluster that you think survivors being able to do 10+ loops around a filler and be able to greed against a BL2 killer is entirely normal
Do I need to pull out my stats?
We really gonna go down the, "You have a different view than me so you're an X main" thing? Really?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557031#Comment_3557031
I think Doc is so dated, that being permanently Exhausted in T3 (while also kicking Survivors back down to T2 off Hook) wouldn't be too far of a basekit change. Survivors can use their Exhaustion perk before they reach T3, or a Doc can tactically utilize the Blast to cap their T3 and start chase.
Yeah that's the issue I'm starting to see.
Lots of Killers just have outdated powers and BHVR is clearly unable to keep up.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557030#Comment_3557030
Dropping a chase is basically a game throwing move against a good team if you are playing a low mobility killer who needs to hit survivors twice and can't hit over safe pallets. Depending on the map it might be 20-30 seconds to get into the next one and that's a cumulative gen lost if the other 3 survivors are alive, and there is no guarantee the next chase will be any better or the survivor won't be beelining to an area just as safe as the one you left
To me this is like saying "Don't chase the main building on disturbed ward" when maybe 4-5 of 7 gens are usually a stones throw away from it
But I guess I must not have enough strategy, ill try not damaging survivors or loading into survivor sided maps next time
With that attitude, I'm not surprised.
You've already decided the match is a loss. It's tilting you, I'd advise you to try to address that first and see how you do.
I PROMISE you are not running into that good team often.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556522#Comment_3556522
Preface - assuming we remove MfT's endurance (which I think should be done), should we remove or adjust the 3%? I'd be fine with a hard swap MfT and Dark Theory (DT going to 3% and MfT going to 2%.
My stance was video comparisons/loop differentials to change my opinion on the 3% portion, and this is a perfect poor example for a couple of reasons.
First, there should be Killer and Survivor visuals. During the Hope section (5:45) the Killer enters and exits chase, so the Killer is intentionally (or unknowingly without enough skill to recognize) sabotaging the integrity of the chase/video. Even if it were a tall structure where you can't look over, the Killer can still hide redstain or mindgame in other ways*. But the main issue here is the Killer (friend) shown in the video is intentionally or unknowingly sabotaging the integrity of the video, so we don't know if in the original comparison (0:45) he was running the tiles wide without Killer perspective also. He could have just asked the friend to run both as Survivor also, so that way if the video maker ran 3/5 pallet rotations without and with MfT as Survivor, then when as Killer, he ran 2/3 or 5/9 rotations, they could know someone is running tiles looser or tighter. At the same time, if it were the same, then we could see the side-by-side, even if it weren't edited in that way (open another window and play the Survivor and Killer sections simultaneously).
Secondly, there should be more than 1 tile showcased. This is 1 filler pallet on 1 map. At the very least show LT walls (which to be fair, have different lengths on different realms), Longwall Jungle Gyms, Shortwall Jungle Gyms, and Shack. I don't feel like that is too much to ask for. Similarly if someone were to come up saying "Bamboozle is OP, Delete pls" it should show which tiles are shut down as a result.
*I tried to find a video example but I couldn't for the life of me, so enjoy a mediocre paint drawing of the generic pallet tile in its place. (Which could be compared as a tall wall version of the loop showcased at the timestamps listed above.)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RHKMLLVTT2B0/palletlooptallwallmindgameexample.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556733#Comment_3556733
I will say any Stealth Killer 'countered' by MfT is simply playing Stealth Killers wrong. Doc I will 100% agree with you however.
I love MfT because it means those foolish Survivors can't escape my Mark as Ghosty with Sprint Burst (or get instagibbed due to stealth while injured). I find similar reasons every time I play most Killers. "Thank goodness they didn't bring X perk" when I find out they have MfT, but mostly its SB.
Doc basically needs faster Detonation and Range against MFT.
Also, yeah, your point on Stealth Killers is spot on.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556944#Comment_3556944
Imagine saying "just counter MFT" when it gives value every time you injure a survivor, omegalul. Let me just blow half my killer perks (aka the supposed equivalent to 8 survivor perks) to have the ~possibility~ to counter 2-3 survivor perks, yeah
Dumpster tier killers don't have the slots. You start running things like blood echo and fearmonger and you are then not running slowdown perks or bamboozle so you then you get the 3 gens done in 60 seconds games or survivors humping literal god windows that are still in the game after 7 years
The solution is to just play killers who are less impacted by it and wait until the inevitable nerfs. It's worse than old dead hard for distance because at least you only had to deal with DH letting a survivor make it to the next series of pallets once per chase, MFT can go on giving value as long as there are windows and pallets on the map
BHVR releasing a pay to win perk, waiting until everyone buys it, and then nerfing it down the road is almost a hallmark of the company by now. There were horde of people like yourself defending circle of healing too
First of all, no.
I almost exclusively play Killers who aren't high-tier. I have zero issue countering MFT because I do not 5head chase someone at an absurdly strong structure for 10 minutes. It seems these days the moment anything requires some strategy, people lose their minds.
Also, I believe I was one of the first people to point out that CoH completely destroyed any macro gameplay. Most people misunderstood why it was powerful. Not that it provided a boon to healing (no pun intended) but that it allowed you to Self-Heal.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556990#Comment_3556990
Because M1 chasing shouldn't be something that's discouraged. It's the primary method with which a LOT of killers get their downs (hence the term... M1 killer). Unless you're a 110, there are a lot of situations where you are expected to M1 chase. Making a blanket apology for MFT for destroying any nuance in this dimension of the game entirely, and excusing it with "the killer should just do better" is extremely dishonest.
MFT is doing nothing in your scenario though.
Literally nothing, talk about being dishonest. Is Trapper bad? Yes. Does MFT make him significantly worse? No. Is it somehow MFT's fault that Trapper is bad? No. If we nerf MFT does that make Trapper better? No.
Explain how I, and others, have very little issues with MFT?
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556981#Comment_3556981
Because I got Eyrie/Garden/Gideon/insert whatever other terrible map for Trapper there is, against a 4 man that defuses my traps while I'm mid chase, and I have literally no other option?
So why are you blaming MFT for something that isn't it's fault?
You are already in the worst case scenario. If the Survivors did not have MFT, the outcome would not change.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556944#Comment_3556944
It's possible; just in the same way countering old Eruption was possible. It was just exhausting and took way more effort than is worth. I want to play Trapper, but why would I when I know at least 1 in 4 of survivors I'll have in my lobbies will have the funny 3% perk that will erase all their mistakes around tiles? The problem with MFT is, in my opinion, very similar to the problem with Gideon. Gideon is very uninteractive (run to god pallet, drop god pallet, killer breaks, rinse and repeat until deadzone and killer 3-gens). In the same way, MFT renders a lot of the fun of chases and mindgames very stale and uninteractive for killer. Win a mindgame around shack and vault perfectly on top of survivor? Who cares, they still make window with MFT+Resi. Every strong tile becomes a "Hold W to build Bloodlust and wait for them to drop the strong pallet". Every filler becomes "stop respecting and just chase hoping they greed and eat pallet after pallet". It removes all interaction from the chase. It diminishes the impact of winning a mindgame around a tile, and reduces the entire chase interaction into a game of "can you outspeed/outzone the funny haste perk?".
Frankly, it's long overdue for a nerf.
....why are you M1 chasing with Trapper?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're supposed to chase in a web and try to catch them in Traps.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556733#Comment_3556733
It depends on how strict we're being here- technically speaking, Trapper hard counters MFT, but it would be kind of misleading to put him on a list. He'd be more like the baseline; somewhat affected by MFT via regular M1 chasing, but not significantly enough that he's any less viable than he typically is.
So, for killers that definitely do not have to care about MFT at all: Nurse, Bubba, Clown, Spirit, Plague (in Corrupt Purge, anyway), Ghostface, Oni, Pyramid Head (insofar as his power is not affected, though to be fair he doesn't have speed or hindered), Blight, Twins (except for the Endurance which they care a lot about), Nemesis, Pinhead, Artist, Sadako, Wesker, kiiiinda Xenomorph? These killers will all notice MFT if a skilled player is using it, but have something in their power that allows them to mitigate it almost entirely in at least most scenarios.
For killers that contextually don't care about MFT, with the right builds or in the right circumstances: Wraith (with uncloak speed addons), Billy (unless he's cucked by a terrible map), Myers (most actually viable builds don't care about MFT, but tbf, not all and his basekit does care), Trickster (just sharpens his feast or famine nature, doesn't actually change it), Huntress (dependant on what LoS blockers are around). Self explanatory; these killers have tools but may not be running them in an MFT game, or only care depending on specifics of what map they're on and what part of that map they're chasing in.
Killers at neutral: Trapper, Freddy (his snares kinda help, but they're not consistent enough), Legion. These killers basically just have to M1 chase, which means MFT is definitely doing something but isn't actively harming their power.
Killers who are actually going to notice MFT, but are still viable: Hag (harder to M1 chase but traps themselves unaffected), Doctor (messes with Shock Therapy timing), Pig (I'd argue her power is more affected by slightly harder M1 chases than the killers in neutral and it's easier to evade her ambush), Demogorgon (easier to juke his Shred, I think. Haven't tested.), Deathslinger (easier to juke for sure), Dredge, Knight. These killers aren't unplayable, but they do have to try noticeably harder or lean harder on ambushing and mindgaming.
I'm exempting Singularity from this list as I'm not entirely sure about him, and Skull Merchant because her new iteration literally has not been played by anyone yet. I'm also focusing more on the 3% Haste element of MFT primarily, because including the Endurance would slightly change this list but pretty much everyone agrees that part should go. The Haste is the contentious part, imo.
So, our list of killers that are rendered unviable is 0, and our list of killers who'll notice but can still do well sits at 7. Significantly lower than 'over 20' even if we soften your claim to the more reasonable "is mildly countered by" or "will notice".
I'd say Knight is pretty unaffected.
His Guards aren't really meant to hit people consistently, and MFT doesn't really change the time wasting nature of his Guards.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556622#Comment_3556622
Ah yes, lemme just somehow outskill a survivor in a shift W chase.
Or maybe have the hindsight to have played one of the 6 or 7 killers out of 33 that can mitigate the problem that the 3% haste is.
Any suggestions or opinions containing "get gud" or "play x killer" are on multiple levels of unhealthy and just show extreme bias.
Nobody in their right minds would see a perk that makes over 20 something killers completely unviable and still defend the perk.
"Completely unviable"
So you think those Killers have a, what, 30% KR against MFT?
Have you thought about TRYING to think outside the box and TRYING to counter the perk instead of throwing up your hands and saying it's OP? Like genuinely, have you tried?
I have, and it's completely possible.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556235#Comment_3556235
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556248#Comment_3556248
Yall mean videos like this?
https://youtu.be/EPX5K0r3oDU?si=DYkqzKoqhlgoJ3lH
you dont even need video evidence, basic math is enough to understand the perk is busted.
20-30% chase extension for holding shift W is ridiculous.
On a 30s chase you get 6 extra seconds from MFT , bringing it up to 36.
Times that by 3 and a single Survivor is buying 18 seconds at a minimum for free just because hes holding shift W.
This is first grade math, you dont need a PHD to do understand that 18 seconds for free per Survivor is extremely busted.
(This doesn't even take into account pallets and windows you made because of MFT causing a chase reset)
It also doesn't take into account Killers with a modicum of skill being able to identify and circumvent it, as well as exploit it.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
Remove Endurance effect, and make it so MFT can’t stack with other haste perks.
Thats all the perk needs.
But (hot take), until Blight gets his busted add-ons nerfed, MFT should remain in its current state, 3 years we dealt with it while MFT remained in game for 5 months.
That is a horrible way to look at things and only promotes more tribalism.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556424#Comment_3556424
I am an insomniac. I have been awake since Monday.
A player after my own heart.
However, I must urge you to do what it took me years to do. Seek medical help for your insomnia. It only gets worse when you get older, it ages you faster as I'm figuring out.
Likewise, if I can't discourage you from playing for 15 hours, allow me to remind you to get up every 30 minutes (2-3 games) and walk around for 5 minutes. This helps with blood flow, improving circulation, reduces the chances of blood clots, helps activates muscles and helps your eyes with strain. It may also be wise to apply a blue light filter, if your TV doesn't have one, I don't think blue light glasses are expensive.
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@ShErMaDeRmA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555510#Comment_3555510
Did I not explain twice how that doesn't do anything. The stagger from falling off the haybale doesn't slow enough to stop them from making it to the window again without trouble, and it's easy enough to get around the harvester afterwards that the game drops chase because of LoS, stopping a window block or bloodlust. I had a match with a swf using a coldwind offering. Any chase I had, they ran to the harvesters. I was Wesker of all killers. Vaulting with his power wasn't fast enough, being 115% wasn't fast enough.
They shouldn't be able to make it to a Harvester. Especially not against Wesker.
They are not invincible. Please do not stretch the truth, it makes your other points appear less valid. You should not be losing chase in that situation.
You could also just....you know, not chase them
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If you vault the window, they lose the "invincibility."
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Not really actually.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554835#Comment_3554835
In no way is Sadako A-tier. Fair enough metas change, perhaps they should update the Killers with it.
I would agree with that, perhaps they should update Killers more than once a year.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554824#Comment_3554824
All those Killers get crushed by competent Survivors. You make it sound like they were buffed to A-tier.
Sadako is.
A lot of those Killers were GOOD when they got their reworks, but the last true rework prior to Sadako was over a year ago. Metas evolve. It's why a Killer like Myers, once considered to be a strong and ideally balanced Killer, is now considered weak