Prometheus1092
Prometheus1092
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858128#Comment_3858128
Where was it confirmed? AFAIK aside from one BHVR quote, I haven't heard anything.
This was a team with a full stealth setup who hid from the start. One literally has 'DbD hide and seek professional' in their Steam profile. All have Cyrillic names and I think one is a TTV.
Never banned.
I can find anecdotes of people banned for a variety of things on Reddit, and not a single one for this.
It's either not bannable or it's technically against the rules but never enforced.
It's been confirmed various times, I only have a couple of them saved but there are others that might have other screenshots. I haven't seen anything to say it's not reportable. If it's not enforced then I guess it's fair game lol. Personally, my way works for me... Slug, if can't find 4th then I keep 3rd alive as long as possible and play the long game. 3rd can quit and take the DC penalty, they can afk and let me carry them around the map until server ends or they can risk helping me to rat out the 4th (which is difficult to prove especially if I dont give the hatch as reward for helping). In the same respect I have played with the same survivor multiple times, each time they have helped me to wrap up the match...they even said they knew it was me because of my playstyle and killer so knew what was coming lol and they haven't been banned yet because I still see them from time to time. Point is doesn't mean it's not reportable just because people can get away with it.
cf218859-6bbc-4cca-9bab-2d0eb9d22e57.jpeg image-2024-08-14-213152145.png -
@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858090#Comment_3858090
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858089#Comment_3858089
Nobody has ever been banned for avoiding AFK crows and hiding. The BHVR claim that it's bannable was either erroneous or outdated.
I've never found a single example of one, even anecdotal. I've also run into the same trio who claim they do it almost every game (and come in with builds specifically for it) multiple times over a few weeks. They hid every time. I reported them every time.
Never banned.
Bhvr doesn't discuss bans so if someone was banned for this specific reason not many people would know about it. But it's besides the point, last info was that it's reportable and it's something that has previously been confirmed multiple times. So unless there has been a recent change which means it's not reportable then it still is as far as I can see. Difficulty in proving it might come into it but it's still reportable
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858089#Comment_3858089
I reported the 2 survivors who held me hostage and I don't know if BHVR ever did anything about it.
The thing is it's much much harder to prove survivors are holding the game hostage than it is to prove the killer and another survivor are teaming. All you gotta do is take a quick video clip of it happening and send it in. Much harder to do when survivors are hiding and refusing to progress the objective.
Either way both are against the rules. It's just that if the hatch was removed as a mechanic, it's basically the only option the survivor would have. That or just walk up to the killer and wait to die.
I would say it's harder to prove survivor is working with killer, all killer has to do is chase that survivor while they are lead to the other person. Chase is part of the game 🤷♂️ killer can't help it if they can't down them then "oh look the other survivor"
I agree without hatch the survivor would have the choice of walk up to killer or hide. But my point is they have that choice now even with the hatch. It just happens sooner. Walking to the killer would be the best way to go next after a lost match... They could try doing gens even tho they know it's a death sentence. Or after a while of hiding give aura so killer can at least chase them. Or maybe after 4min of hiding the egc automatically kicks in to minimise time wasted.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858075#Comment_3858075
If both survivors hide long enough for the Killer to DC both would get an escape when the Killer DCs. If the Killer finds one then the last survivor would just continue hiding instead of the Killer being able to force an EGC by closing the Hatch.
If your concern is in the two survivors hiding example wasting time a more constructive solution would be crows starting on the basis of no activities to progress the game (eg no gens touched, no chases, no heals etc) after x minutes instead of essentially going AFK in usually a locker starting the crows timer.
It's important to note though that in terms of player behaviour, attitudes and motivation there's no difference between Killers who slug the second last survivor and survivors who'll hide in the hopes of getting Hatch. It's the same type of behaviour just expressed differently because of the game role.
Slugging and hiding are very different, slugging is acceptable at any point in the match. Avoiding the objective for a prolonged time (not doing gens) is called holding game hostage as it doesn't progress the match and doesn't allow normal gameplay. This alone shows they are very different.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858051#Comment_3858051
By "rat" do you mean accidentally expose their location or intentionally?
Because never ever ever work with a survivor trying to rat out their ally. Even if you think it's justified.
That is considered teaming and if the survivor they helped you find knows that and knows how to submit a report to BHVR, you get suspended.
Its equally an offence to hide forever avoiding the objectives so if they did report that survivor to bhvr they would be shooting themselves in the foot as bhvr would also see that they have been holding the game hostage.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855349#Comment_3855349
??? Hatch encourages matches to end, brother. Without it you'd be complaining about matches dragging on forever.
Which, funnily enough, is exactly how killers are using the hatch mechanic.
Interestingly that's what survivors are doing, making matches go on forever...they just do it when it's 2 v 1 and hide instead of when it's last survivor left. So it encourages people to hide. The best way I can explain it is from my point of view playing survivor... When it's 2 v 1 and I know gens can't be completed, what am I going to do? How do I win? Answer is hide, survive longer than the other player to get the hatch. If they are hiding too then it becomes a long long match. Now if the hatch is removed.... 2 Players left, me and another guy. Gens can't be done. What am I going to do? Hide with no point to it? Hatch wouldn't exist so I'm not going to hide forever in a match I have lost and can't escape, I'm going to attempt to do gens, maybe end the match with a chase so I can go next.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858001#Comment_3858001
If the Killer DCs it's an automatic escape for the Survivors. So, if a Survivor wants to be as stubborn as the Killers that slug for a 4K, why not hide and see if you can get the Killer to DC and get an escape? That's what the Hatch with EGC prevents. If there are so many people so unnecessarily invested in a casual match they'll waste minutes of another person's life by slugging the second last survivor instead of just hooking and moving on what makes you think there wouldn't be multiple people so unnecessarily invested in winning they wouldn't hide in bushes until the server shut down?
Go take a look at a video of the old Hatch standoffs and see how much fun they would have been.
How does the hatch prevent this when survivors do the same thing when it's 2 v 1? I'm aware some would hide regardless, just like some killers will slug regardless but less people would do it if they didn't have a reason
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@Zakon05 said:
The hatch exists for your protection as the killer as well as offering the final survivor a last chance at escape.
If the hatch wasn't a thing, the 4th survivor has no real hope of escaping. But they can waste your time by playing hide-and-seek. You really don't want that. A survivor who doesn't want to be found is impossible to find without aura reading. There are lots of ways to keep the AFK crows away.
I was held hostage in a match once on Swamp for 30 minutes by two survivors who decided to get back at me for winning by making it impossible to find them rather than progressing the game. Do you really want to put up with that every time there's 1 survivor left but the gens aren't done?
I don't think the hatch offers the killer any protection, all it does is activate egc when closed and gives survivors a reason to hide imo. The only advantage the hatch has is that it makes survivors hiding for eternity happen sooner (at 2 survivors left instead of 1) this is handy as killer as there is another survivor that can and often will rat out the other guy. This can't be done if there is 1 survivor left.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858012#Comment_3858012
The mori and BP are basically inconsequential though. And yes, in 2v1s sometimes both survivors will hide which is an issue, which is why I think there should be a mechanic when exactly 2 survivors are alive and not slugged or hooked where they will be revealed with killer instinct if they don't interact with a generator or killer power every… 60 seconds?
Hatch and EGC existing prevents more hiding than it causes though, I'd say. There are plenty of situations where I've made it to a 1v1 and I'm able to find and close hatch where before I'd have to stand on top of it until the server closes if I really cared about a 4k. Hatch standoffs were awful.
I don't see how BP and Mori is more inconsequential than an invisible number that no one can see and is widely regarded as broken which is why new players are going against people with over 2000 hours.
I do agree that survivors should get crows easier or aura revealed somehow when they are intentionally hiding. But in my experience as killer a huge proportion of matches go the same way, tunnel 1 survivor out, by the time 2nd is out it's usually down to maybe 1 or 2 gens left. Then it's hide and seek. Many times 3rd survivor will rat out the 4th to get the match over with but in a lot of cases they will both hide.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858001#Comment_3858001
Because stalemates are a design flaw, and that's what a 2v1 without hatch is. It shouldn't be over for them because this is a PVP video game, not a killer power fantasy. The game pacing should never depend on one side conceding.
Personally, I don't get slugging for a 4k at all. I can't remember the last time I did it. It's an unranked public match. Take a 3k, save everyone 5 minutes, and go next. If I get the 4k, cool.
I agree it is a design flaw but the fact that 2 survivors can hide without touching gens and avoiding crows for up to an hour is the same stalemate that would exist without the hatch. Difference being people hide for a reason which is the hatch. If there is no reason, no hatch then why would they hide?
You say take the 3k and go next... Why is it down to the killer to walk away from a potential kill? Why doesn't the survivors that are hiding think "take the loss, save everyone like 30min and go next?" They don't, they will hide it out for as long as possible. That's why it's handy when a survivor rats out the hidden survivor. It gets the match over quicker.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857942#Comment_3857942
I explained it and I understand people doing it. This is not the same as justifying. People cannot properly surrender/leave the game. In Starcraft 2 I hit F10+N and be out of the match. What do survivors have to do here? They are at the mercy of the killer. Great.
That means they admit defeat
This is wrong since the game is kind of weird in its 1v1v1v1v1 setup and hatch exists which is, of course, why you would want the latter gone. There is a clear flaw here and you are the one justifying "petty" behaviour. Carrying survivors neither hooking them nor letting them bleed out could just as well be considered Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience and Holding the game hostage. That's two out of three points in the griefing category. If what you say is true and they confirmed that BS to be okay then the rules are even more of a joke than I thought.
Well, we agree there is an issue but at least you, as a killer player, get to punish gamers for the flaws of the game. Anyway, I won't keep you any longer from any more 4Ks. Sounds like you need them.
I believe the greifing aspect applies to targeting an individual across multiple matches. For example tunneling an individual all match is not greifing, but intentionally targeting the same survivor, tunneling them specifically across multiple matches is greifing. I only justify my petty behaviour in response to petty behaviour by the survivor. If survivors didn't hide I would simply slug 3rd and try find the last one in 4min. But if after about 3min I see no attempt to do gens or heal the team mate that's when I escalate it. I agree something needs to be done to prevent this from happening. This is on bhvr, the hatch, the rules, the game as a whole.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
Internally, hatch is treated as a draw. The survivor doesn't gain or lose MMR for using it and you don't lose MMR for them leaving through it. The only reason to go out of your way to slug in a 2v1 (when you don't know where the other guy is) is if you need an achievement/challenge that requires a 4k or you are doing it for ego's sake. The latter is a huge issue in the game on both sides that can make casual play miserable.
By the way OP, this tends to happen in 2v1s even if both are doing gens. A majority of the time, killers will do it because they want the 4k, not because the other guy is hiding. It's nonsensical for me to blame my teammates or the hatch (which is a good mechanic btw, without it last guy hides for 10 years) for the killer actively choosing to bleed someone out to get a 4k.
You forgot the 4k gives Mori and more BP. Also I say again, last guy will hide for 10 years with the 3rd survivor and that's because both are hoping the other dies…why? Because they both want hatch. So having the hatch as a mechanic doesn't prevent that, it just gives more reason to hide.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857882#Comment_3857882
Let's think about this critically for a few seconds: assuming hatch didn't exist, what is the outcome of a 2v1 scenario? Do survivors suddenly have an incentive to not hide? Why should the game be over for the survivors in a 2v1?
A 3k is quite literally counted as a win by the game. That is not an opinion. Your MMR increases on a 3k. It's treated as a win.
You're free to slug for a 4k. But if you're going to do it, you should be ok with people being irritated that you're wasting everyone's time when you do it. It's basic social EQ. If you play a game with other people, many are not going to want to play with you if you play a certain way.
Assuming the hatch didn't exist what would the incentive be to hide? If 2 survivors acknowledge they can't win then why shouldn't the game be over for them? 3k is only treated as a win in regards to MMR, an invisible number that no one has any idea what number it is. However 3k doesn't give mori, doesn't count towards certain achievements and doesn't give as many BP as 4k. So in this regard, 3k isn't considered a win.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857853#Comment_3857853
I'm not okay with that. I think it is a major flaw in the design maybe the biggest in the entire game. The last survivor should have a chance to do something and the second to last shouldn't have to go afk for half of a regular trial or even until server timeout if killer decides to carry them around which is bannable iirc or at least it should be.
Survivors hide when they realistically can't do anything which is the case in a 2v1. Bhvr conveniently shifts the responsibility to the survivors simply saying 'go forth and die' and so do you. Cool. Even if survivors actually wanted to do gens in a 2v1 it would have to be so unbelievably slow and careful that server timeout would become a real opponent. Depending on the map/what gens are left/killer this isn't even possible in the first place. And then there is the fact that killers are allowed to kick gens. Even with the regression limit it should be impossible to get anything done.
You're saying you don't agree with it but at the same time justifying the hiding. You said it yourself, survivors hide when they realistically can't do anything else... That means they admit defeat but refuse to get the match over with. If at that point survivors acknowledge they can no longer complete the objectives then it's checkmate time to wrap up and get the match over with not deliberately hide prolonging the match. When people hide in this manner, and only then.... That's when I fight back petty behaviour with petty behaviour and intentionally keep the 3rd alive as long as possible to make sure their hiding ways won't work.
Also it's been confirmed that carrying a survivor around the map is not reportable as the survivor has the ability to wiggle free if they wish, therefore the killer is not holding the game hostage. No different to the take bhvr has in a locker stand off with Myers. If a survivor is in a locker and refuses to come out because they want to deny Myers the tombstone but Myers is standing outside the locker waiting for them to come out, that's not reportable as both sides have the option to get out of the situation if they choose to. It's only reportable as taking the game hostage if 1 side prevents the other from taking part in normal gameplay and doesn't progress the match, which is why hiding for a prolonged time period is considered reportable as it doesn't progress the match and the killer can't do anything about it other than search for however long.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857321#Comment_3857321
If there are multiple gens left, that button is pretty much a guaranteed loss for the survivor because they can't finish the gens in time or leave even if given the choice. At that point, the button may as well just instantly kill the remaining survivor. Or better yet, if there's still gens left on the map when 3 survivors are dead, the last survivor immediately dies as well. If we're placing the last survivor into a situation they can't win from literally no matter what they do, may as well make it quick, this game already wastes enough time as it is. But at the same time, wouldn't it be a little boring that the last survivor just immediately dies too?
I just don't see the harm in the killer simply leaving the match with a BP bonus from the basement glyph. At that point, does it even matter if the survivor lives or dies? The survivor team lost. If it's very important, maybe the survivor wouldn't get any extra BP for escaping if the killer chooses to do this, and it wouldn't show up as an escape on the scoreboard because the killer "gifted" it to them.
The only thing I don't like about hatch is the randomness of it, and how gate spawns can make it either super easy or super hard to prevent the last survivor from escaping after the third is dead. I'd much rather have the option to either cash in the 3k through a glyph, or even challenge the survivor to a chase directly for the 4k, whoever wins gets a nice BP bonus. Is it that important that the 4th survivor dies to feel like you've won the match? Anything after the 3k is just formalities at that point, the game is over, why make it feel hopeless and pointless for the last survivor by locking them into a 2 minute EGC they can't even escape from no matter what?
I understand survivors shouldn't be forced into staying in a match they lost and literally can't win. So survivors should have a way to leave the match but not escape. So a glyph that both killer and survivor can interact with that would kill the survivor instantly would be ideal. If survivor wants to leave with no penalty they can and killer won't be able to keep them in the match. Likewise if killer wants to wrap up the match then they can kill the last survivor and not spend crazy amount of time hunting for them. The glyph could activate a special mori. Personally it wouldn't be any more boring than searching the map for the last 2 hiding.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856867#Comment_3856867
According to you survivors are nothing more than your playthings whose agency doesn't matter. This entire second paragraph is disgusting.
Lmao yet your ok with survivors doing exactly the same thing to killers by hiding for an hour not doing gens, avoiding crows, knowing they can't win, for no reason other than spite and to be toxic? Double standards much? It sounds to me like you want to be able to be toxic and waste the killers time but don't like it when the killer can do it back.
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Tunnel, tunnel and tunnel... It works. Also proxi camp with Pyramid head, when a survivor goes for the unhook use secondary attack to hit both of them. If timed well you can follow up with a standard attack on the unhooked survivor and hook them again. The survivor unhooking will need to heal before trying again or it will result in potentially both survivors being downed fast.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857456#Comment_3857456
I agree with the sentiment but not only is this the rarest situation in my experience, it also doesn't invalidate the need for a hatchlike mechanic unless you want to farm your winstreak by killing the first survivor at 4gens and have the others come to you to call it every 3 minutes. This isn't Evolve and thus is not a literal 4v1 for soloQ anyway.
The only really weird thing about your scenario is it is somehow intended yet bannable if you take it to the extreme.
What part is bannable? If 3 survivors don't feel they can do 4 gens and want to throw in the towel then yes I would rather accept their surrender, get the 4k and move on. Saves the usual slugging for 4k, could just kill 3rd survivor then look for the 4th as normal. They can either try do gens or if they can't do them then admit defeat and move on. Or hide but with no hatch mechanic I don't see much reason to hide other than to be toxic.
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If I'm in a situation where I know survivors are at the gate, I leave them there to wait with no interaction or tbag to me. Instead I go round the map smashing left over pallets or doors or sometimes the occasional boon. Bit of extra BP for me so the longer they wait at the gate the better really
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857325#Comment_3857325
Maybe if you write "free escape" once more you might actually convince someone it was indeed free. You would have a point if the game treated survivors as a team.
The fact that as a survivor I could do nothing all match, possibly deliberately sabotage my team so I'm last man standing with a shot at getting a hatch is a free escape...not a guarantee escape but it's still a free escape as I would have done nothing other than be first to find a hatch especially with the rng meaning it's possible for hatch to spawn right under the survivors feet. It can even be opened with a key when killer closes it and tracked with a map. If survivors want to escape it should be earned by doing gens and working as a team.... Failing that they failed the objective, killer wins. Not do literally nothing all match and still escape. And for as long as that unearned escape exists killers will find ways to prevent it such as slugging the 3rd or keeping them alive to make sure the hatch doesn't spawn while they look for the 4th.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856405#Comment_3856405
Or, we make the main objective more accessible relative to how many survivors there are left so survivors don’t feel the need to hide out for the hatch. That is the REAL reason we end up in this statemate.
If the hatch were removed survivors would still try and escape via the doors, which would see an increase in sole survivor and wake up, and then Killers would moan they need to be nerfed. The conversation would then become ‘I need to slug because of Sole Survivor and Wake Up’ when the real reason they’re slugging is the reason they’re doing it now - they want an easy 4K. There’s always an excuse, but that’s always the reason.
That's why survivors shouldn't have a free escape at the end no matter what it is, hatch or doors. If a free escape is an option the killer will do whatever they need to in order to prevent it. If gens can't be done due to not enough survivors to win then the match is won by the killer so make it easier for the killer to wrap it up and move on. Not give survivors incentive to drag out a match they lost. When the match is clearly won by the killer the killer needs a way to start the egc.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856564#Comment_3856564
We need to think extremes before doing something as drastic as removing the hatch. Think worst case. If you meet a bunch of new players, and 3k at 5 gens, what is the worst you could do to the remaining survivor? You could follow them as they finish all 5 gens, then kill them the moment they've opened the exit gate. You could do literally anything you wanted with them with zero natural way for the game to end other than them to finish gens or you to kill them.
You could wait for them to do gens, grab them and drop them, over and over to make sure they never bled out.
The worst you can do now is stand on top of hatch, which personally I don't get why it doesn't auto close to prevent stalling like that. Without hatch, I assure you that survivors would give up way, way more frequently. And at the same time, the 2v1 situation may actually get worse. Because there's one more reason to hide and prevent a 4k: To spite the killer and waste their time. In fact, the 1v1 could get worse too. How many survivors just run to a corner and hide once 3 players are dead, and wait out the entire EGC? Who knows how long these players would be willing to hide in a corner with no EGC to kill them.
Removing hatch would be bad for both sides. I have much more faith in incentivizing a 3k. How about this: After 3 survivors are dead, the killer can go to basement, interact with a glyph, and simply leave the match, also getting a nice BP bonus along with it, officially "winning" the game. Then the last survivor would be left alone in the trial and can leave or die as they please. If the gens weren't done, this would count as a 4k in terms of stats.
That way, killers have zero reason to slug for the 4k because at 3k, they've already won and can also leave the match without feeling like the fourth person "got away". What do you think about that?
The worst I could do as killer that you described without the hatch, I can do that with the hatch... just do it in 2 v 1 situations. So instead of getting 3k to be in that position it's 2k currently. What I suggest isn't only removal of the hatch but swapping it for a button similar to a glyph you mentioned that the killer and survivor can press instead of the hatch which activates egc. Instead of giving survivors a free escape and a reason to hide for the free escape and a reason for the killer to slug to prevent a free escape, it would be a simple button or glyph on the map that would start the countdown. If it's down to last survivor and there are multiple gens left, they have lost and should die one way or another not given a free escape.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3854555#Comment_3854555
Judging by how pips are calculated actually, yeah, a 3k is a win. You're incorrect. If it ups your MMR and pips you, then it's a win. The definition of a win is "not a tie or a loss". A 2k is a tie, and a 1k is considered a loss.
But reminder - the game calculates kills itself as a 1v1 against an individual Survivor. So a 1k is also a win on that one Survivor. You're not judged for how many you Kill necessarily, the game sees a 1k as 1 win and a 4k as 4 wins. You're just supposed to Kill as many as you can or want to, not "kill 'em all". That's a holdover from when you could lose pips. You can't anymore.
I think part of the issue is that a win/loss isn't clearly identified after the match so a win is up to the individual to interpret it as a win. For example some feel 3k is a win based on MMR going up as a result. Some feel 4k is a win based on the bonus BP and achievements 4k results in. Some even believe 2k against a 4man swf is a win as they stopped the whole team getting out. Survivor are the same, some teams believe they win by getting everyone out. Some believe they win via hatch (even tho it doesn't count positively for MMR) some even believe it's a win if they can simply loop the killer the whole match and be the sole survivor. Some people believe a win is getting most BP score post match regardless if they survived or not.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856867#Comment_3856867
I'm not trying to "swing" it. - It's really quite simple and straightforward? "It is reportable as it isn't progressing the match" — absolutely - but you do realise that it becomes reportable only once a certain time has passed without progressing the objective? Which also goes for both killer and surv? - Or are you seriously suggesting killers and survs run on different timers?
there is no such thing as "more petty" - just as there is no thing such as "more illegal". - But if there was I suppose your reaction would even top the survivor's one.
But hey, the way you express your thoughts already tells me all I need to know and am really glad this is just a game and not something actually important where I'd feel compelled to argue with you. So… I guess have a nice day?I'm aware the time scale applies to killers too, I never claimed it didn't lol. But you claimed slugging isn't progressing the match when it does. And there is technically a thing called more petty and more illegal... It's called severity. Depending on the severity depends on the punishment. And in that regard yes my actions of pettiness can top the survivors actions. When looking at it that way, is it really worth it for a survivor to be petty out of spite?
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856502#Comment_3856502
Well, since we already know that slugging a surv for the full duratrion isn't reportable for holding the game hostage or not progressing the match (there are hooks, you know) - then a surv is also not reportable for holding the game hostage or not progressing the match if they wait out said timer. After that the objective has changed; to progress the game they gotta look for hatch. If the killer finds the hatch first then the objective changes yet again - but again with a timer so that "taking the game hostage" is impossible (that's the primary purpose of egc).
The killer is petty when they go out of their way to slug for 4k. - Responding to that in an equally petty way by denying them the mori and the 4k-with-agency (dying to egc certainly isn't to the killer's credit) seems only fair. A kill by egc is even more free and less earned than an escape via hatch. I mean, sure, if it helps a killer player feel better about themselves they can tack than on their record and be all braggy and proud about a 4k but, eh.
If there is a timer the survivor can wait it out if they wish, if the hatch has spawned then the objective shifts from gens to hatch. But if there is no egc timer, no hatch has spawned and the survivor still avoids the gens then that is reportable as it doesn't progress the match. There is a big difference between egc timer and server end timer and sever ends after 1 hour. Slugging does progress the match as it has a bleed out timer similar to hook timer. The timer is longer but it's still a timer and it still progresses the match when that timer expires. It doesn't what way you try and swing it, survivors avoiding gens when hatch is not available is
Some might call it petty to slug for 4k but the fact that killers do this for a reason (4k and mori) and survivors try to deny it for no reason other than spite shows the survivor being way more petty imo. That's exactly why I keep 3rd survivor alive for as long as possible carry them around the map if need be because that last survivor is not only wasting my time, they are wasting their own time and the 3rd survivors time by hiding. Usually the 3rd survivor will get fed up and lead me to the 4th so I get the 4k and end the match. If a survivor wants to be petty and drag it out for the whole hour that's fine by me, but I'm not sure the 3rd survivor would appreciate being held in the match as a result.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
I just played 10 Survivor games tonight. You know how many Killers did this? How many actually did this?
0.Not a single one.
You're being disingenuous or you're hilariously unlucky. This simply doesn't happen as often as you think it does.
I think mmr and time of the day plays a part in the frequency it happens. As survivor killers have slugged me to get my team mate and also slugged my team mate to hunt for me very often....it happens a lot.
Also I played multiple matches as killer tonight, every single match that it was an option, I slugged the 3rd to find the 4th. 3 of the matches i actively kept the slug alive by carrying them around the map with me. And all 3 times I did this the 3rd survivor had enough and lead me to the 4th survivor to get the match over with. It happens a lot, if you haven't had it happen to you then you have been very lucky lol.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856560#Comment_3856560
No need for all this whataboutism. It does not matter if killer has separate issues, or whether or not you think it is justified because of whatever the killer could have experienced. What matters in this conversation is "survivors can be left on the floor and have to wait 4 minutes to die, unable to speed it up. Should this remain unchanged?" And the answer is no.
If you can be put in a situation in a multiplayer game where you have lost but have to wait 4 minutes to fully "lose" and be able to go to the next match (and can't do anything about it), that is an issue. And the fix is simple: after 60 seconds on the ground, allow a "bleed self out" option. Some may argue a survivor could use this to go next - that is fine, survivors can already do this on the ground by holding shift to avoid being healed.
Yep I'm fine with that, slugging someone for 60 seconds beats hooking them so as long as this 60 second rule doesn't apply during 2 v 1 situations then it's all good. Because if I'm at risk of losing 4th survivor to a hatch due to 3rd bleeding self out trying to give hatch to their team mate then I would actively keep both alive for as long as possible until I'm confident I can down both.
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@hinney said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856248#Comment_3856248
Yeah, and that's also a toxicity issue. I don't see how that negates my point at all.
It doesn't negate your point, just saying it happens on both sides. It's unfortunate and it's not right to be toxic for the sake of being toxic but both sides have to learn to deal with it
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856498#Comment_3856498
Slugging isn’t exclusive to hatch, and the idea that removing hatch would stop slugging seems unrealistic based on past events. Despite the introduction of antislugging, anti-tunneling and anti-camping mechanics, these strategies are still widely used because they are the easiest and often most efficient ways to secure kills. Killers still slug and tunnel at 5 gens, and camping persists in various forms, like proxy camping or teleporting, because these tactics are low-risk and highly effective.
Removing hatch won’t stop slugging, it just makes achieving a 4K easier. Being able to deny several survivor perks from ever activating is a huge advantage that can be accomplished without hooking at all. The core issue isn’t hatch—it’s the lack of incentives for killers to prioritize hooks over outright kills. Strategies like slugging, tunneling, and camping are symptoms of the win condition that BHVR has established where kills are prioritized above all else. Since slugging already happens because it’s easy, removing hatch would only make an easy strategy even easier, which wouldn’t solve problems both “sides” struggle with.
I'm not saying hatch is the sole reason for slugging. Much like when the Mori update was released, loads were saying get rid of it because now killers are slugging more than ever. Hatch is the same, it gives reason to slug. I'm just saying reduce the reasons why a killer would slug and you would find slugging as a whole would reduce...not stop but urviviors would see less of it. Like me, I wouldn't slug anywhere near as much as I do if mori and hatch didn't give me a reason to. Some will slug regardless but people like me wouldn't slug as much.
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@Tsanders said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856506#Comment_3856506
Survivors can hide indefinitely in 2 v 1 situations... Why should a killer be forced into that situation?
The issue that I'm having here, is that survivors can't hide indefinitely. If a survivor isn't moving around enough they get crows and then it is much easier to locate them. If the survivors aren't getting crows it means they are actively moving around, and playing the game. Sure they might not be doing gens to escape but they are still playing. Now if the survivors are moving around enough to avoid getting crows it means they can slip up and get spotted in which case you are able to chase and, hopefully, down them.
Often times in post like these killers always tell the survivors if they don't want to get slugged they just need to waste perk slots for unbreakable, as if that one time use perk is going to do anything against a killer determined to slug anyway.
Killers have access to so many more perks to help you find survivors. Maybe just work some more aura reading into you build so you don't end up in a time wasting game of hide and seek.
Moving around isn't playing the game, if it was then survivors would be able to simply move around and still win. It's easy for a survivor to simply crouch and swap lockers to avoid crows. So without aura reading yes survivors can and do wait until server ends which is especially an issue in swf as people communicate where the killer is making it very easy to avoid being caught especially on large maps. As I have previously said why use a perk slot when I can achieve 4k without it? I don't need to find the survivors because when server ends they get sacrificed anyway. If they want to waste time for the sake of it they have that choice but it doesn't accomplish anything
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856506#Comment_3856506
I guess I just don't understand why every time someone creates a topic like this showing a clear problem with a clear solution, you immediately jump to mention that survivors can be toxic.
Like yes we know survivors are toxic, the point of this topic is not to say that only killers are toxic, it is to ask BHVR to fix a basic problem in the game that has a very basic solution with almost no drawback.
The other problems you mention - survivors hiding indefinitely for hatch or tbagging indefinitely at the gates - are also problems, yes. No one denies it. Survivors hiding for the hatch does not have an obvious solution though, unlike toxic slugging, so that's why people argue with you. Not because they don't want the problem to be solved. Tbagging at the gate on the other hand has an easy solution imo which is to let the killer leave the match without penalty in endgame, if you want BHVR to implement that then go ahead and make your thread, I'll approve.
I'm all for give up option. But it will lead to more slugging as killers would be pushing for people to give up instead of getting hooks or wait for bleed out. I know if survivors started to give up when slugged I would slug more lol.
Now this is a really contradictory argument. Survivors HAVE a give up option, when you hook them. So by your logic it should to you hooking all the time instead of slugging? then why are here you are constantly defending slugging.
Besides, you say: if you could find a way to make survivors give up, then you would do it more, like what? What is the appeal of playing against AFK opponents? This is a multiplayer game, if no one wants to play with you, you should consider it a serious problem, not something to be proud of.
I bring up the fact survivors can be toxic too because there isn't anything that can be done to stop it. Can't force survivors to not t bag at the gate, can't force killers to not hump someone on the ground. It's something both sides have to deal with like or not. Survivors hiding for the hatch has a solution, remove the hatch removed the need to hide. Yes people can still hide but the hatch gives them a reason to do it other being toxic. Hooking does have a similar effect which survivors can and do suicide on hook. Happens often when I tunnel someone out right at the start. The goal is to win, if survivors admit defeat then it's time to move on to the next match and try again. Doesn't matter to me if they quit and get replaced by a bot, if they suicide on hook due to being tunneled or suicide by bleed out. But slugging would mean less time hooking someone so more chance they would give up quicker.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856498#Comment_3856498
Why dont you run perks like whispers or spies then? You always find and say the same excuse for slugging camping and tunneling in anyand every post.
I take it too your the same one who complains about survivors dcing or giving up or swf bullies? Have you no shame that even though a handful of people who see through your poor attempts at justifying said play stylesa signal?
Ok remove the hatch and finisher mori one of the exit gates will be half open then or better yet remove the hatch and enjoy being stuck in game till server close since no hatch = no egc. You should be careful what you ask for.
I could run whispers but I don't see why I should take up a whole perk slot to achieve something I can get without it. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. I don't tunnel or slug or camp for no reason. I definitely don't hump survivors on the ground. My actions are reactions to the usual match I experience. I honestly have no shame in playing the game according to the rules, I'm not cheating or hacking or doing anything reportable.
I'm not sure how people are not seeing this.... No hatch means no egc... Thats exactly what happens in 2 v 1 situations except a killer has to slug to prevent hatch from spawning. With no hatch killer has no need to slug as there would be no hatch to stop spawning. I don't complain about DC survivors, sometimes bots play better than the people lol the only thing I dislike is the speed that gens can be completed but even that I just accept it and deal with it by tunneling and using noed. Sooo no real issues my end. I'm fine tunneling and slugging and doing what I need to do, it's survivors that don't like it but refuse to see why killers do what they do.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856502#Comment_3856502
Yes people always bring up a statement one community manager for Bhvr. made years ago when the game was totally in a different state than it is now and without context. Can you give me one example of anyone banned or even warned for "not doing gens" and trying to survive as long as possible? Probably not because even Bhvr. knows it would be absurd to ban a player for doing their objective. And even if Bhvr. did decide to take the killer favoritism to new heights and actually ban a survivor player for trying to survive, I would never follow such a rule and would force Bhvr. to ban me as well. I will not be forced to give killers a free kill. I always make it a point to waste as much time of any killer who slugs for the 4k as possible since they are wasting my time with their petty "3k is not good enough" attitude.
Bhvr doesn't comment on bans so if someone was banned for that reason people probably wouldn't know about the actual reason. Like I said, you do you but if you think your having the last laugh by wasting the killers time, I assure you your not lol. Your wasting your own time by achieving the same goal which is a loss for yourself. I am happy and have done so many times to wait until server ends. I get my 4k in the end. What do you get out of it? A very slow death lol. Doesn't make sense to me but you do you
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856205#Comment_3856205
Do you even play survivor? Because it doesn't seem so.
You keep coming in every thread like this, missing the point, and defending killers when that's not what anyone is talking about.
The complaint is not about tactical slugging or slugging vs. coordinated 4-man SWFs.
The complaint is about slugging in an ALREADY WON GAME being miserable for survivors who just want to leave the match.
Every soloQ player has experienced this at some point, even those who don't play survivor often.
Otzdarva literally mentioned it 2 days ago, and he's a killer main:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQtf9jXChag&t=290s
The clip below happened on Scott Jund & Zubat's stream last night, it made Zubat leave for the night.
Watch this, and explain me if this is tactically justified:
https://www.twitch.tv/scottjund/clip/SuaveHeadstrongBatteryCharlieBitMe-BiJaqLckpCoElxP-
That's 2 streamers being stuck for 4 minutes, and more than 1000+ viewers being forced to watch this. It's ridiculous.
There is no reason for a person to be forced to wait up to FOUR MINUTES in a video game. Literally everyone knows this is an issue, except BHVR. Players have been asking for a "give up" button for years at this point, and it's baffling that it's still not there.
Tactically not justified in that clip but then neither is t bagging at the gate. Some killers are just not nice people like some survivors are not nice people... I personally wouldn't hump like that but I would slug and go round smashing left over pallets and doors for extra bp. Survivors can hide indefinitely in 2 v 1 situations... Why should a killer be forced into that situation? It is what it is, I have been slugged and I have ensured server end timer. Difference being that slugging isn't reportable as it does have a timer. I'm all for give up option. But it will lead to more slugging as killers would be pushing for people to give up instead of getting hooks or wait for bleed out. I know if survivors started to give up when slugged I would slug more lol.
Also being a survivor main for 2 years I do understand the pains of survivors especially in soloq. But I play killer too so I can see both sides, and more often than not survivors usually bring it on themselves.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856405#Comment_3856405
I don't care what you claim is "reportable", i am going to keep hiding as long as possible and try to keep the killer from getting a kill every time they try to slug for the 4k. I make it my goal to die to the endgame timer rather than the petty killer employing these tactics. If I was to get banned for that then that's when I would probably quit the game for good. Mandy, is it reportable or bannable for me to play my role as survivor and try to survive as long as possible and keep the killer from getting a kill? Essentially, I guess what I am asking is is it reportable to not give the killer a free kill? Whatever anybody answers to this, whether they work for Bhvr. or not I'm going to keep playing the same way unless I get banned or killers stop cheesily slugging for the 4k.
It's not what I claim it's what the Devs have claimed many times lol. You can drag the match out as long as you want but every time a survivor does that I make it go to server end time which means both survivors get automatically sacrificed. You put yourself in a lose lose situation because killer gets the 4k regardless.
Also your goal as survivor is to escape. Do gens then escape. If hatch is available then goal is escape hatch. If no hatch has spawned the goal remains to do gens. Avoiding gens for a prolonged time is avoiding the objective and not progressing the game. This has been stated many times.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856405#Comment_3856405
Remove the hatch, remove the reason to slug the 3rd.
Removing the hatch will also remove the reason for Survivors to keep playing after a bad start (and many are already having difficulty with that as it is). If 2v1 means the Survivors have already lost the match, then why does the match continue at that point? What would they do if there's no hatch and no chance to complete the last three gens? Perhaps continue to hide for eternity, or until the match naturally times out? What an easy 4k that would be for the Killer, especially if they tunnel out the first Survivor.
Removing the hatch will cause more problems than it solves, and I can guarantee that no one will even want to queue for Survivor matches if this came to be.
The match continues at 2 v 1 because both survivors hide indefinitely either to waste killers time or to hope the other survivor dies so the last one can get hatch. Remove the hatch and the only reason to hide will be out of toxicity. Fact is hatch gives a reason to hide. Just like hatch gives a reason to slug. As long as hatch exists killers will slug the 3rd and even keep the 3rd alive to prevent hatch spawningnso they can find last survivor. As a killer I'm fine doing that or waiting untill server time runs out if need be. Survivors want the hatch, they can have slugging that goes with it
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856421#Comment_3856421
They can, for now. But they shouldn't. Its done without reason.
Imagine a different example: a player wants to insult everyone, his teammates and the killer, in the post-game chat. They can do that, of course. But should they? No, of course not.
how does a killer manage to slug a whole team in that way?
Hillbilly. One who knew how to play. Who definitely could have won without slugging.
Why has no one healed any team mates?
I tried to.
TBF I hate going against billy lol I don't think your example applies here as insulting people in a chat provides nothing to the goal of the game. Slugging does as it's a method to win. Not a fun method for survivors granted but if it works it works.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856205#Comment_3856205
I don't think that is correct. Here is an example I can give:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O12P8XXSZUUO/image.png
This was shortly after the Halloween event.
Clearly no gen rushing there. All four of us were solo queue players, no one had a flashlight, no one tbagged, no one tried to bodyblock because the killer didn't try to hook anyone until all four were down. No one was downed under a pallet, and iirc, no one had the Flashbang perk.
There is nothing that explains this situation except for the killer choosing to slug, which is usually the only reason these games happen.
Killers can choose to slug if they wish, it can be an effective method and the image shows the killer is picking a survivor up so likely to pick the rest up (if they can be found). It doesn't seem like that killer in the image is sluggish out of toxicity. My question remains tho, how does a killer manage to slug a whole team in that way? Why has no one healed any team mates? Not much difference to being hooked and no one going for the unhook. If killer was camping them then it gives 4min for others to do gens at least. From my experience if a whole team of 4 gets slugged like that it's skill issues on the survivor side.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856393#Comment_3856393
Hatch IS a win for the survivor. It may not be for MMR, but that's not something that's even shown to the player. The game tells the survivor they won, and awards them a huge chunk of BP which they wouldn't otherwise get.
Not to mention that without the hatch, there'd be no reason to play it out, and the only option the survivor would be left with is trolling for time and hoping you can frustrate the killer into a disconnect.
The scenario you mention where survivors troll for time hoping to make killer DC exists even with the hatch… it exists in 2 v 1. The reason it exists is because both survivors want the hatch they both hide indefinitely. Having the hatch makes no difference in this regard, just gives survivors more incentive to hide without touching gens earlier in the match which is a reportable offence.
If hatch is considered a win then a killer is faced with a choice, allow a survivor that has done nothing all match, hidden the whole time hoping for a hatch escape to win? Or slug the last 2 and get the 4k not permitting the win for a survivor that clearly shouldn't get a win for doing nothing?
Also you say it is win for a survivor even tho not for MMR... Well 3k isn't a win for killers in some killers eyes... just further gives reason to go for 4k if the killer doesn't feel like 3k is a win
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Said it many times, way before mori update... Hatch gives reason to slug. Remove the hatch, remove the reason to slug the 3rd. It's also partly due to survivors hiding and avoiding gens for so long when it's 2 v 1 with multiple gens left knowing they lost the match (which is reportable). The killer needs more time to find the hiding survivor. So what is a killer to do? Kill the 3rd fast and allow the last rule breaking survivor to get a cheap hatch escape? Hell no lol if a survivor is going to play that way and hide then I will keep the 3rd survivor alive for as long as necessary to find the 4th.
As for how do you expect 1 survivor to do gens? You don't. If gens are not done and your whole team is wiped out then you have lost the match regardless if you get hatch or not as hatch isn't considered a win. accept it for the loss that it is, get it over with quickly and move onto the next match.
Always boils down to the argument of "greedy killers wanting 4k when they win v entitled survivors that want a hatch win when they lost"
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856289#Comment_3856289
There is a certain cut-off point where killers have to admit that the thing ruining the game is themselves. There is no reason to slug for the 4K because a 3K is already a win and likely has you capped out on BP gains. Which means that 4th kill is entirely cosmetic. So I'm not going to hold the hatch accountable for what is a failure on the player's part.
Not true at all, there is a much bigger bonus for killing all survivors not just 3. Regardless if you hold the hatch accountable or not it still gives incentive for killers like me to slug. You say 3k is a win why go for 4k but the hatch isn't a win, so why have it at all? All it does is give killers a reason to slug the 3rd survivor.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856204#Comment_3856204
Bleed-out slugging is absolutely not an intended mechanic and is toxic.
It must be a mechanic because it exists in the game, there are perks designed around it and to counter it and it's not reportable. If it wasn't intended then the Devs would make it reportable or try to prevent it not actually encourage it but creating a Mori update and hatch. Both of which encourages slugging. The bleed out part is again intended so the game doesn't get prolonged indefinitely. Like it or not it is a part of the game and very likely will always be a part of the game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856248#Comment_3856248
Why did this come up every time being slugged until bleed out comes up?
Teabagging at the exit gate has several things base kit the killer can do. At worst, it's only 2 minutes, not 4. You can, base kit, force them out and possibly even mind game an extra kill or two. You can just ignore them and earn BP for two minutes around the map.
None of that is available to slugs. You can't earn BP, you can't ignore the killer if they're following your slug around throwing hatchet at you, or humping you. You can't turn the game around, and you have no measures available to speed up or shortcut the full 4 minutes of bleed out.
Not to mention that the teabagging scenario you describe requires all the survivors on the team to be coordinated in being toxic (a very small percentage of the player base). It only takes the one killer deciding to be a jerk to pull this off, which is far easier and also more common.
This kind of response is simply "bUt SoMeOnE ThInK oF tHe PoOr KiLlEr".
Regardless, the killer gets ****** off with it so they bring their own justice... If survivors don't like it, don't *** off the killers lol
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@hinney said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856204#Comment_3856204
Slugging in general isn't my complaint here. It's the humping while I bleed out. I'm not sure how you missed the "humped to death" part of that sentence. Toxic crap. Let me go next without a penalty.
To be fair killers have to endure t bagging at the gates forcing the killer to traverse the map to both exit gates to literally force survivors out or wait until egc ends. Why does the killer have to forcibly push people through the gate which when all are healed can take a fair amount of time to hit them all out. Some t bag after every pallet drop knowing the killer can't touch them. Survivors are ok doing it to killers repeatedly throughout the match so I don't see why killers can't do it back. In an ideal world survivors at the gate would just leave and go next and killers would just hook, get the kill and go next.
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@hinney said:
IDK if it's just because there's an event that's supposed to be fun happening right now or what, but holy crap the toxic killers are out in force.
I've been slugged and snowman-humped to death multiple times. I have to just lie on the ground for four minutes while some dork gets their jollies trying to farm salt.
Don't make Unbreakable and trash Boon perks the only option to combat a full team slugging. Let us choose to bleed out like we can choose to let go on the hook.
I think the question is how did the whole team get slugged to begin with? Usually it's because whole team tries to play toxic and team blind/body block the killer when they try hook. If they do that then it's fair game. But if people are spread out doing gens then the killer shouldn't really be able to slug the whole team.. unless the team refused to heal the slugs.
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I had a match where 3 people brought same map offering, I thought "ok this is going to be a swf sweatfest". Hooked 1 guy and 2 gens popped... At that point I thought "nah tunnel time". Got 4k with 1 gen left and they complained I was being sweaty lol. Sorry but 3 map offerings and 2 gens done super fast in an event... Action and reaction.
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I seen it maybe 2 or 3 times but mostly seem to be getting wreckers or cold wind farm (without any offerings). The map chance percentages have felt off to me for a long time.
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For me in solo my main issue is that my team doesn't do gens when I'm spending ages looping the killer or my team goes down very quick when I'm the only one on gens. So I use windows of opportunity and lithe (to aid in lasting longer during chases) and built to last and streetwise with a good toolbox (for getting gens done when team is in a chase). This has helped me survive many matches but it's best to go into solo with the expectations of you won't make it out alive lol because often there really isn't much anyone can do with a weak team that's going for adepts or doing challenges v strong killer that wants to win.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855580#Comment_3855580
It's impossible to hide until server time runs out during a slug for 4k unless the survivor refuses to escape once the bleedout timer is out and the killer refuses to close the hatch. And I've never seen two survivors hide for an hour. Admittedly, I don't recall if I've had two survivors both try to hide for hatch. However, I know I've never had two survivors hide for hatch until server end time; maybe I just found them and it doesn't stick out in my mind?
But if we removed hatch, then we would see survivors hiding for as long as possible. I mean this as a real question: Would you prefer that to hatch?
Not trying to be confrontational, just genuinely curious :)
To be fair hatch might as well not exist because it's a regular occurrence in my matches when there are 2 survivors left both hide for as long as possible, avoid doing gens and many times server has ended because they refuse to come out of hiding and I refuse to stop patroling gens. My job is patrol gens not play hide and seek searching the whole map for 2 people that are avoiding the objective (repairing gens). So to answer your question as a killer, I would prefer to remove the hatch so it doesn't give survivors any more reason to delay the match in the way they do currently. Also I wouldn't slug the 3rd survivor to get the 4k I feel I have earned by taking out 2 survivors before they completed 2 gens.
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@smurf said:
Hatch does not cause slugging for 4k. It doesn't even encourage it. Hatch was literally implemented to prevent the things slugging for 4k causes. Without hatch, every 4k would end in some long-drawn-out game of hide-and-seek, but where the outcome is guaranteed. The survivor would not escape, but many of them would end up hiding as long as possible. I don't want to be dealing with that as killer or survivor.
Hatch, when not circumvented, gives the last survivor a reason not to just hide for as long as possible, causing the endgame to finish in a timely way. It also makes it possible for the last survivor to have some hope of escaping, which is pretty reasonable. I rarely ever see a survivor just intentionally hiding for ages once only two survivors are left so they can get hatch. (But I have to admit that I have found survivors doing gens during hopeless game states and then gone to see if their teammate is doing gens too…) But I've seen plenty of games where the killer leaves the strongest looper for the end. It's pretty fair that the last survivor gets a chance at escape.
It's also true that hatch race is generally in the killer's favor. I tend to win most of my hatch races as killer since I have higher move speed, don't need to hide from the survivor, and can fulfill my goal by finding either the hatch or the survivor. Slugging for 4k also doesn't make the difference between a 'win' or 'loss'. The only metric that suggests a win or loss is that MMR considers a win at 3k or higher.
It's also not the slugged survivor's fault if their solo queue teammate leaves them to bleed out. Slugging for 4k makes that move possible, and actively encourages survivors to hide for minutes at a time. By slugging for 4k, the killer is causing the game of hide-and-seek that hatch was meant to prevent. And killers who do this think it's acceptable to force the third survivor to bleed out on the ground for up to several minutes while this goes on.
Sorry but I have to disagree strongly with this one, hatch does encourage slugging just as basekit Mori does. It gives killers a reason to slug. I know this because I wouldn't slug at the end game if there was nothing in it for me. Remove hatch and Mori and why would I slug? Also the hatch hasn't solved the hide and seek issue because still survivors hide until server end time if need be even if they know when server time runs out they get sacrificed automatically.