NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@MissGamer456 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816033#Comment_816033
Say if a survivor is about to die or go into second phase and the killer is camping/ proxy camping. You try to save them but you get grabbed because the killer is spamming his button to grab you. Do you not see how that can be a little unfair?
no? That's a fair interaction. You were the one that waited that long to go for the save. You (or someone else if you were being chased) could have easily just gone sooner and not risked it. So if you do risk it and it doesn't pay off then that's just the risk in the risk vs reward dynamic.
In anycase you should not get a free unhook if the Killer is right there. DO NOT UNHOOK IN THE KILLERS FACE.
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@Star99er said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/814546#Comment_814546
Yes it would be a nice alternative for playing aggressive with exhaustion perks and ds.
I know right.
Personally I like to run a medic build. Because anti-heal meta math doesn't hold up when you heal twice as fast and you don't need perks to loop.
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@VexTheHex said:
Killers don't need more BP perks when Survivors still don't even have a bonus on No Mither and earn a fraction of what a Killer can.
Otherwise I don't think we need MORE stealth options for Killers. I thought Survivors were supposed to be the stealth side?!?
They don't but the perk effect doesn't work nicely with tiers and I didn't want to add a second effect just so I can make the effect scale.
As for Killers not being the stealth side. Looping meta makes Stealth Killer gameplay styles extremely healthy, since it both is an answer to looping meta and is answered by the looping meta simultaneously.
So as far as I'm concerned more Killer stealth perks is better (within reason obviously, you should always be able to detect non-stealth Killers in one way or another so I wouldn't add a literal invisibility perk)
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@2Khours said:
not a perk many would use tho, survivors would just beg to be healed and the perk would be near useless, I don't think it's a good perk overall,
If Survivors are healing just to counter it then I'm happy with the result.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815564#Comment_815564
Oh you are right, I thought they removed the basic attack condition from Dark Devotion too, sorry for mistake.
Ye. They buffed it by increasing the duration and removing the cooldown instead. Even though it doesn't work on powers it's still a decent perk now.
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Dark Devotion wasn't given that buff. Just infectious fright.
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Oh yeah, and unlike the Spirit he doesn't spend a few seconds channeling it first.
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Like seriously. This is the magician:
https://identityv.gamepedia.com/Servais_Le_RoyHis power is literally just the Spirit's power.
Movement speed increase? Check
Total invisibility? Check
Lack of cue for the other side? Check
Husk left behind for stand still mindgames? Check
And guess what? This works fine. So heck yeah a Survivor invisibility item could work.
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You mean like the magician in Identity V? Sure why not, he's fun to play against.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815152#Comment_815152
Not necessarily. Without Collision you have a greater chance to end up on the same side of the pallet as them.
You don't need to be on the same side of them. The pallet hasn't been dropped yet.
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I don't have bloodwarden so I can't test this properly. But something I want to try is see if I can convince a Survivor to hop into a locker during the EGC after they find me in the basement.
If I can do that then I can preform the trick to get a 4k with any Killer no matter how well they can gen rush or loop.
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@LordRegal said:
I would like to ask those who say "just chase them out" ...if you know there's no chase going on, if you know that you as the survivors have won...why do you need your hand held as you leave? I don't get it when I'm in a game and I wind up running into all four at the same exit door. You know you've won, I'm not going to begrudge you your win, you did better than me. We all know this. Why bother wasting quite literally all of our time just to BM?
I ran an experiment a couple years ago, and reran it last week...if I play the game 100% normally, except at the end of the game, when the final gen is powered, I head to the basement and stare at a corner...what do survivors do? The answer hasn't changed from 2017 to now...4/5 games where more than 2 survivors are alive, someone will come find me in the basement and try their damndest to get my attention, and unless only one remains, 9/10 games ended in someone lingering, whether to find the hatch, waiting for me to show up at their door, or waiting out 90% of EGC in the 2019 test. That just...baffles me. Even with EGC people do this. I'm acknowledging the surviving members' superiority over me and allowing the escape, and it's not good enough for people!
The basement test is an extreme example, but the door one is extremely common...until the killer shows up, no one wants to leave the map. If there's a chase going on, I get it, you want to possibly save your friend. But if it's clear that the game is won, just go. You're wasting all of our time, not just the killer's. Get out, get your points, and get to the next game. There's absolutely no reason to need to be chased out. I extend that courtesy to killers when I'm playing. If we're all there, I leave. I'd rather jump into the next game than linger on the current one.
Step 1 - Play Leatherface (don't camp tho) with instasaw addons
Step 2 - Run bloodwarden
Step 3 - During the EGC head to the basement
Step 4 - Instant down the first person to go into the basement and hook them when the EGC timer is at about 30%. If they are on death hook you can hook them at 50%. Make sure to loudly leave the basement so they can get a free unhook because you still shouldn't camp.
Step 5 - ???
Step 6 - Profit
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815113#Comment_815113
You can bump into them, and if you don't react instantly, aka nobody, then there's a chance of you missing the hit.
If they are close enough to the pallet for that to matter then by the time you'd finish going through them they would have already thrown the pallet.
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@xRem said:
When a spirit counter is listed it cant be a perk as a counter, so we cant just say use iron will to counter spirit specificall(even though it's good against 16 of the other killers but ok).
When killers ask how do I counter infinites? Were told "just leave them" or "use bamboozled If you hate it that much". That's the same argument as "just mindgame the spirit" and "just use iron will".
But why? Why do killers get all their issues solved by something you have to ######### buy or get lucky with the shrine?
Items? Just use Franklin's demise 4head or just git gud and play around it.
Looping? Use bamboozled or spirit fury noob. Or just mindgame lol.
How do I slow down the gens? Use Ruin, Pop or Corrupt. Or just pressure them lmao.
Before anyone tries to crucify me, this isn't at anyone specifically, I know killers do similar thing but I see it so much more on survivors side, why? I want someone to explain why all killer fixes are perks but one survivor fix that's a perk or multiple is unacceptable?
While iron will is not valid, mindgaming is a valid form of counterplay.
Unlike "just leaving them" it actually does lead to the desired outcome and thus qualifies.
If you just leave them at the loop then they end up not being hit. But if you mindgame the Spirit then you do avoid the hit.
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wait, how does he get bombs?
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seems a bit overstuffed. He has a ranged attack AND traps AND stealth AND 115% MS?
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/814994#Comment_814994
If the press M1 into a wall or pallet?
the Survivor you bumped into. Because you know when you bump into a Survivor
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/814791#Comment_814791
No hits are guaranteed. Ever.
We are assuming the person knows to press M1 when they collide with you.
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The game is trying to tell you something.
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I don't get this post. How are you being punished exactly?
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Anyways the Emblem system is kinda stupid. It isn't tied to the wincon so you can depip on a win or pip on a loss, which just isn't right given the function of a ranking system.
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@Might_Oakk said:
How are people still complaining about DS?
When it first came out all 4 survivors got a free escape.
I don't see how that's a counter argument.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/814703#Comment_814703
My point was, she has a good chance of getting the hit either way, BUT there's more opportunity for counterplay when she does have collision.
But that's not an opportunity for counterplay. She has a guaranteed hit regardless of collision.
Either she runs into you and swings, or she doesn't and knows you didn't go for the pallet.
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I don't get it.
If she has time to go through you then she has time to instead press M1.
Any time she passes through you is a time she could otherwise immediately get a hit.
The only time this is a buff is when someone tries to body block.
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Make Lightweight silence your footsteps and Calm Spirit silence the grunt when falling.
That way with the build:
* Lightweight
* Calm Spirit
* Quick and Quiet
* Iron Will
You will be completely silent and the Killer will be forced to rely on visuals to track you (for which the scratch Mark's will fade quickly).
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To be more specific estimations like mine are how people like @Xerge can conclude that the Killer has upwards of 7 minutes to do his thing even though the raw gens and gate alone only represent 3 minutes. Hook stalls make up the remaining 4 minutes there.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/814053#Comment_814053
I don't play any of the killers you mentioned. Yes, hooking someone means 1-2 survivors are off gens to save them, but as I mentioned, if you are playing against a very good group they won't be going down without dropping every pallet available. There is also a 59 second grace period that someone can just sit on hook and you don't even need to bother to save them yet. I always finish the gen I am working on before I go save someone who is on their first hook, and good survivors usually do the same.
So unless you get lucky and catch someone in a dead zone, you are going to get into a hefty chase against good survivors. That first chase can completely end the game if it is going on for 50-60 seconds if you are not running ruin. And making the first chase last 50-60 seconds isn't hard when every single pallet on the map is available.
A SWF team also wrecks your argument, and you will run into plenty of those at high ranks. Two people will still be on gens, only 1 will be going for the save.
I'm going to assume this isn't intentional. But you are straw-manning me.
All I'm claiming is the following:
1 - Hooks will stall the game thus giving you more time to get more hooks
2 - Working backwards from the estimated stall via 10 hooks (the remaining 2 are not applicable for these purposes) you can calculate that you'd need to hit Survivors at a rate of 1 hit every 25 seconds
That's it. The only reason I brought any of this up was because you were claiming that you could expect games to end in 2-3 minutes, which if you get hooks then you can't.
I did not claim the game was balanced.
The grace period is irrelevent since the only assumption made is that they are unhooked at some point and that in doing so they are stalled. Since gen regression isn't taken into account for calculating the time the actual point in time they are being stalled is irrelevant, just the duration, for which the lowball estimate is about 20 seconds of stall per hook and the highball estimate is 40 seconds.
The Killers I specifically listed are the ones that can actually reasonably achieve that 25 seconds per hit ratio. The ones I did not list are the ones that cannot if the Survivors know what they are doing such as Pig, Legion or Doctor among others.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813836#Comment_813836
You can estimate all you want but the fact is generators are done in 80 seconds. Survivors typically spawn within a 5-10 second run of one, so at higher ranks you can expect those 80 seconds to be ticking down x4 right at the start of the game.
Ruin might buy you another 20~ seconds per gen, assuming there are no toolboxes which basically negate it, and nobody spawns on it. A good team is not going to be wasting time looking for a ruin, they will power through it and probably hit a decent amount of greats as well.
50 second chases are not acceptable at all. That's a gen and a half done between the remaining 3 survivors, if there is ruin. But a 50 second chase is not that hard to accomplish against a non-top tier killer if it's a survivor sided map (i.e. most of them).
No ruin? That 50 second chase will probably cost you 2-3 gens at red ranks, because the survivors will finish the ones they started before they go for the save. Especially if toolboxes are involved.
The thing is that after the chase a few Survivors have to STOP doing gens. 2-3 to be specific depending on if you get into another chase time.
That's effectively the same as adding on extra gen time. Assuming you 3 hook all Survivors you will get this stall effect a total of 10 times (the final 2 hooks are null in terms of stall). So while the initial time you have is only about 180 seconds or 3 minutes (that's 80 seconds per gen twice plus 20 seconds for the gate) the amount of time you actually have to catch Survivors is longer than that since the stall effect from each hook is significantly larger than the 2 waves of gens that is initially there.
Even if each hook only stalls the game by 20 seconds that will end up well over doubling the time it takes them to complete all the gens, and due to how the meta plays out it can often end up being well over 35 seconds of stall per hook.
Again, yes good Survivors can stall for 50 seconds against most Killers. That's why this isn't a true counter argument to Survivors being OP (especially since the entire point is to presuppose you hook each Survivor 3 times). The actual reason why I even calculated that number was just to get a good idea of how long a chase should last on average for it to be balanced and 50 seconds was the number I estimated.
For the record part of the conclusion is that if you have to break at least 2 pallets in each chase then you will always lose if the Survivor doesn't run right at you, even if we take nothing else into account.
Nurse and Spirit can worth with this time frame no problem for obvious reasons.
Billy's instant down comes clutch combined with this fast patrol times
Hag can get free hits with her traps, sometimes even almost cross map
Demogorgon's shread can clutch loops and cut down on pallet breaking time and more importantly his teleport can both lock down generators to give extra time, give sneak attacks and reduce initial chase distances most importantly
Huntress can bypass loops with hatchets and also get effective instant downs with the melee hatchets
Freddy can use his teleport for mindgames to reduce initial distances between him and the Survivor and can use his traps to shut down loops.
Everyone else is varying degrees of non-viable.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813773#Comment_813773
Actual discussion: I can’t impose loops on Spirit when she phases, therefore she is broken. I have to guess, like with almost every other game known to man.
On a more serious note, a game’s balance is subjective. Plenty of survivors on this forum would be A okay with legitimate infinites being in the game because they find them “fun”. Why is asking people to learn so taboo?
Again, a lot of people are (in theory anyways) trying to bring up non-balance issues.
Just because something isn't overpowered doesn't mean the discussion is over.
I'm obviously not advocating for Spirit nerfs. But the fundamental idea of changing something for reasons beyond balance is completely valid. Not every issue a game can have is a balance issue and those other issues still need to be addressed somehow.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/810492#Comment_810492
7 minutes? Can I link you to some VODs where at rank 1 there's plenty of instances of 3 gens being done in under 2?
With some killers and maps you can have gens 80%+ done before you could spawn in and physically walk across the map to that gen (myers im looking at you) to check the discordance proc.
If the survivors bring in like 3+ toolboxes and you get a map like blood lodge and are not playing an OP killer? Good luck not getting stomped without ruin or at least corrupt intervention. They would have to be pepega to lose that.
And keep in mind, im talking about red ranks with good survivors. There are still plenty of terrible survivors in red and purple ranks who just hold W in chases and don't even try to loop. The fact I can even find survivors who never look behind them and just mindlessly toss pallets in red ranks is a sign in my opinion.
I've estimated that you have about 9 minutes assuming you can average about 1 health state every 25 seconds, not counting the first few seconds before anyone can get on a generator.
Hooking someone slows them down slightly, so adding up the stalls from each hook besides the final 2 gives you about 7 extra minutes.
Now as you probably want to point out, most Killers take longer than 25 seconds to hit you (remember, I said hit not down. So that's 50 seconds of total acceptable chase time per hook). And this is true and why we call those Killers unviable without Ruin. The remaining Killers such as Nurse, Spirit, Billy ect are the viable ones since they can get hits and downs at the required rate.
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@Rex_Huin said:
No-one has ever repaired a generator hanging from a hook - that's all I'm saying...
Challenge accepted
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@bubbascal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813360#Comment_813360
Nah, you'll be called a attention thot and given the same treatment your favorite Killer is getting now. ;)
(RIP Rin)
RIP indeed.
While you're here any feedback for the Killer?
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@bubbascal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813140#Comment_813140
Just be honest and admit you wanted this bumped. lmao
Whaaaat. Noooooo.
I'd totally never want one of my posts to be placed higher will more people will see it and give me more feedback allowing me to further improve it until it's the best idea ever.
Definitely 0 motivation for such an ulterior motive.
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We tried that. It was busted OP
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Added a visual que to a Survivor being soulless because I just realized I forgot to do that.
Soulless Survivors are monochrome and their portraits aren't filled in.
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@UrbanChaos45 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813098#Comment_813098
it would be just frightening to see a grim reaper just like effing float to you out of nowhere lol, God this makes me miss original killers because you had no idea what they were gonna do, if after pennywise we get an original killer I'll be pleased tbh.
I want more original Killers as well. And yeah a Reaper Killer would be awesome as hell.
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Not bad. I could see this working
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@UrbanChaos45 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813075#Comment_813075
I kinda wonder what power the reaper would have as it's sorta fantasty isn't it?
Here's my Reaper proposal if you're interested.
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Reaper
Movement Speed: 4.4 M/S (110%)
Terror Radius: 32 Meters
Height: Tall (floating like the Nurse)
Weapons: Scythe
Power: Soul Thief - You may charge your Scythe for 2 seconds to ready your power, gradually slowing down to 3.6 M/S (90%) during the charge (average of 100% M/S if released immediately).
Releasing the charge will Reap all Survivors within a 5 meter radius regardless of obstacles, causing them to scream and granting you their soul. Your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters per soul in your possession.
To regain their soul Survivors must head to one of 3 Alters and preform a 5 second channel. While preforming the channel the Alter becomes active showing it's aura to the Reaper and will remain active for 5 seconds after the channel ends.
While Soul Thief is charged and you have at least 1 soul you may press M1 to preform Void Strike and instantly teleport 4 meters forwards and attack the first Survivors in the path. This may be recast by pressing M1 again for each additional soul you have so long as the attack hits a Survivor. You may Void Strike in the direction of an active Alter to teleport directly to it.
Soulless Survivors preform ALL actions 10% slower including movement and vaulting
Addons
BROWN
- Increases Reap range by 1 meter
- Removes 1 Alter
- Hitting a Survivor with Void Strike inflicts Mangled on the Survivor until they are healed
- Increases Void Strike range by 1 meter
YELLOW
- Increases Reap range by 2 meters
- Alters take 2 extra seconds to use
- Increases Void Strike range by 2 meters
- Soulless Survivors are inflicted with Blindness
- Hitting a Survivor with Void Strike inflicts Broken on the Survivor for 45 seconds
GREEN
- Increases Reap range by 3 meters
- Decreases Soul Thief charge time by 0.5 seconds
- Aalters take 3 extra seconds to use
- Increases the Slowdown on Soulless Survivors by 2%
- Void Strike will steal Souls from Survivors if you don't already have them
PURPLE
- Increases the Slowdown on Soulless Survivors by 3%
- Each Soul stolen decreases your terror radius by 4 more than normal
- Reaping a Survivor inflicts Exhaustion on them for 30 seconds
- You are undetectable while charging Soul Thief
RED
- Soulless Survivors no longer have their movement speed reduced. You move 5% faster per soul in your possession
- All Survivors start the trial Soulless. Survivors are Oblivious while using an Alter
Perks
- Hex: Despair - Every time a Survivor heals gain a token. Hooking a Survivor will consume a token, inflicting the broken status effect for 30/60/90 seconds once they are unhooked. When the hex is cleansed you can no longer gain tokens but you will keep your existing tokens and can still utilize them.
- Isolation - For every Survivor not within 32 meters of another Survivor gain 1 charge per second. At 80 charges gain 3/4/5% increased movement speed. Downing a Survivor will reset your charges.
- Unpaid Dues - You are obsessed with one Survivor. Whenever a Survivor is unhooked that Survivor will gain a permanent 10% action speed penalty to repairing generators, healing and sabotaging hooks. The Obsession will gain a 10/15/20% action speed penalty instead. This debuff stacks up to twice per Survivor.
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@UrbanChaos45 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/812937#Comment_812937
Ah so like a flying killer they wouldn't really work? I assume a grim reaper wouldn't make sense in DBD either because the entity is the one who takes the bodies of dead survivors away?
I have posted Killer ideas for both of those.
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As for the OP.
Yes and no.
Balance problems require either a buff or a nerf.
Non-balance problems still justify changes. But they don't justify a buff or a nerf. Instead they justify a sidegrade, which is either a change that does not effect somethings overall strength or multiple changes that cancel each other out.
In general non-balance problems take priority over balance problems due to their relative difficulty to solve and how solutions to balance problems are often dependent on the solutions to other non-balance problems.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Any time you mindgame someone there are always a few prerequisites:
1 - There is no dominant option for either side. That is to say, the Killer can't guarantee a hit and the Survivor can't guarantee a long loop. In this case they will take the dominant option regardless of what the other side does.
2 - At least 1 side has unreliable information on the other - Basically LoS is broken. Alternatively there could be multiple options that can be taken fast enough that the other side can't react. Basically a prediction is required
3 - The other side (relative to the one with unreliable information) is aware of the first 2 things - You cannot do a mindgame on accident. Suspecting a mindgame when the other person does not and messing up because of it is referred to as "outplaying yourself".
That being said. Lets look at one of the most common mindgames, the red glow mindgame at a loop:
Level 0 - The Killer has a red stain. If he rounds a corner the Survivor will know in advance. This gives the Survivor a better idea of where the Killer is going to be.
Level 1 - The Killer is able to walk backwards in order to hide his/her red stain. This can make the other survivor think they are going in the opposite direction.
Level 2 - A Survivor who sees the red glow disappear can note that there is a red glow mindgame and go towards the glow.
Level 3 - A Killer going against a good survivor can turn around and change direction to catch a Survivor that suspects a mindgame off guard.
Level 4 - A Survivor that suspects a level 3 Killer can go where there is no glow in order to avoid a hit
Level 5 - A Killer that suspects a level 4 Survivor can instead moonwalk anyways in order to mix it up.
And so on. This goes on forever.
Effectively this makes any and all red glow mindgames a guessing game. The only difference between this and a non-mindgame guessing game is that this has unequal odds. The Killer is more likely to get a hit by moonwalking compared to turning around or walking forward normally, and a Survivor is more likely to avoid a hit by avoiding the red glow. This is because there are more people who don't think about the mindgame than people that do.
This applies to literally every mindgame. It is inherent to mindgames in general. You can't guarantee a result so you have to guess what the other person guessed, who is guessing what you guess and so on. This isn't random per say, there are often inherent costs to making a given guess compared to another guess (for example if the Survivor can either go to a window or a pallet, and the Killer can cut off one of them in time but needs to predict it, the Survivor would rather go to the window in order to save the pallet for later), however ultimately both sides are always making a guess.
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@ahandfulofrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/812249#Comment_812249
Oh, I'm not arguing she's balanced. I totally think she is - just super oppressive in the right hands with the right tools.
That might work. Would it look like scratch marks?
It would look like passive phasing. But along the entire route she took to get to wherever she unphased at.
The balance implications to this is just that you get a bit more data on what they attempted to do for the purposes of future mindgames. This effect is small however so the primary benefit is psychological.
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@ahandfulofrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/812239#Comment_812239
Then what would you suggest?
I think she's balanced.
But mostly for the sake of QoL a trail when she exits phasing so you know how she caught you after she has (and gives you the satisfaction if seeing her go right past you) without compromising the dynamic itself.
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No. Her mindgames are how you catch Survivors and use it for anything other than it's most boring applications.
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@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/811928#Comment_811928
Both killer and survivors have one main objective ( kill escape) and one second ( protect and hide). The thing is survivors main objective it stays in one place and can work by multiple survivors and the in other hand killers the main objective is moving all the time and can be inferred by another survivor. For the second objective survivor has to hide for one killer and on the other hand, killer have to protect 7 gens. So the only reason that gen rush is so good right now is that survivors main objective can be completed by one survivor only and any other survivor working on it just cut the time at the half.
I am aware of the causes. I've been suggesting Killer buffs to counterbalance the speed Survivors complete gens at (by buffing each Killer one by one besides a specific set of viable Killers being used as a reference)
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The issue with gen rush is that it's too effective. Not that people are trying to escape ASAP.
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The if then statement is valid.
But giving hope is too nebulous to be part of a wincon.
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If they've just completed the vaulting animation you should still be able to hit them. Just strike their body as if there was no window.
If they've moved from the window and no longer are in range then you can't hit them. You need to hit them during the animation or after but before they've actually moved.
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@jsphwtsn said:
It's the same as killers having broken add-ons. While I agree it is incredibly frustrating to deal with, this game would be very dull without these kinds of things. It's no different to Prayer Bead Spirit, or Iridescent Head Huntress. Or even just moris in general. You're not gonna play against them every game. If every game there was no items, no add-ons, nothing that could give any side an advantage, it would get stale fast.
False Dichotomy. You can have items and addons still exist to shake up the game but not have them actually throw off balance.
Simply re-balance them as permanents, much like how perks are (in theory) balanced now.
Details:
@NuclearBurrito said:
First off I want to start by saying that I've never like the idea of Killer's or Survivor's SOMETIMES being way stronger than other times, and that there should be some baseline powerlevel that they can consistently have no problem which is then balanced around. It's ok to have a bit of a progression requirement to get to that point but I've never like the idea of something being balanced around the idea of "oh this one thing is super strong but can only be used in one match so it's fine".
Thus addons and items throw the game completely out of balance, since you can't balance around 4 Survivors with items and 4 Survivors without items at the same time, let alone basekit Killers vs Killers with their best addons and Survivors with their best addons on those items and also Mori's because why not.
Since it's impractical to expect high level addons to only be used against opponents using those same addons, balance is not maintained and no matter what everything is thrown out of whack.
Thus the primary change is this:
Make all items and addons not consumables. You always keep them after every match no matter what so long as you got them from the bloodweb (not chest items). Offerings stay the same as they don't generally provide a major benefit and just alter the games RNG instead although Mori's should be completely removed.
The bloodweb would be altered to be MUCH smaller per web compared to now, however besides offerings all prices would be significantly increased to compensate.
As for the specific addon and item effects they would be altered so higher rarity means the effects are more extreme but with a drawback of some sort. Higher rarity means bigger effect and a bigger drawback.
Now to list out what I'd specifically suggest for each item/addon:
Medkits
- Camping Aid Kit - Moderately increases healing speed. Unlocks the self heal option (24 charges)
Note: This means self heal speed is increased too.
- First Aid Kit - Considerably increases the speed you heal others. Unlocks the self heal option (24 charges)
- Emergency Med-Kit - Slightly increases the speed you heal others. Unlocks the self heal option. (32 charges)
- Ranger Med-Kit - Tremendously increase the speed you heal others. Moderately increases Skill Check success zones. Moderately increases Skill Check bonus zones. (32 charges)
Note: No self heal option with the Ranger's medkit.
Addons
- Rubber Gloves - Moderately decreases the Healing Skill Check difficulty. Moderately increases the Skill Check bonus zones.
- Butterfly Tape - Slightly increases the Healing speed
- Bandages - Adds 8 charges to the Med-Kit
- Sponge - You don't get skill checks while healing. Overrides other addons.
- Self Adherent Wrap - Moderately increase healing efficiency when healing another Survivor and slightly increase healing speed when healing another Survivor. (not yourself)
- Needle & Thread - Moderately increase the chance to trigger a skill check. Moderately reduces skill check success zones.
- Medical Scissors - Moderately increase Healing speed. Decrease med-kit charges by 8.
- Gauze Roll - Add 12 charges to the Medkit. Slightly reduce healing speed.
- Surgical Suture - Considerably increase the chance to trigger a skill check. Considerably reduces skill check success zones.
- Gel Dressings - Add 16 charges to the Medkit. Moderately reduce healing speed.
- Abdominal Dressing - Considerably increases the healing speed. Decrease med-kit charges by 12.
- Styptic Agent - Using the secondary action button will cause you to consume this addon as well as 16 medkit charges and gain Endurance for 8 seconds during which time you glow (the visual effect when you are hit with endurance but the entire time). If you are hit during this time you will gain 20 seconds of the Deep Wounds status effect. Overrides normal healing with the medkit until used.
- Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe - Using the secondary action button will consume this medkit and automatically heal the target up to 1 health state at the normal healing rate. This requires 32 charges to use and overrides normally healing with the medkit.
Note: Unlike with Second Wind taking damage does not interrupt the automatic healing. However it will reset the healing and picking up the Survivor WILL stop the heal.
Toolboxes
- Worn Out Tools - Moderately increases repair speed. Slightly decreases Skill Check odds. Unlocks the Sabotage action (120 charges)
- Toolbox - Moderately increases repair speed. Unlocks the Sabotage Action (130 charges)
- Mechanics Toolbox - Considerably increases repair speed. Considerably decreases Sabotage speed. Unlocks the Sabotage action. You cannot hit great skill checks. (80 charges)
- Commodious Toolbox - Slightly increases repair speed. Unlocks the Sabotage action. (160)
- Engineers Toolbox - Moderately increases repair speed. Slightly increases repair speed further if the generator is less than 50% complete. (80 charges)
- Alex's Toolbox - Slightly increases repair speed. Tremendously increases Sabotage speed. Sabotaging does not consume charges. Unlocks the Sabotage action. (110 charges)
Addons
- Spring Clamp - Moderately decreases the repair Skill Check difficulty. Moderately increases the Skill Check bonus zones.
- Scraps - Adds 15 charges to the Toolbox
- Clean Rag - Slightly increases the Toolbox's repair speed
- Wire Spool - Adds 30 charges to the Toolbox. Slightly decreases the Toolbox's repair speed
- Socket Swivels - Moderately increases the Toolbox repair speed. Remove 15 charges from the Toolbox
- Protective Gloves - Moderately increases the chances to trigger a sabotage Skill Check. Moderately increases sabotage Skill Check success zones. Considerably reduces the sabotage Skill Check failed penalty
- Instructions - Moderately increases the Toolbox's Sabotage efficiency
- Grip Wrench - Moderately increase the chance to trigger a repair skill check. Moderately reduces repair skill check success zones.
- Cutting Wire - Sabotaging a hook does not produce an audio cue
- Hacksaw - Moderately increases Sabotage Speed
- Brand New Part - remove 30 charges from the Toolbox. When you start to repair a generator with a Toolbox consume this addon. You will repair the generator by 15% over 10 seconds. During that time you will receive 2 difficult skill checks. Hitting each Skill Check will result in 5 % progression each for a maximum of 25 % added progression.
Flashlights
- Flashlight - You may blind the Killer. (8 charges)
- Sport Flashlight - You may blind the Killer. Slightly reduces blindness duration and blinding speed.(12 charges)
- Utility Flashlight - You may blind the Killer. Moderately increases blindness duration and blinding speed. Slightly decrease blinding range. (6 charges)
Addons
- Wide Lens - Moderately increases the Flashlight Beam's width
- Power Bulb - Slightly increases the Blindness duration
- Leather Grip - Slightly increases the Flashlight Beam's range
- Battery - Adds 2 charges to the Flashlight
- Focus Lens - Slightly increase Blinding speed
- TIR Optic - Moderately increases the Blindness duration. Reduces Flashlight charges by 2
- Rubber Grip - Moderately increases the Flashlight Beam's range. Slightly decreases Blindness duration
- Low Amp Filament - The Killer does not see the Light beam (he may still be blinded by it). The Flashlight activation sound is muffled
- Heavy Duty Battery - Adds 4 charges to the Flashlight. Slightly decrease Blinding speed
- Long Life Battery - Adds 6 seconds of use to a standard Flashlight. Moderately decrease Blinding speed.
- Intense Halogen - Considerably increases the Blindness duration. Reduces Flashlight charges by 4
- High-End Sapphire Lens - Moderately increase Blinding speed. Moderately reduces the Flashlight Beam's range
- Odd Bulb - Each time you successfully blind the Killer slightly increase the Blinding duration of future blinds. Slightly decreases the initial Blinding duration.
Maps
- Detailed Map - Start with 1 Generator and 1 Exit gate Marked. Unlocks ability to track Generators, Hooks and Exit gates within a range of 16 meters. (20 charges)
- Rainbow map - Start with 3 random items marked. Unlocks ability to track Generators, Hooks and Exit gates within a range of 8 meters. (40 charges)
Addons
- Map Addendum - Start with 2 additional random items marked
- Yellow Wire - The map also tracks items in range of other Survivors
- Unusual Stamp - Increases the map range by 8 meters
- Retardant Jelly - Gain 5 additional charges
- Red Twine - Unlocks the ability to track Killer Belongings
- Glass Bead - Unlocks the Marker Ability on secondary action creating a marker that can be seen by all the Survivors.
- Odd Stamp - Increases the map range by 12 meters and reduces it's charges by 4
- Black Silk Cord - Unlocks the ability to track the hatch
- Crystal Bead - Every Survivor sees the Aura generated by the map when the owner activates it. Decreases map range by 50% and the map starts with 1 less item tracked.
Keys
- Broken Key - Reveals your aura to Survivors within 32 meters. (30 charges)
- Dull Key - Reveals Survivor auras within 32 meters (30 charges)
- Skeleton Key - Reveals the Killers aura within 24 meters (30 charges)
Addons
- Prayer Rope - Adds 10 charges to the Key
- Scratched Pearl - Increase the range by 4 meters
- Prayer Beads - Adds 15 charges to the key. Reduces the range by 4 meters.
- Eroded Token - You may channel the key while preforming other actions.
- Gold Token - Revealing a players aura also reveals any auras they can see
- Weaved Ring - Decreases channel time by 0.5 seconds
- Blood Amber - Revealing a players aura also reveals other player aura's within 8 meters of them.
- Unique Wedding Ring - You may see the obsessions Aura during the entire trial. Decreases your odds of being the obsession. Reduces the keys range by 8 meters.
- Milky Glass - You may open a closed hatch. Makes the Key brightly glow at all times. Shatters if you are ever downed, destroying the addon.
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@GhostfaceneedaNerf said:
as you can see for the nerf, inbalance now its balanced to protect crying baby killers, now insta heal its garbage and cost 7000 points, so much crying for a 1 use item that destroy your medikit, when you can insta heal many times with a green medikit or inner strength from Nancy or Steave 2nd Breath, lmao you are inmortal, and you have 4 emblems hook 4 survivors isnt even your objetive, as i said too much cry for a 1 hit more item that destroy your medikit, you are an inmortal being, if insta heal was nerfed i think now its fair killer can be hitted by survivors like "Friddayy 13th" videogame, i think the fair thing to do now its survs can kill the killer like in that game to balance the instaheal nerf.
You as killer should learn fill your 4 emblems, play with the food, and play your 4 emblems, rushing to kill all 4 survs in 10 seconds its the same than gen rush, its play 1 single emblem and objetive, insta heals make the match few seconds longuer, and give extra points to survs and killer, its very silly complain about a item that give more points to survs and killers, if you want rush to killl and destroy the match in 10 seconds its not the survs problem, but your lack of knowdgle about emblems problem, still got balanced in your favour and now its trash so stop crying plz.
I play as Surv and killer 50%, i have never complainned about a medikit since as killer i m aware i m inmortal and i cant be killed and i get points by just walking around and do few hits, instaheals and chase 3 seconds more a surv, never was a problem to me, in all case an extra chase wich means extra points, if you count there is killers like Ghost face that can oneshot survs in less than 3 seconds, its rediculous you complain about a medikit.
Immortality is not applicable. Death has no meaning until a death mechanic is added, so being unable to die doesn't mean anything either.
As the Killer your objective has nothing to do with your own Survival. So immortality is irrelevant.
Killers are terrible at repairing gens compared to Survivors remember. Different objectives means different mechanics, so a 1 to 1 comparison like that isn't meaningful. You can only compare shared stats like movement and vault speed for these types of things, and even then you need to take into account the 4v1 nature of the game.
Emblems punishing you for winning the game too effectively is why the system is extremely flawed even just in pure concept alone. A good ranking system will ensure that the most effective players are matched against the most effective opponents and are ranked away from the less effective opponents that they are being matched with. The Emblem system does the opposite due to punishing players for effectiveness when they should be rewarded and is thus ineffective as a ranking system.
As for the instant heals themselves. It is mathematically impossible for an instant heal to add less than 3 seconds of chase time unless you have STBFL since the successful attack cooldown is 3 seconds. And that's if they stand still right in front of you.
If they instead run in a straight line away from you. No juke attempts, loops or anything. It will take you 13.167 seconds for you to get the second hit.
If there is a pallet or window within 52.64 meters (which there almost always will be since that's 1/4th of the largest maps) then the Survivor will have enough time to reach it and extend the chase even further.
13 seconds may not sound like much but if there are still 4 Survivors alive then thats 39 charges worth of time stalled or almost half a generator.
By comparison a BNP is 15 charges worth of time save, making this 24 charges more effective.
Again the Survivor can use loops to extend this much further making this the minimum time sink for any Killer that doesn't have a gap closer. (which is why gap closers are so important).