Power_Guy
Power_Guy
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325148#Comment_2325148
Or the devs didn't make the challenge equal and it is unfairly difficult on survivor.
The OP said nothing about the challenge?
Don't get me wrong; the event is badly lopsided, and that Killer WAS toxic in chat (supposedly).
But claiming the Killer is 'tryhard' because they played a specific offering & expected him to farm is basically saying they expected him to read their mind and do what they want. They're saying their want to farm makes the Killer the villain for not doing so.
IE: To them, he was 'tryhard' for not reading their minds, and not suspending the actual goal of the game to cater to their want to farm. Which is just more Survivor main 'Do what we say, peasant' attitude.
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Ah yes, because Killers not reading Survivor's minds & trying to play the game normally are now 'tryhard'.
Because all that matters is what Survivors want, and Killers are expected to know exactly what that is, across the entire Survivor main playerbase, 4 times a match.
It's like Survivor mains really think Killer players are paid actors meant to enhance their own fun no matter what.
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Here we go with more 'The Killer is toxic if they try to win in a way Survivors don't approve of' posts.
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@van9684 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/262402/toxicity-during-the-event
You’d do it anyway. All killers care about is 4K rounds where they’re only one having fun, at any cost. Trust me, we know. Nice post though.
Stop attacking people, dude; You're showing the toxicity in this community. Be better than that.
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@InsatiableMop said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323952#Comment_2323952
So this game is "balanced" as a swf vs a killer so all arguments about survivor sidedness only apply to swf not brain dead solo queue. Also, some of the most prevalent killer mains in this community have said recently that there is a certain pig combo of addons that needs something done about it because it will kill at least 1 person in a game without you doing anything past giving them their first hat and is unbalanced. Otzdarva literally has a whole video on why its broken and needs adjustment and he's better than 99% of the killer mains that post on this forum.
So, because there's an addon that will get at least 1 kill; it's broken? Her power, which should have a chance of killing, is OP if it gets a kill?
That's...kind of the Survivor main mentality in a nutshell, on these forums. 🤔
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@van9684 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/262379/what-is-the-personal-benefit
Toxic killers taking game hostage for their own twisted fun. Nothing new, just balloons and sound effects. Same behaviors.
Uh-huh. Sure. 🙄
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No.
- Pets would be silly. They don't fit in.
- They would be OP in some situations
- I would never play again, if I had to kick a dog or cat.
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@van9684 said:
Yep. They’re peak level entitled. It’s horrible. I thought maybe they’d be more fun since it’s an event but nope. I’ve had really bad rounds too.
Rofl. The fact that you're calling others entitled while your entire post history is how OP Killers are, and how Killers trying for 4Ks are evil. And how Killers trying to win are ruining the game.
It's as if you think you're...What's the word? Oh yes; 'entitled' to an escape. Huh. 🤔
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323573#Comment_2323573
For some killers a "bully squad" is a team that does gens and doesnt give them a free 4k.
For some Survivors, a 'toxic killer' is one who does not give a free escape, or dares to spend 0.5 seconds next to a hooked Survivor, or does not give away free unhooks, or kicks gens, or plays any hated Killer...The list really goes on.
@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323637#Comment_2323637
Yea you're supposed to be able to have more fun than I do in the game... got it. So yea don't get mad when someone runs you for 5 gens and flick a flashlight in your face at every pallet drop for tunneling down the first survivor. They're probably doing it because you did something toxic first. This community getting better starts with the community. It really needs to start with killers playing in a fair and sportsmanlike manner then you'll probably see a lot less toxic survivors.
Ah yes, the classic Survivor excuse 'If a Survivor was toxic, you probably deserved it'. Because Survivors can do no wrong, and everything is a Killer's fault, so sayeth the Survivor's Handbook 2nd Ed.
Why do Survivors still think 'Killers killed me' is somehow toxic? This is our goal. We're not here to ask you if you had enough fun.
It's like the DBD community, by large, has 0 clue how PvP games work. 'That Killer removed me from the game before I felt like I played enough! HOW TOXIC!'
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@KA149108 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207706#Comment_2207706
Funny how no one complains about Hags lunge, Ghostfaces's lunge. Freddy has a stupid lunge and you wont change my mind.
Every Killer has the same lunge distance. Freddy's looks longer because his smaller frame has to cover the same distance as someone like Trapper, who's huge.
Anyone's subjective experience literally has nothing to do with it. 'It looks longer' does not trump that the math puts it at the same distance.
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Ah yes; because it's toxic if Killers win in any non-Survivor Approved(tm) way. This includes, but is not limited to: Tunneling, camping, slugging, patrolling a 3 gen, using non-Approved perks, using non-Approved Killers, dodging flashlight saves, avoiding pallet stuns, and more!
Ask a Survivor if playing Killer is right for you!
(Playing Killer is not for everyone. Don't play Killer if you have a heart condition, or if you expect to win. Winning is strictly not Survivor Approved)
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Because many Survivors claim any Killer who shortens loops are 'OP'.
Many Survivors would not be happy until infinites are back in the game, because anything less is 'unhealthy' for the game. 😁
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Mine is friends only due to all the 💩 that post crap like '-rep, camped'.
I mean, let's be honest; it really means '-rep, I lost & need an excuse for my fragile ego' but it's still annoying to delete the comments over and over again.
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@Munqaxus said:
Here is a definition of tunneling.
Tunneling /v/ - When a killer player stays close enough to a hooked survivor player so they have the ability to return to the hooked survivor player the moment that player is unhooked with the intention of exclusively chasing, downing and hooking the same survivor player, that was hooked previously, before that survivor player is able to perform any other actions with the intention of removing that survivor player from the game or reducing the number of hook states that survivor has.
So basically 'When the Killer plays optimally instead of giving Survivors as many health states a possible, as per the Survivor handbook 4th Edition'.
See, Tunneling only HAS a definition because salty Survivors GAVE it a definition, and then started screaming that Killers can't do that, based on nothing more than their own demands and views on how the game SHOULD be played.
But here's a funny thing; most those 'honorable' rules that get made up? They are rules aimed at Killers to make it harder for them to win; spread out hook states (aka not tunneling), allow Survivors to heal (again; not tunneling), pick up Survivors right away (aka; don't slug), chase the first Survivor you see (don't camp), promptly move away from hooks (don't camp), always give final Survivor the hatch/gate...
It's all made up bunk designed to give Survivors easier wins by circumscribing Killer player agency behind endless rules invented for the sake of 'fair play'. But in this case 'fair play' means 'Stop trying to win'.
You'll notice Survivors aren't given rules like: Don't flashlight stun, don't pallet stun, stop repairing gens if you repair too fast, don't break hooks in front of a Killer, give the Killer a free Kill.
Nope! Only the KILLER is supposed to 'play fair'. And THAT is how I know 'fair play' and 'health of the game' are smoke screens for selfish reasons behind the rules; because NONE OF IT APPLIES TO SURVIVORS.
Survivors are allowed to run META.
Survivors are allowed to SWF.
Survivors are allowed to try to get a 4K escape.
Only Killers are expected to give free unhooks, allow heals, allow a final escape, and need to avoid 'unfair' tactics.
It's a double standard, but no one screaming about it wants to admit that they just want easy wins, and will use fake rules and peer pressure to get their way.
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@Sypherpathic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322214#Comment_2322214
The purpose of a game is entertainment and some might say fun. Or at least, at it's barest, some sense of accomplishment or engagement.
Being on a hook while a killer stares at you or while a killer pretends to 'patrol' a tiny area near the hook when there are three other survivors and a bunch of generators to engage with is not fun or engaging or anything for the person on the hook.
Honestly, I don't think that aligning with the killer's 'goals' should be at the top of the list for how the game is designed. I think that providing an entertaining match for 5 people should be the goal. Since survivors can be removed by some killer behaviors and the opposite is not true, in some arenas, some things should benefit the 4 players playing survivor over the one playing killer - at the very least, the killer cannot be removed before the match completes, so this is something that survivors have to face.
In any case, the discussion isn't about removing players from the match but about giving something to the player that is stuck on hook while a killer does nothing but pay attention to that person on the hook. It happens kind of a lot. I get rewarded for chases, so why not something for keeping the killer's attention (albeit unintentionally), on hook?
I already agreed that Survivors should get BP for 'distracting' a camping Killer, to remove the sting of being camped, and make it so short matches are not so painful.
And there should NOT be some balance based on the fact that Survivors can't remove Killers; this is literally the premise of the game. Survivors hide and use pallets to SLOW DOWN the Killer, not fight back. To claim that is a flaw is to misunderstand what game balance is as a whole,ad to misunderstand this game as a whole.
Also; the Killer HAS to be stronger 1v1 because he has to be as strong as 4 Survivors. If 1 Survivor could be as strong as 1 Killer, than a 4V1 would ALWAYS end in Survivor's favor. So saying the arenas have to favor Survivors is to, again, misunderstand the entire game.
If the Killer has to face 4 people, and the map favors those 4 people over the ONE Killer, then the Killer has almost no chance. We already see that in some maps.
So, again; I agree that Survivors should get BP if a Killer camps.
But in no way whatsoever, should a Killer be punished, because some Survivors think camping is 'unfair' because it eliminates Survivors...In a game where the Killer's goal is to eliminate people!
That's basically saying 'It's unfair (or 'unfun') that the Killer killed me. Punish them.'
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322090#Comment_2322090
You are reacting, you are not thinking.
You agree that allowing one person to completely remove the ability of another person from playing your game is bad game design from a game developers perspective?
No, I don't. Because the Killer's goal is to remove a person from playing the game.
This is how Counter Strike works.
This is how PubG and Fortnite and Apex Legends work.
It's almost like your goal is to avoid being eliminated. *Insert Shocked Pikachu here*
Only people who can't stand losing pretend it's a problem in games where the goal of both, or one, side is to eliminate the other.
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For me, it's when Survivors verbally abuse me in end game chat because I broke their made-up honor system about camping/tunneling/slugging, so I was 'toxic first' and 'deserve it'.
But we all know those types will ALWAYS be vile, and will invent any excuse to blame their target for their own actions.
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@A_Skinny_Legend said:
What? No, these past few updates have been so Iconic. If anything it's something to celebrate and be thankful for.
Anyway, if doomsday ever does arrive for dbd then I have a proposition of changing the game into a shopping dating sim. It'll be called Alive by Moonlight.
You gave Bubba the wrong gift! *Sad chainsaw noises*
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321936#Comment_2321936
The person playing killer makes the decision to camp. That person has decided to remove another person's ability to play the game for 2 minutes plus the amount of time it took to get into a match.
The person that has decided to remove another person's ability to play the game for, at the minimum of about 7 minutes, does not deserve to be rewarded but does deserve to be punished by whatever is necessary to change that type of behavior. Right now, the punishment is not severe enough.
You don't seem to understand that the Killer's goal is to remove everyone from the match. All you can focus on is HOW they did it, say you don't approve, and demand they be punished for not doing it in a Survivor Approved(tm) way.
Sorry, but you're wrong. The Killer does not deserve to be punished because they did not let Survivors get an unhook, or did not chase the first survivor they saw like a brainless AI NPC.
You don't get to decide what are fair ways, times, or methods to which the Killer has to adhere too, or face justice.
So again, no. No, there should not be a BP punishment, or ANY punishment, for camping/tunneling/slugging, just because you don't approve of it. That's not how balance works. That's not how player agency works.
Give the hooked Survivor BP for being camped, so the match is not a total waste for them. That's all.
Those screaming for 'punishments' are saying 'Force Killers to play by my pre-approved methods, regardless of circumstances. I demand my fake rules be followed!'
But game balance does not work like that, sorry. The opposing team does not get to decide how their opponent plays, because the opposing team, wanting to win, will always have a bias in those rules.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321863#Comment_2321863
Exactly. Aside from EGC, a killer is rewarded for playing poorly and for ruining another players experience by camping.
Read page 2, buddy. Camping punishes itself, and SURVIVORS reward it by going TOWARDS the camping killer instead of doing gens.
I love this mindset of 'Camping is rewarded by Killers!'. it's 100% WRONG. Survivors reward it by walking into the waiting arms of the thing trying to find them, then whine that Killers are being unfair over what is, at it's core, bad SURVIVOR play.
If Survivors do gens instead of walk towards a camping Killer; the Killer gets ONE kill before 3-5 gens pop. How is that not punishment?
Oh right; because the Killer got an 'unfair kill'. 🙄 I will go blind if I roll my eyes any harder.
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@TimeOutTimmy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321680#Comment_2321680
If 4 survivors are still in the game, and you choose to go back to the hook... you can't complain about the rate that gens get done. You are potentially leaving 2 survivors to sit uninterrupted.
Going back to the hook is easy. I run kindred in every game... 95% of killers proxy camp the hook. Meanwhile everyone is sitting on a gen, with no pressure.
And that is how camping punishes itself. Thank you for seeing that. You hit on EXACTLY why camping does not need some BS extra punishment.
I never said camping is an 'I win' tactic. Nor did I say Survivors on gens should be punished while a Killer camps.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321786#Comment_2321786
When you are causing another player to not be able to play a game for 2 minutes, plus queue time, then yes, camping does need justification. Why do you think this type of behavior does not need justification?
The justification is that the Killer is trying to kill you. There; justified. Not the Killer's fault you seem to think we have to do it as slowly and inefficiently as possible under some made up honor system.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321736#Comment_2321736
So your reasoning is that Survivor #2 and #3 are giving you a far easier chase target than you would normally get, yet you would prefer and sit in front of a hooked survivor and camp them?
I mean think about it, if Survivor #2 and #3 weren't sitting out in the open, then you would have to find Survivor #2 and Survivor #3, then start a chase.
In your scenario, Survivor #2 and #3 and letting you being a chase right off the bat instead of having to search for someone.
How does this justify camping?
It does not need justifying.
Killer's don't need your permission, or need to write Survivors an essay on why they need to camp, to get permission to do so.
They also don't have to chase Survivors just because they see them, like you seem to think.
If I see a Survivor slinking around; a good bet is that his friend is ALSO nearby. That's 3 of 4 people around the hook. 3 of 4 people not doing gens.
Why the hell would I walk away from the hook at that point? Because Survivors demand I do so? Sorry, but I'm not a bloody AI; I don't have to do what you want, nor give you chances for unhooks. You failed to save your friend when you showed yourself to me. As a reasoning human being, I cam be rather sure you're not alone. I'll try to hit you, but I won't bail on the hook because you demand I 'play fair'.
You're trying to win, and I'm trying to win. You don't get to decide how, or when, I get to try killing Survivors. You don't get to demand I be punished because you don't like how I went about winning.
I'm your opponent; if you can't accept that your opponent will try their best to win, then maybe you need to rethink how PvP games work. Not trying to be insulting, but allot of 'Punish camping!' threads boil down to people not understanding that Killers can try just as hard as Survivors to win.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321716#Comment_2321716
Yes, the killer does need to be punished for camping. It stunts the ability of the killer to improve in skill and it actively causes a player to not be able to play the game.
If a survivor is camping nearby and the Killer isn't chasing the survivor, then the killer is intentionally camping. Either the killer sees the survivor and chases him or the killer doesn't see the survivor and leaves the area? Can you think of another reason why a killer would just stay around a hooked survivor?
I can think of how it would be abused:
Survivor #4 is hooked. #3 and #2 stand out in the open, where the Killer can see them, but too far away to be chased easily.
Now the Killer has to decide between a punishment, or giving up a free unhook.
Stop with this BS. It was tried with a slowed/paused Struggle Timer back in the day, and Survivors abused it EXACTLY how I just described.
Just because you dislike camping does not mean it needs a punishment to force Killers to conform to your made up rules. Rewarding the Survivor is enough.
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@Munqaxus said:
I think it should go further. If a killer is within 32 meters of a hooked survivor, EGC isn't active and the killer isn't in a chase, every 10 seconds, the survivor gets 1000 bps and the killer loses 1000 bps.
No. The Killer does not need to be punished. Survivors would abuse this by camping nearby to force the Killer to camp.
People need to stop trying to invent punishments for petty reasons.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320226#Comment_2320226
Yep for some reason it's always someone else's fault.
It's your decision to go back to the hook after someone is unhooked.
Either you are already close enough to see both Survivors running away or hiding, or you are 50/50'ing whether you find the unhooked or the unhooker with it being more likely you find the unhooked because of sound and blood.
The Killer makes this decision, putting the blame on the unhooker for not being able to find them is completely assinine.
'It's your choice to go back to the hook'. #########?
HALF THE TEAM is around that hook; the unhooked, and an unhooker. Sometimes 3 people are there, for various reasons.
Am I supposed to ignore the hook because I might look like a meany-face for going back? 😂
And let's say 2 or 3 gens popped in that first chase; a not uncommon result, these days. Am I now not supposed to go after the wounded prey that I only need to hit once, because Survivors think it's mean to 'tunnel'? Yet more 'The Killer is not allowed to try winning' propaganda.
And it's THAT mindset, that the Killer has to play 'honorably' according to made up rules, that sees Survivors using the excuse 'The Killer played toxic, so I can be toxic back in chat' also known as 'He started it!'.
And yes; the mindset, if not the situation, goes both ways; Killers see Survivors do something they SUBJECTIVELY consider 'toxic' and use it as an excuse to abuse people in the chat.
And that mindset is also why you see so many threads about how 'unfair' or 'toxic' camping/slugging/tunneling/perk/Killer are; it's people trying to force their SUBJECTIVE rules onto the game as golden law, while having 0 idea what balance is.
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I honestly agree with this. Something like a 'Distraction' bonus, because the Killer is so fascinated by the Survivor on the hook that he's forgetting to do his duty to hunt down the rest. And it encourages people to stop wussing out on first hook.
I also, however, think that anyone who gets hooked for the first time within, say 3 minutes of match start, should LOSE BP if they try to kobe, then fail every 2nd stage skillcheck. Because, at that point, it's obvious they are wussing out & screwing over their team.
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Survivor queues are so long because Killers have to deal with SWF bully squads and verbal abuse. And whenever a perk/addon is 'slightly too strong' for Killers, it's nerfed a day later.
But Survivors get to keep their perks/addons for 2+ years before nerfs. Just look at keys & moris; Survivors dislike moris, they are nerfed ASAP. But keys? 'We are working on it...someday. Oh, have a Franklin's nerf so you don't lose your insta-win keys anymore. It was a nerf with keys IN it, so it counts, right?'.
So less Killers are playing, since their tactics and items get nerfed, they get bullied, and we get screamed at in end game chat for 'camping' and 'tunneling'. (Because remember, kids; Killers are not allowed to try winning! Trying to win as a Killer is 'toxic' and 'unhealthy'!) And this means Survivors can't find matches.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320290#Comment_2320290
It's not unhealthy that a killer who made a mind game that would otherwise be a down can have their smart play erased by the push of a button? Or a survivor who worked their butt off all game was able to lead the killer on chases can have their effort eliminated by the lighting of a totem? Thanks for totally not understanding all my claims while the majority of the community wants these perks changed. They reward players for making mistakes. That's why they need to be changed why should players be babysat for making mistakes?
The fact that you think the very few people who agreed with you are a 'majority' is kind of silly.
Also, the part you keep ignoring about NoED, because it does not fit your 'NoED is unhealthy' narrative, is that Survivors can turn it off before it ever activates. You just say 'But what if they can't?' and think that makes you right.
You also ignore that the Killer plays with 3 perks for the entire match, banking on the Risk Vs Reward playstyle of NoED, to clean up in the endgame. Instead, you pretend the Killer is strong through the whole match, or that Survivors are punished for playing well.
Because speaking the truth about NoED does not fit your narrative. You just want people to think It's broken and in need of a change because you, personally, don't like it.
But all those people agreeing with you? They are not the majority. They are a vocal minority. And most of them are pretty obvious about how they just want to nerf Killers for easier Survivor matches.
But keep pretending 'the majority' agrees with you. It's as false as your arguments about how 'unhealthy' NoED is.
Once again; Your opinions on second chance perks are SUBJECTIVE. The fact that you ignore those parts of the perk's balance that don't fit your narrative shows how dishonest your argument is. And if your argument is built on a false narrative, then how can people believe it?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320277#Comment_2320277
So the same as covering their mistakes?
I don't get the question. Those perks can cover mistakes. This does not make them 'unhealthy'.
You're personal opinion on second chance perks does not make those perks objectively bad for the game. And you've given no real evidence or arguments to make anyone think these perks are a problem for anyone but people who subjectively dislike them.
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@ImTooooomingggggg said:
I think they should consider a timer mechanic of some sort around this to punish a full on face camping killer. Such as while killer is within 5-10 meter radius of the hooked person with no other survivors present, the hook timer goes half speed or stops entirely. Could make this timer go away after say 2 or 3 gens left to prevent early on face camps on first hook.
This way survivors running a killer around a hook still decreases timer as normal while also discouraging a killer from hook camping for no reason.
No. This was tried. Survivors would wait in the open outside the 'Timer Range' and force Killers to either camp (and thus give 1 Survivor infinite time to do gens), or the Killer would have to commit to a chase & let the second Survivor get a free unhook.
Survivors need to stop asking for 'fixes' to a problem that does not exist. Especially 'fixes' that are so blatantly abuseable.
Camping is a tactic. Tunneling is a tactic. So is slugging.
So, again; No.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320225#Comment_2320225
So you believe both of them are fine? Even if it denies a hit to a killer or downs the survivor who'd been a team player all game?
They do what they are meant to do; help players who are falling behind.
What do you THINK Dead Hard is supposed to do? make flowers and lollipops? It denies a hit.
NoED is SUPPOSED to stay hidden all game until it activates, if it could be cleaned on ONE totem before endgame, it would be utterly garbage. The point of totems is to be an unknown threat that hangs over Survivor's heads and forces them to totem hunt. This was the answer to two things:
- Killers complaining about gen speeds
- Survivors complaining they had nothing to do but fix gens.
Only now Survivors are saying 'Doing gens is boring! But I don't want to do bones! Hex perks are unhealthy! Let me hold E on a gen! But give me something else to do! BUT NOT BONES!'
It's almost like Survivor mains true goal is to just nerf Killers into not being a threat, because even when being given what they wanted (a second objective), they claim it's 'unhealthy' or 'OP' because it ALSO gave Killers power.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320163#Comment_2320163
NOED is a Second Chance perk. If the killer fails to finish his objective and gets outperformed he can have a perk to cover his mistake. It's the same as DH where your mistake for playing poorly can be erased. A killer shouldn't have a perk that can erase his mistake like how DH can erase a survivors mistake. But by your beliefs survivors can't have a second chance perk, but killers should because everything is against them and need things like Ruin base kit. Fun fact this game isn't grossly unbalanced like you make it seem.
I never said the game is broken. You're the one saying the game is 'unhealthy' because of NoED and DH.
And the point of perks is to:
- Support your play style
- Shore up weaknesses in your play style
- Or give you a chance when you make a mistake.
You not liking second chance perks does not make them broken or, as you put in your excuse, 'unhealthy'.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320141#Comment_2320141
NOED should be altered into a different endgame perk that gains strength from the killer performing well earlier. This way the killer is rewarded for playing well. To prevent moments where he is rewarded despite playing poorly in the early game. And not the chance to be an easy second chance perk. Like NOED and DH currently are designed as. And please stop saying I have no concept of balance.
But if a Killer is playing well, they DO NOT NEED an endgame perk. You're basically invalidating NoED by making it's requirement be the fact that it's not needed.
The point of NoED is a comeback mechanic. The fact that you think it's 'unhealthy' to give the Killer a comeback mechanic shows you just want to nerf the Killer. You're basically saying 'It's unfair that the Killer can get a comback mechanic. A mechanic I CAN TURN OFF AHEAD OF TIME, but I don't wanna!'
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@eleventbh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320022#Comment_2320022
Do you think dead hard is high risk/high reward as well?
Dead Hard has nothing to do with NoED, but yeah, in a vague way.
The risk is that you need to be injured, and you need good timing (which is difficult, due to lag, admittedly).
The reward is that you dodge an attack & get to a new loop/window. This wastes the Killer's limited time & buys your team time to pop gens. Teamwork.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320089#Comment_2320089
To not screw over survivors it shouldn't reward killers for playing poorly. Like how DH screws over killers when survivors play poorly. Both are second chance perks.
You don't seem to get, or maybe don't care, that NoED would be 100% useless if it lit up at the start of a match.
It only works at the end of a match, so it only lights up at the end of a match. This is called 'balance'; that pesky thing that keeps Survivors from having an 'I win' button, no matter how hard they ask for one.
Survivors CAN counter NoED early by cleansing all totems, but the 'balance' (There's that word again!) to that is the additional time spent getting every totem.
This is balanced. It's not unfair. It's no OP. It's not 'unhealthy' or whatever smoke screen Survivors will invent next week to hide the nerfs they want. It. Is. Balanced.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2320062#Comment_2320062
But, all hexes minus NOED start at the beginning so you can have the time and chance to discover them and plan against accordingly.
But NoED does not DO anything early, so why should it be VISIBLE early? Just so Survivors know to cleanse ASAP and ensure it never procs?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319788#Comment_2319788
Oaky so then tell me this imagine. I'm a Nurse. You're with your average Solo Q teammates. I'm able to keep delivering enough pressure but the survivors were able to genuinely do great plays were outplayed me. But, enough pressure can be kept up and simply no time can be spent on bones unless you want to loose. Because you didn't finish a gen or unhook a teammate instead. So the gates are powered all your hard work and effort can be payed off. Then a NOED happened because you couldn't focus on bones. And creates a loose-loose scenarios. And gambled whether there was NOED. Despite the survivors performing great plays. In that scenario is NOED fair? And I'm not a survivor main. And with the other hexes you know that they're in play. And can plan accordingly.
I'd think the Nurse outplayed me, and she took a risk that she could keep NoED protected, and it paid off. They gambled they could keep NoED alive until the end game, and they succeeded.
Heaven forbid a Killer use a High Risk/High Reward perk like NoED and Gasp Be rewarded!
That's simply not allowed, according to Survivor mains! Apparently Killers should never be rewarded for playing well! It's 'unhealthy' for Killers to play well! 🤦♂️
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@Jago said:
I'll never understand why people defend Noed :'D
I'll never understand why Survivors don't simply do bones instead of asking that the game be changed to cater to them wanting 'Gen Simulator 3000'
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319753#Comment_2319753
"90% of Survivor meta perks reward bad play; Adrenalin, Dead Hard, D. Strike; these reward a Survivor for being found and hit or downed. Yet it's not okay for Killers to have ONE perk that activates in the end game? A perk Survivors can turn off" Dude you literally say that because survivors have this killers should have this. It's literally what about these perks that survivors have. That is whataboutism. And that point out had nothing to do with NOED. And there isn't always time when you have the time to do bones. What if your team is under constant pressure like hooks or gens being regressed and you simply have not time to focus on bones. This can punish survivors for working hard and NOED can take that work away. NOED simply needs to be changed to the point where it doesn't seal the fate in these games and not worthless in other times.
So you're saying it's unfair if the Killer pressure Survivors to the point that they can't do totems, so they can't clear NoED?
By that logic; EVERY Hex perk is unfair, because the Killer can pressure Survivors to the point that they can't cleanse it. In fact, Killers HAVE to pressure Survivors to keep totems alive. But clearly Killers doing JUST THAT is 'unhealthy'. 🤦♂️
It's called 'Rewarding The Killer'. But I understand that that's not allowed by Survivor mains. Killers should never tunnel, never camp, never slug, and never, EVER stop Survivors from doing bones. Any time they stop Survivors from doing bones, either the Killer is 'toxic' or the hex used is 'unfair', 'op', or 'unhealthy'.
Your argument is basically 'If the Killer prevents me from cleansing NoED, then NoED is unhealthy'. You're basically saying it's unfair that the Killer, in that situation, outplayed the Survivors & they got punished for losing.
How dare they lose because the Killer was playing well! That's not how DBD works (in the Survivor main mind)! Killers should LOSE when they outplay Survivors! Survivors should always win, even if they don't wanna do bones, or can't do bones! Anything else is 'unhealthy'! It's unhealthy for Survivors to lose! 😂
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Apparently the DC penalty is turned off again...for some reason.
No point in playing a game if you can't play to completion; down one person and they DC, while making excuses as to why it's the Killer's fault.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319708#Comment_2319708
Okay, you just mentioned perks that literally have nothing to do with NOED. Whataboutism is a lazy argument. The changes the main issues of something. While yes there are perks on the survivor side that do reward bad play. And should absolutely be changed mostly Dead Hard. That doesn't mean something still unhealthy on the other side shouldn't be changed.
I pointed out Survivor perks that 'reward bad play', which was your excuse for wanting to remove or change NoED. I was addressing your reasoning for removing NoED. Sorry, that's not 'whataboutism' in the slightest.
NoED is fine. It's not 'unhealthy'. I've noticed lazy Survivors always hide behind that same excuse; the 'health of the game' as reason why Killers should be punished for camping, or tunneling, or slugging. Or why Killer perks should be removed.
But when you look at the theme behind those 'health of the game' arguments, you see the same thread; Survivors who want to bang out gens in sub-5 minutes with no punishment. They want to extend chases, avoid dying, and genrush. They just want to win, and will use 'health of the game' as their smoke screen to nerf Killers into the dirt.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319692#Comment_2319692
But, it's also can reward a killer for playing poorly and can excuse them for mistakes. Like DH. It might be weak but it is still an unhealthy design like Insidious. And there shouldn't be perks with this unhealthy design in mind. And no perk should at the end of the day come down to a guess.
90% of Survivor meta perks reward bad play; Adrenalin, Dead Hard, D. Strike; these reward a Survivor for being found and hit or downed.
Yet it's not okay for Killers to have ONE perk that activates in the end game? A perk Survivors can turn off?
I think by 'unhealthy' you mean 'I don't want to do bones; let me genrush in peace'.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319660#Comment_2319660
I know it's not that strong and an unhealthy design another reason it should be changed.
The whole point of NoED is the threat it has. Risk vs reward:
Do you genrush, and risk being killed in the endgame via NoED? Well, it paid off; the Killer did not bring it!
Do you go looking for totems, which delays leaving, and raises your chances of being seen? Well dang; Killer did not bring it! All that work for nothing.
Or maybe you went looking, and shut down his endgame perk! Well, your risk paid off!
That is the point of NoED. Remove or change it, and Survivors can slam gens with no threat of reprisal in the endgame.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
The only killer perk and killer in need of significant changes that would be a nerf are NOED and Spirit
NoED is fine, the only people who hate it are Survivors who want to rush gens with 0 punishment.
It's a perk you can, LITERALLY, cancel before it ever activates, and yet Survivors are too lazy to even do that.
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@quirky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318785#Comment_2318785
I don't get how you can complain about SWF and gen rushing and that's fine, but us survivors who get maybe 5000 BP a game from being tunneled right out are in the wrong. I don't understand you.
JFC. I'm not complaining about SWF. I'm pointing out it's IN THE GAME AND SURVIVORS USE IT, then THEY complain about Killers using their tactics. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Survivors using every tool they have, then whining when Killers DO THE SAME THING.
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@quirky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318746#Comment_2318746
I don't give a single flying ######### if I win. I just want to play! I know dying is part of the game, but if I'm being tunneled right out before a gen pops, that's not playing now is it?
When you play a PvP game with no respawns; you accept that you may be removed first & fast.
Do you play Counter-Strike and complain if you get shot first?
Do you play PubG or Fortnite and demand the guns be changed because you're the first dead and 'did not get to play'?
You can't remove camping because you want to 'play more' when part of playing the game, in a PvP setting, is the possibility of being eliminated.
That goes double for when gen speeds can be sub-5 minutes; you force the killer to go for 12 hooks, or take away his ability to kill for 2 minutes, or whatever else can be suggested without altering gen speeds, and you are literally removing a Killer's ability to do his objective.
Because the Killer KILLS. I don't get why this is so shocking to Survivors. He does not 'Maybe kill later on, if we let him'.
A Killer's job is not to ask you if you had 'enough fun for me to Kill you now, please?'
I don't get why Killers doing their goal as efficiently as Survivors is so shocking.
That's the 'Only I can win' energy I'm talking about; Survivors bang out gens while running meta in SWF groups, then cry if they get camped. Only THEY can play optimally. Killers have to avoid camping, tunneling, slugging, using <insert perk here>, using <insert Killer here>. Because they're toxic/unfair/unfun/for noobs/ruining the game/whatever BS can be made up.
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@quirky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318702#Comment_2318702
All I'm saying is I don't see the point in camping or tunneling. It only happens to be at 5 gens. I get face camping when the gates are open, I don't get upset, but when there are so many gens left. Why?
Because the Killer wants to slow down gens.
The Killer has no idea if Survivors are all doing 1 gen, or if 3 separate gens are about to pop after his ONE chase.
And given a solo gen, done alone, with no items, can take 80 seconds, and a chase can easily take 80 seconds; they want to remove one player before 3/5ths of the objectives pop.
The point being; it's a valid tactic. Same as meta perks and SWF groups. The people complaining, even if they're not aware of it, are sending the message 'It's only okay if I win' because they want to change/punish/remove Killer tactics while they keep running meta SWF groups.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318683#Comment_2318683
What do you mean? It sounds like you only read complaints from survivors? Take a look at these forums, there are just as much complaints from killers than from survivors.
And please, stop looking at survivors like they are all the same person.
This thread is about camping and tunneling; other complaints don't matter.
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about two accepted Killer tactics, while the people who do such complaints are also the first to say Killers have to suck it up when they run into 4-man SWF squads, because it's part of the game.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
It is every game apart from the 2-3 killers who are running Devour, and I'm not even exaggerating. Game after game after game, nothing but camping and tunneling. It's miserable and I don't blame my teammates when they DC.
This is EXACTLY what I mean.
Killer uses tactics to win? 'I don't blame people for DCing'.
But what if the Killer is tired of In It To Win It SWF squads? Do they get to DC? Nope! They need to suck it up because SWF is part of the game!
(For the record, all DCing is bad & ruins the game. I'm just making a point)