LordGlint
LordGlint
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- LordGlint
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Thats still a thing for when 2 ppl are left.
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@TheTom20 said:
When i'm survivor i haven't had a single game without someone dcing since the no penalty
weirdly when i play killer it's pure an utter sweat an no one dcsIts pretty random... had a match this morning right b4 the event was over that had someone about 2 minutes into the match not even bother trying to run and just left.
https://youtu.be/mFb8y8pf2lE?si=-Oh15dnwV3SQvszg -
@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969914#Comment_3969914
Yep, this will be remaining the same as it was on the PTB.
Sweet, should be a fun time to play clown.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969784#Comment_3969784
Regardless of how the game is played, that's extremely early for a steamroll to happen. It's not a rare thing either, which is concerning since it is when Survivors are strongest like you said. I'm not necessarily saying there should be infinite covers for bad plays, but there really should be something that prevents that scenario from happening as frequently or as easily as it does.
What really SHOULD you do about players who are willingly making these risky plays though? The best case scenario if your trying for a pallet save is the killer is denied a hook, while the worst case is the killer has 2 ppl down. If you take away the inherent risk, there's no reason for ppl NOT to constantly make these plays. Ppl hate when the game ends at 5 gens, but are completely OK with trying to deny the very first hook.
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If you didnt follow up with video footage and a report through the website, it doesnt really matter anyways. You dont have to worry.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969715#Comment_3969715
I don't understand. The hardest to pull off or the hardest to balance?
The beginning of the match is when survivors are at their strongest. It would generally mean getting 4 ppl down during this time is the hardest to pull off as compared to literally any other time during the trial when pallets have been used up. Generally when this happens, its because people get caught trying for pallet saves and such instead of being spread out on gens. Had a game like this just last night… a team of 4 Aces essentially threw the match trying for a pallet save while injured.
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That part of houndmaster's power has always been a royal pain. I WANT to like her, but the simplest thing is a headache.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969569#Comment_3969569
But does that make it acceptable?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969583#Comment_3969583
Essentially this (also sorry you got banned).
You said it was too easy to down everyone at the start. I was just pointing out thats essentially the part of the game it would be the HARDEST.
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@UnicornMedal said:
Almost guaranteed it's going to be the 3-gen version of slugging, which is sad if true. It's still entirely too easy to down everyone at the start of the trial and trigger a surrender.
The start of the trial is when all the resources are still available. If you can down all 4 ppl at the start, they massively missplayed.
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It was Doctor just because I sucked at tracking.
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The knife twirl when clown gets a hit.
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@RizeKagune said:
Mikey now has increased Lunge tier 1 😏
HHonestly... I'd take it.
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If your 1 of 2 left, why would you wait for someone to die before trying to 4%?
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@dbdbdbd said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PKPJGEU9T4G5/dc.png
Just more examples of the same old stuff
Stop camping them. Clearly you should go to a different map, lol.
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Blink twice if someone is forcing you to do this
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@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968763#Comment_3968763
Yes, you are right that it's main use is for going after survivors in groups. But I'm specifically referring to scenarios where a survivor is forced to trade hook states with someone to prevent them from dying. And typically, in a situation like this, the unhooker goes down, which would proc the perk and apply the hinder to the unhooked survivor which would influence the killer to tunneling them. And let's be real you're more likely to get value from the perk this way than survivors that just happened to be grouped together.
Sidenote... finding survivors grouped up happens alot more than you'd think, whether its finding ppl healing while playing a stealth killer or finding ppl greeding a gen instead of healing. That last part is why I like using surge so much, because their sacrifice into adrenaline plan gets thwarted.
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@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968763#Comment_3968763
Yes, you are right that it's main use is for going after survivors in groups. But I'm specifically referring to scenarios where a survivor is forced to trade hook states with someone to prevent them from dying. And typically, in a situation like this, the unhooker goes down, which would proc the perk and apply the hinder to the unhooked survivor which would influence the killer to tunneling them. And let's be real you're more likely to get value from the perk this way than survivors that just happened to be grouped together.
The unhooked survivor would essentially find themselves in the same position as if the killer brought many other chase perks. STBFL, rapid brutality, nothing but misery and batteries included are examples of perks that can also help get rapid hits in while limiting the distance survivors can make. Thats the case with most chase perks in general. If you're hooked in basement like you said and the killer has Blood favor in that same situation, you're probably not making it to a pallet.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968637#Comment_3968637
Why are you buying a console to use mouse and keyboard? That's besides the point anyway. Input methods were clearly excluded from the conversation when we're talking about 3rd party programs and not controllers lol.
In that case, can we talk about voice chat? Nintendo switch doesnt have ANY.
As for the first part though... I dont think anyone buys consoles because they hate the option of using kbm. Controllers are able to be used on PC.
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@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968276#Comment_3968276
So in situations where you down an unhooker, forced hesi activates, and the unhooked survivor moves 20% slower, would that not create a good window for the killer to tunnel?
Only if you could down the unhooker within 16 meters of the recently unhooked guy. You'd think if the recently unhooked guy WASNT being hit or chased, he'd be running a different direction. Forced hesitation is more for hitting multiple ppl when they group up. The fact that can include someone recently unhooked and doesnt differentiate who it effects based off hook order doesnt make it a tunneling perk anymore than any other perk.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968510#Comment_3968510
So, here are just some of the things you can do simply by reading pixels, exactly as OP is doing:
- Read the name of the map on load-in, and overlay a static minimap image in the corner of the layout with clock numbers (or really any map-specific image you like).
- Read every buff or debuff in the corner of your screen, as well as read every hex or notification popup on the side. Between these two alone, it could also overlay a real-time killer build so you can track exactly what the killer is running.
- Read and maintain a record of every gen's last known progress on the map, even if you don't know the location.
- Read every perk and item on your character and give exact cooldowns/charges remaining. This could trivially track which survivors still have Pain Res charges to use and just show you that info.
- Give an exact timer for the EGC.
- Give a countdown for opening the gate based on the progress bar.
- Read every BP event and give a real-time estimate for the match.
You also have the added problem that, presumably, this also tracks StB, since it would have to follow the hook and understand that hook stage was transferred to another survivor. The only way to do that is by also tracking the audio, and knowing not only that a survivor screamed, but which one by hearing their voice. If you add audio to the mix, you can also easily:
- Track killer cooldowns as survivor by listening for the M2.
- Not only track cooldowns, but identify the add-ons used in a pretty big number of cases. (You could, for example, have an overlay that starts counting down the instant you reveal Ghostie that tells you when his shroud is back up).
- With both audio and pixels, the system can narrow down the exact killer and just show you their picture within the first 30 or so seconds of the match.
- Get a much wider range of confirmed perks and addons to display. No guessing "was that brutal?" The "mod" can just detect that the animation was exactly fast enough for that addon.
I'm also going to point out that, while you seem to be basing your argument on the technical functionality here, I'm objecting from a principle standpoint. Especially if someone were to spend the time to train an LLM on the limited number of things in this game, there's almost nothing you can't do with just "reading pixels".
I'm opposed to it on principle: these are all things you as the player can do, and should be expected to do. Can you keep track of the hook stages on a piece of paper? Absolutely, and it comes at the cost of turning away from the keyboard to mark it down. Can you track these cooldowns roughly in your head? Absolutely, this is called game sense. We shouldn't be pushing to offload things like game sense and game knowledge onto a 3rd party program to keep track of for us.
This game is already not as complicated as people make it out to be sometimes, but rather than stepping up and learning, growing, or improving, we shouldn't be encouraging people to just give up and install software that does it for us. If the game is going to boil down to "who has the better 3rd party software installed", well… the same thing can be said of literal cheats or hacks.
For alot of these examples you COULD technically do it... although I dont really see how they'd be problematic if its just using the information the game is already showing you. You knowing the killer is running a perk after the perk icon pops up on your screen as a part of the normal UI is pretty normal. Perks that the UI DOESNT show such as Whispers would continue to be unknown.
The map thing KINDA would work... if the maps have no variation. The maps DO have variation though, whether that be map shape, window spawn, pallet spawn, gen location or specific tiles. As for the gen progress thing, that wouldn't be possible. If you dont know their location, how would a program that functions based off what you see know it?
This kinda of simplistic program is also looking at a specific part of your screen looking for a specific color. Its not searching the whole screen looking for a gen and figuring out progress by watching the pistons or anything.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968228#Comment_3968228
when using this perk, it's easy to get Twins brain and leave the rescuer to tap the unhook for efficiency/value, but then one thing leads to another...oops.
hooking in the rpd basement or suffocation pit basement is nearly impossible to save from
If you use that argument, just about every perk that triggers from a down is a tunneling perk.
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@Valuetown said:
This is most likely against the EULA, and backed up by the in game report system. This is a 3rd party tool used to gain an advantage. Yes keeping track of these in an automated way is an advantage.
Think of it this way: if consoles can't do it, it's against the EULA.
Thats kinda of a bad rule of thumb since consoles can't do ALOT of stuff thats deemed fair game. Until this update hits on the 29th, I can't use a mouse.Using a mouse and keyboard on this game isn't seen as against the EULA.
All this program seems to be doing is paying attention to the UI rather than showing anything that was meant to be hidden.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968600#Comment_3968600
I don't even say you shouldn't do this or something, I wouldn't but you do you. Thing is that the question was if it's allowed regarding EULA, and I'm pretty sure it's not because it's a thirdparty programm that's not whitelisted, and it obviously does change the flow of the game.
They arnt going to add something to a list thats not interacting with game files at all. You have a program running parallel to the game. Its kind of like how Spotify isn't going to be added to a list, even though people could play music while gaming.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968533#Comment_3968533
Very much agreed i pushed for this in mine as well. Wraith having 3 shadowdance 3 windstorm 2 swift hunts. Or doctor having his 3 with cooldown,tr adjustment, and shock delay just in different %s is very bad. Its better if the effect is fair enough to be put somehow into the basekit then just make the adjustment addon a lower percentage and make it 1 each. So wraith would have 1 windstorm 1 swift hunt and 1 shadowdance. Then more interesting addons can come in.
Its been a balancing nightmare forever. Alot of the strongest addon combos in DBD history were due to stacking effects. Machine gun huntress, instasaw Billy and forever freddy all had this. Then in order to balancethings incase ppl use them together... they just nerf the addon values.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968522#Comment_3968522
The ability to enforce it doesn't change if it's allowed officially right now or not, but it can manipulate/change it yes.
They also weren't able to enforce the law against wheat in germany consistently, but it still wasn't legal. The inconsistency to enforce it surely was part of the reason it's now legal for the most part, but it wasn't the entire reason it is now. Just as example. (Don't ask me details about that please, I'm not too far in it, but it should do the job as example xD)
We can discuss the morality of something all day, but if it can't be DETECTED, it doesnt really matter. Thats why you can't police THOUGHTS for example. Someone can THINK their plans on a murder all day, but unless they write it down, verbalize it, or in some way make it detectable to others... there's 0 chance of anything happening. No investigation would find a thought.
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Kinda hoping they do to killer addons like they are doing to survivor addons. We dont need a killer to have 3 different addons that do the same thing, just by different degrees. I'd rather have 1 "increased range by X amount" and the other 2 to be something else thats ALSO beneficial. This not only helps prevent stacking effects turning something OP, but also just makes sense from a balance perspective. You can't say a power charging 8% faster with a green addon is the ideal balance, while saying its ALSO the ideal balance of it charging 12% faster with a blue addon.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968501#Comment_3968501
Still true, still doesn't change if it's allowed or not.
It kinda does... In order for a rule or law to have any weight, it has to be enforceable. If you can't detect a rule being broken, you can't enforce it.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm gonna say a hard no.
Third party software is pretty closely monitored, and needs to be whitelisted. Just because it's hard to detect or police doesn't mean you should try to use it anyway.
I've been opposed to showing the killer hook stages in the past and this goes way beyond that. This is basically a replacement for game sense and game knowledge in general.
I don't honestly think that is that difficult for people to remember hook stages, or who was recently hooked. This isn't that fast paced of a game, and it's completely feasible to keep track of things like that.
People are not going to learn, and get better if they just have a tool that does it for them.
But putting up timers? That's way too far.
The fact that this reads pixels means you could do nearly anything. It could keep track of each players loadout for you. It could generate a live mini map of the randomly generated tiles and show you which totems and gen spawns you got.
It could reveal the auras of gens you've passed by, and show you roughly what percentage they're at. For survivors you could literally read the exact percentage, which is basically adding several perks to your character simply by adding the "mod".
You could also, in theory, give yourself windows or just have it draw out the path you should take to loop a given tile. You could do nearly anything with "reading pixels" and "sampling audio", because that's automating the same inputs the player receives.
So no. If you don't have the game sense or game knowledge to do this by yourself, vanilla, then you should learn it. Not just install something that allows you to bypass it and never have to be bothered to learn it.
I think your giving way too much credit to "reading pixels". All the things your talking about would require a program to have context and recognize things like windows. This program is just staring at a specific spot on the screen each map and reading if that spot turns red. Its got the computational complexity of a light switch. You can't make a mini map or everything else you said with that. Even things that show visual cues on a survivor model wouldn't be able to be tracked with this since it could happen anywhere on the screen.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968433#Comment_3968433
There's still a difference between if it's detected or allowed. I agree it probably wouldn't matter, but the question op ask was if it's allowed within the EULA - and I'd assume it's not still.
In order to disallow something, you have to be able to detect it. If BHVR announces a policy TODAY saying they dont allow tape on your monitor while playing Huntress... it doesnt really matter. It wouldn't affect anything. The only person who would be able to tell if the tape is there are ppl in your house.
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@UndeddJester said:
I'm very curious to know if these changes will manage to hit the high tiers, or if they'll remain largely unaffected, the main comcern is, do low tiers eat another shot to the teeth?
Though given the AFC and the anti 3-gen changes, and the anti Go Next and anti perma hide mechanics are as they are, I feel like they'll likely be reasonably well measured and restrained.
I don’t really see much point of getting hyped/panicked until we know exactly what to expect when the changes are announced.
Considering they did internal testing on the anti-slug and were able to say "hey look, we dont feel like this is in a good enough state to release it", im hopeful. You dont want things that are labeled as "anti-tunnel" or whatever affect the game as a whole so much that its affecting games where no tunneling was being done. It shouldn't birth new strategies.
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@not_Queef said:
I don't see how this is any different to using a reticule overlay for ranged killers like Huntress or Deathslinger, which many streamer including BHVR endorsed "creators" use.
You probably won't get an official yay or nay for this, just the usual use at your own risk (aka. we have no idea if EAC will flag it).
Now that they are introducing some form of basekit anti-tunnel, I hope they add individual hook counters for killers. It feels bad to kill someone early after not realising their dumbass teammates let them go second stage.
Theres been so many games during this event where I WANT to 2 hook ppl because they were cool enough to bring cakes... but it gets so hectic because there's 2 Kates or something and I lose count. End up letting 3 ppl live with the 4th wondering what they did to piss me off.
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How does this interact when ppl are left on hook to hit stage 2 or when shoulder the burden is in play?
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@KatsuhxP said:
As far as I know only whitelisted thirdparty-programms are allowed, so it's probably illegal as long as you don't get them to whitelist it xD
If its not interacting with game files, its not going to be picked up on. Thats like being worried youll get banned because you put a piece of tape on your screen to act as a crosshair.
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@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968228#Comment_3968228
20% Hinder on downs for 10 seconds? Does that not make it wildly easy for the killer to tunnel and slug.
It would make it easy to hit multiple survivors if they're near each other, but it has 0 value for tunneling.
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@Tenac said:
Here are the top 5 killers I would love to see in the game and please let me know yours.
- The Wolfman (2010) Since the game is produced by universal I'm surprised they haven't had the classic monsters yet. I do think the 2010 wolfman would fit the esthetic perfectly. He could have an all fours running ability to help chase the survivors.
- Pennywise. I mean he is just a terrifying creature and owkrs well with the violent nature of the game.
- The creeper (jeepers creepers). I know others have commented on this one and yeah there is controversy but I still think he would be awesome. You could turn his layer into a really creepy map as well.
- Jack (Halloween Horror Nights) Again the universal license has so much potential. With HHN coming up it would be an awesome Halloween crossover.
- Trantor the troll (Ernest Scared Stupid) Ok this one is an absolute pipe dream but he was my childhood boogeyman and I've always wanted a game with him.
Where'd you see that the game was produced by universal?
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@HaliAndEx said:
I've always found forced hesi to be an issue. It promotes a playstyle the devs are actively trying to mitigate; even if reducing tunneling wasn't one of the devs' priority the perk is still unhealthy even if it doesn't see much usage.
What's it have to do with tunneling?
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Its not actually working with the killer unless the survivors are doing something like showing the killer your location or body blocking you so the killer can hit you. Its not against the rules for the killer to show mercy to your teammates.
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This has been happening. There was another thread on here with screenshots. Devs on THAT thread said they'd look into it because its not suppose to be like that.
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@Marc_123 said:
Yes, yesterday.
But the more the better. I think codes drown a bit here and not everybody sees them.
Im on here quite abit and didnt see it. Only reason I saw it was because it popped up as a YouTube short.
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If your accounts are linked, you can't have it open on 2 devices at once.
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That would be nice. It feels so random currently since its impossible to keep track of the time.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967825#Comment_3967825
Someone isnt quite telling the truth then.
Either the epidemic isn't that bad or it is. Pick one.
Either a significant portion of your games are being affected or there's not actually that many people quitting.
If I said 5% of players are likely to ragequit, that would effect 1 out of every 4 games. Thats a large amount of matches being affected by a decently small amount of the playerbase.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967805#Comment_3967805
It's not balanced around opinions, it's balanced around kill rates, which the devs have forcibly increased so that killers win more than they lose by design, with some killers having outrageously high kill rates. They don't make blind changes, they heavily buff killers on purpose to sell licensed killer DLC, which is the only reason a PvP so fundamentally broken can survive this long.
I feel like your missing afew details because your hyperfocusing on the killer characters themselves. The various perks in this game on both sides have a tendency affecting the various killers unevenly. A survivor perk might be really strong against against one killer but really weak against another. Dramatuergy for example kinda sucks against Plague while being pretty strong against Bubba. The same is true for killer perks. Perks that are kinda meh on most killers can be cracked out on others.
Quick example here...
Before Bubba got his rework... he was like embarrassingly weak and only good for camping. Then Oni got released and his perk Nemesis created an AMAZING combo on Bubba.
https://youtu.be/XJfYRRREooc?si=SbVk3ApwcX7gh7ANSo... what do you really do here? Do you nerf Bubba because his average killrate went up for ppl who used this? That kinda screws over anyone NOT using these perks on an already weak killer. Do you nerf the perks that are mediocre on most of the killers?
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967788#Comment_3967788
True, but a lot these changes have only emphasized those issues. They went from annoying, but manageable to glaring in only the course of a few years. A lot of mechanics are overdue for a change.
That's not entirely incorrect. When the pressure is on the entire Survivor team, individual Survivors do have more time to accomplish their goals. Which again, the game does expect you to accomplish. Currently the pressure is more focused on individual Survivors, with Killer forcing the trial into a 1v3 as quickly as possible and then picking off the rest with ease or forcing an early abandon via slugging. Addressing that does naturally put more pressure on the Killer, but that's the nature of the role. The more wiggle room the Killer has, the more punishing Survivor becomes.
There's two major ways to go about solving this: go back to the formula where Killer has less room for mistakes and Survivor has more (hopefully meeting somewhere in the middle), or keep Killer in the same place they're in now and give Survivor more comebacks and self-defense. Because currently, Survivor consists of a lot of high risk, no reward play. With the go next penalty, all we've accomplished is forcing Survivors to stick around in mostly hopeless situations where they are still likely to give up, just not in the same way they used to. If those hopeless situations could turn around, either by giving more to do or more chances to turn the trial around (both offering more of what Survivors ultimately want and are sorely lacking—gameplay), we'd naturally see a decrease in going next. Hopefully.
The elephant in the room is that MMR has made winning much more important than having fun, so there's the chance that even making Survivor much more bearable to play would not please enough people unless they won A LOT more often. But I'd like to see how making the role better would affect things before shooting it down based on hypotheticals.
MMR in general is kind of an unsolvable mess in this game due to SWFs. Im not trying to say they're OP and bully me or anything, just that any other game that has a system for pre-made squads generally require that your MMRs are close so a grandmaster doesnt team up with a bronze rank. DBD though has no plans to put any such requirements on which of your friends you can play with.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967799#Comment_3967799
Okay, DBD is definitely more challenging to balance due to the asymmetrical design, but not impossible. However, killer mains have coopted this "asymmetry" term to mean something completely different than its original meaning. The game was asymmetrical since 2016 even when survivors purportedly had the advantage. Why is that? Because "asymmetrical" always referred to the difference between killer role and survivor role. The 1 to 4 dynamic and the fact that one side's job is to kill, and the other side's job is to escape. That "asymmetry" did not refer to the game being made easy to play for killer, yet now that is how it is being used.
The devs can make the game far better balanced with some basic common sense. They've mainly given survivors band-aid fixes for an arterial bleed. It doesn't matter if survivors have a pretty UI if the kill rates are forcibly increased to well over 50% after the fact. They could just reduce the average kill rates to 50% for the strongest killers like Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Kaneki, etc. If any of the so-called "weak" killers (which according to the latest official data, all have over 50% kill rates, by the way) fall below a 50% kill rate, then give them a little buff to bring them in line with the stronger killers. It's really that easy. But instead the devs have this silly philosophy that killer role ought to be way stronger than survivor role by design. This has led to the go-next epidemic which has simply received more band-aid "fixes", as well as more killer buffs, that fails to address the real elephant in the room: killer role is easy mode.
Just laying this out there, I didnt mean asymmetrical means power role or whatever else... I meant you dont have a case where both sides have the same stuff. This means when you have a really strong item being introduced, it DOESNT effect both side equally.
Every item in this game is attempting to be balanced around opinions. You'll have ppl claiming something needs a nerf while another person saying the same thing needs a buff. All BHVR can really do is what they HAVE been doing, which is applying tweaks and seeing how it plays out. Thats the best they can do about balancing.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967792#Comment_3967792
Yes, there are increasingly long DC penalties for each consecutive DC. But, I am not opposed to having a DC penalty in DBD. I am opposed to the devs solely focusing on punishments like DC and making them more and more severe without addressing the player experience, which in solo Q survivor is quite abysmal. I've gone next in DBD for more often than I "go next" in Rocket League or CS2 and it's because the latter games have far better balancing and a far more accurate MMR system. DBD has too many situations which feel like complete BS for the survivor. Even the net code is designed in killer's favor, such that the worse their connection, the more likely they are to hit you, such that many killers intentionally use VPN to abuse this advantage.
Thats kinda of the deal with asymmetrical games. With CS2, both sides have access to the same stuff. Even if they make a great sniper and a crap shotgun... that might determine META, but its still considered balanced. Same goes for Rocket League. If they made the cars boost twice as much TOMORROW, it affects both teams so its still balanced.
DBD can't really do that. They can tweak perks, killers, maps ect to try to figure out some kind of balance, but there's going to be room for opinion on everything. As for addressing soloQ stuff... they HAVE been doing that. They introduced stuff into the game like the UI changes specifically to aid SoloQ. They saw knock out essentially only effected SoloQ so they changed its effect. Let's not pretend like BHVR hasn't thought of addressing ANY pain points in 9 years.
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@jedimaster505 said:
Punishing players is like trying to prohibit alcohol. An alcoholic will find alternative ways to access the drug. You have to address the underlying reason for the addiction. Alcoholics are trying to escape emotional pain which is related to the culture in which they live.
So why do players rage quit? They're trying to escape a game that isn't worth the candle. They're effectively committing suicide within the context of the video game. The devs have to address the player experience. You can't just punish survivors more and more severely for quitting the game. They'll just leave for good and the game will die. Or worse, you'll see an increase in the number of cheaters who are retaliating because the game they once loved actively punishes them for playing.
The player experience is largely a matter of game design. Do I see rage quitters in Rocket League, CS2? Absolutely. But the overall percentage of rage quitters there is far, far lower. When I switch to these games, I immediately notice a couple things. The first, is that these games are fairly balanced, unlike DBD. That is, you are rewarded in direct proportion to your skill level. If you invest a lot of time to hone your skills, you will see results and you will win more often until you rank up and face more skillful opponents.
Survivor in Dead by Daylight is the exact opposite, you can practice for thousands of hours, and barely see a difference in the outcome because of how the game is structured to inherently favor killer role. Killer is designed to win by default, so survivor skill expression has been trampled. Meanwhile, you can invest a measly 20 hours into even "weak" killers and dominate survivor teams with thousands of hours experience per member. I know this is true because I've done it. I look at the survivors' profiles after absolutely steamrolling them, and these are seasoned vets I'm demolishing with sloppy mechanical skill as killer, just by abusing low skill cheese tactics like tunneling, camping and slugging. Meanwhile in Solo Q, make one small mistake and the entire match can easily be lost not only for you, but the whole team. So the challenge to reward ratio is very lopsided due to incompetent balancing choices, which is why Solo Q is so commonly described as "miserable" to play.
The second thing I notice about Rocket League and CS2, is that these games have a functional MMR system. Yes there are smurfs and cheaters, that is an issue, but in general, if you play skillfully and win more matches, you rank up and face better opponents. Your MMR is a fairly accurate representation of your skill level in these games. With DBD, this is not the case. In Solo Q, you can play like a pro and still have terrible outcomes because the killer found the 1 weak survivor and tunneled them out quickly, turning the match into a 3v1. Killers with any game sense whatsoever know to save the best survivors for last, turning it essentially into a 1v1 where the killer has 4 times more power by game design. You can be the star player in so many matches yet the outcome is a 4K, and the MMR system says "you suck, we're lowering your MMR".
So two things are needed to restore the player experience. The first is to heavily nerf the entire killer role, namely by making low skill cheese tactics like tunneling, camping and slugging less effective. Every single killer character should get no more than a 50% average kill rate across the entire player base. The game should not be balanced around a small percentile of high MMR 4 stack SWF teams that are essentially cheating using 3rd party apps. There needs to be a middle ground between Solo Q and SWF when it comes to balance, whereas currently the devs balance only around the strongest SWF teams.
Secondly, the MMR needs to measure player skill accurately, particularly when it comes to survivor. Escaping can't be the only metric that measures skill when a killer can easily save the strongest players for last, in which case their chances of escape are abysmal no matter how well they play. This makes solo Q a low MMR trap. As killer, your MMR should only increase if you play skillfully, and goes down if you play poorly. Currently, you can play poorly as killer and still inflate your MMR because you cheesed out a bunch of 4K's with blatantly OP mechanics.
BHVR has the chance to bring back a quality player experience with the upcoming changes that are to address camping, slugging and tunneling and the MMR system. Whether this succeeds or not has yet to be seen. If they do it right, yes, this means many killers will temporarily lose more matches as their inflated MMR decreases to accurately reflect their skill level. But these killers will have a better experience in the long run because the survivors they go against won't be God squads. Only the best killers will face the God squads, but they'll be ready for the challenge. The Silver killers will face Silver survivor teams, and the Global Elite killers will face the Global Elite survivor teams. The vast majority of experienced killers are not even close to being Global Elites, even if in their imagination they believe this to be the case since the killer role has been pampered by the devs.
Don't those 2 games you mentioned ALSO have a DC penalty? I just looked it upand saw CS2 will give you a 30 minute penalty after the very first DC. I think if anything, THAT might be why you arnt seeing it happen. Unlike DBD which was pretty tame in the punishments for the longest time, CS2 hits DCers hard.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967776#Comment_3967776
The increased pressure of the trial. Again, anecdotal, but there was always a lull period during the trial in the past where Survivors could feasibly run a totem build and clear them all without a heavily elevated risk of losing. That was a thing all the way up to 6.1.0 (though less so the year before when MMR was introduced). BHVR has implemented new features to make totems and chests more attractive, but not a whole lot to allow players to interact with them enough to not risk a 4k.
That's just scoring events as well. If we're talking autonomy as a whole, there's the amount of time you spend doing nothing while slugged or on hook (with anti-go next removing even more interactions from hook), the lack of comeback mechanics, very little presence during endgame, etc.
The amount of stuff that you can do while slugged never really changed. As for the removal of self unhook without SOME build around it... that was mostly ever used to ragequit. If you want to do that, the DC button hasn't moved. Thats kinda like how hook grabs were removed for the overall health of the game.
I dont mean to put words in your mouth, but the entire first part talking about lull periods just comes across as "before I can just kinda screw around and take my time doing anything and I'd still win, but now the killer is pressuring me too much". I know thats not what you SAID, but thats how it reads. It really shouldn't be a case where one side is giving it their all right away while the other side is just meandering and still thinks they should win.
By all means, you can still open chests and all that... just dont explore the whole map opening every chest before thinking about your objective.
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Im confused... who at BHVR is saying you arnt allowed to open chests? T
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967763#Comment_3967763
Survivor scoring events include elements that are considered throwing these days like opening chests and breaking totems. Either they need enough freedom to do things like that or those objectives should be axed.