PetTheDoggo
PetTheDoggo
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^ You don't need any offering for it, just change settings.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003031#Comment_4003031
You will finish the Rift before the Milestones, or at least that is my experience. Probably because I play both sides.
Looking over this I saw on the wiki the last rift has 4500 rift fragments (45 levels) in the last Rift Pass Quest Pool.
if thats true then we have even more points this season, but its taking longer cause we have had less event so far?You will finish the Rift before the Milestones, or at least that is my experience. Probably because I play both sides.
Main issue is they increased numbers needed for milestones. Sorry, but the requirement simply does not mach the reward. Those numbers are just insane.
if thats true then we have even more points this season, but its taking longer cause we have had less event so far?
Thing is in previous system (Tome 20) you were able to get from all challenges 505 fragments.
Deep rift used to be 85 levels, so you needed 850 fragments.
Before you were getting 1 rift fragment per 500xp, which was usually 1 fragment per game unless it was first game of the day that gave you near 2 for each side. Just this you can see is at least double of what we get now. (5 out of 100 vs 1 out of 10)
Major event rifts (Blood moon for example) usually gave you 170 fragments. Last anniversary quest system gave us 1200 fragments, so also less…
Before just from quests you finished 59% of what you needed, while those games also gave you more progress and events gave us more.
Currently quests get you to 37,5% of what you need.So issue is right now you need more points to finish whole rift and individual games give you less.
I personally can't simply play every day. I usually have longer sessions less often, which is simply terrible with current system where reward per game is lower. -
Selfcare on my teammates…
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002378#Comment_4002378
Nobody is "forcing" you to play, if playing a game feels like a second job to you. Maybe you should not play it?
Besides I don't think its even required to play every day.
I'd like to see the math, cause it sounds false from just head math. Would counting up all the Rift Fragments matter?I'd like to see the math, cause it sounds false from just head math. Would counting up all the Rift Fragments matter?
Fragments needed: 10 000 (100x100)
Permanent quests can give you 3 750 (50x75)
There is usually at least one event, so 600 (12x50)
If you somehow managed to finish all milestones that's 1 750, but with least amount of games you will get like tier 3 or so, which would be 525.
That would be 5 125 shards…You gain 5 fragments per game. It's not that difficult to finish all daily quests in 2 games, so that would be 110 fragments.
So to finish it in most efficient way you need to play 46 days two games.But if you start playing basically anything less than that, it's going to be ridiculous number of games. To compansate 1 missing daily you have to play 22 games (slightly less, because sometimes you get 10 fragments), which is just really bad imo…
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002951#Comment_4002951
There is a wide cap between 20 or 200 hours spent over 80 days. But it would be constructive to have a number here.
Other than that I dont think I agree that the entire Rift should be done by quests.
Other than that I dont think I agree that the entire Rift should be done by quests.
Sounds as gatekeeping to me…
Isn't majority of player base supposed to be casual players? Well, current Rift does not reflect that at least.
If they want their Rift skins to be something "prestigious", then fine, but it doesn't really make sense to me. I would expect them to have priority to sell Rifts, making it difficult to finish simply has to result in opposite outcome.I wonder if current Rift was bought less than previous…
btw rifts with old challenge system were 100% possible to finish from just challenges, I usually did not even need to finish all of them.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002875#Comment_4002875
Yeah I kind of suspected it to be a personal.
Rift should be possible to finish at almost any point
In how many hours?
because honestly that sounds less than a Battlepass and more like free goodies.
In how many hours?
I have no idea how long it would take me to finish all the quests from nothing. I don't really care if it is 20, or 200.
Main thing is that players should be able to finish it just from permanent quests, which right now is not the case.Milestones and daily quests should be simply way for players to get their rewards sooner, not the only way to finish rift.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002656#Comment_4002656
Nobody here argues in good faith, I asked if we should do a count of Rift fragments dealt out and nobody seems to want to get to the actual truthful number that is contentious.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002382#Comment_4002382
But nobody seems to take it seriously and then you complain to me about not arguing in good faith, please.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002684#Comment_4002684
Yeah, such changes will have opposite effect and less rifts sold.
How do you know this? Are you sure about that? This might be the case for you, but how do you know all the others will follow?
I dont see any way you COULD know for sure, but please enlighten us.Even so if the squeeze is too hard BHVR will likely change it, they have the statistics to to show how hard the Rift needs to be to get the most out of it for themselves. I am open to that.
You get extra 5k BP after max level, that's how valuable your time is for BHVR…
You mean playing a game I enjoy? nah you misunderstand my argument, I am asking what is wrong with some people who dont have enough time to play not making the rift full? so they either have to buy the rest or live without them.
That is my question and how many hours total of gameplay should reward a full rift?
How do you know this? Are you sure about that?
At minimum that's how it affected me and I doubt I am only one. People who have lives outside of DBD can't really suddenly play more, at least not in long term.
I dont see any way you COULD know for sure, but please enlighten us.
How do you know players will play more, because devs increased the grind? That's usually not something that will motivate people.
People in general don't take well, when they have to suddenly do more for the same result…
That is my question and how many hours total of gameplay should reward a full rift?
How ever long it takes for player to finish all quests.
Rift should be possible to finish at almost any point, so it makes sense for people to buy it even on later date and can attempt to finish it.
I have finished all 2v8 quests and I am going to finish all normal quests, yet so far it's unlikely I will be able to finish rift, not even close. So I have no intention of buying it. -
@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002666#Comment_4002666
I mean this is a team game in a very loose sense especially for soloQ. Why would you 1. Stay to see if random people escaped if you got tunneled out. And 2. Care about them…
Yeah you need to unhook heal repair gens but all of that stuff rewards the survivor they are literally doing it to secure points especially in lower MMR. It's why people bum rush hooks as soon as people get on them it isn't to help the team it's to secure those points before others get it. It's why the second to the last person hides in a locker for hatch, why people work on generators together despite it being less efficient. It's all bad habits ingrained into them since starting the game as it rewards the most points the fastest.
I mean this is a team game in a very loose sense especially for soloQ. Why would you 1. Stay to see if random people escaped if you got tunneled out. And 2. Care about them…
There are definetly situations where I wouldn't care, if they escape. Thing is if killer managed to tunnel me early, then my teammates did something wrong → most likely unhooked too soon.
But overall I care about outcome of the match more than if I survived. I am more than happy to play in a way that is going to let others to escape even tho there is no way I am getting out of that alive→ basically chase as far from gates as possible.
It's why people bum rush hooks as soon as people get on them it isn't to help the team it's to secure those points before others get it
Those are players where I take it as a win if they die in the game…
Like everyone have right playing the game they want, but caring only about if you survived is simply going to be miserable experience.
I think overall BP and MMR systems for survivors should be adjusted so they are more team based oriented. That would help players shift their mindset. -
@Foggyguy said:
It's never been active. All hits are validated by the killer, it's one of the many ways the devs hold killers hands. Imagine if the dedicated servers actually ya know, did their job? Honestly I'd take that over the anti-tunnel updates.
Yeah, that is just not true, but I guess you are simply new player and did not play when it was implemented.
I had rule at that time, if I have been validated three times in one game, I go AFK and I usually have around 20ms ping, so it should be rare for me, but it just wasn't...You can still get validated, especially grabs get validated all the time. Huntress can also see it regularly.
Here you go with some examples of how bad it was.
Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube. -
lol, no…
That just doesn't make any sense. You never want to punish people for playing with friends.
You also can't tell, if they are actually SWF that would need such a nerf, or just random group of players who are near level of soloQ... -
That's definetly an interesting idea.
One of few Legion suggestions I have seen that I wouldn't mind. Zooming Legion sounds fun.Not sure I would trust devs with tweaking those numbers…
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@BbQz said:
Remove drones. And give her some other mechanic change her look substantially, and ideally her name as well. To something like M. Skull and you just might have a killer people are not still traumatized over.
change her look substantially
lol, no…
Her skins is main reason why I play her. If you talk about changing default skin, then sure, it's bad, but rest of her skins are one of best in DBD imo. -
I enjoyed Mirror Myers, but I really don't want map offerings back. So rather not…
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@Emeal said:
Yeah, if you want the full Rift, you need daily play too.
Its almost like the system was made to incentivize players to play and not for players who don't want to or cant play to still get a cool reward. I put in my hours playing surely I should be rewarded more than you?
If you are not playing, why should you still get rewarded?
Its almost like the system was made to incentivize players to play
Yeah, such changes will have opposite effect and less rifts sold.
I put in my hours playing surely I should be rewarded more than you?
You get extra 5k BP after max level, that's how valuable your time is for BHVR…
Higher time investment also gets you your rewards faster. That's what daily quests should do for you + let you ignore some challenges.
If permanent quests are not enough to finish the rift, then it's just bad design, because after some time of rift being active, it simply doesn't make sense for new/returning players to buy it, because it's impossible to finish for them. -
@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002637#Comment_4002637
That's not remotely close to how MMR works.
If I lose a game, it's not cancelled out by someone else winning. It's cancelled out by losing MMR, facing an easier opponent, and WINNING AGAINST THEM.
Obviously, the current MMR doesn't work, and that's why you get 19 4Ks in a row, but no that's not "normal" or good.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002593#Comment_4002593
Some killers are really good at securing 1k, so their kill rate is going to be higher, but it's still a loss.
No, it's 1/4th of a win. You still beat someone. 0K, sure, that's a loss, but if Survivors have to suck it up when they get tunneled out and accept the cold comfort of their teammates escaping, then Killers have to suck it up and accept a 1K occasionally.
Neither one feels great, but the player who literally got kicked out of the game does have a SLIGHTLY more valid complaint…
Your issue if you care only about your experience as survivor instead of team…
When all my teammates escape and I am only one to die, I think that's great outcome.
If you think every survivor game, where you die is loss, then that really has to be miserable experience. -
@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002593#Comment_4002593
And what is a "win" you?
To me: Survivor win = I escaped (I don't care how many other made it out, survivor win individually)
Killer:
0-1K = loss
2K = draw
3+K = win
Yeah, usually in this context it's as you said 0-1k loss, 2k draw, 3-4k win.
Personally it can be different for both killers and survivors. It's like if outcome of the match is worse/better than expected.
SoloQ? If we finish gens and anyone get out I consider it to be win.
full SWF? 2 or less escapes is loss.
Blight/Nurse? Anyone escaped with finished gens is loss for me.
Lower tier killers is where I would consider 3k+ as win. -
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002552#Comment_4002552
It's not hard to die 10 solo q games in a row with bad RNG, happens all the time :))
last time I played I had bots on my team almost every match, these games with DCs aren't even counted in killrates, the stats are misleading they don't reflect the real solo q experience
Issue is elo hell is 100% a thing in DBD. I can easily see it on games when I play on my account compare to my girlfirend's account.
Thing is in DBD just 1 bad survivor is often enough to lose whole game and when you die your MMR gets reduced, which means you will get even worse teammates. -
50/50 would mean killer is mostly losing. Basically kill rate and win rate is something different.
Two killers can have same kill rate, but have different win rates, because it depends on their expected outcome of the match for loss/win.
Some killers are really good at securing 1k, so their kill rate is going to be higher, but it's still a loss.
Also mobility killers are more likely to get 4k, because they have easier time to find hatch/defend gate.
50/50 would make sense for win rate, not kill rate. I think 50% win rate was in real statistics equal to 57.5% +/- . -
@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
The slide addon was added to his base kit because that's what people enjoyed playing with more. The devs set it up that way because:
- They wanted people to have two addon slots, not only one
- They were internally conflicted about whether the slide addon should be basekit or not, and so allowed the community to decide. It was unanimously chosen to be the slide-addon.
They aren't going to remove something that makes the character more fun.
This is similar in concept to why he can "hit through walls" with his power.
It's called "favor the shooter", which is a very important aspect of first person shooter designs.
I said it back when he first came out to the ignorant masses and I will say it again: It will feel infinitely worse for the Ghoul player to "miss" an attack that landed on a Survivor before they rounded a corner, than it does for the survivor to get hit around that corner.
Removing that safety net will singlehandedly neuter the killer's gameplay consistency. 100%. It was playtested for a reason. They realized this was necessary — and it is.
To put it simply, for how strong Kaneki is, he is very easy to play. A foundational reasoning on killer design for DBD is that if a killer is going to be strong, they need to be difficult to play to some degree, whether it is some form of difficult mechanic or game knowledge required to play the killer well.
Disingenuous argument. Kaneki is an M1 killer. He cannot catch you without outplaying you at a loop. He MUST win a mindgame to catch you (and yes, vaulting onto you through a window is mindgaming because it has to be his second leap, giving you time to react.) You can injure people easily, yes, but so can Legion but you don't see anyone complaining about Legion being too strong. Ghoul and Legion have extremely similar chase profiles. Easy injure, while they have to work for the down.
Kaneki just flings himself towards your direction, gets his free tag, catches up again, and hopes he can win a 50/50. To put it simply, he is too easy to be this strong
This is also a disingenuous argument. You can literally apply this same thought process to every killer in the game. Legion injures you for free, eventually catches up to you, and hopes to win a 50/50. "He just plays to win the 50/50" is an argument you can apply to literally every killer and even survivor. It doesn't strengthen any of your points. Killers who play intelligently don't allow their plan to boil down to 50/50's, and survivors who know the correct loops to kite a killer towards also will not be beholden to 50/50's. It's about playing the game intelligently. "He just plays for 50/50's" is just an even more bad-faith way to say "all he does is camp" "all he does is tunnel" it's a moot argument.
Besides, he pays actual tradeoffs for his ease of injure. He has more mobility than Legion but can only injure one person at a time instead of potentially everyone. He has more chase power than Legion but less than Dracula and Nurse because he has more mobility and Deep Wound. He's balanced as-is.
Solution? Decrease his basekit slide by 25-30%. This is a very simple, yet very effective fix for Ghoul
No, that's a very simple and effective way to totally break the Killer. His design is based around finding the opportune moment to dash around obstacles and cancel your power at the right time to catch your prey. Making him slide less will simultaneously reduce his chase power and his mobility, both of which do not need more nerfs (they were already reduced from 16m to 14m which to this day is still the worst change they've done since all it really did was make the cursor turn white more often because it can't latch to terrain as much anymore which is incredibly annoying.)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001785#Comment_4001785
That is absolutely not an issue. If you remove his ability to cancel then you remove all the skill expression from his kit. You misunderstand how the Killer works. You're literally arguing for something that will lower his skill cap while misperceiving it as something that will make him less easy to play. Removing cancels won't make him less easy, it will make him unable to express mastery over the character at all. Knowing when to cancel your power is a huge part of Ghoul's skill cap and what separates bad Ghouls from good Ghouls. He NEEDS to be able to cancel his power to:
- Reward precise positioning of the dash
- Punish out-of-position survivors
You wouldn't reduce Deathslinger's projectile travel speed, right? Even though that would make him "less easy" to play? It's your same exact logic. You would remove Deathslinger's reward for precise aiming in catching his prey because you think it'd take "more skill" your way. No. Killers are supposed to be strong.
BHVR needed to choose between removing Ghoul's ability to cancel (making him extremely clunky and awkward to play, removing reward for good positioning, etc.) or adding a cooldown to his power when he breaks pallets (to retain his high skill cap and reward precise dashes while still allowing Survivors some breathing room if they manage to safely play a pallet.) Obviously the latter is what they went with and it is infinitely better than anything I've seen people suggest here.That is absolutely not an issue. If you remove his ability to cancel then you remove all the skill expression from his kit.
There is nothing difficult about pressing button when you are in positon of desired outcome.
With removing it, Ghoul would have to know where exactly to target his dash to end in position he wants.
If Blight/Wesker/Nurse could press a button to cancel their power in middle of it, would their skill ceiling increase? No, that doesn't make any sense. Fact they cannot make it possible to missplay their powers and give survivors ability to use those mistakes.
Ability to cancel power whenever you want makes it difficult to made a missplay using your dash, without it if you target location too close to survivor, it gives option for survivor to double back and even your low fatigue won't save that.
Right now Ghoul is way easier to play than play against and that simply should never be the case. Big part of it is his ability to cancel his power.His ability to cancel and low fatigue makes his dash quite strong chase power, which doesn't make sense to have for killer who has free injury. He also has strong vault on top of it for some reason…
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I personally like Unknown and Springtrap maps…
Walking dead map is just a mistake that should not have happened and someone screwed it.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Steagull is one of the most unfunny memes this community has produced. It's funny maybe the first couple of times you encounter it, but after YEARS of the same joke, I just find it old and annoying.
Moreso when I'm playing Survivor. If I'd known you were going to throw the whole match for a stale joke, I would've just dodged the lobby. Like I understand not everyone was around to experience these things on release, but oh man it's trite at this point.
We need Calm Spirit that works for teammates…
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I finished all 2v8 quests and majority of quests from weeks 1-3 and have like 43 level, so doubt I will manage to complete this rift, which I think is really sad with all quests finished…
Quest system is failure to me. Less interesting, less rewards and who the hell set up current milestones, they are ridiculous.
Well, at least I don't have to spend money on this rift… -
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001722#Comment_4001722
Maybe if you're not great at Legion.
Even if they do stun me out of power, it usually serves me because I rarely take off Enduring.
Yeah, Enduring is must have on Legion imo. I love diving under pallet for instadown…
Stunning under pallet works in 2v8, like sure I will get hit, but you are staying here with me. Works only on low ping tho.
In 1v4 best thing survivors can do is simply bodyblock you while being in mending state, or just prerun…
I personally enjoy playing Legion and hope they are not going to change them any time soon.
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I enjoy M1 killer gameplay and have fun with skins, so for me Legion is very good option. I basically main him and Oni for same reasons…
But yeah, overall Kaneki is simply way better at everything, except information. Issue is you can't really buff Legion, when he is already noob stomping and they better not try to rework him. -
Yeah, I have no idea who thought it's good idea to change it like this.
Like it was enough rewards are trash, it's also harder to get…So far I would say quest system is massive downgrade.
Trying to force people to play every day to boost stats is going to have the opposite effect, i think.
Yeah, exactly. I had basically same when they reduced cakes for anniversary…
Things like this are simply going to demotivate me from playing. -
I think sliding is perfectly fine and it made him more fun to play, issue is the ability to fully cancel both his dash and slide at any point, which means it's pathetically easily to end your dash next to a survivor.
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I wish I could turn it off…
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It can help you against Blight, Bubba, Billy, Demo. You can crouch next to breakable door and they sometimes break that door instead of hitting you…
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It was possible to vault against her, but if she can flick behind her quickly she is able to hit survivor. That's how it was on PTB.
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@Musxussu575 said:
By this logic, even Pyramid Head needs to be aura-nerfed, because at this point if you're not running I'm All Ears on Executioner, you're not playing Executioner right. "S" tier perk puts it mildly. I could argue that Pyramid Head benefits just as amazingly from aura reading as Nurse does, yet everyone likes to bandwagon on the Nurse-nerf train for some reason while ignoring parallels elsewhere.
We've gone a decade without needing to change things. Stop changing everything about the game for no substantial reason.
You can play against PH even on short loops when he sees you, so I wouldn't say it's even close to be similar situation.
PH and Nurse are in completely different leagues…
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001319#Comment_4001319
The idea of targeting a single killer and treating her differently than the rest of the roster just doesn't seem fair to me.
"Everybody can utilize all the universally-available resources to their full disposal… except you, Nurse!"
I don't like that. It doesn't sit well with me. And it's a slippery slope that can snowball into drastic change. If I single out one killer for this issue, then there's no reason why I can't apply that logic to a different situation with another killer. All of the sudden, half the roster is unable to use certain mechanics in the game. Totally unfair.
The idea of targeting a single killer and treating her differently than the rest of the roster just doesn't seem fair to me.
Why? It wouldn't be unique to her. Spirit also stops seeing auras while charging her phase.
She could still use information perks to get into chase, it just won't work with her power during the chase.
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@Musxussu575 said:
Back in the good ol' days, Distortion was the anti-aura (and thereby anti-Nurse meta) perk. This was back when you could hold three tokens and recharge them simply from standing within the terror radius. Nowadays you can hold only two maximum, always immediately lose the one you start with to Lethal Pursuer, and have to at least briefly survive chase to recharge.
Ever since they butchered Distortion, Nurse aura builds chew through tokens too quickly for it to be effective at what it was created to do.
And now that survivors are all spawning together (which intern thought that was a good idea?), even if you do have Distortion, the killer knows where to find you anyways.
Distortion was annoying for every killer trying to use aura reading.
Just nerf auras for nurse and it's done.which intern thought that was a good idea
It was suggested for a long time to fix situation where killer can lose by default (every survivor spawned alone). It was basically this, or basekit corrupt…
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001284#Comment_4001284
do you agree that some amount of killers tunnel when the game reaches a certain point that they think was reached too fast? (a.k.a. 2-1 gen left and very few hooks, also 4 survivors alive)
and then, do you agree that if those killers didn't feel like they had to kill someone to have a chance, that they would tunnel less?
reminder, this isn't about the guys tunneling from frame 1. Whatever anti-tunnel behaviour comes up with, is whats supposed to deal with that.
This is for the killers who want to avoid tunneling, because they understand it's boring, but that also want to win the match and therefore will tunnel if they feel it's needed.
so, assuming you answered yes to the questions, do you really not think it would reduce tunneling?
But I would say my other point stands that you are trying to give very hated mechanic (slow progress) basekit, which simply couldn't end well.
can't argue here… it would probably not be received well at all.
but, by reducing tunneling, it would be an improvement for everyone overall.
do you agree that some amount of killers tunnel when the game reaches a certain point that they think was reached too fast?
Yeah, I usually try to get survivor out of the game around 1/2 gens in general. Issue is when this feature happens at 1/2 gens left, I still need to kill someone fast. Later I kill them, more progress is done.
Killers who don't even want to reach low gens, would still play exactly same and tunnel early.
do you really not think it would reduce tunneling?
It would not make me change my playstyle at any point. If need I would still tunnel at 1/2 gens and your feature would make it easier for me to win after it, because gens have less progress.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001269#Comment_4001269
like I said. nothing to talk about. You basically did the pancakes thing…
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CYCAXA9DBULH/waffles.png
this is about killers catching up on a lost game without needing to tunnel… why are you expecting me to buff survivors in this?
Ok, you get me here. I had this post in my mind as anti-tunneling alternative to PTB.
It's just catch up feature, which is not something that would reduce tunneling. You want example in practice? Look at 2v8…
Gens get slowed down there if killers are losing, yet it's still better to tunnel survivors and is usually done.But I would say my other point stands that you are trying to give very hated mechanic (slow progress) basekit, which simply couldn't end well.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001233#Comment_4001233
someone failing to kill someone until 1-2 gens left, is. that is what I'm talking about, that is what 80% of your post was talking about. I don't see how you missed that.
if a killer does not feel like they need to tunnel, they won't. If you fail to see this logic, there's nothing to talk about with you.
if a killer does not feel like they need to tunnel, they won't. If you fail to see this logic, there's nothing to talk about with you.
That's not logic, you are just naive.
Catch up mechanic would at no point stop killers from tunneling and definetly not make it feel good for survivors.
Killer is tunneling? Oh, it's same as before for survivors.
Killers failed at tunneling, or is just struggling in general? Oh, slow gens… nice
This is simply not better for survivors at any point. Slow progress builds (Forever freddy) were always hated a lot by survivors and you want it as basekit mechanic.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000842#Comment_4000842
you can never fully prevent tunneling. giving examples of edge cases is not a point against it.
giving examples of edge cases is not a point against it.
Killers wanting 8 hook games is edge case?
Killers hard tunneling is edge case? If it's edge case, then tunneling wouldn't need to be changed.Your mechanic has nothing to do with antitunneling, it's basically catch up mechanic with no benefit for survivors unlike 2v8 version, where it works for both.
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@JustWhimsical said:
I just feel like if they made it so aura reading didn't work on Nurse it would just make it so Nurse players could literally only use even fewer perks which kind of feels bad already. Even though the special attack changes were absolutely valid due to starstruck it still sucks that people want her to literally only be able to run tracking perks and gen protection perks when options are already pretty squeezed variety wise.
Nurse players could literally only use even fewer perks which kind of feels bad already
You could still use information perks to find survivor, just to not carry your chases.
I can still easily create builds even with this change on Nurse… She doesn't rely on anything, so you can also be more creative with her perks.
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When I play killer, I usually don't even kill anyone. I get my eight hooks and then let them escape.
Yeah, that's the reason…
You simply can't play against competent survivors when you never hook. Not hard to play against that for sure. -
@Amanova said:
Aura reveal status should be there like in 2v8 so she can't abuse them on you without letting you know
That doesn't do much against best killers (especially Nurse), but massively nerfs aura reading for everyone else, which doesn't sound as good design to me.
So what if I know Nurse can see me? I can't do anything about it.
That's highly different, if I am told M1 killer can see me. At that point aura reading becomes screaming → survivor knows and prerun. -
@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000531#Comment_4000531
"Definetly not the part where you can crawl and recover at the same time."
Then just hook the survivor. Slugging shouldnt give the killer the same pressure as hooking. It doesnt make sense to punish survivors as if you hooked a survivor without hooking.
Crawling and recovering at the same time should be bare minimum in the current meta. Slugging is boring, slugging has too much pressure. Crawling and recovering forced the killer to choose whether or not its worth to slug. Right now, killers dont have to choose. They can just slug.
If you came back after 20 seconds, you are going to find them within 20 meters of where you left them. Shack is 10 meters wide for reference. It's not that hard. You just walk around in the general area and listen for sound.Then just hook the survivor.
Oh right, just hook survivor as Oni to always end my power, very effective…
If you came back after 20 seconds, you are going to find them within 20 meters of where you left them. Shack is 10 meters wide for reference. It's not that hard. You just walk around in the general area and listen for sound.
Which wastes my time even more, which is not really good when my slugging is under time limit.
All you need to do is fix full slugging, which 90 seconds to unlock unbreakable does more than enough, rest is simply overkill.
Slugging should be an option for the killer, it just shouldn't be primary tactic. Those changes made slugging kinda impossible in general.
It should definetly be trimmed unless you want to remove all situations where killer needs to slug, but good luck with that….
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@Dem34888 said:
- Slow killer (3.85 ms)
- M2 attacks (so almost no perks are available for "plenty" builds)
- Mostly useless addons
- A person who plays for her should develop muscle memory, remember models and timings
Conclusion: Let's nerf her even more and give nothing in return 🤨
Nerf = offer something in return, don't kill the killer like the skull merchantNerf = offer something in return, don't kill the killer like the skull merchant
She is best killer in dbd, she doesn't need anything in return…
She would still be best killer in DBD and you want to compare her with Skully? Lol
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@TWiXT said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Survivors just won't be happy with the Nurse unless BHVR applies her old Torn Bookmark add-on effect:
"The Nurse is unable to Blink to a Target location she does not have direct line-of-sight to."
As her Base kit.
If she could no longer blink through walls, and only to places she can see, then that stops her from heading survivors off at most high walled loops, and keeps her from blinking between floors of multi level maps. If instead they changed it so that she could only blink through walls and floors/ceilings with an ultra rare add-on, then Survivors would complain less, but still complain despite how MASSIVE of a nerf this would be.
TBH, I don't think that even changing her like this would ever make the survivors "happy". The only way they'll ever be happy with her is if she can only blink on open ground, only 6 meters at a time, has a 10-15 second cooldown, permanently suffers from the blindness effect so she can never see auras, and still moves at her 3.86m/s. These changes would make her completely nugatory to the killer base, but even with all of these nerfs, made in an effort to appease the survivor player base… I'm sure they'll still complain until she's deleted entirely.
"The Nurse is unable to Blink to a Target location she does not have direct line-of-sight to."
I would be highly unhappy about that…
I literally just want to make her more difficult to play as, I don't want her gutted.I enjoy playing against her as long counterplay exists. I just want the counterplay to work, not really difficult concept.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000873#Comment_4000873
ehw. you can ply for distance AND break los the same time?
Not always, sometimes you can't even get full distance when you are near border of the map.
Also If she managed to hit you on first blink, then you will always be in distance when predator triggers.Breaking LoS will almost always mean you are not fully holding W in straight line, you have to do some side movement to get objects between her and you.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000818#Comment_4000818
Add a blindness effect that only takes place when charging a blink. That is the simplest solution I can think of
I think it would be good enough to make it she will start to see aura again on fully charged blink, or just make it so she can't see survivor aura whenever she is using power.
I think Spirit lose auras before even fully charging her power, so they have this feature…
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000868#Comment_4000868
situationally (and Nurse doesn’t have tons of perk variety), but it’s not uncounterable.
If Nurse loses chase on you and Predator procs and you’re still in range to get caught by two blinks, then… maybe route it differently next time .. play for more distance.
situationally (and Nurse doesn’t have tons of perk variety), but it’s not uncounterable.
You understand that what you say is literally only hold W in straight line, even if it ends in me getting downed, right?
Because I am supposed to always expect she can see me, so double back is not going to do anything, if she does.Well, I would like there to be counterplay so get rid of it and make her actually difficult to play as…
maybe route it differently next time
Oh my bad for trying to break LoS, the only thing that works against Nurse, against perk I can't know she is using or not…
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000841#Comment_4000841
.. can quote myself again:
same with
Predator—40s cooldown for a short aura. don’t instantly feel safe the moment you think the killer lost you. keep spacing and assume you’restillin chase vs Nurse.and vs Floods, time the unhook smart—wait till Nurse burns her blinks (at least one) and is stuck in recharge,so she dont get this pressure-value.
- nurse is nurse. she still does nurse things. strongest in the game. once the nurse knows her stuff, you’re not playing the usual loop game anymore.
- vs nurse you need a whole different plan: try to get a top down view of the map in your head, turn the map into a chessboard and play pure macro, ’cause micro gets trimmed to nothing. if a good nurse has you in range, you’re just dead.
- aura or not barely matters—it just helps new nurses. a cracked nurse doesn’t need it: blink in los checkspots + range = gg.
- rn early to tighten your macro against her, regardless of aura read or nah
Cooldown of perk is not a counterplay. Expecting she can see me doesn't do anything.
If I hold W she can down me, if I double back she can definetly down me.
and vs Floods, time the unhook smart—wait till Nurse burns her blinks (at least one) and is stuck in recharge,so she dont get this pressure-value.
So it's something I can't influence while in chase and you can't even know about it in first place…
Wow, what a counterplay. I can see you waiting under the hooked survivor for 20 seconds waiting to hear her scream and do that every game.aura or not barely matters—it just helps new nurses. a cracked nurse doesn’t need it: blink in los checkspots + range = gg.
Lol, it changes if my actions matter or not. Even best Nurse in the world need to guess when I lose LoS, that stands.
But glad you said it doesn't change much, which means we can just get rid of it and it won't affect her :) -
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000804#Comment_4000804
What if I actually want to 8 hook on purpose? How does it make sense to punish me with "antitunnel" feature, where I am doing exact opposite of tunneling?
If you can afford to… doesn't that mean you are doing well already? I don't see the issue here.
If killer won't be able to fix it by slugging, then the issue is even bigger and killer gets into lose lose scenario.
… fix what? you can hook the person. you are doing ok at that point.
because I am trying to find flaws of the system? Something devs should definetly start doing…
but this change wouldn't exist in a vacuum.
Did you skip part, where I said pain res as an option? Which would be better imo.
I saw it… remember how it the perk was gutted in the ptb? I doubt they are giving it for free. but it would be better than pop.
Your system has situation, which is likely to happen, where killer gets punished for hooking survivor who is not dead on hook.
And also happy you agree it's boring way to handle it. I think it should be better try to make this feature more interactive close to what devs tried, not something that is simply going to happen, but it reflects players actions.
Funny is your feature would get active even if killer is actively trying to tunnel someone, but simply failed to do so quickly, because that's definetly going to be less than 6 hooks.
I don't see the punishment. it's a catch up mechanic. the mechanic decided you caught up. (we can argue when you actually catch up, I'm not married to the specific hook count)
I get it, but the issue I keep seeing is the killer going "game is too fast, gotta slow down somehow.", and the usual answer is killing someone. It needs to be an alternative to securing a kill. Literaly slowing it down would do the trick.
nope. if someone dies it does not activate.
nope. if someone dies it does not activate.
Killers don't always manage to tunnel someone before 1/2 gens. Survivors have option to prolong it, you can have decent chase etc.
And your feature would become active even if killer has just 2 hooks on same survivor and is currently chasing them, which I see as kinda fail for something claimed to be "antitunneling"…
It doesn't work for killer who tries to hook everyone, but it works for killer who hard tunnels. -
@oecrophy said:
it’s not like most aura-reading stuff isn’t counterable.
How exactly you counter Predator and Floods of rage on her?
Then there is Lethal to make duration even longer…When I was doing challenges I just used Predator, Floods of Rage, Compass, and Lethal.
Survivors can't do much against me in chase and I can easily stay in chase from start to end of the game…But it’s not uncounterable.
Perks are not on most killer, but she becomes uncounterable with them. Her counterplay is breaking LoS and mingames, that doesn't work when she can see you and you don't know about it.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000627#Comment_4000627
many people tunnel because they want to slow down the game. if the game is already slowed, you are trading 6 for half a dozen. this is just for the cases where the killer is too far behind. Not for a killer tunneling at 5 gens.
It would also introduce weird situation where you downed survivor, but hooking them would stop the slowdown (7th hook), so it's bad idea to do it unless they are deadhook. So basically slug everyone until you find dead on hook survivor, because that's only logically thing to do.
your logic does not follow. at that point, 2 people are on death hook. just start killing people. it's much easier than slugging everyone.
and of course, did you skip this part? "to be clear, the anti-tunneling and anti-slugging stuff should still happen in some capacity."
I'm not saying this is the only thing to change and everything works now. why are you analyzing this in a vacuum?
I said it in different post, but any basekit slowdown should be in my opinion connected to killer's action (mainly hooking), so it feels rewarding and killer can notice the effect and also play around it.
A killer that is getting hooks does not need the slowdown. The ones struggling to, do. It's supposed to be a catch up mechanic, so tunneling is not necessary anymore.
Basekit pop/pain res would be in my opinion less hated than just slow gen speed, because it's not deserved and boring.
so, good killers get better and bad killers get to cross the map on foot to maybe kick a gen…
"Deserved"… dude. seriously? The entire game is built on people getting something they didn't "deserve". You are just used to them existing. They are there to make the game better, being "deserved" is not relevant. Either it's good for the game or it's not, this is the real thing people should focus on. instead of some arbitrary worthyness of it all.
boring I will agree on. it's not particularly interesting. but again, we should judge things on if they are good for the game or not. Do you have an actual reason for why it's bad besides you don't like it?
It's not only about working on gens. That alive survivor can also unhook, heal others, take hits, be in chase…
did you actually read what I said? "obviously dealing with 4 survivors instead of 3 is always gonna be harder on some level because numbers, but if the issue is how fast the game goes, I think this would help."
your logic does not follow. at that point, 2 people are on death hook. just start killing people. it's much easier than slugging everyone.
But what if I find and down someone who is not dead on hook? It simply wouldn't make sense to hook them….
What if I actually want to 8 hook on purpose? How does it make sense to punish me with "antitunnel" feature, where I am doing exact opposite of tunneling?
"to be clear, the anti-tunneling and anti-slugging stuff should still happen in some capacity."
If killer won't be able to fix it by slugging, then the issue is even bigger and killer gets into lose lose scenario.
Why are you analyzing this in a vacuum?
because I am trying to find flaws of the system? Something devs should definetly start doing…
so, good killers get better and bad killers get to cross the map on foot to maybe kick a gen…
Did you skip part, where I said pain res as an option? Which would be better imo.
boring I will agree on. it's not particularly interesting. but again, we should judge things on if they are good for the game or not. Do you have an actual reason for why it's bad besides you don't like it?
Your system has situation, which is likely to happen, where killer gets punished for hooking survivor who is not dead on hook.
And also happy you agree it's boring way to handle it. I think it should be better try to make this feature more interactive close to what devs tried, not something that is simply going to happen, but it reflects players actions.
Funny is your feature would get active even if killer is actively trying to tunnel someone, but simply failed to do so quickly, because that's definetly going to be less than 6 hooks.
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I think unhook protection was fine, I would probably lower duration a bit, because 30 seconds was a lot.
Penalties was definetly bigger issue and I would say simply overkill, they already made tunneling harder by better unhook protection while giving killers reason to go for different survivors…
I think the rewards were also not best simply because BBQ/Pop work way better for top tier killers, which doesn't make sense to give them basekit.
Slugging feature was fine except tenacity effect. That should not be a thing imo.