Leonardo1ita
Leonardo1ita
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I really agree with this: "It's not the end of the world", but it's still a bad change.
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@I_CAME said:
This is a bigger change than people are giving it credit for now that we have anti face camp. I've had so many times where the anti face camp ALMOST triggered. That extra ten seconds will be massive considering it's for every hook stage. It will be huge if they ever add the anti camp meter to the HUD. The amount of extra time you can get on gens with this will also be a great overall buff for survivors.
Exactly. This is another big problem.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772368#Comment_3772368
it is as I said to @jesterkind, leaving the hook is a risk. apparently, i am playing killer wrong and should getting hit by all these second chance mechanics. while it is possible to outplay survivor multiple times, every chase is struggle if the entire team is really good.
If you leave the hook, you interrupt one survivor on gens to be in chase, and ideally have short chases (which is admittedly determined by skill). The rescuer will naturally stop doing gens to rescue, since, again, it's always in the survivors best interests to have a 4v1 have and not a 3v1 for as long as possible.
Pain res has been constantly getting negatives changes presumably to make killers use generator defence less. goals of making killer less dependency on generator defence. balancing out camping. It is just that there has been little improvement in improving killer's capacity to leave hooks and promoting search chases.The 2vs8 mode is closest mode where they started to showcase proper changes towards anti-camping, anti-tunneling and making the game more about chasing hooks.
If only some of those changes in 2vs8 shows up in real mode like their 200% regression bonus, killers putting survivors into cages, teleporting to cages, less information for killer to tunnel. While these changes still present issues for killers like Hag and maybe trapper, they're a step in the right direction.
This change on other hand where hook regression slower doesn't accomplish much other than punish the killer.
I agree with the first part, but I don't think copying 2v8 is the solution.
Apart from the extremely oppressive Escapist class, if there are 8 good players, you are screwed as killer. Before you can reach a kill, all 8 gens are done.
As killer, instead the strat is to injure everyone with Wraith, and slug everyone. Or just keep everyone injured. It's nuclear options on both sides.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771555#Comment_3771555
They DO have an incentive to leave hooks and not tunnel and camp. Its called pressuring survivors. Its really easy, you have 1 person on the hook, so you chase another survivor and now 3 people cannot waste time on gens.
For survivors to leave someone on hook for 70 seconds, without you already having hooked someone else, means that either a lot of pallets have been destroyed by you, aka easy downs next time a survivor goes there, or you have been royally outplayed.
This 10 extra seconds is additional pressure to leave the hook, because you literally cannot afford to stay in 1 place for 70 seconds.Let's suppose the killer just goes for chases. As you said, 1 survivor is doing gens.
What do they get for hooking all 4 survivors? Apart from perks? Nothing.
What do they get for hooking all of them again, with none dying? Nothing, no kills again.
How much time has passed? Supposing a chase is very short, like 45 seconds, that's 45*8, which is enough to complete all gens.
Btw, if with mid tier killers, in 1v1s good chases on average last 2 minutes, if not even more, there's a reason: either maps are unbalanced, or you have to buff mid tier killers in chase to make them A tier.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
It won't make tunnelling more needed because those who think that are most likely (with a few exceptions) to tunnel regardless the reason.
It's more of a QoL change which will give Survivors a tiny edge against any Killer prefering to hang around a hooked survivor instead of hunting. It's unlikely to make any huge difference, but it may make those who do camp think twice about what they want to do, without making it completely useless.
It will make tunneling more needed, because if you split pressure on 5/6 hook stages, before a survivor dies, that's 50/60 seconds more of survivors doing gens, before going last second for a save.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771869#Comment_3771869
Again, what you're describing there is incidental, not intentional. The devs wanted to weaken camping with the basekit Borrowed Time, and separately, wanted to incentivise chases by buffing all those numbers. This is observable, they say as much in the dev notes.
As to everything else, I think the issue here is that you're viewing gen perks as a necessity for spreading pressure, when the reality of the situation - at least after all the nerfs - is that it's the other way around. You need to be spreading pressure for gen defence perks to do all that much. If you aren't occupying multiple survivors at once and slowing down gen repair that way, the amount of extra time regression perks buy you isn't enough to overcome that, and it shouldn't be. The only exceptions to this concept are unbalanced cheese strategies like tunnelling and camping… hence those getting nerfed.
As an aside, you can win by going for aggressive chasing as long as you're actually good at it. So, that's short chases on top of knowing where survivors are and keeping them occupied. I'm not talking hypothetically here, either, I run very little slowdown and I don't camp or tunnel, but I win a respectable amount of my games. If I lose, it's almost always because I wasn't doing well enough in chase, not because you need to camp to overcome gen defence nerfs.
In general, I think a lot of killer players could do with remembering that gens are not their objective, survivors are. Spread your pressure across your objective, not your opponent's objective.
What killers do you play the most? Because with Skull Merchant, I absolutely believe you can win with no gens slowdown, considering how much survivors either give up completely, DC, let themselves die on hook, or stop playing seriously entirely.
As you said yourself, if survivors are the objective (what does this mean?¿?) , in order to kill them fast, there's no better way than killing a survivor ASAP to force the game into a 3v1. Aka tunneling.
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I don't think they wanted to make tunneling stronger intentionally.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771555#Comment_3771555
The incentive to leave hook is risking generators being popped and triggering the hooked survivor's built-in Deliverance.
I meant, staying 16 meters from the hooked survivor, just outside the anti camp mechanic radius.
Also, you can always go inside and outside the radius a bit if necessary.
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Ok. Let's suppose, the killer completely leaves the hook @AmpersandUnderscore .
Then, by macro macro pressure, let's also assume they need to go back to the hook, perhaps because the closest survivor pre ran to main building, or because they instantly saved just 20 seconds after the hook.
What happens if the killer, by macro strategy, in that situation is supposed to chase who was just unhooked? Oooops, they instahealed with Resurgence. Oooops they have Second Wind. Oooops they had Off The Record also because their teammate healed them. Oooops now they also have Decisive Strike. Oooops now they use a Syringe to heal mid chase and usually the killers can't do anything in those seconds. Oooops now they have Dead Hard.
But if the killer hits them immediately off the hook, they deny most of these things, most of these perks.
So the killer is forced to do this, because if they don't they get nothing.
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@Science_Guy said:
I don't know why killers mains would actually complain about this beyond a kneejerk reaction that every single change billed as pro-survivor must be a bad thing for them. I get why BHVR didn't make this change in 6.1, and I have mixed feelings about it now. Hook timers increases are good for discouraging camping, but it only punishes hard camping, and I think we're well past the point where good killers understand that letting the save happen and tunneling the survivor off hook is way faster, and safer, than camping for the whole hook state. So, I don't expect much of a change from this, at best it makes forcing struggle a little harder.
The anti facecamp mechanic would need to get adjusted, because now, with 70 seconds, you can self unhook so many more times if another teammate is near the hook before second stage.
In theory it should punish hard camping, in practice it doesn't. And it will make tunneling even stronger indirectly.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771836#Comment_3771836
I mean, in 6.1.0 they also labelled the basekit Borrowed Time as a nerf to tunnelling and camping, which signals pretty clearly that they wanted to make camping weaker.
They'd then go on to actually weaken camping by implementing the anti-facecamp meter, further signalling that the devs don't want people to be camping. The fact that the lengthened gen timers incidentally made camping slightly stronger was an oversight, not an intention.
The devs actively encourage chases to spread your pressure, which is incidentally the stronger way of playing anyway. Even if you think camping did get stronger, there's no basis at all for claiming the devs intentionally made it stronger specifically to compensate for a lack of slowdown perks.
I don't think they intentionally made it stronger.
But even them ( I suppose) know that hook stages cannot be super long.
So if they want to reward chases, this is not the way.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771820#Comment_3771820
chasing didn't do anything. the main key line in 6.1.0 was this line: "Many players feel like generators are powered too quickly without these perks, so we knew we needed to look at generators before making any perks changes. SLOWDOWN PERKS SHOULD BE AN OPTION, BUT NOT THE ONLY OPTION TO STAY COMPETITIVE."
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7DMN7V7WMZF4/image.png
So how did they do that to make slowdown an option but not only option to stay competitive. They buffed camping. that is how. a killer that cannot defend generators will camp more and by doing that, he'll slowdown the game by regressing hooks.
There is little bit of irony in last sentence because a killer that is relying less of passive slowdown mechanics is interacting less with survivor. I know last sentence suggests that you are suppose interact more but the effect is quite opposite. The less defence you bring, the less time you have as killer to interact with the survivor. This makes sense because the game ends faster.
Perfectly said: "The less defence you bring, the less time you have as killer to interact with the survivor".
The more they nerf passive slowdown perks, the more killers are forced to camp and tunnel. In fact, I'd make getting the fourth stack of pain res a massive bonus, like, regress 60% of a generator, considering how insanely hard it is to hook all 4 survivors if they know what they're doing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771786#Comment_3771786
Killers are doing good currently. There is no need to buff Slowdown-Perks.
That Forum User xXxKillerMain69xXx is not doing well does not mean that Killer as a whole is in a bad spot.
High tier and mid tier killers are not in a bad spot. (Not really true, medkits, toolboxes and perks are still broken, but whatever) IF you tunnel. Because if you don't tunnel, then you're screwed.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772250#Comment_3772250
I'm not even a fan of comp DbD, and I find that the comp scene creates a ton of issues in normal gameplay.
Have you ever seen comp DbD and watched a whole match? Cause all of the most common complaints from killers are there: hook bombing, gen rushing, pre-dropping, and shoot, it's literally called "running to comp corner".
Being competitive doesn't make it a fun strategy to play as or against. However, since we're talking about extra hook time, comp is also one of the biggest examples of hook bombing. Survivors will literally unhook the instant the killer finishes the hook animation to keep the pressure to a minimum.
So somehow, were supposed to believe that all of these things are "being maximally efficient", except survivors somehow want their teammate to be in time out for an extra 10 seconds to give the killer more pressure? C'mon now.
The competitive sene is good, because it shows what the actual problems of the game are.
Btw, it's not just those words you used, it's a lot of macro strategy, efficient chases, skill.
A lot of people actually like the competitive side of the game. Many.
" Survivors will literally unhook the instant the killer finishes the hook animation to keep the pressure to a minimum. " : This is just factually not true.
In comp, if you just rescue immediately, you will get tunneled, plain an simple.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
It’s not proportional though, because killer generator perks have been massively nerfed since then… but survivor generator stuff is still just as strong as it used to be.
And there is way too much value, when survivor generator stuff is stacked with a 32 charge toolbox.
Exactly, it's not proportional.
@Krazzik said:
It punishes camping more but it's not gonna do anything against tunneling, sadly.
Exactly. Unless you consider camping a part of tunneling.
@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771680#Comment_3771680
Why this style even punished. I think it should be player choice how to play. Put presure or stayed around hooked survivor. Developers ruin all fun from the game try make it healthier. You can say that stay around hook the entire game is not. I believe it should be player choice and not developers. Cause developers literally took away all freedom and just say "you play wrong, play like we say to you and no other way". Camp with insidious the only fun killer can have in this game and now they ruined even this. I understand why the doing this, cause last year update only favours survivors and killers get nerfs after nerfs. So its not a surprise that new patch would be the same (only buffs for survivors and only nerfs for killers).
I disagree with this. Camping should be punished, but this is not the way.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771722#Comment_3771722
The devs have decided that camping isn't the way they want the game to be played.
In a big picture sense, the killer drives the core part of the game, especially since it's pvp. If the killer is afk, the game is just "do gens and leave", and there's no interaction at all. When the killer just stands at a hook, there's a bit of interaction in the first chase, but there are still 3 survivors out there. If you stand at a hook waiting around, doing nothing, you're not engaging in pvp at that point.
The devs aren't taking anything away from anyone. If you enjoy sitting at a hook, that's still your choice. It's a slightly less efficient choice now, and you may want to consider pressuring survivors instead.
Why can't they also make it a less efficient choice to "gen rush" so fast with perks? Or instantly heal with Resurgence? So make things that instantly destroy the killers' pressure.
@Star99er said:
10 more seconds to have your teammates work on gens is all I see coming from this. Might be nice for solo queue survivors but it’s a major buff to SWFs doing gens.
Exactly. Strong swf and comp like players are just going to destroy even more. Even just 4 solos that are good.
@dwight444 said:
our fellow solo q randoms will now crouch behind a rock for an extra 10 seconds
This is unironically true: without a Kindred basekit change, this won't change. They will just crouch 10 seconds near a hook.
@Paternalpark said:
Good. Had a game last night where the killer just camped first 2 survivors to death then slugged for 4k.
Soloq needed this.
This won't change a dang thing for solo Q.
You won't get to the endgame in solo Q with this change.
@Monarch said:
This is a fine change, I suppose, it disencourages camping (good for all sides, in terms of fun), it helps solo q, as solo q teammates often have the mentality of "I'm sure someone else will get it", so I get to stare at 3 teammates doing gens while i die, only for them to save me when im hitting stage 2, which is incredibly unfun.
But I can see it being annoying in comp circles and, to a degree, sweaty matches, it messes up a lot of the killers pressure, as a hook is now so much less important or scary, if anything, nerfing hooking might make slugging more valuable and be used more, but hopefully not.
It will help solo q (good), stop camping being so bad (good), encourage chases and ending chases quickly in order to have more pressure (good but also double edged, might make tunnelling and slugging more encouraged) and gives sweat squads and comp teams more time to levy saves (definitely fun for survivors, altruistic plays are the most fun things imo for surv, but could lead to seeming unfair situations for killer where survivors can seemingly mess around and play carelessly, take hits and reset many times, and still be able to pull off a save in the endgame).
Overall, it's positive, and I cannot see it being an awful change, or some life saving messiah as some might say, and the negative I mention is more of a nit pick and will likely not affect you unless you happen to have 10,000 hours, a phobia of grass and an interest in competitive dbd.
It's an awful change because it won't actually stop camping. So not even that is going to happen.
@Eelanos said:
Terrible game design. It should be 90 per hook state.
Unironically yes, they should actually be 90 seconds to stop camping, the problem is that this would completely nerf killers to the ground of course.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771554#Comment_3771554
my question is, where is generator defence perk buffs in this patch? Like whole reason why generator defence perk were nerfed was to make killer less reliant on generator defence perks. The way they did that is by making camp more effective. Now they're nerfing camping, so where is generator defence perks at?
Increases hook stage - > survivor can gen-rush more by leaving survivors longer on hooks but the killer don't have same gen perks they had prior to said change. My thought on this change is gen-rushing is stronger and killer got all their perk nerfed.
so where is all base-kit generator regress stuff at or what perks are killers suppose to use that have high impact like before?
EXACTLY. Playing with no perks is even more impossible now.
Now, with this change, they really messed up: as killer, you're even more gonna be forced to use Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock, Ruin, Pain Res, or No Way Out.
@drsoontm said:
The first idea that comes to mind is "gens-before-friends is now more powerful".
That means the killer will have to punish it even more harshly, tunneling being the first option coming to mind.
In a nutshell, yes 😂.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771656#Comment_3771656
Killer generator perks have been nerfed multiple times. And sometimes we are directly told it’s because killer generator perks need to be balanced around the possibility of killers stacking multiple of them together.
The same should apply to survivor generator perks/item/addons. The survivor generator stuff should be balanced around the possibility of survivors stacking multiple of them, and the fact that some toolboxes have 32 charges, is what causes all the stacking issues.
And let’s be real here. My only suggestion was for all toolboxes to have 16 charges, and that would make me happy. We don’t need to slippery slope here, that I’ll keep moving the goalposts until survivors auto-lose every game. Literally just make all toolboxes have 16 charges…… that’s it.
I totally agree with this.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771598#Comment_3771598
The "comp" scene perfectly illustrates why this change only hurts killers who camp.
The best survivor strategy is to get your teammate out of time out and off hook as fast as possible, so those extra 10 seconds will never come into play if survivors have any choice in the matter.
What this should, and hopefully will do, is put more pressure on killers who want to stand still at a hook. Now, maybe they'll consider their time better spent pressuring survivors off gens instead of watching a literal piece of furniture whole the rest of the survivors do whatever they want (hint: it's gens).
So, if the killer decides that standing around and letting survivors do gens for free is the best play, they're kinda the exact players this change is targeting tbh.
Then this tells me you don't really know how the competitive Dead by Daylight scene goes on average.
With all killers, especially low tier killers with no mobility, you absolutely have to secure a second stage no matter what, unless an extremely lucky situation.
So what you say is just incorrect, I'm sorry to say.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771555#Comment_3771555
Killers actually do have an incentive to leave the hook. To slowdown the other 3 survivors who are working on the gens rapidly and unimpeded.
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771558#Comment_3771558
I mean, yeah? If you make a mistake, that mistake should be somewhat punishing. That's what a mistake is.
As for the original topic, I'm on the fence. It'll allow efficient Survivors to repair gens while leaving the Survivor on the hook for longer, which is a pretty nasty strategy since you can bang out most of a gen and THEN go for the save with basically nothing lost anyway.
Then again, camping is annoying to go against, so it being less effective in general is a good thing for survivors. I feel it'll make an already effective tactic have a much larger margin of error, though, which isn't really a good thing.
"Gens before friends" strategy is surprisingly good if you know how to manage hook timers and not just immediately bomb towards the unhook. I'm leaning towards this being a negative change overall.
Not on all killers. The best play is still, and always be 99,999% of the times, to go back to the hook.
There needs to be an "incentive", a reward, for getting different hooks.
@Jacknalls_Paw said:
A killer who tunnels would do it regardless and we know that, now he will be punished a little more or he will think twice before doing it.
Problem: if they don't tunnel then survivors can immediately negate the pressure with Resurgence, and heal in 3 seconds with a medkit. So there is no option.
@Reinami said:
Should have been done with the gen changes, but 10 is probably too much, it should be proportional to the gen changes.
I.E. gens were 80 seconds now 90, thats a 12.5% increase, so 12.5% more of 60 is 67.5 seconds.
This seems more fair, even if I would have done different durations for the different hook phases.
@Crowman said:
I don't think it'll solve what people think it'll solve.
Survivors going for immediate saves or hiding around the hook waiting for the killer to leave will still have the same end result.
Exactly, which doesn't solve anything really. It just punishes low tier and mid tier killers for no reason.
@SkeletonDance said:
I think it will change nothing
Yep.
@Jaysax said:
They justify this change in the post by saying it will hurt camping, which is fair enough. I hate camping, its boring, but I wouldn't have to do it if the maps were bearable and didnt have pallets facing eachother 10m away like on Eyrie for example.
They fail to realise though that making the hook stages 70s will hurt killers who dont camp more than it will hurt killers that do. Every time you hook someone the rest of their team has an extra 10s on a gen before they have to go unhook that person. Thats more progress than a Surge proc, for example.
Its more likely you can defend the hook than get another survivor hooked in the same time they will do 1 or 2 generators, and say if you did get a second hooked, thats spread pressure, and with only 2 or 3 gens left to do in the mid-game, its not looking good for the killer.
The rest of the game, particularly the maps, is not balanced enough yet to make this a good change.
"They fail to realise though that making the hook stages 70s will hurt killers who dont camp more than it will hurt killers that do. Every time you hook someone the rest of their team has an extra 10s on a gen before they have to go unhook that person. That's more progress than a Surge proc, for example."
EXACTLY THIS. Couldn't explain it better.
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771554#Comment_3771554
I think 60s→65s of hooktime was warranted with 80s→90s of gentime. I initially thought and equal time change was the right call (back when they first floated the idea of 90s gens), but now I think 65s is enough to match the gen time. I would also say the anti-facecamp grace period would also be a fine equal 'paused timer', so with the current 7s, we could have 67s per stage. I wouldn't want to go above that though.
Also with @Reinami pointing out, gens got a 12.5% increase, so hooks getting an equal 12.5% increase to 67.5s would mathematically be 'just right'. That would probably be better than me just going off 'vibes'.If survivors leave the teammate reach second stage, not saving them, USUALLY there is something that went wrong in their macro pressure. Which is why, imo, if that happens, the second stage should be shorter, being 50 seconds.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771559#Comment_3771559
Camping is still often mathematically better that not though. Think of it this way.
If you don't camp, you have
- 1 survivor on the hook, 3 survivors on gens.
- You start looking where to go next.
- Probably around the time you find out where the next survivor roughly is, a survivor is leaving a gen, now you have, 1 survivor on hook, 1 going to the hook. 2 on gens. Lets say this process takes around 20 seconds to get to (about 20 seconds, to get to the middle of the map from the edge accounting for having to pick the survivor up and hook them)
- Another say, 5 seconds later you find your target and get them off the gen, now you have 1 survivor on hook, 1 going for save, 1 on gens, and 1 being chased.
- Probably another 5 seconds later, the survivor on hook gets saved.
- Another 16 seconds later, that survivor is healed.
- Another 10 seconds later, both of those survivors are on a gen.
- And around now you probably get the down from your chase.
- How much gen time elapsed?
For 20 seconds, you have 3 survivors on a gen = 60 seconds
For 5 seconds, you have 2 survivors on a gen = 10 seconds
for 29 seconds, you have 1 survivor on a gen = 29 seconds
this is a total of 60 + 10 + 29 = 99 seconds of gen progress, a little more than 1 gen.
Now what if you camp?
- 1 survivor on hook, 3 survivors on gens.
- You start camping
- This probably lasts around 20 seconds as before, then the survivors start to wonder
- Now the question is, are they an organized team or not? More often than not, they are NOT an organized team, but lets assume the OPTIMAL scenario in most games?
- So, 1 survivor starts going for save, you have 1 survivor on hook, 1 going for the save, and 2 on gens.
- After about 10 seconds or so, the survivor going for the save realizes you are camping.
- Maybe they poke you, or emote you to "come here" but overall they probably goof off for 15 seconds or so, before they realize you aren't budging.
- At this point, often times multiple survivors will now get off the gens to come for a save because multiple is needed to not trade. But again, maybe they just have the 1 guy guy go back on gens, so now you have 3 survivors on gens
- The guy on hook has now been on hook for 45 seconds. You only need another 15 to hit second stage. Which if you are smart, is what you are looking for, then you go interrupt them.
- So now you have a 2nd stage hook, similar to before, but just on the same survivor and how much gen time has elapsed?
For 20 seconds you have 3 survivors on a gen = 60 seconds
For 10 seconds you have 2 survivors on a gen = 20 seconds
For 15 seconds you have 2 survivors on a gen = 15 seconds
For 15 seconds you have 3 survivors on a gen = 45 seconds
That is 60 + 20 + 15 + 45 = 140 seconds on a gen, about 40 seconds more than the above.
Well, what do you get for it? Well the reality is, that first chase typically lasts 3 gens anyway. And if it doesn't the survivor getting chased is bad, or the survivors doing gens are bad. So it often makes sense to do this because during the scuffle to find the next gen, the survivors aren't doing anything. Additionally, this is assuming that survivors play OPTIMALLY. Which you know they don't the vast majority of the time.
Secondly, what you get is still 2 hook stages, the difference though is that if you camp, the 2nd stage is on a single survivor, instead of 2 different survivors. This is far more powerful, because now survivors have to spend even MORE time either protecting said survivor, and body blocking them. That survivor needs to spend more time trying to hide, or they risk being eliminated completely.
If you get down to 3 survivors and there are 2 gens left, it is often a win for a killer at that point, because survivors can't keep up unless the killer makes a big mistake. If there is 1 gen left, its possible for them to come back if you make small mistakes.
All in all, camping is often more effective than not, because the vast majority of the time, the survivors will not play optimally. And even when they do, it opens them up for a quick tunnel into a long drawn out 1v3.
Now it's not even "16 seconds later they healed", it's 2/3 seconds with Resurgence HAHAHAHAHA. So to avoid it you gotta stay super close to the hook.
@fussy said:
Obviously awful change, leave a way bigger room for mistakes for survivors. Especially on comp scene, I don't even know what they will do with these 20 sec in a matches, where literally every second can decide outcome of the match. Probably survivors will play itemless or even more perks will be banned, while public matches will have 4 Resi/4 Adren / 4 Toolboxes still without any problem, lol.
In comp this is LITERALLY terrible. Literally terrible. Awful change.
@Coffeecrashing said:
It should have been implemented with an update for toolboxes, that changes all toolboxes to only have 16 charges.
Generator speeds are too quick, when survivors stack generator perks/addons with a 32 charge toolbox.
EXACTLY. Commodious toolboxes are still so so broken.
@th3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771610#Comment_3771610
Gen speeds were too quick when toolboxes had 90-180 charges in them. Now they are too quick when toolboxes have 16-52 charges, skill checks only give out 1% bonus progression to the gen, gens have 10 additional charges, and coop inefficiency is buffed to 15%. Will gen's always be too fast or will they be just right when you can end the game at 4 gens every time as killer?
Alright, then you don't really know how insanely fast some generator builds make the game go.
You know what, fine....just give the killer a funny little perk that, when you hook a survivor they go directly second stage, why not. What could go wrong...
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771558#Comment_3771558
I mean, yeah? If you make a mistake, that mistake should be somewhat punishing. That's what a mistake is.
As for the original topic, I'm on the fence. It'll allow efficient Survivors to repair gens while leaving the Survivor on the hook for longer, which is a pretty nasty strategy since you can bang out most of a gen and THEN go for the save with basically nothing lost anyway.
Then again, camping is annoying to go against, so it being less effective in general is a good thing for survivors. I feel it'll make an already effective tactic have a much larger margin of error, though, which isn't really a good thing.
"Gens before friends" strategy is surprisingly good if you know how to manage hook timers and not just immediately bomb towards the unhook. I'm leaning towards this being a negative change overall.
Pretty much. Yeah, why shouldn't a mistake be punished?
@HexHuntressThighs said:
Really just a big boost for smart survivors. Many times I have found myself hooking someone and then going to find someone else and 3 gens pop. I could usually return back to hook to secure a second stage or force a trade but now it will be more difficult. In those scenarios I’ll probably just force stage two and then tunnel them out immediately. I’m not buying the whole “punishing camping” because they already have base kit Anti Camp and they have Camaraderie and Reassurance which were made just for that reason.
EXACTLY. It's just a big boost for smart survivors.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771632#Comment_3771632
We don’t need to make a slippery slope fallacy.
Yep.
@ays12151 said:
I have 6200 Hours in the game and I'm a Killer Main. I'm even a Bubba Main.
Increased hook phases are good and bad in the same time. It's hard to tell. If it gonna push Killers to play more for chases and apply pressure - that's great. Removing camping & boring Gameplay is very good idea. But in the same time it makes Killer harder to punish Survivors for their mistakes and late reactions. After hooking a Survivor, Killer is going away to get another chase. He played well and ended chase quickly. Survivors choosed to stay on the Generator and they finished the Generator before going to unhook and these additional 10 seconds give them opportunity to get a trade or even safe unhook. Just an example where Killer wanting to apply pressure in fun way and play for chases is punished and he can't punish Survivors for their mistakes. Like I said - it can be bad - it can be good. Personally I wouldn't change hook timer, but okay. I think adding Kindered Base Kit & Corrupt should be the next step.
Exactly: make Kindred basekit.
@Neaxolotl said:
Not enough, make it 180 seconds and tunneling or camping will ceases to exist
I don't know if it's a joke or not, but unironically this would actually kill camping.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771556#Comment_3771556
Those pesky Survivors. They DESERVE to be punished. DESERVE!!
Seriously, it will be a change which will be implemented and one week after implementation nobody will talk or care about it.
So what? Shouldn't killers be punished for not defending gens? Who makes a mistakes "deserves" to be punished, in every game.
If you don't think so, then killers should also have a catch-up mechanic, like Noed basekit Endgame, but I don't think you want that.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Should have been implemented alongside the increase of Gentime.
If someone does not (proxy)camp a lot, they wont see a difference. Someone who relied on camping a lot will have a worse time. Which is a good thing.
This can also be bad: if survivors do mistakes, and deserve to get punished....now they just have more time to recover for free and do gens!
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I don't think it's gonna be good:
Killers still have NO default incentives to leave hooks and not tunnel or camp.
So it's STILL not gonna solve the fact that tunneling a person in 3v1 ASAP is always the best play.
Now perhaps even more the best play, considering survivors can just finish the gens and save last second.
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I'm still queueing as survivor.
So, IF there were somehow too many killers in cross play off, by now I should be in a lobby.
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Like, it's not "a bit unbalanced", or "fairly unbalanced", it's MASSIVELY UNBALANCED.
If 3/4 people Sprint Burst together, you can escape so so far away also.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763153#Comment_3763153
7 survivors are doing other gens insanely quick
If you're just talking about gen work in general (unlikely, but possible), then I'll say: gens are not fun. Most people don't play survivor to sit on gens.
If you're (more likely) talking about survivors being able to escape, then I'd agree with that. And that's the only benefit I can see for survivors, a likelihood of escape. What happens between the start of the match and their escape is a lot less likely to be much fun for them, but if they're rewarded with an escape for putting up with not having the best time individually, then they're more likely to queue up again so the 2v8 mode doesn't dry up and leave killers waiting for an hour for a match on the first day.
I'm also going to take this moment to point out my fear when it comes to playing survivor: as is, I often play with one friend, and so matches are usually me and him and 2 useless teammates who both avoid aggro and don't touch gens. I fear this mode is going to be more of the same, but with 6 useless teammates who avoid aggro and don't touch gens. I can't predict if things will actually go that way, we'll see what happens when 2v8 goes live, but I don't even get to have my lute, I'm not sure I have any interest in being a survivor in this mode, especially not if it's me dying in most matches.
I think there should not be a buff for killers when both are close together, that's insane imo. Already a survivor is screwed in that situation.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762980#Comment_3762980
A question I have, not necessarily directed at you but in general, is: what's in this mode for survivors?
2v8 gives killers the ability for 2 killers to put a survivor in a no-win situation multiple times in a single match. Killers tag-teaming have the opportunity to make chases very short. What good is a vault or pallet if there's a killer on either side of it? Survivors also can't save each other off the killer's shoulder because there are cages, not hooks. In a mode that can give killers the chance to use survivors as a tennis ball, what is in it for survivors?
Also, if killers don't tag team and stick together, then what are the killers getting out of it? Chatting about sports and movies on coms while playing an otherwise normal match? You could do that on the phone or Discord without being in the same match together.
If the 2 killers chase just 1 survivor, they lose, even if they waste just 20 seconds on that survivor, because the other 7 survivors are doing other gens insanely quick, with no gens slowdown.
+ The cage isn't at all where the killers wants.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I imagine you've put wayyyyyyy more thought into killer efficiency within this mode than it was designed for. As it is right now, chaos rules for like 7-9 minutes until the gens are done and like maybe two survs are dead. And the gens will get done.
Y'all try to enjoy them chases more, that's what it's about really on the killer side, not kills and preventing the gates getting powered.
"Fun", in my opinion, isn't getting bullied by 8 survivors instead of 8, and getting also tbagged at the exit gate by 8 survivors.
The game needs to be balanced, on both sides.
24 hook states for just 8 gens is ABSOLUTELY TOO LITTLE.
Don't take me wrong, it doesn't need to be "perfectly balanced", but this is WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too much favouring survivors.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758590#Comment_3758590
During loading is when systems are under more stress, it's why we tend to not "punish" any issues at this time.
Understood, thank you.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Honestly if you run a plunder build it doesn't seem to be that bad. You get good items and can lock progress on a gen relatively easy, no map required. Only thing it gets hurt by is Weave (if this brings in the crazies we apologize).
As to the "solutions":
- That would be around 56% per survivor running the perk. No. Absolutely no. Hell no. We can't say no enough.
- Again, on each survivor.
- ... this one is admittedly reasonable. Only thing we can think of is how big the bonus is as people can throw shiny coins for more boxes.
- This would make it a straight upgrade to Appraisal then. We're not exactly opposed, but change appraisal first if we're adding this plz.
There are a handful of perks to show chests, the best of which in our opinion is Plunders instinct, which heavily lowers the risk of bad items and time to look for boxes. Yes you need to build into it, but you generally need to build into a lot of things to make them shine.
It's not THAT bad, but it's still bad.
The time it takes to find a chest, open or rummage it, take the item, and going back to a gen, is so big that you'd waste way less time by just running Hyperfocus by itself.
If survivors just search chests the entire game, and the killer tunnels someone, they will be at 5 gens 3v1 extremely quickly.
If each survivor uses all of those perks, then they won't have any DS, OTR, DH, New Babysitter, Resilience, and many other perks.
Even I that I've been complaining about the absurd default gen speed if the killer uses no slowdown perk, have to say that the values are way way too little.
Even Weaving Spiders is still bad in comparison to what a 4 stars balanced perk should be.
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@Mandy said:
The DC penalty is not going to be removed. Bots are not there to help a person DC but to give some small help to those that are left behind in the trial. If you DC for any reason you are still ruining the game for the others left in the match and bots are just to help mitigate that a little.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2AAFH22FUT9S/image.png
And no, none of the above are okay or valid reasons to DC. If you are stuck in place in a trial due a bug, if you have an IRL emergency - those are valid reasons for which we have the "Leave Match" button. The first DC is kept short specifically for situations like that.
If you ready up in the lobby, you should be prepared to out the match to its conclusion.
(here endeth my sermon)
Are there any plans to enforce a DC penalty when the match is loading, so, for example, when a killer sees a bad map offering and quits before it even starts?
Is it technically possible?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755414#Comment_3755414
Allegedly it's a visual bug which causes players' screens to turn pink and flicker when hit with knives. Of course this raises concerns for players with photosensitive epilepsy so people have been asking for Trickster to be killswitched.
That being said, I've searched high and low for any actual footage of the bug on YouTube, Twitter, Twitch, etc. and can't find anything that isn't months old. The developers themselves have also been unable to recreate the bug internally as per their statement on Twitter.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NYYB5M3XATCR/image.png
I won't share any footage here given that it could be triggering to someone with epilepsy, but it looks to me more like a graphics card issue than a DbD one.
There many many comments, in YouTube videos, Twitch, etc.
You don't need an absolute proof to shut down something potentially life threatening immediately.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738832#Comment_3738832
I have a 4070 super and a little time after UE5 the game has ran terrible when using gsync. Was fine when it was first updated to UE5 then performance has not recovered since. I won't be buying anymore content until it's addressed it's shoddy as hell!
CONFIRMING EVEN MORE IT'S LIKELY A CPU PROBLEM.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738351#Comment_3738351
seems like our gpu is just not good enough for new engine ;)
It doesn't seem a GPU problem, but a CPU problem.
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I updated: the only thing I disagree on, or at least consider very controversial, are the map variations.
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This seems my exact same thing.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Floods isn’t supposed to be countered by self-unhooks and there was a bugfix patch note saying that was fixed at some point. So if that’s still happening then do a bug report because that’s not intended.
As for MYC, there’s no way it can really work with self-unhooks, it exposes the rescuer and there is no rescuer in this case.
Devour Hope I think it’s fine that it doesn’t work with self-unhooks, it’s already a strong perk that can single-handedly win a game and does not really need to be buffed.
edit: found the relevant patch notes for floods of rage, it was patch 7.6.1
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/APBJE9E8HKJI/a370cc5c-6958-444c-a8f3-7d8fe7ace0bf.jpeg
#########, I didn't even know about this! This is GOOD!
PROBLEM: It doesn't reveal who unhooks themselves….which is bad.
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@vol4r said:
Same thing here. ryzen 9 5900, 32gb of 3200MHz RAM, high-end SSD and gtx 1070.
dx11 doesn't help.
We have same graphic card, seems like a problem.
Playing game on 1366x768 helps, but it sucks.
Helps, but does it solve the problem?
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100% a bug.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731766#Comment_3731766
Hmm. I'm really not sure what to suggest then :( Maybe a support ticket could help?
I could try.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731758#Comment_3731758
What storage device do you have DBD installed on? I know this can be an issue with HDDs. Also, have you tried verifying the integrity of the game files via steam?
I did verify the game files, but nothing. same thing.
I've always had Dbd on my SSD.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Try if forcing the game to use DX11 instead of DX12 helps.
I tried to do that, but it doesn't help, it still stutters in game. The stuttering happens always when some sort of action happens.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730909#Comment_3730909
How does devour hope incentives splitting hooks? You literally can tunnel and still get stacks so long as your far away enough in time.
Considering that we outlined how it's fine. Yes. You wanna throw a fit and do that on the off chance someone may or may not have Deliverance, you do you, but we think it's fine that Self unhooks can counter these.
I will try to tunnel even with Devour Hope and totem protection perks, to see what happens, but I don't think there's enough time to succesfully get to 3 stacks even before the game ends, considering the time you waste on anti-tunneling perks.
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@Rulebreaker said:
We're going to first ask why shouldn't self unhooking counter these handful of things.
Next we're going to explain how Deliverance requires one to safely unhook a survivor and then be hooked before everyone else is gone (dead or alive) to use it. That's at minimum 2 hook states, something very valuable to survivors if they want to live, for 1 guaranteed self unhook. If the one with deliverance is caught first, it's a dead perk the whole trial, if the rescuee is caught from a unsafe hook, they have to try again, and to get any value out of it, it costs 2 hook states minimum. We feel deliverance is fine.
Third is that a myriad of things counter other things in this game. Calm Spirit counters any screaming from perks to powers and Spies from the shadows, which itself counters distortion and other anti aura perks survivors got. If self unhooking (which unless there's luck or a perk in play, is 4% chance per swing) counters a few things, we say good.
Deliverance is so fine that I want to stop using Devour Hope or other perks that incentivize splitting hooks, and just run Corrupt, Deadlock, Pain Res and Ruin/No Way Out, and tunnel the ######### out of the first survivor every single match, so it's a 3 vs 1 ASAP, I don't eat the 2/3 Deliverances that might potentially be there in a team, as well as other perks that don't take effect if you do the "NASTLY GROSS TUNNEL" strat.
That's so fun and fine right?
1 Deliverance is fine, 2/3 OF THEM ARE NOT.
There needs to be a limit to how the mechanic works, because 2 of them in a match already is something the killer hardly recovers from.
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@Cali88 said:
Key word: might
It requires two perk slots and the player standing still for at least 4 seconds. It still may end up more of a detriment to try getting use out of. It should've been reducing activation time to 4/3/2 seconds instead
Also eta: Open-Handed extends auras by 16 metres so it's actually 40 metres total
Oh #########, right, it's 40 meters, I almost forgot! Well, Open Handed is just 1 perk out of 16, which allows MASSIVE value.
But yeah, it could also be not THAT strong. -
BHVR VERY WELL DONE!
This is indeed a GREAT MECHANIC.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
He doesn't need a compensation buff, even when survivors aren't fully infected his power is strong. His Bound has a lot of potential, and this update doesn't change anything that you can actually do with it. Everything that you could do in chase with Wesker's dash before the update, will still work after the update.
The only things these changes do are:
-Makes full infection not a guaranteed down 99% of the time, while keeping full infection a dangerous threat. It still makes you one-shot, and 4% hindered, while not 8%, is still significant since it is permanent until you are cured. It's still worth going to get a spray to get rid of your infection. And infection still reduces his power cooldown.
-Makes recently unhooked survivors less vulnerable to being tunneled. Yeah, you can still tunnel them, any killer can. But you have to actually catch them without relying on a slowdown mechanic if you want to be efficient about it. It will take a lot longer now to reach the full infection after an unhook, and when they do reach it, the slowdown is reduced. Overall, it makes tunneling in that situation less appealing than it was before, and with the previous 8% slowdown there was not really anything the tunneled survivor could do, even a DS only delayed the inevitable since in general, you cannot loop a Wesker with 8% hindered. Unless you have a haste perk or something that just doesn't happen.
It could have been a great opportunity to make vaccines something like Pig's traps, where you have to waste time or play the macro game, but no, they chose to just nerf his catch up tool and making the full infection threat much weaker overall, what a garbage change imo.
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@BlueMoonBRUHMOMENT said:
It's also really weird how BHVR is shying away from killer power targeted perks (Adren and Freddy), but then back peddling and making stun perks interact with Plague's power.
Also, a "5 year bug" is a feature at this point unironically.Exactly. I wish there was something constructive to say.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Trapper plays like M1 killer and if you step into his trap, no extra quiet sound helped that, its your own fault. You can still hear him set up fully that trap or just use eyes mid chase.
Huntress is worse tho because she uses power a lot in chase and that info is key there. They allready said its a bug so they will fix it.
So there are no Pay to Win skins in future. Trapper doesnt count also its Trapper like come on, top weakest killer in the game that plays like M1 for most part. If you lose to trapper its not because of pay to win bear.
@dbdplayerabc123 said:
Considering you can buy Naughty Bear with shards, its technically not pay to win. Also, it's Trapper...
Even if "it's just Trapper", the advantages are not little in a 1vs1, especially the no breathing sound through walls. That's quite considerable for mindgames.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
What makes you think this was intentional, and not a bug?
I'm starting su be suspicious: why hasn't Naughty Bear been made not, or even less pay to win since he was released?
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I'm very disappointed: I feel like, especially if I wanna play in a tournament with Huntress, I'm kinda "forced" to buy this skin, otherwise I'd be in a disadvantage.
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Please give an icon to Wicked, so your teammates now you have it and don't come to the basement.