Final fool proof solution to moon walking legions HEAR ME OUT
Guys, I know it looks like a lot but I promise you’ll love this change. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking this through, give it a chance please?
LIST OF EDITS AND CHANGES FOUND AT THE BOTTOM.
If survivors do not begin to mend at all, their deep wounds timer will halt at 5%, and this can’t be abused as if they refuse to mend, they still can’t heal. This way, legion’s trying to moonwalk survivors will just be literally going backwards for the entirety of the match in frustration. If the legion attempts to use feral frenzy to down the survivor, the survivor will not receive damage to their deep wounds timer if it is already at 5%, removing their ability to spin around and catch up with feral frenzy for an easy down with a frenzy strike.
But what if he hits someone that’s mending with feral frenzy? Won’t matter, the mending bar resets every time you’re hit with frenzy remember? So therefore, your timer will once again not deplete past 5% until you try to mend again. Poor talentless legion wannabes.
Theres literally no reason to strike a survivor more than once with feral frenzy unless they’re the last or only target within detection radius that doesn’t have deep wounds already. Double swiping is totally ok, I do it all the time to whoever I’m chasing if there’s no one else within detection radius. It gives you a head start on their timer, which puts pressure on them. A third strike or higher, however, is completely unnecessary.
This won’t brake anything or make anything else unfair for either side. If you try to mend before it’s safe, you lose your fail safe and can be moonwalked, so you need to be sure you know it’s safe before you begin mending.
But won’t this make deep wounds feel useless? No, not at all actually. It will make it more powerful but less annoying. You can pretend to move away and then spin around to try and find them to scare them into stopping their mend and downing themselves. This is how it should be. They have to mend before they can heal. But they also can’t just cheese chases with feral frenzy. They’ve gotta try.
CHANGE: as suggested by @NuclearBurrito and @RotBb legion needs to retain his ability to down survivors with feral frenzy. The 5% timer immunity has been reverted.
WIP CHANGE: As suggested by @ClogWench “If you're looking for a means of changing just moonwalking without addressing the core problems with Legions power, maybe instead of not bleeding out during a chase, you don't bleed out in the killers terror radius unless he actively hits you more with FF. Opens up some potential perk synergies with terror radius perks without having the built in moonwalk strategy.” Which is important since eliminating the core issue allows the rest of his kit to be built around that change more productively.
Comments
This is pretty good actually, I would like to see their power/deep wounds mean something other than "you can't heal until you mend" though. I get people make this mistake of not healing thinking it will be okay and legion does get the advantage eventually but people already run adrenaline. Mend time increase addons need to go in this case though.
Not bad but what would he get in return? Legion is far from OP so nerfs need comparable buffs to match, For example if we are doing this then we should decrease the fatigue time so he can use Frenzy to catch up for an M1 more effectively.
@Kiskashi I would like to point out that Adrenaline just removes DW without healing them if applicable. So they would need to first remove DW before they can get the instaheal.
IDK why it works like that but I might be able to find footage of it if I need to
The buff is that their healing will take longer. They’ve gotta mend then heal to get back to healthy. Just mending leaves them open to a one hit down. And I’ve got several clips and a full YouTube video proving how effective he is at chases without abusing feral frenzy. If they want to mend, they’ll be punished if they do it in an unsafe area or the legion predicts they are trying to mend and comes back to down them.
The moment they they do so much as tap the mend key, their timer ticks down and 5% of the timer is only about 1.5 seconds. So if they stop mending, they go down.
I agree that that adrenaline should not remove deep wounds.
@NuclearBurrito Sorry, never had the situation occur for me, people will usually mend asap anyway, I meant it as a hypothetical thanks for correcting.
What's your incentive to mend at all in the first place? If you can't go past 5% then it's just like being slightly more injured and doesn't put any extra pressure on the survivor.
Yes it does. It’s not uncommon to find survivors who are mending by chance as legion. The legion can mind game and pretend to leave but swing around in frenzy and get closer to the survivor who is mending, cancel, and catch them.
If they think it’s safe, they’ve got to keep their fingers crossed because the moment the start mending, they’ll go down if they stop. They have to hope they aren’t found or a teammate accidentally leads legion to them in a chase.
I love legion more than anyone else on this forum and that’s guaranteed. I only play legion now. I do not play anyone else, and this is how I feel being a high rank especially this season. The first step to buffing him is finding a compromise first so there’s no outrage or review bombing. Wouldn’t you agree?
You misunderstand my question: why mend at all? Survivors are already facing Legion without healing, what's the point in mending in the first place other than making the screen not as dark?
Because if a legion knows what he’s doing, he’s going to catch you at 110% movement speed. Within 30 seconds.
Actually, maybe if his power gauge is at 100%, his movement speed increases to 115%. How does that sound?
Does Legion have some sort of advantage in a chase I'm not aware of? If he's not getting leverage in a chase with deep wounds, then he's just as vulnerable to looping, vaults and pallets as most other killers. Arguably less than most killers.
Something I usually do is use frenzy to catch up to them and cancel in front of them. Climbing back through a window you just came from closes the gap really well as they expect you to be chasing them in a circle.
even while stunned from frenzy you can stand in front of windows or pallets and prevent them from being used, causing confusion as they struggle to find another route, they never make it further than 5 meters before I get them when I pull that trick.
Is that why trapless Hags and Huntresses who don't throw hatchets are doing so well?
Trapless hags and huntresses don’t have a 135% speed ability that gives a guaranteed free hit meaning it’s a one hit down chase so stuff the sarcasm somewhere else.
That's still not a huge advantage and still doesn't give much incentive to mend at all. Survivors will quickly adjust their strategies and effectively render the power useless. Even if they choose to mend, they'll be smart enough to gain more distance rather than mend immediately after a chase, since there's 0 pressure to mend right away.
Either way, it stalls the match, keeps people out of service for longer and allows you to kick and regress gens more effectively.
Plus we haven’t even touched on how many benefits of legion builds would also increase.
Do you have a suggestion as to how to make him better?
It doesn't stall the match though. Less time is being spent mending and subsequently healing and more is being spent on gens.
And frankly no I don't have a suggestion for making him better cause I think he DOES need a rework. His power just doesn't synergize with how DbD plays and it shows.
So what exactly do you suggest for a rework?
Don't have a suggestion cause that's equate to just designing a new killer. Besides despite all the controversy the devs are never actually gonna rework Legion.
No
Then they just injured for the whole trial
If people are willing to argue that being perma-broken against a 115% Killer is a non-issue, I can't imagine being perma-broken against a 110% killer being not substantially worse.
That's a good point, this only really makes Legion just a slightly worse Plague
heal...
That's the point, why heal? People will choose to remain injured the whole trial.
You clearly stated that the Legion should have to commit to a 110% chase to get the down. I'm reminding you why that is bullshit.
Then you’re going to be downed. No one is “perma-broken.” It’s your choice to heal. There’s consequences for not healing. That’s not a flaw. It’s a challenge.
it's not a challenge, thats why he's not strong.
This is how people are already dealing with him. This change would only mean that not only will they not heal, the won't have to mend either. It takes away the only form of time pressure Legion has right now. 110% speed isn't great when you need to M1 to get a down. It's slow, and as I already said, pallets and loops really easily stall this out.
@TAG “perma-broken” implies you can’t heal. But since you know what is and isn’t an issue. Why not add onto this idea to make it better? Because “no it won’t work....” type responses don’t work here because A.) it hasn’t made it PTB and you haven’t tried it and are so quick to shut it down, and B.) It doesn’t help improve the original post.
Barely anyone is helping improve or contribute to the idea. Why bother replying at all then?
Its just annoying that I’m spending my time trying to help the game get better and people are so quick to shut it down without actually giving an alternative. Everyone thinks I’m nefing legion, NO, I’m not. I only play legion and I play killer mostly now because I don’t like the button mashing associated with survivor.
It makes absolutely no sense that I’d nerf an already weak killer that I play, but he a lot of people have a problem with playing against him and I don’t think a rework will make him fun to play. So I’m trying to find fixes to make him feel tolerable and fair without him losing the ability that makes him fun.
What makes you say that? Do you mean you get away from every legion you play against?
It's not a challenge to draw out a chase with a 110% speed killer
got anything constructive to say? Last time I checked healing was a choice. Not healing means you’re easier to kill.
I don’t like it. It’s a change that will make legion from an average B tier killer to a D tier killer. This is because a survivor can hold their bar at 5% and then loop the legion, with no worries about their power to vault pallets and windows, because feral frenzy won’t hurt them anymore.
Well I have no idea how I’ve been getting 4k’s in red ranks this season doing just that. Chasing and downing at 110%.
Why is it bullshit? Because you say so?
No, it’s bullshit because killers who are 115% speed like the trapper and wraith have issues with looping, so why make a killer who goes at 110% speed not have the ability to end chases with their power (that was designed to make short chases)
Right, I'm sure you play all you games downing people just with basic attacks and not Feral Frenzy. Considering no survivors are even really IN red ranks this season, that sounds like a bold faced lie. Turning Legion into a 110% M1 killer with no time pressure does nothing to help him. You're more worried about your idea not working or not being than you are about Legion actually being in a good position.
i more than often could, assuming everyone didn't dc or give up the moment they saw him out of frustration, which happens rather often due to the annoying nature of his power and his exploitable add-ons that i had to do deal with yet again today.
I mean just look at Nurse, a strong Nurse can down nearly anyone before Bloodlust 1, a strong Legion still needs Franklin's (a Very Rare add-on) to do so, and if you're near a pallet you can just swing over and delay things until then due to the fact that him hitting you the second time will cause him to stun himself and make him unable to break the pallet or jump over it. And say he does break the pallet you can still run away and make another attempt while other top tier killers would've had you on the hook by then
Alright I’m giving up on this thread. No progress is being made here. It’s annoying that people say “no... it won’t work..” but no one else is even trying to fix him with ideas or feedback of their own. It’s just “I hate legion” great how vague. I’m sure BHVR knows exactly how to fix that problem with such specific feedback like that. Especially with nothing to substitute or change my idea with. This community is truly impossible to please. There’s no winning. I should probably stop wasting my time.
I don't play Legion and would not be able to come up with a good way to improve them. That does not mean that I am incapable of offering my opinion on the idea as is currently presented. All I am saying is that if people are saying that being unable to heal does not matter against Plague, what about the idea you've suggested would result in anything more effective?
"Foolproof" is synonymous with "Delete Legion?"
Good to know.
I gave you multiple reasons why this idea would not work, guess it’s not good enough for you?
The fact that legion can’t actually just emit constant long range damage with no cool down or stun of any kind. His camera sits a lot lower than plague, plague can see scratch marks and hear survivors while using her power, she doesn’t have to get close to do damage. She doesn’t move slower.
You're just getting defensive because your idea is being pointed out to not work as well as you felt it would. His power really does not work with core DbD mechanics, and he needs a total overhaul. Just a new power altogether. And it's it's not really worth it to make suggestions to that cause it's not gonna happen.
Woah. Good one. That’ll farm likes for sure.
I'm confused. These all sound like arguments against your idea being a good one.
Not really. Next to no one has actually given reasoning as to WHY it won’t work. That’s my problem.
You're just agreeing that Plague, who is already considered extremely weak, is better than your Legion change
@RotBb “I don’t like it. It’s a change that will make legion from an average B tier killer to a D tier killer. This is because a survivor can hold their bar at 5% and then loop the legion, with no worries about their power to vault pallets and windows, because feral frenzy won’t hurt them anymore.” Is not very accurate because my experience with legion at high ranks has been positive. I’m able to down people and counter loops at 110%. THATS being ignored. That is annoying.
wow, that is the worst response to reasoning I’ve ever heard. Nice opinion. Sorry you’re confused.
She’s cheap. Legion in his current state, can be cheap. I want to be able to play legion, without milk duds for brains DC’ing when I want to play the game. It’s annoying. So I’d desperately like that to stop, so I can play.