LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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This all sounds like an issue with slugging for 4ks, not with the mori system…
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@Lixadonna said:
It's funny how the new Survivor Perks make you jump through loops to get subpar value meanwhile the newest Killer Perk giving value just for having LoS on Survivor.
One stuns the Killer for hitting through a window. One gives the whole team Endurance for stunning the Killer with a pallet. Both can combo. One of the perks lets you rebuild up to 12 pallets a round if everyone is running it in a team.
Perks that reset resources or are able to halt hits/prevent hits need to have a few hoops to jump through. Killer has them too, for example Grim Embrace and Pain Res BOTH require you to spread hooks to get full value of. Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, and Help Wanted all require kicking a gen AND for the Survs to touch that gen.Perks that offer some kinda strong or useful effect that COULD create game changing situations, need to have conditions. Nothing is free.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964071#Comment_3964071
Wraith gets a lot more haste than that. According to the wiki he is 150% when cloaked, so I don‘t see a problem with giving ghost face a little haste in power.
It's been a while since I played Wraith, I thought he was only 117% in cloak not 150%. You sure that's not just in 2v8?
I guess if that's true though 5% more on Ghostface for a total of 120% speed Cloaked/105% speed cloaked and crouching would be fine.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964558#Comment_3964558
Nobody is playing this game because they like to do gens
Actually, friend, I am!
I don't like chases, they have always been the least fun part of DBD in my experience. As survivor, I enjoy being the gen jockey, the one who will do the objective. The thrill comes from hiding and evading the killer.
And, as killer, I've always preferred map control over chase-oriented characters.
Correction accounting for this - MOST OF THE COMMUNITY says they are not playing the game because they enjoy gens, but because they enjoy chase. There's certainly exceptions. :)
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@LokiiEU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964558#Comment_3964558
Every action, every move you do is intended to stop survivors from doing gens. Game would end even quicker if survivors never had to worry about gen perks
Did you miss the part where I said we should also remove Survivor gen perks?
I'm not interested in an argument. Killers' goal is not gens, Survivors' goal is not to rush them so fast the round ends in five minutes. That's the truth. You're free to accept that or not.
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@LokiiEU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963737#Comment_3963737
It's literally the objective. Imagine how boring the game would be if every perk was either a chase/2nd chance or information perk
The Killer's objective isn't gens. The Survivor's objective is not to end the game in five minutes.
If every perk were a chase, 2nd chance, or info perk? DBD wouldn't be boring. It would unironically be a much, much better game. The community as a whole has proven it because every single survey, time and again, when asked what the most important aspect of DBD is, know what they say?
Chase. They say it's chase.Chase is the most important part of DBD because it's the fun part. Not gens. Nobody is playing this game because they like to do gens really fast or hold gens for 45 minutes (except that one Skurchent).
Gen perks are badly designed. BOTH sides. So are gen items. Ideally NOBODY should be able to hold, block, or increase regression/progression of gens beyond basekit. But that's not the game we're in, unfortunately.
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@CakeIsTheRoad said:
@LockerLurk 3% may be the right amount. As someone who can't hack into BHVRs account to test it, I have no clue. I just assumed having the 10% in the 2v8 might be okay since there's half as many survivors in 1v4. It seems like a decent starting point and the only math I could do that has some logical support.
Well here's the thing. Ghostface Exposes Survs and has the best stealth, bar none, in the game on demand. If we give him 5% haste on top, he's Wraith that can Expose but better. Wraith gets 3% in cloak. I am all for making Ghostface a slightly better Wraith in the sense of giving him haste, since he's got more mechanics to worry about. I just don't think he should be faster than Wraith.
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964055#Comment_3964055
instead of ending it on the hook they just dc, and now i have to deal with a pre dropping pallet bot, and the survivors have to deal with headless chicken of a bot, its very fun for both sides
"I think we've done a pretty good job so far."
We DESPERATELY need stricter anti-go next. Desperately.
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THXFace: The Killer is now Deaf.
But yes. This has been an ongoing issue and I think it's related to the Reveal being unglitched. On the plus side Reveal feels consistent now. On the downside you get Scream brought to you by THX. -
People are seriously still DCing when they get Killers they don't like even with the anti go next?
Seriously? -
@francesinhalover said:
Would BE awfull for surv. You cant even reach gate if someone else opened, it should BE after x mins if killer doesnt have people hooked. Imagine you do a unhook play and killer insta leaves
If it's awful for the kind of Survivors that make Killer players want this feature, good. I don't want people who want to make others miserable, either side, to get any satisfaction from being sore winners. Nobody should have to deal with that.
I am all for adding an option that allows Killers to choose to leave games that feel like a clear decisive loss, I wanna get on with my next round as Killer, too. Once we have Killer Bots in play the Devs will probably add this feature anyway.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963852#Comment_3963852
Ok I might be missing something, how does lavarier microphone help with that, doesnt it make the doors open for all lockers once he arrives?
Yes. If all lockers open, Survivors not know where Dredge come from. :)
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I would like to see pips decoupled from points for progression purposes. That's my one wish.
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@OrangeBear said:
More cakes is good but the event game mode is bad. Killer queues are no exaggeration double the duration of normal, and it's just frustrating as survivor, so no good reason to play other than the quests.
This is true, they're so long you're only ever going to get either the babiest babies or sweatiest SWFs for Survivors. It's not very fun when that happens. :(
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I like Ritual Pack. Pomesa's Ghost Face Pack is also very lowkey and I think adds a cool effect to character portraits. There's Just Black as well.
I use a mix of Ritual and the GF pack. :)
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@Jwolf24x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947855#Comment_3947855
never thought about what it be like as a new killer. I didn’t have a console years ago and found dbd mobile when there was mostly only original killers as well Bubba & Pig. I cannot imagine joining with this many killers especially facing a Springtrap as a new player 😭. When you’re trying to learn the game and that. I’d probably hide the whole match back when I didn’t know that was bad 😭
That's the issue. Nobody thinks about the New Killer Player experience. Only New Survivors.
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I think Springtrap needs something similar to Dredge in that Security Doors near hooked Survs are Entity-blocked. Otherwise he's a tunnel king and it's not fair at all - Huntress with a teleport basically. Do that and I genuinely have zero issue with this Killer.
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Listen for the doors and he's not, but his footsteps are softer yes. I don't think it's as bad as the Were-Elk skin was though.
If Survivors can have different footstep levels and be harder to trace, and someone like Ghostface can get an advantage from darker cosmetics, is Glitchtrap that big a deal because his feets are soft?
He has the additional benefit of creeping the absolute #### outta LockerLurks, too. ;~;
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@Destaice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963083#Comment_3963083
You're describing the process of learning as if it's a counter argument. "Cracking the enigma code isn't difficult once you learn how to do it."
Nurse is objectively the hardest killer to play because she does not play by the same rules of every other character in the game.
A player taking the time and effort to master her mechanics does not magically make her an easy killer.
See this is the issue with longterm players not understanding newer players. Nurse requires a lot of game sense, patience, and good reflexes, she is not an easy to pick up and play Killer. Compare her to someone like say, Blight, who is more mechanically simple to understand, or Kaneki who is simpler still.
And difficulty to learn also has nothing to do with strength. Ghostface is easy to learn but harder to do well with consistently. Spirit is easy to learn and master but strong. Trapper takes lots of game sense but he's hard to win consistently with. Singularity is very hard to learn and master but once you learn him, he's not getting much more value than any other high tier Killer.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963798#Comment_3963798
Micro in DBD means your individual chase performance, Macro is your overall strategy for the match
Most Killers are designed to care pretty much entirely around how well they do in Chase, I.e, they’re reliant on Micro. Whereas a Killer like Trapper or Hag have to consider where they’re going to set up their power to get value, I.E, Macro.
Plague is almost entirely dependant on Micro, her power has some use outside of chases but ultimately you either vomit on someone until they’re Broken or they cleanse and give you a power that can do actual damage, there’s minimal Macro and what Macro there is is pretty passive and entirely in the hands of Survivors being dumb and doing the one thing they should never do against a Plague.
As for Myers, he is entirely Micro, his power is dedicated to nothing but making his chases quicker through Exposed, the only reason he wasn’t in Micro Heavy is because you have to sometimes consider when to Stalk and who you’re Stalking instead of just stalking the first person you see every chance you get
I'd argue both stalkers, and some Stealth Killers, are more 50/50 or macro leaning than Micro. Ghostface for example ideally wants to get fast downs without chasing and ambush people before a chase starts, he needs to set up for that. Myers' goal is to build his power quickly and strategically and then finish a chase as fast as possible. Pig is more about slowing players down. I don't think those three are Micro-leaning. If you're playing them as micro, AKA chase based Killers, you're not playing them correctly at all and that's probably why people lose with them and then call them weak - because they are not chase Killers and you shouldn't play them just as chase Killers.
Chucky is Micro leaning, someone like Wraith is definitely Micro leaning. Springtrap is a 50/50 and Sadako 100% is Macro based with some light chase. But I think specifically Ghostie, Myers, and Pig aren't as micro as you think.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
Most "win more" perks for survivors, most "second chance" perks for killers.
Killers have second chance perks? Or do you mean that from the Killer POV, second chance perks are badly designed?
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@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963902#Comment_3963902
It's an asymmetric game; killer is supposed to be the power role.
As I said in that post, there are also specific builds that require certain maps to work, such as Scratched Mirror Myers.
But let me be more clear… I'm in favor of leaving it the way it is now. 20% chance is fine. All I'm saying is that, if they wanted to change it further, turning it into a better game of cat and mouse where the killer can choose one map but four survivors have the opportunity to block it would be a lot more fair than the old system used to be.
If we want Scratched Mirror Myers back, we have to demand the Devs add more indoor maps. Not buff Map Offerings. Map Offerings tilted the game too much, it wasn't fair, I'm glad they were nerfed - and I used to like to run around playing Ghostface of the Lerys when you could.
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There's nothing wrong with perks stacking with a Killer's power as long as it doesn't create some super unhealthy meta or something.
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Absolutely not, I don't want to have a 50% chance to go to Haddonfield against any Killer or a 50% chance to go to Eyrie against a SWF. The nerfs were needed, fair, and fix the balance of the game.
Next time maybe the players of the game won't abuse something to tilt the game in their favor, and then stuff won't get hard nerfed like this.
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@Amanova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963185#Comment_3963185
True, killer players are ruthless in mid-high mmr, all of them very sweaty and super campy with giga strong builds like money on the line, they can't just chill especially in new event mode, and they are already complaining about new Franklins, Michonnes perks and upcoming changes to Clown/Knight, only killers can bring broken addons but survivers can't use items thanks to franklins? Sounds unfair😭
To be fair Survivor teams at that level play the same very sweaty, very gen-pushy way too. They can't "just chill" either. Everyone at that level sweats.
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@MDRSan said:
Speaking in general terms, buff + nerf combo changes are sometimes necessary because adjusting one aspect of a killer has unintended consequences to other mechanics. You have to look at buffs and nerfs as they relate to a killer’s entire kit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that tier lists aren’t data - they’re opinions. For example, in my experience I can get 3-4Ks with Singularity, Dredge, and Unknown with much less finicky controls and effort than Nurse or Blight. If I were to make a personal tier list, Nurse and Blight would not be S tier just because they might have similar results as other strong killers but they’re more of a pain to play so why would I rank them higher?
Thank you, thank you, thank you for that point about tierlists. Why are we using them to determine balance? They're theoretical, they mean nothing, they offer nothing and they needlessly poison opinions in this community on how "good" or "bad" Killers are.
How about we all just admit that every Killer is good enough in the right hands, can 4k in the right hands, is strong in the right hands, and has no real need to be Nurse or Blight levels of super strong? Maybe the top five on those tierlists aren't a goal to achieve, maybe they're a sign of what Killers shouldn't be, maybe we've all been lied to about what "viability" is by a small group of competitive players who want the $5 Subway card.
Maybe it's time to put tierlists and worrying too much about Killer strength and "viability" in the garbage, and instead refer to low, mid, and high tier Killers in terms of kit. No more of this "weak Killer strong Killer" stuff.
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@Lexilogo said:
In this specific instance, I agree that Pyramid Head getting such great buffs while Clown/Knight have gotten really bad changes sucks. Knight's Standard changes should either be reverted or completely rethought (IMO they should make 10s the new default standard spawn time for Jailer & Carnifex with Assassin keeping a 5s spawn) and Clown's changes should probably be brought back to the drawing board.
But, I disagree with the idea low/mid Killers should only be buffed and not recieve a buff/nerf bundle, for two reasons:
- Not every Killer patch needs to go in with the goal of moving a Killer up/down the tier list. Pyramid Head's seemingly well recieved rework is proof of that, because frankly it's just a fun patch. PH players who zone and tunnel are annoying to play against, so that playstyle is now worse. His addons used to suck, now they are much better. Pyramid Head didn't need a strength buff, but he did need fun, so he got it, I think that's a good thing.
- These specific nerfs made Knight and Clown both less fun to play, and that's the real issue. Knight's Standard changes are a travesty that disincentivise his interesting macro gameplay for dull zoning again. Clown's bottle changes mean instead of only using purple bottles being the low effort strategy, throwing a yellow bottle at the ground then M1ing like you ordered Wraith from Temu is the new low effort strategy, which is even less fun for both sides. There'd be little complaint if the compensation nerfs were slightly longer cooldowns or reloads, the issue is that the nerfs have damaged both of these Killers' playstyles and fun factor.
If Clown's yellow bottles were overbuffed to the point where he was super strong, this would have still been an awful patch for Clown. If Knight's #########-a-guard strategy was made so strong he's S-tier, this would have still been an awful patch for Knight. Mid/low tiers existing is fine, Killers getting their playstyles butchered is not
Well said, the issue is it makes these Killers unfun, not merely just weaker. And of course, a Killer doesn't need to be super strong to be fun. Lots of people like playing as and against Ghostface and Pig, neither are gonna win any trophies for strength. Many people enjoy playing as and against Springtrap, and he's mid tier.
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@Shinkiro said:
Its not too hard, follow the 2 rule. 2 gens, 2 totems, 2 unhooks, 2 heals, 2mins chase. Try to get as many of these as you can. You dont even need to escape to pip, even in Iri rank. I didn't even realise i got Iri on my survivor cuz it was so quick.
Killer can be alot harder once you get to Iri if you face good teams constantly.
The problem is you shouldn't need to follow any sort of formula to get pips just for playing the game. I think if you play the round to completion you ought to pip, win or lose. Decouple points from pipping entirely and just have points = how many BP you get.
I don't understand why BHVR insists on making pips coupled with the points events, especially when the idea is that Grade just shows how much you played. Why not reward people for playing period over time? Why not do this:
DC = No pip
Complete a round win or lose = 1 pip
Specifically 3k/Escape in any way = 2 pips -
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961983#Comment_3961983
Imagine the beautiful interface and user experience if input binding was relegated to the survivor selection tab(since they’re just skins anyways) and you can fully map out your actions.
And each killer had their own designated input binding tab upon selection you can save with the same break out but for their powers and basic killer actions.
It would be so nice and just make the game FEEL better.
Maybe then I could actually play Plague, she only seems to work for me if I play her a bit like a twinstick shooter on controller, controlling the cam and the vomit at the same time.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963788#Comment_3963788
Mass downvotes prevent topics from getting bumped. Its pretty annoying when actual conversation happens.
This is yet another reason why downvotes on these forums need to be hidden again.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963017#Comment_3963017
Expect if we but catch up mechanic it would benefit greatly more survivors. I win most games 3-4 gens left if I want. I don't tunnel or camp and usually let someone at least escape. Now if they put catch up mechanic maybe I get some challenge.
Most my survivors matches in soloQ go about same maybe we get few more gens as most killer players are not good.
That's great!
But none of that is relevant to the discussion at hand, and you could have stopped at the first sentence.You don't need to humblebrag about how good you are at the game.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963047#Comment_3963047
No maybe you or I got confused I am not refering to when dredge arrives at the locker. I am refering to when he is teleporting, like while dredge is in his demo like black fog screen while traveling to a locker you as a survivor can see if he is approaching to a specific locker. The handles and only the handles will vibrate, this way you can get up to 10 seconds of prerunning, that without even taking into account if you lock the locker.
That's what I mean too.
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Gen perks.
Both sides. -
The issue isn't medkits. It's toolboxes and gen perks. The issue has always been that and it's time to stop pretending.
Give Killers SOMETHING against this.
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@Lixadonna said:
Funny how you think Toolboxes should be subject to this and not Torches.
If you had read my response you'd know some of us do think flashlights should be subject to this, too. There's too many Flashlight addons and nobody uses them. There's too many addons in general, the bloodweb is cluttered for Survivor.
Also, OP didn't bring up flashlights because this isn't about flashlights. It's about toolboxes.
"I think pancakes are too sweet with too many toppings."
"WHAT ABOUT FRENCH TOAST!!!!?????"Lots of Killer players also play Survivor too, you know.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963047#Comment_3963047
Still very little use from that addon if the addon made all noices go away when dreadge teleports into locker(not when he exits) then it would be much better, problem is lockers offten spawn together making this addon with small chance it will do something, maybe in indoor maps when there are more lockers and walls to cover line of sight then it can be interesting addon.
But it doesn't have to if you cannot tell what locker it's coming from…
I stopped commenting to you too. Stop responding to me.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963197#Comment_3963197
Finally something we can agree on.
Funny thing is I was saying this from the PTB onward. People didn't believe me, I got mocked.
I'm a DBD oracle I swear.
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Toolboxes have addon and item overbloat which has led to too much bloodweb clutter, do you even use Clean Rag on your toolboxes? I don't. There's also too many toolbox variants, are you really using Alex's when you could just use Commodious? I don't want all these toolboxes I will never use, just the best ones, which as the best ones, should be hardest to find.
I would much rather see five separate toolboxes - one iri, one purple, one blue, one green, and one brown - and event ones only. Cap all toolboxes at 26 charges, use addons or a perk if you want more charges. Make the Commodious box as it is the iri one and do the best Repair speed, capped at 50% faster. Set Event toolboxes at 25% repair instead of 50%. Make the second best be the Purple repair box capped at 35% plus the buff from the purple sabo, then the other Blue one at 25% plus the sabo buff. Then Green, then brown with progressively smaller repair and sabo buffs.
Remove about half the addons and just basekit them. Make BNP use a charge on the Toolbox. Then make the best ones harder to get to prevent item overbloat. Perks should be the answer to Generator regression, not an item meta. This is the same that we just did for keys and the like.
I would argue flashlights need the same treatment too, we kinda have too many of those and nobody uses brown grips. You could collect the better items faster this way, without any of them being too harsh. -
Agreed, anyone who generally has no mobility needs it, and anyone who is struggling to get that 60% rate needs stronger buffs than mere tweaks. I want Survs to have strong perks and items, but it's not fair to weaker picks who many still love and play as if stuff meant to handle Nurses and Blights is being used against Dredges and Myers.
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Midtier Killer, anyone putting him higher than B tier is nuts, a gaming god, or both.
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I'm fine with the extension because I stopped caring about Chaos Shuffle when it became more about "how do I bring the strongest things to tilt it all in my favor?" sim. I'm waiting for 2v8 again.
I really want something new though…
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The problem is Deli would completely negate endgame pressure that way; if you're good enough to make it with no hooks to endgame you are good enough to not need Deli to save you.
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Killers share Killer offerings, Survs share Surv ones?
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Holy based bold post, Batman.
They likely won't. Funny idea though.
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Both sides have this issue, try to pip in Iri with an older Killer or weaker Killer. You're not going to tier up as say, Trapper or Ghostface, it's not possible with how they are designed.
The solution? Change how Killers that struggle to pip, can pip. Same with Survs.
How?
Make Pipping dead easy. -
I think Tombstone Piece is fair. I think Tombstone as a whole isn't, I'd just as soon rather it only work on second hook like a basekit Iri Mori.
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This perk is not the problem, what you should be more concerned about is No Way Out and even that is no issue.
Just 99 the gate. -
I think frankly the issue is that MMR is a bit too strict, and the fact is Survivors feel like they can't have fun in games. I don't see it, I do fine both sides, but as I understand it people feel Survivor has been hard nerfed (despite getting a pretty unneeded healing buff) but Killer has been hard buffed (when really Killers just got a bunch of much needed QoL.
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Please stop gatekeeping Killers with a high skill floor just because that skill floor was slightly lowered. We're not talking Oni flicks here, the autoaim and other changes are JUST for Controller peeps to help them. Let them have it.
If it's really an issue, I think the Devs should add a toggle for autoaim to be turned on and off. I also think they should have a toggle for iron sights mode for people who want it. Why not? Let's make more skillful Killers more accessible to everyone. :)
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That rats out Stealth players both sides, nerfing a whole playstyle. But if it doesn't effect these styles, I am OK with it. :)