NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
About
- Username
- NuclearBurrito
- Joined
- Visits
- 5,343
- Last Active
Comments
-
I want you to try to lose me rather than stall me.
Using a loop spot to gain distance for a juke is fine.
Looping me just to stall me for your team is extremely frustrating.
That being said keep doing it, you aren't playing for my enjoyment so if my annoyance is a reason not to do it then you are doing it wrong. The fact that such a strategy is optimal is a problem for the devs, you should absolutely keep using it in the mean time.
-
@praisetheentity but Frenzy right now is 6 seconds...
-
@Chaotic_Riddle do you think it would change the tier list?
-
@Raptorrotas said:
@Shad03 @ultimatefog @Ultima @Peanits
So is that ~5 seconds waiting time for that 25% or for the complete 100%
~20 seconds on a weakish ability like feral frenzy sounds rather long. But thats just because i dont know the duration:recharge ratio.
(Edit: god the tagging sucks on tablets)
@Raptorrotas actually it would be an 8 second cooldown. 3 of those seconds are the stun so only 2 are the recharge. Not that the 5 seconds is an official time or anything so take that with a grain of salt.
-
Is this change intended to be an overall buff, nerf or sidegrade?
-
@Mister_xD said:
killers are still allowed to walk, right?
or will the entity just block us in the basement for all eternity?
@Mister_xD no that would be basement camping.
Your getting blocked in the corner of the map.
-
technically it's not labeled rework
-
Just an explanation behind why I think these changes specifically are what is needed and solves his issues:
Standard play:
- Legion now moves at 5.6 MPS during Frenzy (140% up from 132%)
- Frenzy now drains at half speed during Killer Instinct
- Killer Instinct's tracking is now aura and thus is hidden by lockers, generators and distortion.
These changes mean he can reliably get to and injure a group of survivors, if they scatter then his increased speed and duration means he can still catch up to them. Making it aura means hiding is still possible if that is your playstyle, however it would require preparation before hand so it still isn't easy to do.
Standard Chase:
- Killer instinct allows the Legion to cancel Frenzy with 33% less fatigue time (2 seconds instead of 3). This only triggers if Frenzy is canceled manually and not if you hit a survivor with Deep Wounds or let the timer run out.
This change means that Frenzy can be used as a combo starter with the right preparation. You hit them once, get up close and then cancel, unlike right now the stun is much shorter allowing you to actually follow up with this strategy.
Counter play:
- Frenzy now has a 0.75 second startup during which time the Legion stops moving and looks straight up while roaring. This can be easily heard by nearby survivors.
- Vaulting a pallet is now only available during Killer Instinct (you can still fast vault windows whenever).
This means you can dive for cover or use pallets to cover your escape in order to break LoS, once broken Frenzy doesn't seen scratchmarks so you will get lots of distance from this if done right
Counter-Counter play:
- Legion can now preform break actions at 150% during Frenzy
This means that while yes you still have to deal with pallets, you can at least get through them quicker . From there while you can't see the survivor you can absolutely predict them
Counter-Counter-Counter play:
- Deep Wounds now bleeds out depending on distance to the Killer. The farther the faster. This is not effected by terror radius.
- Frenzy must be at least 60% recharged in order to be activated (9 seconds of charge from 0%)
- Stabbing a survivor already in Deep wounds drains 50% of the REMAINING duration rounding up with a minimum of 10 charges removed.
Getting stabbed with Frenzy is not the end of the world. He can't spam it and you can always just keep running in order to get distance giving you more chances to try and juke (which is possible because of the startup and pallet interaction)
Counter-Counter-Counter-Counter play:
- Mending now has frequent Skill Checks but takes 5 seconds less by default (10 down from 15)
- Exposed or Injured survivors start with half the charges when put into Deep wounds from frenzy (30 charges instead of 60 normally) this does not stack.
In addition to allowing for more perk combos this means that it is easier to let a survivor go for a bit, and then down them later while they are mending/healing. You let them go using the distance to speed up the drain and then rush over to them once it gets low. If they are injured then it would be very fast to hit them twice, let them go for 5 seconds and then chase after them again.
Recursion:
- Frenzy now has a 0.75 second startup during which time the Legion stops moving and looks straight up while roaring. This can be easily heard by nearby survivors.
- Vaulting a pallet is now only available during Killer Instinct (you can still fast vault windows whenever).
Now of course this change means that doing so isn't reliable, the roar means the survivors will know when you are coming so you won't be getting a sneak attack in without M1. They can simply avoid you and since it doesn't go down when you are right next to them they can wait until you lose them in order to start mending again.
Hey wait a second? This is already on the list, we have a loop! That means every aspect of him has counterplay INCLUDING THE COUNTERPLAY ITSELF!
-
Bump because it's still necessary
-
Until I see otherwise I'm assuming they are removing end game thus making all matches endless
-
no speculation 0/10
-
btw that's somewhere from 120-130%. Likely 125% which is about what the wraith is when cloaked.
-
Details details
-
@altruistic said:
“We need some way to track them.”
I have two ways, and they’re perk and add on free.
Eyes and Ears 😮
@altruistic ALSO disabled with Frenzy, at least ears anyways. You can't hear survivor noises while using Frenzy.
-
I'm sorry I had to
-
@Incirion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422908#Comment_422908
But can you name any other killer in the game that gets absolutely no benefit at all for hitting a survivor?
I'm waiting.
Can't do it?
Because there aren't any.
@Incirion Freddy when they aren't in dream state
-
Left is higher within each tier unless specified otherwise
SS: Nurse
S: Spirit/Billy (same)
A: Huntress, Hag
B: Plague/Myers (Same), Pig, Clown
C: Leatherface, Trapper, Legion (pre rework)
D: Doctor, Legion (Post rework), Wraith
F: Freddy
S tier is the one we want Killers to be in. SS tier stomps everyone always if good enough and A tier or less is stomped on by SWF. That leaves S tier which can combat and be combated by SWF.
This is good since we can buff solos to SWF power if the Killers are buffed to S tier.
-
Survivor Buffs don't even need the PTB sometimes
-
@Ultima Killer buffs/Survivor nerfs however?
Get into PTB, never leave it
-
@Jimmy_Voorhees I'm already on it for the Spirit bug (although that's just a bug I'm still waiting for it to be fixed)
I'm willing to also wait for this to be fixed too.
-
I mean I've stopped playing the game because of the Spirit audio bug. Once they fix that and the endgame I MIGHT go back in but... well they need to do that first.
-
@Weederick NOED gives a speed boost. Don't forget that, it's very important.
-
F.
-
There is 1 additional change they could make that would redeem this iteration of the legion:
- Feral Frenzy now downs survivors who do not have deep wounds if they are injured when hit.
They have to mend eventually since otherwise they die. But this way DW mostly acts more as a buffer to prevent Frenzy being used to instadown healthy survivors while also giving him downing potential in general
-
@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422363#Comment_422363
Then meta is an irrelevant term, because the most effective strategy can never be known for sure.
Ah but if we don't consider unknown strategies to be available then suddenly the Meta strategy is known by definition. It's still not the same as the most used strategy since most players might be using a strategy that is known to be sub optimal such as camping in this instance.
So it just comes down to if unknown strategies are available strategies.
If they are then Meta just refers to what we THINK is the Meta. And new Metas are discovered much like science is.
If they aren't then the Meta refers to the best strategy out of the considered strategies. In which case the Meta is invented by the top players like mathematics is.
-
@Orion still no. If the best known strategy is used by a minority of players then it is still meta. The question is if a strategy that isn't even KNOWN can be meta.
Meta is about effectiveness and not number of users by definition.
-
The meta doesn't change without an update to the game generally. However someone's understanding of it might. Thus when a new tactic is discovered it effectively changes the meta even if it was in reality the meta all along.
The question there boils down to: Are unknown strategies available?
-
@Spectro why limit yourself to 1 change? No one makes one change and stops (if they are competent) at most they make one change at a time to monitor the effects in isolation to get data for follow up changes
-
@tehshadowman33 said:
Seriously, you all must be completely delusional.
Plague is #########.
You can do more with Wraith.
Huntress is pretty much leagues above Plague.
@tehshadowman33 I would like to point out that Huntress is top 5. Being below her isn't saying much.
Either way Plague is better that Wraith in almost every other way and definitely better than Freddy.
She has tracking, offense, map pressure and very little downsides. Yes her power slows her down a bit. But Freddie and the Wraith slow down even more. And have fewer benefits.
Definitely in the top half.
Huntress > Myers = Plague
-
@Divinitye9 said:
Is Plague the best killer? No. Is she a mid tier killer? Absolutely. She is not the worst killer to grace this game by a long shot.
She lacks what most mid tier killers do, which is strong map pressure. Myers, Clown, Wraith, Trapper, all of these guys carry poor map pressure, just like her. What they do have is good surprise and chase mechanics, just like her.
Plague actually has surprisingly good map pressure due to the vial object duration buff. Its hardly the best but it's better than most Killers.
-
Probably going to be unnecessary soon but whatevs.
-
While she's hardly the best. I'd say she's in the top half of Killers due to her versatility alone.
She has offense from breaking survivors, even though the combo aspect was nerfed the fact that the broken status effect sticks if they don't take the time to give you an even STRONGER power means you probably won't even need it if you are spreading the sickness properly.
She has map pressure from vomiting on generators effectively injuring them and from having a ranged attack while using corrupt
She has tracking from seeing survivors being infected. It is actually one of the most skillful tracking methods due to the amount of game sense required to infect it.
Overall she's high skill mid-high reward. The fact that you need to do a lot to use her right (I certainly can't considering I'm not maining her) and yet still isn't top tier (unlike Nurse or Spirit who are other High skill killers) is probably a big part in why more people don't player.
If I were to buff her I would do 1 or more of these 4 things:
A: Remove the insta-heal but replace the broken effect with exposed
B: Make the sickness timer visible to the Killer
C: Increase the rate at which actions produce sickness drastically
D: Increase the projectile velocity
I feel like any of these 4 changes would be far more interesting than a MS buff.
-
@powerbats I would like to point out that I would EXPECT more people to use the exploit than before it existed even without knowledge of it. Simply due to the fact that when someone uses the addons right now it will be VERY effective at it's job (in that these Killers will be running into people who are mending far more often than otherwise). At which point it is natural to want to keep using the addons.
They just run the addons to try them out. See it get's results, and then keep running them. I did that myself to figure out what Huntress and Spirit addons to run until I started getting good and understanding the exact numbers.
I only know those exact numbers because I was actively looking for them. The average player will just have an idea of how effective it was by their results. Which we would expect to be very good. Thus you should expect a lot more innocents running the addons than otherwise. Just like I would expect a lot of people to run franks mixtape.
-
I wouldn't replace spine chill. It's a really good perk
-
I just viewed it as ALL characters that don't exist obviously have a 0% play rate.
-
Overall I'd say Plague is somewhere between mid to midhigh tier.
Basically she's about as good as Myers. She trades TR and vaulting speed for tracking utility and less setup time.
-
@PolarBear honestly I'm not sure. I've seen video's of her not losing it when being stunned AND videos of the opposite. It's definitely bugged somehow but I'm not sure what is actually supposed to happen
-
@gantes said:
Please OP don't give people who don't know how to play Plague yet another thread to complain mindlessly abour her while she's still a high tier killer.
Thank you.
What? No plz, that's not what this thread is for.
@KingB said:
What if they let the plague get her corrupt purge from a distance? But at the cost of having like 45 seconds of corrupt purge instead of 60; While keeping the full duration if it is done regularly.
@KingB then you wouldn't change anything relevant to this thread in particular?
-
@tehshadowman33 said:
I agree though with NuclearBurrito.
She needs the 115% movement speed while fully charged to stay relevant.
@tehshadowman33 wait what? Those are 2 mutually exclusive statement.
I'm claiming that 115% movement speed while fully charged is overrated since people would just loop her broken anyways.
-
Jane is just that thicc. I see no bug here
-
Agreed. Until I hear specifics I'm assuming Legion, Freddy and the endgame are going to be worse somehow. At least that way I won't be disappointed
-
@DocOctober if you aren't talking about the combo then what ARE you talking about?
The combo is what holding her power was used for.
-
@DocOctober Yes I know what the combo is for. That's why I've compared to an instadown so much. I'm saying that if you are ALREADY broken then the combo is redundant.
IF you are sick and don't cure yourself THEN you will be broken
thus
IF being broken is a threat THEN you want to cure yourself
thus (when combined with what I've already said)
IF you DON'T want to cure yourself THEN the vial purge combo is not a threat.
and
IF the vial purge combo is a threat THEN you want to cure yourself when sick
not because you are worried about the combo, but because the combo is at most as dangerous as being broken in the first place is.
Since the community seems to agree that "Being broken is not a threat" and "You shouldn't cure yourself against the plague" that leads to the conclusion that the vial purge combo is a non-threat and the nerf doesn't matter since they will be broken anyways due to not curing themselves.
If this was not the case it STILL wouldn't matter since you would be using corrupt purge, which resolves more like the Huntresses combo and works in the current version just fine.
Please tell me. Where is the flaw in the logic?
-
@DocOctober I know what it is. I play Huntress, I know what the deal with the combo is. I'm saying that it doesn't matter anyways since the playerbase agreed that being broken isn't a threat.
So answer this:
Yes or no. If you are sick will you cure yourself?
-
@DocOctober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/420026#Comment_420026
I think you don't understand what I meant. She's now slowed in all three stages of using her Power whereas before, that wasn't the case. The projectile speed is so slow that combined with her slows, running loops is the safest way to NOT get hit by Vile or Corrupt Purge, whereas before, due to increased holding speeds, she was able to gain enough ground for the spray to keep up with the Survivor.
Hence why I consider her slows a considerable nerf to her PTB self. There's a reason why so few people play her these days, she got crippled where it hurts the most.
@DocOctober you are missing the point. Why does any of that matter at all? Corrupt purge is better than you are giving credit as you can arc it OVER a loop (unlike hatchets which don't fall fast enough). But Vial purge again:
IS AT BEST AS GOOD AS AN INSTADOWN
So that leaves you with the question:
IS AN INSTADOWN DANGEROUS?
If yes then being broken is highly dangerous as it makes M1 "instadown" you. And thus a partial charge is enough since once they are sick they have to cure themselves
If no then the nerf doesn't matter since it wasn't dangerous to begin with so who cares?
Vial purge used to let her move at full MS yes. But that doesn't matter if she is being looped at that speed.
-
@ReikoMori Again. Being able to hold vial purge has no benefit besides breaking them. And breaking them is only valuable if being injured is dangerous for a survivor. If not using the fountain is a viable strategy for survivors, then holding vial purge MUST not be a strong skill.
IF holding vial purge is effective and dangerous to survivors THEN being broken is even more dangerous making holding vial purge unnecessary since you are either downing them due to them being broken before hand or downing them with corrupt.
IF being broken is a non-issue however and thus they can just not cleanse anyway THEN holding vial purge was never a valuable tatic to begin with.
Again. This isn't a claim of her absolute power, just a claim that holding vial purge was a meaningless tactic to begin with.
-
Wait who are you?
-
@DocOctober My point is that this was true before the nerf too. None of the changes made her any more or less loop-able than before since again. Breaking them doesn't require you to loop them in the first place so you should be looping them while they are broken.
-
@GodDamn_Angela said:
imo
"When all Pools of Devotion have been corrupted, all corrupted Pools of Devotion reset and The Killer automatically gains the Corrupt Purge effect. "
Is a nerf. Though I can see why they made the change.
@GodDamn_AngelaThis was as opposed to them reseting with no Corrupt Purge
-
I'm not saying she's super strong. Just that the nerf isn't that big of a deal since it doesn't really come into play in one way or another.
You are either downing people with corrupt and don't care about the nerf. Or you break them beforehand and down them with M1, again not caring about the nerf.