OnryosTapeRentals
OnryosTapeRentals
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keep nerfing tunnel/camp because we haven't been doing that every update
Continued intervention is only necessary because no matter how many carrots BHVR dangles or sticks BHVR pokes with, killers keep refusing to play nice. And, to an extent, I get it. Tunnelling, slugging etc. take little effort for the reward they net you. But that's exactly why they need to go. The easiest strategy to do should not get you consistent wins. That should come from skill and effort instead.
The thing forcing BHVR's hand here are the killers who refuse to improve and instead rely on getting one survivor out ASAP and winning the entire game through that action alone. It was cheesy in 2016, has been cheesy for 8 years, and now it's time to do away with it.
And for the record, camping and tunneling aren't necessary to win. A good chunk of us do just fine without it and always have. It's an easy and cheap way to win, sure. But with a little practice you absolutely do not need to do it.
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@Rudjohns said:
Sorry, but most of these are absolutely terrible changes and they help most the killer than all parties
Not looking forward for any of these.Please hold out hope and wait and see 🙏
There’s a couple of things I’m nervous about on the list but we don’t know for sure how anything will work yet. The key thing is they’re trying to address the most common player frustrations with the game. Which is a HUGE win. Some of this stuff has been requested since I first started playing (2016).
If something doesn’t work they can tweak it until they get it right and this time they’ve set aside the time to do so.
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This is incredible news. I’m truly thrilled. I know some people might be disappointed to see that we’re not getting a PTB tomorrow, but I’m certain that prioritising the game’s health now will ensure that we can have many successful chapters to come. Thank you BHVR!
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885369#Comment_3885369
why don't you pick up a killer, record every match you play and show us how skill is meaningless? You sound like that kind of person who'd say "everyone can do winstreaks" and then loses against most mid teams because "they genrushed".
Momoseventh, holder of the biggest Blight winstreak for example is a long term comp player and the best Blight player in the world. Do you think he would reach even 1/10 of that streak if he was a very average player?
Momoseventh, holder of the biggest Blight winstreak for example is a long term comp player and the best Blight player in the world
In a game with SBMM this should never be possible, regardless of the player’s skill level. Because their opponents should be equally skilled.
The fact these players are “long term comp player[s]” does not make thousands-long win streaks justifiable. It’s shambolic.
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I just don't play during 2v8. Been grinding out Resident Evil achievements instead.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885155#Comment_3885155
Sounds like a fantasy to me. Must be a different copy of DBD you obtain where survivors are slightly organized.
Much less organized at all.Must be a different copy of DBD you obtain where survivors are slightly organized.
If you find this version of DbD, throw a copy my way please 🙏
I've had enough of the disaster that is solo queue these days.
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@mecca said:
Its the most unbalanced game in existence. Tryhard killers own the game basically with a leash on the devs to dictate balance.
Survivors know this because nobody wants to play it and those that do either lose or give up. It's really sad.
Meanwhile, killers play the game undefeated with unfathomable win streaks that elitists downplay and tries to pretend they are insignificant.
Survivors know this because nobody wants to play it and those that do either lose or give up
Yep. Survivors give up en masse these days and instead of acknowledging that survivors have been dealt the short end of the stick, killers STILL try and dismiss it by saying it's an orchestrated attempt to inflate kill rates lol.
Rather than admit the much simpler truth that survivors are just fed up of losing all the time.
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@StonedHermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884448#Comment_3884448
Killer win streaks have been as high as 2k+ consecutive games. If that's not problematic to you I don't know what to tell you
It's literally outrageous that in a game with MMR, one side can go on thousands-long win streaks completely uncontested by their opponenents. The only time these players lose their win streaks is when hackers/streamsnipers get involved. And that's all I need to know that the balance doesn't lie where killer mains insist it does.
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I mean I hate to say it, but we told you (BHVR) so 🤷♂️
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882872#Comment_3882872
It can work because it has. I didn't think the previous 2 iterations were perfect, but they were really fun, except when survivors knew how to play, because then they just won every time. But I never got bored of either side, just a little irked by long killer queues. And I'd prefer it as a permanent option, but it seems all the queues take a hit every time it comes back. I just don't think y'all are cutting the mode enough slack, and are likely to convince the devs to end it for good. I'd also prefer if the devs worked on side modes like this WHILE balancing the game and working on new chapters. That's not too much to ask of them; they're not a "small indie studio" anymore.
and are likely to convince the devs to end it for good
That’s exactly what I’m hoping they do
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yes, 2v8 is dead and they really should not work on it anymore. It is wasted time and there is no way that anyone can convince me of anything else.
The Devs spent a lot of time on something they should not have done and what they SHOULD have known better. That players who asked for 2v8 had no idea what they were talking about is expected and fine. But the Devs should just have known better. The game is designed for 1v4 and changing this after so many years just does not work.
Obviously adding Bots would not help much. There are still too many Killers for the Survivors who are playing and most likely some Survivors just dont bother with the mode anymore or did not bother because of the Bots. Because Bots are just deadweights and who would want that? I am happy that the Tome only requires two games in 2v8 and this is all I will play in the mode.
IMO there are two possibilities:
- Scrap 2v8 completely and never bring it back.
- Make it a fully PvE-Mode, 2 Killers against 8 Bots. Obviously they would need to make the Bots better to make it actually a fun mode, but then Killers could play together and the queue times would basically be non-existent.
Those are the only two options if you want the current 2v8 as it is - either there is none or it is PvE. Nothing else will work.
players who asked for 2v8 had no idea what they were talking about
Right? I always feel like such a killjoy saying this but I don't see how people are looking at this mode and thinking it's a success. I'm not denying that a lot of people find it fun, but the queue times are just straight up inexcusable.
Higher matchmaking incentives than we've ever seen, giving survivors a slew of powerful abilities, adding an anti-snowball mechanic, removing killer-only Tome challenges from the event Tome. Heck they've literally resorted to removing the multiplayer from a multiplayer game and adding in bots and it's STILL not working 💀
They've pulled out some seriously drastic measures here and none of them have enticed people to play survivor or alleviated the queue times even a little. At what point are 2v8 truthers just going to accept this formula doesn't work? Please just let this mode go.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882866#Comment_3882866
so the power is called Eye's in the sky. the killer literally has radar in their hand. Just maybe… the name and Radar in her hand might be a clue to her having detection.
Trap killers are not new. the very first killer, the poster boy is a trap killer. the trapper. For many people, this is likely the very first killer they have ever went against.
status effects? they're not new either. Broken is status effect all over plague's kit. Legion has deep wound. Clown and Freddy have had hindered icon for awhile. The orange scan lines, the dots on portrait. The disappearing of red light when skull merchant put a drone, indicating undetectable. in terms of killer powers, the survivor get more information on killer power than the killer.
the idea that her kit is not readable within like first 5 games even if the player has 0 clue about the game is wild. If something did not make sense, you can maybe spend like… 2 minutes reading the power description. at least for new players, otz recommend that every time they face a new killer, they take a little bit of time to read power description.
I read your post as excuse.
Yeah you’ve completely missed what I was getting at
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2v8 was a doomed concept from the beginning. I’ve been saying for years that 2v8 would not be appealing for survivor because the game isn’t built to be chased by multiple killers.
It’s why Knight is so disliked. All of the resources survivors have are designed to stall ONE killer. Pallets and windows completely stop working when you add a second pursuer to the mix and that’s just not very fun. If they wanted 2v8 to work they needed to introduce some new resource or chase mechanic that helps survivors who are being tag teamed. But I can’t think of anything suitable that would neatly fit into the gameplay loop of DbD.
I understand people saw content creators playing 2v8 on custom servers and thought, “Hey that looks fun!” But it was never going to translate well to the actual game. The developers should have known this and just said “Sorry, not a possibility”. Now we have wasted so much time on a mode that I don’t think is ever going to work long-term.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
Skull Merchant was getting d/cs. Dracula is not getting as many d/c's.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882560#Comment_3882560
every power is intuitive to play against especially if the player is exposed to the power many times…. like after 20 games against a particular killer, you should figure out what the power does by than. You can't learn to play against a killer power if your pressing leave match button on first down and unfortunately, that was most of the problems with skull merchant.
every power is intuitive to play against
I’m not sure you’ve understood what I’m saying.
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882561#Comment_3882561
So we just aren't allowed to have interesting or complex killers because a bunch of people don't want to try or don't want to bother reading?
I'm sorry, but making 50 variations of Blight or Billy or whatever dash killer people might not despise at the moment is not a good or healthy design decision. At this point you might as well delete the entire roster and give one killer a million skins that change it into the other characters because that seems to be what people want.
No variety, no thinking, no effort.
because a bunch of people don't want to try or don't want to bother reading?
Y'all on these forums need to realise the overwhelming majority of the playerbase are casual. As in they pick the the game maybe a couple of times a week/month and play only a handful of matches. Heck, a lot of the playerbase exclusively come back to DbD for events. The "bunch of people" you're accusing of not trying are the masses that keep the game alive lol. The number of people who have enough time and money spare to extensively learn the ins and outs of a game is relatively small. The number of those interested in asymmetrical online horror is even smaller. It's not feasible to sustain a game like DbD with only dedicated players in mind. If BHVR wants to keep the lights on, they HAVE to appeal to casual players too.
Most people don't want to spend their time reading up on the intricacies of 40 different killer powers, their perks, their addons, etc. Nor should we expect them to. That's a ridiculously high barrier to entry given how many killers there are nowadays.
Because of that, killers NEED to be intuitive enough that people can understand who they are and what they do after 1 or 2 matches playing against them. That doesn't mean we can't have complex killers, just that their power needs to be represented through sounds, icons, animations etc. in a way that makes it very clear what's going on.
Plague is a good example of this done right. She's relatively complex, and unless you'd read her power you wouldn't know exactly what Corrupt Purge (her red sick) does. However, when she gets Corrupt Purge there's a loud global audio cue, she glows red, and her sick changes to red. Loud noises and red are universal signs of danger. They immediately communicate, even to someone who doesn't know her power, that the killer has beefed up in some way and they should run or hide.
Skull Merchant just didn't have the same degree of thought put into her power. For example, it isn't immediately obvious that getting scanned by a drone is a bad thing that you want to avoid. Both the scanning noise and HUD indicator are relatively neutral.
The HUD indicator is also terribly designed. Instead of splitting the circle into thirds and having the bars fill in when you gain a lock on stack (akin to how Trickster's laceration builds), you instead get a tiny triangle in one of 3 easy-to-miss black gaps in a larger gold circle. To someone playing against her for the first time, it's not intuitive that you're building up stacks.
Them being yellow is another odd design choice, because yellow in this game is the colour used to indicate positive status effects and increased action speeds. She's just a messy killer.
We can certainly have complex killers, they just need to be better design than Skull Merchant was.
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@katoptris said:
Did you earn legacy? No you didn't considering there was no streamers or even cakes to help you prestige. You can't always get what you want.
Did you earn legacy?
Most of the people wearing legacy these days didn't earn it either. It's one of the biggest red flags of a cheater lol
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@Aceinbush said:
Also you can say SM takes way less skill to play and that's true, however still his kit is stronger and has more tools or better tools than she ever had with X different things slap together and everyone is fine with this? He takes more skill to play but he also has more tools than her and both killers had like X things together chained. Also for Survivors its harder to face Dracula than SM anytime.
Also for Survivors its harder to face Dracula than SM anytime.
For players who know what they're doing, sure. But that's a very small proportion of the DbD playerbase lol.
Most of the audience is very casual and does not know how all of the killers work. Which isn't too much of a problem because a lot of the roster is relatively simple and intuitive:
- Oh this guy goes invisible (Wraith)
- Oh this guy runs fast with a chainsaw (Hilbilly)
- Oh this guy puts down bear traps (Trapper)
- Oh this guy does a few things I've seen before (Dracula)
Skull Merchant's design was very confusing. Her lore, her power, her visuals. None of it was cohesive. So a lot of players saw her and were just left scratching their heads about what was happening.
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Dracula might have 3 powers but they're all relatively intuitive to play against. It takes a couple of matches most of playing against Dracula to figure out what each of his forms do:
- Hellfire is a medium range attack that functions similarly to other killers (Nemesis, Pyramid Head, and Xeno). It's well telegraphed, the range is clearly visisble, and the SFX and animations make it clear what you got hit by.
- Wolf form is a dash attack that functons similarly to other killers (Wesker, Blight, Demogorgon, Houndmaster). Again, it's telegraphed, and clear what you got hit by.
- Bat form is the only power he has where it isn't super obvious what is going on and requires knowledge of how the killer operates to counter. But I'd say it's evened out by the fact he's pretty noisy as a bat, has a lullaby, and his teleport is well telegraphed.
Odds are if a survivor doesn't know Dracula, they've at least played against one of the other functionally similar killers and can quickly clock on to his similarity and engage in the counterplay. But Skull Merchant is a complete oddity in the roster. There is no killer like her so the counterplay is novel, and none of her kit was intuitive or well telegraphed.
Loading in as a new player against is her like:
- "Okay there are Drones that give me a little triangle on my HUD when I get scanned, but other than that I have no idea what they do." —> "Oh never mind I'm injured, broken, and hindered. —> "I best try to hide" —> *gets found straight away because the game doesn't make it clear she can see your location on a radar*
- Later in the game… *gets grabbed off a generator with no warning* because unlike the other stealth killers she has no tell that she's Undetectable (Myers' breathing, Onryo's lullaby, Wraith's grunting and partial invisibility, etc.)
- And to make matters more confusing, *constant second guessing distances in chase and confused about why she's catching up so quick* because a teammate is getting scanned across the map but the game doesn't clearly indicate what's going on so you're just left wondering "What am I doing wrong?"
Of course I'm exaggerating somewhat but the jist of it is that she was just overwhelmingly confusing for DbD's (primarily) casual and inexperienced audience. And it didn't help that her players garnered themselves a bad reputation by playing in some of the most disliked ways.
Her individual power(s) might not have been all that great, the problem was they weren't intuitive to play against.
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Hopefully they do, but currently I don't believe they've said whether they will or not so there's no way of knowing. We just have to hope.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882065#Comment_3882065
I didn't need to. The current legacy skins would lose their "value" or "wow" effect from them being so rare if you'd just be able to get them by reaching P100. New skins, that's a different story.
The current legacy skins would lose their "value" or "wow" effect
The only value they provide is letting me know I should dodge someone because they're almost certainly a cheater lol.
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I've changed my stance on Legacy. I used to be vehemently in the "keep it exclusive" camp but I don't see the point in that nowadays considering they've removed the exclusivity from pretty much every other formerly exclusive cosmetic. Old event cosmetics, old competition cosmetics, old code cosmetics, old charms, old Rift cosmetics, old Prime cosmetics.
Heck, they said they were going to do some exclusive Prestige rewards when they reworked Prestige not so long ago for those who had PIII characters in the old system, and it turned out to be a recoloured character portrait that no one else can even see lol. It's pretty clear they've made an effort over the years to try and reduce the amount of FOMO and exclusivity in the game so I don't see why they continue to die on the hill of keeping Legacy exclusive.
And then there's the fact that a good chunk of players who legitemately had Legacy back in the day lost it due to the progress reset bug, and were never given it back. Also, the last two times I saw players with Legacy it was obviously cheated in, so idk. As far as I'm concerned, Legacy lost its value long ago.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881984#Comment_3881984
Not much is known about it yet. But the content creators who were invited to the 2v8 closed lobbies yesterday all had #DBDPartner in their stream titles. There’s something happening behind closed doors and I like it. I asked one creator what it meant, but all they knew was “they got to play 2v8 early” so it’s something brand new.
Ah right thanks for explaining.
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What is #DBDPartners?
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881970#Comment_3881970
Exactly a lot of them especially in these forums thought that
No one thought this, this is just being needlessly contrarian.
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Bad idea. There's a lot of things they could've at least tried before deciding to go with bots. Taking the multiplayer out of a multiplayer game is a pretty nuclear option IMO and I'm surprised more people don't think it's kind of outrageous lol
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It would certainly make it more appealing.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438104/bots-are-coming-to-2v8
What else do you want them to do? they gave new ults better abilities and a surv sided comeback mechanic and still Survs weren't interested so it's understandable devs gave up on them and just added bots.
I can see some more buffs to Survs after this but that's its
What else do you want them to do? they gave new ults better abilities and a surv sided comeback mechanic and still Survs weren't interested
Because most of the stuff they offered survivors was nothing new. The only ability they gave survivors that they can't get in 1v4 is the ability to rebuild pallets.
Other than that, most of the abilities were just rehashed versions of things survivors can already do. Heal faster, do generators faster, read auras, etc. It's not exactly novel, hence why no one was interested.
It wasn't that people wanted survivors to be buffed, it's that we wanted something new on offer. Which they didn't provide.
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@Nazzzak said:
I thought they'd just be back up, not a definite. So it's 6v2 basically because bots run at the hint of a terror radius. I'm doing the Tome and not touching it afterwards.
I was just talking about this with a friend actually but how on earth are bots going to cope with 2 terror radii roaming the map? In 1v4 they abandon objectives at the slightest hint of a terror radius.
I really hope they've adjusted the bots' sensitivty to the TR otherwise it's just not going to work whatsoever.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880994#Comment_3880994
@OnryosTapeRentals is correct that 2v8 is fundamentally flawed in many ways. But I'll give it a go on how they can make it more fun.
1: A few more classes, and more variety within the class. As an example, let the escapist choose from different exhaustion perks for their personal use (though keep sprint burst as the aura perk).
2: Ultimates that actually make the game interesting. Scout has a good one. A player has to think about where to rebuild a pallet, do you waste time going for the best location or just use it nearby, do you get off a gen to do it, etc? The medic and gen guy have ults that can be powerful, but don't make the game more interesting, and the escapists is just kind of garbage.
3: While balance has been improved substantially, there is still the core issue that the best killer strategy is to tunnel someone out right away. The catch up mechanic needs to be designed more around this than the hook states (and/or they need to consider other base kit measures).
4: Killers should be encouraged to be apart, not together. From a balance perspective, killers teaming up isn't an issue, from a fun perspective it is. It's a boring game to be surrounded by two killers (and boring for the other 7 survivors doing gens).
5: Killer classes should be tossed entirely and replaced with something akin to current addons to allow customization by killer (okay, not a pure survivor issue, but I think it would make the mode a lot better).
6: Make chests more interesting and/or powerful. This could be done by either reducing randomization so survivors that want a particular item can try and find it, or increasing the power of items to justify the randomness.
7: Unless they add a boon class, give some reason beyond BPs for totems.
8: Allow those who play survivor to get priority in the killer queue (again, not a fun issue, but would balance queues out a lot better than just putting in bots).
This is a really good list actually.
Would love to see them work on some of these and maybe I could be convinced to like 2v8.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438104/bots-are-coming-to-2v8
What is your suggestion how the devs can make the survivor role more fun?
I feel like it is really difficult to make the survivor role more fun without overwhelming the players with complex things. I'm not a fan of adding bots to 2v8 since sometimes they work really poorly and both sides can suffer from it but, on the other hand, 10 - 20 minutes qtimes feels awful.
What is your suggestion how the devs can make the survivor role more fun?
Don't know and I'm not going to spend my time solving a problem that I didn't create. I've warned for years that 2v8 was a horrible idea because the game isn't built for survivors to be chased by 2 killers simultaneously (which is why Knight is so hated) and the splitting of the queues would lead to unpleasant wait times.
But 2v8 truthers kept asking for it anyways and it was so disastrous for queue times that they're now having to replace players with bots. And I'm fairly certain it still won't be enough to avoid long queues in both the base game and the event so idek what to say. As far as I'm concerned, this mode was always doomed to fail and they should've just said "No" instead of entertaining it.
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@BorisDDAA said:
This will backfire. 2 bots + mending simulator with legion.
Oh please I forgot they were adding Legion. This couldn't be a worse combination.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I have a different opinion. I think this is actually a really good call. It will help with queue times quite a bit if this goes right and bots can be a menace.
bots can be a menace
Yeah they were half decent when they first came out.
But either they nerfed them or broke them because every time I see them these days they're getting stuck on everything or running into the corners of the map and just getting two tapped. It's disastrous.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438104/bots-are-coming-to-2v8
Don't miss out on the event rewards! Play killer 😉
I'll see. If they're worthwhile then sure. If it's just a charm or something then I don't care.
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@Rogue11 said:
So they want to artificially increase survivor queues by 33% but what happens if 30-50% of survivor players don't want to play with bot teammates?
I certainly won't be queuing up for this garbage.
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Well that's it. I was never a big fan of 2v8 to begin with but this is the straw that broke the camels back. Absolutely will not be playing this.
Instead of trying to, you know, make the gamemode actually fun for both sides they've just went ahead and replaced 2/8 survivors with robots. It would be comical if it weren't so sad how much they've clearly given up on solo surivors.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880673#Comment_3880673
Resurgence? Really?
These are all post hoc excuses for this behavior, and, surprised Pikachu, it all seems to point to "buff killer" or "nerf survivor".
The idea of "buff me or I'll keep making people's games miserable" is bully mentality. And while I'll freely admit that not everyone who slugs is doing it out of spite, there absolutely is a group who does it for exactly that reason.
We had similar problems with 3 genning, and even double locker saves. And, rightly so, the solutions the devs implemented were base kit mechanics that outright prevented the excessive use of those cough "strategies". Not "buff them". The same kind of thing should be coming, though what it looks like I don't know yet.
Resurgence? Really?
Killers these days turn their nose up at any perk that is even slightly useful for survivors.
When Vigil got a buff of ~2 seconds on the most recent PTB we had a bunch of threads claiming it was OP and needed nerfed. Despite the fact the change is barely even noticeable in most matches.
They unironically want every survivor perk to be Calm Spirit tier.
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@DancewithmeKate said:
From my experience, it's just killer excuse. They always finding excuses for their behavior:
We are tunnelling because of Dead Hard.
We are tunnellig because of DS.
We are tunnelling because of MfT.
Everything they complained about nerfed, even maps are favoring them now but they are still playing the most boring ways to make survivors don't enjoy this game.
They’ve been using the same excuses for years now. It’s completely boring.
“Oh we’re only camping because of X!”
“If you nerf Y then we won’t need to tunnel.”
”Z isn’t rewarding enough so we have to slug instead.”
And then the devs hear and make a change and the killers keep camping, tunnelling, and slugging anyways because it was never about that.
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didn't cared in the first place why the killer started to slug
Because killers haven't just started to slug. They've been doing this since 2016. Same as camping. Same as tunneling. It's nothing new whatsoever. Just more popular now since other "strategies" have been rightly addressed.
People slug regardless of game balance. You could buff regression perks until the cows come home and the killers doing 4-man bleed outs will still be doing it because it's never been about game balance.
The vast majority of the playerbase is having NO issues winning through regular gameplay. People who need to slug to win are either not skilled as killer, or being dishonest about why they're slugging 🤷
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@BorisDDAA said:
This is no different than the gen kicking strat outrage or any nerf in dbd history. When BHVR removes broken toys, people moan and move to the next thing that takes less effort to do while trying to find 1000 excuses to justifiy it. Hooking is no different than years ago. The majority of killers I see hook people and win. Knockout needs a rework and bleedouts to bm/waste time should be addressed.
It's funny to me how this vocal minority insists hooks are too weak now, and slugging is just the META play when the vast majority of killers are doing perfectly fine (better than fine even) by just playing normally.
The overwhelming majority of us are having no problems winning matches without bleeding everyone out and that's all the proof I need to know that it's not about playing to win, it's about trying to grief.
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MMR was a huge mistake. At least the version of it we got was. If a player's MMR actually corresponded with their skill, it wouldn't be so bad. As you'd have skilled survivors being matched with equally-skilled killers.
But the things DbD tracks (only escapes/kills) aren't enough to adequately assess a player's skill level and so we basically just have free-for-all matchmaking.
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I agree. There's a few things they REALLY need to get a handle on before FNaF:
- Bugs and optimisation need to be the number 1 priority in my opinion. The game has been a disaster since the UE5 upgrade and desperately needs some TLC. Perks, items, add-ons, cosmetics, heck even entire killers (Houndmaster) just don't work properly and it's very frustrating. If I picked up the game as a new player today, I'd probably refund it given how buggy it is.
- New player experience. I don't know how exactly they're going to address this but the new player experience in this game is horrible. Like actually horrible. Of the 10 people I used to play DbD with, only 1 of them still plays. Most of them found the game too difficult and gave up before reaching 100 hours.
- And yeah, the griefing needs to go. About 1/3 of my matches end up ruined. Either a survivor gives up, or the killer decides to turbo tunnel at 5 gens. Sometimes both. It's not pleasant right now.
I'm really glad some big names are talking about this because as a community we've been asking for improvements for years and it feels like the progress has been glacial. Really, really hoping DbD gets its act together before FNaF. And if it doesn't, then I hope the resulting fallout will inspire prompt action.
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@SkeletalElite said:
The only even remotely compelling reason to remove them was that map prevention system would not work for variants however now that map protection has been changed into realm protection, this is no longer a reason.
The maps are weighted to have similar appearance rates to a single map with no variants, badham historally has a weighting that is significantly lower than other maps. These variants create additional gameplay variety, and now that there is realm protection instead of map protection there is pretty much zero reason to remove them, and yes people can tell apart the badham variants, they all have a very distinct shape, just because you haven't bothered to learn that doesn't mean that's the case for everyone.
These variants create additional gameplay variety
Which would be fine if it didn't come at the cost of map balance, but this is DbD we're talking about and they never get this right. There's so many maps in dire need of changes that they should not be wasting time making variants and instead focus on making the maps we have good. We can add all the variants we want AFTER we no longer have disasters like Haddonfield (which is on it's 3rd? iteration and is still horrible).
people can tell apart the badham variants, they all have a very distinct shape, just because you haven't bothered to learn that doesn't mean that's the case for everyone
These forums never miss an opportunity to try and pull a "skill issue" on casual players. Please, this is tired. 99.9% of players do not know the difference between the Badham maps and they're never going to. The game needs to be balanced with the majority in mind.
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I hate these and REALLY hope they remove them. Just pick the most balanced one of each to keep and axe the rest.
They're an artificial barrier to entry for new players and make learning maps unreasonably difficult. Heck even as a longtime player, I absolutely could not tell you the differences between Badham I-V. All I know is that the buildings shuffle around, but which is which? Who knows.
Not to mention it throws an unnecessary spanner in the works of map balance. Issues in DbD get addressed at an absolutely GLACIAL pace. All the variants have done is add more to the backlog with no obvious benefit. Some of the balance on the variants is just way off.
It's another in a long line of examples of BHVR making changes noone asked for.
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Yeah the pendulum has definitely swung too far in the other direction. I’ve been warning of this for quite a long time now but people didn’t want to hear it.
And now we have an epidemic of survivors giving up every match because they’re dissatisfied with the game.
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Yeah it's gotten really out of hand lately and it's making me question whether or not I want to keep investing time and money in DbD.
I could excuse the game being buggy in 2016, but now we're 8 years in. There's no reason why we should still be getting game-breaking bugs shipping with every update. I mean where is the playtesting? The QA? Some of the bugs that slip through are so obvious or egregious I have to believe they either didn't test things, or they knew it was bugged and pushed it live anyways. Neither of which is acceptable.
And on this topic, the devs should know what does and doesn't work in this game after 8 years. So why on earth did we get a killer whose power relies on AI/pathfinding/whatever its called? In the entire history of the game, they've never managed to pull this off. Knight is a buggy mess, bots are a buggy mess, Nemesis' zombies are a buggy mess, purple glyphs and memory fragments are buggy and erratic. I just can't understand why the Houndmaster's power made it past the initial ideas stages. Did noone look at "AI dog with search and chase modes" and say, "Maybe given the game's track record, we should do something else?" Because now we have another killer who is doomed to be forever janky. I don't get it.
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Happening to me too. The first time I enter the Dream World in a match agaisnt Freddy comes with a huge FPS drop.
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It’s my favourite trailer they’ve done in a while.
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This Rift is incredible. A new Deep Rift colour scheme is the icing on the cake.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875237#Comment_3875237
A little late, but doesn't change my opinion. Its the same as in most threads. Good discussion to start, reasons then given for defense, the obligatory Vector types, and then it all devolves from there.
Nothing on you, good work on a great thread. But there is trash in every page that just pollutes the whole. Still, I engaged.
How do you define engagement?
- Posting anything
- Communicating with another user(s)?
- /s lol. Just thought it was a fun poke
Hermit and Nomade had a good back and forth. It was a good read tbh. But I didn't want to engage with them as it was already going swimmingly and I was enjoying it.
To get to it now, the reason I call it '8 pages of garbage' is the fact you named the thread what it is. Because you're right. And the very fact you even had to make it, and getting 8 pages on it already, shows the passion, but also relevancy of it. Its sad this is the state of the game.
It wasn't an insult to be hurled at anyone, especially you. Its just… 8 pages of thoughts on how the games events are all just miserable now, with a few trying ridiculous BS to justify. But hey, its not anyone's responsibility for anyone else's fun, so here's to more trashed events to come!
Ahh my bad. I misinterpreted the comment.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
8 Pages of this garbage.
Everyone on both sides, hows this: We all want to play the game to have fun. (If you don't want to have fun, then I'm at a loss.)
Why is it this difficult to do so? Seriously, we're on a forum arguing over a game. A game shouldn't be difficult to enjoy. Add humans and suddenly its quite difficult. I just don't understand why everyone is at each other.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875150#Comment_3875150
Was this all in one day?
8 Pages of this garbage.
By commenting you’re just bumping the thread further. If you don’t want to engage in the thread you don’t have to.