Unfun facts:
Over the past 3 months: All the killers I've played against have had the exact same strategy Sulg the 3rd survivor to looking for 4th survivor, Some killers were not satisfied with 3 and a half minutes, they went as far as carrying the survivor who was 5 seconds away from death and Hooking the survivor to milk more time.
Literally not a single match did the killer not use this strategy.
Before the addition of the Survivor Bot this extremely greedy strategy did not exist because the Survivor could simply DC to give the last Survivor the hatch.
As usual we see the same greedy argument that the survivor shouldn't get the hatch, without the hatch the tunnel and proxy camping become stronger than before and also how do you expect the last survivor to fix generators and escape the chase? The survivor was not designed to be self-sufficient.
I don't know what's the fun in wasting 4 minutes of my time on something that's not fun and not interactive, just greed for 4k as if there's a reward that 3k doesn't provide, just kill the third survivor and let this player continue the game instead of using the player as a timer.
If you can't kill the fourth survivor, it's not the end of the world, your device screen won't explode, the game won't consider you a loser. On the contrary, killing 3 survivors is considered a win, and the survivor escaping through the hatch is not considered a win for the survivor or a loss, it will be considered a draw for the survivor.
Comments
this has been the tactic for years - the finisher mori just made people realise it more and made killers more unashamed to do it.
Yeah, they should do something about slugging for the 4K. In the end it is someone prolonging the game and wasting tome of someone else (the Survivor on the ground) for a game they already won. And especially if not all Gens are done, and even more so if it was already a stomp, there is 0 reason to not feel like it was a win, even if someone gets a pity escape via Hatch.
In general, I think a Hatch escape should work like a sacrifice for the Killer. The Survivor should still count as escaped and should still get the points and any rewards for that, but the Killer should have a 4K when it comes to anything where it is important (Challenges, Adepts, and so on) and obviously get the BPs as if they would have hooked the last Survivor as well.
And then something needs to be done to directly address slugging, especially for the 4K. Because there is nothing which would lead to slugging for the 4K at this point, except for doing it out of spite. Because usually when the topic arises, Killers say "Oh, but Adepts" or "Oh, but challenges", which would be solved with the first point I made. And we all know that it is mostly done for the Ego, because finishing a game with a 3K + Hatch Escape with 4 Gens remaining is apparently not enough of a Win…
I never fancy the thought of bots honestly as it indirectly was the first instant of why slugging has been risen imo.
Sure a 3 v 1 may be hard but its not IMPOSSIBLE to win, I and a 2 friends has done this many times when the random want to be rage quitting lil katie . As killer I hate that too I must waste more time other wise I could have end match fast but is force to go against ai
If killer wants to be lame and slug for 4k if it was just 2 of us then I would happily or friend would just eat the 15 seconds so the other gets a chance for hatch ir gate and bots prevents that.
Bots and finisher moris being gone will probably give these killers 0 reason to slug but more than apparently being an ass if they still want to do it.
Just play the role of a survivor and you will understand the feeling.
Said it many times, way before mori update... Hatch gives reason to slug. Remove the hatch, remove the reason to slug the 3rd. It's also partly due to survivors hiding and avoiding gens for so long when it's 2 v 1 with multiple gens left knowing they lost the match (which is reportable). The killer needs more time to find the hiding survivor. So what is a killer to do? Kill the 3rd fast and allow the last rule breaking survivor to get a cheap hatch escape? Hell no lol if a survivor is going to play that way and hide then I will keep the 3rd survivor alive for as long as necessary to find the 4th.
As for how do you expect 1 survivor to do gens? You don't. If gens are not done and your whole team is wiped out then you have lost the match regardless if you get hatch or not as hatch isn't considered a win. accept it for the loss that it is, get it over with quickly and move onto the next match.
Always boils down to the argument of "greedy killers wanting 4k when they win v entitled survivors that want a hatch win when they lost"
I find it strange that you write some of the same things that I wrote in my post, in general before adding the bot I could punish the killer through DC to prevent the killer from wasting my time on nothing and at the same time give the hatch to the last survivor and thus the killer strategy failed completely.
You literally answered yourself 🤣.
This is proof why developers should stop this greed and stop wasting other people's time because only the killer is greedy.
I understand what you're saying, however, can't we agree that it's not a good idea to force a player to waste their time on nothing? It applies to all players, whether new, good or experienced, because it's kind of like (3 gens).
Yes! I no longer have to use perks to "fix" instead of using perks I enjoy using it.
But overall this needs to be fixed somehow because many people including me want to enjoy playing.
The reward system should be changed from (how many survivors you killed) to (your performance in the match) and the same for survivors.
Because the survivor can hide throughout the match and escape through the gate, the game will put this survivor with the most skilled killer, and the same thing with the killer, the game does not care about what you do in the match, only how many you killed, and it does not matter the way you killed the survivor even.
But the strange thing is if 3k is considered a win, why the greed for 4k?
Removing the hatch will also remove the reason for Survivors to keep playing after a bad start (and many are already having difficulty with that as it is). If 2v1 means the Survivors have already lost the match, then why does the match continue at that point? What would they do if there's no hatch and no chance to complete the last three gens? Perhaps continue to hide for eternity, or until the match naturally times out? What an easy 4k that would be for the Killer, especially if they tunnel out the first Survivor.
Removing the hatch will cause more problems than it solves, and I can guarantee that no one will even want to queue for Survivor matches if this came to be.
I highly doubt that.
Some? Maybe
Most? Unlikely
All? Impossible
I don't care what you claim is "reportable", i am going to keep hiding as long as possible and try to keep the killer from getting a kill every time they try to slug for the 4k. I make it my goal to die to the endgame timer rather than the petty killer employing these tactics. If I was to get banned for that then that's when I would probably quit the game for good. Mandy, is it reportable or bannable for me to play my role as survivor and try to survive as long as possible and keep the killer from getting a kill? Essentially, I guess what I am asking is is it reportable to not give the killer a free kill? Whatever anybody answers to this, whether they work for Bhvr. or not I'm going to keep playing the same way unless I get banned or killers stop cheesily slugging for the 4k.
I didn't mean the nice killers who give you the hatch, those are out of the record, I mean the ones who play to win, and as I said, there was not a single match the killer did not use this strategy.
The match continues at 2 v 1 because both survivors hide indefinitely either to waste killers time or to hope the other survivor dies so the last one can get hatch. Remove the hatch and the only reason to hide will be out of toxicity. Fact is hatch gives a reason to hide. Just like hatch gives a reason to slug. As long as hatch exists killers will slug the 3rd and even keep the 3rd alive to prevent hatch spawningnso they can find last survivor. As a killer I'm fine doing that or waiting untill server time runs out if need be. Survivors want the hatch, they can have slugging that goes with it
It's not what I claim it's what the Devs have claimed many times lol. You can drag the match out as long as you want but every time a survivor does that I make it go to server end time which means both survivors get automatically sacrificed. You put yourself in a lose lose situation because killer gets the 4k regardless.
Also your goal as survivor is to escape. Do gens then escape. If hatch is available then goal is escape hatch. If no hatch has spawned the goal remains to do gens. Avoiding gens for a prolonged time is avoiding the objective and not progressing the game. This has been stated many times.
Yes people always bring up a statement one community manager for Bhvr. made years ago when the game was totally in a different state than it is now and without context. Can you give me one example of anyone banned or even warned for "not doing gens" and trying to survive as long as possible? Probably not because even Bhvr. knows it would be absurd to ban a player for doing their objective. And even if Bhvr. did decide to take the killer favoritism to new heights and actually ban a survivor player for trying to survive, I would never follow such a rule and would force Bhvr. to ban me as well. I will not be forced to give killers a free kill. I always make it a point to waste as much time of any killer who slugs for the 4k as possible since they are wasting my time with their petty "3k is not good enough" attitude.
Bhvr doesn't comment on bans so if someone was banned for that reason people probably wouldn't know about the actual reason. Like I said, you do you but if you think your having the last laugh by wasting the killers time, I assure you your not lol. Your wasting your own time by achieving the same goal which is a loss for yourself. I am happy and have done so many times to wait until server ends. I get my 4k in the end. What do you get out of it? A very slow death lol. Doesn't make sense to me but you do you
I find it fun to deny the killer from killing me as long as possible. If I can die from the endgame timer rather than the killer that is a win for me.
Why dont you run perks like whispers or spies then? You always find and say the same excuse for slugging camping and tunneling in any and every post.
I take it too your the same one who complains about survivors dcing or giving up or swf bullies? Have you no shame that even though a handful of people who see through your poor attempts at justifying said play styles a signal?
Ok remove the hatch and finisher mori one of the exit gates will be half open then or better yet remove the hatch and enjoy being stuck in game till server close since no hatch = no egc. You should be careful what you ask for.
As long as hatch remains a purely rng mechanic that grants survivors a free escape, killers will always find it better to slug for the 4K.
I could run whispers but I don't see why I should take up a whole perk slot to achieve something I can get without it. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. I don't tunnel or slug or camp for no reason. I definitely don't hump survivors on the ground. My actions are reactions to the usual match I experience. I honestly have no shame in playing the game according to the rules, I'm not cheating or hacking or doing anything reportable.
I'm not sure how people are not seeing this.... No hatch means no egc... Thats exactly what happens in 2 v 1 situations except a killer has to slug to prevent hatch from spawning. With no hatch killer has no need to slug as there would be no hatch to stop spawning. I don't complain about DC survivors, sometimes bots play better than the people lol the only thing I dislike is the speed that gens can be completed but even that I just accept it and deal with it by tunneling and using noed. Sooo no real issues my end. I'm fine tunneling and slugging and doing what I need to do, it's survivors that don't like it but refuse to see why killers do what they do.
Slugging isn’t exclusive to hatch, and the idea that removing hatch would stop slugging seems unrealistic based on past events. Despite the introduction of antislugging, anti-tunneling and anti-camping mechanics, these strategies are still widely used because they are the easiest and often most efficient ways to secure kills. Killers still slug and tunnel at 5 gens, and camping persists in various forms, like proxy camping or teleporting, because these tactics are low-risk and highly effective.
Removing hatch won’t stop slugging, it just makes achieving a 4K easier. Being able to deny several survivor perks from ever activating is a huge advantage that can be accomplished without hooking at all. The core issue isn’t hatch—it’s the lack of incentives for killers to prioritize hooks over outright kills. Strategies like slugging, tunneling, and camping are symptoms of the win condition that BHVR has established where kills are prioritized above all else. Since slugging already happens because it’s easy, removing hatch would only make an easy strategy even easier, which wouldn’t solve problems both “sides” struggle with.
I'm not saying hatch is the sole reason for slugging. Much like when the Mori update was released, loads were saying get rid of it because now killers are slugging more than ever. Hatch is the same, it gives reason to slug. I'm just saying reduce the reasons why a killer would slug and you would find slugging as a whole would reduce...not stop but urviviors would see less of it. Like me, I wouldn't slug anywhere near as much as I do if mori and hatch didn't give me a reason to. Some will slug regardless but people like me wouldn't slug as much.
So you want to bring back some slowdown perks?
But in general what I mean by (your performance in the match) is not only the hooks, how many survivors you hit, how many generators are left, how many pallets you broke, how many chases you finished quickly, and finally how many survivors are hooked.
My experience is that it's most killers doing this. Not all, but most. It makes the game as survivor pretty unbearable a lot of the time.
Weird, I have played survivors a lot for challenges lately and it happened like 3/4 times to me. Maybe region/MMR thing.
I understand what you’re saying, but I think it’s simply an agree to disagree. I believe that slugging would not disappear even if the reasons for slugging did. Things like sabo, flashlight saves, or hatch. Because we’ve already seen it happen. This already happened in the first 2v8. There were no flashlight saves, no sabo, no threat to losing a hook, people still slugged. Many slugged till bleed out. It happened to me as well and it happened to enough other people for changes to have been implemented by BHVR to prevent the same thing happening a second time.
Whatever is easiest is what will be done regardless if all legitimate reasons to do so were eradicated.
As long as the game prioritizes kills above all else, tunneling/slugging will not stop because players will always take the path of least resistance.
The game needs to do a better job of respecting player time in general. This is one of those areas. There are so many instances where a trial is over at the 5 minute mark, but you end up having a 12 minute trial because it drags on and on. Survivors have no comeback mechanism once an elimination takes place. The result is immediately locked in if someone is eliminated at 2+ gens. The survivors have quite literally zero incentive to progress objectives or do anything meaningful. Speed the game up at that point. If DbD were a bus driver, they'd make all the passengers stay seated for 5-10 minutes at the destination before letting them off the bus.
There are bandaid solutions they could take to address slugging for the 4k. The hatch could open after 1 minute of being slugged in a 2v1. Two hatches could open. Something to just let. the. game. end. A trial in DbD has 10 minutes of good content, tops. Anything more than that needs to be iterated on or eliminated.
The finisher mori just made this problem infinitely worse, so you are frequently subjected to 4 minutes of being slugged as your team mate will often choose to evade the killer and hide it out. I don't even blame my team mate and I am kinda with them in principle as it at times feels kind of petty when a killer has decisively won a match they still want to waste everyone else's time because gotta get the 4k, right?
I guess I am different but when a match is over I really just want to move on to the next one, so I am fine with it being down to RNG and whoever finds the hatch first… meh.
I just played 10 Survivor games tonight. You know how many Killers did this? How many actually did this?
0.Not a single one.
You're being disingenuous or you're hilariously unlucky. This simply doesn't happen as often as you think it does.
I think mmr and time of the day plays a part in the frequency it happens. As survivor killers have slugged me to get my team mate and also slugged my team mate to hunt for me very often....it happens a lot.
Also I played multiple matches as killer tonight, every single match that it was an option, I slugged the 3rd to find the 4th. 3 of the matches i actively kept the slug alive by carrying them around the map with me. And all 3 times I did this the 3rd survivor had enough and lead me to the 4th survivor to get the match over with. It happens a lot, if you haven't had it happen to you then you have been very lucky lol.
Forget the "greedy" argument, because it goes both ways. Survivors can be greedy for an escape they didn't earn, because that's what hatch is.
The problems are hatch and being stuck on the ground. I've argued for removing the hatch, but I don't really know anymore. It's definitely good to have around if you get bad teammates and are forced to use it, because you know y'all are never getting 5 gens done. The cost we pay for keeping it, of course, is that certain people will escape who didn't deserve to. The devs should just add a "speed up the bleed-out timer" button, so that people can exit these matches faster. I don't think letting people instantly DC with no consequence is the solution.
it is finny because quite often you will see a case of slugging for 4k ending up with slugged survivor intentionally crawling towards a random spot to intentionally waste much more of time time and for them to eventually bleed out after other survivor has been found and hooked
At least you can force them to leave to end the match.
Personally, unless there is a reason for me to stay in the match (challenge - rescue survivors), I leave immediately.
Well, since we already know that slugging a surv for the full duratrion isn't reportable for holding the game hostage or not progressing the match (there are hooks, you know) - then a surv is also not reportable for holding the game hostage or not progressing the match if they wait out said timer. After that the objective has changed; to progress the game they gotta look for hatch. If the killer finds the hatch first then the objective changes yet again - but again with a timer so that "taking the game hostage" is impossible (that's the primary purpose of egc).
The killer is petty when they go out of their way to slug for 4k. - Responding to that in an equally petty way by denying them the mori and the 4k-with-agency (dying to egc certainly isn't to the killer's credit) seems only fair. A kill by egc is even more free and less earned than an escape via hatch. I mean, sure, if it helps a killer player feel better about themselves they can tack than on their record and be all braggy and proud about a 4k but, eh.
If there is a timer the survivor can wait it out if they wish, if the hatch has spawned then the objective shifts from gens to hatch. But if there is no egc timer, no hatch has spawned and the survivor still avoids the gens then that is reportable as it doesn't progress the match. There is a big difference between egc timer and server end timer and sever ends after 1 hour. Slugging does progress the match as it has a bleed out timer similar to hook timer. The timer is longer but it's still a timer and it still progresses the match when that timer expires. It doesn't what way you try and swing it, survivors avoiding gens when hatch is not available is
Some might call it petty to slug for 4k but the fact that killers do this for a reason (4k and mori) and survivors try to deny it for no reason other than spite shows the survivor being way more petty imo. That's exactly why I keep 3rd survivor alive for as long as possible carry them around the map if need be because that last survivor is not only wasting my time, they are wasting their own time and the 3rd survivors time by hiding. Usually the 3rd survivor will get fed up and lead me to the 4th so I get the 4k and end the match. If a survivor wants to be petty and drag it out for the whole hour that's fine by me, but I'm not sure the 3rd survivor would appreciate being held in the match as a result.
They said before the reason for slugging is hooks breaking and not respawn and they fix it and they still slug, now it's the hutch fault the devs maybe will fix it and they will still slug, then it will be because survivors perks activate from hooks so they will still slug, there is no amount of fixes to them to stop this bad gameplay they need to punish it.
I'm not trying to "swing" it. - It's really quite simple and straightforward? "It is reportable as it isn't progressing the match" — absolutely - but you do realise that it becomes reportable only once a certain time has passed without progressing the objective? Which also goes for both killer and surv? - Or are you seriously suggesting killers and survs run on different timers?
there is no such thing as "more petty" - just as there is no thing such as "more illegal". - But if there was I suppose your reaction would even top the survivor's one.
But hey, the way you express your thoughts already tells me all I need to know and am really glad this is just a game and not something actually important where I'd feel compelled to argue with you. So… I guess have a nice day?
I played at night (the sweatiest time) and I play at decent Survivor MMR. I have done this for two years.
I can count the actual times I have been forcibly truly toxically tunnelled, camped, or slugged like this on one hand. OVER TWO YEARS.
I think you just, like many others, believe certain things that aren't toxic, are. it's an easy mistake to make. If you're really getting this that much, run the perks that help.
The maybe the Devs need to stop adding things that make hooking unappealing, because there's multiple perks and survivor tactics that counter slugging like this.
The gameplay is intended, as sometimes there's a tactical reason to leave a down for pressure for a couple seconds to a minute. The problem isn't prolonged downs, it's when people slug so severely they four man down, and leave everyone to bleed for minutes on end without even TRYING to hook. THAT is slugging.
I'm aware the time scale applies to killers too, I never claimed it didn't lol. But you claimed slugging isn't progressing the match when it does. And there is technically a thing called more petty and more illegal... It's called severity. Depending on the severity depends on the punishment. And in that regard yes my actions of pettiness can top the survivors actions. When looking at it that way, is it really worth it for a survivor to be petty out of spite?
We need to think extremes before doing something as drastic as removing the hatch. Think worst case. If you meet a bunch of new players, and 3k at 5 gens, what is the worst you could do to the remaining survivor? You could follow them as they finish all 5 gens, then kill them the moment they've opened the exit gate. You could do literally anything you wanted with them with zero natural way for the game to end other than them to finish gens or you to kill them.
You could wait for them to do gens, grab them and drop them, over and over to make sure they never bled out.
The worst you can do now is stand on top of hatch, which personally I don't get why it doesn't auto close to prevent stalling like that. Without hatch, I assure you that survivors would give up way, way more frequently. And at the same time, the 2v1 situation may actually get worse. Because there's one more reason to hide and prevent a 4k: To spite the killer and waste their time. In fact, the 1v1 could get worse too. How many survivors just run to a corner and hide once 3 players are dead, and wait out the entire EGC? Who knows how long these players would be willing to hide in a corner with no EGC to kill them.
Removing hatch would be bad for both sides. I have much more faith in incentivizing a 3k. How about this: After 3 survivors are dead, the killer can go to basement, interact with a glyph, and simply leave the match, also getting a nice BP bonus along with it, officially "winning" the game. Then the last survivor would be left alone in the trial and can leave or die as they please. If the gens weren't done, this would count as a 4k in terms of stats.
That way, killers have zero reason to slug for the 4k because at 3k, they've already won and can also leave the match without feeling like the fourth person "got away". What do you think about that?
Engrish…The cause is horrible game design lol.
One thing I am facing more and more is a killer who tunnels the first survivor hooked and they (the survivor will) DC, so at that point the match is over so we may as well go next. But when I have indicated to the killer to just hook me they instead will slug me and let me bleed out rather than hook me.
So we are being forced to stay in to be their play thing in an unwinnable match and we cant leave or we get a penalty. This feels unfair as I didn't DC in the first place but we are forced to stay in an unwinnable match regardless.
Or, we make the main objective more accessible relative to how many survivors there are left so survivors don’t feel the need to hide out for the hatch. That is the REAL reason we end up in this statemate.
If the hatch were removed survivors would still try and escape via the doors, which would see an increase in sole survivor and wake up, and then Killers would moan they need to be nerfed. The conversation would then become ‘I need to slug because of Sole Survivor and Wake Up’ when the real reason they’re slugging is the reason they’re doing it now - they want an easy 4K. There’s always an excuse, but that’s always the reason.
The worst I could do as killer that you described without the hatch, I can do that with the hatch... just do it in 2 v 1 situations. So instead of getting 3k to be in that position it's 2k currently. What I suggest isn't only removal of the hatch but swapping it for a button similar to a glyph you mentioned that the killer and survivor can press instead of the hatch which activates egc. Instead of giving survivors a free escape and a reason to hide for the free escape and a reason for the killer to slug to prevent a free escape, it would be a simple button or glyph on the map that would start the countdown. If it's down to last survivor and there are multiple gens left, they have lost and should die one way or another not given a free escape.
That's why survivors shouldn't have a free escape at the end no matter what it is, hatch or doors. If a free escape is an option the killer will do whatever they need to in order to prevent it. If gens can't be done due to not enough survivors to win then the match is won by the killer so make it easier for the killer to wrap it up and move on. Not give survivors incentive to drag out a match they lost. When the match is clearly won by the killer the killer needs a way to start the egc.
The fact that as a survivor I could do nothing all match, possibly deliberately sabotage my team so I'm last man standing with a shot at getting a hatch is a free escape...not a guarantee escape but it's still a free escape as I would have done nothing other than be first to find a hatch especially with the rng meaning it's possible for hatch to spawn right under the survivors feet. It can even be opened with a key when killer closes it and tracked with a map. If survivors want to escape it should be earned by doing gens and working as a team.... Failing that they failed the objective, killer wins. Not do literally nothing all match and still escape. And for as long as that unearned escape exists killers will find ways to prevent it such as slugging the 3rd or keeping them alive to make sure the hatch doesn't spawn while they look for the 4th.
Slugging for the 4k = Winning the game? Since when do people play a game to lose? I will let people have hatch or escape through the gate from time to time, I understand that we're all just trying to have fun. But sometimes I need to maximize that bp and I'll use any tactic available to me to secure that. The same goes for survivors- hence bully squads, swf, etc. Hard pill to swallow I know; but sometimes you're gonna get stomped (Happens to me all the time). It does however become wholly toxic and near unacceptable when a killer is just slugging to waste time. That is dumb there should be a penalty for having everyone down on the ground for longer than 3 minutes or something. This only becomes a problem when survivors crawl to hide and the killer can't find them again therefore giving an undeserved penalty if the killer is trying but can't manage to find you after 3 minutes. There is no reason not to hook people if they can't do anything besides crawl for 4 minutes.
What part is bannable? If 3 survivors don't feel they can do 4 gens and want to throw in the towel then yes I would rather accept their surrender, get the 4k and move on. Saves the usual slugging for 4k, could just kill 3rd survivor then look for the 4th as normal. They can either try do gens or if they can't do them then admit defeat and move on. Or hide but with no hatch mechanic I don't see much reason to hide other than to be toxic.
If there are multiple gens left, that button is pretty much a guaranteed loss for the survivor because they can't finish the gens in time or leave even if given the choice. At that point, the button may as well just instantly kill the remaining survivor. Or better yet, if there's still gens left on the map when 3 survivors are dead, the last survivor immediately dies as well. If we're placing the last survivor into a situation they can't win from literally no matter what they do, may as well make it quick, this game already wastes enough time as it is. But at the same time, wouldn't it be a little boring that the last survivor just immediately dies too?
I just don't see the harm in the killer simply leaving the match with a BP bonus from the basement glyph. At that point, does it even matter if the survivor lives or dies? The survivor team lost. If it's very important, maybe the survivor wouldn't get any extra BP for escaping if the killer chooses to do this, and it wouldn't show up as an escape on the scoreboard because the killer "gifted" it to them.
The only thing I don't like about hatch is the randomness of it, and how gate spawns can make it either super easy or super hard to prevent the last survivor from escaping after the third is dead. I'd much rather have the option to either cash in the 3k through a glyph, or even challenge the survivor to a chase directly for the 4k, whoever wins gets a nice BP bonus. Is it that important that the 4th survivor dies to feel like you've won the match? Anything after the 3k is just formalities at that point, the game is over, why make it feel hopeless and pointless for the last survivor by locking them into a 2 minute EGC they can't even escape from no matter what?