Prometheus1092
Prometheus1092
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809524#Comment_3809524
No. It just shows that those killers lack skill to use their powers properly without slowdown as good killers can do.
I think the fact so many killers "lack skill" with no perks while survivors can easily loop from pallet to pallet without perks shows the killers should be buffed so they don't require perks just like survivors. Can't have it all ways, nerf the killers, nerd the perks what do you expect killers to do? They will find other ways to kill, ways that often survivors don't enjoy.
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@DeBecker said:
Especially in chaos shuffle you can uncover the lack of skill on killer players. As long as they cant rely on their four slowdowns theyre instantly shifting to cheap game mechanics no matter the "strategy".
Doesn't that show that gens pop too fast? Without slow down perks killers seem to have to use other tactics
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@Nathan13 said:
These add ons are probably the most boring ones to go against, when I play Myers even I don’t find it fun. I really wanna see Myers reworked or something and we need to revisit the add ons. Theres also that mori achievement which is so obnoxious to get because survivors can constantly hop in lockers.
Not that I blame survivors because I don’t like being tombstone’d at 5 gens because thats some BS.Most Myers use infinite T3 with tombstone which takes forever to build up so if your getting tombstoned at 5 gens left then the survivors are definitely doing something wrong. Each to their own regarding fun but there are many people that enjoy playing and going against tombstone Myers because it gives him a threatening edge that no other killer has. Pretty much all other killers are seen as play things for survivors to loop and do the whole "come get me" thing. Myers is the only one that instills true dread and makes a survivor run for their life which is what the killer role should be imo.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808384#Comment_3808384
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808689#Comment_3808689
Yes the game is so ridiculously killer sided now and people want to make it more so. Balance the freaking game it will help so many things like making dc'd and hook suicided go down. Its like im only playing in solo que anymore out of stubnorness and hope that Bhvr. will eventually fix their game.
And also even though everyone quotes that mod no one has an example of anyone being banned or even warned for that. Probably because Bhvr. knows it would be ridiculous to punish a survivor for doing their objective i.e. trying to survive.
Survivors objective is to escape not simply "survive" if it was to survive then after a certain time the survivor would win, but as it's to escape, after a certain time they are automatically sacrificed (for failing the objective in a reasonable timeframe). Therefore it would be reasonable to punish survivors for not doing the objective of escaping. Surviving is a means to escape (can't escape if your dead) but if there are no attempts to escape then surviving doesn't mean anything.
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Played a match earlier, had lethal persuer on, went to 1 of the auras, injured him pretty quick. Shortly after I got him down, as I went for the pick up he DC lol. The other 3 survivors gave it a hell of a go for the rest of the match so had he stayed in the game they might have won.... Or they did pretty good because the bot was a better player than the guy that DC. Either way, the amount of survivors that DC unbelievably early is crazy.
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Yes cheaters use ddos or something to crash the server. I have had it done to me many times, every time when I catch last survivor or when I'm about to win. Never happens when I'm losing. Last time the survivor was opening the gate, I caught him and server went down before I could get the hook.
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Fun is subjective, some killers find slugging for the win fun. You might not understand how or why but some killers don't understand how or why some survivors find going in circles around a killer is fun. We each have our own version of fun, as long as they abide by the games rules then its all good.
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@drsoontm said:
During a recent match, a survivor has spent his time hiding from the killer.
When his 3 teammates where dead, he got the hatch.
Then, like the fool he was, he gloated about it in the the chat.
A true facepalm moment.
I wonder if, one day, he'll understand that if instead of hiding he'd took a few chases, then maybe the killer wouldn't have won.
Maybe one or two more could have escaped instead.
I wonder how many survivors don't realize hook stages are a resource to spend to ensure the survival of your team.
Another reason why I slug the 3rd survivor, find the last one, hook em then go back and hook the 3rd guy. If I don't find the last one I time before other guy bleeds out I pick em up and let em go so I can look longer. Survivors that do nothing all match, don't contribute to the team and expect the hatch escape don't deserve the escape imo
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I have probably been given a lot of 1 dots if I'm honest, I'm seemingly always upsetting survivors. Most of the time it's because they don't like my perks, or my playstyle. But I get it, recently went against a swf with 3 flashlights (they obviously find blinding the killer every few seconds fun). They were very disappointed with my light born, tunneling and camping and noed combo which caused them all to be sacrificed. They didn't have fun because they couldn't do what they went into the match to do so I probably had 1 dot. So far, in all the years of playing I don't think I have noticed the dots make a difference, I'm still going against the same type of people do to my MMR
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@LadyOwO said:
It's not at all holding the game hostage in anyway shape or form
It 100% is holding the game hostage, Devs have said so many times. Avoiding the objective (gens) when the hatch isn't available is reportable for holding the game hostage.
image-2024-08-14-213152145.png cf218859-6bbc-4cca-9bab-2d0eb9d22e57.jpeg -
@mysticalCat said:
We need this to be bannable. I wish dbd had the option like Fortnite to record previous matches(idk maybe you all do) but this tunneling and slugging has gotten out of hand. And no I’m not going to run anti tunnel build. Shouldn’t have to. The game is just not playable as a survivor. Tunneled out at 5 gens slugged at 5 gens, it’s so gross. You can definitely tell the kiddos are on this game. Also that’s another point to mention. You should probably add some verification to prove that the players are 18+. I loved this game but now, idk anymore. Literally there was a streamer (not mentioning them) that had a title on their stream as slugging in chaos mode. And literally bled everyone out. At 5 gens…. Dbd / behaviour / devs please make the QOL adjustments for us solo enjoyers. It’s just not fun anymore…..
Don't like it? Don't play. This is this game, so maybe survivor role just isn't for you?
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@mysticalCat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807672#Comment_3807672
but yet you made a post about slugging for the 4k. Must’ve been a survivor but now a killer main suggesting all of this. I guess my hunch was right and you are one of the culprits that have made the game miserable.
Im still not sure how any people are to blame for "ruining" the game by simply playing the game. the killers objective is to kill the survivors before they escape. The survivors objective is to escape before they are killed. If people feel the game is "ruined" by these tactics then maybe the game isn't for you? I see a lot of complaints saying it's not fun for a survivor to be tunneled out .. just admit that you don't enjoy being a survivor. At least then you can make changes yourself to better things instead of relying on other people to change because you not having fun.
Changes you can make yourself include, learning to counter these tactics you find boring so you stay in the game longer and have fun, or changing to killer side? Survivor isn't for everyone so maybe you would have more fun as a killer instead. Or play a different game. No one forcing anyone to play the game and if you don't like how people play it then play a game that you enjoy more.
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Im glad looping is loosing its appeal, maybe survivors can learn new ways to play instead of that 1 trick pony scooby doo chase match after match. Some people think going in circles is skillful, I was survivor main for 2 years so I know it really isn't. Just need to memorize the pattern of the jungle gyms and such. But just know if your a 1 trick pony it won't always work and it doesn't last forever especially against a killer that knows the loops as good as you. The skill is to use the pallets and vault locations to lose line of sight, that's how survivors escape when I'm the killer. Try looping with the intent to keep the killer on you until gens are done (which so many try to do) is a death sentence when going against me because one way or another that looper is being taken out even if means I dont get the 4k.
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@Nazzzak said:
"When gen regression was strong, survivors had an issue with that"
Yes, we had an issue with 40+ minute games, that is true.
Funny how survivors had an issue with 40+ minute games then but yet they are fine waiting the 40+ minutes hiding out to get the hatch when it's 2 v 1
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806929#Comment_3806929
Don't hard tunnel. Don't hard camp. Don't intentionally make the game miserable for the survivors.I wish this was true. Even the most recent game I played from last night, I didn’t tunnel, I didn’t camp, I didn’t slug, I didn’t bring gen slowdown, I didn’t 3 gen. I got a 2K and what did I see in endgame chat?
“L lightborn user, touch grass and learn to play”
Yup. I brought lightborn like I usually do counter flashbangs, didn’t even end up using it that game, but no, I need to “learn to play.”
There’s no way to make survivors happy. They will always find something to complain about the way killers play.
100% this. Play "fair" as survivors put it and killer gets t bagged at the gates by a group of survivors that then throw insults post match. "Get good" or complain about a perk being used as a crutch.
If survivors want no tunneling, camping or slugging then gens completion should take longer so the killer has time to spread the hooks. (They won't like that either). I actually used to spread hooks majority of my games, win or lose. That was until the gens started popping crazy fast and survivors attitude post game was generally awful match after match. Since then....I just do what I need to do to win and have fun regardless of what the survivor rulebook says.
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Ye I had a match recently where survivors complained I was cheating because I "know where they are all the time". lol it was like 2min into the match, I had lethal pursuer and whispers on, chased and hooked a guy (from lethal pursuer aura) headed for the closest gen, heard whispers and found all 3 guys doing a gen... Downed 2 of them, went back to the hook to stop the save, downed the last guy.... Went round cleaning up hooking the 3 survivors. I said look at my perks, that's how I found them and the reply I got was " ye that's what cheaters say to hide the fact they are cheating" just can't argue with stupidity smh
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806230#Comment_3806230
I don’t have a problem with (normal) gen slowdown, but it is completely untrue to say people use it because “gen’s too fast.” When slowdown was at peak strength 1-2 years ago people stacked those perks and gens took almost 200 seconds or longer per gen to complete. This was after a bunch of buffs to killer and nerfs to survivor.
A major part of why slowdown perks have been so heavily nerfed is because of what people did with them back then.
I'd say they have been nerfed to a normal state. People still use them because they feel gens go too fast. Even with them I'm finding gens are flying, if I don't get a down in this first 45 seconds of the match I know I'm going to be up against it and makes me think "do I have time to get 12 hooks?" If the answer is no then I tunnel, slug or do what I need to do to win. I know some will use slowdown perks regardless and some will slug and tunnel regardless but these get used more if gens fly and the killers get the "your toxic" treatment.
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Anything to get away from the gen slow down meta? The reason why people use them is because gens fly way too fast. Your answer to this is "If all those options are off the table, corrupt and pain res both need significant nerfs" so making them so bad it's pointless having them is the solution? How about making gens take longer to complete so people don't feel they need to use slow down perks?
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805523#Comment_3805523
You're also neglecting the fact that I initially said I didn't think tunneling was the main problem now and proximity camping was the bigger issue.
It's pointless continuing this discussion we both have different opinions on what is and isn't toxic. I could give you multiple examples on how to counter these types of SWFs with a few perks, but it still doesn't make it any less toxic. Exactly the same argument as yours with tunnelling but on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Indeed we have different views of what toxic means. Which was my initial point that the term "toxic" has lost all meaning. Toxic players has always been known as people who chat abuse and have a negative attitude before, during or after a game, play in a way to intentionally grief, abuse and make players experience miserable.... It's exits in all games not just dbd. This term "toxic" has now evolved into meaning a player that plays in a style that the opposition doesn't like.
There is a big difference between someone using a a tactic to win than someone using a tactic to be malicious. Big difference between slugging, tunneling and camping Vs a killer body blocking a survivor to stop them from getting out of a corner. I have a clear way to define what toxic behaviour is (as it's usually seen in games) but I am curious how you would define what is toxic and what is just something that someone doesn't like.
If proxi camping is toxic behaviour then why are things like flashlight and flash bangs not? Both are equally not enjoyable by opposing sides. And what is a killer supposed to do to not be toxic? Bare in mind the list of toxic plays is long....slugging, tunneling, camping, even use of certain perks like noed or killers with certain builds like double iri Myers is considered toxic, there many more that apparently makes a killer toxic.
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805273#Comment_3805273
Well I could just play devil's advocate and say that people playing in SWF with the intention using flashlights, flash bangs, sabotage, body blocking etc etc is also not toxic because it's an integral part of the game mechanics and also a valid way for a SWF to win as they usually have one designated gen jockey. It's just not the normal way to win. Their intention is to waste the killers time or force them to give up by forcing them into an unwinnable position, which is basically exactly what camping and tunneling does when someone is forced out at 4/5 gens. The player being tunnelled will normally give up followed by the team.
I personally think both killers & survivors are playing in a toxic manner when they play the game in this way.
New players certainly don't need to tunnel when they're in low MMR playing against low MMR survivors. They do it because it's easy which often forces them into the higher MMR brackets before they gain enough experience and skill to compete. They get stuck in the cycle of relying on tunneling/camping as a crutch to beat better teams which really isn't a requirement for most normal solo queue games but they do it anyway to the detriment of other players experience. That's not solely on the players though it's a problem with DBD itself and it's just too easy to do and doesn't really have enough punishing mechanics to prevent it. Even though they've added things like hook timers, endurance & increased hook times it barely does anything. I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I've seen a hook timer actually work and killers are proximity camping or tunneling easily 40-50% of the games in solo queue.
How can you learn not to be camped or tunneled in solo queue? You need to sacrifice too much in order to counter it if you're playing solo, which cripples you during chase and it's almost impossible to coordinate solo queue teammates unless you have 4 experienced players. How can new survivors get better at the game if they face this type of play all the time?
Both ways are toxic and detrimental to players on both sides, but it's almost an impossible task to fix it without a complete overhaul certain mechanics followed by a massive perk rework. Probably never going to happen and I think if they ever make 8v2 a regular thing it's going to completely destroy 1v4 mode for Killers. You'll be lucky to get 1-2 games per hour if that happens.
You completely neglecting the part that I said "with no intention to do gens" these are toxic. Using flashlight and flash bangs and pallets to accomplish the goal of getting gens done is fine. That's part of the game, exactly the same as tunneling or camping.
Low MMR means nothing because there are many people that create new accounts or deliberately lose matches to lower MMR with the intention to get easier matches.
I was a survivor a long time ago and I learnt to counter the tunnelers by equipping the right perks and not goading the killer into chasing me. People can counter it and can learn if they choose to. It's not unwinnable tactic even in soloq...I know I've done it many times and many soloq have beaten me when I do tunnel and camp. It seems to me that the thing that makes something toxic is something that requires no skill and if the survivors are having fun. If these 2 criteria are hit then it's considered toxic. Which to survivors the only way a killer can play in a non toxic way is if they spread hooks, let survivors go, weaken their build (play how they want the killer to be played) there doesn't seem to be any difference between something they dont like and something toxic, because if they dont like it and it requires no skill the survivors find it boring...which is described as being toxic.
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804670#Comment_3804670
Tunneling & camping is toxic. You either haven't played survivor enough to see how it negatively effects all aspects of survivor gameplay or are trying to justify it because you use it as a crutch to win games. Just because it's not against the rules doesn't make it any less toxic. Good killers don't need to tunnel or camp. When it doesn't happen games significantly more enjoyable.
You mentioned that if you tunnel or camp and someone says something to you then you're glad you did it because they apparently have a bad attitude. However that might have been the 5th game in a row that person got camped or tunneled by bad killers and they're venting their frustrations. Doesn't mean they have a bad attitude just sick of an outdated mechanic that many people rely on as a crutch to win matches. I wouldn't even say tunneling is the main thing anymore I've seen much more proximity camping happening these days often resulting in 1 on hook and 1 down because they can't get the rescue.
I for one would welcome a complete removal or significantly increased punishments in game for both types of play. Won't ever happen though the kill rates would plummet and people would actually have to learn how to play Killer properly. I'm not even a survivor main and have a lot more experience and skill in the killer role and would still welcome it.
You say good killers don't need to camp or tunnel, that suggests that new players that are not that good at the game are toxic by default if they use a method that works for them. We all have to start somewhere and there are killers out there that are not good enough to deal with swf teams, if they camp and tunnel to get a few kills good on them for finding a way to beat the competition. I was a survivor main for 2 years I know the pains of camping, tunneling, slugging and all other killer tactics but that's not toxic behaviour. Now I'm a killer main I know what true toxicity is. Swf squads armed with flashlight, flashbang, spend the whole match blinding the killer with no intention of doing gens. That's toxic.
And the fact they might have had 5 games in a row being tunneled out is irrelevant, at that point it's time to learn to counter it or have a break. People are free to vent all they want, but I stand by my way of thinking.... Mouthing off post game makes me think "bad attitude, deserved to be tunneled out"
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@Lost_Boy said:
If you tunnel or camp you should expect to get some form of complaint in end game chat regardless of your own opinion if it's okay or not. The only way to truly avoid snidey comments in end game chat is by beating people in a way that they can't complain about I. e not camping or tunneling and getting a 3-4k. Even then you'll still get it from time to time, but it's much more uncommon.
The way some killers play is an issue for the health of the game which often results in people being angry and in turn they let out their frustrations by being abusive. It's exactly the same on the opposite end of the spectrum and killers are also inclined to do it because of survivors being toxic in game. Basically a vicious cycle that can only be changed by some serious changes to some mechanics or by the community playing the game. Until then just except the fact that if you play in a certain way you should expect to get backlash for it.
There is always something for someone to complain about. The only way to avoid abusive comments in chat is to play how the survivors want you to play, that includes no tunneling, camping, slugging, no using certain perks such as noed, no using certain killers such as Myers, no getting kills. These are all part of the game and should be expected. They are not unhealthy for the game, they are unhealthy for the survivor that just doesn't like something. Killers don't like body blocking to prevent hooks but I don't ever hear the same salty comments from killers "get good, you only won by body blocking"
These survivors that mouth off post match don't do themselves any favours. For me, if I tunnel or camp and someone vents about it I'm thinking "good job I did what I did, would hate for this player to have won with that horrendous attitude"
You also mentioned killers are inclined to do it due to toxic behaviour. But tunneling and camping is not toxic behaviour. That's the difference. Killers will vent when going against toxic players (players who deliberately set out to make the game miserable for the opponent) because they are not trying to play the game, they are trying to be toxic. Killers that tunnel and camp are not deliberately trying to make the game miserable for the survivors they are just playing the game, going for kills. The point is killers vent over true toxicity, survivors vent over literally everything and put everything down to being toxic when it's not. The whole meaning of toxic players has been lost due to literally everything that results in a killer winning being considered toxic, which results in abusive chat.
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@mecca said:
To prevent standoffs, the hatch should spawn with two survivors and it can be opened if found.
But it'll never happen because the game for whatever fosters this mentality that killers are entitled to a 4K and BHVR supports it. Survivors are not supposed to have a way out.
I think the way to get out is do gens, open gate and escape. That is the way out. The point is when they fail to do that, they get another chance, another way out via hatch. Why stop there? If they fail to get to the hatch why not have a dragon swoop down for survivors to grab on to so they can fly out? How many chances do survivors need? They failed the objective so why should they have another shot at escape? An escape that required nothing throughout the match, only to remain out of sight not being a team player going for saves not doing gens.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803468#Comment_3803468
Well, I mean, Survivors aren't called Mechanics. And it's stated that the goal of the Killer is to Hook Survivors for the Entity. Bleeding Survivors out is kinda counter that goal. So maybe it gets uppity.
They are not called hiders either, bottom line is Devs made the game, they make the rules. According to Devs, survivor aim is to do gens and escape. Killers aim is get kills not only sacrifice for entity but kills in general. Sacrifice or Mori or bleed out all counts as kills. Wouldn't make sense to say the aim is only to get sacrifices when Devs are introducing basekit Mori. Avoiding the objectives while preventing the opponent from accomplishing theirs is called holding game hostage, as the survivor objective is gens untill the hatch becomes available then hiding is not only avoiding the objective but it's preventing the killer from accomplishing theirs. (Can't get kills if can't find them).
Unless the Devs make a drastic U turn on the current goals and objectives then it is what it is.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803432#Comment_3803432
No, they wouldn't' be sacrificed, they'd have "escaped" the Killer/Killer couldn't find them and kill them.
Lol escaped how? Defeats the purpose of doing gens at all, hide the whole game and magically escape. You have just created a whole different game with a completely different premise by changing the goal of the survivor from escaping to hiding.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803398#Comment_3803398
Hmm, maybe because the server timeout is too long. Perhaps it should be shortened to something like 15min. Then it would be a more comparable timer: The Survivors managed to "hideout" the Killer.
I would be fine with 15min timer tbh, 2 survivors remaining, 15min timer until they are both sacrificed. Beats the 1 hour timer it currently has.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803387#Comment_3803387
The server ending is a timer, just an even less engaging one, much like bleeding out is relatively unengaging unless you specifically have perks for it. I could say that you should be using Whispers and stop complaining. But Perk solutions generally force a meta of necessity.
Server end is not the same timer as bleed out, there is a reason why slugging isn't reportable but avoiding gens and deliberately hiding to server end time is reportable. Killers shouldn't have to go into a match fully loaded to counter a tactic that isn't even allowed.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803268#Comment_3803268
Survivors don't like being slugged for the 4K because just like the survivors stalling (and "surviving" technically), the Killer in that case is "stalling" to get the satisfaction of more kills instead of moving the game along.
I definitely wouldn't mind the idle crow system being a little bit more oppressive if the survivors don't interact with objectives, but at the same time slugging for the 4K needs to go.
I agree slugging to get 4k should go, killers shouldn't have to slug to get 4k in a match they steamrolled and hands down won. But I would disagree that slugging is stalling. Bleed out has a timer, bit longer than on hook but still has a timer. Survivors avoiding gens and hiding has no timer. It's infinite until killer finds them or server ends. If killers avoided chases and didn't slug or go for hooks then ye I would say they are intentionally stalling to get 4k by means of server end. But killers are accomplishing the objective by hooking or bleeding out.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803139#Comment_3803139
But that also gives survivors more of an incentive to just "quit/surrender" if they feel the game is lost and there is no carrot or incentive for them to chase even in defeat. But perhaps creating a more formal forfeit mechanic is what could be better.
I'd say a formal forfeit would work but survivors already have the option to surrender by allowing themselves to be hooked if they want. They only don't surrender because of the hatch as an option. Which is why I'm fine with the hatch being an option so survivors have an incentive as long as there is some sort of aura reading or someway for the killer to find the survivors after a certain amount of time. I would rather give survivors incentive to surrender than give incentive to drag out a match the killer has already won tho, bots do gens. The in game advice for killers is to patrol gens as it's a good way to find survivors. If they don't do gens and hide it's incredibly difficult to find them especially on some maps.
I see it as if they acknowledge the loss then it's time to end it and move on not prolong the match because as it stands the 2 v 1 stand off is a big problem. Survivors refuse to do gens but don't like being slugged. The other option would be the killer not slug and intentionally lose the chase when they find the 3rd survivor to drag out until server end time which results in auto sacrifice.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803139#Comment_3803139
While it happens, both survivors hard hiding and forcing me to waste 5+ minutes finding them is rare in my experience. Most players are willing to engage.
If there was no hatch, you would see mass giving up whenever someone dies at 3 or earlier gens, whenever there's an afk survivor, whenever someone gets tunneled, etc. Which is extremely boring for both the other survivors and the killer. The possibility of hatch encourages survivors to keep competing when their objective is otherwise improbable instead of hurrying on to the next, potentially winnable game, or refusing to play out of spite. Yes, people already do these things… but you underestimate the potential of things to get worse.
In my experience the possibility of the hatch encourages survivors to not engage, actively avoiding gens. Nearly 50% of my matches I would say. It essentially encourages survivors to break the rules as avoiding gens when hatch hasn't spawned is reportable and results in auto sacrifice when server ends anyway. I understand why they avoid gens, if they can't be done then the match is pretty much over as they acknowledge they can't complete the objective so it's time to move on not hang a carrot Infront of a survivor and try make them play a match they have already lost. Personally I would prefer hatch to be removed or at least give killers base kit aura read after a certain time. It would reduce the incentive to hide for a prolonged time and reduce the need to slug.
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@Laluzi said:
Slugging for hatch is extremely boring and it's bad game design that it's incentivized, but as long as challenges and achievements (and now mori offerings…) ask for a 4k, killers don't really have any choice but to try and work around the coin flip that can instantly lose them a game they won in every other respect.
Hatch has to exist, or survivors would always hide or give up as soon as a game started going poorly, but it consistently screws over the killer for winning.
To be fair players hide when it's 2 v 1 anyway, they know hatch is an option so it puts the game in a stand off position where survivors don't do gens (because what's the point?). They hide and hope the other player gets found and killed first. I don't see how removing the hatch would make this any worse because the result of removing the hatch is already happening with the hatch as an option. If anything removal of the hatch would mean there is no good reason for survivors to hide while refusing to do gens (other than to deliberately hold up the game) so might actually benefit the game.
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@Jay1283 said:
nah hatch is gameplay. We all get the same perk amounts etc. sometiles every game you play has a miller / survivor with this gameplay style. It guarantees a kill on all survivors IF they dont let the one who should have doed first survive. Playing like this means there is no way you can win UNLESS…your the survivor they choose to let win.
killers have as much chance to hear a hatch as anyone. And if you do go help the downed survivor 98% of the time the killers lurking waiting. Somwhy would you save them to all die anyway. But then if the survivor gets a chance they sell you out. Which is also crap. Uts fun because you have a chance to win. It’s not when killers do all they can to make sure they win! And its every game you play. Why bother?Yes hatch is gameplay but so is slugging. It's a legit tactic that can and will be used to help the killer. I say help the killer because there has been times I have slugged 3rd survivor, hooked the last one then the survivor I left slugged crawled to the hatch before I could go back to hook them. So it's not a guarantee to actually work. As someone previously mentioned, selling out team mates can be reported as it's against the rules but slugging is fair game. Survivors worst enemy are their own team mates unfortunately.
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I think these killers are playing a fair game. If survivors get steamrolled and killer is left with 2 survivors remaining is it fair that the last survivor can get easy hatch escape? I would say no lol if killer steamrolled the game so is just ensuring they get they kills and the BP.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801894#Comment_3801894
Do you really think the mode is easier as survivor? I don't think you are being sincere. And why would survivors ever be satisfied when the statistics show the game is killer sided. Yeah you can say all you want killer is supposed to be the power role, but as long as the results are so lopsided survivors will keep complaining and feel justified to do so.
I genuinely do think it's easier as survivor, I tried killer a few times and gens just flew. Tried survivor and I did fine, escaped many times and got the tome done. And you the nail on the head there with the statistics and balance issues because that's my point. I find many survivors want to be on par with the killer or have the balance tipped in survivors favour which the Devs actively prevent from happening which is why they will never be satisfied.
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And survivors wonder why killers slug lol they use flashlight and flash bangs and then complain about being slugged saying it's toxic and boring. Makes no sense.
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@Gplays2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802130#Comment_3802130
Shouldn't killers get punished for leaving one of the players in an uninteractive state for literally over a minute? Idk about you but IMO they should get punished… Staying on the ground for over 60 seconds and basically being forced to bring a perk for this situation is truly misery in itself and should not happen. The solution is called pick someone up before 60 seconds…they literally get a whole minute? If they don't want to that person gets to pick himself up and continue playing the game….
Solution being pick them up before 60 sec? And if people have flashlight and flash bang or next to a pallet? What's the solution then? Can't pick up and can't leave them on the ground, lose lose situation for killer and win win situation for survivor.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CLTCPFXL3LO7/image.png
As expected, the bloodpoints bonus has been on survivor since the modifier got implemented on Thursday because it is still poorly designed for survivor gameplay. The killer pool that they face there is constantly the same with borderline abusive powers (info related) in a mode that is supposed to play around exactly not having infos. They completely destroy the point of the game mode and it's understandable people do not want to face such killers (Doctor, Skull Merchant and Legion from the top of my head, since they're the ones I have faced every other game in rotation during my tome challenges completion.)
With this game mode I feel the same I do about 2v8 with how impossible it is to get into a game as killer in a timely fashion, and I understand perfectly why and honestly I can't blame people for not wanting to play survivor here past their tome challenge completion.
Personally I would kill switch killers with info powers solely for the reason of defeating the point of the game mode, or at least tweak such powers (I do not get why Legion still gets killer instinct in this game mode, like it's the most ridiculous in MY opinion.)
Any thoughts and ideas on how to improve the survivor experience for this game mode? It's been released twice and even after the survivor tweaks we got this time, I feel that it's still not appealing enough and still lacks traction for survivor gameplay.
I really don't think the game mode would work. I'm a killer main and even I think lights out is easier as survivor, that's why I played survivor to do the tome. Survivor mains are very difficult to please these days, like you say even with the extra buffs for survivors this time round still isn't good enough and I don't think anything will ever be good enough for a lot of people. Just seems to be the way it is, no matter what buffs survivors get or nerfs killers get survivors are never satisfied lol
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Nerf lightborn and increase slugging, good idea lol
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@Royval said:
Gameplay flaw that’s been in the game for too long also makes playing against her extremely boring way outdated mechanic
Not sure how it's a gameplay flaw, camping is a valid tactic on any killer. Just so happens it doesn't comply with survivor rules of no camping, no tunneling, no slugging, no noed, no doing anything that stops survivors from escaping. There are counters, just have to learn to use them.
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@Sow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801152#Comment_3801152
I agree the Survivor Rift is a bit more chill to do.
Although, I don't know what matches you are playing. Majority of my trials end at 2-3 gens on average. Killers have become so aggressive and run the dirtiest/sweatiest builds. I came across an Oni with this build that made every skill check the tiniest thing. The speed at which skill checks went was fast! He didn't even do hit and run. This man was getting his power in a couple minutes, maybe faster. This man was using the 180 spins and abusing every mechanic he could in the game. Easily someone with many hours in the game but it genuinely was the most toxic build I've ever faced against a Killer. That's saying something cause every other match I face are pretty much perma exposed and gen regression builds lol.
Us Survivors barely had a chance to loop. Yet you are saying Killers are jokes that easily get looped. Majority of the Survivor community are not that good. If you are facing competent Survivors then you have been winning your Killer matches with flying colours and now you are facing a genuine challenge. My advice, adapt cause they did and that's why they are better. You are probably stubbornly playing how you want to play expecting a win or not to get countered. You have to be willing to adapt to the Survivors or else you will be slamming your head into a brick wall.
My recommendation is check out the mmr system and what is constituted as a win. Then create your own 'win-condition' around that. If you don't want to climb the proverbial sweat ladder. Then I believe a 2k is considered a draw and 0-1 lowers mmr, and 3-4k increases mmr. If you are facing tougher opponents but are not enjoying it. Make a meme/fun build that is more of a handicap to you. Then go in and have fun without expecting to win. Over time you'll lower your mmr to a point where you'll have more fun regardless of builds.
POST-EDIT: I was in a similar head space as you on both sides. I still sometimes get frustrated but after checking out what the win conditions are I've found it much easier to enjoy my matches. It's easy to get frustrated when Survivors are looping you constantly and then when you finally get the down… the other blinds you and gets the save; I get it. Although, you either love it or hate it. I've grown to love the flashlight saves as Killer. It gets me going and gets the adrenaline going like, "OH hehe! You want to play like that come here you little…" but I'm laughing and having a good time during these moments. Gotta respect Survivors that care enough to save their teammates. When you play enough Survivor you begin to appreciate the others that put themselves in the line of fire to make sure you get to enjoy the match for as long as possible. Cause I've had teammates who just crouch walk around the map while I die on hook lol. So I respect good survivors because they generally are playing as a team. It's actually really cool to see people take protection hits because they actually care enough to help out another 'random' survivor they don't know.
Just to clarify I have adapted, I get 3/4k very regularly by going anti loopers and tombstone Myers. I counter and tunnel out the loopers asap and usually win (usually followed by angry rants of survivors post game). When I say killers became a joke I refer to the concept in general that survivors don't feel threatened, they feel safe to the point they confidently try to loop all the time. Lights out does bring that feeling of dread and gives killers that threatening edge they have been missing imo. To me, killers should be a threat and something survivors avoid but as time has gone on people just don't have the same level of dread for the killer as they used to.
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Only played for the tome rewards. Tried both sides. Being a killer main I instantly found it pretty bad and boring so I did the survivor tome side only (begrudgingly). Tome rewards done, won't be doing lights out again as either side.
It's a good idea in principle, definitely adds more suspense as survivor, sitting on a gen not knowing where, when, or if the killer is going to sneak up on you. But I found it too repetitive always going Vs Dracula or ghost face and gens just fly if people actually work them.
Shame really because I was looking forward to that horror aspect of dbd back the way it used to be before killers became a joke for survivors to literally run circles around.
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Literally every match someone has flashlight or flash bang and go for saves. Fair enough, part of the game, no complaints here... But it does result in far more slugging. Not really sure what survivors want, they hate being slugged but they bring the very things that promotes slugging. Strange lol
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Personally I burn the rule books and play how I want, I tunnel, camp and slug if the situation calls for it. If I want to use noed I will. if I want to use double iri Myers I will. I expect survivors to play how they want (and they do) and I counter it. just don't cry to me when I play how I want.
So many times I have had complaints "you only won because you tunneled" or "you only won because you used noed" um ye? That's like saying to a survivor you only won because you looped while others did gens. All part of the game, just have to learn to counter the opponents tactics.
The main issue is that people seem to think the onus to make the game fun is on the opponent. Sorry but I don't rely on survivors to make the game fun for me so don't rely on me to make the game fun for you. Somehow I don't think people are going into a match thinking "let's make this match fun for my opponent"
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@Nazzzak said:
Won't the Finisher Mori just encourage slugging for the 4k? It's going to make people not want to be part of the final 2 in a losing match. Slug survivor, find last one, hook them, then automatically mori the person you left slugged.
That's pretty much how the game has been, final 2 usually hide for as long as possible hoping the other dies so the remaining survivor can get hatch. Killer finds one survivor, slugs them then spends about 4min looking for the last one to stop hatch spawning and get 4k. Makes no difference if it's Mori last survivor or hook them
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798255#Comment_3798255
I guess my point is like where do you draw the line. Like yeah I mean if you hide that long that you actually die to the endgame that is absurd, but what if you hide for say, 10 minutes until the killer finds the other survivor and then you get hatch. It seems to me that, rather than being a reportable offense, it should really be on the devs to make some sort of mechanic to prevent everything from being dragged out so much.
I agree there should be a mechanic to prevent it or at least clarify how long a player can hide for without touching a gen. Seems no one knows if 5 min or 10min avoiding gen is too much or 20 to 30min. It's a very vague ruling.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798235#Comment_3798235
Yes I have seen that quote before. There was also a quote from a mod in this forum though saying hiding is never reportable, (don't remember what thread it was in) so I just want clarification. Is there an actual real life example of anyone being banned or even warned for hiding in endgame?
I'm not sure of any documented cases of bans for that exact reason if I'm honest.
Going on the basis for ultimate goal being survive... How exactly does hiding and avoiding gens until server end time means they survive? When server ends the survivors get sacrificed automatically, so hiding and not doing gens isn't accomplishing the goal of survival, it guarantees sacrifice in the longest way possible.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796888#Comment_3796888
Can anyone give an example of a survivor being banned or warned or anything for supposedly "not doing objective" at the end of the game. The whole concept is absurd, the survivors ultimate objective IS TO SURVIVE. Everybody keeps saying hiding when theres only 2 survivors is a "reportable offense" but a mod in this forum at one point said it isn't so....
It's just rich that so many killers want to tunnel, slug, bleed out, and say I'm not responsible for your fun, but then according to them if the survivors don't essentially give themselves up to the killer that's a "reportable offense". Just doing the thing any new survivor would do intuitively is a " reortable offense." Absurd. I find it hard to believe that any survivor player has been or would be banned for trying to survive.
I can provide evidence from the Devs that state it's reportable as it's holding game hostage if gens are not being worked on and survivors are hiding. The objective is the escape not survive until the end of time. Regardless if you agree with it or not, it's BHVR game so they make the rules. Don't like it? Don't play
image-2024-08-14-213152145.pngAnother snippet of evidence that says 2 survivors not doing gens when hatch isn't available is an offence.
cf218859-6bbc-4cca-9bab-2d0eb9d22e57.jpegCurious what source said it isn't reportable when there are clearly 2 instances at least where it's been clarified as a reportable offense.
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You could sit on the edge and wait it out with a key but at some point you will come across killers like me that will slug the 3rd survivor and still hunt you down for the 4k.... Or wait until server end time is up which you get automatically sacrificed anyway.
Soloq is awful, pretty brutal actually. But avoiding gens, not doing your objective will not only fail in the long run but it's also a reportable offence.
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@LadyOwO said:
Can we please get rid of infinite evil tier 3 Myers? As it stands you can't even counter it as the only thing you can do is hide or die.
The counter to Myers is lockers. Use them before t3 hits. Can't stalk when in lockers or on hook. Ye it gives a free hook but Myers is a long game killer so survivors need to think long game. Hand a few hooks if need be while others do gens will stop T3 from activating. I say this because I'm a Myers main and it's crazy how many people think looping is the way to go. They use lockers after I hit T3 to stop being tombstoned but by that point it's too late, they get hooked and either the unhooker or the one being unhooked gets tombstones.
Or like you say, hide... Lose line of sight.
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Have to say, I disagree... Slugging can be useful but to say hooking is a punishment for killers and tunneling doesn't work just isn't true. I have no problem tunneling out first survivor. Been running lethal pursuer, get first hook pretty quick then chase them again when they get unhooked. When 1st survivor is out might tunnel out second survivor or pressure the map depending on the situation. When it's 2 v 1 it's pretty much over.