Prometheus1092
Prometheus1092
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Personally I have found that the tactics I use as killer started off as a direct result of survivor tactics/behaviour.
Constant gen rushing pretty much taught me to tunnel 1 out asap.
Constant flashlight and pallet saves taught me to slug
The amount of survivors that hover near a hooked survivor taught me to proxi camp.
Obviously there's more to it than that but in short, I wouldn't do these tactics if they didn't counter survivor tactics.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793326#Comment_3793326
They're talking more if the killer refuses to hook/down when given chances and only tries to extend the game. There's a screenshot somewhere of this, I'll see if I can find it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PNDAS3NLDEZ5/forum-screenshot-3-gen.jpg
Edit: I found the screenshot like a second later. It's a lot harder to do nowadays with the gen kick limit and all but it's still a thing.
Im reading that as it only applies to that method with madness T3 as it has a direct effect on the survivors ability to do gens. That would be holding game hostage as no one can do gens even if they tried and no one can be killed. But if the killer is patroling gens not going for chases and only attacks when they go on gens, that's not reportable because the survivors have to option to do gens and the killer would attack. Refusing to down someone that is capable of doing gens still not taking the game hostage, bit unnecessary but not reportable.
It's only taking the game hostage if 1 side refuses to do their objective while preventing the other side from doing theirs such as killers blocking someone in the corner preventing them from doing gens and refusing to kill them. Or when survivors refuse to do gens in 2 v 1 situations while hiding preventing the killer from accomplishing their objective.
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@Tyler3 said:
I would say it's not bannable, because both parties had the opportunity to finish the game and neither did. Essentially, they were just holding themselves hostage.
An example of a bannable offense would be if the killer body blocked a survivor into a corner and refused to budge (how that would even happen though I don't know).
Another scenario that could be considered holding the game hostage is if there's a 3 gen that's very close together and the killer continuously patrols them, ignores chases and only hits survivors repairing, making it nearly impossible for them to escape.
Still, there's an option to report people for harassment, so what you consider harassment is up to you I guess.
A killer patroling 3 gens ignoring chase isn't holding game hostage. If survivors refuse to do gens regardless of the likelihood they will be hit or hooked, it's the survivors that are holding the game hostage by not doing their objective.
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They have every right to add a penalty for DC...it's their game lol no one is forcing you to play it. Also without the DC penalty think how many games would end in the first couple min because the match isn't going well for a particular player.
Look at it like each match you load into is a contract, you agree to the terms before going into the match... Contract is done when the match ends. If you want out of the contract early, sure but there is a small penalty fee lol. Don't like the contract? Don't sign it, don't play the match.
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Tunneling, camping and slugging out of control? You listed 3 different strats there...I think 3 different strats being used is fine. It's not like it's just 1 tactic being used over and over. 3 shows some variety imo
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My games still consist of people trying to loop (failing usually). If people are looping less then that's a good sign imo. Spent a long time going anti loop killers and making sure the scooby doo loops are ineffective in the hope that people will loop less. I dunno about others but I find looping and being looped very boring. Can but hope people learn new tactics instead of the 1 trick ponies that think looping is all a survivor can do.
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Anyone with boil over or if there is flashlight saves, pallet saves, flash bangs, hook sabotage, body blocking.…they get slugged.
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@P0MNI said:
If there are 3+ generators left, what am I supposed to do as a survivor realistically?
There’s no scenario where we get 3 generators. Killers play absurdly petty for the 4K too which doesn’t help. If you find someone at 1 gen 2 survivors, you hit them and then go back to the 3 gen because they’re injured.I’d show myself to get out of the game faster but then the killer slugs me and I have to sit on the ground for 4 minutes while you sweat your balls off looking for a survivor you 99% of the time aren’t going to find. At that point I might as well hide.
Exactly, you would scratch it up to a loss so would be willing to reveal yourself to move on possibly by doing a gen or something. But that's a rare instance in my experience. Most of the time both survivors want the hatch so both hide. That seems to be the issue. So to answer your question "what am I supposed to do as a survivor realistically"...answer is do gens, get slugged and hope the killer finds the other player before you bleed out.
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For me, survivors bring it on themselves. If they are going for flashlight saves or they crawl to a pallet or they bring boil over or body block or sabotage hooks or something they are getting slugged. What am I supposed to do go for pick up knowing they will be set free? I understand why survivors try to stop the killer from getting the hooks, I don't complain, I just deal with it by slugging. If that's toxic of me then fine I'm a toxic killer for not being stupid enough to go for for pick up when there is someone with a flashlight waiting next to me.
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@Doxie said:
So as a survivor, I always hated this game play. I mean why even bother...instant kills etc. now that I'm mostly doing killer and working on achievements, I finally got this one. Was not easy mostly with survivors basically living in lockers. Nothing but 4k every time…just not the right kind. Anyhow glad I got it
That being said, what I learned was.....why would anybody run this except to get the achievement? My points were lousy, no prestige, no pips, low blood points. I guess I'm just curious. Love Myers and love playing him. Scratched mirror is fun, vaulting Myers is fun. When I'm done with the achievements with the other killers I'm definitely going back to him. I guess I'm just trying to understand or perhaps there is a way to play that style and still get good rewards.
Thanks!
I'm a Myers main, p100. Think you pretty much summed it up why some people play Myers, it's for fun. Don't need, BP or pips. I have had many matches that toxic survivors get annoyed by Myers which is a bonus lol but a lot of players like going against him because he gives good jump scares when undetectable. That's the fun part for me, sneaking up to someone on a gen and giving them a fright. More fun than doing constant loops imo. I find BP are not that bad if killer has 100% bonus and others bring things like screeched cobblers or anniversary cake.
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@RickSanchez said:
This type of gameplay cannibalizes the experience for most people, it shouldn't be part of the game, it just isn't fun no matter what.
If a killer wants to, they can completely kill the enjoyment of the game for you and decide to tunnel you, the only solution i see to completely end this toxic gameplay is to give the normal gamemode the 2v8 treatment, and make it so killers cant see hooked survivors and they get teleported randomly around the map.
No its not a viable strategy, its a toxic harmful playstyle that does nothing but make the game look bad. Remember that Twitch Tournament for DBD that a disaster?
Cage system in 2 v 8 was very quickly abused, it didn't take long for killers to work out rough estimate on where cages were. Would rush over teleport it away and repeat so no one could save.
Not only that but enjoyment is subjective, what 1 person finds toxic and boring another might find fun and reasonable. I for 1 do find camping, slugging, tunneling fun as it beats the alternative (looping). Personally I think going in circles around a pallet like scooby chase is boring, I would rather have a chase to took me around the map through different obstacles and areas, not in a circle for ages before moving on to the next loop. Some people find that fun...each to their own. But if you say camping and tunneling shouldn't be part of the game then I could say loops shouldn't be part of the game. Like it or not, it's part of the game and we all have to endure these little "unfun" flaws if we choose to play the game.
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@LadyOwO said:
Against killer's like the doctor it's impossible to finish gens because you'll either be shocked into insanity constantly or slugged just so he can go find the last survivor. Really nothing for survivors to do but hide and hope that the other dies first to have a chance at the hatch. Or if you are going against killers who have an instant down/kill ability or add on(Tombstone Myers w/fragrant hair, Hillbilly Chainsaw, Leatherface). Really nothing can be done to counter that but hide tbh.
I agree, in some cases it is impossible to finish gens. That's called checkmate as far as I'm concerned. Survivors hiding isn't a counter because if they both hide and the killer doesn't find them or refuse to down them like they refuse to do gens it goes to server end time which results in both survivors being sacrificed automatically
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I hate to be the one to say it but that's survivors for you. Not saying all survivors are like it but a huge proportion of survivors are toxic from my experience. Not sure if it's due to boredom or they know they can't win or something but I'm constantly coming across people that openly and admit to joining the match to make the game unbearable for the killer or even own team mates because they find it fun. Each to their own I suppose on what people find fun... Personally I find it fun to beat the toxic players at their own game and out toxify them then watch them rant post game lol. Had 2 swf being toxic together recently, I remembered them from before so I went straight for them and they quit.
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Should have just stayed abit longer, server would end and you would have had 4k. Also I would report them and if I find them slug them and watch them crawl around.
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Personally I prefer playing killer in dbd but survivor in tcm. Reason being, more variety of killers, I prefer to play solo and not worry if my team mates are pulling their weight. Survivor on tcm is better imo, more variety of tasks, more escape options, survivors actually have differences in skills, relies more on stealth instead of someone looping a killer like scooby doo and it actually feels like a horror game where there is suspense, the feeling of dread. When playing dbd as survivor I don't get that feeling. If the killer sees me I don't think "oh ****!" I think "oh ok, it's cool there's a few pallets here to loop for a while and if I get caught I'm still in the game"
If TCM had a way to get killers and survivors for free with in-game currency like dbd has then I would have played TCM a lot more. But the crazy prices and the forcing people to buy the new killers, no new missions or goals like dbd tomes oh and the cosmetics for survivors were a flat out scam... Charging crazy prices for the same outfit but in a different colour. That's the stuff that made me stop playing it and instead stuck with dbd.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784864#Comment_3784864
Neither does having 2 or 3 survivors remaining on the match mean the survivors have already lost, so the OP saying "What does it matter if the killer is slugging for the 4k, you practically already lost so just tab out and do something else" is a weak way of justifying slugging.
That's why I put the 4 gen example. 4 gens is "practically" the killer losing, so by that standard, if the survivors could stun the killer for the remainder of the game and the only option for the killer was "just tabbing out and doing something else" it would be completely justified.
We should probably introduce something like this and see how engaging of a mechanic that would be.
Again I have to disagree, in many cases getting it down to the last gen is where the killer is at his strongest. Losing 2 survivors and having 2 remaining is definitely not at their strongest, especially if they avoid the gens. That is acknowledgement they lost the match and try to hide for like 30min. Not quite comparable but if it is then have to compare 4min bleed out time v 30min hiding even tho they lost
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@Eelanos said:
Imagine if survivors could have 4 gens done and for the last gen they could paralyze the Killer for the rest of the match. I mean, you've already lost, so might as well just tab out and do something else, right?
Slugging as a strategy is terrible game design, not because it tips the scale in your favor, but because to do so it supresses and removes players from the match without letting them move on to the next match. They're forced to stand there and watch as things inevitably go south, which can take either a few seconds or several minutes.
It's the main reason I think you should be able to pick yourself up when you're on the floor and the killer decided to go on an adventure all around the map, as getting slugged with 4 players isn't that bad, but getting slugged once there's at least one less player immediately makes things difficult to recover from, and your only gameplay option while getting slugged is "tab out and wait until the killer inevitably slugs everyone to death".
Not exactly thrilling or healthy gameplay.
4 gens done doesn't mean the killer lost. Many times I have killed all 4 survivors with 1 gen left. It's 4min... Not that long
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/423978/fix-for-slugging
Here we go again… i think this is the weekly topic by now.
Bleeding out a survivor is no worse than when survivors intentionally drag out the game by camping at the exit gates after they've already won. This happens in about 80% of the games, sometimes survivors even split up across the map, forcing the killer to chase them to both exit gates and the hatch.
Yet, when a killer slugs a survivor for a few minutes, there’s often a big uproar, and players rush to the forums to complain.
If this is such a big concern, there are perks available to counter it and if you’re not willing to use a perk slot for that, then maybe the issue isn’t as big as it’s being made out to be.
Ideally, neither of these situations would happen - But the reality is that both do, and exit gate camping is much more common than slugging. If anything, it might be worth having the developers focus on how to address exit gate camping first, - maybe by adjusting blood point rewards to discourage staying in the game after the exit gates are opened.
Bleedouts do take longer, but they’re really rare. I can’t even remember the last time I saw one in my games.
Considering that survivors camp at the exit gates in 80% of the games anyway, does it really matter?
In the end, if one team drags out the game, it’s only natural that the other team might do the same in response. But when the tables are turned, it suddenly stops being fun for some.
It’s hard to know whether to laugh or cry about it.
And just to clarify, I’m not a killer main anymore.
I wouldn't say bleed outs are rare, it's a very common thing especially in 2 v1 situations. But as you say when survivors get slugged for 4min they don't like it... Sorry but no sympathy from me. I even made a post 2 days ago regarding a match I had where survivors hid for 25min not touching gens. 25min not doing anything v 4min not doing anything. It's getting to the point where I will drag it out to server end time, survivors would wish for the bleed out then.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783025#Comment_3783025
I'm not understanding this because you're making up a non existent scenario.
Let me put it another way: in the EGC the killer always has an option. Always. You can go earn BP by breaking walls, pallets, spamming your power for 2 minutes. You can go hit them at the gate and force them out even.
A slug on the ground has literally zero options for 4 minutes. You can crawl around a bit. You can't earn BP, you can't escape, can't get back up.
And I'm confused by your contrived scenario here. You appear to be making up some "never happens" situation to force the EGC timer to be 4 minutes. Hook the slug, force them out (in any order) and the game ends. A slugged survivor does not have any of those options. Period.
And this is the now third time you've changed your argument. We went to "but survivors" (whataboutism) to trying to invent a scenario where the poor killer has such a bad time. You've already fully, completely, and entirely conceded the initial point that having no autonomy whatsoever for 4 minutes is pretty damn bad, and should have a base kit way to speed it up.
Killers, by the way, already have this since hooking, hitting survivors of the gate, are already base kit. Killers also never lose autonomy outside of very very short stuns, not 4 minutes at a time.
So I'm done with this conversation, since I've made my point tenfold by now, and you seem to have zero interest in having a genuine discussion at this point.
And this is why you will never understand any other view other than your own, instead of trying to understand and being open you instantly close it off by saying "I'm done with this discussion" as if I have some how insulted your mother lol. i was more than happy to explain it in simpler terms for you but being as you have no intention to further the discussion I see no point. At the end of the day I'm a killer with main with regular 3/4k so why would I care about survivor complaints about slugging or anything? If it works it works, have fun in the fog 😁
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784070#Comment_3784070
I'm not talking about slugging for the 4k here.
Most, if not all of the proposed solutions I've seen basically boil down to "reveal the survivors to the killer". At which point, yes, if there are only 2 survivors and just about any number of gens remaining, that results in a 4k for the killer. You trying to justify it as "but the killer worked hard" sure, for the two kills they already got. That doesn't entitle someone to 2 more because of a new mechanic.
Finding survivors is a part of the game. It's a responsibility and skill for the killer to do that, which is why there are a ton of perks, powers, base kit mechanics, and add-ons that make this easier.
There's a huge spectrum here, where some people may genuinely not be able to find any of the 2 remaining survivors in extremely rare cases. But much more common are the killers who don't leave their gens or can't figure out how to open a locker. My personal favorite from these very forums was a guy who claimed he spent 35 minutes searching, and they were both in the basement. How do you not check the basement for half an hour? There's some kind of game sense or skill issue that comes into play here as well, and people do not want to hear that part.
Yes it's the responsibility of the killer to find the survivors but that only works if the survivors are doing their objective. If the killer has got the match in a position where the survivors admit defeat and acknowledge they can't do the objectives without dying then they are admitting they have lost the match. In that instance why should the survivors get a free escape after acknowledging defeat. The killer has clearly done more to earn the 4k. If the survivors did gens in a reasonable spacing between them then it is possible they can get them finished i have seen it happen. Difficult yes but not impossible. It's very difficult to find 2 survivors hiding especially if they are on coms in swf. They each tell the other person the location of the killer and it becomes a big issue. You make it sound like survivors are statues. They do move around, like hiding in basement 1 min then hide in a different location the next. As long as they are not running or not injured they leave no trace for the killer to track. I myself have checked basement multiple times but eventually after a very long time found 1 in the basement.
Basically the short of it is, if the survivors acknowledge defeat by giving up on the only objective they have at that point (gens) then yes I would say the killer is entitled to 4k because the 2 survivors have given up. They can hide until server time ends if they want but it will result in 4k for the killer if that happens anyway. I'm not saying killers that do poorly in a match should get 4k, they shouldn't. But I'm saying if a killer has won the match they should get the 4k. If survivors won the match, at the gate and opened it the killer has lost...killer can't complete his objective before they escape so would it be fair to then reward the killer with a potential free kill even tho the killer has lost the match? No, survivors won, all at the gate, all should get out.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783635#Comment_3783635
The complaints are valid. Holding games hostage isn't ok, and it would be nice to have a way to address it.
It's the proposed solutions that largely fit into handing the killer dead simple, essentially free kills, which would almost always turn 2k's into automatic 4k's.
I have yet to see anyone propose a solution to this problem that both solves the issue and essentially doesn't boil down to free kills, or at least giga buffs slugging for the 4k.
I think no one can agree on a solution because some killers feel that a game that has massively gone in their favour from start to finish, they counter the constant loops, deal with mind games, get the hooks required to off 2 survivors, basically work hard for the whole match to have 1 survivor that may very well have done nothing the whole time gets a free escape via hatch. It's not surprising that a killer might feel this is an injustice. But yet survivors feel they deserve a chance at a win even tho they essentially lost the match. Why would a survivor want to give up the possibility of a free escape at the end? I know if I'm a survivor I love the fact no matter what happens if I can stay out the way for long enough I could get an easy win via the hatch.
It is strange that many say about the killer wanting the 4k and the free kills.... If the killer really wanted that then they would avoid downing or hooking the last 2 survivors until absolutely necessary to try get server time to end. That would result in both survivors being killed at the same giving the 4k. Would be fairly easy especially when survivors wait so long hiding. When the killer finds them they can waste a little more time messing with them without actually downing them. But that's not what happens. They slug or hook the 3rd player which gives 2/4min to find the other survivor. This says to me it's not about the 4k at all.
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@RickSanchez said:
Hey i watched a video from scott jund (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h10-JuLwEU) recently and it got me wondering how many of his points were true, alot of the killers made now days just ignore survivor skill and just make the match uninteractive and boring
this goes for all your deathslingers, nurses, spirits and such, these killers all have a common trait in which they can all ignore looping, any killer that can't do that is at a massive disadvantage.
Looping is the survivors only defence mechanism agains the killer, and deathslinger isnt hard to beat or godly by any means, but in a loop hes just as bad as spirit because his aim is unreactable and he can keep raising his sight to zone you closer to him.
Going against a clown is extremely boring because all you do is pre drop a pallet everytime because if you don't he'll get a free hit on you.
Once again I find this "looping is the only defence" argument. No it's not. Survivors have a full arsenal of perks to use for different tactics. They just choose not to use them. I'm a Myers main and the best way to beat Myers is prevent him from getting T3. So many survivors don't seem to acknowledge this and instead of losing line of sight or hiding in a locker BEFORE I hit T3 they think it's a good idea to loop which gives me line of sight to build up to T3. Only then they think "oh lockers" but by that time it's too late. I sneak up on unsuspecting gen workers and mori them. So those survivors get eliminated as a result of the loopers. Some killers looping works, some killers looping doesn't work but people use loops as a crutch way too much. Id say use different play style to counter the anti loop killers.
As for the boring element, that's subjective. Survivors might find looping fun and some killers might too but there are many killers that don't think the scooby doo routine around a pallet is fun. It's repetitive, loop for ages, move on to next pallet and repeat. In my matches, as pyramid head I take out the looper asap by tunneling and camping if necessary.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783484#Comment_3783484
The thing is, those survivors have completed pretty much 100% of their objective, minus leaving through the gate.
If you kill 2 people or even just tunnel out 1. The game is pretty much a guaranteed loss, unless it has been a fairly even match throughout. So for completing 1 half or 1 quarter of your objective, you have pretty much won the game. Do you feel you deserve the second half of your objective because you finished the first half?
If so, let's say that survivors finish 3 gens with all 4 still alive. In this scenario, the killer still has options, even though the survivors have completed part of their objective. Those options aren't guaranteed to work, but they are there for the killer to try. Should those options be removed? Should the survivors deserve the second half of their objective for completing the first?
Again, this is all assuming the matches are one sided. Balanced matches with back and forth can always go either way.
The game can often feel hopeless enough for both sides. Without some sort of option to try for a hail mary win, there is no point in the match even continuing or the losing side to continue playing. May as well just throw in a forfeit option at that point. Of course everyone's opinion of fun is different. Some may enjoy the hopeless feeling.
To clarify myself, I'm not for survivors holding the game hostage. It's boring, unfun, and a waste of time. It needs a change of some sort. But I get those same 3 feelings when a match feels completely hopeless and I have nothing to try.
Survivors have the option to do gens in a way that that can be completed by 2 people. It's happened before very easily due to the regression limit. Might take time to slowly get them done but at some point the gens will be completed if they try. Easy option is to bypass that and go for hatch. As far as I'm concerned if they concede to the fact they can't do the objectives they have lost so yes a forfeit option would be ideal.
Maybe if there was other things to do for survivors like more totems or another way to earn points and the points became the winning factor then they wouldn't feel hope is lost so early, give up and still expect to escape. I'm not sure what the solution is but I do believe that if a killer is doing that well in the match then they should be able to get 4k. Otherwise your basically saying it should be impossible to get 4k for anyone. Because if a killer that straight up steamrolls the survivors can't get 4k then what chance does any other killer have? If it's a close match fine I get it, but in a very 1 sided match the victor should get the spoils regardless of what side the victor is. Maybe make the hatch an option for those who reach a target score throughout the match? Certainly shouldn't be an option for a survivor that has done nothing the whole match.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783184#Comment_3783184
"If the survivors have lost so bad that their situation is unwinnable I'm already the winner so give me my kills" or something, is what I've literally seen when asked why a 2K should become a de facto 4K.
Try flipping it, 4 survivors at the gate, game unwinnable for the killer. The killer gets a free kill to deny all 4 escaping even if the killer didn't get a single hook in the match. Survivors only get big BP score for all 4 escaping. Sound fair? I can guarantee swf especially would do what they can to deny the killer the single kill if the could and I bet many survivors would be annoyed at the fact a killer can suck that much at a match and still get a pitty kill at the end denying all 4 ever getting out. Survivors would say "but I did my objective, give me my escape"
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783184#Comment_3783184
I just got downed and left so the bot wouldn't get hatch... 🙃
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2MW9CCL62T4D/1916984c57225-screenshoturl.jpg
I mean the screenshot shows the bot has done a gen as you were just slugged and still shows 2 gens left.... So that means there was 3 gens left to complete and 2 survivors left (one being a bot). I would consider that situation a win for the killer. I wouldn't consider wanting the 4k to get the BP bonus looking for a free kill it's skills they would have anyway had the match gone on as normal.
People say killers are after a "free kill" even tho they clearly won the match by a landslide. I would say it's survivors looking for a "free escape" even tho they lost. A killer can't just do nothing for the whole match have a free kill at the end.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783171#Comment_3783171
I like how the OP and others can't just admit that they want a guaranteed 4k in a 2v1.
I can openly admit if the game is a clear win for the killer, the killer should get 4k. Makes more sense for the victor of the match to get 4k instead of 1 survivor that's done nothing the whole time get a hatch win. I can understand the hatch being used as a tie breaker but if there are 2 or 3 gens left and it's down to 2 survivors, that's not a tie it's a loss for the survivors so why should they get the hatch? As others have mentioned, it can be seen the other way round. "Why should killers feel entitled to 4k?" Well "why should survivors feel entitled to a hatch escape when they couldn't even do the main objective which is gens" In this particular match it wasn't about the 4k it was about the length of time I was forced to wait because of 2 stubborn survivors. There is a reason why it's reportable but slugging isn't. If it wasn't reportable, fine it's part of the game even if I don't like it but the fact it's a reportable offence means survivors shouldn't be doing it.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782194#Comment_3782194
and the last two survivors tend to hide because you can’t get anything done and you get slugged whilst the killer goes off the find the last survivor. Sorry but there’s no need to delve into anything - it’s perfectly obvious why killers do it. Because it’s easy and both things need addressing.
This has been my point for a long time, last 2 survivors basically forfeit the match by agreeing they can't complete the objective (gens). So instead of risking it, getting killed and moving on they hide and wait for pitty hatch escape. They have lost but still want to get the win. So I slug them and make it clear the match is over, 4min bleed out, match done, move on. Far better than the alternative of have 2 survivors hide for an hour until server end time runs out (which they again choose to wait out just fine but have an issue with 4min being slugged?)
So, sort the hatch situation out which will sort the 2 v 1 stand off situation out, which will trickle down and reduce the slugging situations.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782772#Comment_3782772
First of all, whataboutism.
Second, not every survivor does this.
Third, you've given up your argument entirely now. If they're teabagging, then no one is slugged or hooked and EGC is at most 2 minutes. If two minutes is so atrociously bad to wait out, then you're fully agreeing with me that 4 minutes of bleeding out is far, far worse. And there should be a way to reduce the bleed out timer.
You clearly haven't understood what I said. In my experience literally every single match where the team escape, the team will wait by the gates regardless of what is going on. If someone is slugged half way across the map the other survivors wait by the gates and tea bag. That is waiting 4min by choice for the players at the gate. It usually happens when I go a killer I'm not familiar with so end up losing badly but survivors will wait out the timer fine when they are the ones winning. They only don't like it when they are losing. I don't mind waiting the 2min or 4min (I have to wait that time regardless because I can't move on to the next game until the slugged survivor dies) but the point is survivors choose to wait when they can escape.
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@Cadpig said:
The stalling is a symptom, not the disease. Fixing the stalling wouldn't fix the problem.
Survivors aren't stalling in this situation because they want to stall, it's because they want to win just like the Killer does but their chance of success just plummeted. The best option they have at that point is to outlast the other Survivor. It just so happens that if everyone is trying to outlast each other, no one's going to get found. Whoever caves and starts trying to do generators again first is likely to be the one who gets found first (and without even finishing the generator), so no one wants to do it.
Any Killer who can get the Survivors down to 2 when there are more than 2 generators left, is a Killer the Survivors are too terrified of to continue such a risky objective. I know if I was them I'd rather "Surrender at 2" than keep trying generators at that point.
As you say you would surrender at 2...best way to do that is do the gens and get caught which essentially gives the other survivor the pitty escape. The option to end it is there. If there are 2 survivors left and there are 2 gens left and neither survivor is willing to do the gens then that's an acknowledgement they lost the match but also want to win regardless. they only hang in for the hatch which results in slugging the last 2 to give the killer a chance to find it and close it before a survivor does. You are right, the stalling is the symptom, the disease is the hatch. They want to win, they know they can't win so instead of conceding the match they stall. Get rid of the hatch or give survivors a set time to get gens done. If they fail to do them it's a loss, move on to next match. Eliminates stalling, eliminates the need to slug and survivors can finally accept the match for what it is at that point....a loss.
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@ShadowHeart said:
I decided several months ago to quit DbD because it just wasn't fun for me anymore. Then I saw cross-progression finally came out so I figured why not give PC a try and see how games go with a keyboard and mouse, and since I've been gone for a while my MMR should have chilled or whatever it's called and I should start off with some easier lobbies. Oh boy, was that wrong.
First match as killer I have 2 survivors last second switch to P100's. Normally I don't care about prestige because anyone can get P100 with time, so it isn't a sign of skill. The last second switch though is usually a sign of sweatiness. I'm bumbling through the match trying to get all my settings right and get used to the different controls and of course I'm getting t-bagged and pointed at. Whatever. Not fun, but I didn't expect it to go well. All 4 escape with no hooks.
Second match on killer I get a 4-stack SWF using double map offerings. No t-bagging or pointing, but they obviously knew the map well and catching them was impossible, especially since they kept blocking for each other. 5 gens go in under 5 minutes and I barely got one hook.
Hate to say it but I d/c'd and logged out. Maybe I'll try again later, or on a week night. But two matches in already being discouraged from playing isn't a good sign. I was really looking forward to picking up the D&D and Tomb Raider chapters, and Castlevania in a couple weeks. On the bright side I may be saving money?
No offence but giving up after 2 games isn't a good sign. I'm a killer main these days and win 90% of my matches but that percentage of win didn't happen after 2 matches. It took a lot of games of learning the sweaty survivors tactics like looping, body blocking ect. I understand you might have been looking for a chilled game to get your bearings on the keyboard and mouse but Id say stick at it, rough the sweat fest and it feels so much better at the end when they start to get beaten.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782190#Comment_3782190
This is a pretty generous interpretation of EGC. It's 2 minutes by default. The only way EGC is lasting 4 minutes is if you slug. A player goes through both hook stages in 2:20. At which point you've gotten a kill.
So basically no matter how you slice it, allowing a slugged survivor to speed up their dying is going to affect slugging as well as EGC.
But survivors have no problem tea bagging at the gates waiting for the last survivor to die or for egc to expire. They wait the time out happily, it's been a very very long time since I seen someone open the gate and escape or even try to save the team mate. So why is it they are ok to wait out 4min at the gate and not wait out 4min being slugged? Speeding up bleed out timer might help a few people move on quicker but most would hang around the gate regardless.
The countless matches I have encountered where survivors deliberately tea bag at the gate and hide out not doing gens in 2 v 1 scenarios really doesn't give me much sympathy for people waiting out 4min.
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@GoingToGetDwight said:
Stop being toxic when ever the way i play i get this every dam game when i lose and they wonder why other killers are being toxic i was slugging for the bloodwarden.
I know there are toxic players on both sides but I have to agree survivors are worse imo. Deliberately holding game hostage, deliberately repeatedly trying to blind the killer (not as a tactic but to just to be a bully) post game chat is usually hilarious because after all the toxic stuff they try in game they still lose and they vent post game.
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@Rumplestiltskin said:
Several times today as I was loading in there was a weird pause, I saw a strange background, and was disconnected from the match. I didn't get a penalty so I know it wasn't my internet. It was almost as if there was someone checking out my build or the map and then cancelling the game. However, I assumed that someone else was getting the penalty. NOW, playing Survivor, several times when I was about to get out through hatch or the gate, the same thing would happen at the end of the match, effectively cancelling it. It was is someone was preventing the outcome from the other side. Are they having server issues today? The timing seems very strange to me as it i s always when I'm just about to exit the game end with the Killer not getting a 4K.
Just had a match now, I was killer doing fine, had 3k then hatch opened. I closed the hatch, egc started. then last survivor tried opening gate, I walked up to them they stood there....when I mori them the game suddenly froze and said disconnected. No penalty, no internet issues. Not the first time it's happened either. Seems to be when I kill a certain player the game disconnects. Don't know if it's a hack or if the servers are having problems but like you say, timing is suspect. I even recorded the whole match.
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@malloymk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782412#Comment_3782412
Who gets looped endlessly in this game anymore?
Beginner players? People who go killers not suited to loops? People looking to try new builds? There are some very very good loopers out there and some very very poor killers that can't keep up
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@malloymk said:
3 k is a win and if you close the hatch you're probably going to get a 4k anyway. Just take the win and get to the next match.
Could say that to survivors that tea bag by the gates. Except 3k doesn't give anywhere near as many points as 4k does....
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@malloymk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/423978/fix-for-slugging
Every killer I played against slugged. ######### boring as ######### mechanic. Done playing survivor for a while. So damn tedious.
Well if you can't take the heat it's time to get out of the kitchen. Slugging isn't fun for you but being looped endlessly isn't fun for the killer. Both part of the game. You could use unbreakable if your not already. Other than that, ye just take a break.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
Isn't the basekit Mori technically a way to prevent slugging forever though? Especially at 2v1 scenarios?
How would basekit Mori benefit 2 v 1? Wouldn't survivors still hide in hope that the other would get killed first? If that happens then killers could just not kill either survivor and wait until server time runs out.
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@kosaba11 said:
Either make it possible to give up or add the ability to pick yourself up to the survivor's base kit. I'm so sick and tired of crap killers being allowed to slug an entire lobby just because they think getting a 4K means anything. It's not fun, it's not fair, it should be bannable and there needs to be something that makes it no longer a strategy they can go for.
I would say look at the reasons why killers slug rather than looking at slugging itself. I slug pretty often but it's not out of toxicity or because it's fun. It's because it's extremely common for the last 2 survivors to hide indefinitely hoping the other one dies so 1 can get hatch. I'm a killer and I'm going for as many kills as I can, to accomplish this I often need to slug them before they go into hiding and drag the game out even longer. When it's 2 left there is no telling how long it will be before the game ends. If that issue was solved there would probably be far less slugging.
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@Grumblephant said:
I think there should just be a "die faster" button when you're slugged. Like, cut the time in half when you press it or something.
It's only 4min to bleed out, it's the same time as end game timer when someone is hooked or slugged. It's really not that long. If bleed out time can be reduced willy nilly by a survivor then I would like to reduce end game timer willy nilly
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@Naiki said:
Hi, so I don't really tend to speak on the forums but I feel like this issue is getting out of hand. I've been playing dbd for a while now and even though I'm not the best player by far I've always been able to play and enjoy the game both on my own and playing with my friends but recently I haven't been able to play without being tunneled out of the game. By tunneling I mean being the first person to go down and hooked and then getting chased straight off the hook until I'm out of the game, no matter how many teammates try and stop it the killer doesn't seem to care and just wants me.
Last time I tried to play with my friends I got tunneled 4 games I'm a row and I just stopped playing because I wasn't having fun. Even if I'm not the one being tunneled I see a teammate in the same situation at least once or twice every couple of games (think about 1/2 times out of 7/8 games).
Again I know that I'm not the best at the game and I could get better at running the killer around but I shouldn't have to become the best at the game or play at a competitive level to just have fun, to just play the game I payed for. I don't have a solution for it but if anyone can think of something to stop it it would be great, I really like playing dbd but if this keeps up I don't think I want to go back to it :(
It sounds like your incredibly unlucky to be first that's tunnelled out repeatedly. Unless it's your playstyle? Only reason I suggest playstyle is because many people try to get chased to buy the team time. If that's the case then to be tunneled is expected. There is usually a looper trying to get the chase in every match I play so if your doing gens and there is a looper going for chases then I'm not sure how your being tunnelled out before the looper. It's possible the killer is avoiding the loopers leaving them for last and concentrating on the gen workers, it's difficult to say without knowing your play style per different match. I do think they should have an easy going unranked mode (other than custom)
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781457#Comment_3781457
Without the hatch, the game is over the moment the second survivor is killed, and every 2K becomes an automatic 4K.
This means the game has to be balanced around a 2K being the optimum target for killers, and a 1K being the average.
The match is pretty much over after 2k. After 2k the killer has usually won because the remaining 2 admit defeat and hide so they can try get the hatch. Although this hiding tactic is reportable it still happens after 2k
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Im seeing a lot of "nothing for survivors to do"... Not true, they do have gens to do but CHOOSE not to do them as it will result in "certain death". So many say "what am I supposed to do, give the killer the kill?" Ok fair enough but if the killer doesn't kill either survivor and the game goes to server end time the survivors get automatically sacrificed anyway. Now you could say if a killer CHOOSES not to kill them then that's ok? I bet a lot of people would have an issue with that. They already have an issue with the 4min slug timer. If a killer kills 1 of the survivors then it's certain escape for the other one via hatch. Sooo it works the other way round, what is a killer supposed to do, give survivor the hatch?
I'm tempted to experiment with that, just not do my objective because someone might escape the hatch, take it to end server time. It's clearly ok for survivors to do it after all.
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Ye I know all too well the 2 v 1 stand off, personally I think the game should have some sort of mechanic in place. What the solution is I honestly don't know, crows or even basekit whispers would be something. Yes I know they are already perks but it doesn't stop survivors getting basekit BT even tho that's already a perk. Whispers isn't too op because it only tells the killer there is a survivor within a certain radius, still have to track them down and go through the rigmarole of loops to down them. And survivors shouldn't really complain about it because if they are in that situation they have already lost and acknowledged they can't do the main objective (gens) in order to escape. So match over, get it done asap to move on. it's not like slugging where the player gets to move on after 4min (same time limit as egc if someone is downed or hooked I believe?), the 2 v 1 situation can effectively go on until server time ends.
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@LordGlint said:
Anyone else seeing survivors cleansing dull totems in this gamemode instead of doing gens? Lol
I can say, I have prioritized totems over gens in some matches due to some tome requirements. There are a few that require 15 or 20 times cleansed. Much easier to do in 2 v 8 so makes sense many people want to use the mode to finish up some annoying tomes they previously missed. And like others have said, if the situation looks dire then totems are another source of BP other than gens and escaping.
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@bluesidesoul said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3779494#Comment_3779494
Almost as if there is a penalty for doing so, hmmmmmmmm
Yes with a penalty lol but if killers don't get 4k they don't as much BP so could say the penalty for killers is less BP for 3k instead of 4. My point is your comment saying about killers family might die if they don't get 4k making it out to be a life or death situation irl... So survivors get a little penalty for leaving, big deal, will survivors family die if they leave the match? Difference is killers getting 4k is part of the game. If your going to leave matches that often then maybe the game isn't for you?
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@RenoPro said:
The result of sbmm and mmr is getting the same boring matches over and over and never improve bc you encounter only pp of your level.
I propose to remove it completely and add a system where player with less than n° of hour will only match themself until they reach the cap of h° and will get trow with everybody else.
It's been baffling me for some time, why such emphasis on number of hours. I get that it shows experience and would show the player has had a variety of matches but many people relate hours to skill level. Years ago I had 300 hours and beat a team of survivors that had over 1.5k hours. Some people pick things up quicker than others.
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@bluesidesoul said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3779352#Comment_3779352
Give me an option to self kill myself and the killer can get their precious 4k while I get to be in the next match getting more points and having fun. Anything where after 90 seconds or something I can just die since the killers family will die if they don't get the 4k. I just love being on the ground for 4 minutes because they're so thirsty for a 4k. Because once the killer is in chase with the second to last survivor, there is NO REASON for me to have to wait for them to down them, hook and then get me.
You do have the option to quit the match. Or will the survivors family die from doing that?
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@wsm10 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768400#Comment_3768400
If you decide to play in a way that a vast majority of the player base absolutely can't stand in order to win, that 100% is a lack of empathy. You are making the choice to say "I don't care who's involved & how they feel, I'm winning at all cost because they don't matter to me," instead of other ways that can be just as successful if you put the time in to learn it. There's no way around it. Not only does is show a lack of compassion or empathy for the people you play against, it also shows an unhealthy obsession with winning. There's all kinds of data out there to show this, and it's indisputable.
This is one of the biggest problems in this community. I'm not saying that you necessarily are doing this, but people try to make excuses for being horrible to each other to justify whatever they're doing. People need to stop doing it & start considering the other human beings they're playing with. Not bots, human beings. Both sides are guilty of it,so it's not one or the other.
It does slightly amuse me when I play in a way the opposition considers toxic or boring or generally disagrees with... They make out like it's my duty to make the game fun for them. Absolutely not. I play the game for my entertainment, if others don't like how I play the game, I'm sorry but that's really not my problem. I don't expect people to think "must make the game fun for someone else" I openly admit to having no empathy for others when I'm playing the game as people have none for me and I don't expect them to. I'm not a dev, it's not my game I just play it, the onus to make everyone have fun isn't on me. I don't see anything wrong with people enjoying the game however they want as long as it doesn't conflict with the Devs TnC and their rules. If anyone has an issue with not having fun then it's down the the Devs.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778984#Comment_3778984
The chase is the only part of the survivor role that provides skill expression, which is why many including myself feel it is the fun part. But the survivor is not designed to be able to loop a decent enough distance with only 1 health state, which is why there are 2 before they are down. When you are tunneled off hook, you are only left with 1 health state, so the chances of the chase lasting are extremely slim leading to a quick down which is why it is such an effective "playstyle". Killers can choose the hook they put the survivor on as well, it is sometimes dependent upon map rng but it's not difficult to hook a survivor into a dead zone, or a corner of the map where there are no resources to help that survivor after they've been unhooked. For example I've been put on a hook on the hill by a tunneling buba, so, no escape there. And I've been put on a hook in the back of the map in a corner while a huntress stood on a hill nearby and hit those who tried to unhook me and then tunneled.
Tunneling is very easy, and surviving tunneling is not. You can push it on survivors and claim they need to get better, that they should've brought perks to counter something base-game, that they need to just move on to the next. You have every right to feel that way. But Tunneling is not popular because it is an impressive display of skill or because it is risky. It is popular because it is easy, and it is effective. Thus why anti-tunneling perks and measures were put in the game to try and counter it, because it is strong.
Many have their solution to tunneling, and I have my own. Right now killers don't have much of an incentive to spread hooks, and a common issue/complaint in the killer role is gen times. I propose that tunneling reflects the gen effeciency. If a killer hooks a survivor consecutively, then all gens get a repair speed buff, taking less time to complete. When killers hook a different survivor, all gens get a repair speed slowdown that does not count as one of the 7 damages a gen can take (the anti 3-gen system) taking more time to complete. These would stack for both sides. This doesn't take away a killers option to tunnel but it is no longer the most effecient strategy and in turn, every survivor gets a chance to play the game. It provides a built in slow down not reliant on perks, and rewards killers for taking the time to chase multiple survivors.
I know why tunneling is not popular and killers do it because it's efficient but what you suggest with hooking same player consecutively resulting in gen speed buff it leaves it open to be exploited by survivors that basically get hooked once then try to get hooked again so the team gets the buff to gen rush before the killer gets a chance to hook someone else. Even if the killer doesn't intentionally tunnel they could be forced into providing the survivors team with a buff they didn't want to do. This is especially true when survivors are the character, it can be difficult to keep track of who's been hooked and who hasn't when there are 4 sables running around. It would just increase slugging tbh which is another thing survivors hate as they express this very clearly when I slug the last 2 to deal with the hatch situation. It is true, people know what the match entails, know the common strats and tactics used so should come prepared to counter them
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@Tyler3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778973#Comment_3778973
When there's 2 survivors left, the game takes a dark turn (not that it was sunshine & rainbows anyway). In this situation, no matter what, the survivors can't do anymore gens. The Trial then turns into something like this:
Option 1 - Both survivors will do their best to hide, until inevitably one of them gets found.
Option 2 - One survivor willingly sacrifices themselves so that the other has a chance of escaping.
Option 3 - Both survivors attempt to expose the location of the other survivor.
Typically, when one of the survivors gets hooked, even if they're on the first hook stage, the other will just hide away in a locker and wait for the hatch to spawn.
The Endgame is brutal.
Or alternatively which is what I do, slug one of them and it gives me 4min to find the other one. I know not a popular tactic but at this point I truly have no sympathy for survivors that don't like being slugged for 4min when they have no issues with hiding, not doing gens and basically slalling the game for a hell of a lot longer than 4min. In a previous post I mentioned this, looking for survivors for over 20min because they would not reveal location, not doing gens, not leaving any scratch marks. 4min is nothing compared to that. It is indeed brutal at the end game for everyone.