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Predated
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232157#Comment_2232157
To put it in a word, nonsense. The so-called community (the player base) isn't in agreement on anything. For every person you find that thinks YOUR preferences are an honor rule, I'll find you one that laughs hysterically. Honor is an "individual" thing; it always has been. Feel free to maintain YOUR honor. Nobody begrudges you that. Just don't try to sell your snake-oil to anyone else. Good sportsmanship and honor for EVERYONE is merely the rules. Anything extra is yours and yours alone.
THE MAJORITY is. The playerbase IN GENERAL is. And no, for every person I can find that laughs hysterically, I can find at least 5 people agreeing with me.
"Good sportsmanship and honor for EVERYONE is merely the rules."
You said yourself "Honor is an "individual" thing; it always has been.". So how can the rules be honorable when they are merely the rules? They apply to everyone, they cannot be honor.
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231880#Comment_2231880
I've changed my mind Pyramid Head is fine his add-ons are great ,he doesn't need any changes!
What made you change your mind?
Because last time I checked:
Obsidian Goblet doesnt really work due to trails being created behind PH(unless that got fixed).
Crimson Ceremony is not really great as Torment already leaves a path behind players, Haemorrhage doesnt really help PH's power.
Rust Coloured Egg doesnt really impact the game, 60 seconds of blindness is strong when hooking people, but it doesnt include cages, only the aura's of people inside the cage.
Scarlet Egg, while it does increase the basekit, might aswell be a different addon. Just like Misty Day and Leopard-Print(I mean, sure, it increases the time, but again, using the yellow and purple gives you 5 seconds of information, which is nice, but you dont really need 2 extra seconds, you just need to know their initial location).
The rest, I agree, but it's these 6 that IMO dont really work. Obsidian Goblet could obviously easily be fixed by making sure the trail is created in front of PH rather than behind him, but the other could easily be reworked as they dont really add on to his main kit, nor do they unlock a different playstyle(like Scratched Mirror Myers has a very different playstyle than standard Myers, or like how double Calm Addon doctor has a very different playstyle from normal doctor). Hence they being odd ones out. Unless I am missing a certain build on him that makes those addons at least worth a slot.
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@CreamedTunaFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231644#Comment_2231644
You can not "bait out" dead hard if they are smart and are at a loop. The only time you are baiting out a dead hard is when they are no where near a pallet or window and do it as a hail mary.
Good survivors will use it to make distance and get to a pallet and drop it to extend the chase. They won't dh into a tree or a wall, that's what bad players do.
You cannot bait out a dead hard if they are smarter than you*.
And yes, if its used at a loop, they will need to drop a pallet for their dead hard to have any real value. If they can use dead hard to keep a pallets standing, you're the one doing somethign wrong.
And so what if they can do it as a hail mary? You know what else is done as a hail mary? Lunging when a pallet is being dropped. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesnt. Just like Dead Hard.
"Good survivors will use it to make distance and get to a pallet and drop it to extend the chase"
Just like good killers will use a lunge to close distance if they are dropping one way to shorten the chase. Just like good killers will use a lunge to bait a pallet being dropped that they want gone ASAP.
Works both ways. Want to get rid of dead hard? Get rid of lunges too.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231807#Comment_2231807
You read this entire thread and got absolutely nothing from it. Those two aren't rules of "honor" either, merely your preference. The only things Players on either side should be abiding by are:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spike.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Those are the only requirements of good sportsmanship and thus honor is satisfied. Any additional rules, which you make up for yourself, only apply to you. It is, in fact, bad sportsmanship to infer or state that others are beholden to your personal code.
But those are actual rules. Honor rules is what the playerbase expects in general. Considering the general consensus is "genrush bad" and "camping/tunneling for no reason bad". Yeah, those are honor rules. Ones not stated by the game, ones just being desired by the community as a whole. So no, its not just MY preference, its the consensus of the community as a whole. It's why people who tunnel hardcore at 5 gens get hated. Its why people who do a 3 gen split when the killer doesnt even have a single hook get hated. The only "preference" is the amount of gens where that behaviour is going to be neccesary.
Besides, those arent the only requirement of good sportmanship and I can easily prove it:
I can proxy camp a survivor, tunnel them hardcore only to slug him in the end and keep slugging all game. I would not be cheating, I would not be disconnecting, and all I would need to do is say "gg" after essentially torturing a player in game by making them unable to play. That's not good sportsmanship. That's not honorable. Yet they follow all the rules in the game.
As for "be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat", not an honor rule. Some builds are meant to be madness inducing to the opposition, the more triggered the opposition is, the fairer it can get. The honor in that situation is to not exploit that madness to rush objectives for no reason.
You cannot say that actual in game rules that have actual penalties and consequences(cheating and disconnecting) are honor rules. I can suicide on hook because I simply dont want to play a certain match due to either teammates being extremely slow and selfish, or the killer being extremely boring and campy. It would be an honorable way to exit the game. It would be dishonorable for my teammates to expect me to stay in a game that has practically 0 chance of recovery and practically 0 chance of progression(especially if the killer slugs a lot).
Which leads back to rushing objectives. Dont rush objectives for no reason. That's the only honor rule anyone can live by without any holes in it. And it's the only honor rule that's supported by the community in general. Doesnt mean objectives are never rushed for no reason. Sometimes its accidental, sometimes its on purpose(for example, against spirits with prayer beads and stridor, or against survivors who decide to work on generators in your face because they assume you wouldnt chase someone off hook), but it's generally avoided. Making it an honor rule.
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@BuddhaBing said:
The fact that survivors can't attack the killer. Sure, they have some offensive actions, but there's nothing that they can do to kill or even do long-term damage to the killer. It feels like every game that has that mechanic eventually loses all of the horror aspect. Granted, dbd loses most of the horror aspect after a while, but I think not being able to damage the killer makes sure there's at least a speck of horror in the game.
It also keeps the killer base up because no matter how frustrating survivors can be, it doesn't come anywhere close to how frustrating it is to have them actually be able to kill you.
The only other game I can think of that does this is Identity V and that's really just a dbd clone anyway.
HSH:S actually has quite a decent combo where you can kill the killer, but only if you are actually better than the killer. If only their matchmaking was a tiny bit more consistent. You would never die as a killer if survivors are equally matched with you.
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@DarkMagik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231734#Comment_2231734
It was a very successful game but died because of the no content(caused by Lawsuit)
exactly, which is why the frequently updating content is what keeps DBD popular. Its not amazing content, but it's fresh. You could quit for 9 months and the changes would actually be noticable and nice. It's just that the process of updating is so clunky. I mean, not even 5 months ago, DS was universally hated due to it's annoyance. Not even 8 months ago, Undying was hated for respawning Ruin at 100% power(it would have been semi fine if ruin grew weaker with each respawn). Not even 1 year ago, Bubba was massively disliked to play as.
Sure, some things have changed for the worse. But in general? Everytime you leave, it will always be better when you come back. It's why old players keep returning, its why new players keep joining.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2226968#Comment_2226968
camping is not hag specific. your issue has nothing to do with her power
But Hag is the only one who has a massive area of camping, where other killers have quite a small area where they can effectively camp.
So yeah, it has everything to do with her power. The fact she can defacto camp a huge area while not even being there and instantly being there, while all others actively need to be there.
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2226611#Comment_2226611
Only when you're directly in front of them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2226764#Comment_2226764
I see you're point ,than he is fine as is. Definitely don't want him changed anymore, but maybe two of his add-ons should do something else.Leopard Print can become an exhaust add-on,Scarlett Egg should boost his speed while walking on trail's.
Rusted Egg could act as an expose status ,if someone saves someone from a cage.
I mean, honestly, some of PH's addons could basically be hook perks turned into addons except slightly worse. Like, basically Make Your Choice, but instead of 60 seconds its 30. Or basically Blood Echo, but instead of 45 seconds, its 5(which is really useful to him for momentum), also no cooldown ofcourse(I mean, add infectious fright and survivors surrounding you, and its a nasty combo). Or basically pop, but instead of 25% and 45 seconds its 15% and 30 seconds(which could stack with Pop, but I mean, if you can hook and cage 2 survivors within 30 seconds, let alone using 2 slots for it).
You know, reasons to actually use your caging power over hooking survivors instead of keeping them tormented till the end for an easy kill.
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The only rules of honor that exist are:
- as killer, try not to camp or tunnel unless you need to(often around 2 gens left or less with no one dead or dead on hook).
- as survivor, try not to rush gens unless you need to(often around 3+ gens left when someone is dead on hook).
That's it, that's the rules of honor. Dont rush games. Its not a tournament. You get nothing extra for rushing.
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@Momentosis said:
Just don't listen to the ######### anybody says, especially the survivors.
I mean, especially killers too tho. People camping at first hook being like "Oh, BuT i GoT a 4k So I wIn". Even though there is absolutely no challenge to that playstyle.
Players who only play 1 side are entitled AF, always complain about mechanics on the other side and never ever looking at their own. "dead hard bad, but lunge good, sprintburst bad, but spirit is fine, unbreakable bad, but slugging good"
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@glitchboi said:
Tbh I feel like Myers saved DBD.
Nah, it was a very solid game back then, growing steadily, Myers just was the first reason DBD broke the barrier from "niche horror game that was made in response to F13"(they say its due to the bear, which is partially true too, but F13 gave them a lot of inspiration), into "solid standalone game that keeps adding new content".
If anything, the new content keeps DBD fresh, it keeps the game modern, it keeps the game playable. All DBD needs now, is a total revamp of their original coding so that a lot of bugs that occur due to ancient coding or old coding just screwing with newer coding. Because technically, entity blocking could one day bug out and never block windows due to them never blocking the windows early on. People say they have removed old coding from the games, but I've seen too many bugs being eerily similar to old game mechanics(even a pallet vacuum bug) that make me think its actually still there.
They need a solid core with solid coding, one that barely breaks itself, so they wont have to look into older coding ever again when new bugs appear.
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@DarkMagik said:
Liscenced Chapters(They got Myers as their 2nd Chapter),without them DBD would not have been Succesful
I mean, F13 the Game kinda contradicts your statement
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@Jay_Whyask said:
I didn't even know it was re-enabled. Why was it disabled in the first place, and when was it re-enabled?
You could fully bodyblock the basement inside the house and the hook upstairs, making it very easy for people to just hook 2-3 survivors there, and wait 120 seconds.
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Some, so far all tricksters I faced in red ranks knew how to use his ability. I've faced a few terrible ones, but almost always they just started playing him.
I've seen more terrible Spirits that deserve to be rank 9 than I have seen terrible Tricksters(in terms of ratio, about 60% of Spirits heavily rely on the scratchmarks, not really using her power well, about 10% of tricksters were terrible).
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@CreamedTunaFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2227717#Comment_2227717
There is no way to deal with it unless you're a ranged killer like huntress, ph, or nemesis who can hit them over/thru the pallet after they dh to it.
DH as it is now, is just a panic button that can get you to a pallet or window for free if you're not dumb. The perk really needs a 2sec interaction lock after you use it, so you'd have to think about it a bit more instead of "duurrr dead hard to pallet and insta drop it".
I mean, they are forced in a straight line to where their character is looking at, they cannot curve, or massively change direction last second.
Yknow, like PH, Huntress, Billy, Oni, Nurse, Doctor, Bubba having massive mobility while being able to instadown, Plague, Pig, Killer lunges in general.
Dead Hard is easy to deal with. Either force it out early in a chase, or bait it. Not that big of a deal.
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Oh, you mean like how lunges exists?
"oh look at me, I hold m1 slightly longer than normal and close an otherwise massive gap"
Same argument
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2226035#Comment_2226035
you can easily crawl to the hook and get an unhook safely.
the issue is crawling away while she runs back.
If she's not close to her hook, sure, crawling is easy. 'Cept that hag players dont really do that
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@ZonkyWizard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2225970#Comment_2225970
That's a lot... I don't think I've ever reached that amount of ultra rare add ons on ANY killer.
I mean, I saved up a ton of BP while playing other killers aswell and dedicated all my BP into that singular killer. Doctor is one of the best killers when it comes to getting a massive load of BP. Not playing a certain killer while leveling them up from 0-50 with all perks tends to grant you a LOT of pink addons.
Besides, that 10% extra pinks you get on p3 helped, even though a lot of people would call that "insignificant". I've gained pink addons from yellow mystery boxes, I've gained 2 pink addons on the same bloodweb at least once every 3 bloodwebs quite a lot too. Heck, I even started ignoring Tombstone and Ebony Mori's now because I rarely see a need to use them in the first place. Fragrant Tuft has a lot more synergy with perks and addons while Tombstone requires PWYF and Ebony Mori's were never really fun before and now arent really worth it.
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@TheOptimiser said:
Not a single killer has gone past Prestige 1 lvl 50 for me. I'd rather have all perks on lvl 3 for all killers than some bloody clothes...And with so many killer outfits out for every killer, it's even less worthy...
You do realize prestiging does more than just bloody clothes?
- it increases green item rarity by 10% per prestige
- it increases purple rarity by 10% on p2 and p3
- it increases pink rarity by 10% on p3.
Now, what does this really mean to you in practice?
It means that on P0 level 50, you'd get 1 pink addon per bloodweb, and very rarily 2 if you're lucky. While at p3, you'd get 2 pinks about every 2-3 bloodwebs on average.
Let alone, p0 all perks will cost you currently 12-16 million BP in the first place(depending on entity consumption). Do you know what P3 all perks costs? 18-20 million BP(depending on entity consumption)
For green addons, you wouldnt really notice much because map offerings are green. But the big deal is that instead of 500 commons, 450 yellows, 300 greens, 250 purples and 50 pinks, you would now have 450 commons, 425 yellows, 320 greens, 270 purples and 75 pinks. Essentially, you get less browns and yellows of which you already have plenty, and instead gain pinks, greens and purples. Meaning the overal grind is less if you want specific addons.
On p0, a grey present will always be a grey addon or offering, on p3 it could be purple.
Let alone that they are planning on making prestiging more interesting for players in the first place, they havent really spoken much about it, nor have they revealed anything, but it is somewhere on their todo list. Now, what if that were to happen and you're on p0, you would lose all the BP you invested on that character to get a bonus you could have easily gotten by spending 6 million extra BP, and instead, you now wasted 14 million BP on getting all the perks on the characters p0 and have to spend another 18 million BP to prestige them up.
On the long haul, that 30% extra greens, 20% extra purples and 10% extra pinks will add up significantly. It might take a couple million BP spend to notice, but if you were to spend 100 mill BP on a single character, you would easily be able to get that 6 million additional BP you spend back on the p3 and have more high tier addons.
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@nursewannabe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2225999#Comment_2225999
Nope, when they implemented MMR they explicitly stated that they had collected tons of data in the previous months so that people wouldn't just be rerset to 0
Except that they didnt collect tons of data on matchmaking. They made the system predict the outcome, and if the outcome was exactly as predicted, not much would change in ELO, but if it was more to one side than the other one, it would change ELO accordingly(example being, if you were a red rank killer, the game would predict you to get a 4k in 5-6 minutes on green ranks, but if the green ranks were to have a 3 man escape after 15 minutes, your MMR as killer would drop massively, while if you were to get a 4k in 1 minute, it would increase massively).
You cannot implement an MMR system with people already being at higher ranks. Thus all ranks MUST be equal on launch. Their MMR system had 0 data on player ELO. It was just a system that had enough data to predict the outcomes of the match and based ELO around the difference.
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2225848#Comment_2225848
Again we don't want these changes we want less cooldowns
But you NEED the cooldowns, because otherwise his 1v1 gets too powerful. Less cooldowns on PH means an average chase would last 10 seconds. 10 seconds for an average chase isnt enough, even Spirit takes longer than that purely because she has to walk towards a survivor.
Getting less cooldowns, means PH needs to be made weaker. Do you want PH to apply deepwounds on injured survivors with his power? Because having less cooldowns would mean he needs to apply deepwounds on injured survivors instead of downing them.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2225816#Comment_2225816
It think it's the two floors and multiple layering etc. All seems like a hike.
I mean, in terms of pathing, it's still the smallest. Dead Dawg Saloon has more total surface than Hawkins and Dead Dawg is the smallest map in the game. If anything, I think it's due to the wall and floor design being pretty much equal everywhere, it can be disorienting, making it feel much bigger than it really is.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2216732#Comment_2216732
But the point is to enjoy the game I bought so why not just play survivor and get my money's worth...the killer gets a survivor who will make sure that the others escape and its win win. The killer gits gud quicker and rank up to meet the sweat squads...it is what matchmaking is all about right now😊
I mean, I play rank 1 on both sides, never really had issues with either in ranking up, nor had I ever really issues with being matched with higher ranks.
I think your biggest issue was that you had no clue on what survivors get in terms of information. You cannot consistently be a rank 1 killer without having played survivor at least a couple of times, nor can you be a consistent rank 1 survivor without having played killer at least a couple of times.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2216647#Comment_2216647
You are making this a way bigger issue than it actually is
Except that it is quite a big issue, considering Hag's teleporting range is already massive. You used to be able to run in if you knew Hag was on the opposite side of the map. Nowadays, this is only true for massive maps like Mothers Dwelling.
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I've always been of the opinion:
If you need to slug for 4k's, you suck at getting 4k's. There is an exception tho, where you instantly find the other survivor and then are slugging to keep your momentum. But if there is no other survivor within any observation(infectious fright, footsteps, breathing, coughing, actually seeing or hearing them), slugging is just admitting you cant get a 4k.
So, again in my opinion: slug for 4k<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<3k+gate escape<3k+hatch<3k+gifted hatch/actual 4k
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Back in the day, it was either Sprint Burst or Adrenaline. I am honestly not too sure which one I got first.
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@Orion said:
Because you didn't do enough to pip. Killers who camp also depip, if survivors rush the gens. Why should you get a safety pip because of how you lost or how quickly you lost?
I mean, imo that logic only applies if you actually had a chance to do anything to achieve a pip. Unless killers can be banned for facecamping due to forcibly depipping the survivor. Because, may I remind you, SWF's can be banned if they forcibly make killers depip.
So either make forced depipping(aka, facecamping) bannable, or grant facecamped survivors a black pip if they spend 50% of their match on the hook. Cant earn a safety pip in 2 minutes.
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@nursewannabe said:
Remember when they first tried MMR how bad it was? People with a few hours in game getting matched against people with thousands of hours? That was easy to solve: public outcry on every social media and it was just disabled.
Now, the *same* people who came up with that MMR are developing a system that will automatically ban players. I don't need any explanation, I don't want any explanation or guarantee. I just don't want an autoban system. Because imagine having to write a ticket to the support because you were unjustly banned, waiting for either a copy/paste reply that *might* say you got unbanned. No thanks.
The biggest flaw with the MMR system was that it was applied without shadowrunning the program first. It just assumed all players were new.
Eventually it would have straightened out, like after a month or 2, but that all could have been avoided if they simply shadowran the program. Current matchmaking already has mixed matches where the game can easily find out what players would be below 1000 elo and what players would be above that. Shadowrunning the program for a month or 2 before implementation would have solved the outcry. Because it was working as MMR should, it's just never a good decision to add in an MMR system in a game that has been running for 5 years. Imagine Dota or League of Legends implementing a brand new MMR system, ignoring the old data and never shadowrunning it. I can guarantuee you that you'd have extremely high tier players playing against the lowest tier players quite often.
The MMR wasnt bad, the way they implemented it was.
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Myers, before Wraith got his buff, Myers IMO had the most perk and addon potential in builds. I find using meta really boring unless I absolutely need it(4 man SWF with 1000+ hours each), so I tend to run more unknown perks instead where I tend to get the edge in survivors not being aware of the existances of the perk effects in the first place. So I got every perk and addon on him right now.
Sadly also the first time I found out that green rarity is actually the biggest rarity thanks to map offerings being green. So ironically, while I do have 40 of each iri addon and at least 30 of each purple addon, I barely have more than 10 for each green addon.
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2225264#Comment_2225264
The killer isn't the only one who can bait survivors can do it as well. Holding W is his counter and survivors earn time for their team without much effort.
Holding W is any killer's counter. That's kinda the problem with most killers and why a lot of killers cannot be buffed. Maps are designed to not be able to forever hold W. "but they can run along the walls" So? you can cut them off then. Any survivor holding W can be cut off on the vast majority of maps.
PH doesnt have much counterplay in close counters and mostly relies on PH's prediction skills, that makes him pretty much impossible to buff. Doctor has a similar power, but at least his shocks dont lead to a damage state, which is why Doc can recieve buffs(albeit minor ones) while PH cannot.
All PH needs is either the player base looking into his addons to see if there is any undiscovered gameplay(like no power oni), and if that is not the case, the devs need to alter half of his addons.
As for the only buff I could consider right now for PH: his trail starting at his blade, instead of behind him, so you can use his pink addon properly while placing trails.
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I mean, I dont think DC's ever should count as kills. It's too easy, free and 0 effort while already giving you a benefit where 1 survivor has disappeared as if he were killed. Add on to the fact that there are perks that rely on kills and dont activate on DC's, because again, it's too easy and free.
Now, what they should do, is do the same they do on DBD mobile: add in an AI player instead. At least an AI will unhook where some teammates might not, which is a huge improvement for solo queue. An AI player will work on gens where a Blendette would self-care in the corner of the map, again, an improvement. An AI player will heal you if you need a heal instead of ignoring you, again, an improvement.
Even if the AI drops pallets faster, even if the AI is terrible at looping, at least the AI is still there, aiding the survivors.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
A year later, and I still haven't fully mastered the structure of Midwich. But the last few licenced maps (RCPD, Midwich and Hawkins) have been all rather large.
Hawkins large? Its one of the smallest maps.
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@AngryKiller said:
They don't wanna change keys, there is no way they would change an entire new map they just released. Even if it's a copy and paste and took no effort on BHVR side.
Except you're wrong on both accounts: they are changing keys(its just that outside the 1v3 with 1 gen, keys arent that powerful, just annoying at best as someone is removed from the game). The map, while the design is copied(in fact, it's been purchased for use), they did have to recreate it themselves entirely. Have you ever recreated an entire map? Takes a ton of effort alone.
Besides, they will definitely make some changes. Funnily enough, breakable walls would solve a lot of issues that the map has(you cannot simply add holes in the wall everywhere, as it would either allow survivors to gain massive pressure or killers to gain very easy kills, breakable walls are kinda that sweet spot where the killer would have access to very easy kills if he invests 2 seconds while survivors cannot gain any pressure at all because they cant break down walls).
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The generator aura perk is an absolute monster vs Ruin, the healing perk is amazing at fooling a killer(I've brought self-care and that perk. Having sudden 0 sound when the killer is looking for you, when they've been hearing your grunts of pain all the time makes them look somewhere else). The flashbang is MUCH brighter than the fire cracker, and it can be refreshed infinitely(in theory, ofcourse). Let alone that you can get the flashbang AFTER you used a toolbox already. So you can bring an item that gives you a free flash save, when the killer might not expect it.
Hysteria is pretty decent, just a perk to apply obliviousness fairly easily in a stealth build(note, for Dark Devotion, you HAVE to hit the obsession to reach a similar effect, for Tinkerer, a generator needs to be finished, for Nemesis, they need to become the obsession through any means, for pretty much any other way of getting 0 terror radius, survivors need to do something that actively aids survivors or otherwise a very specific situation. This is a replacement perk for those perks, where you can just injure people willy nilly. It's not meant to be amazing, it's just meant to be a different option.
Eruption, probably is gonna get a slight buff. If not on release, it will in 3 months after release. Let alone that, although I havent tested it, Eruption should stack with Surge. Which is 12%, flat. It also stacks with Pop, meaning that 1 single generator could regress up to 37% in a very short time. So yeah, there is a reason why Eruption cannot be strong. That's Pop and Surge.
Lethal Pursuer is a nice addition, how often do you enter a game where you assume survivors to be on the opposite side of the map, only for them to barely spawn outside your terror radius and finish the generator before you even realize they might have spawned on the same side. Lethal Pursuer is meant to give you that information.
As for Jill, well, her unhook heal is nice, but not that amazing, because while in theory it could stack with solidarity and gives a nice double heal after an unhook, it also means that the killer needs to ignore the unhook as a whole, and ignore you as an unhooked survivor. Meaning that if the killer ever interrupts you before you get healed, the perk is literally useless.
Her totem perk actually doesnt seem to work as the description. I tracked the time, and you simply seem to only get 1 stack. The first totem is at 1.2 charges per second. The second totem at 1.4 charges per second. The third totem? 1.4 charges per second. You'd expect the last totem to be cleansed in a mere 8 seconds(as it should be at 2 charges per second by then). Yet it took me about 11 seconds to cleanse it, which is only 40% faster. Maybe its bugged, I hope at least.
Her landmine actually has 2 uses, one that's a lot better than people think:
- sets a trap for 45 seconds, obviously. BUT if the trap isnt triggered, she regains her trap for the next one.
- It turns the gen you're currently working on yellow.
So, this is essentially the same effect as Better Together that can stun the killer.
Are all the perks absolute god tier? No, but they do allow very creative situations that you can use quite heavily in your favor if you play your cards right. A good example prior to this, was Deception, Lithe, Dance With Me and Quick and Quiet. Which makes you essentially disappear from the killer POV. It's not incredibly strong, but it's very fun to use and can be very effective.
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@Frontdoor6 said:
Licker Tongue: Increased Hindered effect after hitting a survivor with Tentacle slash
Question: I've seen a few videos of survivors facing Nemesis and i don't see any Hindered effect at all, how does this addon increase the time of it?
NE-A Parasite: When you receive a Contamination effect, a survivor becomes Oblivious for 60 secs
Question: When it says A survivor gets the effect, does that mean the one you hit or just any random other survivor?
When you're infected, you move(or at the very least seem to move) slightly slower(aka hindrance). It's pretty much similar to Brian's intestines speeding up zombie movement, barely noticable.
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@Gay_Police_Dept said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2215605#Comment_2215605
Yeah, but plague has to puke on stuff. Zombies spawn just by playing as Nemesis, you don't have to do anything at all.
Yes, but on the other hand, Zombies are never where you want them to be, they just happen to be on the right place at the right time sometimes. The only way to get them somewhere else is killing them if they are in a dead zone. I've spend 3 minutes with a friend leading all the zombies into a massive dead zone and they are essentially useless for Nemesis at that point. They have a bonus that they can be where you need them to be.
Plague can always infect what she wants to infect.
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I think his zombies are underrated. You dont hear them if they are around a corner, meaning if you're injured and infected, you're downed.
Their AI need a bit better pathfinding, instead of trying to go for the closest distance(causing them to get stuck) going for the better route(taking slightly more time and distance, but never getting stuck).
But even with their mediocre AI right now, they do make Nemesis much more powerful than some people realize.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2216708#Comment_2216708
Yup it isn't getting fixed and I want to have fun again so why fight it the sweats showed me the error of playing killer don't want the money I spent on the game to go to waste
Ah yes, because your money is being wasted if you get outmatched. You still play the game, you still play the content, even if the content you play isnt what you enjoy. You're essentially "wasting" other peoples money because you played against people who disagree with you on the way the game needs to be played.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2215414#Comment_2215414
"Yes, and that only sucks if all the survivors are at equal skill. Being able to connect loops near perfectly is tough". Speak for yourself, in my opinion, it is basic survivor skill to be able to connect one loop to another. especially safe loops.
"Being a killer isnt about mindlessly chasing 1 survivor untill they are down, its about micromanaging. Survivors dont have to really deal with micromanaging, instead survivors have to bruteforce their objective."
I understand this, but Haddonfield has many floors, many back alley ways and is quite deceptively large from one side to another. Micro managing many survivors is very difficult when survivors are spilt up. you should try micro managing Haddonfield with bubba or vast majority of killers. I think you'll find it quite challenging. Haddonfield is one of those maps is more in survivor control to lose rather than it is for killer to "out skill".
"Speak for yourself, in my opinion, it is basic survivor skill to be able to connect one loop to another. especially safe loops."
Note how I said PERFECTLY. Connecting loops together normally isnt really that strong. Connecting them perfectly is extremely strong.
"but Haddonfield has many floors, many back alley ways and is quite deceptively large from one side to another"
It's only 2 floors, they are essentially reversed basements. But instead of only 1 way out and many ways in, it has 1 way in and many ways out. So instead of going for the 1 way out at a basement to get easy hits, you go in the 1 way in and leave that way to ensure no one gets back up(and anyone who does gets a hit). Let alone that Haddonfield has 2-3 one man gens, the best any other map has is 2 if you're lucky(coldwind farm, actually). The alleyways arent that rough. You know what does need changing massively in Haddonfield? Pallets next to a generator on the backside, because that's big enough to be an infinite on a 115% killer. Fences that are longer than 16 meters AND fences that are longer than 14 meters that have a corner(you know which ones, they are absolutely disgusting), which is either where it needs to be broken apart, or add a breakable wall(assuming all other things are adressed too). The generators on the middle road absolutely must be reduced to 2 man gens as prove thyself on haddonfield makes them pop in 25 seconds, while the swing sets need to be broken up(seriously, what playground has swingsets so close to each other?). Those are by far the biggest obstacles that require almost no effort for survivors yet consume a ton of time. Which, honestly, is what truly makes Haddonfield a horror. 2 gens that can pop too fast, and 6 locations that only have 1 pallet but can be solo looped for 40 seconds for a single hit. Once you remove 2 fast gens, and 6 insane loops(house of pain included as 1 location obviously), Haddonfield would be so, SO much easier to manage.
Haddonfield giving survivors more control isnt bad, just as certain maps giving killers a bit much control isnt bad either. The problem is certain specific points being powerful enough to last 1 entire normal loop, for the price of 1 pallet and 1 hit.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209694#Comment_2209694
the only issue is crouching away from the hook
No, even crouching to the hook, a decent hag would have at least 2 traps at a sizable distance on your way to the hook. Which is about 10-12 meters on default. Which means the survivor crouches that distance in 9-11 seconds. How much can the Hag move in that same timespan? 40-48 meters. Thats 4 times as fast as a survivor. What other killer is 4 times as fast as a survivor for 10 SECONDS? The other option? Make her teleport directly to you.
So yeah, no ######### traps within 8 meters of a hook.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206068#Comment_2206068
You aren't putting anyone in their place. Tony is just not amazing at arguing. Also, just in case, Killer biased =/= Killer main. You actually sound Survivor biased yourself, this entire response comes off as Survivor tilted, and I can easily demonstrate why.
"Not that often" Well, perhaps that was the case, but that's your experience, and that doesn't account for unhooking attempts.
"overperforming means that simply using it means you have a much higher chance of winning." Yes. DS was a meta perk, using it by bringing it with you and/or doing unsafe rescues with it, hopping in lockers to avoid getting slugged... these all increase your chances of winning by denying the killer pressure because of a crutch perk. Simple.
"Yet, to use it succesfully, you already need the gameknowledge and skill required to have a high chance of winning."
Do you actually believe that hiding behind a perk and using surefire, no skill tactics is "skill"? This is why you're Survivor biased, you think what everyone complained about was "skillful". This is more than enough grounds to dismiss the discussion because it's most likely going to be a waste of time, you WILL clearly think DS was not as bad as a add-on no matter what I say. Survivor = good, Killer = bad.
"Ruin Undying made builds possible that never should be possible(a good example I personally made, was only downing people while they were exposed or could be gen grabbed, while playing Doctor. My perks were Ruin, Undying, Iron Maiden and Make Your Choice, I got a 4k that match because they simply couldnt finish gens, nor break totems)."
Iron Maiden and Make Your Choice? Sounds 100% like a bad team. Sure you weren't at lower ranks OR playing against teams who didn't know how to deal with this build?
And you got results with a Exposed build that works best on Doctor specifically (I see the Iron Maiden synergy)... so this is therefore Ruin and Undying's fault (lmao)...? I don't know how to respond to this.
They also failed to do gens against a M1 Killer with a chase power that's easy to counter with vaccuming? Interesting.
"While DS unbreakable was tough, sure, incredibly annoying and sometimes outright toxic, at the very least survivors had to be good players."
There was absolutely nothing skillful about hiding behind a crutch shield and popping Unbreakable when you got punished for it. Absolutely nothing skillful in the slightest. Period.
"There are still killer perks existing right now, that are much worse to survivors than DS was to killers."
Sure, there's some annoying Killer perks... NOED. And that's pretty much it. Other meta Killer perk are 100% not on the level as pre-nerf DS. Undying originally was, but you're saying "existing right now".
"You aren't putting anyone in their place. Tony is just not amazing at arguing."
That's literally putting someone in their place.
"You actually sound Survivor biased yourself"
Actually, I would call myself killer biased. And yes, if you're biased towards a certain role, you pretty much play that role most. I just call out bullshit mechanics on either side, and if someone is defending very basic mechanics that are easy to counter. Sometimes I slightly agree with them, but as long as certain killer mechanics are in the game as they are now(Spirit and Nurse for example), they cannot possibly touch certain survivor mechanics. Weaker killers are being punished on mechanics that help survivors face stronger killers. So I'd say I love playing devils advocate. I've defended Tombstone Myers more than plenty against people saying its making him an S tier killer, for example. Its just a case of "I disagree more with you than I agree with you".
"these all increase your chances of winning by denying the killer pressure because of a crutch perk. Simple."
But that increase was not significant enough to be overperforming. Strong survivor perks have a place in this game just as much as strong killer perks have. An overperforming perk, would lead into guarantueeing 55% of the survivors escaping whenever its being used. There is no perk even close to that, considering most killers had 2k's or higher. The average escape rate was below 45% even, even with DS included. Meaning killers across the board had plenty of resources to deal with DS, making DS actually just a very annoying, but strong perk to deal with. Not a perk that made survivors overperform.
"Sure you weren't at lower ranks OR playing against teams who didn't know how to deal with this build?"
All rank 1, all 1000+ hours. 2 duo's. Ruin Undying back then simply was too easy to defend. So they were forced to work on gens, which I could easily bully them off. Doc's basekit can interfere too easily with totem cleansing and totems always fully reset. Old Undying was simply too powerful. They didnt know I was only downing them when they were exposed or if I could grab them, once they were all hooked once, they mainly remained injured and grabbing back then wasnt as scuffed as it is today. Again, old Ruin Undying was terrifyingly powerful with no skill needed.
"And you got results with a Exposed build that works best on Doctor specifically (I see the Iron Maiden synergy)... so this is therefore Ruin and Undying's fault (lmao)...?"
Again, you're forgetting that I was only hitting them when they were exposed OR grab them. I wasnt downing them if they were injured and in hitting range. I wasnt injuring them. I waited untill they were exposed OR if I could grab. Now, what perks today allow you to do such a limiting challenge? None, its a dumb challenge, but I could do it, because of Ruin Undying basically allowing me to let the game continue long enough for survivors to get fatiqued. The length of this game? 35 minutes. If it wasnt for Ruin Undying, I would have lost around 10 minutes for doing an absolutely dumb challenge.
"They also failed to do gens against a M1 Killer with a chase power that's easy to counter with vaccuming? Interesting."
Again, Ruin and Old Undying. Aura's if they started cleansing, spawns being slightly decent, and they couldnt keep touching gens because I would be able to grab. It was either push gens and be grabbed, or do a totem and be grabbed. All I needed to do was interrupt the totem guy every 10 seconds while they needed 3 people on the gens if they wanted to make progress, let alone that Madness T3 applied to everyone at the same time, which is 12 seconds of free regression. Impossible challenge to do today, not with old Undying.
"There was absolutely nothing skillful about hiding behind a crutch shield and popping Unbreakable when you got punished for it. Absolutely nothing skillful in the slightest. Period."
And nothing skillfull about interrupting a totem every 10 seconds while keeping the nearest 4-5 generators pushed. Nor was there anything really skillful about Pop being able to finish an entire chase and a half before removing 25%. Nor is there anything really skillful about using map offerings with uncleansable totems and bringing Ruin Undying, which, made Ruin Undying even worse than it already is(let alone Noed). Or Mori's before nerf being able to literally remove a survivor at no cost. Or, you know, old Dying Light that made the original DS look like a peasant?
And sure, it might lack skill, but it takes up a perk slot, both took up a perk slot. They were ANNOYING at best, extremely annoying. So what? There is plenty of perks and abilities like that, let alone addons. Topknot, Tombstone Piece, Irihead(which allowed mass slugging with absolutely no skill needed to achieve that, none, period). PH getting the absolute easiest hits and the easiest tunneling. Again, I can keep going. There is a lot of things on killer sides that causes a killer to need little to no skill. DS shielding you only worked if you were being ignored. Again, IT WAS ANNOYING, BUT NOT BROKEN. Does that mean it didnt need a change? NO, ofcourse not. Just like many, MANY perks still need a change, just to make the experience for both survivors and killers better. What matters is that the devs started listening that things need to be fun to face aswell. Freddy's nerf was mostly about it not being fun to face. DS's nerf was mostly about it not being fun to face(although, they could buff the timer now, as it instantly disappears after pretty much doing anything). Just as gen regression perks need to be reworked to no longer stack together, while being individually powerful enough as compensation(aka, working similar to exhaustion perks, at that point, pop could even be buffed to 30%, while surge can be boosted to 10%, as long as they would no longer stack).
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@Brambles5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205565#Comment_2205565
「She wasnt super popular untill after the Billy nerf though」
She was popular before the Billy nerf🙄Huntress was the 3th of killer pick rates by official poll (2019). ※red rank only ⇒ 4th
I wish Billy nerf had been only an add-on like Huntress and Spirit.
I mean, I can be 4th in a 100 man marathon if 96 of the participants are barely used.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205819#Comment_2205819
I would considering on drawing these loops in MS paint but i decided against it. there are 6 houses in haddonfield not including Myers house which are completed random in placement. one of the houses is famous house of pain. It usually spawns on top-right corner of the map or middle-left corner of Myers house. 2 of houses feature a unsafe pallet on north side of the house and a closed garage with white walls and a car connected to a wall with a safe pallet. The other 3 houses you can enter. I am not going go in detail on each of these individual houses, but on top floor, there are 8 windows and 4 of them are always open. staircase facing window is one of the windows, its strong window but its weaker one of the two. The window i am thinking of is a window that does not have adjacent balcony and just spawns in the center with no other direction or drop-off point. for the ranged killers, those windows can be infinities if they do not get bloodlust. Those windows are so strong to the point they even counter spirit's phase walk.
The unsafe pallet connected to the houses with a car in one-direction was not the pallet i was describing. I was describing the pallet in the houses you cannot enter. as mentioned at the top, its kinda like a hawkin-type loop where you drop north pallet first, get the killer to bloodlust 1-2 than drop ultra-safe pallet and camp it when the killer is in bloodlust 1-3.
in case you don't understand what i am talking about. i went to find a video of haddonfield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAgkLqs9Ct0
The loop i am describing is 3:00. I don't know what to really say. its just one those 5 gen chase maps for survivor if you understand how each of the loops connects to one another. he used the pallets in the inverse order.
"The loop i am describing is 3:00. I don't know what to really say. its just one those 5 gen chase maps for survivor if you understand how each of the loops connects to one another. he used the pallets in the inverse order."
Yes, and that only sucks if all the survivors are at equal skill. Being able to connect loops near perfectly is tough, especially if the survivor is not already in a chase. What Bubba should have done was leave the chase. As Tru3 himself loves to say "its a 1v4, not a 1v1". That goes both ways. Ignoring 3 survivors, means those survivors will do gens. The killer should have realized Tru3 was injured and not close to a generator, while other survivors were working on gens. He could leave Tru3 and bully someone else instead, yet he didnt.
Being a killer isnt about mindlessly chasing 1 survivor untill they are down, its about micromanaging. Survivors dont have to really deal with micromanaging, instead survivors have to bruteforce their objective.
Again, I agree with Haddonfield needing a change, especially the house of pain, but in 99% of the claims that it needs a full rework, I get footage of killers just having a tunnelvision on a 1v1 and forgetting its a 1v4.
Bubba got a relatively strong pallet, but that pallet is no different from the double car pallets on Autohaven, no different from a T wall with a breakable window. That area is now unsafe, its time to bully other survivors and trick them into going to an unsafe area. Haddonfield isnt as terrible as killermains tend to cry about. It's very powerful and it has its issues, it really punishes killers mistakes while barely punishing survivor mistakes. But I have to repeat again, there are maps that barely punish killer mistakes and heavily punish survivor mistakes aswell. All it means is that a killer has less room for mistakes. Which sucks, sure, but its only 1 out of 2 maps that forces killers to think more about their actions.
Which kinda is an argument of "git gud" I guess, but the same can be said towards survivors who complain about Hawkins.
Because, unless its 1 survivor vs 1 killer, there are still other survivors available. You never, ever, want to chase the strongest survivor first. Nor do you want to ever keep chasing a survivor when gens start flying. These games happen as rarely as 5 gen 4k's happen, and have just as much reason to exist in the game. If 4 survivors die with 5 gens left, survivors screwed up massively. If 0 survivors are hooked with 5 gens done, the killer screwed up massively. Regardless of maps, perks, items or addons being used.
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@Lliart said:
Okay, predate, tony, keep on topic here. This is about the twins, not perks. You wanna complain about perks do it in another forum.
I mean, its all connected to the original. Its a thread, the thread went from twins to perks. Thats how threads work, they are a tangent and go to related things.
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@Lord_Tony said:
"DS Unbreakable was nowhere near Ruin Undying for example"
you're forgetting the fact the killer is SUPPOSE to be stronger than survivor.
Survivors still cannot remove the killer from play. So killers are still stronger regardless.
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My vision on this ban system is that it's more like a DC penalty if you get consistent enough reports. Because lets be honest, people who will report 90% of the players they play against will obviously not weigh as much as players who only report once every 20 matches.
The system will definitely start ignoring spammers. Let alone that it will definitely compare you to the average player in terms of reports and it will look at the timespan between games.
It's not like this system will be using player input to actively ban people, it will use player input to help filter.
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I think I thought of a decent hex perk actually:
Hex: Bone Voyage
Cleansing this Hex revives all totems(as dull, hex totems gone are still gone forever), places all totems randomly on the map as if the map just started. If its the first totem to be cleansed, adds 3 dull totems and resets itself(bypassing Undying ofcourse, which can be repeated untill all totem spots are filled).
This totem could make hex builds a potential living hell, without actually making hexes themselves broken. It would give more use to Undying, while also making Thrill potentially the strongest hex protection in the game, gives survivors more reason to do dull totems before they dare touch a hex totem as if they found 2 hex totems at the same time, it could potentially mean their discovered totem disappears and moves to another spot. The danger, ofcourse, is that a well hidden hex might put out in the open. Other than that, it's actually a hex you want to be cleansed.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
Title. People are learning to play him now that he isn't buggy and doesn't have ankle cam. As the Killer plyers get better with him, Survivors will start getting brutally crushed and eventually he will be as hated as any other common, reasonably-strong Killer.
This is how the DbD gameplay cycle goes:
- Killer comes out and is trash-tier
- Killer gets forgotten for six months to a year
- Killer gets buffed
- Killer players start playing and get good.
- Survivors decide they hate the Killer because Survivors can't stand losing. Killer gets nerfed and is never played again.
- Another old Killer gets buffed back to relevance and a new Trash Tier Killer is released or created from overnerfing.
- Repeat step 1
"trash tier killer"
didnt realize PH, DS, Oni, Plague, Legion, Spirit, Pig, Huntress, Doctor, Nurse, Billy, Myers, Blight, Trapper and Twins were trash tier on release.
Twins took time to learn, as she has a very unique ability that makes her the only killer who can have area pressure on 2 seperate positions of the map. The only way to have pressure on seperate positions of the map is running Ruin and having survivors hooked across the map.
Blight, while having terrible POV, was far from trash. Annoying to play, sure, but trash? Never. Billy, well, never trash.
Trapper, sure, now he might be considered quite trashy, but back in the day when the only way infinites could be prevented by traps? Trapper was the god of the original trio back then.
Doctor, again, not trash. He became relatively trash when more big maps outside swamp were released. But he was one of the stronger killers.
Plague, well, still is probably one of the most reliable killers to get 4k's with consistently.
PH was literally god tier that he needed 3 nerfs in a relatively short time to counter the very toxic playstyles that people used on him.
Deathslinger, while he has relatively weak mappressure, his 1v1 has always been strong enough to counter that weakness on the vast majority of maps, and, yknow, otherwise can use perks to compensate for that weakness or make his strength even stronger.
Oni, never been trash.
Legion, absolute god on release.
Spirit, never been bad, even gained buffs she needed at the time to deal with certain maps, but honestly, those buffs can be fully reverted at the moment.
Pig, still isnt even close to trash, the worst alteration is that after the 5th gen, her traps become totally worthless(they should at least block the exit gate temporarily when hit/downed to allow a pick up, getting the same use as Victor), but she's far from trash.
Nurse, never been trash, arguably still too powerful for the current state of the game, never been in a state where she didnt absolutely dominate.
Huntress, godtier on release.
Myers, also godtier on release. He has been the first killer to be gutted. Yes, that's how powerful Myers was. He was so powerful he needed to be gutted before they even touched Nurse or Huntress(who, may I remind you, could use Tinkerer with her addons to basically be what Plague is today).
I think it's actually due to the fact that killers have been godlike on release, that the devs are too scared to put a new killer in the game without making them weak enough to actually have counterplay. I'd pretty much guarantee you, that the Resident Evil killer will be underpowered on the PTB. Which is actually better than overpowered, because when a killer is underpowered, their flaws are shown more consistently, but when a killer is overpowered, its hard to locate what exactly makes them overpowered. Is it just their ability, their range, their addons, a combination of both, certain perks having an unexpected effect, etc. Yet, when they are underpowered, its very easy to tell if its due to a lack of range, speed, power etc. Trickster, while still might need some tiny tweaks now, only really needed his spread removed and his initial speeds upped. The lacaration decay timer being increased was just a bonus.
So I am honestly hoping the killer gets released in a very disappointing state, because on the long term, he or she will be a very consistent, useful and balanced killer.
"but they cant compete in tournaments" So? What tournaments has Behaviour launched that makes this game a tournament game? Tournaments have only been hosted by 3rd party people. DBD is not a tournament game.
"but it is being balanced like one" Is it tho? Is it really? Because they have altered a LOT, yet, how much did the tournament settings change? If it was being balanced like a tournament, you would expect more variety. This game needs balancing for the purpose of not being too much in favor of any side, but it doesnt need to be balanced towards tournaments. People play this game casually a lot more than they play it competitively. Balancing the game purely for competitive reasons will just make players disappear from this game.
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@JimboMason said:
Two of the devs referred to Iconic characters, re7 and re8 are too recent to hit that status yet, maybe a map from one of the newer games?
Iconic: "widely recognized and well-established"
RE7 and RE8 are both iconic games. Time has nothing to do with a game being iconic. RE is an iconic series. Lady D's shadow is recognisable enough for people to assume Resident Evil. Lady D was an icon before release.
So no, referring to an iconic character doesnt exclude RE7 or RE8.
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@Ohnoes said:
The option to COME BACK to a match should be there. I've had several wins as killer taken from me plus DC penalty as I went to get the last survivor. Two today actually.
I mean, at what cost? They need to seriously give a buff to survivors who come back to compensate for the time they were gone. As a 3v1 situation against good killers, means 1 person will be constantly on the hook, 1 in chase, and 1 constantly unhooking.
How would you compensate for that?
At best, after a DC, the remaining survivors should get some buff if there are still more than 3 gens left(or, yknow, buff survivors in general if someone dies before 2 gens are finished, once 1 survivor is dead, it can be near impossible to finish gens against a good killer, giving a reason to not tunnel). But the same can be said to reward the killer if there is 1 dead/dc when there are only 2 gens left.