Master
Master
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@Maj33y said:
Please do something about Cheaters it's getting way out of hand 8 out of 10 matches I end up against cheaters ... I got really frustrated and angry .. nothing I could do about it except sending Trash talk but guess what ? That's against the rules and it's funny how those damn cheaters reported me for cursing them but they get nothing for Abusing the Game ... it defintely ruins the game .. at least have a mechanic like Blacklisting some users so you never have to match up with again .. cause the current report system is absolutely uselessThere are so many ways to abuse mechanics in the game.... you dont even need cheats for that.
Oh and what cheats are you refering to? Speedhacks? -
What downing animation are you refering to?
Since the pick up vacuum is gone I have to search for the survivor quite frequently after wiping my weapon btw (against non-tenacity survivors) -
@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre said:
@Fre_Shavacado0 said:
@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre yeah, but if anything it just makes them look annoying imoOh, definitely. Nobody likes cocky Survivor mains.
Sometimes I like them, its quite enjoying to punish them and rendering them crying on the floor after they tbagged and clicked at your face.
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@JammyJewels said:
Are there any customisation options you view as being incredibly stealthy? Also, share an combinations you you think work!I stopped using my P3 Claudette in exchange for the Fog Travellers set. But boy, you're basically invisible most of the time.
Be aware that you might get dodged for it.
After a green squad of claudettes on swamp, im not gonna do that to myself again, especially since nvidia freestyle isnt working anymore -
@MineAntoiya said:
Yay or Nay?Personally, after getting my ass handed to me by 2 flashlight Claudettes (Just 2...) while doing my best to look at walls, I see just how unfair it is. Of course I was running the standard NOED + Ruin. And the only reason I get a kill is due to that beautiful savior of a perk (Guess I'm a NOED "Noob" huh?) Why can't we get an honest look into how they're going to play instead of being downright lied to? Guess I'll always have to run Lightborn just in case.
Just dodge the lobby if they didnt ready up at the 15 or 10 second mark, especially if they are SWF.. Unless you are low rank, you should find a new lobby in no time
Yes quickswitching is just pathetic and the fact that its still a thing after this time is just ridiculous, but then if you look at the devs and what other problems they ignore..... well just find your own way how to deal with it
If I didnt pay attention and someone managed to quickswitch while I was on the bloodweb or sth like that, then I will be the sweaties killer you have ever seen and I will make sure that they suffer for the quickswitch
(If you were in the lobby of a quickswitcher, then you will regret it too, you could have dodged on your own at the 10 sec mark, I do that e.g. when I play survivor because I dont like toxic mates) -
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Hey. Been enjoying facing the Clown. PS4 player here so he's new to me as we only just got him on Thursday night. He's a lot of fun. Love that laugh when he hits you.Enjoy it while you can. I couldnt play the first few days after the PC DLC and after these days noone plays him anymore..... We are back to the old meta killers because clown is just a joke compared to them
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Everyone plays for their own enjoyment. The only time I question killer tactics is when they camp or tunnel. Is it really fun to stand and watch someone slowly die on a hook while gens pop off left and right? Is that really a fun time for someone, or even a good play strategy?Nah camping isnt fun, but it is necessary sometimes.
Tunneling however is fun indeed, because tunneling is just playing the game normally, but focusing on the already hooked survivor. This is in fact a good strategy and I challenge you to explain why tunneling would be a bad strategy
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The generator number wasnt removed, if you cant see it then thats a bug
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I suggest you play killer on your own (not at rank 20, climb to high ranks) and then you will uner stand how long a single survivor can actually loop the killerFixTheCamping said:
What how could u say that for 1 killer moves way faster than a survivor can cause damage to a survivor and the survivor cant fight back your going to catch them no matter if the killer has skill or not because once u get the feel u cant get them u tunnel then camp them its a known fact its a killer 101Orion said:@FixTheCamping said:
It should based off skill not because a killer decides to camp its just unfairAnd how does a Killer camp, exactly, without first being more skilled than the Survivor he caught? It's definitely based on skill. Specifically, the lack of skill from the Survivor.
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Or just introduce casual and ranked mode like any other Competitive game, don't allow SWF in ranked
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@Tizzle said:
@Runiver said:
People asked for this.
They served back the easy mode.
The killer's queues were actually taking AGES before this change because, for some reasons, survivors did not manage to rank up efficiently.Hard for Survivior to pip.
Easy for Killer to pip.
Killer queues end up taking forever.
You don't think this was a problem?
Both killer and survivor is easy to pip until you reach the ranks where players play as efficient as possible, i.e. a proper genrush. At this rank the killer will depip/blackpip and the survivor will blackpip/pip most of the games
The emblem system might be fine at low ranks but fact is that gentime is way too low in order to get emblems in that time
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@TheXenoborg said:
@Master said:
@TheXenoborg said:
Killers are bringing moris while survivors are bringing BNPs, while both put the Party Streamer offering. It doesn't make sense. Something about these events encourages the community to be overtly toxic. I don't know what causes this bEhaviour.So killers bring moris and put party offering at the same time, explain that pls
Haha! Well you know...4 Streamers by survivors, 1 secret mori offering. You get the point. But ok that was funny :P
So did I understand that correctly that if the killer brings a mori to a 4 man streamer offering party from teh survivors, then this is considered toxic?
Quite interesting :P
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Tunneling isn't bad, actually it is bad not to tunnel unless you are one of those clowns who farms with survivors^^8BITLORD said:So Ive got about 16 comments on my profile about how im a "gay ass [BAD WORD] ######### who tunnels to make up for lack of skill".
What is tunneling in your opinions?
Why is it so wrong to kill the survivor who is injured when they get unhooked IN FRONT OF YOU BEFORE YOU GET A CHANCE TO LEAVE?Yes im salty, but why do survivors hate it so much?
Doesnt it seem logical to hunt the easiest prey near you?
Its a game about time, and you save time by attacking the easier prey.
Just ignore salty survivor comments, they are just upset that they didn't manage to escape even in this outrageous unbalance (yes I belive most survivorß are aware how op they are) -
@Slimette said:
Man that sucks #########....they should really make servers or something!it costs money and the community keeps throwing money at them even with all the problems, so devs believe everythign is fine
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@TheTimeMachine said:
@Orion It can seem close to “nothing being done” though... I mean, I could disconnect 50 straight matches and have no repercussions.Did you actually try that? 50 DCs in row and not even a warning email or sth like that?
Pathetic...... just pathetic.... -
@Why_Are_You_Salty said:
They don't like doing bloodhunts because of this, but who cares it's double bp idc and there is way less toxicity in low ranks on PS4 only people who steal my stacks of WGLF.Well in low ranks everything is still fine (except queue time). When players get more experienced in playing the game, thats when the unbalance of this game does not only shine through, it literally hits you in the face
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@TheXenoborg said:
Killers are bringing moris while survivors are bringing BNPs, while both put the Party Streamer offering. It doesn't make sense. Something about these events encourages the community to be overtly toxic. I don't know what causes this bEhaviour.So killers bring moris and put party offering at the same time, explain that pls
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@only1biggs said:
I'm sorry, but this was some of the worst gameplay from a Billy I have ever seen.You need to get better and stop expecting kills to land in your lap and then post about how this can be considered the "state of the game", with a video titled "Frustrated".
This was embarrassing
Yet the emblem system decides to rank him a rank 8 killer. Yes, the ranking system is completely broken and you will face enemies who are not even close to your skillevel
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@DasMurich said:
I'll echo the sentiment - the lobby times really, really suck right now. It's taking about 45 minutes just to play 2 games.Pretty lengthy wait for survivors to join, you get three and everyone just waits on the last one to come in until eventually one or two drop out. Keep waiting. Keep waiting.
One of the reasons I got this game was because of the consistent number of players, it baffles me how it takes so damn long to play.
If the ranking system is causing this, in part, it needs to go. I can't see how there's any benefit to it if it's contributing to this. I just want to play.
Survivor mains usually play survivor because it is so easy and you dont need anything to do it.
Now during the BP event they switch to killer because you can get more BP this way, but -nature of survivor mains- their killers are on low rank because they dont want to deal with the ######### they do to the killers themselves -
@Jack11803 said:
@Master said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Master said:
@MineAntoiya said:
1 game, was pretty much face camped with another survivor to deny us any BP gain. Then next game a killer insta leaves to deny us 2 Blood Party Streams.Dear you killers: You are RUINING THE GAME and putting EVERYONE AT A DISADVANTAGE. I have no respect for you, and if I met you in real life, I would most likely do something violent as I have no place in my world for arrogance and stupidity.
Have a bad day
Easy solution, dont break the game by using a BNP and the killer will play normally with you. (same with DS btw)
I doubt that the killer DCed because of the party offerings, he would benefit from the BP bonus too.
I DCed in a game with 2 bloody offerings yesterday because I accidentally selected my prestiged killer with 0 perks (sorry, but im not gonna play like that, maybe you encountered me
)@Master said:
As killer it doesnt matter who uses the BNP, as part of a 4 man survivor team you are responsible for the actions the team does. If the killer finds you first after the BNP was used, then you will pay for it, even if the BNP was used by some nea and not you^^
1) You assume they’re a 4 man SWF, and punish different survivors for other actions while not knowing, sorry, but that’s just ridiculous, and has absolutely no justice in it. Same with DCing, I don’t care how you feel about stuff, I’m a rank 1 killer, play all the time, and I NEVER EVER DC
For the first thing, clearly then you’ve just never met a malicious, or destructively stupid person then, their are many killers, who upon seeing a bunch of streamers DC right at the start.
I assume nothing, even if all of them are solo players, as killer you only see a enemy team you are versing and if one of them behaves like a toxic ######### blinking at my face or using BNPs to reduce 5 min games even more, then I will act accordingly.
If you are a soloplayer you can communicate strategies before the game, thats what the 1min countdown is for, its not just there to give you the possibility to quickswitchIf a team decides to pop 2 gens before I even see a single survivor and I havent used any good stuff on my side, then I wont bother with the game and simply quit. Survivors do it regularly too and I dont see a reason why I shouldnt lol
So you have no power in this world, no will o your own to change a thing? You get hurt, so you hurt others? Be a better person, don’t be in the sad state of shambles you’re currentally in. You’ll never get change like this. Lots of people don’t really use beginning chat anyway. AND it’s not even there on console, you don’t have enough time to DM either
Its not eye for an eye.
If the survivor team decides to end the game as fast as possible, then I will change my tactic accordingly and try to get some kills as fast as possible before the game ends.
If survivors are over altruistic and hover around me, then I will use that for my advantage too.
Its always funny in my eyes when a killer who uses his brain gets insulted for changing his playstyle to counter the survivors playstyle and is called out being a toxic killer trying to ruin the survivors fun. These are the moments, when I actually smile and wonder why these plebs actually bought the game to play survivor (maybe they watched ochido streams etc, but I dont know).
If people dont really use the chat anyway (I know that for a fact because I play survivor too), then I ask you why you dont simply ready up and start the game? Yeah console is a different story, but lets not talk about that here, its a different "more casual" playstyle if I am allowed to say that
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@EpicFailTryHard said:
a sincere and heartfelt thank you. i have had as much fun playing this game tonight as i did the first night the game came out on ps4. i can play killer again without the necessity of camping and tunneling. that is all i ever wanted. i wish a long and prosperous career for all of you. this is still the very best videogame i have ever played. you guys are truly awesome.Werent you the one who proudly posted a youtube video showcasing your non-tunnel, non-camp 4k at rank 18? Yeah, this is when the game actually is fun. Its just sad that you purposely have to dernak in order to achieve this. but yeah I decided to do the same
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The reason?
Its quite simple, broken balance and no intention to provide a healthy game athmosphere when we are talking about banns etc.Lets talk about streamers for example, there is the side who doesnt give a ######### about the game and basically interacts more with the chat than they play the game, thats fine but its more like an IRL stream at that point which gets interupted by occasional skillchecks
Then there is the side that tries to play the game competively, this is where the unbalance shines through. Survivors just shitting on killers and rendering them completely useless on one side or killer mains who ######### on boosted survivors who dont actually belong to rank 1 (thanks emblem system btw)
And then there is the side who just makes money from being toxic, trying to bully killers so hard that they DC and then feeling proud about their accomplishment.As a normal gamer, after having observed a few streams in DBD, I ask you, what side do you want to participate in?
Play competitively in an absolutely broken game without ranked rewards or be a toxic shithead or derank and have fun with meme builds?No matter what you do, it will be called "tunnel/camp", "toxic survivor" or toxic deranker tring to bully noobs
Welcome to DBD
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@Jack11803 said:
@Master said:
@MineAntoiya said:
1 game, was pretty much face camped with another survivor to deny us any BP gain. Then next game a killer insta leaves to deny us 2 Blood Party Streams.Dear you killers: You are RUINING THE GAME and putting EVERYONE AT A DISADVANTAGE. I have no respect for you, and if I met you in real life, I would most likely do something violent as I have no place in my world for arrogance and stupidity.
Have a bad day
Easy solution, dont break the game by using a BNP and the killer will play normally with you. (same with DS btw)
I doubt that the killer DCed because of the party offerings, he would benefit from the BP bonus too.
I DCed in a game with 2 bloody offerings yesterday because I accidentally selected my prestiged killer with 0 perks (sorry, but im not gonna play like that, maybe you encountered me )@Master said:
As killer it doesnt matter who uses the BNP, as part of a 4 man survivor team you are responsible for the actions the team does. If the killer finds you first after the BNP was used, then you will pay for it, even if the BNP was used by some nea and not you^^
1) You assume they’re a 4 man SWF, and punish different survivors for other actions while not knowing, sorry, but that’s just ridiculous, and has absolutely no justice in it. Same with DCing, I don’t care how you feel about stuff, I’m a rank 1 killer, play all the time, and I NEVER EVER DC
For the first thing, clearly then you’ve just never met a malicious, or destructively stupid person then, their are many killers, who upon seeing a bunch of streamers DC right at the start.
I assume nothing, even if all of them are solo players, as killer you only see a enemy team you are versing and if one of them behaves like a toxic ######### blinking at my face or using BNPs to reduce 5 min games even more, then I will act accordingly.
If you are a soloplayer you can communicate strategies before the game, thats what the 1min countdown is for, its not just there to give you the possibility to quickswitchIf a team decides to pop 2 gens before I even see a single survivor and I havent used any good stuff on my side, then I wont bother with the game and simply quit. Survivors do it regularly too and I dont see a reason why I shouldnt lol
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As killer it doesnt matter who uses the BNP, as part of a 4 man survivor team you are responsible for the actions the team does. If the killer finds you first after the BNP was used, then you will pay for it, even if the BNP was used by some nea and not you^^
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Inform yourself where the mask is manufactured, then do an educated decision whether it is worth the price for you
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@EpicFailTryHard said:
i am going to post this for now and read/respond to the rest later tonight.i stopped playing killer as much about 2 months ago. I got tired of trying to get even with people or punish them. so many times, i would find myself trying to rid myself of some feeling that incurred 10 games ago by trying to inflict it on others that weren't even there. I found that doing good as a killer meant that I had to camp and tunnel which is just not my thing.
a friend of mine once said, "i feel how i live". meaning, if he lives crappy, it only follows he will feel crappy. being happy is of the utmost importance to me these days.
for one to say that they do not become emotionally involved in this game means that they experience no sense of competition. I find this idea rather bizarre as this is indeed a competition, so I do find myself becoming emotionally invested in the experience. the harassment from swf only compounded the impact of depipping and minimal bloodpoints.
i will now return to playing killer more as i have found i can get points and pip while not having to camp or tunnel. this was always a playstyle i was forced into by swf. a killer that still camps or tunnels under the new system is bad. they just are, as they are only minimizing their own points. major kudos to the devs. they have been very good to us.
I am curious, why do you consider tunneling sth only a bad killer would do?
I see no logical reason not to tunnel -
Be glad that you only lose the offering, the killer loses addons and offerings when survivors DC
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@Boss said:
This isn't to complain, criticize or whatever, just to clarify.It just occured to me...
Didn't the devs once say that they would like to refrain from using more stereotypical killer designs?
That came up on a stream once when someone asked if there could be a zombie killer.
Now i don't know about you, but a clown killer wouldn't exactly scream "original" to me.
And yes, he might be original as in that he has throwable toxic bottles. But that doesn't make the concept original.
Give a zombie the ability to spawn robots and that would be original, but it'd still be a zombie.I'm probably looking too deep into this...
Devs say a lot to please the community, hatch closing mechanic, DS nerf etc etc
In the end they only cater towards survivors and we end up receiving more and more weak killers such that the high rank meta has no variation at all (I have literally played against 3 or 4 clowns since the update) -
@MikeLatin7 said:
what do disconnectors get they get to keep their med kits, flashlights, tools boxes it's not fair, do something pleaseIts fair for 80% of the community, so its almost fair overall
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@Orion said:
You're not supposed to report them. If they disconnect too many times, they get banned automatically.Yeah the only problem with the system is that "too much" is considered to be a 70% DC rate or sth. I can confirm that with a 50% DC rate you are still fine to go
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@Lowbei said:
lol dribbling is very legitNah dribblind is bannable and gentap is ok
Funny that dribbling was adressed by devs, but gentap works still very well -
@Tsulan said:
As killer is see survivors using BNP and disconnecting left and right during this event.
So it´s bad for both sides. No one wants to gain BPsKiller doesnt get anything if survivors genrush with BNP, so he might aswell leave
Think about both sides and you will gain deeper understanding how this game actually works -
@MineAntoiya said:
1 game, was pretty much face camped with another survivor to deny us any BP gain. Then next game a killer insta leaves to deny us 2 Blood Party Streams.Dear you killers: You are RUINING THE GAME and putting EVERYONE AT A DISADVANTAGE. I have no respect for you, and if I met you in real life, I would most likely do something violent as I have no place in my world for arrogance and stupidity.
Have a bad day
Easy solution, dont break the game by using a BNP and the killer will play normally with you. (same with DS btw)
I doubt that the killer DCed because of the party offerings, he would benefit from the BP bonus too.
I DCed in a game with 2 bloody offerings yesterday because I accidentally selected my prestiged killer with 0 perks (sorry, but im not gonna play like that, maybe you encountered me ) -
Sorry for a beginner killer like you
Now most of the survivor mains are farming BP with killer on low rank -
Yeah that's the reason I usually take the time and drank, during BP event I only played normal and already climbed jnto purple ranks....DocOctober said:xThe amount of bullshit one has to deal with from Survivors and unbalanced game mechanics is unbelievable. If it weren't for the Blood Hunt, I wouldn't play at all.
I'm sorry, but the idiots on the dev team who thought that the game is balanced up there have either never been on high ranks or are proper lunatics, otherwise it's neither explainable nor understandable.
Pretty much everything is stacked against you, map layout, pallet amount, pallet distance, game mechanics, overpowered Survivor Perks and Add-ons.
If there was a button to lower my rank 5-10 ranks, I'd press it this instant. Even if you play 100% optimally, you can't win in most cases unless the Survivors make a big mistake and you can capitalise on it, as much has the no pip squad shown.
And for everyone claiming "but no one ever plays like the no pip squad", I've had 5 such games in the past 15. That's 1 out of every 3 games with a pseudo-no pip squad.
I think I will have to drank even during the event in order to keep my sanity and farm some more BP^^ -
Well there is a simple solution, just dodge flashlights in lobby and you can play normal games
If you dont wanna be that guy, then I suggest you try a slugging build on nurse (or huntress if you are not compfortable with nurse) -
Yeah I noticed that too, scratch marks are harder to see, especiall on grass and in corners
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@ThePloopz said:
Master said:@ThePloopz said:
Isn’t it funny how people say rank doesn’t mean anything/doesn’t matter but sees rank 18 and immediately assumes they’re noobs lol
Rank doesnt mean anything because every pleb can reach high ranks with the new systems.
But that also means that the survivors hovering at rank 18 are complete beginners that are learning the basic of the game atm (btw, yesterday I started playing killer as rank 17 and the rank 17 queue took 30 minutes because everyone is at least green rank)
You don’t know why they are rank 18, they could be purposely de-pipping for whatever reason or they could have not played until this week for the double bp and 2.0 patch. Point is people can’t say rank doesn’t matter and then go judge someone by their rank. Now saying high ranks don’t matter I’d understand
Of course there will always be special snowflakes, but talking from my own experience, most low ranks at the moment are actually learning the game.
Usually they play SWF with a high rank and get completely demolished by non-beginner killers while their rank 1 mate clicks at the killers face trying to get his attention -
@The_Manlet said:
@Master said:
I assume that you are low rank,
I started playing killer yesterday on rank 17 and I literally had to wait 30 minutes for my first game. The higher I got the faster queue times became and now that I am rank 8 I instantly find survivors.You can blame the emblem system for that, every survivor pips now because pip is not a rank reward, it is a participation reward
Pipping was even easier under the old system. The reason it is hard to get a lobby right now is because survivor mains are all playing killer during the double bloodpoint weekend. You could notice the change as soon as the event went live.
No, piping in the first iteration of the emblem system was definitely not easy, but it was doable (would have been perfect for the "rank" reward)
Yeah ofc survivor mains flooding low rank with their killers is a problem during the event too, becuse most of them are not "rank 1 killers" as they state on the forum all the time
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Because they dont want to play against you, the reason for that could be
- ping
- swf
- too many items /specific items
- toxic names
- spamming ready up
- legacy
- twitch/youtube plebs
- not readied up till 15 sec mark (quickswitching)
- known survivor (blacklist or sth like that)
Maybe I forgot sth, but thats the usual reasons
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Ruin will always be mandatory until devs fix gens
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@xray362 said:
There ratio between survivors and killers is skewed so there aren't enough to go aroundonly on low ranks
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@M2Fream said:
I think they need to be more specific threats to be taken seriouslyFor example "Im going to kill you" is not as serious as "Im going to come into your house and slit your throat tonight"
Someone once told me post game that
"I hope you get raped by a black man and eaten alive by tigers"So I would look for specific or extremely vulver threats to report, otherwise just bathe in the salt.
That is a very specific threat indeed and it is a bannable offense (whether devs actually do sth, thats a different story sadly)
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Your killer rank is too low, most survivors are high rank because it is so easy to pip.
Also there are a lot of survivor mains playing killer atm because you can get more BP this way, and guess what, their killers are on low ranks -
I assume that you are low rank,
I started playing killer yesterday on rank 17 and I literally had to wait 30 minutes for my first game. The higher I got the faster queue times became and now that I am rank 8 I instantly find survivors.You can blame the emblem system for that, every survivor pips now because pip is not a rank reward, it is a participation reward
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Yeah, but on the other hand you dont actually need shards, you can forget about cosmetics anyway
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@ThePloopz said:
Isn’t it funny how people say rank doesn’t mean anything/doesn’t matter but sees rank 18 and immediately assumes they’re noobs lolRank doesnt mean anything because every pleb can reach high ranks with the new systems.
But that also means that the survivors hovering at rank 18 are complete beginners that are learning the basic of the game atm (btw, yesterday I started playing killer as rank 17 and the rank 17 queue took 30 minutes because everyone is at least green rank) -
@EpicFailTryHard said:
a game where i play the pig. i hooked 3 survivors twice and one of them once. no tunneling-no camping. all escaped. i would have hooked them a third time had i the opportunity. i also don't mess with them when they have a box on their head. strategically garbage and isn't "playing fair" in my book. i gained a pip and mass bloodpoints no more excuses. it can be done without playing like one's own personal issues have taken dominance in their own mindYes it can be done at rank 18
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GT_Legend2 said:SWF clearly shows how much this game can be abused, and killers suffer drastically, so why not give hem a little compensation for pipping when versing them?
I have said that for ages now, either dwf indicator or an extra queue and killers sadistic enough to go up against SWF get extra BP in that queue
SWF is nothing that should be part of ranked though because it clearly breaks things -
Yes but it's the new players who buy dlcs like feeds etc. Those are the players throwing money at them, a salty killer main with 500 hours isn't going to pay a cent to bhvr, so try don't care about themItsDaEmuDood said:@Master said:
Freddy is already really strong in low ranks because low rank survivors dont know how to deal with him.
Also SC isnt used on rank 20 because the teachable isnt learned yet.Yes its sad, but devs are balancing the game around rank 20 gameplay (funny but by their logic, nurse actually needs a buff
)This is very sad. The devs need to get it together, and start balancing around Rank 1 - 5 gameplay. That's where the good players are, that's where the good balancing needs to be: up there with them. It's so stressful that the better you become, the fewer options you have for success. I mean, what's the point of creating all these Killers if you're only going to need three of them in top tier play. This is terrible, and there's no excuse for it. If people wanna have fun, you're going to need to suck, at least for the time being. We shouldn't be forced to choose between withholding our rank or playing a diversity of Killers. It just isn't fair.
Also you have to understand that the nature of the game is 1vs4 and thus survivors represent 80% of the wallets too