Prometheus1092
Prometheus1092
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861654#Comment_3861654
Since that helps little: If 2 are alive and hiding forever then yes it wont help, if 2 are alive and 1 has been slugged then no hiding helps.
Exactly, so answer is don't slug right?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861641#Comment_3861641
Confirmation: You are talking about 2 survivors hiding forever or the slugging for the 4k? We may have accidently blended your conversation with someone else.
Specifically talking about hiding forever, like I said if 3rd is alive, hatch doesn't spawn. Make what you will of that lol
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861625#Comment_3861625
Yet sometimes hiding does get us that door or hatch. So where's that leave us?
It only does when the killer kills the 3rd. But if the 3rd is alive then hiding doesn't do anything. So when both hide it accomplishes nothing. I been playing it that way for about a week, want to know how many have escaped via hatch by hiding? 0. I have had many complaints about it but 🤷♂️ they are the ones hiding.
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@Mr_K said:
Snowskulls
They work when close enough and if there any to hand but the point to Myers is stalk from a distance. Impossible to throw snowskulls at a snowman that far away lol when stalking from distance lots just hop in a snowman. Just adds an extra something for Myers to overcome I suppose. Shame Myers can't stalk when hiding in a snowman.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861570#Comment_3861570
So you're not actually 'waiting it out' at all.
Well I'm not looking for them, so in a way I am waiting it out. Waiting for them to come out of hiding while I patrol gens. At some point people will realise hiding doesn't accomplish anything. Doesn't get them the hatch, doesn't get them the escape.
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@alpha5 No I'm doing exactly as the in game advice says, patrol gens as the best way to find survivors. If they want to hide instead of engaging in the PvP that's on them.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861493#Comment_3861493
So when there's two survivors left, you purposefully stop playing?
Are you just fishing to get banned?
Not at all, I play the game as normal. I patrol gens as the game suggests the killer do. If survivors are hiding avoiding gens that's on them but I'm still playing the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861361#Comment_3861361
Do you expect empathy from survivors for the plight of the killer main when they advocate for anti-camp, tunnel or slug measures?
Not at all, it's survivors that have the biggest issue with being slugged for the 4k and any type of slugging. I'm just saying they should be grateful the killer is slugging them for 4min instead of doing what I do which is not slug and wait it out.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861361#Comment_3861361
With this sort of attitude is there really any wonder why people slug and don't care if it's wasting survivors time?This is just a chicken and egg scenario on what came first. You can say that you are slugging because otherwise they hide out, and the survivors can say they hide out because the killer is going to slug.
That doesn't make sense, because the key difference is the killer slugs for 4min to achieve 4k while these survivors that hide for a lot longer "to be annoying" knowing it's certain death if the killer waits it out. Regardless of who started it, not slugging and waiting it out seems to work fine. They can hide as long as they like and not be slugged. Still check mate because killer will get 4k in the end if they really want it.
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Well to be honest I think people are wishing I just slugged them for the 4k now lol when 2 go into hiding I just wait it out and they eventually come out of hiding or they both die when server ends. Problem solved, they don't get slugged and I get my 4k even if it it takes longer than it should. Compare that to 4min bleed out... I know what I would prefer as a survivor.
1 match there was a 2 person swf left, they both were saying they knew they couldn't win so wanted to hide until server ends "to be annoying". With this sort of attitude is there really any wonder why people slug and don't care if it's wasting survivors time? 🤷♂️ Not annoying to me because I had full intentions of waiting it out anyway and I got my 4k.
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Since the rework I hated the close range change to stalk, but since they buffed it slightly it does make a big difference. Double iri combo doesn't work but tombstone piece works way better, I can still have tinkerer and sneak up on people by a gen to Mori them. Loops are the main issue with Myers, but with pwyf and possibly brutal strength Myers can power through.
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With all the complaints towards slugging right now I don't think it's a good idea to further add a reason for killers to slug. If killer regularly tries to hook in matches and finds the hooks have been sabotaged I guarantee killers will abandon hooks altogether.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860878#Comment_3860878
But you don't understand. Killers trying to secure their win are evil and survivors who hold games hostage until the server shuts down are just trying to survive. Even though they die when the server shuts down. Only one side is allowed to be upset when their time is wasted because reasons.
If it wasn't for how miserably the win conditions are defined in this game, I feel like people would have a bit more empathy for the other side in this situation. As it stands, survivors will always bemoan that "3 kills is a win, anything more is just being greedy" while killers will complain that "Survivors refuse to accept defeat since they're not dead yet."
Both issues would be fixed if the hatch was changed to a scenario where neither side could stall and the fate of the 4th would be decided by earning it rather than just chance. But unfortunately everyone would rather blame each other than admit the scenario is fueled by both sides being stubborn.
Exactly what I been saying lol I get it that survivors want to escape if possible and as hatch is part of the game and they prepare for it. But killers want 4k if it's possible so hatch being the way it is, they prepare for it. Killers don't want to wait out the game looking for hidden survivors, like survivors don't to be slugged while killer looks for 4th.
The main issue recently seems to be directed at slugging for the 4k not hiding until server ends which are both related to the hatch. I can openly say as killer I will be as stubborn as the survivors and wait it out to get the 4k because at that point waiting for the hatch that will never appear is pointless. But doing that "checkmate" move really does get people worked up.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860677#Comment_3860677
So, first of all... If you're coming to me and saying
Why would a killer bring a perk the find the last survivors when all they need to do is out wait them
I mean, you certainly can... But why do we even have this post in the first place?
The entire conversation revolves around this being a waste of time, so if you're going to complain about the waste of time that apparently happens "regularly", that tells me you're stomping your games a lot. And there's room in the build for perks that can be used to help with that.
People can also improve game sense, and learn where survivors are throughout the match, which doesn't take a perk slot. It also requires that people improve as players, so that is usually of the table for a lot of people. Posting on the forums is far easier.
Or you can wait for the end of the game, but then why are we even talking about it if this is a reasonable solution in your mind?
Second of all:
So now it's perfectly fine to just "wait it out"?
I'm just saying that slugging wastes 4min while looking for the last survivor, that's the bit survivors don't like, wasting time when they could kill 3rd. Killers don't like the bit where they have to look for 2 hiding survivors wasting time. Depends how badly the killer wants the 4k if they want to wait it out or try looking for them and getting the match over with quicker. It's not great but at that point if killer wants the 4k and survivors want the hatch then it's a stand off that both sides have to endure. Pointless hiding if killer is that determined to wait it out tho. This point to this post I believe was due to survivors complaining of killers slugging the 3rd for the 4k because they know the 4th is hiding so need time to find them. Is it an exaggerated problem? I would say so especially when killers slug for 4min and not wait it out
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860640#Comment_3860640
not doing your job is stalling
The survivor's job is either to survive, which they're doing, or to escape, which they're also doing by making a hatch play.
sooo if they can't win
They CAN win. That's why they hide. It's their only way TO win.
You would have a valid argument if at the end of the hiding the survivor got an escape. But hide too long and server ends resulting in both remaining survivors to be sacrificed. The goal is escape... Not hide. Hide as a means to escape yes but if there is no means to escape (no hatch, can't do gens and both are hiding) then hiding is a death sentence.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860602#Comment_3860602
good game sense
I typically find the largest complainers of this "two survivors hiding problem" are missing this vital piece. Especially because the complaints claim this happens "regularly".
Sounds like, if people are "regularly" completely stomping teams, as some people claim, to where this is a problem then there's tons of room in their build as well.
Whispers (uncounterable, will locate the survivors for you), pick an aura read (distortion got nerfed just for this), and since they have to move to avoid crowds the killer could pick iron maiden instead. Pick one.
The only reason this might happen regularly is if the killer lacks have sense and also thinks they need 4 slowdowns every game. So I agree with you, let's see some of their gameplay.
Why would a killer bring a perk the find the last survivors when all they need to do is out wait them? If survivors waits too long they both get sacrificed due to server ending. I used to bring whispers but found that after a while I thought if I have time to wait like the survivors do then I can get 4k without taking up a perk slot... Just wait out the hiding.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7KFC4MRZQZ82/chillevent.png
Case in point for OP, just left this wonderful match. Pinhead tunneled out the first guy and then slugged everyone at 4 gens. Solo queue, no map offerings, no BMing, nothing of the sort. Just the type of players that are out and about during the event.
That is the only situation where an instant bleed out option would work. The team has lost, no way of winning or getting back up so all should die instantly.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860338#Comment_3860338
4 people on the ground at 5 gens in OP's post.
Which further proves my point, it's possible that the killer did indeed spend 10min trying to hook people but couldn't. There is no timer on show so impossible to tell how long the match is going on for but if they did try hooking for 10min then why hasn't a gen been done in that time? Answer could be because they were not doing gens, they were actively preventing the killer from hooking instead. My point still stands, could be justified to slug in that situation. Again, not saying it is, just saying it could be but showing the perks would help shine light on the context.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860331#Comment_3860331
I agree that slugging may be necessary, but like I said above, where that survivor is downed it is practically impossible for the killer not to have an opportunity to hook them.
Maybe, but that is irrelevant. If the killer spends 10min trying to hook people but gets sabotaged and blinded each time then the killer is quite likely going to think "ok I won't hook them" regardless of if it's possible to hook or not. Can't go into a match with the intention of preventing a killer from hooking then complain when they slug you.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860137#Comment_3860137
Toxic build is subjective. To one person, a toxic build has prove thyself only, to another it's 4 second-chance perks. Hidden perks means it is irrelevant to the discussion because, either way, no matter what perks a survivor runs, slugging everyone for 4 minutes is never justified, even if they are running meta perks.
I disagree, slugging people like that can be justified if killer is being prevented from hooking them. If hiding perks means it's irrelevant to the discussion then why not hide the item they are carrying too? That's also irrelevant to the discussion but it's not hidden. Toxic builds can be subjective but as people have previously said, the perks could indicate that the player had anti hooking perks, if the killer can't hook they can and should slug. The fact the killer is picking up a survivor knowing there are no survivors around could also indicate this is the reason for slugging. The perks might not be relevant but they could be and when hiding them it just doesn't look good.
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Is there a reason why perks are blanked out?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859686#Comment_3859686
It does change a lot
Ok, are you able to explain how or what it changes?
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@Rudjohns said:
Unbreakable basekit when 2 survivors are left should solve the biggest problem
Unbreakable basekit at 2 v 1 situations wouldnt change anything. 1 survivor hiding waiting for the other to die but they won't die because they have unbreakable basekit so keep getting back up. No different to what I do really, keep the 3rd alive until I find the hidden one. Usually results in 3rd survivor ratting out the 4th to get the match over with.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859350#Comment_3859350
"Survivors abused it" lmao no.
They canceled basekit Unbreakable because it was meant to ship alongside the version of the final mori that activates when all 4 survivors were slugged/hooked/dead, and they canceled that because even with basekit UB the increase in slugging was horrid
It was actually abused, survivors were bringing flashlight and using any means they could to prevent killer hooking. Which meant they had to slug then unbreakable would kick in so couldn't slug or hook. That's why slugging was still horrid, survivors were trying to be slugged knowing they can just get back up.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858797#Comment_3858797
I wouldn't be too sure about that. There was a hell of a lot of questions about slugging in the latest satisfaction survey. I wouldn't be surprised if all this slugging for the 4k nonsense has made way for some upcoming changes to slugging.
Maybe, but if anything has been learnt by the past it's that 1. Changes to slugging has been tried previously with basekit unbreakable and survivors abused it. And 2. Any changes in this area of the game will just teach killers to adapt. Such as how I already adapted by not slugging in 2 v 1 situations but keeping 3rd survivor alive until I find the 4th. Slugging at 5gens is the more likely thing that would be effected but 2 v 1 situations won't change. Look at at the nerfs to camping over the years, it's taught killers to proxi camp better, it's never gone away. Slugging will be no different.
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@baharuto48 said:
- Slugging is connected to a perk the killer has to take otherwise survivors get base kit unbreakable when the killer is more than 10 to 20 meters away
- Slugging is a power the killer has unlocked once the gen count reaches three
- Someone else got an idea?
I'm good to have slugging as a perk if survivors have hatch as a perk lol.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859005#Comment_3859005
So how would this mindset help when you're being wiggled off/carried around just before you bleed out?
Depends on the situation. If I'm the 3rd survivor being slugged to find the 4th for example then I would wiggle free and run to the other survivor so killer can wrap up if they keep me alive and I can try another match. If I'm left to bleed then I crawl to the survivor and wiggle by the locker they are hiding in (they usually hide in a locker somewhere).
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For me... killer side its gen speeds. I feel they fly too fast especially on some maps where they are so big it's very difficult to maintain map pressure. It's a race to get as many out before gens get complete which often results in the need to tunnel as I don't have time to spread hooks between survivors. I tried regress perks to slow things down but the gens still fly too fast. I think either base gen speed should be slower or regress perks should be buffed.
For survivor it's matchmaking in soloq/no coms. Swf have the advantage of coms to coordinate but soloq doesn't have that so when I'm teamed up with low skill survivors and no way of telling them "don't go for save, killer is camping so just do gens" they go for the save at the wrong times and end up getting me or themselves killed. I'd love to get a heads up about a camping killer from my team mate that is on hook too. I don't think there is a solution to that other than provide coms base kit for all survivors. Maybe if the game worked on getting soloq to a similar place swf is then it would be easier to sort out game balance. As it stands its impossible to get true balance because killers need to keep you with the swf teams which means soloq players generally get stomped.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858851#Comment_3858851
Glad to know we ain't the only ones who noticed
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858844#Comment_3858844
We know people have already pointed out the points that we're going to point out, but that's the point so we going to point it out again~
First the 1 down and 1 hiding situation. What specifically stops the killer from hooking that 3rd survivor? Fear of hatch? Ok why, since we already pointed out what the killer has done the trial, seems dumb to put it politely. If that third survivor is down already nothing really stops the killer from killing that one and rarely is there a good reason to stall to guarantee the 4k.
Second about healing the slugged mate. As we said before, the killer will usually patrol in a way that lets them keep an eye on the slug. If the hidden survivor tries to help the slug without a specialized build then they go down and the killer slugs them while they chase the picked up one and eventually gets them. That's practically a death sentence for both survivors so understandable they are unlikely to do that. We get it's not all the time but it's common enough that the 3 of us go and look with extreme caution. In addition if the slug actually does go afk after recovering (or sometimes after they been slugged) there's actually zero reason to try and pick them up.
Third:
But the reason why they are left for the full duration of the slug timer is due to killer looking for the last survivor so won't hook them AND the other survivor not healing the team mate due to hiding and also not coming out of hiding so killer can quickly down and hook the last one then go back and hook the slug.
...this sounds a lot like "survivors are to blame for not coming out to die". Remember that the common situation of "slugging for the 4k" is 1 survivor is slugged and 1 is hiding... meaning that 1 survivor is hook-able by the killer (less the killer lost the slug for whatever stupid reason). How is that the fault of the survivor?
Fourth we disagree that these (slugging for the 4k and 2 hiding all game) are related. Both are stupidly annoying true but aside from that both are their own separate forms of beepery.
To the first point, I agree nothing stopping the killer from hooking. You say rarely is there a good reason to stall for the 4k but I have already pointed out the reasons some killers might consider good reasons (mori, more BP, possibly adept achievement, because they don't feel a 3k is a win when survivor escapes hatch and BM post match). Not everyone will agree they are good reasons, but agreement isn't necessary. It's about if the killer feels the reasons good enough.
Second point, killers patroling keeping an eye on the slug. Its risky to heal yes and if the killer is lurking nearby then leaving a slug on the ground is no different to being left on hook when killer camps. It allows the team to do gens. Might not be fun for the slug but it's not fun being on a hook either.
Third point, yes in a way survivors are in part to blame for not coming out to do die, fact is the slug remains on the ground until last survivor has been found. If the last survivor wanted to they could concede, come out, both die and go next. But they don't because they want the hatch. Which is fine, both players killed and survivor are preparing for hatch situation but the reason the slug remains on the ground for the duration is because last survivor can't be found. It's interesting the double standards here tho. If the survivor was hooked the killer would still be able to go look for the last survivor and the 3rd would still be hanging from a hook doing nothing. But that's ok because it means they can suicide on hook. It's ok to suicide when they are on hook but not ok to suicide by coming out of hiding? That's besides the point tho, point is why the slug remains on the ground....reason being killed wants 4k and last survivor wants hatch. Both are to blame.
4th point, already explained the connection between slugging for 4k and hiding for the hatch. Killers slug for 4k because they know the last will hide so they want more time to find the hidden survivor. Why that survivor hides is due to the hatch. Clear connection right there. 2 separate issues yes but they are linked.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858859#Comment_3858859
Meanwhile your attitude on killer is: Must kill them all at any cost. Laser-focused on the objective while essentially not caring at all about the people you just suggested this to.
Ye lol a lot of killers are like me, I know, I been survivor main and still play survivor time to time. Hence why I play survivor in the way I do. I make my own fun, I don't rely on killers to play the way I want them to because I know that won't happen. They play their way I play my way, all have fun. I find going into survivor mode with the same head as I do killer mode is very stressful and not fun at all. So I change my mindset to make it fun.
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Personally I think any slugging changes should be carefully thought about. Reason being, many people slug for the 4k. If slugging for 4k was nerfed in any way to prevent the 4k the 60% kill rate that bhvr was aiming for and has achieved would suddenly drop. So killers would need a buff to compensate or survivors would be nerfed so killers can maintain the 60% kill rate. Like when they introduced base kit unbreakable, it tipped the balance way too much, it was abused and subsequently removed.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858689#Comment_3858689
no idea why people can't take the loss and just move on
Because it's not a loss until they're dead, perhaps?
Better question is: Why can't you just take the win and move on?
Similar response, because killers objective is kill... If there is a survivor left then killer should kill. Personally I think if the survivor can't win then it's a loss... just a matter of when, after 4min of being slugged? After 20min of hide and seek? After 1 hour server time is over? All leads to same result.
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To be honest when I was survivor main I found loops and sitting on gens boring. Circling around the killer shack with ease just didn't feel rewarding to me. I do find fun it going into survivor match with the mindset of "I probably won't survive but let's see what BP and goals I can get done, maybe get a few gens done and help others escape." My advice is approach survivor mode from a different angle, especially in soloq because you can bet other people in solo are doing adepts and totem challenges and other things. I find fun in that anyway
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858818#Comment_3858818
So we may have missed something at this point and want to be clear on everything. This thread was originally about slugging for the 4k and how some of it is part of the survivors fault for not coming to the slugs rescue correct? Its now become about 2 survivors hiding and waiting for 1 to die so the other gets hatch?
I think it's because it's all related, slugging for 4k is usually due to 2 v 1 situations so 3rd survivor is slugged left to bleed out while other survivor is hiding waiting for the hatch instead of healing the slug. A lot of complaints seem to be that survivors can't do anything when slugged so might as well go afk for 4min. But the reason why they are left for the full duration of the slug timer is due to killer looking for the last survivor so won't hook them AND the other survivor not healing the team mate due to hiding and also not coming out of hiding so killer can quickly down and hook the last one then go back and hook the slug. Which then leads to why this situation happens...being the hatch and if it's reasonable to hide out for the hatch or save the team mate from being slugged.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858784#Comment_3858784
Subjective. How does the majority of the team being killed count as subjective for a win or loss. Three of them died. That's like saying you did well in an exam even though you got most of the questions wrong.
I'm not dismissing anything the killer might want or feel. I said they're entitled to slug for the 4k if they want it that bad, it just sucks that they do it because other players have to have their time wasted staying in a match that's already over. Its understandable if its for an adept achievement, you need the 4k and adept is hard as it is. Anyone can understand why a killer would go to such lengths to secure a 4k in that scenario.
The hatch is in the game for a reason. To give the last survivor a chance at escaping. I never said the last survivor is entitled to escape. You said the last survivor could just give up because they lost the match. I said they shouldn't have to hand themselves over as a free kill and deny themselves a chance of escaping just to satisfy a player's ego of wanting a 4k just so they won't have their time wasted having the killer bleed some poor player out while they hunt all over the map for the last one.
Just call it for what it is. Players want their 4k win because it simply looks better to them than a 3k win. But a win is a win. As I said before its no knock against the killer if the final survivors is lucky enough to find hatch or gate an exit open because of bad exit gate RNG.
Anyway this is my last response in this discussion because its just getting repetitive now. There's no reasons that anyone can offer that would make it sound justified beyond going for adept or trying for Myers' evil incarnate.
Because many people see it as 1v1v1v1v1 even bhvr kill rate is based on this. On that basis a killer can get 1k and say they won against that survivor so 1k is considered a win...a small win but still a win. So if a killer gets 1k and wins v that survivor then they should take the win and allow survivors a cheap escape for doing nothing? No they go for 2nd kill... then 3rd then 4th. 4th being the tricky one because of hatch so killers play around it. The fact that you close yourself from the discussion shows your unwilling to listen or learn about others views and opinions even if you disagree with them. But each to their own, can't force you to discuss the matter further any more than you can force a killer into not preventing the hatch going for the 4k lol.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858769#Comment_3858769
Because they still won the match that's why. Its just pure ego to go to those lengths just because you want a 4k. There's nothing reasonable about that. Its got nothing to do with MMR. A 3k is a win. No survivor team who had three of them die can say they won lol. That's absurd.
What achievements, other than adept and Myers' evil incarnate, are they missing out on if one person escapes a trial. Missing out on a mori or BP (as if they BP for one extra kill is so substantial). Yeah those are great reasons to keep someone staring at the floor for several minutes instead of just letting them move onto the next match after they've already lost.
Don't move goal posts. We're not talking about camping and tunneling or using Noed. We're talking about slugging for the 4k. Its flat out false to say someone having a shot at escaping should just hand themselves over as a free kill so the killer's ego will be satisfied and end the match they already won.
They won the match according you, but maybe not according to the killer, that's my point. No where does it say in the game win or lose, it's all subjective. If I get 2k Vs a team of hackers I consider that a win. If I stomp the team before they get even close to doing all gens and 1 still makes it out then I don't consider it a win. You basically dismiss all the things that a killer might want or feel a win grants them. But your not willing to dismiss anything the hatch gives a survivor. I can say "oh extra BP and don't lose MMR... Good reason to try hide and escape a match they already lost." It's survivor entitlement, expecting another shot at escape when they failed." Makes way more sense for a killer that's won to get 4k than a survivor that's lost to still escape, if killer lost the match and was expecting a kill you might have a point but to reward the loser with another escape option and deny the winner a 4k is very strange.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858724#Comment_3858724
That's not the flip side of it. A survivor still has a shot at escape. As the game says in the intro death is not an escape. So why should you just die when you have a chance to escape?
Whereas in the killer's situation they killed the majority of the team. They won. It's not a knock against your skill as a killer if one survivor is lucky enough to get the hatch or open an exit.
The killer in that situation has the power to take their win and end the match. Instead many will subject someone to bleeding out on the floor while they search high and low trying to find the final survivor. All because they just want that perfect shiny 4k.
There's no scenario, other than doing adept, where the killer looks good for putting a player through a bleed out on the floor just so they can have a perfect 4k. They're entitled to of course, but it sucks to stretch a match out and waste people's time for ego reasons like that.
True death is no escape, but if survivor can't do gens they have failed. If survivor can't get hatch, they failed. If they can't open gates before the time expires they failed. Personally that's too many chances, so when survivors fail at doing gens it's gameover. That's why when I'm able to, if there is 2 v 1 and I can't find the 4th after slugging the 3rd I keep both alive so there is no chance of escape. Can't get hatch because there's still 2 people left, can't do gens clearly otherwise why hide it out for so long? No escape, hiding at that point is futile and accomplishes nothing because if they keep hiding they both die. If killers want 4k for ego reasons then survivors want to hide in a futile match for toxic reasons. But you say why should you just die when you have a chance to escape. Why should killer just allow the hatch potentially allowing a survivor to escape? You say the killer won but not everyone considers 3k a win. This 3k being a win is mostly from MMR going up when there's 3k. MMR that no one can see or cares about. So it's perfectly reasonable for some killers to not consider 3k a win as it doesn't count towards achievements, gives a lot less BP, miss out on mori.
There's very little a killer can do to look good in survivors eyes to be honest, can't slug, can't tunnel, can't camp, can't use noed even have salt comments about using light born as a crutch lol I know I'm not the only one that gets this. So in light of that, I really don't think many killers care if they look good or not for slugging for 4k. Killers can end it quicker yes. But like or not, so can survivors by a acknowledging they have lost and can't win.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858689#Comment_3858689
Exactly. It's a loss. But one person has a shot at escape. But it's still a win for the killer. But many killer players will still bleed someone out trying to find the last survivor because they just want that 4k.
Even though they already won.
On the flip side a survivor will hide even tho they lost. If a survivor is willing to hide in an already lost match then people can expect killer to slug an already won watch. Survivor wants a hatch in a match they lost killer wants Mori in a match they won. Still makes both sides to blame for the prolonged match. To be fair tho, I know if I'm survivor and I'm slugged and my team mate heals me I'm making sure we both die quickly so I'm not stuck in a match I lost. Kinda why it's handy to keep the 3rd alive... Give them an option of end it fast by running away from me towards the other player or end it slow via server end timer
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
I generally play by the standard criteria you listed but if I play against a team I find particularly skilled, I'll feel like a 2k or even a 1k was a win for how hard the fight was and how close I was to more.
Pretty much like me, but I tend to think 3/4k is a win, if it's vs a very good swf then I take a 2k as a win. As survivor I go for BP and challenges. If I get a nice chunk of points or get my challenge done then it's a win for me regardless if I escape or not.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858631#Comment_3858631
It's got nothing to do with survivors not healing their team mates. Any killer player that's willing to bleed someone to death trying to find the last survivor is going to do it regardless of whether they're healthy or not. That killer player is determined to get their 4k.
Why shouldn't the last person hide for hatch? If the match is not winnable with only two survivors left then why bother bashing your head against a brick wall trying to win something you cannot win.
It always comes down to this...if the match isn't winnable then why not go for the hatch? Because the match not being winnable is a loss lol. Hiding for the hatch is basically bashing your head against a brick wall trying to get a win from a lost match, especially if the killer stops the slug from bleeding out (which I have done 3 times tonight because last survivor refused to come out of hiding) no idea why people can't take the loss and just move on
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858631#Comment_3858631
Well, in playing devils advocate, when the slug for the 4k happens usually the killer aint all that far from said slug~
The point of slugging for the 4k is that the killer has time to search the map for last survivor. No point slugging for 4k if they remain by the slugged player and don't even try looking for the last one, might as well just hook and kill them if killers are waiting it out like that because when they bleed out hatch is in play which is what the killer is trying to avoid.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858631#Comment_3858631
What do you mean? If they heal/pick up each other the game drags even longer and then there is a 2nd slug timer to tick down. Leaving the other guy slugged is the only play in a 2v1.
The issue is that slugs can't do anything, that's the complaint I see very very often. Healing eachother gives BP and allows the other player to do something again and unless survivors have got themselves a 3 gen situation then then 2 survivors can complete a last gen if they are spread out. It prolongs that match because the match is still in play, not over yet.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Definitely not an exaggerated problem. I see it so often. Games dragged out longer than they need to be because the killer just has to have the 4k. Some poor soul is left on the floor getting their time wasted for several minutes because of it.
For 4min max. Games dragged out longer because killer just has to have the 4k? True but you neglect to mention it's also due to survivors unwilling to heal team mates and just hiding out because they just have to get the hatch.
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@Nazzzak said:
It's about having respect for people's time. These are people, just like yourself, wanting to enjoy a game, just like yourself, and instead of just hooking them in a game they've already lost you want them to lay on the ground to feed your own ego. Also, you can rant about survivors hiding all you like, but the game is literally advertised on the site to potential buyers as a "deadly game of hide and seek." Most survivors in my experience do not hide anyway outside of low MMR.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XRDVCKS0SD6Q/screenshot-20241219-050240-chrome.jpg
Pretty poor advertising and very misleading lol. Hide and seek would imply people would win if they hide long enough. Shame all survivors don't use this as a basis to justify hiding, maybe gens wouldn't get done so quick then. If people want others to respect thier time it needs to work both ways. Don't want killers to waste time in a match they won by slugging? Then survivors shouldn't waste time in a match they have lost by hiding waiting for server to end.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Nothing is stopping that last survivor from just conceding up rather than stalemating the game and wasting everyone's time further. At best, you have a slim chance at hatch, while the other survivors sit there and rot. You're just as responsible. Let's all just go next.
That is a bad take IMO. Why should a Survivor concede when their Job is to survive? And why do people suddenly support Survivors to go next in this case?
Would you say that a Killer who lost 4 Gens without getting a single Hook should just give up at this point? Or when all Gens are done? We hear so often from Killers that the Endgame is part of the game and also that Survivors have too many chances in Endgame, yet a Survivor should concede?
The fact is that a Killer slugging for the 4K is simply prolonging a game they won anyway. Especially if it was a stomp, nobody can argue it was not a win when there is a 3K with 2, 3, 4 or even 5 Gens remaining, even if the last Survivor might get the pity escape (which only meant that they were lucky, since the Killer has even all advantages to find the Hatch first due to higher mobility and no need to hide).
Can't really compare survivor giving up to a killer giving up. By the very nature of the game survivors are to be eliminated, the killer is the only one that has to see it through to the end. Killers often get stronger as the match goes on so it makes sense to play at end game and not give up. Survivors get weaker as the match goes on as members are eliminated, pallets are smashed ect. At some point survivors have to realise they have been weakened to the point of no return and they can't win. That's the point where they should concede.
As for a match being won at 3k, again this is subjective. At best the win for a killer is a scale from 1 to 4 so it's possible to consider 1k a win. A low win but still a win. But each kill increases the level of win. It's up to the individual to determine what a win is for them.
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@wakesafe said:
That is the power role bleeding you out to try and win harder when the 3K is a win. The Killer (as the power role) is refusing to hook and is attempting to bypass the hatch mechanic. The Survivor is not to blame. This is like blaming the Killer when Survivors 2v1 stealth a lost game.
Also, if every 3K resulted in a 4K kill rates would go up and Killers would likely receive nerfs.
Survivor is equally to blame, regardless of the reason why a killer slugs if survivors refuse to heal team mates they are allowing it to happen. It's like when a slugged survivor crawls away, they are partly to blame for remaining in a slugged state as killer can't hook what they can't find.
So many say 3k is a win but that only applies to MMR which many people don't care about and some even believe it's fabricated because of how broken the MMR system is. Fact is a "win" is subjective and many feel 3k isn't a win as they miss out on mori and bonus BP for killing all survivors and potentially an achievement. Also an escaped survivor via hatch can still BM and gloat post match which can feel less of a win.
As for the kill rates, bhvr was aiming for 60% kill rate. Last I saw they achieved that and thats with slugging for the 4k.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858170#Comment_3858170
It's pretty much the exact same thing. The only reason why it's only for four minutes is because BHVR put a hard cap on the time before someone bleeds out. If it were an hour to bleed out the same Killers who now slug for the 4K would telling Survivors to go watch a TV or grab a sandwich.
The bottom line is you're wasting another player's time instead of progressing the game as intended; any Killer who slugs the second last survivor for the 4K is not behaving any better than the Survivors who hide out and wait for Hatch.
Your entitled to your opinion but I disagree, a killer that deliberately keeps the 3rd survivor alive to bring it to server end yes that's the same as survivors hiding. But leaving a slug on the ground is no different to hooking them then looking for the 4th, just gives killer that extra bit more time to find them. It's irrelevant saying if slug timer was 1 hour because it's not. And like you said there is a reason why its not, to stop killers from taking the p*** with it. But survivors do have the equivalent which is hiding for 1 hour and basically saying to the killer, quit or go watch TV for an hour so they can take the p*** with it. Maybe if hidden people had timer of 4min like slugs get then it wouldn't be an issue. Either way, my work around is keep them both alive. No slugging, no hooking. I do what survivors do, make it last the full hour if need be. In the end I still get the 4k and they still don't escape. It wouldn't surprise me if other killers start doing that too the more survivors try dragging it out for an hour.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858090#Comment_3858090
Slugging to create pressure is different. Slugging the second last survivor to try to circumvent game mechanics that were put into place to stop time being wasted is just the flip side of the coin of trying to get the Killer to DC by hiding.
Slugging for 4min max is very different to hiding for 20+ min. It's no different to hooking someone and have hook timer as the killers timeframe to find the 4th. Slugging as a tactic is used to circumvent hook related perks, using it to get round the hatch is no different as the 4th can heal their team mate just as they can unhook. It's not about trying to get people to DC like hiding is. Deliberately slugging the whole team and refusing to hook them might be considered similar to trying to make people DC but even then it's only 4min. It doesn't force them to wait out until 1 hour server ends which is what people hiding try to do.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858143#Comment_3858143
When are those from? I'm not even sure if Peanits understands the problem (abusing certain mechanics to avoid crows).
My point is that clearly nobody is getting banned for this.
I'm saying that I reported this specific group twice and they clearly do this a lot without ever being banned for it.
One was back in 2017 not sure on the other one. If people don't get banned then I guess it's fair game, they clearly still do it regardless of it being reportable. But I will say based on the only clarification we have on the matter (being from a dev member) then it's a risk... All it takes is 1 ban and if someone does that get that 1 ban then it's on them.
Sorry my bad not 2017...2020.