Mozic
Mozic
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- Mozic
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Breaking a palette is a reset point in the chase because it also permanently exhausts a survival resource from the map - you're gaining something tangible for kicking the palette. If you want to try to retain bloodlust and rely on it to get a hit, you'll have to ignore the palette. If the palette went down in an area where no amount of bloodlust can allow you to catch an informed survivor out (since theyll just slide back and forth indefinitely) - then you have to kick it. That's what makes a "safe" palette "safe"
Bloodlust is already becoming more powerful - retaining it through palette kicking would be overindulgent and force survivors into some very specific (and aggressive) methods for forcing resets of bloodlust in a way that requires strong coordination, meaning that this change would also come at the greatest expense to solo survivors. That's bad.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056911#Comment_3056911
It's reduced for people who want every perk. I have every perk I want, I don't care about prestiging. For me I now have to work through the terrible low level bloodwebs, gamble on the stuff I want being in the higher tier bloodwebs, pay the tax and do it again. This costs way more BP than the current system where I just ignore prestiging cuz I don't care about cosmetics or a sparkly badge.
If you're talking about hunting for rarer addons, they mentioned in today's post that they're going to introduce a solution to make that less of an issue. And unless they never manage to introduce another perk you want in the future, you'll inevitably benefit from the reduced BP cost to get that perk spread onto all of your other characters.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056928#Comment_3056928
Even at teir 3 perks?
Yeah there's no such thing as inventory loss with prestige starting with the coming update. Anything you buy with bp will be yours till you use it.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056888#Comment_3056888
How on earth did anyone think this reduced the grind? It's literally increased.
It's reduced. It's been mathematically proven repeatedly.
What folks are not really getting is that the emphasis for the economy rework has been about making perk acquisition significantly easier and more cost-effective, with costs offset into other areas. It will benefit the community health immensely to make it easier for folks to unlock their perks on everybody without the cost to do so spiraling out of control exponentially (see the original post where they said it takes about 4h of gametime per day to spread all new perks to all characters per chapter compared to the about 1h per day now).
Things like the prestige cost and the removal of BP from WGLF/BBQ are offsets to help control the amount of relief that redesigning the economy to treat perks as more accessible than before (rather than on an approximately even playing field with everything else)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056865#Comment_3056865
I play solo queue as well and I'm looking forward to having an easier time not needing to rely on teammates for certain things.
Granted, I do main killer, but not exclusively. There's reason to be excited on both sides here.
Yeah - when I play survivor its almost exclusively solo and I got tired of having to run BT as a courtesy to my teammates as the expense of my very stupid, very ineffective distraction / bamboozling builds
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@lav3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056771#Comment_3056771
I know. Maybe I overreacted but hope there was QoL change which I can automatically spend bloodpoints on Bloodweb. Both repeating lv.50 bloodweb and spending BP on lv1~20 bloodweb are too tedious.
An auto-spender would be neat, but that sounds like a future QoL thing to push for moreso than something that invalidates anything about what's being added now. There will be more updates in the future 😄
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They've mentioned theyre going to find ways to help make the mandatory prestige not come at the cost to access to higher tiers of addons and such - these announced changes rule, though. It covered like 80% of people's concerns coming out of the PTB on top of what was otherwise looking to be a fantastic patch, so now it's nearly perfect!
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I'm sure the devs understand coefficients - the average player trying to crunch out stats, however? Not so much.
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@C3Tooth said:
Tobe fair, most Mori in Mobile version dont fit the character. I feel the brutal, blood thirst animation fits more with those like Trapper/Oni...
I agree with this really strongly. I like the idea of being able to get different mori animations for killers, but the ones for mobile are just so off the mark. They look like finishers in a Mortal Kombat game, where all the emphasis is on gratuity and spectacle - but at least in Mortal Kombat they also reflect the personality of the characters, which these mobile game moris fail to do.
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@[Deleted User] said:
So DH just doesn't work against Legion with the Endurance change, yeah?
That's my read of it. Legion and Deathslinger are both going to benefit - though I think Deathslinger probably needs the help a little more than Legion in this regard.
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I think it looks super cool! Plus the prestige icons will be a better way of flexing on folks in the future without locking new players out of the ability to partake, too
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The amount of regression these two perks could make together in the PTB was flat-out overtuned for how little it costs the killer to kick a gen using two perks that have no other activation conditions or limitations. It's still strong, now. I think the (brief!) regression penalty is a fine tradeoff for the skill check, plus if a survivor taps the gen right away you can just... kick it again for another 2.5%.
It's really hard to lose in this scenario.
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@MrPotato said:
They actually killed the perk lol, why use it over CoB? No one uses it for the skill checks, so now it's just CoB but with a 30 second startup lol. but overall super good changes for the rest of the update
Use it in addition to Call of Brine. I will 😀
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056467#Comment_3056467
Ok, let's apply this logic to bad survivors, who deserve to escape too then
Of course they do! They do all the time. 🤣 What's the argument here? It's a videogame.
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@egg_ said:
- bloodlust still easier to get when it should be entirely removed (or at least tiers above the first shouldn't exist), especially with chases being simplified by the basekit buffs already. Higher bloodlust tiers only reward bad killers into getting undeserved hits
- still no mention on how this patch should help against camping & tunneling, even though according to how it was publicized on the stream and in the first dev note, it was supposed to focus on these 'tactics' too. As I said elsewhere, the 5 second BT won't help if a killer is hard on tunneling someone. And it doesn't help against camping, that is actually encouraged already by the basekit buffs + the longer generator times, as confirmed by @MandyTalk herself
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4N6RCBFTDPY4/screenshot-20220712-163529.png
But keep pretending these problems don't exist
Bad killers deserve hits too 😀
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They do stack - not sure on the math though
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Yeah, these all seem terrific! Very smart and informed adjustments - excited to try them all out!
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A weak killer with no counterplay? How's that work?
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Isn't "Undetectable" supposed to counter things like aura reading? Otherwise it'd just be obliviousness, right?
I don't see how this is a malfunction.
@charmed said:
Im sorry but there isnt any killer perk that works in advantage of the survivors. So it just isnt balanced.
This is a pretty uninformed statement. Dying Light as already said provides a pretty substantial bonus to the obsession as a core part of its function. Hoarder provides additional chests to the survivors, and Unnerving Presence increases skill check spawns and reduces success zones, both of which actively benefit higher skill survivors who are able to hit great skill checks consistently.
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I tend to take "your killer is boring to play against" as pretty generic salt. Every killer is someone's least favorite, and the survivors you play against aren't entitled to pick who you play or what you bring.
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I don't know how I'd rate them in terms of power, but Demogorgon is definitely lacking in the QoL category imo. All of Demogorgon's camera swaying from placing portals to missing shreds is way to bouncy and swift for me, and the first person vault animation doesn't even visually represent what the Demogorgon is doing. Dredge meanwhile only has to contend with remembering which direction they'll be facing after returning to a husk - everything about teleporting into and out of lockers is very smooth - along with the vault animation, among others.
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@ShyPirate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047028#Comment_3047028
Yes! I would love to see expressions of fear on the survivors' faces. No reason they should look so smug being chased by a psychopath.
Seconded if we carve out an exclusion for Ace, who needs the permasmirk back.
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A (preschool) basement hook spawn would be really smart - they've done similarly in a few other areas like that. Even kicking open one of the side doors isn't a sure bet that the distance from that midsection to the top level will allow for enough time to reach a hook.
That said, it's not really an exploit in the traditional sense. It's abusing flaws in the map design, but it's "intended"
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I was initially against the dissolution icon but after using the perk for a while, if you know they know you have dissolution you can also anticipate them running loops differently while it's active and take full advantage of that.
It's not as destructive as it initially seems.
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@Laluzi said:
Just out of curiosity, were you counting yourself towards survivor flans? If you were always bringing a flan, that kind of skews the data on "do random people bring event offerings?" Could just be MMR brackets/individual samples, but I was seeing more variance in survivor offerings. (Killer offerings look right, though - maybe a shade luckier than I was. Moris were pretty common sights in my survivor games.)
I'd also be curious to know how many (if any) of those killers were farming or let people go, since that kill rate looks low.
Damn, though, it looks like you had some nice games. You only fell sub-10k once out of almost 60 matches.
Yeah, as a killer main I saw the killer bring an average of 1.00 flans per game (it was me 😁)
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I dont think showing SWF before a match is a good idea, but it'd be nice to see afterwards to help folks contextualize their match experience.
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Not only will it be canon, it will be more canon than the base game. The Archivist is fanon writer, it turns out.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037725#Comment_3037725
yeah this makes sense and I'm ok with that.
I guess I always thought endurance effects could not be activated on an already mending person because the only way to do it in the past would have been to use a styptic agent... but you can't use a med-kit while you have endurance active.
Yup that's correct - I had the same misconception. (Although personally I think that being under deep wounds should prevent the ability to gain the endurance effect. Mettle of Man would retain its unique status of circumventing this requirement while all other sources of endurance exist on a level playing field)
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Someone made fanart of a pool party Dredge with a flamingo-headed inflatable tube as the head and pool noodles for the arms while the shadowy mass spews a fountain of water and I haven't wanted anything more intensely.
But generally speaking, Dredge's art direction seems so fertile for so many wild and cool cosmetics, I'm super excited to see what more comes out for them!
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037715#Comment_3037715
ok, so what I'm understanding is that you are not stacking potential endurance effects, but, given the chance, you can activate endurance effects a virtually infinite amount of time before mending (even if at the moment this is not a possibility), correct?
To put this in another form:
it's like if you were in madness tier 3, almost done with your snap out, then you get shocked again and you get your snap out timer reset (this is not how it works, but it's a bit like endurance is working at the moment)?
Endurance stacking shouldn't be possible (multiple active effects of endurance resolve simultaneously on hit)
Endurance chaining is currently possible so long as there are means to continuously tee up new forms of endurance to replace the used up effects.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037489#Comment_3037489
When we talk about intended behaviour, we don't mean to say that this is the best way. Intended behaviour is more about what is or is not a bug. If something falls outside of the intended behaviour, then it is a bug and needs to be fixed.
Beyond that, it all comes down to feedback, and I'm here to collect feedback whether you love it or hate it.
I think a lot of the anxiety behind the talk about endurance is being leveraged on the PTB is that it obfuscates the killer's ability to interpret health states accurately. A killer sees the last survivor they hooked running around, still injured 30 seconds after the unhook, and they assume the survivor has 1 health state but they secretly still have 2 (with a potential 3rd if they're running Dead Hard and time it right). The same killer sees the first survivor they hooked running around healthy and assumes they're good for a chase again but discover they don't just have two health states, they have three! (OTR was still active even though they were healthy) - and, they potentially are still running Dead Hard too so if they time it right then they actually have four.
When the dialogue around killers selecting who to chase is so heavily rooted in moral language ("tunneling is amoral, and something killers do intentionally") - then killers who are repeatedly surprised by colliding facefirst into anti-tunneling resources are both feeling cheated, because they didn't intentionally tunnel, and also feel some degree of admonishment by the mechanics - because they just ate anti-tunnel resources.
I could be off the mark somewhat, but hopefully this helps add some context to why this part of the PTB is getting the reaction it's been getting so far.
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Honestly I used to root so hard for Boil Over as a premiere meme perk but as soon as it got its moment in the spotlight with its overtuned buff it lost all novelty to me - it's a perk that, like Breakout, shouldn't be able to facilitate wiggle escapes on its own - but may be juuust enough to make it happen when it otherwise wouldn't in conjunction with other perks & support. If it can cause wiggle escapes on its own, even unreliably, it's a pretty unhealthy perk and will lead to a lot of spite-slugging.
Otherwise the killer is pushed into a lot of stalemate scenarios where a survivor can repeatedly deny the killer the ability to get hooks just by running into certain corners - like, Flip-Flop + Power Struggle memes at least require a palette to throw. The only endpoint for a Boil Over loop is the bleedout timer, which killers will use.
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Hand-wringing aside, I am genuinely excited for this patch for the basekit killer improvements alone. I've got a soft spot for a number of M1 killers that I have previously been super reluctant to play that I've 180'd on thanks to the speedup for dealing with palettes, and while I'll miss the bp bonus from BBQ it also opens up space in my meme builds for more meme and less build.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037318#Comment_3037318
Yep, exactly. Mettle of Man active at the same time as Off the Record, one hit cancels both. Mettle of Man activating because you took a protection hit with Off the Record, it is expected that you would get two Endurance hits.
That makes sense to me - thanks for clarifying!
I still worry greatly about what sorts of killer meta behaviors seem likely to me to arise out of the ways OTR, DH, and MoM interact (killers prioritizing hitting unhooked survivors immediately to deny OTR and then plausibly continuing to commit to that chase, primarily) - but it's good to have some clarification on what the mechanical expectations are here.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037294#Comment_3037294
We'll look into it to make sure it's working properly, but this may be as intended. Since it gain stacks from protection hits, it's totally possible that Mettle of Man is activating after another Endurance effect, so the effects are never overlapping.
So parsing this, if mettle of man is active and you have OTR it should only be one hit, but if mettle of man is 1 stack short and someone takes an OTR hit, then MoM activates, only then should they be able to take that extra hit?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037274#Comment_3037274
Yeah, the dead hard for distance was never my primary concern. As a Blight and Nurse main, about 95% of the time when survivors used a dead hard, it was completely un-counterable for me because I was forced into a situation where I needed to lunge. The actual “dead hard for distance” scenarios were extremely rare for me. And it’s probably similar for a lot of other Blight or Nurse killers, so the perk didn’t really lose anything against them, and instead got a huge buff because killers get punished even more when they hit a dead hard.
"Dead Hard for distance" is the primary part of the perk that BHVR removed based on their stated intentions - they've done so successfully. Gaining distance with the perk without killer input, specifically. If they get an injury's worth of distance because you hit them, that's fine.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037054#Comment_3037054
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037057#Comment_3037057
We've just tested this internally and I can confirm that it does indeed deactivate both Borrowed Time and Off the Record in a single hit. Anything that grants multiple Endurance effects at the same time should only extend the Endurance effect to the longest duration, not allow you to take multiple hits.
However, using Dead Hard to block another hit afterwards is expected since the Endurance effect only begins once you use it, so the Endurance effects are not stacking.
If you do notice that two Endurance effects stack (as in they're active at the same time and allow you to take multiple hits, like with Borrowed Time and Off the Record), please be sure to report this as a bug. This is not the intended behaviour.
Thanks for testing and letting us know! Especially in terms of framing what is/is not intended helps us a lot when it comes to interpreting what we're seeing in the PTB since our default reflex is generally to see anything that happens as intended.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I'm pretty sure Off The Record deactivates with the same hit BT does.
You would be incorrect.
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Cmonnnnnn BHVR. Whoever is working off an old fork needs to clean their utensils.
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Oh bother
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I love me some analytics! Beyond using it to stage endless arguments on the forum, it's just neat to see 😄
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Based on what I've seen them say about their data tracking in various contexts, I believe it looks like this:
BHVR has backend metrics that are technically perfect in terms of tracking outcomes and loadouts, compared to the handful of aggregate data collection sites online that only pool from voluntary contributors. They don't have any kind of tool that lets them "replay" a match and see how it went. A disconnection is not a kill, and they have a way to distinguish between a hatch escape (which is treated as a draw in MMR contexts) and a gate escape (a win).
I'd guess they don't have anyone manually reviewing individual matches. They've said they use a combination of internal playtesting, player feedback (from this forum, twitter, youtube, and other platforms), and the backend match data to make their balancing decisions.
That said, I think the presence of these "oddball case" factors are not as much of a danger to the quality of the metrics as you might think. These are all things that have been in the game since its inception. The thing that has NOT been in the game since its start? SBMM. If the devs were seeing a consistent rate of kills prior to the introduction of SBMM (and again after tweaking the system after the SBMM tests) and are now seeing an entirely different one now that the system has been fine-tuned, it's probably safe to guess that the quality of matches increasing has put killers and survivors on more even footing in terms of performance, which has potentially meant a less equitable experience between killers and survivors (the idea being that in higher variance matches of the past, the tools that allow survivors to escape efficiently were not always leveraged to their fullest extent, but now killers are seeing groups of survivors who can more consistently use those tools every match - leading to lower kill rates)
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Yeah, I was wondering about that myself - I'd tried Guardian a few times as a potential BT buff but found it underwhelming by comparison. I was hoping it might amplify the haste effect now, but if it doesn't... looks like it needs some attention!
Maybe it was one of the few that were in the "40+" that didn't make the cut?
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030422#Comment_3030422
This is actually a lie, many people don't know but slinger has an audio cue that plays when he aims at you its sort of like a ringing sound, however faint it is in the game and a good survivor can make use of it.
Oh shoot! Thanks for the tip! I'm gonna see if I can go isolate that for my own benefit now.
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Honestly - I spent the whole first week and last weekend grinding out for the things I wanted to do before the prestige rework, and have a big pile of flans on every killer I enjoy playing.
For now, I rest. 😴
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It'd be much easier if the Entity would abandon these weird standards around hooking and just let us killers do what we do best! 😩
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To the first, "Cages are not hooks" applies universally - uncaging didn't activate BT before, so it's safe to assume this new basekit BT won't either.
To the second, god yes please. They're so dull and built on the assumption that Pyramid Head will be carving entire mazes of goop when that's neither practical nor possible.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031975#Comment_3031975
They need to make Clown's speed bottles activate faster. They feel so clunky to use. There's no reason to have that long of a delay when he also has to spend time reloading if he's using all his bottles to get around the map.
Doesn't need to be anything crazy either, just a half second off, if that.
Just throw them further ahead of you so they activate by the time you reach the cloud 🤡
The activation delay is to keep it from being an iwin button in chase.
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@HexPleaseLetMeSpeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032014#Comment_3032014
But see that's my problem, I don't think tunneling is a thing you should put in the hands of the survivor to solve, it is their issue in terms of they have to deal with it, but it's also not THEIR issue, you get me?
Making tunneling worse, will just leave killers with NO good strat. Perks with tokens clearly didn't work as going for multiple hooks was still bad. Unless they start reworking token perks into having MUCH better rewards as compared to now, then yea maybe. But how long will we have to wait for that? It already took them years to solve dead hard.
Perks with tokens clearly didn't work? BBQ was the most-used perk by killers, and No Way Out is crazy effective! The trick is that these perks are only effective if they aid you in the lategame or postgame, as there's a built-in acknowledgement that you're not likely to get value out of it otherwise. It's more accurate to say that they have a relatively narrow range of application, since I think with this exact update hitting the PTB there's an implicit acknowledgement that perks can't really be expected to maintain the game's health (see Pop Goes the Weasel being a stellar incentive to leave hooks, but answers to Pop led to a decrease in usage and the incentive became less common)
And tunneling is absolutely the survivor's problem to solve - the killer is supposed to chase survivors. Useful obsession-based or token-based perks may shape their mental arithmetic on who to chase, but otherwise it'll usually default to "whoever's closest" or in some cases "whoever is most annoying to me". Survivors have a ton of resources available to interfere with tunneling - perks, bodyblocking, harassing pickups, and even just taking full advantage of being left unpressured to breeze through uncontested gens. Introducing a basekit reason for killers to need to perform some kind of enforced round robin ordering of hooking would be a lot similar to forcing survivors to repair specific generators in a certain order. You might need to apply some forethought to avoiding a 3-gen (or in the killer's case, avoid DS and other anti-tunneling measures) but over-engineering a solution could become tedious and lead to a lot more 'bad behavior' than you started with.
It's much better to respect the incentives the game's basic win conditions have cemented and work to make it mutually enjoyable - which means fairer, not more technical.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3031977#Comment_3031977
I believe this with every fiber of my being.
It's not about the bloodpoints... it's about sending a message.