Prometheus1092
Prometheus1092
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830761#Comment_3830761
Have you seen or played Hungry Lamu?
Lol I never heard of it until now. That creepy llama needs to be in dbd even if it's just lurking in the background of a map somewhere 🤣
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While there are challenges and adept goals people will always do things like cleanse totems. I know if I'm trying to get a particular challenge done I'm doing the challenge regardless of what anyone else is doing. On 1 hand it's good because gens pop so fast, secondary goals are needed. But on the other hand if half the team have the goal to escape for adept and half are hunting totems then the team is split and not on the same page. Even if MMR was fixed, people in high MMR still could have challenges to do. Maybe if there was a specific game mode for doing challenges it might help but I doubt it as it would probably get abused in some way.
Oddly enough I been struggling to do "escape via hatch with a map in hand" challenge. Best way to get that is when all other players die. If players are alive they will wait at the gate until egc runs out so hatch doesn't spawn. In this situation, sorry team but your death is my gain lol
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A llama... Or an emu. Other than that I'd like to see some mythology figures. Minotaur or medusa. (Not strictly animals but there's some animal in there lol)
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
It’s only survivor sided if the survivors are good and know what they’re doing. The vast majority of the player base is casual and therefore not good enough to win often.
Matthew Cote said it best almost a decade ago.
“At the lower levels the game is killer sided and at the higher levels it’s survivor sided.”
All you have to do is look at comp to see that. If the killer isn’t Nurse or Blight they will often be destroyed completely and survivors have an insane amount of restrictions to make it more fair for the killer.
Hasn’t changed since then. It all depends on who is playing lol.
Pretty much this. Swf teams are crazy, they are like a hive mind lol. Taking on 4 person swf is a sweat fest. Killers need to be able to compete against them so they get buffs. Soloq suffers the worst due to having buffed killers but don't have that swf hive mind teamwork that's needed balance it out which makes it seem killer sided.
People say nerf killers and perks but all that does is make it harder for the killers to deal with swf. Personally I think having some sort of communication in soloq would help alot. In game voice chat, sharing perk info with eachother, things that swf have but solo doesn't. This won't put soloq on par with swf due to so many solo players wanting to do challenges and adept achievements which in a way let's the whole team down if the rest are trying to escape. But not much can be done about that
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I know people say suicide on hook ruins the game for everyone else but imo that's part of soloq. It's no different than someone trying to do a challenge like look for glyphs or totems instead of doing gens as they can been seen to "ruin the match" for the survivors that are actually trying to do gens and escape. Try beating a sweaty killer when half your team is doing random stuff like looking for glyphs or dropping every pallet in sight to try get a challenge done lol it's just not going to happen. But you can't stop people from basically abandoning the match to do personal challenges or going next.
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Im curious what the comparison is... Flashlight saves v flash bang saves. Would be interesting stats to compare as flashlight is a hell of a lot easier to avoid than a flash bang. I noticed since flash bangs were kill switched I had very little need for lightborn. The moment flash bang was back it was everywhere.…so back to lightborn.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830169#Comment_3830169
Then nerf SWF. The biggest thing that separates them from solo is their pre-made loadouts, and their gen speed. So nerf. That. I don't care if they do gens 1% slower. Just something, anything.
Impossible to nerf swf enough, swf will always have communication and a level of coordination that soloq will never be able to achieve. If anything soloq should get voice chat or something to at least have the ability to communicate with the team and provide information like swf teams do. I'm all for nerfing swf as I'm a killer main and my matches are very regularly going v sweaty swf teams that knows my location at all times. But I just don't see swf getting nerfed any time soon.
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What people don't realize is swf and solo are leagues apart. If killer is balanced around solo, then swf will steamroll the killer every time and it becomes survivor sided. If killer is balanced around swf then solo seems to the ones that get steamrolled due OP killers that have to be OP to deal with swf teams. At the moment killer is balanced to be able to take on swf, which means solo players get demolished.
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This would be handy, so many games I thought things like my challenge was get chased for certain time and I finish the match to find out my challenge was work on gen cooperatively lol
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@IcallBS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828761#Comment_3828761
That is a odd way to comment with saying don't play or do better? I had a match against a deathslinger who was proxy camping. He was hiding behind a gym wall. When the survivor came for the save, he waited until I was unhooked and as soon as my feet touched the ground bt did nothing when he shot me. He then pulled me close and even tho I was pulling away to break the chain, bt still ran out, and he downed me. So no, not every killer can be countered. When it comes to camping or tunneling. Plus saying don't play because killers play in a pathetic manner is just ridiculous 🙄 Behavior needs to change a lot of bs that goes on in this game yet they keep sitting on their hands
The counter to that is the team blocks the chain, that's happened to me and someone got in the way of the chain and took a hit. The counter to many tactics killers use is teamwork. If there was no counter individually or via the team then I would agree with you but sometimes it takes a team to counter. That's why soloq is so rough, the team work isn't that great.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828731#Comment_3828731
I’d love it if people stop playing survivor for this reason. Then when everyone moves to killer and killer queues are 20-30 minutes long, maybe BHVR will actually do something. The game is a 1v4 asymmetrical. That’s the way it was designed and balanced. By tunneling someone out and making it a 1v3 at the start, it’s making the game into what it wasn’t designed to be, and messing up the balance.
And honestly that’s BHVRs fault for allowing it. Unfortunately most people who game are not going to play games as they’re intended they’re just looking for the quick easy win to get their dopamine hit and feeling of power. Until BHVR decides enough is enough, the only thing players can do is refuse to play the game. I truly hope survivors mains start switching to killer.
The issue is that if there is balance in 1 v 4 soloq then swf teams will over power the killer. If it's balanced around swf then the killer is over powered making it very very difficult for survivors to escape. I don't see a reasonable solution to this, no matter what happens there will always be 1 side that gets the raw deal. For me, when I play survivor I'm soloq and know very well the chances of me escaping is very low. So my "win" criteria isnt escape. It's to get as many BP and last as long as I can before I die. If I escape then it's a bonus. It's rough as soloq. Especially when teammates are doing personal challenges like cleanse 20 totems instead of doing gens but some killers are constantly going against swf so often that they don't know if it's the rare occasion someone is soloq...they play as they normally would v swf team
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829099#Comment_3829099
I don't think the only way a killer can play and not be toxic is to run slowdown. It's possible to run multiple perks to enhance your chase and try to down survivors faster than gens pop. But I also don't think I'm super broken at chase, so I usually run one slowdown perk, one or two information perks, and one or two chase perks.
One thing that I do find problematic is that at very high survivor skill level, it seems some killers can become practically unviable. I don't think I'm top MMR, so my take on this will have varying mileage, but my impression is that at the highest skill levels, high mobility killers (e.g. nurse, blight, etc.) are almost necessary.
Having said that, I've seen one streamer who just pops onto stream and starts doing a 4k streak with nurse literally every time. I've never seen him struggle to dominate a match. And when he doesn't get a 4k, it's because he let the last one live intentionally, or they got hatch.
I'm not sure if my MMR is high or not (I assume high based on the frequency I get 3/4k...how many months does someone have to get 3/4k to get in higher MMR? but obviously I have no idea) I did notice a huge influx of swf and players that clearly know the strong areas and weak areas of the maps and fully kitted out with top perks. Going against them with low mobility killer is a real sweat fest. I usually go PH or Myers. Both low mobility. tunnel with PH and double iri Myers is the way I go and people usually complain regardless if they get taken out fast by PH or mori later in the match by Myers. It takes so long to get T3 that it gives people the opportunity to play the game but they still say toxic killer lol.
I wish I was going against easy going players but unfortunately that's rare and even rarer to not have any negative remarks post match about how I play the game what perks I'm using (noed being almost guaranteed to get people worked up). They get to play the whole match then complain they lost at the end due to a perk 🤷♂️ would they rather be tunneled out asap? That's my experience anyway, others might have a different experience playing the game
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828848#Comment_3828848
Honestly, it's not just the game, it's the player who chooses to do these things. The only times when it's alright to use 'strategies' that almost exclusively aren't fun for other people playing the game are in the realm of professional sports (or esports).
You came to this thread, read OP's post, and said that getting tunneled is a skill issue in spite of the fact that most of the community considers tunneling bm at best, and in spite of the fact that OP is clearly having an awful time. The truth is that playing killer is incredibly easy until you push yourself up beyond an MMR where you can reasonably win matches.
I don't tunnel, camp, or slug for 4k unless a squad has chosen to ignore their goals and try to harass me. Nevertheless, I face survivors much more talented than I am as survivor. I expect that at the end of the first chase, a gen or two is about to pop, but I run a little slowdown and can usually pull a 3k or 4k without much effort. At equilibrium, I do occasionally get a 2k or less, but that's alright.
If the only way someone playing killer can win matches is by tunneling, that person probably has a skill issue.
But you seem to be saying that the only way a killer can play and not be considered toxic is to run slow down perks and spread hooks. Without slowdowns the gens fly. I'm already forced to run lightborn with the constant flash bangs and flashlights. It removes any variety of perks and playstyles. Regardless of how much or little skill is required to tunnel it does take some skill to counter it that's why I say it's a skill issue.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828870#Comment_3828870
Experiences clearly vary - but neither I nor (killer) streamers I watch see nearly as much fl/fb as there's slugging for the mori. It's a far cry from a must. - Besides. The killer has a way to deal with it basekit: not pick them up without thorough checking. The absolutely only way for a survivor to deal with being slugged as the second-to-last is to equip a perk that allows them to pick themselves up.
So the counter to flashbangs is slug as they can't hook... But people don't like slugging so they want a counter to it. Means killers can't hook or slug. What's a killer to do? Basekit counter to slugging is the team, they heal you. If you want to go solo and counter it yourself then yes a perk should be used but it's a team game so the team is the basekit counter. It doesn't help the last survivor but that's because if the last survivor is slugged then they are already pretty much dead
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828819#Comment_3828819
That's asking people to reserve one perk slot at all times aka making a perk obligatory to run. - It's also the exact reason why BT is basekit. No perk should be obligatory to run to deal with a base game mechanic. In case of bt that was unhooking. In case of finisher moris that's slugging the next-to-last.
Pretty much like killers have to run lightborn all the time. It hasn't been that bad since flashbangs was killswitched but since they have been activated again lightborn is a must for a lot of killers because it can be nearly impossible to hook people with so many flash bangs and flashlights.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
This issue has gotten 10x worse this past patch, because for some reason the devs think that killers need moris basekit. Now every match is just killers slugging people out instead of hooking so they can get the mori.
There needs to be a base mechanic to address this. Funnily enough, they were going to do this alongside the original basekit mori, but forum killers complained and complained and so the devs had to roll it back. Typical.
Come on, devs.
Slugging is a result of survivors own making. You want gens done faster and nerf regress perks? Result is killer doesn't have time to pick up, walk to hook and repeat so they slug. You want your flashlights, flashbangs, sabo, pallet saves or anything else that prevents a killer from picking up a survivor after they spent ages trying to down them? Result is killer will stop going for pick up and slug. You want the free hatch escape as last survivor even tho the team failed to do the gens and open the gate? Result is the last 2 players get slugged.
Some killers slug for toxic purposes but most killers slug out of necessity or out of being the optimal strategy. I'm not saying it's fun to be slugged but that's the road it gone and will continue to go unless the reasons why slugging happens are dealt with. The mori system may contribute to slugging but it's by no means the main cause.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828761#Comment_3828761
I wrote some big long message, but I don't want you to think I'm being hostile, and I'm sleepy, so I'm writing a shorter one :D
I think that even in this sort of game, we need to remember that other people want to participate and have fun. That's the ultimate goal of the game for everyone, to enjoy it!
So, while you're right that tunneling will get someone eliminated, it still does it in a way that typically makes the experience very negative for the person on the receiving end. Also, something something gens popping, 1k is alright :D
It may be negative for the player eliminated first but that's game lol. 1 in 4 chance of being the unlucky tunnel victim. On the bright side at least they get to go next sooner than the rest of the team. I'm all for making the game fun for all but what makes 1 happy can make another frustrated. I think thats the way it's going to be unless they rework the whole game at its core. Hate the game not the player 😁
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828731#Comment_3828731
Are you saying that making it so a person can barely participate in a game is not toxic?
I think we need to keep in mind that people want to actually participate in the game, and tunneling prevents that. Why would someone want to play as survivor at all if someone got tunneled out in every match, giving the killer a 1v3?
I'm saying that's the point to the game, eliminate the survivor...take them out of the match. If the survivors don't like that then simply don't play or learn to stay in the match longer. By definition tunneling is getting 1 survivor out, others are able remain in the match for a while longer until they are eliminated. Can't play an elimination game and complain when your 1st one out. Like I said gens fly so fast it means killers have to eliminate fast. I rarely tunneled originally but the moment gens started popping super quick even with regress perks while I was spreading hooks I turned to tunneling.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828736#Comment_3828736
But if people want to play as sweaty as possible, then they should not choose the event queue.
The whole point of choosing the event queue is to interact with the event. Sweating during an event just makes the game miserable for everyone involved.
It is possible to sweat while doing the event... Going into the void, hitting pumpkins. There are challenges to complete that should be challenging anyway, hence why they are called challenges
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828736#Comment_3828736
I find this reasoning as an excuse. If a group of survivors BM you after you were nice, its it just assumed ALL survivors will do this?
What a weak and fragile mentality. Can't be good for human relations lol. Don't let jerks dictate how you play, or turn you into a jerk yourself. We all know it doesn't feel good to be a jerk, so the response is to become the problem too? Come on…
Not just a small group, a huge group. 3/4 of my matches win or lose survivors are toxic. So my answer is play how I want, if I want to win I will tunnel, camp, slug or whatever I need to. Not all survivors deserve it I know but if majority do (which from my many years of playing and my personal experience they do) then sorry about the minority that are nice but... no mercy 😁
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@Laendra said:
Why are the event killers so sweaty? It's supposed to be a fun event, but a very large majority of them play like it is a regular match and their lives depend on getting a 4k, rather than everyone having fun. You can still get a 4k and make the match fun. You don't have to slug the 3rd to get the 4th. Have better faith in your skills to hunt and find that last survivor. So what if they get the hatch? If they do, then they were better at the hatch game than you were. The numbers of killers with 2-3 location perks in this event is just ridiculous, or the 4 hex perks with pentimento (most of you can't even use that perk effectively mind you, or load it up with devour hope).
I play survivor about 50% of the time. I have seen this in nearly 95+% of my matches. When I go play killer, and have survivors using windows clients, I always get comments on how fun the game was and profusely thanking me for not being a sweaty killer during the event.
Bottom line, just because you can be a jerk, doesn't mean you have to be. You can still be a 4k killer, but you don't have to be a jerk about it.
I been playing survivor more during the event, seen a few killers help with BP and challenges. I thought ye I'll do that, why not? I went killer, let all survivors win and farm BP... I got BM post match. "Bad killer" "l2p" "noob"
This is probably why killers are thinking why bother being nice, going to get BM regardless so at least give them a reason to give BM by getting the 4k.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828684#Comment_3828684
The answer to bm and toxic playstyles isn't "get better."
Beyond that, if a killer wants you out of the match bad enough, they're taking you out unless you're incredible at looping. There is a question of whether they feel like getting just a 1k if you're very good at looping, but that doesn't stop the problem if the killer just feels like it.
And if you're a weak enough link on a team, there are killers who feel it's alright to make the match awful for you by selecting you for elimination immediately. Then once your match has been ruined, the whole remaining team has a 3v1 because the killer thought it was alright to do that.
The real solutions to this are implementation of anti-tunnel mechanics, incentives for not tunneling, and changing the community culture.
That is the game survivors choose to play. If they want to see match through to the end they should play killer. If they don't mind the elimination style gameplay of survivor then play survivor. But I don't think it's fair to say a killer tunneling (eliminating a player faster than some would like) is toxic or that the killer feels it's alright to make the match awful by doing his job... Getting kills. Maybe the solution is make gens take considerably longer to complete and give survivors a respawn so they are never removed from the match but that would result in a whole different type of game thats not dbd.
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Its no different to going against a human player really. It astounds me that so many survivors often play similar to a bot with no sense of teamwork just primary goto is loop.
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I do what I can to get the win, if that's slugging, camping, tunneling at 5 gen so be it. Reason being.... 1. Gens fly so fast its almost a necessity v some swf teams. 2. After years of repeatedly being BM by survivors, enough is enough. When I do let survivors win or I take it easy I get "ez" "bad killer" "l2p" at the end. And 3, I refuse to let others dictate to me how I should play the game as if other players fun is my responsibility. I play for my own enjoyment, my own fun. I'm not going to play in a way I don't want to to satisfy others fun at the expense of my own so the comment "I'm not is responsible for your fun" is based. I mean do they care that I'm not having fun going in circles around a pallet for ages? No. Do they care if I'm not having fun going the through a gauntlet of head on traps and flashbangs? No. It's part of the game which is fair enough, they break no rules so they are just having their fun. I do draw the line at post match salty attitude, it's a very very frequent thing and it happens when I win or lose. So when I do play sweaty and get 4k in a so called toxic play style and survivors spout abuse post match then I think "well chances are they would be toxic post match regardless of what happened, so I'm glad I gave them a reason to salty at least"
I don't do toxic things like intentionally leave everyone bleed out where there is no need, if all are slugged I will go round and hook them 1 by 1 if I can find them. I don't BM post match, or do the back and fore motion when they are slugged or anything like that.
What I have learnt through the years of playing games is people play in various ways and not everyone will like it (I don't like being looped or looping whole match for example, I find it boring and unfun) but I'm sure some killers and survivors enjoy it. People should play how they want as long as it's within the rules of the game, don't hate the player hate the game in that regard.
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Who needs skill when there's camping, tunneling and slugging? Lol
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826751#Comment_3826751
No, because the rules I posted are the rules from this forum. Dev comments are not rules, and what I said isn't not engaging in normal gameplay, in fact it's the only viable normal gameplay left to survivors.
I think that's exactly where your going wrong and why you fail to understand literally anyone says regardless of any proof given to you... It's insane to think that Devs comments are merely just comments. They are not random people making up their own rules, they are part of the development team for the game… they know the rules and in no way would they make up a rule saying something is bannable when it's not. It's like a random person with no knowledge of law trying to tell a judge "your wrong, that's not law that's your opinion"
As previously mentioned the rules you follow like a bible (the official rules) only says griefing which includes holding the game hostage... That is a vague term which does need expanding and clarifying on what exactly holding the game hostage is. That is what the devs have done. They explained more on what the griefing rule is. If someone is confused about something the official rules say how else would they get clarification? The answer is ask the dev team... They know.
Until you understand the rules, who has authority on explaining the rules and not claiming that's someones opinion even when it comes from a member of the development team from the game then you will never accept anything that gets said regardless of who's saying it.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430916/killers-its-time
I agree. Please put it on. Never let it go. Killers with only 3 perks is always welcome :)
With camping, hard tunneling, slugging and noed...who needs 4 perks? 😁
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826673#Comment_3826673
Nice job only reading half a post, but that example of 30 minutes is highly ambiguous and subjective, but also gave a specific circumstance of where it'd be an issue. It once again is showing you cant differentiate guidelines to rules or see the difference between circumstances in individual games. As a killer you have no idea what the perspective of a survivor is. You cant tell if they're just waiting for you to leave or not. If you're never gone they can never try. As was said earlier, this is a game of hide and seek, survivors hide and you seek. Just because you cant fulfill your portion doesn't mean survivors should be required to forsake theirs. All your oh the killer still gets 4k point proves is that the killer won the endurance battle, not that the survivors were not still trying to win. It's a stalemate and it's not their job to break it to their disadvantage. It's not risking anything. Do you risk walking down the street. There's no shame in risking a ban for playing the game strategically within the games rules.
I spent 2 years as survivor main before I was killer main and I still play survivor occasionally so I do know the perspective of survivor pretty well. You seem to throw around the terms ambiguous and subjective to disregard almost anything that goes against your argument but the same could be said in reverse. For example, "this is a game of hide and seek" is very ambiguous and subjective. Yet you base your whole argument on this vague general description of a game. It makes no sense that survivors hide and killers seek because survivors have gens to do, not hide. So your whole basis of hide and seek argument is flawed as it completely ignores the core aspect of gens. If survivors won via hiding yes I would agree with you but the fact that survivors get automatically sacrificed if they hide too long without escaping is clear as day that simply hiding is not the goal of the survivor. That's how the game has been from day 1. Like I said you can hide as long as you like but I don't understand to what end as I have already explained if you hide too long the killer will win.
Also in hiding you risk your other teammate from ratting you out which happens a lot in 2 v 1 situations. Reason being 1 survivor wants the match to end but the killer is keeping both alive until they are both found and downed. So they lead the killer to the hiding survivor to get the match over with. Now aiding the killer is definitely against the rules but aiding the killer or "working with the opposite team" as it is said in the rules is such an ambiguous description and how will you prove that the survivor aided the killer in finding you if you were hiding and not just looking to be healed or running away from the killer? If you can't see how your own argument can be used against you then there truly is not hope lol.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826662#Comment_3826662
It is ambiguous, there's no set time limit for how long is too long to hide from gens or just trying to find chest/totems and not all players have easy access to reading individual hidden posts on a forum. If it's not on the official rules list it's upto the individual dev's opinion on how it'll be handled. That's not a debate, but a fact. If ruin is active there's no way to prove they are not going to the gens and hiding immediately or just focusing and trying to find all totems and chests. If you as a killer 3 gen them, it's reasonable to hide until it's safe. If it's never safe, then that's not them not doing objectives, but actively stuck in a stalemate. Until the gens are clear they cant attempt them. As a two man they'd be massively slower if they still wanna try winning. It holding the game hostage is just your killer baiting opinion since you're just having trouble finding the final two and no dev would ever just ban for that. So yes, your whole argument is subjective and opinionated.
Should a survivor be forced to do a gen with a killer actively standing over it? Good luck explaining that one. That's the issue with the final two. It's not that they're not doing gens, but the game's stuck in a stalemate where its impossible for them to act in a reasonable and tactical manner. You're just ragebaiting because you think it's the survivors responsibility to have to put themselves into the unfavorable position. Maybe if the killer stopped patroling gens and looked in weird spots they might start doing gens again. You cant prove they are holding the game hostage because they are not. They're simply acting in the only manner left for them to possibly win. Just because you dont like that their only strat that's left is tedious is the survivors fault.
Lol it's not my opinion it's come from the Devs that it's holding the game hostage. Although there is no exact time frame it does specifically say "half an hour" which is far more detail than the standard base line set of rules you have shown. It's astounding that you basically say a Devs explanation of a rule is equal to your own lol. It's unreasonable to expect a huge book explaining every little aspect in very fine detail to people. So they post a rough guide on what the rules are then if need be they clarify in more detail. I have never come across game where it gives such detailed descriptions of an offense in the basic rules like you seem to expect. Regardless of what your opinion is, your method of hiding doesn't accomplish anything because the killer can still get 4k by waiting until server end time... And I see nowhere that says that is against the rules and it still gives killer the 4k. so if you want to hide for the whole time have at it risk getting reported because it really doesn't solve anything.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826660#Comment_3826660
That was just one example not the rule, you're acting like that's gonna be the case every time. That's just one way to get the 4k at the end, not the only way. It is a copout to just say heal up if injured. The killer is still actively hunting you down and wont always be possible.
There are 2 exits, if all survivors are at the same exit it's still a miss play on the survivors part that could potentially result in 4k which could be avoided if they played more tactical.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826627#Comment_3826627
Since you cant tell the difference between rules and just subjective opinions of which the dev's are not immune to, ill post the rules and show what they actually are.
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATIONS ABUSE
- Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIRED / Customer Support ticket OPTIONAL
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M0P3LTICF0D1/microsoftteams-image-281-29.png
GRIEFING: INTENTIONAL GAMEPLAY ABUSE
- Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage or grief teammates
- Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience
- Holding the game hostage
In-game report REQUIRED / Customer Support ticket OPTIONAL
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M0P3LTICF0D1/microsoftteams-image-281-29.png
EXPLOITS: ABUSING BUGS OR ERRORS IN DESIGN TO GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE
- Advertising exploits
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OTHER HACKS
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Some dev's may see not doing gen's as holding the game hostage and they could potentially have the right to ban. But its subjective to the dev in question and will vary massively on the circumstances. What you are saying is not a rule, but a guideline and you should learn the difference.
Frankly though your argument of just do better next time is rather lacking though. Maybe we should just massively buff survivors to unfair levels and see how well killers like it. But doing so is not beneficial or fair gameplay and that's the underlying issue. The fact that you cant see that that's the case for survivors right now show's you're taking this from a shallow perspective. If the game is in all practicality over, yet a match could be dragged on for upwards to an hour with 1 survivor possibly still having the chance to escape. Then it show's a massive flaw in the current state of the game. I didn't suggest just letting the last two to escape and since when does closing the hatch guarantee a kill. It allow's you with one alternative to escape which ive done multiple times as the last survivor from gate after hatch is closed. If the killer gets hatch first he's rewarded with having an even larger advantage of stopping them at the gate. In no way has the ability to escape been denied in all practical sense's like it is now in the current state. If a killer can dominate reward them for it. But complete denial isn't an acceptable reward no matter what point of the game you're in.
You say the rule explanation of the evidence I posted (the Devs post) is ambiguous... Yet it gives more detailed description of the particular issue we are talking about than the actual rules you have shown. 2 survivors hiding not doing gens is considered holding the game hostage as it doesn't progress the match. The rules you have shown simply says holding the game hostage is griefing... That alone is open to interpretation so the dev clarified it by giving a more detailed explanation of what holding the game hostage actually entails.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826629#Comment_3826629
It's easier than you think, get one hook at the end and you can often lure them all in. There are dozens of video's of killers doing exactly that with more then a few perk's besides noed to further buff a killers endgame potential. Just heal before rushing the gate is just a copout to the point above. The killer's gonna do the best he can to stop that and isn't always possible.
Ye that does sound like survivors who are at the gate want the 4 escape… if they want to risk it all to get everyone out that's up to them but they do have the opportunity to win. It's not a copout to play smart and heal up if everyone is injured. These are survivor errors it's not handing the killer a free win at the end via game mechanic. Even if the killer gets 1 sacrifice and the rest of the team gets out that's still a loss for the killer.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826601#Comment_3826601
It's the killers who have chance after chance…. Survivors can completely dominate not getting hooked even once, but then get 4k'd at the gate. Survivors should at least still have the curtesy of being allowed the same chance. Otherwise it fails to be a game and instead just turns into an ego boosting simulator for killers.
I honestly don't know how 4 survivors are getting killed at the gate lol if they are healed, that's 8 hits to down them all. If they are not healed then maybe that's the issue... Should heal before rushing to the gate. Unless it's noed...in that case sure have the hatch as a perk like the killer has to for noed.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826169#Comment_3826169
If you opinion was simply abide by the rules of the devs, then you wouldn't have made the suggestion about crows. Your opinion was to reinforce the abilities of the killer to increase their chance of a 4k. My opinion is to increase the balance of the game so it's not just a snowball fest for the killers. As I said before, no matter how much survivors snowball a killer can make a comeback. The same should be true for survivors. How are you gonna say the last two are avoiding gens. By definition they have to slow down if they do wanna try winning. There's no breaking devs rules in that scenario. Ive read the rules multiple times and avoiding gens isn't one. Your posts from devs are ambiguous and change with each dev. If your rules are not even clear then it's their responsibility to clarify them officially. Not to hide them in a random post. Actual cheating and this are not the same thing. Your comparison is like using a hammer vs a flyswatter to kill a fly and simply an incomparable statement. A game should always have the chance to escape regardless of the stage the game is in. Since you think that shouldn't be the case, the game might as well just automatically kill the last two if three gens are still up since you are so worried about saving time and guaranteeing that killer 4k. There's nothing deserved about an unbalanced mechanic.
I follow the rules I read, the Devs have clearly stated on multiple occasions avoiding gens is not doing the objective unless hatch is available. Until it spawns it's not available. Otherwise all survivors could hide the the whole match avoid gens waiting to be last one remaining to get the hatch which is ridiculous. The words clearly state avoiding gens for half hour is reportable as it's no different than body blocking. If you have a dispute with this then you should take it up with the Devs. I have yet to see anything saying it's not reportable. I don't care much about the 2 v 1 situation as it is really because I can wait the 1 hour server time and keep both survivors alive so they get sacrificed anyway so avoiding gens just prolongs the inevitable 4k. but any solution that results in survivors getting another chance at a game they lost will result in killers going further to prevent it.
You say the game should always have an escape no matter what stage... Ok so they fail to do gens and acknowledged it's impossible to escape, they get offered a hatch instead. If the hatch gets closed so it's impossible to escape, should they have another way out? My point is at what point is it enough? When should survivors acknowledge the match is a lose and how many chances should they get? They already have ample chance to do gens from the start, I don't see the killer getting free noed when all gens are done and all survivors are remaining. Even when freed from the hook they still get a shield and speed boost to fly past to the exit gates. Bottom line is survivors have their chance to do gens and escape, if they fail they fail, better luck next match.
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@Rudjohns said:
Why does it have to be killer sided? Basekit unbreakable can solve this
Simple answer, if the survivors have been steamrolled where they can't do gens and can't open the exit then they have clearly been out matches and lost. Why does it have to be survivor sided? Another chance after they already lost? Why stop there? Give them a 3rd chance if they fail at getting to the hatch...chance after chance fail after fail lol
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825937#Comment_3825937
So your opinion is make the game harder for survivors when they are already at a massive disadvantage? Killers sure will do anything they can to justify an ez 4k. It's already too ez for the majority of all dbd games played. Only SWF's can routinely outplay killers, but even top of the line games killers still average about two killer per game. The dynamics are busted right now and what you suggested isn't a solution. A far better option would be if no gen progress is made after a certain amount of time the hatch just opens and whoever finds it get it. A default no way out once closed would also be fine or a default noed with no totem if the hatch is activated in that way. But just giving a killer a straight buff with no counter play isnt sensible in the slightest.
My opinion is simply abide by the Devs rules... If people don't like the rules they have the choice to not play the game. But disregarding the rules because someone doesn't agree with them is what leads to cheaters and hackers. As the Devs have stated it's against the rules to avoid gens, that's the way it is and should be followed like it or not. Your way is hand the survivors another chance at winning a match they lost while denying the killer the 4k they have rightfully won through the progress of the match. It would also encourage slugging all 4 from the start of the match to prevent the hatch being an option. Slugged survivors are far less likely to be able to crawl to the hatch. If the hatch is a viable option at the end of the match it will result in killers doing what they can to prevent it
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@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825923#Comment_3825923
thanks.
I think that hiding from the killer while waiting for the other to be found is therefore not included in it.
I've already seen players try to keep the game hostage, and it wasn't the same as hoping that the other would be found but hard to proveHiding for a period of time is fine, can hope the other survivor gets caught and wait out the hook timer or slug timer then go for hatch. But if both survivors are hiding for a prolonged period (exact timeframe isn't clear) that's where the issue is as it can and does result in the game being prolonged to server end time when both survivors get automatically sacrificed. Personally I think after the acceptable timeframe of hiding (whatever that is) both survivors should get crows or something so the killer can find 1, down them and either hook them or slug them then the countdown to find last survivor begins. It would save a lot of time in a match that should have been over way sooner and would prevent the rule breaking from even taking place.
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cf218859-6bbc-4cca-9bab-2d0eb9d22e57.jpeg image-2024-08-14-213152145.png@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825911#Comment_3825911
First : As i can read its an hide and seek game.
https://deadbydaylight.com/game/
2nd : on the same site i can see a tutoriel that say " you will chase down, capture , and hook survivors " not slugs them.
3rd : on the in game rulebook its say killer objectif is to hook . Hook not to slug them.
4th : i just did the tutoriel to be sure, but the game say i need to hide when killer is near.
could you pls give me source about dev on the 2V1 ?
I didn't find anything but I'm interested, if its true , and i dont think you lie, i would read the interviewThese are the 2 I have saved but there has been others from the Devs posting regarding avoiding gens
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@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825902#Comment_3825902
Yes you are part of the problem.
When its a win 100% and ppl just go next : killer cry
When its a win and survivor, try to hide and take hatch( AS THE GAME SUGEST TO DO ) : killer cry
You know dont need the 4K for a win, 3K is a win and even the hatch is a draw for the survivor not a win.
So , no we dont need to do something for last 2 survivor.
If they are afk they have craw otherwise just try to find them .Killers don't cry if survivors go next, I have only heard of survivors cry about that because they let the rest of the team down. Personally I don't care if survivors wants to go next, makes no difference to me.
The game suggests taking the hatch when the hatch is available. If it's not available then the objective is do the gens. The fact is even the Devs say avoiding gens is reportable, even in 2 v 1 situations. If your willing to accept it's ok to break the rules because you disagree with the rules set out by BHVR then you can't complain when others also break the rules when they disagree with them. Rules like body blocking or flat out cheating
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@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825740#Comment_3825740
So you are part of the problem.
As a survivor don't mind being killed, but being slug is boring.If killer just hooks me when the chase end, I could do gen and try, but as long as I know the killer is gonna slug me for 4K I stay hidden.
You say I'm part of the problem but when the killer has clearly won the match why should they essentially let the survivor get the hatch preventing a 4k? The killer won. Sounds like the survivor hiding to get a win when they couldn't do their objective is the problem not the killer doing his objective. You can stay hidden but I can say if that happens with me then I'm more than happy to keep both of you alive and bring it to 1 hour server end time. I'm sure you would find that more boring
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825740#Comment_3825740
Refusing to do gens? At that point gens are a decoration. Its impossible to get them done and doing them means getting killed. The match isnt against the killer anymore, but the other survivor on who tries to get hatch. Its simply a horrible design for a game that pushes to try and survive. The killer isnt your only enemy in a two man with multiple gens, and unless the dev's address that issue, survivors are not gonna quit doing that.
I agree to an extent but I would say survivors worst enemy is their own team not just in 2 v 1 especially with the suicide on hooks and the hiding the whole match leaving people die on 1st hook. But it's the game we choose to play, and contrary to belief it's not survivor rule book that makes the rules, its BHVR. And while they say avoiding gens is against the rules that's the way it is.
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I would change the name to The Banshee. As in the screaming banshee from Irish folklore.
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@Vellioh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824167#Comment_3824167
It is when the Killer is so hell bent on getting a 4k that they refuse to let the game progress to the end game state. When there are two survivors remaining and multiple gens remaining there is a literal zero possibility that the other survivor will be able to make up the difference before the downed survivor bleeds out. The game is over. The downed survivor cannot speed up bleeding out. The game is effectively being held hostage until the downed survivor bleeds out or the other survivor gives up and lets the killer kill them.
Sure its not as dramatic as cheaters literally holding lobbies hostage for an hour but that is another issue entirely. That's an issue with anti-cheat and the devs not considering that allowing people to make an infinite amount of accounts with each getting free copies of the game was in no way a good idea.
No it's not, the Devs have already confirmed it many times. Slugging has a timer no different to hook timer, that timer is progressing the match even if it's not as fast as you would like. I'm my experience when in 2 v 1 situation it is the survivors that actually hold the game hostage by refusing to do gens for over 30min and simply hiding waiting for the other to get caught first so they can get the hatch. That does not progress the match and is confirmed to by the Devs as holding the game hostage.
As you have already said at that point the match is over, killer won so maybe if the remaining survivor came out of hiding the killer wouldnt need to slug the 3rd to allow time to find the 4th. Therefore if the game is held hostage don't blame the killer for slugging, blame the last survivor that refuses to do gens, refuses to heal you and refuses to progress the match.
when in 2 v 1 situations that's exactly what I do, slug the 3rd to give time to find the 4th. When I find and down the 4th I hook them and go back to hook the slug. It gives me 4min to find the last remaining player, faster I find them, faster the game ends.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825446#Comment_3825446
I never said that mmr doesnt excist, dont put any words into my mouth to excuse yourself. If youre regularly getting 4ks its obviously not that good of an mmr or youre completely sweating yourself and have no right to judge anyone else. Also saying youre only getting against sweaty swf is a lie in itself, cause most games arent swf.
You said it has nothing to do with MMR for the reason being that you can't see what it is. How does that make sense? If it was because your arguing it doesn't exist your point might have more validity but the fact you acknowledge it does exist and yet has nothing to do with type of players I would be matched with makes no sense. I think by your comment of "most games aren't swf" shows your not in the same MMR as me. Trust me, get high enough and you will see far far more swf because soloq is so awful to play it's very difficult to get MMR up. Out of curiosity how long does one have to get 3/4k on a regular basis to be high MMR? It's been a couple of years now.
I do sweat with killer role because of the players im up against lol I'm sure many will agree past a certain MMR it is a sweat fest but that's not the issue, the issue is the abuse spouting post match. Which again would make sense because I don't play survivor much so I'm obviously lower MMR and not being matched with sweaty killers... Maybe if I was higher in survivor rank I would come across more killers hurly abuse post match but as it stands my experience is killer role... Sure bet to get some sort of negative comment post match, not always but a high chance it will happen. Survivor role, way more easy going with killers simply saying "GG" although even then my own teammates sometimes say "bad killer" or something like that.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825405#Comment_3825405
Math isnt your strenght, right? And it has abolutely nothing to do with MMR, cause you cant even make out what MMR you have nor anyone you play against. Also you do not belong to the top 1%, thats easy to tell.
Looks like your math isn't that great lol just because MMR is hidden doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If I'm getting 3/4k regularly on a nightly basis it would explain why I'm going against sweaty swf very often and would explain the bitterness when these swf groups lose because they are so used to winning. You say my maths isn't great but yet you fail to provide anything that says otherwise.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825058#Comment_3825058
Must be a regional issue. Never ever have seen anyone making such false claims.
My guess would be more MMR based than regional. There has been many people claiming the same thing as me from various regions (high rates of abuse post match from survivors regardless of win or lose) some of which have actually posted on these forums about their personal experience which isn't all that different to mine and they scratch it up to the fact there are 4 survivors and 1 killer so statistically more likely to get a toxic player. Which sort of makes sense. Just today I played 4 matches as a killer... All 4 matches there was at least 1 survivor that couldn't resist but say "get good" or "touch grass" even tho I got 4k. I could play 4 matches as survivor to compare how many of them the killer has something negative to say post match.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824778#Comment_3824778
Not really. Someone had a bunch of jerks back to back and has had enough, so they now direct their rage at the side that harassed them.
It's definitely not a good way to play the game (an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind), especially since you mostly hit the wrong people. But it's an emotional response to something that unfortunately happens in every online game.
@Prometheus1092, I hope you'll get some better matches soon but please try not to be a jerk towards people that just play the game. They might end up just like you, trying to get revenge, which breeds more salty killers and salty survivors.
I been playing for years and it's always been the same (for me anyway). If roughly 8/10 of my matches are like that (get matched with toxic players) then I'm not sure how I would mostly hitting the wrong people. Odds are I would be hitting the right people more often than hitting the wrong ones.
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@MaddieMage said:
Where are your stats to show the majority of survivors are like this? Because I play meme killer friendly killer all the time and I’ve gotten maybe 1 out of 15 matches of survivors behaving this way. Sometimes survivors will just pop gens and leave because they don’t understand I’m memeing or they just don’t trust it. But I don’t get the toxic behavior when I play.
Point being.. my anecdotal experience is not proof of survivors statistically being one way or another the same as yours isn’t. So maybe post some stats if you’re gonna claim “majority of survivors are toxic” just because you’re upset at a few bad encounters you personally had.
My stats are my own experience coupled with numerous posts from others that experience the same thing. Your stats might differ to mine as your experience seems different. But from my experience that spans years playing DBD as both survivor and killer, I can honestly say statistically I'm way more likely to come across toxic survivors than a toxic killer.
Most of the time the killer slugs or tunnels and I think 🤷♂️ fair enough, not great but it's not toxic by any means then they say GG and move on. Survivors are usually a whole other story. Even when I'm a survivor, people on my team spout out abuse at the killer for any number of reasons.
I'm just saying this is my experience and I know I'm not the only one to have this experience so for the people that do experience it like I have, it's no wonder survivors have a bad rep.
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@Roaroftime said:
Ok deal if something is done about killers taking the game hostage slugging all 4 survs till they bleed out also
Killers slugging isn't taking the game hostage... Huge difference between 4min bleed out and 1 hour server end time
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@Doxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823936#Comment_3823936
So you're b$-+ hurt because you ran into one swf troll team? Like I've said so many times... Killer mains are a sensitive group that just won't be happy till they can roll every team in dbd
From my experience it's like every single match... Survivors attitude is horrendous regardless of if they win or lose. So ye, tunnel em out and give them something to have a bad attitude about if they will be toxic anyway