MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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- MrPenguin
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@MrPenguin said:
DS is not fine and there's plenty of easy solutions to the problems it causes as this discussion shows. Hopefully it gets changed in some way. Abusing DS is very easy to do and opens up a lot of things my team of survivors should not be able to do, pretty much ignoring the killer whenever we choose either for a save or otherwise.
Ah my mistake, but thats still not tunneling. They chased the Nea, not tunneling. Tunneling is focusing 1 survivor exclusively until they are dead, ignoring anyone else you might see. The Nea would not have even been hooked, the killer would have turned straight away to come for you.
In this scenario maybe you were the only one they saw and maybe the Nea should be better at chases and led the killer away from the hook. If the survivors mess up they should take the hit, unfortunately that means you're back on the hook right away.
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DS is not fine and there's plenty of easy solutions to the problems it causes as this discussion shows. Hopefully it gets changed in some way. Abusing DS is very easy to do and opens up a lot of things my team of survivors should not be able to do, pretty much ignoring the killer whenever we choose either for a save or otherwise.
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@KingFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1183066#Comment_1183066
Simply not true, though.
Imagine this scenario:
Killer hooks you, goes to chase a Nea.
Nea is downed.
While Nea is downed, Meg comes for the save. You get saved. A second later, Nea gets hooked.
The killer comes back to the hook, chases you and downs you. But you don't have your DS! Even though, you know, you were actually tunneled.
You weren't tunneled though. They chased and downed 2 other survivors before they even saw you again. There's only 4 people in the match, do you really think the killer should have to chase every survivor besides you before they're not TuNeLiNg? Ridiculous.
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100% agree, everyone I know irl either switched to survivor or stopped playing entirely for these reasons. Myself included.
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@Bunnie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180992#Comment_1180992
why do you austomatically feel you should get the 4th kill. no your work for it. period. this is what i mean. slugging for a 4k. you think this should be easy i should be easily able to take over the game when i want to turn the tables in my favor. NO. you will work for it. survivors are catching on more now and being a bit more stingy which is good sometimes. and you want them to take hatch away? if thats the case maybe killer isnt for you.
They are working for it, they still have to look for the last survivor and the one on the floor has a bleedout timer. Also according to you the hatch is heavily killer sided so taking it away shouldn't bother you. Now its a problem to taker it away, make up your mind lol. Honestly if you're struggling when the game is so survivor sided as it is, maybe this game as a whole is not for you. I'll keep on winning my easy survivor matches.
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@beaubird13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179235#Comment_1179235
I know that survivers are op but in my opinion I think killer is a bit more strong because of solos and u mostly play solo sometimes with one freind
You are contradicting yourself. Survivors can't be OP if killers are stronger, even by "a bit". Yeah solo survivor sucks just like any other team based game. But we cant start nerfing killers just because people don't have friends that want to play. We should give survivors tools of communication in the game more than just "hur der I point" to bring them up to level with groups. At the same time we need to buff killers to deal with these groups who have communication.
I can tell you, when I play survivor with my friends, it's the easiest matches I think I have ever had in a PvP game... and thats with one of my friends thinking Nurse can float faster than survivors can run (rank 1 btw).
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@Bunnie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178186#Comment_1178186
killers always act like hatch just pops up in all its shining glory right in front of us the moment the 3rd dies. lol like stop. 9 times out of 10 you find the hatch and before you even get the third and by the time you hook the survivor youve closed the hatch before the entity has even taken the body. And then the gates are 90% of the time so close you can stand between them and see both exits. And lets say you didnt close the hatch. You have a better chance of finding it before i do becaue you dont have to duck and hide and creep and crawl. You want to slug the last two and take the hatch away? Lol. Id be all for that if the exits always spawned on either side of the map. But we both know that isnt the case.
You literally cant close hatch till they're fully dead what? No the hatch is not survivor sided, nor should it be. There should not be a free escape for the last survivor just because, hatch needs to go. Yeah exit gates spawning right next to each other is dumb, and needs to fixed, but we can fix gates and remove hatch. I was just saying that is the reason WHY the second to last is slugged. Lets say if the killer got a 0k by the time gens were done, the exit got blocked until SOMEONE died and everyone became exposed. Survivors would flip out. But if we're going to give free escapes to survivors we should give free kills to killers. I'd rather we do neither.
@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178186#Comment_1178186
As a killer, you have a much easier time finding hatch than survivor - you can walk freely around the map and your character is faster. Also, if you and the survivor find the hatch at the same time, merely standing close enough to it can stop the survivor from being able to get in...and because of dedicated servers, you can close it before their jump animation. If a survivor finds and escapes through the hatch - they deserve to get it. EGC is already way more advantageous for killers than survivors in this scenario.
GOOD. The hatch should NOT be survivor sided nor should the EGC. The hatch shouldn't exist, all it does is screw the killer out of a kill they should have gotten, in no possible way does a survivor deserve hatch, that's just entitlement. "Oh look I was LUCKY enough to find hatch first, screw you bye." Yeah you totally earned that escape, not just a coin-flip on who finds it first. Also killer closing the hatch first was in BEFORE dedicated servers, its intended. Do more research next time before you blame everything on the servers. The EGC was just a solution to survivors holding the game hostage because they are salty, killers have no way to hold a game hostage without bugs or map design mishaps. However, its a better solution that the hatch just screwing killers more than they already are.
When I play survivor (which is most of the time now) I just sit near an exit gate and wait for hatch to close, 50% chance of getting out for free, even though I don't deserve it since you know, my team failed their objective.
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@Aaron10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178137#Comment_1178137
So you just expect for survivors to feed themselves to you? It's far too easy for killers now you want to be fed kills like there's no tomorrow? I don't understand your state of mind. It just boggles my mind how you could even think all this is fair to survivors. Like.... Wow...
What? How did you get any of that out of what I said? Maybe this game is not for you if it gets you so frustrated.
Survivors are stronger than killers as a team, just not for brand new players like yourself. If you feel that way get your killer to rank 1 and stay there for a bit. According to your post it should be easy.
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I waiting for him to accept these challenges he's getting and seeing the video.
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yes this is the obvious choice, don't take the bait. You can't blame the killer for wanting the 4k and trying to get it the same way you can't blame a survivor for seeing bait and not going for it.
The main reason (to my understanding) killer slug the 2nd to last is because hatch exist.
It really sucks when you are destroying a survivor team, or worse, are barely coming out on top, just for the last survivor to be like "lol, nope free escape, screw you". Remove hatch and put EGC in its place and maybe it will change.
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Camping, if they're not doing it just to get people upset, is useful if survivors keep swarming the hooks, you waste a lot of the survivors time and work towards your goal. Do I like doing it? no, not at all. So while I won't camp, I can see why people would in some scenarios.
Tunneling is the fastest way to do your objective (kill the survivors), unless that changes tunneling will happen. Asking killers not to tunnel is like asking survivors not to do a gen past 30% until they get other gens also to 30%.
This could maybe be changed by giving the survivors as a team, collectively, 8 hooks or something and once 8 hooks have happened at all they all die. No real incentive to tunnel anymore if it worked that way unless you just wanted to be toxic or the survivors unhooked right next to you (guy is still injured while the other is not).
A lot of killers don't consider bloodpoints a win, so it doesn't matter, a lot of killers don't consider pipping a win, so it doesn't matter. For most killers a win is killing all 4 survivors.
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Legion easily, character and add-ons.
After that Pig (especially add-ons) and nurse's bugs and add-ons (no not bringing omega/chain blink back, just getting rid of the meme add-ons)
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-survivors see Legion or deep wounds on another survivor- -survivors now all do their own gens- -Legions power now hurts Legion more than the survivors-
Also thanatophobia is objectively a bad perk. Again, if the survivors spread out it will go from bad to useless real quick.
If the survivors are bad any killer will work, Legion included.
Long story short Legion has too many restrictions on their already underwhelming power to be a good killer against any competent team. It really boils down to either:
A) Survivors are competent, spread out, now you're just an M1 killer with a non-lethal power that stuns them.
B) Survivors are not, all stay grouped, get killed (because type of players also usually can't loop).
C) Survivors are not, stay grouped, but loop you because you have no chase power and you're most likely on a survivor favored map since that's most of them.
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You're supposed to go down eventually, the game is not 1v1 its 4v1, going down eventually is the norm. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the majority of the community is complaining about how long survivor ques are because of the lack of killers right now because the survivor side just way stronger and less frustrating to play, so a lot of people stopped playing killer and either switched to survivor or just quit.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174699#Comment_1174699
I see you have now altered your DS chase to 20 seconds to try and distance yourself from the very obvious tunnelling that you were doing in the example from your previous post. How has the survivor had a free health state from DS? If you had left them alone they would have got healed, that's 2 health states, you chose to tunnel right off the hook so they couldn't be healed and DS gives them their fair 2 health states it isn't free because they had to use a perk slot for it. Stop this idea that DS is free. It isn't, it costs a perk slot.
I'm a red rank survivor and a red rank killer..... why the ######### would I be biased towards survivor? I play both sides and just play the game for what it is. A game. I don't need to be hyper serious about every second I am in a game. The fact that people like you on here who are massive cry babies when it comes to playing killer and every survivor perk that is available always default to "you're biased towards survivor" whenever anyone says your ideas are wrong, just because I don't subscribe to your bollocks about how every survivor perk needs nerfing because it isn't fair on you is not survivor bias. Sorry to disappoint you by discarding your theory.
DS is a 60 second tumer that is correct but why should you or any other player get to dictate how that perk is used? As a survivor I don't tell the killer what perks he can and can't use or how they are used, has anyone ever said you can't use pop goes the weasel on the same gen twice? Has anyone ever said you can only use devour hope to mori someone once? No, but killers expect survivors to only use perks in a way they deem acceptable. Why should I get the opportunity to decide what perks the survivor uses and in what manner they get used when I am a killer?
The 60 second counter doesn't escape the fact that the stun is 5 seconds the actual effect of the perk is a 5 second stun. Laugh it up about how they used x pallets or x windows or x loop the fact is that if they bought another 40 second chase from you off a 5 second stun, they HAVE outplayed you. You kept on that same person, desperate to get them whilst everyone else is fully healthy smashing gens. Your choice, your failure. Nobody else's.
There is no requirement to hook every person before you hook someone a second time. My own personal rule on that is if the survivor is healed after coming off the hook then I am fine with going for them again if I come across them, 2 health states is fair. Obviously if I am the Plague many don't heal so I just give them a fair amount of time before I consider putting them on the hook again, this may involve leaving them on the floor if I run in to them quickly and letting them get revived but like I said I don't play like a prick and don't have any desperate need to get 4 kills no matter what. Even though I often do get 4kills.
The second chance perk category is also a stupid idea. Do we ban killers from using more than 1 hex? Do we ban killers from being allowed to bring in multiple slowdown perks? Every time someone gets hit and thanatophobia gets activated, ruin gets disabled until that person is healed. When pop goes the weasel is used all other slowdown perks and add ons are disabled for 40 seconds. Sloppy butcher and coulorophobia can't be used together one cancels out the other. If such a think happened you would be up in arms about how unfair it is on killers, your bias is showing far more brightly than any bias you claim I have.
My issue with the DS rework that people who play killer constantly beg for? Because the majority of these people who beg for changes to survivor perks and survivor add ons are just ######### at the game. So many of them cried about toolboxes and how a commodious could blitz through multiple gens at light speed and they dodge lobbies if they saw a toolbox. The toolboxes got nerfed massively and what happened? The same killers came on here crying about how toolboxes weren't the problem, gens are still going too fast and now prove thyself needs changing, gen times need to be increased and maps need to be shrink to the size of a postage stamp etc. There will never be an end to the survivor nerfs because ######### killers will always struggle. The good killers in the meantime get an easier ride as each survivor perk and item gets put in the toilet. I am sick of hearing the constant bitching and moaning about perks and characters. I say that from the perspective of killers moaning about survivors and survivors moaning about killers. Just get on with the game, stop bitching and moaning about every little detail!
I won't be responding any further as you're incapable of seeing anything beyond a desperate need for 4 kills. Can't play without getting hit by DS and having a tantrum? Maybe don't play the game anymore! Can't lose without having a tantrum? Maybe don't play the game anymore!
"I see you have now altered your DS chase to 20 seconds to try and distance yourself from the very obvious tunnelling that you were doing in the example from your previous post."
"I won't be responding any further as you're incapable of seeing anything beyond a desperate need for 4 kills. Can't play without getting hit by DS and having a tantrum? Maybe don't play the game anymore! Can't lose without having a tantrum? Maybe don't play the game anymore!"
These part alone shows you clearly didn't fully read or comprehend my post as I clearly stated getting a 4k should not be the norm, stated I personally don't really have a problem with DS (as I said, I don't like to play that way) in most of my matches, nor anywhere did I throw a "tantrum" but ok bub. I wasn't "distancing myself" I was pointing out that even in a shorter chase, the perk is still strong. Can't have a discussion without throwing insults, not comprehending arguments, and putting words in peoples mouth (hmm, like a tantrum maybe)? Maybe you shouldn't post anymore. Happy to know you wont be responding as you're clearly not someone who can be involved with anyone who disagrees with you and are just wasting everyone's time by not being able to see past your need for baby mode. Git gud baby main.
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Survivors being nerfed more =/= survivors are no longer stronger. If you wanted to say survivors got nerfed more times sure. But that doesn't prove anything else.
Lets use numbers to display. Survivor power level was 50, and lets say killers were a 20. Ok We nerfed survivors by 15 and killers by 10. So now survivors are 35 and killers are killers are 10. Now you're saying "look, survivors lost 15 and you only lost 10, therefore survivors are weaker now". As you can (hopefully) tell 35 is not lower than 10. The game is still survivor sided.
The fact of the matter is maybe survivors have been nerfed more times, but the game is still overall survivor sided, and has been survivor sided for a long time.
Now if you mean survivor sided as "the devs don't care more about survivors" that's a much longer issue and yes, they do care more about survivors. Watching dev streams and looking at responses will show as far as I've seen.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172916#Comment_1172916
A 45 second chase is absolutely nothing to do with DS. If you're saying it took 45+ seconds to catch someone and then they used DS to get another 45 seconds. You've tunnelled off the hook as DS only lasts 60 seconds and you're saying you have chased for over 45 seconds and STILL got hit by DS.
A 45 second chase is not caused by a 5 second stun. It is caused by the survivor using a 5 second stun to get away from you and then they continue to outplay you for 40 further seconds. DS is 5 seconds.
The killer playing "differently" because they know someone has DS. Oh no, a killer has to worry about tunnelling someone off the hook and allowing someone to actually play a match of a game they paid for? I mean there are in a lot of cases 3 other survivors they could be going for instead of the easy 1 hit down.
Moronic responses about how killers have to play differently because of DS and how it should be removed/nerfed piss me off. I don't even use the perk, I don't see the point as it is 5 seconds but there is a constant stream of absolute bollocks about how it ruins games for killers. Killers ruin games for survivors by tunnelling everyone off the hook for a mori but that's OK because killers have it soooooo hard in the game.
I'm a red rank killer I almost never encounter a DS stun and I regularly get 4 kills. The difference between the way I play and the way the ones who constantly cry about DS play? I don't play like a prick
There are multiple uses for DS, yes. The fact is it is a survivor perk to use however the ######### they want. There is nothing in the perk description or any game tutorial saying DS can ONLY be used when you're getting tunnelled off the hook. Killers camp and tunnel and claim it is a "legit strategy" but survivors are meant to sit under hooks asking to be sacrificed otherwise they're toxic ######### and only use perks when a killer has determined it is OK to do so.
It is so tedious to see the constant whining about a 5 second stun and the delusion that is gen rush. Stop camping, stop tunnelling, pressure the survivors, pressure the gens, get as many kills as you can. It isn't always going to be all 4, nor should it be.
Stop looking for excuses in toolboxes, instaheals, prove thyself, DS, Adrenaline, BT, Dead Hard. They're all perks in a game to use. Get over it.
Ok, 20 second chase because some jerkwad ran up and unhooked right in front of me or 2 seconds after I hooked someone then the DS user just body blocks me from hitting the one who saved. Then you have people like me and my friends, who will run up immediately with BT and DS up (if its up) so no matter who the killer picks to chase they lose. But the killer was totally tunneling and camping right? The point is DS is much more than a 5 second stun. It's 60 seconds to make ANY play you want and waste the killers time, then a 5 seconds stun followed by a chase that would NEVER have happened without the stun AND free health state.
"outplayed for 40 seconds", you mean ran to one of the 4 pallets nearby or the 3 windows? OH, or maybe you meant the huge loop in the middle of the map. Yeah ok lol.
Moronic responses about how killers don't have to play differently just because 1 person brought in DS and is abusing it and so it shouldn't be changed bother me. I do use the perk because that 5 second stun or 60 seconds of free reign are pretty strong. But if you don't use the perk then it being changed shouldn't have you shook 🤔also I never said anything about mori's, but fyi those are 1 time use very rare offering while DS can be reused every game, and a better comparison would be keys (even though keys can be kept, but thats another topic). But like you said mori's are "in a game to use. Get over it."
I used Legion and Ghostface in high ranks and rarely got DS, and when I did it was usually because the survivors were so bad and got downed so fast DS was still up lol. Other times people are just throwing themselves at my because they have it and Im sorry I cant tell the 4 Blendettes or 4 Kates dressed the same apart and/or I don't have a 60 second timer for every survivor going. Also like I said, I got DS, Im sprinting for that unhook because what can the killer do about it? Nothing. Still got the 4k in a lot of those situations.
DS is not a problem for me personally most of the time. That's because I play in a very un-optimal way because that's how I like to play (I dont like standing next to a hook just waiting). Without some fundamental change in how killers kill survivors (you know, their only goal) tunneling will be THE best way to kill everyone in most cases. You might as well ask survivors "hey, do a gen only to 30% then jump on one across the map" or give killers a perk similar to DS like "every time a survivor finishes a gen that survivor becomes exposed for 60 seconds". But, as a survivor player, or just a player in general, I can see how the perk gets abused to hell and back. Especially in conjunction with other things in the game.
A perk can have multiple uses, but DS has too many for how strong it is. Survivors gen rush (aka just doing gens, like they're supposed to) and hook bomb and claim it is a "legit strategy" but killers are supposed to hook everybody once before chasing anyone a second time and only sacrifice or mori when the survivors say so, otherwise they're toxic. The survivors are supposed to do gens, but the gens go to fast. The killer is supposed to kill survivors, in the current kill system, tunneling IS the fastest way.
Im not saying or did I even imply it should be easy 4k every game, thats dumb. The delusion that every killer tunnels and camps is tedious, the delusion that gen times and map design combined is not a core issue in the game is tedious, the delusion that against skillful survivors if you're playing anything lower than upper mid tier you still have a lot of control is tedious.
I guess we should just never change anything ever because they're "in a game to use. Get over it." Bring back old MoM, old machine gun builds, old nurse, old legion, vacuum pallets, and everything else. Nothing was ever too strong or broken guys, just leave it.
Stop putting words in peoples mouths and throwing around meaningless insults as that doesn't do anything as they will just do the same back. You're also throwing around a lot of double standards and showing a VERY strong survivor bias, not helping your case either. The issue at hand is DS be doin too much. Has nothing to do with mori's or 4k or gen rush, at least my post didn't so please don't reply to me with every issue you ever had with every killer ever.
I doubt any of this will get through as you clearly have your mind made up and are trying to keep survivor as the boring snoozefest it currently is with how easy it is to play because of the power disparity between the two roles.
Make a second perk category, like exhaustion, called "second chance" or something. Throw BT, DS, Adrenaline, ect. in it and have them disable every other second chance perk once they activate. Whoo, a lot of problems solved, my build wouldn't change, and maybe we'd see more perk diversity.
Give survivors a total of x hooks or hook time as a TEAM that way camping becomes really bad as a strategy and tunneling would be worse then finding someone else while someone is on the hook unless survivors rambo mission to the hook like they do now.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1168956#Comment_1168956
So you just proved my point that no killer perk gives them a benefit for just 5 seconds in a whole match. A totem being cleansed (which I actually thought was 15 or 16 seconds but even if we use your figure of 12), is still more than double the benefit a survivor gets from the DS stun and that is based on a survivor starting on that totem at the second the game begins. So again, there is no killer perk that gives them 5 seconds of benefit.
The reward for most hex totems outweighs DS too. If ruin stays up you get a lot more than 5 seconds worth of gen regression. If Devour hope stays up you get exposed status and eventually able to outright kill them. NOED gives all survivors the exposed status. Those are a bit stronger than a 5 second stun, wouldn't you agree? Also, the killer gets to choose whether the survivor can even use DS in the first place. If they don't tunnel, it doesn't get used.
DS effectively erases the chase you just had (easily can be 45+ seconds) and then allows another to take place that wouldn't have otherwise (again, easily another 45+ seconds). All that time is use of the perk, not "just 5 seconds".
This is not even counting the time gained by the killer playing differently just because DS exist in the match, so it has an effect the whole match even for survivors not running it, just because it exist on someone or everyone (the killer gets no information on who has it, meanwhile survivors get notified of every hex in the game among a lot of other perks).
"If they don't tunnel, it doesn't get used." This is just untrue. Survivors, myself included, will throw myself into the killers way sometimes or just do a gen/unhook/body block/anything else for free just because decisive is up. A lot of the time survivors get unhooked 3 seconds after a killer so much as looks away. Sometimes they have the stealth of an ice cream truck blasting its jingle down the street, maybe on purpose because they have DS up so who cares. Sometimes killers can finish a whole other chase or two, happen upon the survivor from before, finish that new chase, and still get hit with the DS.
Anyone with some game sense knows DS is much more than an anti-tunnel perk and covers way too many options for survivors.
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They might not want to risk the 4% and would rather just let you bleed out. That's their decision to make and completely valid as it does not hold the game hostage. If you're so bothered by it take unbreakable to try and help.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1127776#Comment_1127776
Then we might aswell only add clause that if you work on gen it turns the DS off so survivors dont abuse it but keep it at 60sec so killers dont abuse it.
That is a very common suggestion yes, it just has to be extended to include unhooking so you don't end up in a chase the hooked get DS chase the unhooker still get DS situation as by that point you clearly are not tunneling but they are throwing themselves in your way.
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@Haku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126368#Comment_1126368
OR they can make tunneling impossible, cam0ping impossible by punishing them all and all of a sudden you don't need a perk called DS and a perk called BT and they can be easly change them to do something entirely else. But ofc why would we change something that suits killers, instead we have to blame it all on the survivors who use perks that the devs gave us to deal with a problem that is just as old as the game is. Just finished a game where I got tunneled 3 times in a roll by a very nice freddy who perfectly saw the one who unhooked me every time. Deal with that first and then we can talk by changing any perks. I really don't give a damn about any so called second 3rd 4d chance perks as I long as killers dont get punished real hard when they tunnel
they tried making camping impossible and survivors abused it, so blame them for that one. We could try another way but it would have to hurt the survivors as well or else they'll abuse it. Maybe block all gens until the survivor is saved? Nope camping becomes a problem. The killer objective is to kill survivors, unless you make a faster way than tunneling to kill them you will be punishing the killer for doing what they are supposed to do. Alternatively you could reward the killer by not tunneling (no not BP, not a perk, something in every game). I'm not saying we can't do these things, but fundamental changes will be needed to balance it out.
If you want to punish the killer for doing what they are supposed to do, then lets do the same for survivors. They can no longer gen rush, once one gen starts getting worked on the rest are blocked. No thats ridiculous, as is this suggestion to make it literally impossible to do use effective tactics to do your objective because "But I don't like it".
@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126759#Comment_1126759
The issue is problems like DS is not as simple as if someone else gets hooked it turns off.
Because it doesnt solve reason DS is used, campers and tunnelers. If you made it into it turns off if someone is hooked. Killers will take advantage of it, by for example camping downing person who is unhooking downing the person who got unhooked. Then proceeded by both people being hooked.
EDIT(My reply to similar question):
Not really, even if I looked past the camping meaning even if you get unhook the person who unhooked you would be hooked and he could continue tunneling the person.
Then there is who just go for unsafe hooks which would yield same result.
EDIT: If you want to make it more fair you would have to check multiple things like for example:
1: Was someone hooked after I was unhooked
2: 10s timer that checks if you are in their TR
3: Check if you are in chase / get downed.
If 3rd one is true DS stays active for duration of the chase + process repeats if they come back in next 10 seconds.
Else it turns off.
And if they down you it stays active as long as you are in dying state. If you get picked up process restarts.
If DS is active and you start doing a gen DS deactivates.
Different rules after all gens are done.
Could also be a counter to mori as in if you have DS and you didnt use it in the match. When killer tries to mori you your DS gets deactivated for the rest of the match and you cant be worried for the rest of the match.
These are too many things for one perk to cover and a lot of those can still be worked around by survivors pretty easily. If you don't like this version people already suggested having it turn off when a survivor touches a gen among other things. Camping and tunneling are not a "problem" they are strategies used by killers that have counters. You're basically saying "but what if the killer is tunneling two people" then that's not tunneling. There's only 4 people in a game, that's half the team. If you want them to go and hook each person 1 by 1 then you'll have to make other changes to give them the time to do that.
The main problem is DS is too safe and easy to activate with how strong it is. Reduce the timer, rework the perk, change the conditions, do something, but I have not seen you suggest a way to change the perk so its not longer covering EVERYTHING and having survivors purposely put themselves in your way because they have DS up. I've done it, my friends have done it, the randoms have done it. DS needs a change.
Then you add other perks on to it and it becomes a little crazy "Its ok I have deliverance up, alright I'll jump off right now when he takes two steps away and DS him when he downs me and unbreakablill if he leaves me, ok pop the last gen so I can adrenaline out and get healed, bye have a wonderful time!" Theres not much most killers can really do about this situation besides watch the survivors cheeks clap out the exit gates.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126990#Comment_1126990
DCs already don’t count towards the stats. A mori makes no difference as far as kill stats go....however the killer gets that kill should count the same. I mean, if we are going this route then hatch escapes shouldn’t count towards escapes. That would also be silly. Hook suicides there’s no way they could do this. Not all hook suicides are people giving up early in the game. Some are when the game is clearly a lost cause and it’s a waste of time to keep going. There’s also people who suicide out to give the other remaining survivor the hatch opportunity, if the killer doesn’t slug them obviously. These are all legit kills.
I'm not saying they don't count but we shouldn't lump them all together. They should just be separated into different types of kills. Again the stats are not the end all be all but it would be a little better to infer something from. If anything we should be measuring how many hooks a killer got rather than kills as there is a large difference between a 4k 4 hook and a 4k 12 hook game.
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We need better stats that reflect how people "died" (DC, suicide, mori, ect.) and we need stats divided by ranks and/or the upcoming MMR as well. The stats as is are very misleading because they make no distinction whatsoever on many aspects in the game. Maybe then the stats will mean something, not everything, but something.
Stats on perk usage would only really be useful if we separated them out by ranks/MMR. High, mid, low ect.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126528#Comment_1126528
The problem is the X, in reality it will probably be deactivate if X, Y and Z doesnt/does happen.
I dont understand the issue. What is y and z? The problem is the perk is too easy to activate and last too long. It needs an condition to deactivate if you want it to stay anti-tunnel but not anti-everything.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126512#Comment_1126512
My problem is not being found first. My problem is killers tunneling me to death 10 times in row which was semi solved after I put DS on. It especially sucked since I had a challenge to escape one game.
DS will still stop tunneling if changed to deactivate after x. Might even be able to get rid of the once per game aspect of it to really say no tunneling.
If your concern is "well what if they hook someone else then come for me". they are by definition not tunneling and now you're the closest to getting killed, so you are the prime target.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126475#Comment_1126475
I didnt say that i didnt have fun but being found first and then tunneled 10 times in a row gets old pretty fast.
When killer camps or tunnels like that it you cant call it a game.
"So yeah whenever I see a killer camp or tunnel I honestly want to DC because at that point only I am playing and the killer might aswell be a crow."
That was my understanding of the situation. If you are getting found first 10 times in a row then it sounds like you need to work on not being seen so easily. maybe hide until someone else gets injured.
When survivors can finish all 3 gens in one chase time, you can't really call it a game.
It goes both ways. Tunneling and camping suck. Gens speeds and map design sucks. Second chance perks stacking sucks. The problem is some of these are balancing problems and others are "well, I just don't like how this feels." Not saying fun has no place in the game, that how we end up with Nurse being strong but extremely unfun to play.
But balance comes first, we need a balanced and fun game, not just one or the other.
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@InTheBushes321 said:
I don't even think it's that it's being ignored, it seems more that they devs aren't capable of recognizing the problems.
We've seen before, every time it's a dev streaming gameplay (most notably M Cote) ,that most ( I don't want to say all ) of the devs just don't play this game at a high level. I'm not saying everyone on the balance team needs to be a God at DbD, but at least a few people should be pretty good.
And so we get stuck with things like completely horrible map design, very few viable killers, one side having a clear advantage over the others, nerfs/buffs that make no sense at all or are band-aid fixes, etc
I'm not trying to be a butt, but I almost never see this get brought up. This game is balanced around the mentality of green and yellow rank survivors.
I agree, especially given the dev responses lately, meanwhile the killers are held to a massively higher standard for some reason.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126466#Comment_1126466
Again: Where are YOUR red rank killer games?
That's one game Mr.Whole-year. Anyone can do that every now and then sure,I do it too. I'm not the one claiming all my killer games are easy with Bubba and that I have a years worth of proof. I even stated a counter point even if that was the case. This conversation is derailing from the main point of the discussion and I'm not going to let it turn into a you vs me thread. You missed your opportunity to provide substantial evidence for your point, this conversation is over.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126423#Comment_1126423
You say that but I see plenty of people being tunneled/camped with 5 gens remaining even pre ruin nerf (ruin still active).
I dont mind giving a killer a "free" hit so he let's the person go but most dont.
I see the point in tunneling and camping after the gens are done or when you have 1 gen left and there are still 4 people left.
So yeah whenever I see a killer camp or tunnel I honestly want to DC because at that point only I am playing and the killer might aswell be a crow.
Few months back I made a post about how we could slow the game down towards the end of the game. The jist of it was survivors cant finish the last gen as long as nobody died. (Either die on hook or sacrifice yourself in an alter) But devs said that it would be too easy for killers so yeah.
If they got camped to death and all 5 gens were up then it sounds like the survivor team was 4 potatoes. You want to make the argument 'Oh but I didnt have fun" well the killers currently aren't having any fun in most of not every game because of the perk stacking, gen speeds/map design, and overall strength of non-potato survivors.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126406#Comment_1126406
Except I've been posting red rank Bubba games for about a year now so don't give me that kind of comment.
I just went through your profile and I can't find these supposed constant post of your red rank games, so don't give me this kind of comment. The closes I saw was a 2 minuet clip where the survivors DC'd. Maybe I missed it because you seem to be very active on the forums, in which case please give me a directory to all these post you supposedly made for a whole year.
You even asked for buffs to Bubba among other things, if killer is so easy then this wouldn't be necessary.
Lets take it a step further and say sure, maybe you're the 1% of people who have no problem because you live and breath this game, that doesn't mean we should shaft the other 99% of people especially when survivors definitely don't get that sort of treatment are seem to be balanced around potatoes. If killers are to be expected to play like the 1% so should survivors.
I rarely played survivor, but when I did I escaped most of the time with no sweat of my back unless it was a top tier killer who had a brain or unless my teammates were extremely bad.
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I think we can make all perks just have 1 level (maxed out obv.) and it would help a ton. The grind would still be there, it just would not be as gigantic as it is now.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1126368#Comment_1126368
Or you know we could simply make camping and tunneling illegal. Then there wouldnt be a need for those perks and no one could abuse it.
That's the killer doing their objective, you'd have to change the whole game to even make that a considerable option. That be like saying we should make focusing gens illegal.
Camping has its inherit downsides and gives the other 3 survivors an easy escape. Tunneling is sometimes the best way to get the main objective of killing the survivors done. As much as I love going around and hooking everyone equally, its not very viable in the current state of the game.
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A someone who played both sides, no I don't really care from either side. It's not going to change how I play. I'm still going to focus objectives and try to win the game. It's a nice bonus but I don't expect others to play differently based on what I decided to bring in just because.
By the same token, if a killer brings in a mori you should let him mori you because he brought it in and burnt the offering.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125673#Comment_1125673
Killers will not be happy until the 4k is guaranteed. With everything complained about on here, survivors should have no perks, no items, no terrain to hide behind, no hatch, and doing a gen should require five, uninterrupted minutes of repair or it resets to zero. Hell, why should survivors even be allowed to run? Just disable the function. No running. Just walk onto my hooks please.
@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125684#Comment_1125684
Pretty much this.
I've been a red rank killer for years now (as Bubba btw) and even I realize what I did was not supposed to be normal. I 4k'd pretty much all the time before the Ruin nerf. Even now I 4k more often than not. And other killers really want survivors to get further nerfed even though the devs have made it clear a 4k is NOT the expected result of an average game. If anything they need to adjust the pipping/ranking system to let certain people understand you're doing good when getting 2 kills with many chases/multiple hooks (spread across all survivors)/good gen defense etc.
Right now killers just want a 4k even if they 1-hook them one by one -which by the way- is the reason the devs CAN NOT TOUCH GEN TIMES.
I've been playing lots of (solo) survivor games lately (rank 1 as well) and what I have noticed so far is most killers are REALLY bad at the game. Like seriously bad... So bad I am surprised they made it to red ranks. Yet all of them think they're great enough to deserve a 4k judging by certain salty post game messages. I think I'll post a sample of a rank 1 Huntress later on who couldn't hit ANY of the survivors with a hatchet including me and rage quit after a few minutes/after a few gens got fixed. That's not survivors being op. That's the killer being bad.
Not to mention there's the other type of killer that straight up facecamps first hook considering it "fun" (there even is a thread named facecamping as Bubba is fun) expecting everyone else to stand around for two minutes doing nothing. Had one of those games yesterday. A noed-Bubba who facecamped right at the start of the game. Obviously I just fixed gens while he was facecamping allowing two of us to escape (2 minutes is not enough to fix 5 gens by the way. Only reason two of us escaped was the other solo Nea looped the facecamper successfully AND got downed by noed on the other side of the map otherwise it would have been a cheap 3k or 4k even though that Bubba couldn't use the chainsaw AT ALL)
If the devs "fixed the early game" or "increased the gen times" these killers would 4k EVERY GAME.
Long story short: People -especially killers- need to learn to play for fun and not sweat for the 4k and the ranking/pipping system needs to go along and reward killers for multi-hooking (different) survivors, defending generators, chasing a lot etc. even if the result is a 2k at the end.
A good 2k (with lots of chases and hooks) is better than a 4k with 1-hook-kills.
"Hey the gen times are a little ridiculous by the time I can get 1 hook because of poor map design 3 gens pop and this shouldn't be the norm, even getting the 2k is a little out of hand sometimes if I'm not playing top tiers or the survivors are not potatoes."
Survivor mains: "OMG killers just want easy 4K" " I'm actually a killer main I get 4k every game with Bubba no add-ons or perks"
On a side note, if they camp you just do gens for free and get an easy 3 escape, I have no idea how you're all going to get killed with all the time wasted by camping just 1 person. If this becomes a problem with longer gen times just increase the bleedout time on hook so camping still gets easy escapes.
Also I'm a survivor main I escape every game with no perks or items. /s
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@Mtom912 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125769#Comment_1125769
Some of your points work, but what if someone gets unhooked, while the killer hooks someone, has bbq (lets be honest it’s expected) and goes right for the survivor that just got unhooked, maybe even a killer with mobility, and the other survivor gets unhooked as the killer gets to them
or a survivor gets tunneled straight off hook, and there’s a bear trap set nearby before they got hooked so they didn’t know about it
Then time your unhooks better or that other person should loop better/longer or farther away. Make it so they have to be downed, not just hooked to deactivate DS. There are other solutions if this scenario becomes a problem. But we can't let these perks go unchanged because the survivors might mess up or might be potatoes. I don't agree with the bear trap one, you can be tunneled into a bear trap.
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@Haku said:
For me it is really strange how everyone is trying to explain possbile problems with stacking these perks but literally nobody mention why these perks are taken in first place. And that is the REAL problem. I just love running Hunch, Q&Q, Inner and one random perk for example Head on. And then I meet this guy next who tunnels me after my first game. Cool I move on. Well I meet the next guy who does that too, cool, I move on. Well what do you know I meet another guy who does the same. I suddenly I am out of time to play and I all I had was lets say half of the time being tunneled and I all I can do in this situation is equip DS BECAUSE the killers will just force me to. I hate this perk so much. I hate being forced using perks just because you have no choice. BT is exactly the same situation. I want to play what I want while I can enjoy the game. Until the game is not changed the way tunneling/camping is not needed and is punished extremely hard I don't see what we are talking about here. I can see the eventual problem with SFW I really do but majority of us are solos and we can't even see the other survivors perks in the loby after so many years of development. So the synergy is close to zero for solos
The synergy is still there for solos just equip multiple second chance perks. DS should still be anti-tunnel and BT should still be anti-camp, the problem is these second chance perks are getting abused by solos and swf alike because they extend outside of their intended purpose all the time with how non-restricted their activation requirements are on top of them being stacked.
You want DS to be anti-tunnel? Sure, just make it deactivate if the killer is not tunneling (such as hooking someone else or giving the survivor room to work on their objective).
You want BT to be anti-camp? Sure, but make it so it cant be abused by hook bombing or people looping you around the person on the hook. Something like "If the killer is within x meters for x seconds without entering a chase, BT activates" or something. People are going to say "oh but the randoms I get are bad and loop around me on hook! I can't control what they do!". Well as unfortunate as that is, a bad play is a bad play and until DBD becomes 1v1 your teammates are going to affect you.
Killers hated running slowdown but it was so detrimental not to run it because of the gen speeds/map design problems. Slowdown was nerfed because staking them was too strong, other perks should follow suit.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1122180#Comment_1122180
Why should survivors have no chance to recover from mistakes especially when it's 4 of them obviously resulting in more overall mistakes compared to killer gameplay?
Its not "no chance" its they have too much of a chance. Survivors have 16 perks total, killer has 4. Survivors, as a whole, can be in 4 places, killer can only be in one. The problem is you can have survivors that should not have any business doing half as well as they do getting carried by their 16 second chance perks per game.
4 of them or not, as a team if they make more mistakes overall they should be losing. The amount of mistakes killers get allowed compared to survivors is out of control. The power survivors have over the match is out of control.
The game should be 50/50 but its closer to 80/20 or worse in favor of the survivors.
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@Peanits said:
I don't know if we just watched the same match, but I just saw Otz 4k (and double pip) with speed limiter bubba and no meta perks.
I don't know if we watched the same match, but I just saw 4 potato survivors making mistakes left and right still finish all the gens and getting saved from a smashing defeat because of overlapping second chance perks and nothing to do with their skill at the game. I saw a killer make a mistake and it costing them greatly while the survivors make mistakes the whole match and barely get punished by comparison.
Any killer with any build can win against potatoes, the point is being entirely missed because people are getting so focused on the end result.
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The devs have expressed that they're more than fine with Legions current state. Im going to paraphrase a little here and there but the most recent one I personally been in was a recent thread. In a recent thread, the conversation came up of why can he not see scratches or blood and, quote "So that if you use it for traversal you're not accidentally coming across trails and finding Survivors when you're in travel mode. When you trigger FF, you have to be sure you have your quarry at least in sight. "
When pushed for further details about why this is the case compared to other traversals quote "Hillbilly can't turn while dashing. Oni can't turn well."
This is only one aspect of there power. If you're interested read more here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/132095/why-does-legion-lose-the-ability-to-see-generator-auras/p1
In regard to another post I've seen is "I'm happy with how the power/charge is working at the moment."
As seen here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1111733
This is all I've seen personally, but it seems like our words are falling on deaf ears. Maybe other devs feel differently, but if they do they're not speaking up from what I've seen.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114854#Comment_1114854
Oh I didn't say that Legion wasn't weak, or even that this limitation is justified.
My claim is only that those Killers have a justification for NOT having that specific limitation that doesn't apply to the Legion.
Legion can see Survivors in his power, doesn't need it for general movement and has easy access to it.
So you can't use Nurse, Spirit and Oni not having the scratchmark limitation as a counterargument to Legion having it.
The limitation is designed to limit the Legion's power. Not the Oni's power. If you want to argue if it should, then you need to do so on it's own merits. Not exactly a high bar to clear.
I'm doing both, by his own merit he shouldn't have this drawback. Compared to other killers, its even more apparent. We should be comparing killers relative strength to one another when the situation presents itself.
We shouldn't go "this power does not have a reason NOT to have this limitation, so throw it on". It should be "this power does x really strong, so lets limit it in some way." He has arguably the weakest of the powers that "can be used for traversal" because of a mountain of reasons. We shouldn't say "well this killer can see the survivors they should have a weaker power" that's every killer but Spirit. I don't want spirit to be the only viable killer. I'm not saying that you want that either.
I can, will, and should, be using other killers to justify and bolster these points when applicable. I'm not comparing trapper traps and frenzy, I'm comparing other traversal/chase powers.
These powers all fit the given criteria of "can be used to traverse" then it got changed to "well, traverse and turn" which changed not much and just disregarded all the other drawbacks of the power. Their power is one of the weakest in the game, we should be trimming off weaknesses or making it stronger. Starting with something as nonsensical at this should be an easy start.
Legion should be able to use their power for traversal without incurring the wrath of Mt. drawback before even being in a chase. It should be a decision you can make just like all the other traversal powers that also get to be much stronger outside of traversal.
Right now its "well, I could use my 15% boost to get there slightly faster, but scratch marks get deleted so I wont know if anyone's there, blood gets deleted, and even if someone is there and didn't take 2 steps to go behind a wall/barrel/pallet, I'll most likely just get stunned for 4 seconds, go legally blind, and have a harder time finding them. Even if after all that I do find them, my power is on CD for 20 seconds. Lets say I did get them anyway because potato survivor or committed, ok, no one else is nearby because they scattered because I'm legion (duh) and I have no stealth mechanic at all and a large TR, and my power is actually detrimental in a 1v1 against an injured survivor. Oh I also gave them a speed boost and a stronger pallet stun since I have to cancel my power even though I hit them."
Its just too much drawback upon backup drawback upon backup drawback for a power this weak, slow, non-lethal, and having almost no way to make it any better because all the perks have been taken away from it, and half the add-ons should be thrown in the campfire.
Just because these were "designed for their power" does not mean it SHOULD be.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114215#Comment_1114215
I don't speak for hillbilly. But Spirit has different limitations to the same effect due to making the Survivors themselves invisible, and Oni's power is harder to gain access to making the benefits earned.
I understand every killer has a limitation here and there but I feel Legion has too many in comparison to other powers. Its just every aspect of the power has more drawbacks then normal from basic function to add-ons and perks. Frenzy only boost you to 130% and has no add-ons to make it any faster. Spirit, since this is the example, moves at 176% at base (if sources are to be trusted) and has add-ons to go faster in addition to the post phase boost whereas Legion gets stunned instead. There's other factors of course, but no one in their right mind is going to say Legion is anywhere near spirit level of power. it seems like they took a ton of negatives and just threw it on legion because of the initial problems or something. Just a quick list of fundamental drawbacks
Legion:
1) Non-lethal
2) slow moving
3) long CD
4) getting stunned takes you out and drains the gauge
5) getting out otherwise stuns you anyway for longer
6) waste of time on injured survivors
7) not using the power and swinging normally drains the gauge, despite point #6
8) can't read auras
9) can't see blood
10) can't see scratch marks
11) can't use unless gauge is full
12) Getting blinded cancels the power
Spirit:
1) is 110% killer
2) can't see survivors
3) can't see auras
4)can't see blood
5) can't use unless gauge is full
Oni-chan:
1) is M1 killer until power is charged (gauge is full)
2) Global que on power use
3) can't turn well
4) Mini-stuns everywhere
This is off the top of my head so I probably missed a few here and there (not to mention I'm no Spirit or Oni expert), but there's just SO many drawbacks for such an underwhelming power and there's no real way to make it much better since no perk works with the power and half the add-ons are just a waste of BP I'd rather not even pick them up. I should be a least a little excited for a purple rarity add-on, instead its "Oh great, stab wounds study, oh and a mixtape. Greeeat. Oh look dirt! oh riiiight they nerfed it. Nevermind. Oh look a knife, oh, they nerfed that too." I get other killers have some high end add-ons that are kinda meh, but this seems like overkill.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1114088#Comment_1114088
Hillbilly can't turn while dashing. Oni can't turn well. Blinking is a different animal entirely.
You're not wrong, but nothing stops most from just canceling their power if they aren't heading in that direction already (especially since they dont have a 4 second stun) and just activating it again. My understanding was "we'll you can be using it for travel so we don't want you accidentally finding survivors". Billy for example, has arguably one of, if not the best, travel powers in the game at a minimal cooldown while also being lethal. So it just seemed strange.
So just to clarify. Despite frenzy being a non-lethal, 10 second long, 20-second CD that gets partially consumed on a normal hit, and decently slower than other speed boost with a 4 second stun, its just the fact that they can turn if they want without cancelling that leads to this difference in the case of tracking survivors? This is also assuming in theory that they started frenzy to travel, found scratch marks along the way, and still had enough of their power left to find the survivor, chase them, and hit them before running out of time and getting stunned in addition to windows and pallets that could be around.
Just trying to understand and help others understand what is considered powerful enough to warrant these limitations. I understand there are other factors at play and I'm not saying turning is not a valid balancing point, but they already have so many other limits on their power while it seems like other killers barely have half while also still having a stronger power and add-ons that help much more, especially purple add-ons.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113679#Comment_1113679
So that if you use it for traversal you're not accidentally coming across trails and finding Survivors when you're in travel mode. When you trigger FF, you have to be sure you have your quarry at least in sight. Then you use Killer Instinct after the first hit to find more targets.
So is this going to be applied to Hilbilly's chainsaw, Oni dash, Nurse blinks ect. or is this a Legion exclusive punishment for one of the weaker travel options in the game. Frenzy was changed to not work with on hit perks for "consistency", so why is this one different?
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867010#Comment_867010
Sorry but the same can be said about survivor. Just replace "Nurse" with "survivor "and "kill" with "escape."
Sorry but no you can't say the same. Survivor is not as hard to play as Nurse is. A red rank Nurse can be new to her or bad at her. A red rank survivor cannot because All survivors play the same. If we could isolate good Nurse players then her stats might be more reliable.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867010#Comment_867010
Sorry but the same can be said about survivor. Just replace "Nurse" with "survivor "and "kill" with "escape."
Survivor isn't hard to play like Nurse is though. So sorry but no you can't say the same. A red rank Nurse can be new to her or bad at her. A red rank survivor cannot since all survivors are the same.
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Oh no, the perk that exist for the sole reason of giving you a warning works against Myers. Please make it so he shuts down a whole perk just by existing. No. If someone takes Spine Chill over the meta (adrenaline, dead hard/SB/BL, Decisive, and borrowed) then the least it can do is, you know, work.
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She has many issues, collision was just one of them.
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Nurse's kill rate was low before her changes, its dragged down by people new to her and just bad at her because she is the hardest killer to play. She was still considered the strongest killer before and she is still strong now. Kill rate =/= how strong Nurse is. All the baby nurses getting 0k are bringing her stats down.
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Nurse's kill rate was low before her changes, its dragged down by people new to her and just bad at her because she is the hardest killer to play. She was still considered the strongest killer before and she is still strong now. Kill rate =/= how strong Nurse is. All the baby nurses getting 0k are bringing her stats down.
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Nurse's winrate is dragged down by people learning to play her or just bad at her since she takes the most skill to play. Her kill rate was low before and she was definitely still the strongest killer in the game. She is still strong now, stats aren't everything for her.