Omans
Omans
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054693#Comment_3054693
Sounds like you need to get good. Idk. Maybe provide some actual proof that she's OP. Other then your own opinion
Always amusing when players who aren't very good tell top players to get good.
@akaTheBARON said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054722#Comment_3054722
People DC against GF all the time, maybe your mileage varies, but I've seen it. He's one of the most DC'd killers that I've seen from my years playing. Also doctor, and recently legion after his rework. But yeah, people DC for ghostface from what I've encountered in solo queues. Its surely newer players but it does happen.
and if countering every killer was the same, would that not be boring to you? Or you like all games super easy and predictable?
And yes, there are killers you DO have to play differently against, I didn't say that wasn't the case. Where did I say that? I'm stating that some people don't like having to switch up their strategies. Sucks for them, but it's true. And it's overused because it keeps being true.
But with the nurse, it's worse than most killers you simply have to change a few things up for, bc you can't really loop her like the other killers. And because of this, people who don't know how, just say she's broken and OP. She IS the strongest killer in the game IMO, but not broken. You stating that that's never been the case is hugely inaccurate. 100% your opinion you're using as a counterargument. Have you asked everybody? No. But you can read what people's complaints are in this forum and that's what it spells out for me. They just don't know how to counter her. Look up tips on youtube, I don't know what to tell you. I'm surely not going to change your mind.
AND I NEVER PLAY NURSE so, I'm speaking as unbiased as someone possibly could without being accused of being a nurse main.
I've used her maybe 4 times for a daily and thats IT.
People who actually play at the top mmr, including me, are saying that Nurse is OP. Why do people who obviously aren't there feel the need to be speak on it? If you are seeing even one D/C against a ghostface in your games it means you aren't facing nurses using busted addons that make the survivors have a basically impossible to win game.
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@RenRen said:
Cause she can be boring, people just don't want to learn how to play against her, and sometimes it can be that people don't like playing against nurse due to teammates being really unreliable.
Outside of addons and maybe changing her blink attack to a special attack, I can't really see a reason to nerf nurse.
"outside of nerfing nurse I can't really see a reason to nerf nurse"
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@akaTheBARON said:
They just hate that you can't play against her like most other killers. Its the same reason you get DC's when some survivors find out its a ghost face. They don't want to deviate from there "I just want to do gens and not worry about the killer unless the terror radius tells me they're close" mentality.
If countering every killer was the same the game would be so boring.
What is boring is this overused excuse. It just isn't true, at all.
First, i've never seen someone DC against a ghostface. Huh?
There are many killers that you have to play differently against. Example: Huntress. Try playing against Huntress like you would against a Wraith. Do that and you die instantly.
Playing in a different style is not, and has never been the reason people don't like playing against Nurse. It is, and has always been, because she, much like SWF being OP, rewards the player way too much for the amount of effort put in.
Why do these nurse defenders have to lie in order to protect nurse? Shouldn't that be a sign that she needs to be altered?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054647#Comment_3054647
Her first blink goes almost nowhere without some form of range. Its abysmal, and proven to be SLOWER then a 4.6 walking the same distance. Nurse has drawbacks. She literally has to use her power to get hits unlike every other killer on the roster. She fatigues hard if she swings and misses. She gets thwarted by simple LOS blocks and making you guess 50/50 on what the survivor is doing..Much less on if the survivor is actually reading what you're about to do.
Wow! She sounds like such a weak killer! I guess the devs should buff her. And the lowest kill rate of all other killers! Oh my gosh! Why haven't the devs buffed her! All this amazing evidence that nurse is weak, and no evidence from the side that wants to nerf this super weak killer (lol..)?
Oh, wow! Every blink to a survivor is a 50/50? That makes her a super skilled killer that can easily be mindgamed. Let's ignore the fact that with her addons, which every single nurse at high mmr in my region uses, it isn't even close to a 50/50 in many situations, and you will just go down. But sure, let's keep lying to keep our OP toy...Ah, sorry, lost my train of thought. Buff nurse!
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053659#Comment_3053659
I think I'm agreeing on all counts. I can also confirm I have noticed the same behavior from many players. A while ago I've even killed a (well known?) Trapper main with 8k hours (no, not Otz). That was kind of disappointing. It feels like many people don't use their brain.
Thankfully I also verse a lot of players with not so many hours but who clearly think about what they are doing and understand the "mind" part in mind-games.
And yes, I could do without the speed boost in the range add-ons too. I'm not sure why they did it. Maybe to handle big maps without having to play as an utter bastard? Doesn't feel right.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053664#Comment_3053664
No one? I've replied one of your posts, about a week ago. You didn't followed-up though.
Remember? That post were you stated you were basically better at playing an versing the Nurse than anyone "defending" her in that thread. (Many of which have way more experience than you. I could check since you gave your profile with its 6k blink attacks.) My reply was about hubris and the fact that you being good against her (allegedly) showed one didn't need that much experience playing her to verse her properly (or something of that effect).
I'm not very fond of twitch but maybe someone will watch and be amazed.
Stranger things have happened.
Oh, yeah, didn't feel the need to respond.
No point responding to inflammatory comments with no basis, ya know?
Hmm, I'm a little bit disappointed in myself for reaching that many blink attacks, which is way more than needed to know how broken she is. I realized how broken Nurse is a long time ago. Only play her when my viewers ask me to.
Same with Spirit, actually, when she was busted. I just stopped playing her due to how easy she was to win with. Some people want to have a fun, balanced game, and not play a mismatched, unbalanced game.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053664#Comment_3053664
To say that no one knows how to deal with the nurse would be a lie, and that is not the case anyway.
The fact is that a LOT of survivors don't know how to deal with her.
Your baits and jukes are really beautiful to look at, and if all four survivors in a game played the same way you do, the nurse in front would have a much harder time on her game.
That's what I'm urging: that the survivors who don't know how to play against her watch this kind of replay, and they will indeed become better !
My server doesn't have a very large population so I often see the same killers and the same survivors in many games.
There have been many instances where I have found myself in a game with 3 survivors equal in skill to me and a nurse I know who is just as good, too.
The nurse wipes the floor with us. It isn't a fair matchup.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053619#Comment_3053619
To say: "If Nurse is OP, it's because of the ugly SWFs who are OP!" is indeed an aberration.
The famous "god-swf" are actually quite rare; you can meet SWF, yes, it's quite possible, but it doesn't mean at all that they will be overpowered.
So in the same way that putting the nurse in the hands of someone who is not good at playing with it will mean that it will be very weak, well four survivors in voice, if they are not good at the game, will not be overpowered at all.
I totally agree with that. Neither the nurse nor the SWFs are OP.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3053649#Comment_3053649
At the risk of upsetting some people, the survivors are very far from being good, for many of them, against the nurses.
And I know what I'm talking about: I'm a hand nurse, I have a level that is, I would say, between correct and good, but no more, and yet, when I face survivors, I see the tons of mistakes they make.
I've seen survivors get screwed up by simply backing up after passing a corner of a building, because they thought the nurse was going to preshot.
(When in fact it is the BASIC part of the nurse's learning process to teleport to the spot where she lost sight of the Survivor).
I've seen survivors not know how to do double backs: do them too early or too late.
I've seen survivors go to dead zones on the edge of the map when they had all kinds of anti-LOS loops at their disposal.
I've seen 3500+h survivors run straight ahead without looking back, and get picked off in 10s on the clock.
I've seen survivors get stupidly screwed at a paddle because they fast vault immediately after lowering the paddle, giving me the opportunity to just grap them after waiting around.
That's why every time I read a comment made by someone who says "Naughty Nurse is OP, you have to nerf her at all costs!", I just want to see a dozen videos of the person in question, to find out how they play against her.
Fix his range addons so they don't cause teleportation to accelerate below 20 meters, I agree.
And by the way, when I say show us your ability to deal with the nurse, I mean it.
I frequently ask people for this kind of video, when I see them coming to cry against the nurse, but strangely enough, no one ever has the guts to show how they fare against her.
Yet, if she's that OP, it should be easy to check, right?
Show us.
Honestly I just skimmed through what you wrote.
Twitch: omansonion
Playtime: 6k hours
Been in several tournaments. Been asked to help top teams practice. I know exactly what to do when facing nurse. You can find any matches against Nurse if you want. All of my played matches are in there.
Unsurprisingly anytime I post my profile there are no replies. Why? It doesn't fit the nurse main narrative. If they keep lying that no one knows how to go against Nurse, then they must ignore people who actually know how to face her, and still call her brokenly OP.
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@Zaytex said:
The general consensus of why people defend Nurse is because of the existence of sweaty 4 man SWF's.
But as a killer main with 3000 hours, I can tell you the amount of legitimate sweaty death comp pro tournament level 4 man SWF's I have faced is merely one game.
One game where I genuinely lost because I wasn't Nurse.
If you seriously think the fabled 4 man sweaty SWF is a common occurrence, you're simply wrong. Most SWF's are just chill, average players wanting to play with their friends. The amount of SWF's who legitimately sweat, rush gens, leave, and play in a way which is unwinnable unless you're Nurse/Blight/Spirit is exceptionally rare.
It's pure whataboutism to defend Nurse because of a SWF's potential to be that fabled sweaty comp squad that's only counterable by Nurse.
Nurse doesn't deserve to stay overpowered, unfair, and anti-fun for every survivor just because of SWF's. Nerf her, buff solo queue and nerf SWF's as well.
I've picked solo queue up some more and every 2-4 games there's a Nurse who stomps the entire team. It's getting tiring.
Good to see a post from someone who actually seems to have good knowledge of the game.
It is getting tiring seeing these nurse main defenders in here lying to people with thousands of hours in the game, saying they just haven't learned to play against Nurse. It is so insincere, and obviously just nurse players defending their OP toy because they don’t want to play in a fair match.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052429#Comment_3052429
Lol, hear me out, I originally wrote something longer explaining how silly the OPs suggestions were and then I deleted it because I remembered Billy and Slinger.
But I have to believe they know they can't do that anymore, right?!
Making every killer clunkier is not only bad design, it's homogenization.
And for the love of God every dev in the world knows homogenization is the WORST design choice you can make.
If they increase her vignette and fatigue they don't deserve to manage this game anymore. They'd be out of touch with reality.
I can see a ranged addon nerf, but with her pick rates and kill rates the way they are I have to believe DBD isn't dumb enough to screw this pooch, too.
Billy nerf was terrible. He was perfectly fine. Maybe insta-saw was a little overtuned but everything else was perfect. An amazing killer.
Deathslinger, on the other hand was super unfun to go against. ADS spam was obnoxious, unfun, and led to a lot of amazingly boring matches. Was he super powerful? No. Was he high tier? No. Should they have buffed him in other ways? Yes.
What you don't seem to understand about game design is that each side should feel like they have a chance to win if they are equally, or similarly skilled.
Right now the only players who feel they don’t have a chance to win are those who go up against a nurse (and Blight with his busted addons) sweating so much it must be the middle of summer, and a low tier killer at high MMR going against a super sweat SWF squad. None of these are fun to go against. At all. This is coming from someone who actually plays every single killer, and every single role at a high level.
Why are you so opposed to a balanced game? You know why pick rates and kill rates have little to nothing to do with her balance. Why even bring it up?
The devs have made many correct choices: nerfing keys, moris, doing map reworks (despite most of their map reworks being terrible and not fixing the fundamental issues with maps). The perk rework, while not looking that great, shows that they are at least trying. SWF and nurse should be next. So...prepare yourself.
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Hey, not bad ideas!
I think Nurse in her current state is absolutely broken and super unhealthy for a skilled, balanced game. These changes look like they would be good to test.
The devs, if they care about game health should also nerf SWF at the same time as Nurse though, for a few reasons: SWF is also broken, and if nurse is nerfed and SWF left untouched then this forum will erupt in a sea of nurse tears. It sounds nice, of course, but I'd like a balanced game more than seeing all these nurse mains being rightfully dethroned.
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Listening to the nurse mains in here you'd think nurse is a killer in dire need of buffs.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050803#Comment_3050803
Your arguments are getting more and more vague.
We've discussed DS before, haven't we? If you're answer is going to be "Well she's OP because she has two blinks and I still really want to run DS even though it's been gutted against all killers." Well, then I have no clue what to tell you. You've set a very low bar for evaluating Nurse objectively. Read as: No bar at all.
Also, again, that Otz video you provided showed SEVERAL killers tooling on DS, just as ridiculously as Nurse. Nurse tooling on DS .2 seconds faster than other killers isn't exactly the end all, be all, when now half the roster absolutely tools on DS. Do you not understand this? Run Off The Record.
You believing Nurse is too powerful, and sharing that sentiment with others, is a personal problem. I'll be here if you feel like putting up any more examples.
Just an extreme lack of understanding of the game...no surprise from someone who only really plays SWF and Nurse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Another Nurse thread. I'll bite....
In nearly every one of these threads, Nurse players reply and explain what works against them. And the collective response for whatever reason is typically "No" or they're straight up ignored.
Yes, it takes a long time to master Nurse. The same can be said of playing survivor against Nurse. It takes a long time to become good at running a Nurse. If you don't try, or you keep trying the same things that didn't work against the last 50 Nurses you played, you are probably not doing something correctly.
I can't remember the last Nurse I faced that I couldn't run for at least a minute if I had two health states to work with. I've run into one genuinely good one with around 7k hours in the last few months, but every other one was pretty average. What gets teams killed are the one or two survivors who can't stay up for 20 seconds. But that's no different than any other killer in solo queue if we're being honest.
Survivors typically fall into two categories when they struggle against Nurse: A- they're not running early enough, they're being way too greedy on gens, or they're just wildly out of position when a chase starts. B- they have one very basic move they try, and they're out of ideas after that.
It's usually a combination of A and B. Survivors are throwing if a Nurse consistently gets within 15 meters of a gen and sees a survivor working on it throughout the game. There's zero upside in giving her chases for an extra 5% on a gen that isn't about to pop. All the time spent making her find you and catch up to you is time other survivors have on gens. Her biggest weakness is stealth and survivors are super aggro against her for absolutely no reason.
When it comes to the actual chase, I would almost guarantee 99% of people who say LOS doesn't work aren't breaking LOS like they think they are. Players often account for her first blink and not her follow up. You have to break LOS again on the assumption that she gets LOS after the first blink. Simply doubling back at the corner will never, ever work against an experienced Nurse. Stop doing that. It's terrible advice and I don't understand why people keep saying to do it. Go around the corner and look for a secondary LOS break. It doesn't matter where it is. You're not running the tile, so you don't need to hug it. It's just there to block LOS. Use the Z walls at the edge of the map. Use trees. Use something, and remember that sudden left and right movement royally messes with her 2nd blink accuracy.
So for whatever reason you don't go up against equally-skilled nurses in your region, and you're trying to explain how to go against Nurse to those who do already go against equally-skilled actually-good nurses in our region a lot.
How nice.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050781#Comment_3050781
I addressed DS, again. In the Otzdarva video you are conveniently ignoring how he demonstrated MULTIPLE killers trashing the new DS. If you don't like DS, run OTR. BHVR wanted to gut DS, that's not a Nurse problem that's an every survivor problem versus every killer.
0.8 meters is not the difference between Nurse making the distance in one blink or not. Stop harping on this.
I literally just provided examples of killers that benefit more from the longer gen times, Nurse struggles to use kick perks to begin with, SH: PR has been nerfed, which is one of her most common regression perks. So has Ruin, which is another one she uses very well. Overcharge/Brine is another perk combo that again is going to benefit killers that kick gens. Edit: Oh yeah she's never going to run corrupt again either, as it's been retooled for setup killers.
It is absurd to what lengths you will stretch an argument to attack a single character.
Nurse is given two free chances with her blinks after a decisive Strike. Other killers don't get that.
It is the biggest killer buff this patch to the already strongest killer.
"nurse struggles to use kick perks"... Lol.
The best killer, a killer many people rightfully believe is too powerful and never would have been released today, is getting more powerful. That's undeniable...
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050769#Comment_3050769
I already addressed Decisive Strike, the reduced haste after being hit equates to 0.8 meters - You're telling me that's disproportionately advantageous to Nurse?
Longer gen times? Very easy to argue that thana Legion and Plague builds benefit WAY more from that. And there's already a litany of threads complaining about those two killers with that perk.
Anything else?
Nurse closes the distance after a DS the quickest. She doesn't even need 2 blinks. Watch Otz's DS video to see. You'll see that only in very special circumstances (a plague with her power up) will a select few killers be able to match a normal nurse.
Same concept for distance gained by survivors after being hit. Nurse is now able to completely close the distance after a single blink, making getting the down on the second blink trivial.
Longer gen times absolutely benefit the strongest killer (nurse) the most. That's not even something you can argue against...
It is absurd to what lengths you will go to defend an absolutely broken character.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050701#Comment_3050701
Feel free to highlight the changes that benefit her disproportionately, now that you have agreed that not every buff to killers is even a buff to her.
Already mentioned above.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050543#Comment_3050543
Except that's not what you said. You said, and I quote:
"Every single change that buffs killers buffs Nurse disproportionally."
You. Are. Wrong.
Wow. Okay. I'll add "basically" to the start of what I said.
Now I assume you will continue to ignore the jist of the argument, what everyone is really talking about - that the strongest, most OP killer in the game, Nurse, benefits the most from these changes.
Why even mention word choice? It is such an irrelevancy when everyone else in the thread is talking about something different.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050511#Comment_3050511
False, the pallet breaking, gen kicking, and weapon swiping buffs do not buff Nurse, so no, the devs have displayed that they can buff killers in several ways without buffing nurse.
Sigh...longer gen times, decisive strike destroyed - might as well not even use it against Nurse now, less distance gained by a survivor after a hit which is a HUGE, HUGE nurse buff, more so than any other killer. This one change is in my opinion better than all the other changes for other killers.
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Every single change that buffs killers buffs Nurse disproportionally.
Killers are getting a quite big buff this patch, while solo queue, an already struggling large portion of the player base will seemingly have to continue being dunked on by Nurse players who will have to put in even less effort they do now to "win".
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"And no, Spirit wasn't OP."
...lol
Was Legion at launch balanced and fun, too?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047670#Comment_3047670
?????
Even if Nurse is stacking double range add ons, she can't go from no TR to on top of a gen in a single blink unless she's running Monitor and Abuse. It's not mathematically possible. 20+4+6 does not equal 32. You're straight up not running early enough if this is happening to you. If you hear a TR and you don't know that she's in a chase, get off the gen.
It seems like you assume perfect Nurse play at all times and that survivor actions do not affect Nurse accuracy. There's no reasoning with that.
What..? You seem to be talking about getting a grab off a gen. I am talking about what every decent nurse knows how to do, which is make stealth not viable. It is so easy to get close enough to a gen a survivor is working on to know exactly where they try to escape to. Do you really need to blink exactly on the survivor to know where they have gone? Ah, I see why so many nurses think she isn't OP now, if even the most basic tracking in the game is too difficult.
I'm not suggesting nurses play perfect. I expect consistent good plays at my MMR. A nurse needs far fewer constintently good plays to win the game. It's just a fact.
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@DemonDaddy said:
I really don't think she does. I find the "oppression" she imposes to usually be a result of poor Survivor decisions. Far too many survivors make the mistake of trying to run her like other killers thinking that will help gens fly.
Every time I have escaped against a good nurse it was because the team played tactically and concealed their presence while tagging gens. A good nurse will waste more time patrolling gens and searching for survivors then the average Survivor will last in Chase.
"Every time I have escaped against a good nurse it was because the nurse wasn't very good"
I love this lie that nurse isn't good against stealth. A nurse that wastes any time looking for stealthed survivors isn't very good at all. Good nurse players know the how big their terror radius is, and blink to the gen without giving the survivor working on it any time to get away.
If you are playing this way and winning, it is because the nurse wasn't nearly as good as you think.
@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047604#Comment_3047604
Exactly. When a Killer or survivor bests me I admit they were better than me and that's it.
Nurse isn't all powerful and neither was mind game old spirit...yea she was annoying but not op like everyone said....
You can't be serious.
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Nurse is OP similar to how SWF is OP. They both allow players to go up against players who may be better than them, and still win. This is not fair for either side.
SWF allows survivors to do things that give make the game very easy, so the killer facing them generally has to play better. SWF is OP.
Nurse allows the killer player to do the same. When the nurse player reaches the much-lower-than-people-think skill barrier, they start dominating. Nurse is OP.
Of course, if the SWF side isn't that good, and if the nurse player isn't that good, it doesn't matter whether they are using these OP tools or not. That doesn't mean they both aren't OP. SWF is OP. Nurse is OP.
Don't listen to the people defending nurse. The singular reason why people defend nurse and not SWF despite both being grossly OP, is nurse is a solo role. These nurse players think that having such an advantage while playing the nurse is fine because it is easier to say "i'm just that good" or "no one knows how to play against Nurse" or some variation of the same old lies.
Know what is funny, though? These same nurse mains all claim SWF is OP. At the same time, they say only nurse and blight can handle SWF. If one OP thing (SWF) can be beaten by something even up to the absolute top level (nurse), that means nurse is OP. Like, obviously...
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Devs don't know how to balance. That's really the only possible answer after all these years.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3041351#Comment_3041351
And the developers see the same damn thing. No evidence, no reasoned arguments. Just crying.
Isn't it tiring lying to yourself..?
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040717#Comment_3040717
You aren't seeing things for what they are. All these comments are doing is trying to explain to those who struggle what they are supposed to do to be better at the game. There are explanations about almost everything that needs to be known to verse a Nurse, every misconception, every outright lie or misinformation to discard. It often summarizes to playing her to try to get a clue and see it's not that easy against decent players (but that's hard and require to really want to be better). There are also all the comments of players who say how much they love versing her.
You'll also notice that most players, including Nurse players, seem to agree the speed boost of the range add-ons may be a bit too much. However it has also been hypothesized that the reason for that boost is that it's insignificant at low level and required to stand a chance at high level play, we don't know. (I don't believe that speed affects the outcome of a chase much, at any level, and I believe the speed boost shouldn't affect "normal" range jumps but I digress.)
And, and this is important, no one is naive enough to imagine that a bunch of crying will have an effect on the balance of the game.
I have posted my twitch account on here. I am a well-known streamer in Korea. On this server everyone acknowledges that nurse is Sagi (overpowered).
Twitch: omansonion
On my account you can see I am very, very good at playing against Nurse, and playing as her. I can all but guarantee that I am better at both than those defending nurse in this thread.
So, I don't need to be explained to by players who think they know what they are talking about.
The speed boost, and animation bug, regardless of what has been said about it, will no doubt be changed. I can guarantee that.
@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040717#Comment_3040717
And it's exact same 5-6 people who really hate her, what's the point even lol.
You can't just say "no you are on minority your opinions are invalid" when you don't even have a proof for it, I wish people try to make a conversation at the very least.
You actually think it is only the same 5-6 people that don't like her......? Ha..
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040271#Comment_3040271
See, all you do is labelling someone disagreeing with you as "nurse main", this is why it's irrelevant.
....what?
People can disagree with me all they want.
I'm making an observation that in this thread, and in every thread about nurse it is the same 5 or 6 people trying really hard to keep their OP toy from being nerfed.
Gotta respect the hustle. To an outside viewer or someone who doesn't play the game at a high level (like the devs) it might seem like opinions are split on the nurse. In reality it is a very small number of vocal defenders who are very loud in every thread.
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Hard agree with this thread.
I'd say most players care about having good balance for both sides. They understand that each side has things that are much too powerful, need to be toned down, and that buffing everything to be super powerful is a silly idea. Some people actually say that every killer should be as powerful as nurse, and every survivor as powerful as SWF. Absurd. A game like that would be so unfun to play. Games where power creep goes unchecked are unfun.
All the same old nurse main names in this thread are only interested in keeping the advantage they have over equally skilled players.
When a nurse reaches a certain skill level that nurse will always have an advantage over equally skilled players. Just the same as SWF. Simply playing as SWF increases your power level to much higher than how well you actually play. Just facts.
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Why do so few players only care about one side? Wouldn't it be more fun to have both sides be as equal as possible? Then you can actually feel some sense of accomplishment for winning?
All I see on these forums is whining about one side. I almost never see discussion about how to fix both sides. It's so selfish.
Both sides have things that are so broken that when you use them you are telling the other side you are not interested in a fair match, you only want to win because you used something so much stronger than the other side can reasonably put out against you. Ex: Nurse, SWF.
Using either stacked nurse or full SWF is not fair to the other side. Period.
And asking for moris back the way they were...? If you can't recognize how unbalanced moris were, honestly you should think twice about making posts.
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@Tsulan said:
You realize that the top Nurse players during tournaments barely get a 2k with NOED and camping against top survivor squads. Do you?
Having been in tournaments myself I'd say not only are the restrictions put on nurse generally harsher than those put on SWF, but that the nurse player in this situation performing that well against the best of the best survivor SWF groups, who everyone can agree are wildly OP, pretty much proves how powerful (OP) nurse is.
Also, I don't know what tournaments you are referring to, but the ones in Asia (korea, japan) have nurse performing very well if she is ever not banned.
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"But nurse is a super balanced killer! All killers need to be brought up to the same power level as nurse! Every single player in the game just doesn't know how to play against Nurse well! Even top players with thousands of hours who claim nurse is broken just don't know how to go against Nurse!"
- Every Nurse Main, lying to themselves for years
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3033151#Comment_3033151
Here are some bullet points for you:
1) Maps that are larger than 9000m² are unfair to every killer that cant teleport and isn't Nurse/Blight.
2) SWF is grossly unfair and needs to give the killer compensation (i.e. 4 extra perks chosen before the match that activate in case of SWF).
3) M1 killers are completely unplayable after you reach a certain level of MMR.
4) Survivors rushing generators forces the killer to camp/tunnel if they lose too many gens too fast.
5) Making gens take 10 seconds longer and nerfing all the gen defense perks is actually a step backwards for balance.
Largely agree with all of that.
However, I strongly believe that buffing killers to nurse and blight is a very bad idea.
First maps should be given a standard. Of course SWF should be nerfed. Solo should be buffed. Nurse and Blight should be hard nerfed. Other killers should be buffed, maybe, wait and see how much this new patch helps them.
Buffing every other killer, and even solo queue up to nurse and Blight is a very bad idea. I'm not interested in playing a game where everything is OP so nothing is. Nurse and Blight definitely need to be toned down if the other stuff happens (which it probably won't, knowing these devs), and even if it doesn't (nurse and SWF nerfs same time please)
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032999#Comment_3032999
Stop with the Bias. I regularly play against tournament dbd team members - they have the logo in their steam profile. I often play against people who loop pixel perfect the entire game without ever making a mistake.
Actually according to the last released stats from the devs solo queue is less than 25% of players. They presented the info in a misleading way. So that means 75% of players have a 15% advantage in terms of escape rates. Let's not forget Freddy got nerfed for having a 4% higher kill rate.
If you are not playing a killer that zooms you are at a disadvantage on any map larger than 9000m².
If you are playing against a SWF you are at a disadvantage.
If you are playing an M1 killer you are at a huge disadvantage,
There is no "getting good" with certain killers. Otz said for example on his stream today it would be impossible for him to do a 50 win streak on Michael Myers. That would be 50 games of wins in a row with no addons and no offerings where he has to get three kills.
I feel like even you don't know what you are trying to say.
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@Mewishis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031367#Comment_3031367
good nurses get destroyed in competitive so not a good comparison lol.
LOL
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@DBDVulture said:
All killers need to be as effective as Blight/Nurse.
The moment wraith is as effective in chase as Nurse then you wont see killers need to camp.
"Every killer must have a huge advantage over solo queue, and an advantage over all SWF except 4 of the absolute best tournament groups which you have never gone against anyways. Solo survivors consist of about 50 percent of games according to stats, but every killer should have a basically free win when going up against them. Why? Because if they can win easily then they will take it easier on these solo queue players."
Even the most delusional nurse mains would be embarassed to say this. Come on. Drop the bias and look at the game from not just the point of view of your favorite play style.
If you want to win with no consideration of how fair it is for the other team/player(s), just go play a single player game.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032175#Comment_3032175
Just play 4-5 games it’s fine. You should be able to win them all at 4k right ?
I am curious to see what perks your survivors will use tho.
Been there. Done that.
Did the winstreak trend on my Twitch: omansonion
Got tired of doing the winstreak trend, so haven't uploaded them to YouTube. You can look in the Highlights Tab and see several of my Nurse games.
Nurse was by far the easiest to sweat as, win as, and keep the streak going as. Don't remember exactly, but my Nurse streak was like 20 to 30 wins before I got bored of that trend and stopped counting.
The moment you see my Nurse gameplay you'll see I play nurse much better than any of the nurse mains in this thread defending her. Why am I so sure? Because there is no way you can play to this level and not be aware how OP she is. You can only think that way if you aren't that great at her yet, so lose often.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031770#Comment_3031770
Once you learn Nurse she becomes DBD on easy mode so your statement there was completely false.
Careful saying that. The nurse mains will see the word 'easy', assume you mean that she is an easy killer to play despite it not being what you said, and then argue with that point rather than refuting anything you say. It is all they do.
Their go-to talking point after that is how the nurse's kill rate being so low justifies her not getting a nerf, despite being an absurd line of logic.
They are proud that they learned this "hard to learn" killer, but her low kill rate is evidence that she is hard to learn compared to other killers and that means she doesn't need a nerf...? Nurse main logic.
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@Swampoffering said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029499#Comment_3029499
That excess of altruism is what makes Camping really worth it. If survivors sticks to the plan and rush the gens, every camper gets 1k per game, never pip once they reach Silver rank and gets 15k Bp.
But no, they must farm the team mate and then they blame killers for doing their job, killing xD
It is time to stop this useless lie. If the first hook is done quickly enough then camping that first person to death will give the killer ample time to get up to a 4k.
Why do you think playing that way is the best strategy in competitive games...?
Sure, if the killer camps the first hook, has no slowdown perks, no NOED at the end, the survivors don't waste any time going for the save just to see the killer camping, and the killer somehow can't find any survivors after the first person dies, then it will only be a 1k.
But if it is against solos, there are slowdown perks, survivors spend even a little time going to the hook to initially try to make the save (because how else are you supposed to see if the killer is camping or not.......), NOED, or any combination of the above, then the killer can easily turn that into a 4k, just because they stood still at first hook waiting for a grab.
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@Wondertainment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029250#Comment_3029250
Nope, I'm not new. I'm not a name dropper nor a person who like to compare hours as one might a body part size either. It suffices to say I have a lot of hours on all of my many alts. Your arguments do not ring true, i.e. they do not sound like the comments of someone with 6K+ hours in the game. They do not reflect the experience of people with 6K+ hours in the game in general. I know because most of my friends fit that description (or far exceed it). Your arguments sound exactly like someone who is upset and salty about being constantly grabbed because they haven't learned how to avoid it yet. In my experience, if something walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, tastes good grilled like a duck... it's a duck.
I don't feel like going round and round with you on this issue because I think your argument is specious and I think you are not being honest about your credentials. It suffices to say that you and I do not agree. Grabs are fine they way they are currently. They had a major adjustment awhile back and became much more difficult to time and are not dominating games. I strongly suggest you look up some "how-to" videos on the subject, or suggest it to "other" people who are having the problem if it isn't you. I've said all I'm going to on this subject.
Sounds to me like you don't play solo queue. Sounds like you and your friends only play SWF, and have no idea that this happens in I'd estimate at least 75 percent of games at top mmr on the Korean server. Or when you play killer that is your main play style and you are hoping this skilless way of playing doesn't go away.
Twitch: omansonion
My account. But go ahead, don't look at mine, doesn't bother me one way or the other. I don't know what server you play on, but please, go watch any Korean stream and you will see, within the first 30 minutes guaranteed, exactly what I am talking about.
Funny you mention it. They actually changed the hitbox not too long ago, so actually blocking the unsave attempt from the sides became easier, which also makes it so some situations in close-quarter hooks easily blockable through no skill of the killer.
But please, keep ignoring what I am telling you that the issue is not me getting grabbed, but the situation that arises when the killer stands there and does nothing against solo queue players.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029199#Comment_3029199
While I just agreed that MAYBE they should test not allowing grabs until all 5 gens are done (again NOT the EGC). Lets face it. Grabs are stupidly easily usually because a lot of survivors are total ######### bots and spam the unhook button. Expecting you to mess up. When it's the easiest thing to time in the world. They don't mix up the unhook button. They don't mix up the amount of time they hold down the unhook button to fake they may actually be unhooking. Nope. Just spam the unhook buttons.
All 5 gens done rather than EGC actually sounds more fair. You're right.
Sure, a lot spam the unhook button, and it is super easy. It is also easy for the killer to wait out all the spam or attempts by good players to. The animation is long enough that just waiting it out all but guarantees either the grab or 2nd stage. If they stop the fakes and go for the save the animation is long enough for the true save that decent reaction time guarantees the grab.
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@Wondertainment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029199#Comment_3029199
Yeah, that is what I'm telling you. If you have 6K in the game and are still getting grabbed regularly, I don't know that any advice I (or anyone else) can give will help you.
Shouldn't have to explain this, but I guess you are a newish player. I can count on one hand the number of times in my entire playtime I've been grabbed while trying to make a save.
What healthy grabs do, essentially, is make it so the camping killer is rewarded way too much, while unaffected against SWF. The SWF will be able to easily coordinate several players to go make the safe save, which is manageable to easy with 2-3 players.
Against solo players, however, the camping killer is guaranteed either a healthy grab if only one survivor comes because it is extremely easy to make that grab on one player, or a second hook stage on the hooked player and then an extra hit on the nearby single player who came to make the save but couldn't because no one came to help.
And before you say someone else should have come to help, you want to know what all these killer-only players say? "you should have just done the gens", ignoring the fact that the absolute strongest strategy in this game now is hard camp/tunneling the first hook. There is not enough time as solo players to deal with this skilless, over rewarded "strategy". What do you think they do in competitive games? Play like this, because it is the best way to play if you want to win.
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@Wondertainment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029142#Comment_3029142
You and I must play against very different people then. :) That is not how my games look, either as Killer or Survivor. I haven't seen games consistently like that since I left the ranks of Spuds LONG AGO. I understand that you are frustrated and don't see how those saves are achieved, but I assure you that they are on a regular basis. People manage saves against Killers (even those standing right there) every day, thousands of times a day. I'm not being snarky; I'm just giving you facts.
More to the point, grabs are HARD and based on validation are extremely tricky in regards to timing to pull off. They are already heavily in the Survivor's favor. If you are getting grabbed a lot, you need to evaluate what YOU are doing wrong. I'm not saying that to be mean. I want to help you. The quickest path to resolving this in-game challenge is to take ownership of YOUR part in it. You cannot change the behavior of other people, but you can alter how you react to neutralize or at least mitigate the effects. There are lots of good videos you can find about how to beat a grab. I've made some myself.
I am a streamer with almost 6k hours in the game. I am telling you the ONLY meta at top mmr on the Korean server. If you do not see this kind of play regularly I would say that says a lot more about your games than mine.
Grabs are not hard in the least. I have an insane number of grabs, so many that if healthy hook grabs were counted on the stats site I would be way up there. I almost never get grabbed. The issue is that when the survivor is alone trying to make a save the killer has a huge advantage, again, because grabs are super easy. If there are two survivors, it becomes advantageous to the survivor. Super easy for SWF, super hard for solos.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029023#Comment_3029023
It's not about hitting them twice. It's about putting the killer in a no win situation at the EGC.
Survivor 1- Forces the hit since you can't grab anymore. Takes off to the exit gate which they probably still easily make.
Survivor 2 - Free unhook and everyone gets out.
You might as well open the doors yourself and let remaining survivors go at that point. If you remove the dangerous part of unhooking in the killers face.
Grabs on healthy survivors activated in EGC just like how decisive strike is now deactivated in EGC. Pretty easy.
This change would only negatively effect those who were planning to hard tunnel one survivor out of the game anyways. That's what the devs want, isn't it?
Killers who were planning for the trade will get it anyways with this change.
Every game is the same recently. First hook is always protected by the killer, no matter how many gens. Doesn't matter when the survivors go for the save, if they were far from the hook or close. So it is quite funny when some other comments say that survivors should make a safe save. How? The killer is always looking for that healthy grab because of how much value, especially against solo, is recieved for what is a skilless play.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331216/why-not-remove-grab-survivors-at-the-hook
Grabs are a fun game mechanic and punishes people for going for risky unhooks which you ideally should not do.
Except the main "strategy" these days is hard camping the first hook and waiting for a skilless grab on a healthy survivor that the killer never bothered to injure. It is time to change this.
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They can easily remove grabs on healthy survivors to lessen the reward camping gives. If the killer wants to trade, he still gets that trade. But he can't stand at the hook doing nothing skillful and get rewarded for that.
Deactivate this in egc so killer can defend hooks easier.
It's such a simple solution that would help solo queue survivors the most, and I doubt they will do it.
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The reason this game is fun is the interactiveness of chases. Killer vs survivor in a chase. That is the main reason why this game become popular.
It is baffling that the devs don't focus more on that. Hard camping should not be the best strategy for a killer. But it is. And that‘s pretty bad balance. Killers hard camp because of map imbalance, possibility of an SWF, playing low tier killers, and survivors go super hard on the gens, predropping every pallet because they know as soon as they get on the hook they are probably going to be hard camp/tunneled to death.
The fun is the chase, not whatever this meta is.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028661#Comment_3028661
What about the non-Nurse mains, who care about game balance and having killers to verse in a two-sided multiplayer game?
They know Nurse in her current state is unhealthy for the game and would advocate for both Nurse, SWF and Blight's top addons to be toned down. Obviously.
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It is too bad there isn't a downvote button or all the same 5 or so nurse mains in here upvoting each other's posts would be flooded by Vote Downs instead of that 5 or so Vote Ups.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331155/nurse-bottleneck
Think about it from a 30,000 foot view. One killer, with a low pick rate and the lowest kill rate, bottlenecking the entire game? I COULD believe that. You know, if Behavior didn't decide to recode Nurse and intentionally buff the ranged addons.
I would prefer if they hadn't buffed the range addons, and I'm hoping she doesn't get that Wraith/Deathslinger whiplash at the end of the day, but it's pretty obvious that if Nurse was bottlenecking anything, BHVR had a prime opportunity to resolve it and chose not to.
Not intentional at all.
A dev commented in a post a week ago, and they had no idea about the change (bug) that happened to these addons.
They also didn't know about the animation bug that popped up at the same time as this bug "fix" patch. The one that makes the nurse damage you before she is shown as either finishing her blink or even raising her weapon.
This dev said they have not been recieving reports about this bug despite myself and several other posters in that thread saying we have reported it.
They have no idea what to do with nurse, so please don't claim they do.
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Nurse players probably hide monopoly money in their sleeve when playing board games and claim it was a fair match.