MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617575#Comment_1617575
1) .03333.....*8 = .2666666... I think the reason they're doing this is that that's exactly 1/30. So, .033s is 2 frames. .267s is 16 frames. I already told you I was making assumptions that made sense given the numbers and wording. Your assumption also makes sense given the wording on the wiki, now that I noticed these random looking times are just tied to frames. I'm not sure why you're being so confrontational.
2) They do not say how many "attack trail elements" there are, or how the hit box relates to the visual on the screen. You could see 500 spikes in his trail, and there could still be 8 big hitboxes. Or there could be one perfect hitbox for each little spike. Who knows. You can't tell from the wiki.
3) "Applies damage during .6 seconds" does not necessarily mean that it takes .6 seconds for the aforementioned attack trail elements to propagate. That could mean that the damage persists for .6 seconds. As in, if I were to start off the POTD stripe and run onto the POTD stripe, I could take damage if I got onto the stripe within .6 seconds. This is ambiguous. I just looked up int3r4ct's guide and it claims the damage persists for .18 seconds, so maybe it propagates in .42 seconds and persists for .18 seconds to get to the .6 seconds of damage? Or maybe it means .6 seconds just to propagate and you can actually take damage for up to .78 seconds?
4) At what point in the "delay of .267s" is the glowing stripe on the ground clearly visible? Right from the start? Sometime in the middle? At the end? Does this change on low vs ultra settings? It seems to fade in gradually while playing. This is relevant for how much reaction time you'll have.
5) How wide is the hitbox? That's also relevant for how much reaction time you have.
I can kinda see how you got what you got, just for me it looked very straightforward, I just don't see how you got the whole attack only being .3 seconds long at all, which is what you kept pushing at. Combining that with both mine and others experience, the majority saying how easy it is to dodge the attack, and the times given, which no matter how you slice it, its more that the value you game me for reaction time as far as I can tell. So the main point of it being reactable or not is a: yes its reactable imo. Given all the evidence and personal experiences of myself and other.
As for the confrontational aspect, you kinda came off that way saying things like "that is indeed the case" so I just responded in kind. Furthermore you kept pushing that the attack was impossible to dodge and lasted .3 seconds long for the whole wave, which is just clearly not true no matter how you slice the numbers. That or I have superhuman reaction time, which is definitely not true.
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@unluckycombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617489#Comment_1617489
I mean, I play both sides, but I gotta agree- recently I've been seeing a lot more complaints on Killer's side then survivor's side here on the forums. It seems like there are quite a lot of threads about Hatch and Keys needing a nerf, or how nasty DS+Unbreakable is. I've also seen the normal back and forth as to whether or not Blight needs a buff or not- but that's normal with new killer releases. And a lot of the things you listed survivors complaining about are the same things that Killers complain about on the other side... DS is OP. Sprint Burst is too strong. Iron Will is too powerful. Locker blinds shouldn't exist. BNP are toxic. Keys are OP, Prove Thyself should get nerfed, Stealth is boring to play against, I deserve a 4k every game so Hatch without key at endgame is OP. SWF ruins the game- the list goes on.
Instead of making the argument an Us versus them, Killer versus Survivor demonizing each other, how about we all just agree that there's crappy things to play against on both sides, and both do require skill, they just require skill in different areas. Yes, some killers are more difficult to play mechanically, but they also have the higher pay-off to reward it. Just like how survivors have high risk, high reward perks like Ace in The Hole.
The game has crappy things on both sides, and this Killer vs Survivor argument is dumb. There's entitled, crappy people on both sides of the argument, and splitting the community with dumb labels like that just makes the community more toxic.
I haven't really seen that, like I said, earlier today it was 6 to 2 survivor to killer complaints. I still see survivors complaining much more. But as for the other points I agree on a lot of them (although I have never seen anyone say nerf WGLF). Both sides have problems and people really need to realize that. It just was the point being made was "who complains more" and I'll tell you the same thing I told them since I see you only have 10 post so I'm assuming you're rather new, survivors all in all complain much more. Its not that killers don't complain at all, because they do, and some of it is real dumb or ignorant (like 4k every game, thats dumb, same with I should escape every game), but its nothing compared to the survivor main playerbase. Again, the survivor handbook is a meme for a reason.
I wouldn't call ace in the hole high risk, its just rng. You always get something so theres not really any risk at all actually. A big problem I see with the design of the game, is that the survivor side has many low-risk/high-reward perks and such while the killer side has a lot of high-risk/low-medium reward things. Considering the killer has to face 16 perks, that really shouldn't be the case at all. I also play both sides, I know the frustration on both ends. But if I want to relax? Survivor hands down.
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@ChickenMcthicken_5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617332#Comment_1617332
Oh whoops than my bad there.
The thing is it PH torment just makes the killer also play in a degenerate kind of way. It's not particularly difficult to make someone touch the torment trial, (lasagna trial as I like to call it) cause at the moment it's a bit buggy. The trial can literally turn invisible at times and you can accidentally touch it. Last game I had against PH happened, It was Barham and I was walking in the hallway with nothing on it but suddenly Steve just screams and I was tormented . After I got unhooked , not even 60 seconds in and killer straight up ignore a Nancy working on a can cause he saw me tormented and tunnels for virtually no reason. It can be annoying so I really think survivors should have at least a way to take the torment off without having to get send the cage in the first place. I know DS is super hated and understandably so but getting tunneled off hook just cause your tormented is not exactly to fun either. And and Nancy saved after PH started a chase. He simply had bbq but even though saw the Nancy first working on a gen he saw a glimpse of Steve beaitiful hair and I got essentially tunneled cause, ######### me I guess and No I didn't even had DS.
I got tunneled off the hook cause I touch an invisible lasagna trail, super cool.
You also have to understand tunneling is just an evil spawned from the way the game was designed. You cannot go around playing musical hooks if you want any consistency winning your matches. Your goal as killer is to get someone out the game ASAP. I understand its not fun, and I would like the game design to change so that's not the case so you can punish tunneling without punishing the killer for doing their job. I mean you could kinda do that now if you just rework DS so its only hits the hard tunnelers. I wouldn't say it lets the killer do anything they're not supposed to do. Survivors do gens, killers get people out the game, its how it works. It doesn't reward plays you shouldn't make otherwise. My main 2 problems with DS is that it hits people who were not tunneling at all, and that it just lest survivors do as they please without a care or repercussions.
I wouldn't say "for virtually no reason" or 'because i was tormented", it might have been because you were closer to getting out then the Nancy.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617503#Comment_1617503
I didn't misread anything. The wiki is extremely ambiguous on this, and I'm making the only assumptions that make sense given the language.
It would make sense for the attack to be 8m long, for each segment to take .033s to spawn, and the entire attack duration to be exactly .267 seconds. 8*.0333333=.267. It would also make sense for the attack to take .267 to spawn and then to take .033s for the damage to propagate, because .267 + .033 = .300. Either of these could be possible without the text of the wiki being incorrect.
Please provide evidence to back up your interpretation instead of gratuitous insults.
bruh, the attack doesn't last for .3 seconds, its longer. That would be 1 instance of the .03 propagation, and 1 instance does not "simulate a propagating attack wave" or have "individual Attack Trail Elements". No, its really not that ambiguous
"The Punishment of the Damned Attack Trail will spawn with a delay of 0.267 seconds" The delay before the attack, don't know how else you can read that.
"The individual Attack Trail Elements will spawn with a time offset of 0.033 seconds between each element to simulate a propagating attack wave." The individual particles that can hit you spawn with a delay of 0.33 seconds between each particle to look and act like a wave. Again, don't know how you're getting what you're getting from that. Also 0.33*8 is .264 not .267. You're also assuming each propagation is 1 meter long.
"Punishment of the Damned applies damage during 0.6 seconds" The time frame where you can be damaged at base. So we add that to the delay, the entire attack would take 0.6 + 0.267. So at base the attack takes 0.867 seconds, not counting the cooldown at the end and the startup time before you can even use the attack or any additional range. Well beyond the reaction time you gave earlier. Almost a full second is enough time to react with the size of the attack.
Its really not that hard to understand.
Edit: .6/0.3 = 20, so each particle would be around 1/20 of 8 meters, or 0.4 meters, NOT 1 meter. Basic math if I did that right.
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@basszombie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617520#Comment_1617520
look. playing killer is the equivalent of being 'monkey in the middle' so there has to be insentive to play killer right? cause no wants to be monkey in the middle. i get it. so buff the killers up a little. but right now its too easy for the killers... you're either a pro at looping, or you go down. there is no in between. thats the point im trying to make. can we agree on that at least?
No not really? Looping is pretty easy given the current map design for most maps. Unless you're Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, huntress or maybe hag, survivors holding w and occasionally having to play the pallet/window is all it takes. Add into that the gen times, you don't have to loop as long. Add in the exhaustion perks, here's free time and distance. Add in all the second chance perks, here's some get out of jail free cards.
Most killers don't have it east that's the whole point of contention. If you mean "you're either a pro at looping, or you go down" yeah thats the game and what survivors apparently find fun. But "pro" is too far. If you're just, not bad at looping, you're fine.
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@basszombie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617512#Comment_1617512
yeah. because the game is easier as killer. survivors wouldnt be here if it werent. wake up...
No the game is easier as survivor, wake up...
They just want their easy mode made easier. There is a reason why people play survivor when they just want to relax, its easy compared to the other side.
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@basszombie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617489#Comment_1617489
yeah. survivors complain more because the game is easier as killer. simple as that.
Survivors complain more because they're entitled and are used to playing baby mode so as soon as anything they don't like happens they explode. Killer I don't like? DC. I got downed? DC, ect. ect. get on the forums, cry.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617065#Comment_1617065
Yep, I misread the wiki; it's actually even more impossible to dodge than I thought. Looks like .267 seconds is the total length of the attack, not the time before it starts to appear. .033333 per segment * 8 segments = .267 seconds. Each hitbox must just be 1m long. My experience says it's impossible to dodge reactively, and that is indeed the case.
You misread it again. You have the startup delay of .267 seconds, after that you spawn the first tiny part of the attack, then every .03 seconds after that the attack continues to spawn a little further until it has traveled the whole 8 meters. Maybe not 100% reactionary dodging for you, but if you know its coming (which you should unless your a potato), you can predict and react. Those two things combined with all the other flaws (again it adds up) make it fairly easy to dodge or juke, that's why you don't shoot a shot unless they're locked into an animation or you're really confident you can land the shot.The only time you might not be able to is if the killer gets you dead center and you don't have DH, everyone can DH the attack of reaction (again, except potatoes). But if the killer got you dead center you should get hit (and you're probably an easy target). From my experience, and plenty others (seeing as one of the biggest complaints is how easy to dodge it is), it is 100% able to be dodged reactively if you're not a potato, so maybe you're just a potato, which is fine, there's players of all skill levels (and judging by the reading comprehension shown, more than likely).
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617308#Comment_1617308
And you know. Even if you are correct, Lord Penguin. Survivors mainly only complain about 2 things. Tunneling and camping. They mention glitches and ask devs to correct them, but killers complain about everything. There is literally a post where the killer is complaining ABOUT THE STRUGGLE!!! That's another entitled killer wanting a win handed to them. Killers complain about the hatch, looping, DS, BT, Adrenaline, SG, Unbreakable, etc. The list goes on. So tell me. Who really complains more?
They only complain about tunneling and camping? I don't have the words for the amount your vision is clouded by survivor colored glasses. There were multiple survivor threads asking for the following:
To get rid of DC penalties so they could DC whenever they want like before because "they dont want to wast their time in a match they don't want to play" I saw a poll a day or 2 ago asking for the penalty to stay off I could probably find it again in the first few pages, they complain about how close exit gates can be (valid, but its there), they complain about killers complaining, they complain about hit boxes, they complain killers can close the hatch, they complain that killers are slightly faster than them, they complain they get less BP, they complain they can't win a 1v1 against every single killer in a 4v1 game, they complain that totems are too much to do and they're too hard to find, they complain about NoED (which feels bad, but its really not that strong), they complain about WGLF not being BBQ levels, they complain about getting hit through pallet drops, they complain about Ruin, Enduring, Pop, BBQ (which has so many counters), Add-ons (lots of them), Their own teammates using self-care (which is not a bad perk, people just you is when they shouldn't and its not that hard to understand the math why), teammates in general, why does distortion only have 3 stacks and why cant I get more in the match, Thana (which has a abysmally low effect for its requirements), Mori's, whats the point of wiggling, struggle not being automatic, Blood Warden, Corrupt, Franklins, Losing item add-ons after a match (like killers do, at least they can keep the item), Devour hope, Undying (the perk just came out and its a 50/50 gamble perk), Infectious Fright, M&A, Spirit Fury, unsafe pallets, every killer that is not clown, to equip a perk if they have a specific weakness (like totems and small game), dead zones, getting hit through windows, about how many nerfs they've gotten, slugging (jeez the slugging complaints), indoor maps and gens being hard to find, how much they have to hold M1 (oh so hard) having to adjust their play style for certain killers and builds, why is DS one time use only, why do you want to change the second chance perks, and the list goes on and on, that's just off the top of my head.
Some of these are valid complaints but jeez do they complain. These are all complaints I've seen multiple times over my time in the forums. You want me to tell you who complains more? The answer is a big fat "SURVIVORS" on the side of a 100 page book called the survivor handbook. Its insane.
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@ChickenMcthicken_5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616713#Comment_1616713
Actually, if you are tormented and he puts you in a cage it essentially makes a lot of perks useless. Examples are Kindred, DS, Second Wind, Borrowed Time, Camaraderie, Deliverance if he for some reason decides to cage you on first time), Babysitter, We'll Make It and virtually every other perk that activates from being unhooked or being hooked, from both the guy who is stuck in the cage and the one who uncages you. And a lot red ranks recently are putting you or try to put you in the torment status before first hook, they hook normally but the moment you get off the hook they come right back or just camp to put in the cage virtually cancelling DS or any other hook based perk for virtually no real skill whatsoever. I think his cage needs a bit of a rework OR give the survivors a way to take the torment status off. Maybe something similar like Freddy's dreamworld mechanic.
I appreciate the effort and the long post, but I was replying to that person because they implied the same thing about Legion and I was very confused.
As to your original point, I disagree. The cages have their own downsides and the survivors have to put the torment on themselves by running over the trail, its more than fair. I believe its fine for 1 killer to not be susceptible to the absolute degeneracy DS allows, which is itself, a no skill perk. If anything its a negative skill perk that rewards bad play in its current state. Especially because the cages themselves work in a way that really hurts anyone trying to tunnel compared to just hooking them. BT is also in the same boat but to a lower degree.
The survivors do have a way to take it off, save someone from the cage. Don't unhook close to the killer and they can't come right back, if they're camping do gens. PH doesn't do anything that changes that dynamic, its survivor bad habits that cause those problems.
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617290#Comment_1617290
Wait wait wait. So the first page (which literally updates every second due to somebody posting and is never an accurate account of what is truly what you and I are discussing) is proof you are right? I'm talking over a period of time. You are talking about what it was at that second. You do know it changes, right?
It says right there what is said it was, an example, c'mon you can at least try to read. If we're talking about time I'v been here over twice as long as you have, so I also have you beat in that category so idk why you're even bringing it up.
Oh right you want to use made up numbers. Well there have been 300 survivor complaints compared to the 100 killer complaints in the last year. Is that better?
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617247#Comment_1617247
Lol you know how people can tell I'm right? Cause now your playing the, "you have no proof, bruh. Sorry. You're wrong." So go ahead and play the card. Cause only people who have lost use that card.
Are you trying to say you're right without even a shred of proof or examples when I've already provided examples? Wow you really can't stand being wrong can you. What's going to prove the argument, feelings?
You literally pulled the "whatever" card and the "you know I'm right" card, only people who know they have nothing to show pull those insubstantial, grasping at straws, I wanna have the last word and not admit I'm wrong, statements. Just get over it, you lost.
Still not addressing anything I brought up btw :)
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617236#Comment_1617236
Whatever, bruh. You were in almost every single one I'm talking about so you know I'm right.
Mhmm suuuure. Even if I was in these supposed threads, that literally proves nothing, much less that you're right about anything thats been brought up. Someones getting desperate "bruh", and its not me. So yeah go run along, the adults need to talk.
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616315#Comment_1616315
God you arent very bright. That's how many different posts there were. They each had many comments and were the talk till either they were closed, forgotten, or came to a stalemate. But even in the survivor complaints, it was filled to the brim with entitled killers complaining about survivors and in the killers complaints the survivor are drowned, scoffed at, argued against, and just downright hated on. I spent many days on each of them countering both sides. So no. Those numbers are perfect in a rounded number for the last few months
Calm down there butthole, I know that's what you were trying to say but as far as I'm concerned you pulled those numbers out your butt crack. I'm still not seeing anything I can go and check right now, which is what I told you to do if you can. Guess comprehending something so simple is beyond you and you don't have anything substantial. Just stories anyone can make up and a lot of bias. God your not very bright :)
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Anything to reduce the grind is fine by me.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616517#Comment_1616517
The travel time, from the same Wiki page, is a whopping .033 seconds. That means the entire attack takes 300ms.
Let's assume ping of 55ms for both the killer and survivor, which is quite a bit better than I ever get. Now per Wikipedia (link) the average reaction time for a college-age individual to a simple visual stimulus is 190ms. That's not very representative of DBD since there are a lot of things fighting for your attention in addition to the POTD trail, but let's assume we're a god and 190ms is our in-game reaction time. Just from ping and reaction time, we're already at 300ms. That means that by the time you can even start to move out of the way you're already taking a hit, even with decent ping and good reaction time.
You should read the whole thing, its that long per piece of the attack, it adds up. You really don't know about the power lol. Just playing as or against him you can see the attack moving along and its definitely not done in .3 seconds.
Your inexperience is showing.
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The legion change won't do much since they get a speed boost if you hit them in frenzy, I would make it so the stun is either shorter at base, or goes down for each survivor you hit in the frenzy if we want to focus on the stun.
Legion has so many limitations, lifting some of them would be nice, like the gauge depletion on a normal hit or losing your whole bar if you miss. I would say you could even increase his speed in frenzy, right now if you run in a straight line away from him, you're most likely getting away unless he snuck up on you while you were really grouped.
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Yes absolutely.
On both sides, the frame issues cause a lot of problems imo. Survivors vanish in the frames sometimes, and killers can jerk around as survivor.
As a killer though? Oof. Landing a normal hit is harder because joystick limitations, not to mention any killer that has to aim. Something overlooked a lot is its a lot harder to mind game with controller because you cannot flick/turn your camera anywhere near as fast as pc. Your red stain will most likely give you away because of the turning speed that comes with controller. Its not impossible, just harder and less effective.
Can'd do much about the controller issues, but the frames should not be this bad and it should not have taken cross-play coming out just to get it acknowledged. I'm most likely keeping cross-play off, but fixing the frames would help a lot of people and maybe make me reconsider.
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I would add giving BT a timer of like 20-30 seconds of the killer being near the hook before it can activate, and changing DS. A lot of survivors just pull you off because "oh I have BT whatever" or "oh you might have DS whatever". Safe unhooks are very much a symptom of second chance shenanigans as well as general potatoism.
All for changing the system to discourage unsafe unhooks, very frustrating as survivor.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
All I want is to make canceling the ability take slightly longer, I don't want anything else to be touched. Imma be pretty upset if they change anything else (Though some of his later addons could use a second look).
This would be fine if they buff the actual power to compensate, not using the power should not be stronger than using it, but thats what happens when you add a slow, delay, charge time, travel time, stun, and warning sign to a power.
I hope they buff the power and add a delay to canceling it.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616418#Comment_1616418
I would never expect anything less from a Legion avatar. :)
Wym, he doesn't cancel any perks and the counter play is literally run in a straight line, juke, or stun him. I am confusion.
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I would feel horrible to use a whole perk slot just because of how utterly outrageous the grind is and nothing else, but probably, the grind is just that bad.
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@Clockso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616496#Comment_1616496
The Punishment of the Damned Attack Trail will spawn with a delay of 0.267 seconds.
Source: https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Pyramid_Head
Unless you are a robot and can react in 0.267 seconds, the delay is just for the sake of animation and not rly for balance. but i wouldn't mind your suggestions at all in buffing the punishment of the damned attack, (like long range or sliiightly wider) and in exchange extend his cancel cooldown
it also has travel time, VERY important, and a looooong stun.
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@Clockso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616431#Comment_1616431
You can't be careless with your power, huntress has a loud HARGH sound when getting a hatchet out, and a loud SHING sound when she's fully charged the shot, so you get 2 sound cues that she is about to throw a hatchet, does that make her hatchet too easy to dodge? Yes and no, Yes if you throw your hatchet instantly without being patient, and no if you read the survivor's pattern of juking and land your shot. same thing with ph, you can't just blindly use your attack expecting it to land, you have to zone them, force them to be in a tight spot, or even bait your power.
Huntress doesn't have a big red line showing where the hatchet is going and a delay before it even starts on top of all that. You also have to remember any 1v1 encounter needs to be weighed on the killers side since there's 4 survivors. Just things like Spirit go too far. He's pretty fair with his power. If anything I hope they buff the actual power and add a slightly higher delay after canceling it.
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@Clockso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616360#Comment_1616360
if punishment of the damned is too easy to dodge then the killer is doing something wrong
Not really, coming from the survivor side the big red warning sign on the floor as well as the loud SHINK as he gets it ready is more than enough to waste his time dodging, especially with the long stun and the fact he can't move freely.
Not much a killer can do about the built in limitations to the power.
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I've been posting this a lot recently but the community seems fine with PH overall, it really seems to be a vocal minority. To be fair however, they just said he's under "review". However knowing these devs, I'd be surprised if they didn't nerf him even though he's fine.
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@Sluzzy said:
Because cancelling his M2 has no counterplay. That should be a long cooldown. He also shouldn't cancel out survivor perks.
PFP checks out, Laurie, DS, PH. Oh yeah its all coming together.
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616221#Comment_1616221
Lol how about look at more then the first page. Most of those are just ones salty killers are telling them to screw off on. Over the few months I've been on the forums I've seen 30 different posts of DS complaints from killers with over 100 comments, 20 different complaints about the hatch with 100 comments each, 10 different posts about keys, 5 different posts about Morris, 20 posts about camping/tunneling (each), 15 different posts about 99'ing, 20 posts about DCing from both sides. And these are just the ones I remember the most. PH is op, as is and that's why they are changing him up. He is still new. The rest? They need to be worked on but BHVR refuses to except with minor tweaks here and there. So again. Both sides are salty but killers are bitchy more outwardly
Well take it from someone who has been on the forum for over a year, not just a few months, you are incorrect and those numbers are really low for the survivors side so I think your confirmation bias is kicking in lol. PH is not op, most of the community agrees as indicated here
He might be strong but thats it, and strong is good. Whats next, DS is fine and doesn't need to be changed? or gen times are ok with the map design we have? Honestly.
If all you have are anecdotes, made up numbers, and nothing to show for it please stop. I've given you 2 measurements that you can view yourself, which considering the topic is more than enough when you've given me none.
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616159#Comment_1616159
I'm delusional? Wow. While yes I agree that survivors quit more and are salty, the amount of killers complaining about EVERY SINGLE SURVIVOR PERK literally outweighs the amount that survivors complain about. There is salt on both sides but I guarantee that killers complain so much more on the forum. I complain to my wife after being camped, but not often in here
At the time of writing this there are 2 killer sided complaints and 6 survivor ones one the first page of general discussions alone. These are just complaints not the ones asking questions or trying to have a discussion or bugs or anything. Yeah I'd say survivors complain more, about 3 times as much right now lol.
Mind you PH just got announced that he's getting looked at for "balance" if there was a time for killers to be complaining it would be now, yet there's more survivor threads.
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@Kisagi1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616017#Comment_1616017
My actual post is going to need approval but I realized I missed something..... SURVIVORS COMPLAIN MORE THEN KILLERS?!?!?! DID YOU REALLY SAY THAT?!?!?! I think somebody needs to go sit down and actually count how many posts on this forum are killers complaining and survivors complaining. Every time I came on here it's a killer complaining about the hatch, DS, Sprint burst, gen rushing, yada yada. I see maybe 2 or 3 out of the list as survivors complaining about lack of cosmetics or campers or tunneling. Not perks....
There's a survivor handbook, there's not a killer handbook, theres a reason why that is thrown around so much, you cant win with survivors. You need to sit down. the amount of matches I play with survivor salt is to the point its expected after every match, killers not so much. You're delusional. But to each their own.There are daily multiple threads complaining about boo hoo tunneling and camping, survivors are now asking for DC penalties to stay gone, I can't. On that note survivors DC much more often than killers do.
So yeah survivors complain much more than killers do, and you cant convince me otherwise because I'm right :)
Well thats a little arrogant and hostile, but you'll have a hard time convincing me.
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Gens just go way too fast. I can understand why its hard to tell the difference when its like "ok, gens took 20 more seconds they weren't rushing" lol.
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@Kisagi1990 said:
As a killer, I actually find this this completely accurate. Yea swf can be easy but not always. Killer on the other hand. Killers have the upper hand in every match. Mainly because anytime survivors get ANYTHING good, they ######### about it and it gets nerfed while killers keep their BS skills.
-looks at DS, BT, Adrenaline, DH, Soul Guard, Unbreakable, Sprint Burst- yeah totally.
Even if you were right, things getting nerfed because they're strong doesnt mean much, killer perks get nerfed even when they're not good to begin with (Gear head), I also don't know what these "BS" skills you're talking about are, killer perk are weaker then survivor perks in most cases, but that might just be because of the above mentioned group which has been around for ages and has not been touched.
Also you must be green rank, inexperienced, or biased if you think killers have the upper hand if they're not playing Spirit, Nurse, or Freddy. I play in a duo and the game is easy most of the time, not to mention any more like a 3 man or something.
Survivors whine much more than killers also, js.
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Get better headphones.
On a more helpful note, phase in shorter burst instead of one long phase. I believe ScottJund did a video about it.
So you would phase in a short burst to the scratch marks and do a quick look around, most likely the survivor will be there/close since you know, they have to walk.
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The community seems mostly ok with PH, it seems the vocal minority is running the show again
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1615893#Comment_1615893
Most people are fine with him the way he is, its a very vocal minority who don't like him from what we can tell as of this poll here:
It's actually a "vocal minority" of the vocal minority. Many people who play the game don't have a forum account, and even then it's no guarantee that everyone on the forums has seen and partaken in that poll. Using that as evidence is unreliable because the sample size, for a game as large as DBD is, is actually incredibly tiny.
Unfortunately that's all we got. But a 60/30 ratio is pretty telling, especially because people are much more likely to speak out about what they are against and dislike rather than what they agree with and do like. As far as we can tell, most people are fine with him the way he is. It might be different, but it is much more likely that this will line up with the bigger playerbase.
This thread alone has way more people not wanting him to be nerfed than those that do.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1615773#Comment_1615773
Trust me, there's not a particularly long hold time. If you want to tunnel someone it's incredibly easy; you hit them right after they've been hooked and cage them. Either they get saved, and a survivor gets off a gen (ruin exists so rip their progress) or they die. If they get saved, you're notified, and they die.
Coming from a PH main, a nerf is needed in these areas provided he gets buffed elsewhere
If you want a list of my proposed changes, then sure:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1615354#Comment_1615354
Maybe but instant is a stretch by far. I don't care if you're a mAiN, some of these these ideas are bad. You're not going to get them right after they been hooked unless they get saved right in front of you, which they should get punished for, or you were camping, in which case you lose the game if the survivors aren't potatoes because they will slam gens. This also assumes they have torment. You're also assuming that ruin is being used. This also assumes the survivors don't have BT. Saying "oh you get notified and they die" is ignorant. They'll be across the map, if they stay there after, again that's the survivors fault and they should be punished for it. Tunneling with cages is a horrible idea, you'll spend a lot of time looking for that 1 survivor when you could just hook them and know where they are the whole time. If you want to tunnel you hook, you don't cage.
Random locations would be horrible, the cage could appear right in front of you. The notification of where they get rescued is so you can plan around it the same way you do with hooks since sending them to a cage already loses you pressure in most cases, you don't need to be robbed of info that you'd normally get on top. Increasing the width of the POTD would make it borderline undodgeable with its current speed, let alone faster. The size is fine, its just too slow to hit and has way to long recovery.
The only things I could agree with is increasing the delay after he cancels his power to maybe huntress level, but reducing the recovery time substantially and allowing free movement while dragging, torment applying on hit, and making it hit faster. Players fake his power so much because using it is a huge risk, reducing the risk and increasing the delay for canceling would be fine. He's strong, but by no means Op or needing a nerf. The odds should always be in the killers favor when concerning any singular chase or singular player on the team, since there's 4 of them. We need more killers on a similar level but not all the way up to spirit and Freddy, not dragging them down.
Most people are fine with him the way he is, its a very vocal minority who don't like him from what we can tell as of this poll here:
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@EnderloganYT said:
they do, but things take long amounts of time
lets say they are working on a DS rework so it's less abusable. they need to be careful not to gut the perk, but they also need to make it not stupidly broken. they need it to work against tunnelers, but not against everyone. it's a tricky process.
yeah its not like the community and content creators have made multiple fixes that are pretty well received by others to solve the issue while still keeping it good against tunnelers. Oh wait....
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614459#Comment_1614459
Okay coming from a PH main I can see a couple reasons why.
You press m2 and drag your sword, able to fire off a POTD almost instantly or cancel it 0.5 seconds. This leaves survivors in a pretty lose-lose situation (which is what makes him so fun to play, imo, because you can guarantee chases end quickly).
His cages promote scummy gameplay, like tunneling one survivor to remove them from the game ASAP.
One thing I hope they keep though is the ability to quickly hit through walls. People don't expect it and it makes me very happy hit those really satisfying shots.
Its not instant, there's a decent hold time before you can fire, also if you want to tunnel someone you don't send them across the map to who knows where and giving up your pressure in the process in most cases. Coming from a PH player and survivor player, he's strong but I don't think a nerf is needed unless you're going to buff other areas :)
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@EuphoricBliss35 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614459#Comment_1614459
Why he needs changing? I’m a PH main and I’ve been calling for him to be nerfed. In order of importance (high to low)
1) survivors shouldn’t stay tormented after being hooked. It should be hook or cage, tactical decision. Not “hook, hook, baby mori” or “hook, cage, kill”
2) survivors should be able to rid themselves of torment or it goes away passively after X amount of time
3) reduction in range attack add ons
4) he doesn’t need a stealth add on to ride waves of torment
5) needs small penalty for faking his ability
As a PH player and someone who likes to face him, I hard disagree with all of this except maybe the last one maybe, if they reduce his recovery.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1608506#Comment_1608506
Definitely. I always run Small Game. Maybe now this new hex will incentivize others to cleanse so I’ll no longer be the only one looking for the damned things every round. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve cleansed 3, even 4 totems during a round only to have NOED still activate. It’s really difficult to do that job all by yourself even with Small Game.
Thats what I'm saying, my teammates pretty much never do totems, but they sure do always complain if a hex activates (NoED)
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1608818#Comment_1608818
No i read your post fully and understand what you're saying. I agree they need to do something to help make the totems last a little longer for killers. i have always been for the time it takes to cleanse all totems to be increased a little bit. but to sit here claim I am wanting to ignore a secondary objective as a survivor when you yourself clearly state survivors are doing that very objective obscenely fast, we are not that far apart. the only thing we are apart on is the fact that you want it so killers can ignore that very same secondary objective. I mean I am a survivor main i cant stand playing killer but have played a lot of hours as both and I am for fixing the issue by not making it tied to a second perk and your crying that I need to just run this or that or this other thing. obviously people are doing these things already. so either get on the same dang page and work with us so we can get it done right and not just jump on the us vs them bandwagon. undying needs to be changed. this is not the totem fix needed.
This is literally the totem fix the community has been asking for for actual years, they just sold it back to us in a perk. Its unrealistic to ask the killer to defend a totem that gets cleansed in 16 seconds against 4 survivors. If even 2 of them know its their you are put into a protect the totem and get no value out of it and throw the game, or lose the totem. Something like undying was being asked to be a fundamental mechanic and we got it as a perk instead. Unless you want totem cleansing to take 40 seconds+ or something, which could also work I guess? But I don't think we want more m1 holding from what I understand of the gen time discussions.
The reason why totems get cleansed so fast usually has nothing to do with survivors looking for them, but more their piss poor "hiding" locations, such as out in the open (chapel) or literally right by a gen (lots of maps) or right in a common travel path. I can spawn in, walk to the nearest gen,and a totem will be right there too, I can cleanse it before the killer even has a chance to get to it, let alone defend it. If they do show up, lead them away, if any other survivor knows that totem is there its lost.
I'd rather the whole totem system be reworked in its entirety as its much to easy to just learn the locations on 90% of maps, or just slap on small game if you cant be bothered. The other community suggestion was for hexes to stick around after they were cleansed for a much weaker effect, and not just a dead perk and I actually prefer that solution over undying, but its better then no solution I suppose.
I play both sides as well. I usually cleanse 3-5 totems by myself per match, just in case of NoED and because they are practically thrown at me in a lot of maps. If just one of my teammates is not like they typical survivor main expecting to just ignore totems and whine about whatever hex, then its usually not a problem unless we're on Red Forest or an indoor map.
If you really want to have a discussion don't respond with "you just want to ignore the secondary objective hurr durr" ,"your crying that I need to just run this or that or this other thing" or "not just jump on the us vs them bandwagon" because:
1) Thats not a discussion.
2) addressing none of the points brought up is not going to get you anywhere
3) being accusatory and insulting is not going to get you anywhere
4) you come across as someone who just want to be right, is blinded by their own bias, doesn't read opposing opinions, or lacks the comprehension to understand what was said.
Especially when I specifically stated its an objective for both sides and how that was still in play and the perk just helps the weaker side in the struggle as it should. Throwing insults, accusations, and massive assumptions is not a discussion.
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There are much better tracking perks I would use instead. Maybe on some specific killers, but that's a maybe.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1608800#Comment_1608800
you claim your totems are cleansed within 30 seconds its obvious that survivors are not ignoring the secondary objective.thanks for proving that point for me... but good to see you support being able to ignore a secondary objective if it totally benefits you!
Make a poll Ms.Waaaahhh-I-can't-clense-totems-boo-hoo. See Who agrees. Maybe you'll prove something, maybe you'll see your wrong.
You clearly didn't read my post based on your response, so you clearly don't care about an actual discussion.
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Weak :)
Legion and Clown are pretty much considered the two weakest killers in the game afaik.
Its not up to you how well you do for the most part. Either the survivors group and let you use your power (which is weak btw) or they don't and you're just an M1 killer.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1608746#Comment_1608746
oh you don't say if you protect your totems they do gens wow what a novel concept that's the price you pay for such a strong perk. you can choose to protect the thing that benefits you most and its completely your choice. adding undying has altered that so you can just ignore that secondary objective.
Well your paying 2 perk slots and if the undying itself gets cleansed it doenst matter much. Theres only 5 totems and 4 survivors, so it shouldnt take that long if its really something big. Also if protecting your "strong perk" makes you lose the game, then its not that strong.
Totems needed a change for a loooooooooong time, instead of a base change we got a perk so its meh. Totems get cleansed extremely fast on the norm, its been a big problem for ages. You don't know what you're talking about or you need to git gud. Or again, just equip small game -_-
Its not supposed to be a secondary objective for the killer only, its for the survivors too. You;re the one wanitng to ignore it. You still need to protect undying, you'll still need to protect the new totem spawn. Again, against 4 survivors? not happening. Hell against 2-3 survivors not happening unless you want to throw the game.
Wanting to nerf a perk on killer because its somewhat usable, what a novel concept. I'm done here, hopefully this topic sinks. Make a poll if you really care that much.
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Survivors will say anything that gives them a slight inconvenience or more should not be done, as long as you're not cheating do what you want.
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Not the change I wanted to DS, but I'll take it for now since apparently I tunnel the whole team at the same time lol. Enjoy it while it last.
On a side note, it makes me sad I'm relieved this perk is bugged with how unhealthy it is, really need official changes for it already.
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They're not :)
Either gen times need to go up, map design needs to be fixed, or this start game rework needs to come out already if they're even still doing it.
Don't listen to people saying ApPlY PrEsSuRe because there's no realistic way to pressure all 4 survivors unless they're bad or you're playing Nurse/Spirit. They don't know what they're talking about or are survivor mains with a bias.
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@supersonic853 said:
@Peanits and why can the killer see the survivors items that premotes dodging to and their level to? Just put a black viel over the survivors so then we good thanks!
so the killer can change their perks to something like Lightborn or Franklin's, which would otherwise be so niche they might never get used.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1608685#Comment_1608685
that is the reason the killer sees where his hex totems are at so he can protect them. undying allows the killer to just ignore this secondary objective aspect of the game.
You're not going to be able to protect your totem from 4 survivors, and if you try they just do gens.
If its really that big an issue to you, small game says hello.
The perk is fine.