NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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Game mechanics are the things you do in gameplay. So menues are not game mechanics and progression systems are not game mechanics (Usually. Sometimes there is mid-match progression and that qualifies as a game mechanic).
They are the pieces that make up the gameplay loop and are what you are literally doing on a moment to moment basis as well as the statistics surrounding those actions.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652283#Comment_652283
Would you make this same argument to, say, professional tennis players, or chess leagues, or those who play ranked online matches in League of Legends or Street Fighter V? All of those games have a ranking system that is meant to reflect players' wins and losses, and place them in ranks and brackets that are appropriate to their skill.
Again, I know that this is not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but you cannot say that the ranking system isn't a game mechanic in Dead by Daylight, or that players don't bear it in mind as they decide their course of action in a match. The ranking system is not always an accurate reflection of what a player accomplished in the game (as far as the win/loss state that the game's tutorial provides to the player). It leaves room for subjective "Did I win?" interpretation that those other examples do not; if that were not the case, then this thread would not exist.
And, if I were playing a League of Legends match, but my only goal was to, like, finish a certain item build, I would not be able to claim (even in my own mind) that I won if my base got destroyed. In DBD, I can die and rank up, which feels like a (very counter-intuitive) victory to me.
Yes I would make the same argument. If somehow in league you were to rank up in-spite of your base being destroyed then you still lost.
Rank/Emblems is just one of the games progression system. It isn't part of the actual gameplay and can be ignored when talking about balance.
Win-conditions are also not a mechanic, but are the basis for all of balance. When you say something is better than something else in a game it is achieving the wincon which the thing is better AT.
In anycase, while most games do use wins or loses to determine movement along ranks. Not all games do that. For example Overwatch's ranking system is not determined by wins despite it's competitive focus.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652195#Comment_652195
I mean, sure, that does lay out a victory condition. I'm not trying to argue that. But that's just on paper.
In practice, we've all seen the kind of subjective player-by-player approach that I have described, and the actual game mechanics (by which I mostly mean the ranking system and the emblems) do not always back that up. You can accomplish exactly what is laid out in the screenshot you posted, but the emblem system communicates that you didn't actually win.
I know this is a lopsided analogy, but any professional sport, or chess, or even other video competitive games like Street Fighter have very clear win/loss states that cannot be readily disputed by pointing to a wonky rule that contradicts victory, and players can't just make up their own win conditions and ignore the parts they don't care about. You can't go "I win because I took both your knights, I don't really care about kings."
Winning is a statistic. It only exists on paper. The victory condition on paper is the victory condition. Period.
The ranking system is not one of the game mechanics (since it exists outside gameplay) and also isn't used to signify winning.
Pips mean that you rank up and ONLY mean that you rank up.
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Yeah and ######### is up with "have fun = win".
Wins are a statistic that serve a vital purpose in game design. Specifically they are the metric that determines power and effectiveness, and thus also the metric that determines a players ability in the game. The better player is always the player that wins more often when trying.
Imagine playing league of legends. If you have fun but your base is destroyed then do you win? If so why does the screen say defeat? If not then why is DBD any different? They both have a defined goal and tools to achieve that goal and progression based rewards depending on arbitrary criteria that are technically related to that goal but aren't themselves the goal.
And wincons sometimes have real stakes behind them. If I'm hosting a DBD tournament then who moves up the bracket? The answer to that question is what the wincon is. If you say a win = fun then that means you are saying that if you were to host a tournament the team which has more fun is the team which advances.
In fact, wincons are so important to how a game functions that if you showed me 2 games with identical mechanics but different wincons I'd say that they are distinct games and should be evaluated independently of each other and one would need to be balanced in completely different ways than the other.
For example lets say the Survivors wincon was instead of escaping:
"Get the most Bloodpoints"
Suddenly:
WGLF is a must take perk due to being able to double your score and put it above what would otherwise be the best possible score (and thus give you a MASSIVE advantage).
Using Bond in order to sandbag would be a critical part of the gameplay.
Deadhard would be outclassed by Sprint Burst due to SB letting you get to a Hook faster thus giving you the unhook points before the other Survivors would be able to.
Hook farming becomes a dominant strategy due to removing other Survivors also preventing them from getting BP and potentially beating you.
All Killers would suddenly become busted due to Survivors actively sabotaging themselves and would need to be rebalanced.
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In my opinion Huntress is the worst Viable Killer and she's only not better because she's Map dependent.
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fun fact. All 110 or lower Killers are at worst B tier and the entirety of S tier is below 115%.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652127#Comment_652127
The in-game rules are very fuzzy, hence the question. Sometimes you die, but pip. Sometimes you sacrifice everyone, but only safety pip. So are pips a measure of failure or success? Some people don't care about pips or rank, some people don't care about Bloodpoints. I've seen plenty of face campers who defend their actions by saying "I got the kill, that's all I care about." So did they win?
It's all really subjective, and down to what an individual player chooses to value about the game -- pips, rank, BP, escaping, making sure their friends escape, sacrificing 2 survivors, sacrificing 3 survivors, sacrificing 4 survivors, letting the last survivor have the hatch, etc. etc.
There's arguably something interesting about this approach, but I think it's less intentional and more accidental due to unfocused design. I wish endgame rewards, pips, and the whole ranking system worked hand-in-hand with the most obvious and intuitive victory states (i.e. a player should always pip/rank up if they escape, or if they sacrifice everyone -- no matter what else happened in the match).
It's really not.
@NuclearBurrito said:
I do admit there is some gray area with what counts as a win (it says the killers wincon is to sacrifice the survivors, but what about moris? Bleed outs? And how many?) . But it very obviously isn't defined in terms of pipping. And dying as a survivor is obviously never a win while escaping through the gate obviously always is one (hatch is another gray area because it specifically mentions powering all 5 generators)
The game guide specifies a win. The only vagueness is the number of Kills required as a Killer.
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Would require additional changes. I think if the game was balanced around it then it would be good.
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@King_Crimson said:
1) Make dbd VERY dark like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0AG1Fp5PXE
2) make flashlight "base item" (so it is given every survivor by default and can be used with other items
3) make flashlights last very long so they could be used at lighting tool
4) balance flashlight addons around this.
5) rework blind-related perk for killers (lightborn)
6) killers will have "lighter" version of dbd but still it would be dark
7) survivor's "stealth" skins changed to be more lighter
I don't know whether it would be balanced or not, probably not, but I would love to play this version of dbd.
That sounds a lot like hide or die and I love it.
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@Peanits said:
You'll get oblivious when you're on a portal (and trying to close it, by extension). The Demogorgon gets undetectable while traveling between portals.
That's the gist of it for now. They'll be incorporated into other powers and perks down the line.
Do you know how long the Demogorgon is undetectable for?
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@Peanits said:
I'll keep it frank, this sound highly exploitable.
If I go up against a Nurse, they'll be moving at 3.85m/s while I move at 4m/s. All I need to do to make sure they never catch me is get close, and stay just a little bit out of her range. If I see her start to blink, shine a flashlight in her eyes for a split second, she's blind. Since it's instant, I barely need to use my flashlight so I'd be able to stretch it out for most (if not all) of the game. Now she can't use her power and she is constantly moving slower than me.
Other killers wouldn't have it quite as bad, but it would still be pretty brutal. Huntress, for example, would have a hard time. Other than cross map hatchets, all a survivor would need to do is get to any wall (or high enough obstacle) and she would be forced to use regular attacks while chasing at 4.4m/s. The second you hear her pull a hatchet, turn around, flashlight, go back to looping.
Poor Wraith wouldn't be able to use his power either. He's already at risk of being burned out of his cloak, but with an instant blind as well, he would be really hurting.
I'm just not sure it could work like that. It would completely deny some killer's powers.
Again, it doesn't need to be literally instant. Just fast enough to be practical given that their screen isn't locked.
Also this replaces the burn out for Wraith, so he'd be happy with the change.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Practically, if at least one survivor has a flashlight, the killer will be reduced to a M1 trapper the whole round. Nice try, but there’s a reason why insta blinds were removed and I’m not gonna explain it because it should be obvious.
Being blind doesn't stop you from hitting them with a chainsaw nor does it prevent ANY utility aspects of the power.
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@Neonova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648710#Comment_648710
What does clown have for tracking? Also there is a difference between "Oh hey I found a survivor" and there is a survivor at the gen inside the lodge atm. Speed is not tracking, stealth is not tracking. Things like bbqc are tracking.
Clowns bottles make people scream. So you can throw them over cover to check it faster than walking over there.
And even though it's not direct Speed and Steath DO improve your ability to find Survivors and thus improve tracking. Something like BBQ is obviously way more effective than speed at that sort of thing, but Speed is extremely important.
If someone has 10 seconds to hide they can pick a further and more effective hiding spot. While if they have only 2 seconds to hide then they are far more likely to be caught out in the open. And if they don't even know they are supposed to be hiding in the first place then they are certainly going to be caught.
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@THEghostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646063#Comment_646063
Actually it is. Undetectable is basically what tier 1 Myers is minus the slow speed and no lunge. Spine Chill is a detection perk, and Myers for example, is immune to it in tier 1. Undetectable will REALLY benefit stealth killers, and so so with certain non-stealth killers.
No. Tier 1 Myers is not the same as what Undetectable is going to be.
Tier 1 Myers has a terror radius and is immune to detection perks that are not aura reading perks.
Undetectable specifically state that the Killer has no terror radius and is immune to Aura reading and only Aura reading.
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Ok I get it, he's saying it's 15% faster than 4.6.
4.6*1.15 = 5.29
But PWYF is 15% additional speed with 100% being 4 for a total of 130% or 5.2
It's weird.
Just understand that every PWYF stack is 0.2 M/S flat regardless of Killer.
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@Unnamed_Freak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637413#Comment_637413
Legion is old movement speed was 5.28 m/s, you can see this on the wiki or on the 2.7.0 patch notes. He probably based the number on that.
I thought that too but then I noticed that it was a 9 instead of an 8 for some reason. Like I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that speed, it's just a weird number to use.
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@PolarBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647215#Comment_647215
There is no risk if the blind is instant. Imagine this scenario. You're being chased by a nurse and she starts a blink, you just have to right for less than 0.2 seconds and she gets blinded. No time for her to react and you just get rewarded and it barely uses up any battery life.
A Huntress pulls out her hatchet? Just ######### blind her, what's she gonna do? Avoid it?
I'm gonna have to say no to this.
I mean it doesn't have to literally be instant but it needs to be fast enough to be practical or else it would be useless.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650714#Comment_650714
So many posts? I don't see any. What I do see is plenty of posts about SWF being OP. Who knows could be because of different times me/you are on the forum but I barely see them.
Here's one example:
@RaginRendon said:
Being able to know what your teammates are exactly doing by simply looking at the bottom left corner of the screen can help players a lot (especially solo players). It'll allow players to make more wise decisions.
There are others.
They aren't as common as it's inverse (complaining about SWF) but they are all out there.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/637413#Comment_637413
This speed you will have with 3 tokens of Play With Your Food
No that's 5.2 M/S flat
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@justarandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650332#Comment_650332
I'm good enough, thanks. I played this game over 2k hours, both sides equally. I personally never complain against Nurse even tho she's much stronger than spirit. And you know why? Because even when Nurse ignores a lot of standard defense mechanics of survivors, she is still fair and you can still beat her in 1v1 situations. So what's your point?
Spirit on the other hand is a complete bs show and luck based. And against a decent spirit it absolutely unfun to go against. Ah, and in the case you don't have iron will it's gg anyway. Don't even try to "juke" and outplay a decent spirit. It's to ez to catch a survivor in such a situation and I know that because I dont have any difficulties when I play spirit.
So is it luckbased or is it unjukable? They are mutually exclusive claims, pick one.
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honestly I'd be cool with just a 1% buff at tier 3.
5% per gen is a good perk.
4% is not.
Thus 5% is the dividing line.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650428#Comment_650428
People seem to forget solo play is very underpowered. But we just talk about how SWF is OP
Then how come there are so many posts about giving more base kit ally tracking so solo's aren't as weak.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650309#Comment_650309
Killers like to regurgitate this nonsense.
Look at where that's gotten the game. Devs are continuously nerfing survivors because the Top Ranks have it easy for SWF and killers suffer hard there.
Now we're stuck with 10 minute killer queues because there aren't enough survivors.
You do not balance an asymmetric casual game around the top elite players. You balance it around the majority of your playerbase, otherwise that majority stops playing.
Leave balancing at the highest levels to competitive eSports games which have fair and equal conditions for all players and teams. Asymmetric games are a totally different beast.
Asymmetry is not mutually exclusive with serious balance and competitive gameplay.
Overwatch is Asymmetrical and is highly competitive and is being balanced accordingly. Yes the Asymmetry is not to the same degree as DBD but in terms of balance the difference doesn't matter in the slightest. In fact it would make it even harder to balance, since it's the equivalent of having to balance Killer's around the idea that any of those Killers could instead be a Survivor doing the Survivor objective with the same mechanics as when they are a Killer.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650352#Comment_650352
Eh, top player make up like just 4% of the population, and are out of touch with how the majority of players play the game.
Let's look at the stupid suggestions top rank killers have suggested:
* Make Ruin baseline
* Make NoEd baseline
* Add secondary objectives
* Double generator repair time
All of these are stupid suggestions that would result in a massacre of blood at the lower ranks, and even in the green and maybe even the purple ranks. They are changes which would utterly decimate the survivor side for at least Ranks 10-20, which is a sizable portion of the playerbase.
The game would not survive if BHVR took the "expert opinion" of these "top players" seriously.
Other than the secondary objective one (which isn't inherently problematic) I haven't seen any top level players suggest any of the things you just listed.
I've seen people suggest those things. But they were all random people I've never heard of rather than the 4% you're equating these suggestions with.
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It shouldn't have 2 different things counting for it.
Just safe unhooks would be best.
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Oh yeah almost forgot. Mori's (besides cypress) and Key's (besides dull) are both stronger than instant heals and should be nerfed.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650310#Comment_650310
If you think those should be nerfed as well, then I'd also be willing to lose insta-heals. One question though.
Which insta-downs would you consider not comparable out of curiosity? Insta-heal is gone the second you use it.
Iri heads (which most huntresses will also use with a belt to have 3 hatchets) can be used throughout the entire match they're brought in.
Same as the Clown bottle (afterpiece tonic I think it's called)
Of course there's the 2 chainsaw killers which isn't even an add on and is in their basekit as something they can do every match.
Myers and Ghostface both have to stalk for theirs but it's easy to get at least twice a match
All of those are easily more powerful than a one time use insta-heal.
Again, the Killer needs to be 4x stronger than any single survivor (and thus each side taken together is overall equally powerful). And a Killer Power should be stronger than any item or perk(mathematically ignoring powers will put the Killer at a massive disadvantage which the Power is supposed to make up for).
In other words the instant downs from powers are fine because the game is already balanced around the existence of high impact powers. If the game was not balanced around them then this would be another story.
So that leaves Killer addons and Killer perks which even qualify for being as strong or stronger than an instant heal. Specifically it would need to be strong enough to single handedly put you ahead by 4-5ish extra hits (since pink instant heals can sometimes be used to get 2 HP).
Some Killers are at base behind on hits compared to the ideal. These Killers would be expected to get more hits as a result of addons without being broken. They are still problems but for reasons beyond the scope of this thread.
I'd estimate that the following addons would meet those requirements and thus should be nerfed:
- Omega blink Nurse (technically a combination but it gets enough downs via the addons to still qualify)
- Prayer Beads
- Iridescent Hatchet (Infintry belt makes it dis-proportionally bad to face as well)
- 4 Blink Nurse
That's it.
Other things CAN get 4 or more extra hits, but they wouldn't be expected to in the average game. And there are plenty of combinations of things that will get 4 or more extra hits but the fact that it's taking multiple slots keep it in check and combining survivor perks can keep you safe from a similar quantity of hits between all 4 survivors if you are willing to spend the perks on it.
Things like these include:
- Enduring + SF
- Tuft of Hair/Tombstone piece + J.Myers Memorial
- "The Ghost" - Soot + Coxcombed Clapper
- Borrowed Time + DS + Adrenaline
- Billy Insta-Saw addons (borderline. Would be ok with a slight nerf)
Probably more combinations I'm not thinking of. Basically when talking about combinations divide the number of downs by the number of items in the combination.
Things like Omega Blink and Iridescent are strong enough that being a part of a combination still put them well over the threashold. But most things do not.
I didn't include the Pinky finger addons cuz I don't know the numbers for it and thus can't evaluate it properly.
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That's just changing the required quality for those emblems.
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Mori's are indeed BS.
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Ghostface only loses his power if he's stunned while using it. If that's what you mean then sure.
If you mean that if she's stunned EVER then she loses it then no.
But if you mean stunning her while she's phasing then you've massively outplayed her and have earned it.
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@Kenshin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/83221/the-game-is-not-fun-without-ruin
ppl say that since 3 years and yet we are here.
Yeah in a world where nearly every Killer runs ruin.
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Not base. Maybe as a perk/power effect.
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@FixThisGamePLS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/649238#Comment_649238
It was a leather face but he hit me with his base attack
Possibly an insidious camper. Did you check his other perks?
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Ok I see the problem here. The counters for Camping and NOED are mutually exclusive with each other and thus you are having problems, fair enough.
Here's the thing. Camping is actually slow enough that you can gen rush anways and even with NOED he won't get more than a 2k unless he stops camping so long as you actually gen rush.
As a solo this can suck because the entire team needs to gen rush and hard for this to work. So it's understandable that this would be frustrating.
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Otherwise I like it! Nice idea!
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@G0lden_Ra1den said:
Ever since Save The Best For Last got the rework it so desperately needed, it became a top-tier perk with a high reward value with a good cost of earning/losing it’s power. However out of all of the Shape’s perks, his least used one undoubtedly is Play With Your Food. It disheartens me because that perk should be the most rewarding in my opinion. But I believe I have a solution for that:
You become obsessed with one Survivor.
Hitting your Obsession with a basic attack earns a singe token, letting the Obsession escape a chase earns a token.
Successfully hitting a different Survivor with a basic attack loses one token. Missing an attack will not reduce any tokens.
Each token grants 3/3/3% speed, up to a maximum of 5/5/5.
Every time The Killer downs the Obsession, 4/3/2 tokens are removed.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
Feedback would be much appreciated, personally I think this perk would bring a good reward system of ignoring the Obsession, while also not letting them go unscathed, reminding them that they too are as vulnerable as the other Survivors. All the while still maintaining its old/current perk speed of 15%.
"Hitting your Obsession with a basic attack earns a singe token" -> "Injuring your Obsession earns a single token"
Current wording will cause you to gain a token at the same time as downing them which I'm sure isn't the intent.
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@TheUnendingNightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648896#Comment_648896
No it would rebalance it since now there would be a more equal amount on each side.
Now killers get healer time queue and survivors dps time queue... isn't ironic ? XD
An equal amount on both sides means long Killer que times.
4 survivors per killer would be fast ques.
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@TheUnendingNightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647766#Comment_647766
Bc not everyone would go survivor for an easy win ? Lol
That increases Killer Que times. The less popular role is the one with the shorter que time.
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@PyroDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648292#Comment_648292
Yes, that's a good point. I agree with you.
Unless the unhooked one knows where the killer is and quickly runs and hides successfully (which is what they should do anyway), it (the perk) won't do much.
Translation: Run breakdown
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@Neonova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646671#Comment_646671
Than no killer besides freddy, hag, doc, and legion have any form of location. This is a battle of semantic anyway so I don't see the point.
Those Killers as well as Plague and Clown have direct forms of detection.
All stealth Killers are good at tracking due to survivors not knowing to go into hiding.
Nurse and Billy also can find people easier due to them having less time to hide before they get there.
Trapper gets information from his traps being either set off or disarmed, same as with Hag and Freddy in that sense.
That leaves Leatherface, Spirit (unless she uses specific addons) and Huntress. All other Killers have something to help with tracking,
speed, stealth or direct tracking.
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648315#Comment_648315
Fair point, I still think that removing the broken effect could be a potential way to make the perk not as bad. Personally I’d prefer removing the TR prerequisite, because a killer can hard camp or immediately come back to the hook, rendering the perk useless.
If you are good at stealth then the TR thing isn't a dealbreaker. Even if you aren't it will still proc often enough to be a good perk.
Yes it's a problem for you, but it's not THAT hard to get away in time so long as the Killer isn't already there (in which case unhooking you is often a misplay).
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@Warlock_2020 said:
@NuclearBurrito Though I disagree with greatly on the need to equate any survivor ability to killer ability by a multiple of four, I decided to toy with it last night.
I ran 15 matches with instant downs that were not part of a chainsaw ability. Basically, going with the idea that there is a finite time limit for the power.
In 6 Shape matches, I was able to attain exposed status average of 3 times per match and down an average of 5 survivors instantlyduring the matches (no addons).
With Clown and an instant down addon, I averaged 5 instant downs a match.
I ran the other 5 matches with Trapper using HG, DH, and NOED. HG gave me 2 per match. DH gave me 3 per match, and NOED gave .6 per match. Between them, I was just over 5 per match.
So, I easily beat the multiplier of 4 in every match. I also learned that haunted ground worked super well for Trapper. I'm going to toss it in with a couple of good addons and see what happens.
Instant heals are a counterbalance in this game. Like anything, good teams of survivors can abuse them. One of the Clown matches had such a team. Four syringes in that match. Downed the first one and his buddy had him up right after I hit him. Best part? I downed him almost immediately and scored a lucky shot with the bottle 6 seconds later on the other and downed him again too. Exposed was already winning 2 to 1.
Edit: I should add in that these matches were run at yellow and purple ranks. Mostly purple.
Even if you ignore the fact that you are playing against mid rank survivors. It still took nearly your entire Kit in the trapper game to be equivalent to just instant heals. Meaning they still are getting an advantage on you by also having 4 perks in addition to having an item worth almost as much as 3 of yours.
And if your being smart, even. HoT can be used in a chase. The only difference is that it's not an oh ######### button but rather a strategical move used in advance.
Heck we could even give it the BNP treatment and not have it consume the entire medkit, instead just consume the charges needed to finish the heal.
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@MimiDallas said:
The point of INSTA-heal is to get heal instantly. 12s self-heal ? Then how would it be different from a good med-kit? EXACTLY
Insta-heal add-ons have their place in the game as long as killers have their ultra-rare insta-down add-ons and moris.
You can still get the effect, it just isn't guaranteed.
Much like how looping the Killer for 60 seconds will completely negate haunted grounds.
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647195#Comment_647195
But it is, if you are broken (status effect or deliverance) you have to wait for it to wear off, and a survivor could have easily healed you (with we’ll make it or just normally) in the time it took for the perk to activate. On top of that, the fact that it’s TR dependent means that you’d be better off getting healed by someone because the chance of you taking advantage of this perk are slim.
That's a drawback not a prerequisite. You don't need to become broken in order to use the perk, the perk does it automatically.
Being revealed to the Killer isn't a prerequisite of Object of obsession. Nor is a slower initial heal a prerequisite of autodidact.
And if you the perk triggers then it is more efficient than a survivor healing you manually no matter how fast they would have done it.
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@prayer_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647834#Comment_647834
“...Any one instance of something from the Killer needs to be 4 times stronger than the Survivor equivalent, since the Survivors can have 4 of whatever it is...”
false. Any perk/addon/... survivors have applies only to him and/or has only one use. Killers perks apply on every survivor and can be used every time
That's the how. The end result is supposed to be that it's equivalent to all 4 survivors running the inverse effect.
So in order for Haunted grounds to be equivalent to an instant heal you would need to get 4 instant downs with it on average.
For the chainsaw the standards are different due to it being a power.
The iridescent hatchet addon is another one of those things that needs to be nerfed so pointing out that it's stronger is comparing one OP thing to another.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647837#Comment_647837
Yes, but what I thought they said in the stream was that while you were charging your lunge, you gained killer instincts around your portals.
Basically the lunge put you into a sort of predatory mode.
I could be wrong though.
No they hadn't even mentioned that the pounce existed at that point.
If the survivor is near a portal you see their location, period.
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@xCarrie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647819#Comment_647819
I understand what you mean I should’ve worded it better sorry lol. What I mean was in the video when you stand on a portal you can pick whichever one to go to however if somehow (and sadly it’s happened to me with Freddy) you might teleport to the wrong one or one you didn’t mean to because they’re close costing you big time. I didn’t mean if you pick the wrong one cancel it as there’s no way to animate that but rather once you stand on a portal you have the option to enter it and move to any portal you’ve placed manually
The animation doesn't start until after you've already made the decision. Until then you can just stand on the portal as long as you feel like. What you are proposing would just take longer and not actually solve the issue being brought up.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647827#Comment_647827
I thought they said the killer instinct works while you're charging your lunge.
No Killer Instinct is the tracking effect
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646873#Comment_646873
Several killers are hardly hindered by MYC. Billy, Nurse, Speed Wraith, Hag, and Spirit really make good use of it.
Instant downs are way more powerful than instant heals. How? They can be used multiple times per match where instant heal is only once. Sorry, but I would rather be able to get 5 chainsaw hits in a match than have one shot at an instant heal. No comparing the two.
Most forms of exposed give opportunities for many downs as well.
First of all.
Any one instance of something from the Killer needs to be 4 times stronger than the Survivor equivalent, since the Survivors can have 4 of whatever it is.
So an instant down isn't supposed to be the strength of an instant heal, but rather a team of 4 survivors all running instant heals.
Second of all.
A in the case of Killer powers, having an instant down generally comes at the cost of being balanced around that fact in that their power won't have things that Killers without instant downs will have.
For example Billy has an instant down sure, but he also has a long charge time, gets stunned easily and can't turn while using it. Meanwhile Spirit has a short charge time, is invisible for the duration, has no stun and has full control over her own movement. Yes I know the comparison isn't perfect but the idea is that the instant down alone is not enough to make a Killer Power good simply because a good Power needs to do a lot of things all at once. Just look at Bubba, he has an instant down but is #########.
However, Survivors are not dependent on their items. Thus a Survivor team with no items can go head to head with the Killer and be evenly matched. In theory Instant heals would be balanced out by the Killers UR addons, and while sometimes it is, far too often it isn't. And the only addon builds I can think of that can go against a full team of instant heals (which is what SHOULD be equivalent to the Killers best addons) would be Gen Grabber Spirit and Omega Blink Nurse, both of which are considered OP.
And finally.
Other than the Chainsaw Killers, NOED and specific addons. The instant down effects ARE closer in equivalence to a heal over time. This is because most example are tied to a timer.
Myers is 60 seconds
Ghostface is 45 seconds
MYC and HG are 60
Iron maiden is 15
Not sure how long the clowns pink addon is but it's on a timer too
NOED and Devour Hope are tied to totems which can be removed in advance
Rancor comes with an explicit drawback and only works on a specific survivor.
So that leaves chainsaws which I went over and iridescent hatchets which a lot of people rightly want nerfed
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@HatCreature said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647811#Comment_647811
He means once you pick a portal you have to go to that one while Freddy can cancel it and maybe choose a different one.
Not possible to implement at this stage from a logistical point of view. The animations ect don't allow for that sort of thing.
Also it's pointless, you don't have the ability to gain information during that time in order to justify such a decision.