Nameless
Nameless
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@Hoodied said:
Okay I am scared cause I can't tell if its bait anymore myself
It's Sluzzy. That's all the context you need to come to a conclusion ;)
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The perk is already good as is but this is one of those changes that would solely buff solo queue and bring it more up to par with SWF.
So yes please, sounds like a great changd.
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It still grants the survivor with the key a free escape with this suggestion. Sure, you can't bring your friends along but you'll still get out only because you brought an item.
Also, hatch offerings exist meaning that hatch camping would still be a thing. They'll just wait at the location they already know it will spawn.
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This already was the case before the map rework. I recall someone making a thread about it when the first map reworks got live but they never reworked it at the time. Either way, yeah it's a stupid map ngl. Too big for a lot of killers and hardly any recourses for the survivors if you have bad luck.
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Ruin + Undying was definitely not nerfed because it was "overused" lmao.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2095161#Comment_2095161
Tunneling is the only way to win in high levels of play.
My opinion- make it so at the start of the match survivors can vote for Ds basekit on all survivors. but it gives the killer an extra perk slot.
And if your second point is true, then the only value of Ds is either mindgames (which you shouldn't get for free, take an obsession perk like for the people or new OoO when it comes out will be actually really helpful, I'll run self care and OoO with autodidact and see if the killer has any tracking perks like nurses, I'm all ears, BBQ, blood warden reveals you in the end game if your in the gate and many other perks) or BP which they won't give randomly.
BHVR have already said they won't punish tunneling as it's the only way to win. Why would they do this?
Just because the devs stated over a month ago that they view tunneling as a strategy atm and allow it, it doesn't mean their opinion on it could change. They literally stated before that DS was perfectly fine in its old abusable state. Clearly they changed their perspective on it.
Also it really isn't the only way to win. Yes, I agree that in some instances you have no choice, but claiming that you have to tunnel in order to win is pretty stupid. I'm a casual DBD player and I'm able to win without tunneling.
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@OmegaXII said:
You want to prevent tunnelling. Yes tunnelling sucks, I get it.
But let’s ask one question. Is it SO DAMN HARD to bring 1 DS out of 16 perk slots??
And don’t give arguments of DS being useless or no one brings it in solo queues. It’s FAR FROM USELESS. With just one DS it already forces killers to respect it and not tunnel. Even in solos where all other teammates don’t bring it, you yourself can bring it to force an obsession. Why is it so hard??
Asking for obsession basekit is basically asking DS to be basekit. This is very impactful and it’ll shifts the balance of whole game. Survivors will have more slots to put more second chance perks, and killer has to respect it. It’ll create a scenario where killer is against 20 perks because he respects DS but nobody brings it.
Unless there is a overall killer-equivalent buff, obsession base should not be a thing right now.
Honestly, I don't see why the current version of DS couldn't be basekit as it really only prevents tunneling right now. It's far from the broken perk it once was. It could shift the balance of the game, but seeing how tunneling right now is the playstyle a lot of killers turned to, I do believe something should be done about it because it's just not fun for the survivor side. Nothing is holding the devs back from compensating the shift in the balance if they were to make DS basekit though. Sometimes you're forced to tunnel a survivor so it would be silly in my opinion if they made DS basekit and left it at that.
Adding a default obsession to the game isn't going to change anything though. A lot of survivors don't use DS anymore now they can't really abuse it and killers are aware of this. The default obsession would be nothing more but a bluff and any killer that wants to take advantage of tunneling would still be able to do so because they know the perk isn't used a lot anyways. The chance of you getting away with is simply much higher than the chance of you getting punished for it.
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What even is this... Are people not supposed to complain anymore about things that are in their eyes broken when something completely different got fixed? Am I, as survivor, supposed to believe now that Iri head is perfectly fine because mories aren't problematic anymore? Am I, as killer, not allowed to point out how useless Trickster is after Wraith got buffed? What kind of logic is this?
Hell even if it's about the same thing, if that thing is still game breaking, not working as intended, or just too weak balancing wise, am I not supposed to give my opinion on it?
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If we're talking about the general idea of whether or not instant downs are balanced, then I'd say yes they are. At least for the current state of the game. If we're talking about specific perks or add ons then sure there's some bullshit stuff in the game that needs to be looked at. Iri head and Noed come to mind.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2086836#Comment_2086836
What else is there to advocate for besides just making his power better? It's so boringly designed that there isn't much else you can do to make it stronger beyond decreasing how many knives it takes to injure someone.
Also, the add-on is not as niche as you think. When suffering as Trickster, my go to add-ons are the ricochet + piercing knives. Tight loops become slightly more bearable as you can force survivors out of them, and you can make the shack completely unsafe even if the god pallet is dropped.
All this takes way too much skill and game knowledge to be worth the reward. But it's still something. It's not like say, advocating for Franks Mixtape to become basekit on Legion just because. The bouncing knives have an actual use.
There's multiple ways you can make his power better and decreasing the amount of knives to take a health state is one change you could advocate for. Making the Trickster 115% speed is another for example.
The hitboxes of objects are way too way too wonky in my opinion for ricochet knives to be a reliable buff. Even in straight tiles where the ricochet would seem obvious, the knives start flying in every single direction possible. Sure, it's a fun change, but my concern is that the devs would leave it at that because that's what the community asked for.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2086590#Comment_2086590
Like the second coming of Jesus? Really? It's the only unique thing that Trickster can do compared to other killers. I think wanting to make it base-kit instead of relegating this feature to an add-on is a fine enough thing to want, among the many other buffs that Trickster needs.
Do you not want him to get this change for some reason?
What good is "the only unique thing that Trickster can do" if it's useless balancing wise though? Sure, there's no harm in advocating for this to become basekit. That is of course if the devs decide to do more than just the common "buff" basically everyone is asking for, that being the ricochet knives. If the devs decide to do just this, you just shot yourself in the foot. You asked for a change, you got the change but it just doesn't do anything.
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Best Trickster experience I've had so far!
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@Exerath1992 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072111#Comment_2072111
I mean, I know sluzzy says some REALLY stupid and illogical stuff sometimes, but I'm man enough to agree with someone I typically disagree with.
We see this kind of new killer hate all the time, but look at how strong blight and twins actually are in practice. I think a lot of people will eat crow once some really good trickster players emerge
Wait but both Blight and Twins received buffs after they were released...
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2071472#Comment_2071472
because there no obsession in match so killer can blindly tunnel with no worry.
Allow me to introduce you this brilliant perk that creates an obsession and punishes the killer when you yourself are being tunneled! You guessed it!! It's Decisive Strike!!
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@DivineZak said:
Anyone else think D-strike is a waste of a perk slot now? It's only really useful if some idiot farms you and you still get slugged anyway, these killers are having a field day when they see no ds. I run in a swf so I never get farmed and someone is always running BT, the 60 second really is a waste of time where you could be doing something valuable. No one runs DS anymore I think they should change it but in a way were it's still run able or at least do something about the incessant slugging.
Wait I'm confused... You say that killers are having a field day when they don't see DS, but you also claim that DS is now a waste of a perk slot. How can a perk be both useless but also prevent killers from having a field day?
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2063196#Comment_2063196
Run any walled tile ever in existence. The few knives that land will decay quick enough.
I mean at that point you're relying on the Trickster being bad and not being able to land their knives before they decay. Trickster just needs a whole rework in my opinion or just something else. You can't make the power actually useful without being oppressive, similar to Legion, and that's purely because of they don't require skill to use.
Like... What do you suggest they would change? Make him 115% speed and he'll be able to catch up faster, and land more knive hits in maze tiles and the chance you do have as survivor for the knives to decay, will be even smaller.
Make the knives down faster? Devs would have to be really careful with that because he can throw them so fast.
Make the knives not decay at all? That just makes being downed more inevitable...
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@MadLordJack said:
Have you been playing a different killer? Trickster has an insane amount of counterplay and you will not go down at all unless he commits to chasing you as a 110 killer. He might be the least oppressive killer in the entire game.
He is nothing like Old Legion. There is no comparison to be made there. Run a tile tight and he can do nothing. Old Legion downed you no matter what within a set timeframe - Trickster downs you if you screw up and run into the open, same as any other ranged killer. Only he does it worse.
How does one dodge 60 knives thrown at you in rapid speed.
Don't get me wrong, I believe wholeheartedly that the killer is by far the weakest killer in the game at the moment but unless you're in a maze tile there is actually not that much counterplay to him. Even in a maze tile he'll most likely land some knives. The point I'm trying to make is that yes the killer is stupid weak and it'll take him about 30 minutes to down you, but it's basically inevitable that he downs you because of how low his skillcap actually is. Playing the Trickster doesn't take any skill, the killer itself just sucks.
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2063093#Comment_2063093
Ill let you know in a month when players have had a good amount of time to learn exactly how the timings work and what perks and addons flow well with the new killer.
imagine expecting to have figured it all out exactly in a day....
You really don't need a full month to get a general idea of whether or not a killer has potential. Especially with a killer like the Trickster where there's literally nothing to figure out. It's an unimaginative, straight forward killer. There's hardly any timings to learn, I'd say the add ons are pretty clear which ones are the best and even the perks mostly speak for themselves...
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Legions whole power is about injuring people, which means he lacks lethality. And injuring people really only happens if you're playing against brainless survivors that group up a lot. As survivor you know exactly when he's in Frenzy as it shows the mending bar if they land a hit on another survivor and you know from the terror radius whether or not he's coming. Honestly, if you start running the opposite direction, they're still not going to catch up with you despite their recent speed buff and then what? What exactly did the Legion gain from this?
They injured a survivor, left them in the hopes of being able to get to another survivor in time. But if they don't, which they really won't in most scenario's against competent survivors then that's about it. No downs, no hooks, nothing. Just one simple injure, 2 at most.
Scott actually made a video about a potential "rework" for the Legion where he actually doesn't change a whole lot, but still ends up making the killer thematically more satisfying, making him more lethal, and also boosting his actual power making the Legion way better at what they already do best.
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The DBD overlords blessed us with another Sluzzy post. It's a sign that the DS nerf is a righteous path.
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This perk isn't going to become meta for the simple reason that Dead Hard is just much easier to use. You extend chases by a lot and you don't have to even use a single pallet. You could also use it to get distance to get to a window so it's more accessible and it doesn't really require as much skill as Smash-Hit is going to be. On paper, I'll take Dead Hard over this anyday.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
I keep noticing people say Spirit takes no skill, Freddy takes no skill, Pyramid takes no skill etc etc and they say these killers need nerfs to become skill based.
Yet there exists within the game many things on the survivor side which take no skill whatsoever and that's apparently not a problem? take for example a map like Lerys, you can literally just hold forwards and mash space bar a few times to waste minutes of a killers time. This map isn't alone there exists a number of maps similar like meat plant or midwich for example, or areas of maps which can waste minutes of time with no skill required. Add in a few crutches like dead hard or sprint burst and the amount of skill required sinks even lower.
Is it because the people balancing the game focus too much on statistics instead of the experience? do they spend more time in excel than in the game? or is this just part of the survivor side priveledge, where the game has to be created in such a way that the majority find it fun at the expense of the minority?
Most things that take no skill are slowly getting changed or removed. The map reworks (with the idea of removing busted set ups at least), The DS changes, old MoM, old insta heals, the key changes, ...
I'm all for those changes. Reward players for their skill and not because they have an item, addon or perk that grants them this, but this should apply to both sides. I admit though that sometimes the "no skill argument" doesn't really make sense. I'd argue that Pyramid Head actually takes a lot of skill for example. But killers like Freddy or add ons like iri head, they don't take much skill or effort to use. Freddys playstyle is extremely easy to pick up and he has all these small benefits to him like the slowdown add ons and the lack of a terror radius. I don't mind Freddy being a strong killer, but I don't like how easy it is to play the killer.
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It depends on whatever it is people are asking to be nerfed. If you told me you wanted something to counter old mories for example that's just as insanely stupid and strong, then Idk what to tell you other than you should stop drinking before logging on here. Granted, it probably makes things more bearable on the forums so maybe it's not that bad of an idea.
Point is that you don't create new potential broken stuff just to counter the old bs stuff. If something is broken or really needs adjusting then do it. I'd argue that this very same mentality is an actual problem the devs have atm.
"Oh wait the totem spawns are terrible? Yeaaahh nahh let's not fix that and give them a perk that plasterfixes this."
"What? There's a killer tunneling people off hook 24/7? Good thing we got a plasterfix for that, right?"
It gets to a point where certain perks are becoming a necessity just because of flawed game design. Gen speed, camping, tunneling and totem spawns are arguably all examples of this.
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The killers design is something different but I don't hate it. It's a bit simple which makes it not so horror like to me but that's a personal opinion.
As for the gameplay I just played a few games against him and as him and I can tell you that the experience was just miserable. As killer you take frustratingly long to down people using your ability and when you do get to a point where you could use your ability I found that just giving em a good ol' smack on the head was just a time saver.
As survivor you just feel helpless. He's got the same flaws Deathslinger has when you go against him. Hardly any time to react and to be quite frank it just doesn't matter because he spams it anyways. All short loops suddenly become useless
The gameplay is just so frustrating for both sides...
Also, it's all just so unimaginative... Just another slow killer with projectiles. Nothing really new and I was kinda hoping the devs would come up with an original power.
It's just lackluster.
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They buffed his speed but is he as fast as the yellow Windstorm right now though? If so, great they finally caught up to the changes the community wanted and asked for lmao
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@sluc16 said:
I never mentioned survival time. And it doesn't matter if you did a lot or not, surviving is the main objective and you should not derank if you did. Also I neve said you should rank up, at the very least you should stay in the same rank, but actually deranking makes no sense
The main objective is to escape and this is an objective you have to work for with your teammates, so yes if you hide all game and don't do anything useful to reach your teams objective, then you should depip in my eyes.
I'm not saying the current system is perfect btw because it's really not
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I think NOED is a balanced perk. You really don't need to dedicate your entire build to it; I just use Detectives Hunch and the survivors overall have enough time to cleanse all totems if they play well. In soloqueue in the redranks, survivors usually just immediately leave. Let the killer have his petty kill, you and the rest will still escape. That's why people call it a bad perk. It gives 1 extra kill but that's about it.
However, that doesn't change the fact that it's extremely frustrating to go against as survivor, especially when you're the martyr of the group. You get instantly downed, hooked and most likely will die and all because of a stupid perk that grants the killer this basically.
I'm all for a NOED change because of this. Make the killer work for it to activate or so, so as martyr you know the game at least didn't just give the killer a kill because they equiped a perk.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
I'm still kinda stuck on the response not_queen and the devs gave in the QA stream when the question of if there's plans to do something about tunneling etc came up.
They said that in some situations it's 'necessary'. And I am trying to think of a single situation in which that'd be the case.
Now, you could argue that when taking out frustration against a toxic swf it's 'justified', but... that's fighting one problem with another (toxicity vs toxicity).
And all other situations... I can't see necessity there. IN-UNIVERSE one could argue that killers do this because they are scared of the entity's punishment, but we are NOT in-universe. We are all humans (mostly) playing a video game against other humans. So, when exactly is scummy gameplay 'necessary'?
Cause all scenarios I can think of that don't involve genuinely toxic survivors would have tunneling/etc mean the killer has their ego hurt and can't stand the idea of not getting an EZ 4K in... And catering to people like that is... not good.
Let's say I hook a survivor, see someone with BBQ and go in that direction but I can't find anyone. Now behind you, you hear that the survivor you hooked is being rescued. Now you have a choice:
A) you completely ignore and hope you find someone soon
B) you go back to the only place where you know for a fact 2 survivors are.
Most killers will go back because it's just the safer option. You know where half the team is, the other half could be across the map cleansing a totem or hiding in bushes for all you know. Then something magical happens called "solo queue survivor teammates". Rather than taking the chase, they instantly vanish and what's so beautiful about this is that the odds of the killer finding the moaning, bleeding survivor that was recently unhooked is much higher than the rank 10 locker Dweet that just got the unhook. As killer, you don't really have a choice here. You would have wasted so much time if you looked around for too long to find locker Dweet and just ignore the other survivor, so you go for the recently unhooked survivor to try and keep the pressure going.
Here's a scenario that happens surprisingly enough A LOT in solo queue
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@lagosta said:
Gideon has almost no windows on the top half of the map. It seems to be a deliberate choice to give pallets instead.
Perhaps, but why are there god pallets back to back then? It's not like the existing windows are weak either on the map, and I'd be surprised if the total amount of windows on the Game is fewer than let's say Sheltered Woods, or Thompsons House.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1979692#Comment_1979692
Exactly. Something completely different means that the early game slowdown went out of the window.
Well as long as it has the same goal to help out the killer in the early game, it didn't go out the window. The core idea will always remain the same. Just the way they want to reach that goal changed.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1977846#Comment_1977846
Yeah they kinda also announced we´d get some sort of early game mechanic, that slowed the pace down.
That idea kinda went out of the window. We´ll see something similar with the key nerf.
It didn't though. They literally said during the last stream they did they had been working on it and it evolved into something completely different.
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I prefer they take their time with nerf or rework. They announced it will happen, so all we need to be is patient. No need to rush this or pressure them.
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@Elena said:
I can understand both sides.
Yes, representation is extremely important and the media is the best place to show it.
However, you could argue that dbd is a game all about working cooperatively and trying to survive a merciless killer, and therefore, representation isn't a top priority.
Unless you're going to claim representation somehow makes it so that you'll no longer have to survive a merciless killer in DBD, that argument is fundamentally flawed.
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Bloodlust doesn't necessarily kick in after making a mistake though. Sometimes, loops are just ridiculously strong and chained one after the other. Sure, they don't always spawn like that but it's RNG so it does happen and depending on the map you're playing on it happens more often or less often. I've had a stupid set up as survivor on the reworked Father Campbells chapel yesterday. It was a long junge gym into the shack into another normal loop. If you're a solid survivor, the killers odds of catching you right there with just the normal loop pallet, the jungle gym and the shack windows are just extremely low. I suppose that's more of an RNG problem which also screws survivors over at times, but nevertheless bloodlust in this scenario does plasterfix the ridiculous set ups to a degree.
That said, for any other normal loop bloodlust really becomes just annoying to go against. When you're in a chase with a killer and they just run around the loop a couple of times until they get bloodlust 3, you really feel powerless as survivor because you're stuck. You can't really leave the loop because the killer will be right on top of you so you're just screwed and not because the killer outplayed you, but because the game gave it to the killer.
So yeah I do see the similarities with Dead Hard where you don't exactly need to be skilled to outplay the other side. It's just a game mechanic or perk that grants you this. I'd say I see more people using Dead Hard than bloodlusting killers but it should be something to keep in mind for future updates either way.
In general they should just fix the RNG, get rid of the ridiculously strong or weak set ups and make them overall solid set ups where both sides have a fair chance. The killer should be able to get the survivor, but the survivor should also be able to have a shot at escaping. It probably requires a lot of work though, so I don't see it happen anytime soon. Once, the RNG is gone and all loops are normalized then bloodlust should in my opinion be removed. Dead Hard should be changed too, because like you said when we're talking about "granting a free down or escape" they have similar effects.
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Nowadays, I usually play in a 3 man SWF and if we queue up with a baby survivor we only have one goal: the baby needs to live. We'll literally jump in the arms of the killer just to get them out lmao. We're not a serious SWF and we enjoy memeing around so not caring if we live or die is at the core of our SWF anyways
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Still trying to figure out a good use of the yellow bottle. The hits I usually get from it are hits I would gotten faster with the purple bottle, because I don't end up waiting the 2,5 seconds for the effects of the bottle to kick in.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963719#Comment_1963719
Survivor don't Spam secound chances, the only thing witch should be baiskit anyway is the Nerfed Ds.
What do you mean? The whole survivor meta is built around 2nd chances? DS, Dead Hard, BT, Unbreakable, ... . Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for using those perks. They're the strongest survivor perks, hence why they're meta.
Personally I don't see a problem with killers sacrificing a lot of perks slots on gen regression. If they're confident enough they'll find survivors and don't need tracking perks, don't need bloodpoints, or are confident enough they'll perform well in a chase without chasing perks, why wouldn't you use gen regression perks?
As long as it's balanced, I don't mind. Old Forever Freddy, or maybe even current Freddy slowdown add ons are an example of were this wasn't the case, and then I'm all for change.
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Killers DC'ing shouldn't increase your penalty, or penalize you at all. This is most likely a bug and you should report it.
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some maps are better for survivors, others are better for killers, so yes the realm you're playing on can have a significant impact on your performance as killer, or as survivor for that matter.
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I really like both ideas to be honest. Solo queue desperately needs some form of communication to bring it more on par with SWF and the part system would make repairing gens less boring.
Not sure how good of an idea it would be in terms of the current gen speed issue though. Like, atm there's plenty of reasons to traverse the map when you're looking for totems for example or even gens. Wouldn't be too much of a stretch to suddenly bump into a part while looking for a totem, going for a rescue or you're just randomly wandering around and suddenly you won a lot of time. Gens aren't going to be as boring tho, that's for sure.
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@Velvetcake1027 said:
No they aren't. DC penalties was created to help tunnelling camping killers out. Killers complained that survivors was DCing and messing up their camping and tunnelling fun. After all... It's all about the killers having fun right?
Omg yes you're absolutely right! Those sick killers definitely didn't enjoy seeing people pulling the plug at all after they nodded you goodbye on the hook!
And those survivors you're teaming up with love seeing their teammates quit! The pettier the reason the better!! We all know it's those killers fault in the end.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1950419#Comment_1950419
Hawkins barely has any safe palettes. I think it has like 3 in the entire map. Most of the palettes are unsafe and are there to just buy a few seconds, unless the killer is bad and falls for palette stuns all the time.
The Game needed more palettes, it has no gyms and very few windows so it's basically just dead zones with a few safe palettes. The extra palettes were necessary but I think too many of them are too strong. This has become the easiest map to loop killers on for a long time, and I'm not even a good looper.
That said I'm glad, because after Autohaven has become Killerhaven I'm glad to see a map that helps survivors more. BHVR need to balance these maps out better some are just way too killer-sided and some are too survivor-sided.
Balance wise, I don't think much has changed to the Autohaven maps though. Bloodlodge maybe, but that kinda was an insanely strong map for survivors.
If you're talking about deadzones, well those also already existed before and correct me if I'm mistaken but didn't the devs announce that they were aware of the deadzone problem?
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This whole thread is pure chaos and ngl it made me giggle a little.
Why shouldn't there be counterplay to specific perks though?
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I just get my tissues ready for whenever I'm playing killer and get queued up for this map. Here I was thinking the devs learned from previous mistakes when they actually reworked good ol' Ormond, but those cheeky buggers tricked us.
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I haven't seen a Twins player in years and each day I'm celebrating that fact
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@DecisiveDwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947198#Comment_1947198
Because why should I suffer if I got stuck with a bunch of potatoes that AFK'd or decided to kill themselves on first hook and we all know killers just want that 4k so they just abuse this and kill you
Your teammates being terrible is a completely different thing that could be resolved without punishing the killer. Also what do you mean killers that abuse this?
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@DecisiveDwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1947083#Comment_1947083
Killers jobs are so easy all they have to do is run to the doors and protect them they don't have to worry about being seen and chased off
Yes, what's your point? You haven't really answered my questions? The killer beat you so why is it you feel like the game owes you an easier escape? Why shouldn't the killer be rewarded for playing well for example and make it harder for survivors to escape?
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@DecisiveDwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1946869#Comment_1946869
Sooo you want to basically remove my last hope of a door patrolling killer when I have a key by letting him have a notification that I am working at the hatch no thanks until door spawns are sorted I along with others will not find this balanced
Why do you think you should be having a higher chance of escaping through the doors, or the hatch for that matter when the killer already beat you? How is that not entitlement? You had a fair fight to escape and the killer ended up on top. Why is it you believe the game owes you good door spawns or a hatch escape? If anything, shouldn't the killer be rewarded because he won?
It just doesn't make sense to me at all...