MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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- MrPenguin
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"I don't understand what's so bad about The Spirit herself, I think she rewards smart play and punishes survivors who aren't paying attention enough."
The problem is she punishes you even if you ARE paying attention.
"That's right, the most popular counterplay against Spirit is useless with one perk."
A perk isn't counterplay since you don't know who the killer is and you need to equip it before the match. You need to be able to do something while in a match about her that's not hoping you can see the tiny glow of her shards if she's not wearing a skin or behind a los blocker, and then still taking a blind gamble about where she's going.
There's plenty of good suggestions out there to make her better, but just like nurse, my fellow killer mains see the slightest of changes and lose their collective minds and declare the character will be dead and how they need to be oppressive in all situations just because there might be a god group, 4 man swf, in their match. Completely ignoring the other 95% (hyperbole) of the game where the character is unhealthy.
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@Little_rubbery_ball said:
It's a challenge, and as long as the perks required arent blocked by a paywall (like you said) it's not that bad (might be grindy and hard though). That being said, seeing the requirements of some of the challenges, it's gonna be impossible to achieve from green ranks up (challenges from tome IV, i'm looking at you).
With all due respect I don't see "have x perk and use it" as a challenge any more than just the challenge itself. Break pallets, ok sure, why do I need brutal though? That doesn't make it challenging, just walls it behind rng and grind.
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As a killer main, its fine. Haven't had barrowed go off on me in weeks because I just chase the other guy.
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My fiance is now playing nurse on console and destroying whereas before they struggled to down 1 person. She's fine balance wize in my experience. If anything she's easier to learn now with flannel being common.
Being unfun is subjective, but that's a whole other conversation.
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Ment to vote for buffing other killers, ouch. We really need a revote option.
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I'm a killer main, who also plays survivor now and again. Toxicity is an inherent problem with any multiplayer game with opposing sides. Whats fun for one side will not be fun for the other except in rare cases. Generally, killers wont have fun unless they kill the survivors, survivors wont have fun unless they survive. These two things are mutually exclusive. As such, one side having more fun cost the other side to have less. There's other factors that go into fun of course, but these are the main 2.
Example: Mori's feel good to use, the animations are cool to see, you have to chase the survivor twice, and hook them once, so they feel earned. Easier kills are good for stress relief and fun, but the survivors get screwed by it.
Example 2: Keys feel good to use, you came prepared, survived long enough, and found the hatch so it feels earned. Easier escapes are good for stress relief and fun, but the killer gets screwed by it.
You would have to make losing fun or completely change the objective of the game.
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Maybe not balance, but certainly a point for needing to be changed in some way.
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We already have numbers on some perks, and gameplay should come before lore otherwise the leave game button wouldn't exist and a flashlight in your eye wouldnt make you drop a survivor. This feels like a flimsy excuse. Feeling isn't a great metric deciding between these, because of placebo effects and whatnot. Did those crouch speed add-ons help? Who knows. How fast was the difference? Noticeable but barely. Competitive or not, if I'm deciding between two add-ons, numbers would help and benefit everyone. Like if I want to see if Ghostface's detection range add-ons are worth it, there's nowhere to go.
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Her power can be boiled down to "the survivor has no idea what you're doing for x seconds after activating, or while standing still. When activated you get crack speed.". She gets too much info while the survivors can MAYBE see the tiny shards on her get brighter IF she doesn't have a skin, for the speed she goes at while invisible. Scratch marks, footsteps, grass, breathing, and pain sounds (stridor before anyone mentions IW). Survivors need to bring in perks they might not use otherwise just for a chance against her, and if she's running x perk or y add-on, it won't matter anyway.
Then her add-ons make it even worse. Prayer beads has been beat to death so you already know. Fathers glasses just guarantees that if you're injured your screwed more than her power already does. Saya gives her insane lunge range (like a whole killer shack if not more). Amulet has too many effects in one for the strength they are. A lot of her purple add-ons have pink level effects.
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Depends on a few factors. If the last person gets out with a key its fine. The problem is when 2+ people escape because that forces you into a draw, or even a loss, and possibly depip because that's multiple people you now cant hit, hook, chase, ect. You can't do much about it except run franks and hope they don't pick the key back up.
SWF makes the item completely busted however. If one person has a key, all 4 have a key.
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This strategy only works on low ranks, potato survivors, or certain maps. If you get your stalk of anywhere close to the survivor they should go down instantly with no chance of letting go and getting into a chase to begin with. Don't pop it 32 meters away or stalk in the wide open.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
Like many other issues in this vein, the issue doesn't stem from the power of the killer, but from the strategy of the survivor.
YOU don't think there's no counterplay, but that's just because you don't have a good strategy against her.
Spirit is my 2nd main and at high ranks I'm often outplayed by good survivors. They have strategies that work against the spirit that you simply haven't thought of or refuse to utilize.
If you have a hard time winning a mindgame at a loop, maybe you should abandon the loop in a way that forces the spirit to phase or run.
Utilize perks that make avoiding her easier as well as perks that make it easier to throw her in the wrong direction because you're invisible when she phases.
There are things you can do. Perhaps you're not skilled enough yet, but with practice you can beat a spirit.
If you're worried about losing perks just to take care of one issue, welcome to the killer reality.
keys - franklins
rush - ruin
pallet loops - specific killers - spirit fury - enduring
jungle gyms - bamboozle
those are the ones that come to me first.
If survivors develop skill they won't need killers to be nerfed to stand a chance.
If killers continue to be nerfed, killer players will get better and adapt while your skill level remains stagnant and you beg for more nerfs later.
Just wait until the worse killers are balanced towards the middle. You'll find yourself at a skill based disadvantage regardless of the killer you face.
Perks should never be considered counterplay for a killers power. Counterplay is something you do in response to something happening in a match, you can't change your perks in a match to counter spirit. It's a little different playing killer, the perks you mentioned for killer work in every single game because all survivors are the same. It'd be like if doctor was the only killer, everyone would run calm mind. Franks is an exception, but you can see if the survivors have items before the match even starts.
If you want perks to count as a counter we need to know what killer we're facing, which would be horrible for the game, or make all killers countered by the same perks across the board, which would also be bad (old mettle of man says hi). As it stands the Spirit needs to be changed in someway so the chase is not favored so highly in her favor. She doesn't need to be gutted, but the survivors need information to make meaningful decisions against her.
As a killer main myself, she takes barely any effort, and when I do win I feel like its just because the survivors can't do much and just lost the 20% chance they had to guess right. There's too much info I get while the survivor gets none. Scratch marks, Pain sound (stridor says hi to IW btw), footsteps, moving grass, and collision. It's too much, especially combined with the crack speed she gets. Meanwhile survivor gets ?????? nothing. Maybe a little glass glow, but that's not always visible depending on skins, lighting, and LOS blockers.
My fiance plays spirit, can barely get 1-2 kills by camping, tunneling, and using NoED with any other killer. Plays spirit and goes straight up to 4k almost every match. The spirit is the issue from my experience and it'd be very hard to persuade me otherwise given my experience as and against her.
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Games too buggy with too many crashes and too many soft locks to realistically do that imo. Getting stuck in a tree, stuck in an animation, outside the map, ect. If they ever get their game stable (lmao) then sure.
Even then you would have to stop people from suicide. Then stop people from afk or letting themselves get caught. Then how would you tell if they are getting caught on purpose or just bad? If someone doesn't want to participate in the match they're not going to.
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The hair was too buggy. I cannot tell you the amount of times I found a survivor because their hair decided it was time to stretch and do a 360 in the old system.
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It's not the players fault the challenges are dumb. Disturb crows? Crows are only on the edges of the map sometimes. Futhermore as a killer if you are in chase the survivor is in front of you disturbing all the crows instead. Its a bad challenge with no foresight, and that's just one example. Its only going to get worse as the challenges get more dumb too, especially with this "in a single trial" bs.
If they were just achievements that's one thing. But the fact this is time limited and some people have paid actual money for the pass, they're going to want to do it as fast as possible. If the battlepass was just match xp or something it would be different, but its not.
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Spirit and Spirit. I don't dc but damn does she make me consider it.
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I'm playing nurse on console, she's fine if you land your blinks (hard on console but doable if you're ready to suffer). It's probably dedicated servers.
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@Lufanati said:
I think they legitimately can afford to run two perks to counter spirit, especially considering IW is great against nearly every killer, not just spirit. But of course, they shouldn't have to, and having to run meta builds that shut down a killer's power entirely is no fun for either party.
This would be fine if I knew it was spirit BEFORE the match. Perks are not counterplay since you dont know what killer it is plain and simple. IW is a good stealth perk, but stealth doesn't do much rn, so unless its a spirit there's no great reason to run it over meta perks. People seem to forget counterplay means seeing something THEN countering it. Not the other way around.
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#NerfSpirit
Killer main btw. I don't feel like I outplayed anyone with Spirit, they were just unlucky. The chances are weighed so far in my favor its not even a joke.
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She needs actual counterplay. No, perks don't count because you can't counter something if you don't even know it exist yet, and you select perks before the game.
I don't have fun as a survivor with this "flip 2 coins and get 2 heads to win" play she causes.
I don't have fun as a killer knowing I won just because I won the coin flip that's weighed in my favor.
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He still shuts off aura perks and spine chill isnt even meta because stealth play sucks rn. I think if someone takes a detection perk weaker than aura perks, and a non-meta perk, it shouldn't be nulled just by Myers existing. Give him an add-on that does that and call it a day.
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they need to chill, Myers doesn't need special treatment.
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I just want actual counterplay to spirit thats not "flip two coins and get two heads". And before anyone says it, no, a perk you need to bring in before you even know what killer it is is not counterplay. I think having killers inbetween Spirit and Billy would be ok. we do need more viable killers, but they also need actual skill based counterplay.
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@Lost_in_the_Fog I agree, other people do not however. I can't blame them really and I'm not going to push my views on anyone. If they feel like they are having a bad time and want to leave, who am I to stop them. I'm just another faceless stranger somewhere, why should they care?
@ChilledOcean I agree. I usually play killer and I don't camp ever. Good strat or not that's not how I have fun. Although with some of these rift challenges I might need to to have a reasonable chance of doing them. If someone d/cs I'm just like "wow sucks for you guys" and move on. As a survivor it's definitely very disheartening when someone d/cs.
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If you really want to counter spine chill moonwalk to gens. Can't do anything about premonition though.
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"I can see the challenges, they are there already, but I can't do them because the devs said so."
I think this is what they meant.
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The problem I see is that its not really about how hardcore or good at the game you are. Its how lucky can you be. You need to hook someone in the basement, make sure they don't get out, and also get everyone else in there.
So ideally, you want the basement in a good spot, a small map, a specific build (i.e. Agi, iron, Grit, some 4th perk), probably a good basement killer, all survivors to be altruistic, to down the first one near the basement, no one to get far away from the basement afterwards, and no one to d/c on the way to the basement. That's not being good at the game, that's luck. Sure skill will help, but its mainly luck.
Additionally if any one survivor is doing a challenge like "do x gens" or "disturb x crows" they dgaf about that person on the hook, they're going to be focused on their challenge so no basement for you.
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It's not about "teaching the killer a lesson" its more of "Well I'm not having fun or even able to play the game so bye, on to the next one. Why should I suffer for 3 random people to have fun." Don't get me wrong, I don't suicide unless someone wants the hatch, but this is what I hear from people who do.
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Basically this. I'm not going to play differently because someone got angry. I get it sometimes, especially if its spirit or something. Even though I don't DC myself, if someone's not going to have fun then I understand if they just want to join another game and not waste their time. Just sucks their teammates suffer for it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/796131#Comment_796131
Uncapped is not really an option. There is no need to have farming Matches during Double BP Events which reward 1 Million BP afterwards.
Category Cap removed - so much yes! Really tired of doing Stuff when I already maxed out BP. I mean, should I not do any Gens when my Objective is maxed?
I can see where you're coming from but, farming matches require both parties to agree to it as any one side can dip whenever they want by playing normally. If that's how people want to spend their time I don't see why they shouldn't be able to. All you're doing is cutting out the waiting time in lobbies for multiple farming matches instead. There's already a hard cap of 1 mil BP iirc, so its not like it'll last forever either.
I play normally during double BP, other people want to farm, doesn't stop me from playing normally. I don't believe it'll be a massive movement, as even now people don't stick around just to max BP gain except in rare cases. But that's my experience.
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I use every once in a while. It's not really about handling campers or anything for me personally, but so my team doesn't waste time trying to save me if I'm being camped or having all 3 come for the save. I don't think its amazing, but it has its use. Could definitely use some love.
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Just remove the cap, its not super common to hit it anyway and the only justification I can think of is to slow the grind, which no one wants.
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Letherface is weak even with his chainsaw so I wouldn't really touch him. Billy however can be pretty oppressive if he snowballs. Especially with charge speed and steering add-ons he can be really nasty pretty easily.
The problem is he is a sort of necessary evil in the current state of the game because of how strong survivors are. One-shots are always going to be annoying, especially when you have someone like Billy who can just sorta spam it. If they wanted to change him they would need to either give his chainsaw a bigger miss penalty, give it a cooldown, or change his add-ons. But as of now he can still be decently looped unless the map screws you.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/796056#Comment_796056
Yeah, have fun following survivors while you recharge your power
its only ~3 seconds unless you miss a swing and can be further reduced by add-ons. Oh no, they gained half a meter on me, what ever will I do. Guess I'll float here for a bit then go through the wall/pallet/air and hit them anyway.
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Omega blink got nerfed and her base power got changed so survivors gain 0.5 meters more than before during fatigue basically. Hardly enough to turn her from the strongest killer to trash, she is still probably the strongest killer or at least still in the big 3. The biggest change was to her add-ons.
They made her flannel common now to help players learn her, so that's nice.
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The cooldown is pretty small after fatigue unless you run triple blink, and survivors only gain 0.5 meters compared to before iirc. She's most likely still going to be the strongest killer.
A lot of Nurses are saying adding something else to keep track of, no matter how small, has killed their fun with the character and that's their problem with the changes.
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Someone did the math and survivors only gain 0.5 meters more than before iirc. Oh no, so dead, draw a Legion face on her sack head.
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I personally dislike playing against Myers and know others who do, take him to the other list boys. Just don't find him fun at all. I'm fine with Ghostface though.
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Could work as its own game mode. Kind of like some horror movies where they try to kill the killer. I don't think adding more stuns will work in the current game mode and not be busted.
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I really don't see why we have them locked to begin with. You already have very little add-ons and perks to work with. Just seems like an unnecessary hindrance. It doesn't make you grind more, it just makes the grind harder and more annoying.
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It doesn't take no skill, but all you really have to learn as survivor is hold m1, learn gen locations, when to save, and how to waste the killers time. Learn that and you'll be fine. As survivor I feel pretty relaxed unless its a Spirit or certain really strong add-ons.
Killers have to deal with 4 people instead of 1, cut chases short, learn their specific killers power, mind game, know where survivors will most likely be, when to drop chase, and know when to slug or patrol a certain area to keep up pressure like the hook or a gen.
If you mess up as a survivor, you might get punished and have a myriad of second chance perks to make your life easier as well as teammates to help. Killers mess up and the games over and you might have noed if they didn't cleanse, and then they break the hex and get the save anyway if you did.
This is just at a basic level, there's more to each role of course but these are some of the main skills that you can get by on. This is my experience in the game at least.
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Depends on who it is. Some people hate him because they're traumatized by release Legion jerks moonwalking and having no real counter play even if they didn't. So think of Spirit, but they were still weak (and we see how people hate spirit.) It was just a question of how long you could prolong the chase so everyone else could get out.
Others hate that he makes them hold m1 for longer due to mend and heal.
Others hate that they get punished for being grouped together. I personally know a few people who think Legion is strong because they always run in a herd even after they know its legion (rank 1 btw lel).
He's still the weakest killer in the game (if not he's fighting for that spot) but people generally don't have fun against him. If they do it's because they know they can bully him because of how weak he is.
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He's pretty popular and has a lot of fanboys and girls. He's not very difficult to play (difficult to do well with if the survivors know what their doing, but that's almost all the killers). If 1 survivor isn't paying attention or just bad and you get free stalk the whole team suffers and if he hits tier 3 at the wrong time the game can be over instantly. So you end up with an iconic killer who is really strong against low-mid ranks who can get lucky and is pretty basic to play.
All this contributes to him being a pretty common pick depending on rank. Needs a higher skill ceiling for high ranks and something to not destroy casuals and people having a bad game just by existing and looking in their general direction.
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Does its job, goes farther then agitation but takes longer to get there.
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I dont think just because he doesn't have literally 0 TR means he's not a stealth killer. He's just not as stealthy. 16 meters isn't much, 8 with M&A is basically right on top of you. Considering its always on with no way to counter it, he's fine as is in the stealth department imo.
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Legion. Others already stated why.
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We don't need more legion nerfs thank you. Mending doesn't take too long imo, but if anything should speed it up maybe medkits, not a perk you can always have with you.
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Legion by far. After the changes they were not only unviable, but also unfun to play. Went from Legion main to only using them for a daily.
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@Macmillan said:
They are literally destroying the nurse, it took me over 200 hours to learn to play with her and now I will lose all my progress. All because of weeping survivors.
They did not "destroy the nurse". She's fine, a good nurse will still do nurse things and if you were any good with her you'll be fine. The changes mostly punish bad nurses and people who absolutely needed omega blink or 3-4 blink nurse to win imo. Her power cools down while your stunned, you get most of it back anyway before you can move unless you chain.Even then you'll have 1 blink back when your fatigue ends. Just use power recovery reduction add-ons if the recharge bothers you that much.