NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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- NuclearBurrito
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Pre nerf it was actually really good for tracking survivors. It's range is much larger than your ability to hear crows and the noise notification means you can track survivors outside of your field of view. I play spirit so it also occasionally gives me an early warning when a survivor makes an unexpected juke.
Now however the cooldown and range reduction made both use cases unreliable and much worse compared to its ability to constantly keep tabs on multiple survivors at once.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/416115#Comment_416115
Everything you said right there is countered by what I said "That's not true at all, you just need to keep them alive and not camp, that's all you need..." Which is translated as "just go easy on them"
@tt_ivi_99 you shouldn't have to go easy on someone in order to do well in a system designed to track relative skill.
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@Mc_Harty I call BS. There are a lot of things they could change to make him worse. Buffing franks mixtape, removing the DW timer not going down during mending, making it stun the legion if he hits a new target and never if he hits a target already with deep woulds. Having him hitting you literally break your computer. Having him give you 5 minute mend times.
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@tt_ivi_99 "That's not true at all, you just need to keep them alive and not camp, that's all you need..."
So if you kill all 4... then you didn't keep them alive... and so you wont get 4 iridescents.
Also if you are facing potato survivors as leatherface then you would reasonably down all 4 at the same time and only get 1 hook per survivor without camping or tunneling.
That or if you run a slug build then same deal. 4 Kills in 4 hooks, no camping requried.
Or if the survivors are really non-altruistic.
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While many Killer (and survivor) perks need buffs, NOED is not one of them
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@Mat_Sella Pallet teaching?
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My problem with him isn't on that list. My issue is that he has no risk vs reward dynamic due to his power being extremely consistent in results. He doesn't have exploitable weaknesses nor does he have interesting chase mechanics, no I don't mean the vaulting that's fine, nor do I mean DW, rather I mean that other chase Killers either require setup or lose a significant amount of information when using their power. In theory that would be lack of scratch makes during Frenzy. However there is no opportunity to break LoS as a survivor in order to take advantage of it.
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Ye. I love game makers toolkit
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Tunneling is the only one that needs a nerf since it is both always unfun AND it is optimal. Camping is a terrible strategy and slugging is a perfectly fine strategy that doesn't have game ruining properties
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@RoKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/410229#Comment_410229
That is just another survivor trying to mess with you. Take a look at this image and remember never to take a survivor seriously again. We killers have to take care of each other. Have fun.
Note to self: Tapping generators without ruin is against the rules
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EVERYBODY SCATTER!!!
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What happens if your team 99% the gens and then pops them all at once? 17% speed boost? That's enough to outrun any Killer.
Also I wouldn't have a chase requirement, it's just silly and reduces the utility of an already weak perk
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You guys do realize tryhard is a compliment right? I'm just picturing someone walking up to me and yelling about out determined to win I am with an angry face. Like, wanting to win and trying your best to do so isn't a bad thing or a character flaw. That feeling of victory is why many people including me play games in the first place.
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/414108#Comment_414108
You do.. if you only have 3 or 4 quick chase wins when you can win 24.... You only got only roughly 17% of the points you could have earned. Why should you get points for things you didn't earn?
@TheBean because he (assuming only 3 chases) would have eliminated the actual necessity for those additional chases by killing them without them.
What exactly do you think those emblems are supposed to track anyways? Their stated intention is the gauge the skill of each player involved. This is a problem because less chases with the same number of Kills requires more of a skill gap and not less of a skill gap
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Quick and Quiet
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You should. It ensures the greatest odds of winning possible
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What's the buff being suggested here?
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And an icon showing how many stacks of each one you have
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@NoShinyPony I mean the solution there is the same as for the efficiency penalty. Give a visual indicator for the buffs/debuffs with a gold/red indicator while doing actions with the effect
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Why would I run any other ally tracking perk then?
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Toxicity is the quality of being toxic or poisonous. For example the Plague is VERY toxic and the legion and clown are pretty toxic too. While Myers isn't toxic at all.
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@Tru3Lemon yes but like. You need a way to tell if someone is tunneling.
Notice how my suggestion never actually checks for tunneling. It just adds a series of mechanical interactions that just so happens to make doing anything but tunneling a good idea
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@Tru3Lemon tunneling isn't a mechanic so you are going to need to be more specific about the trigger
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Perfect! Nice work
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32 meters is too far. Make it like 24 meters or something
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@Jesya said:
I suggested something similar in the pinned post. I don't think allowing the killer to hook without allowing the other survivors to gain points by unhooking, healing is fair.
IMO Survivors shouldn't be allowed to join any new game until the game they DC'd from is over for everyone. Their bodies should stay in the game after they DC forcing them to wait it out anyway so the point of DCing is negated. This solution doesn't stop killers from DCing to circumvent certain maps or whatever. But its a start.
@Jesya We could make it so that hooking DCed survivors doesn't effect their benevolence points. But no it doesn't SOLVE the issue.
Plus I'm more looking at the mechanical side of the issue rather than the points side. Like I don't really care about the hook score, but not being able to get the aura reading off of BBQ is gamechanging sometimes
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@WaffleFalafel you misunderstand. Dying light considers them alive so the survivors don't get the debuff until they bleed out unless the Killer hooks them
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Legion can be fixed without a rework
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*Implying that the change was implimented
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Well for one if we are going to have the 5% thing then they will need to be instadowned from frenzy if they are hit by it while at 5%. Otherwise you will need further changes
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Legions primary issue is his mostly non-existent skill gap. The difference between the best legion player and a noob legion player is that a good legion player has better killer fundumentals. And not some inherent skill with the power unlike Spirit, Nurse and even Billy
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This is my fix proposal:
Credit to and for inspiring me with some of these ideas. These changes are all intended to go together: -
@DarkWo1f997 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/413567#Comment_413567
It does, you cannot moonwalk survivors.
It doesn't make a positive difference in helping the legions winrate
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Bump.
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Body blocking itself isn't what is banable. Rather holding the game hostage is banable. This is where you keep people from playing the game and from leaving the game without a DC and NOT where you trap someone temporarily.
If the game can end without a DC then it isn't holding the game hostage.
Survivors can do it too by body blocking another survivor in the corner
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Throne of Lies
A Heist Gone Wrong
Battlerite
Slay the Spire
Deceit
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Survivor's definitely do. But I'm not sure about Killers
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In case anyone doesn't know. Killer Instinct is what happens after a survivor is hit with Frenzy who doesn't have deep wounds.
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Then buff alternative strategy's (in addition to something along the lines of the OP)
Sidegrades are the key. Don't nerf, and don't JUST buff, transfer power from one strategy to another. That means buffing alternative strategy's as much as it does nerfing problematic ones.
If you just nerf legions problematic strategy's without buffing his alternative strategy's then he is left with almost nothing to work with.
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"it's not a nerf"
"it's a nerf to these people"
Contradiction.
It is absolutely a nerf. Especially if it's 10 seconds, that's WAY too long.
"Simpletons" use that strategy for a reason, the alternative strategy's while more effective are also far harder for anyone who isn't a legion main to actually pull off. It's like saying Nurse exists thus Killers are fine.
And even then the better strategy's are still inferior to the majority of Killer's.
Legion is underpowered right now. Not because 4k's are impossible. Not because 4 stabs. It's a combonation of things. But either way right now he doesn't have a huge amount of Killing potential compared to other Killers (who already are lacking).
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Not bad but what would he get in return? Legion is far from OP so nerfs need comparable buffs to match, For example if we are doing this then we should decrease the fatigue time so he can use Frenzy to catch up for an M1 more effectively.
@Kiskashi I would like to point out that Adrenaline just removes DW without healing them if applicable. So they would need to first remove DW before they can get the instaheal.
IDK why it works like that but I might be able to find footage of it if I need to
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@Kiskashi of course. Asking for a removal is just counter productive as that is never going to happen and as a dev I would never do that. And asking for a rework is the equivalent of giving up (and also takes longer and is less likely to be added compared to the alternative).
Just because he as serious issues doesn't mean they are unfixable.
Mending times can be shortened and given skill checks, Frenzy speed can be modified and so can it's duration, bleed out speed can be increased or decreased, Franks Mixtape can be nerfed, ect ect ect
DO NOT CRY REWORK LIGHTLY PEOPLE!
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If there is anything Legion doesn't need it is a straight nerf. He's not Freddy tier, but he's still really weak.
Pair your nerfs with buffs
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@TMoser Gen rush is a balance problem. Not a survivor problem. As a survivor you should absolutely always gen rush and as Killer I will expect you to do so (or do it myself when I'm survivor).
It is never on the players to not use OP mechanics.
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Why do people always think you need a rework when sidegrades are a thing?
His issues are lack of a skill gap, counter play and his cheese.
All of these issues can be fixed without a rework, it's just a matter of putting them all in the same post.
For example I think he needs to do a half second roar when he enter's frenzy, during which time he looks straight up. That way his not seeing scratch marks weakness actually matters since the survivors can quickly dive for cover and break LoS in the time. Thus adding counterplay. It also means the survivor get's a que of when to drop a pallet if the legion is trying to bait it thus making pallet stuns more probable
A way to add a skill gap would be to prevent using Frenzy on a partial charge (or at least require the bar to be far more filled in order to use) since it would require more thought onto when to use Frenzy instead of it just being mindless. Also we could make vaulting drain the bar partially (10-20% probably) so he needs to be careful about it.
The ways to fix the cheese is to do the above and also either:
A: Make DW not go down in the legions terror radius
Pros: Mostly eliminates Moonwalking, Gives a psudo-whispers as a side effect
Cons: Punishes non-Moonwalkers, makes DW almost impossible to down with if you aren't multi-hitting
or
B: Make DW go down in a chase and increase the timer as necessary
Pros: Makes using 110% in a chase more viable, completely eliminates Moonwalking
Cons: Hard to balance for, Can feel unfair even when balanced (mitigated by the first 2 change suggestions)
From there it just becomes a matter of balance. Adjusting things like frenzy duration, damage, fatigue time ect until he has strength. Unlike things like Skill gap, balance NEVER demands a rework, especially given that Legion has a lot of numbers that can be tweaked.
Also, remove the power drain on M1, it's just stupid.
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You said he was using ruin and stabbing people (probably also using Surveillance). I don't see why this is a problem.
If he was using TOTH then you can cleanse dull totems to mitigate the effect. Otherwise you just have to split his focus. His frenzy isn't long enough to go crossmap.
Worst case scenario, you can complete gens faster than he can stop you even WITH ruin.
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PC and no
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@Sanmer no like. Frenzy doesn't take long to come off cooldown. So it drains the power gauge which then quickly fills back up just by waiting. Unlike spirit's power you don't need a full bar to use Frenzy