LapisInfernalis
LapisInfernalis
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What I was wondering:
When hitting a survivor gives you 2 stacks and destroys the tape and hooking only destroys the tape, what will happen if you get grabbed out of a locker?
If you still get the 2 stacks, it's fine, but if not (because you don't get hit), then this will get abused....
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@Pavel_Ch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491226#Comment_3491226
challenge thrown. swing competently, and not through the autoweb.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8D0IB91A65TN/screenshot-20230724-150135.jpg
I only use auto-buy on low levels (1-20), rarely higher and certainly not on Lvl 50. I'm just not that interested in BNPs.
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@I_am_Negan said:
MMR sucks because kills and escapes. Kills and escapes should not be the answer to MMR.
Someone that does nothing the whole match (killers and survivors) move up in MMR that shouldn't be there. They get carried by camping or hiding all match while their team does everything..
Bottom line someone that stands around all match doing nothing (AFK at times) is the better player then someone that's active.
true. although if i remember correctly they adressed that for survivor at least. your mmr does not decrease as much the more of your team escape. but for me the 9 months with the "only escapes" count MMR did the damage to my ranking as i had fun by getting all people out, which caused me to die more often. yeah.
why theydid not do it for killer is beyond me.
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@mikewelk said:
So MMR sucks but solo queue doesn't? The main reason solo queue sucks is because matchmaking puts you with survivors that have 1/7 the hours you have. Here's one example:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B6GEQ39I9WSG/zrzut-ekranu-2023-07-22-165058.png
I have over 1,400 hours on Steam. This was one of my teammates.
If you're saying that you go against pubstomper killers every game due to MMR then that would make a bit more sense.
I see that almost every match with my over 6k hrs.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
Yes! Imagine Chris or Carlos with a Ugly Sweather! Would look so good on them, COME ON BHVR! And I also love Claire, I played her Military outfit a lot in RE 2 Remake so I would be down to legendaries getting cosmetics 😄
I wish Chris would get his RE5 outfit (that Felix got for some reason) or even his RE7 gear or RE8 coat. It has bothered me for a long time now, that Chris' outfit is from RE1 but his model is from RE5.... If they would fix that, I would be glad.
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See it as hard mode. If you can hide as Carlos, you can hide as anyone.
As a Jeff Main I know that.
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@Pavel_Ch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489398#Comment_3489398
As I told someone, low prestiges don't have 300bnp and probably came to complete some kind of quest. do you know that on p100 you play endlessly with the best items and addons?
Sorry to disappoint you. Currently I don't even have 10 BPS on my P100 right now. Not because I use them, but because they are expensive and I only get the cheap things from the web and therefore I don't collect them.
And as P100 I don't need BPS, I just use an event Toolbox (=Commodious Toolbox) with charge addons if I really want to do gens. But that is boring.
Just give me a yellow flashlight with a brown battery. I'm happy with that. And I got 600 of these (1000 of the addon).
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"Welcome to the party", I guess.
I experience this kind of harassment as a P100 player myself even if my main is not considered toxic or anything at all (I main Jeff), and I'm also not toxic in game. I never was. I don't t-bag, I don't click or similar. I just play the game.
I stopped playing Jeff because I needed a break from all this and the fact that if you have a bad day or match people will tell you in chat how you cheated P100 because "nobody who is so bad has P100". Or I get told that I have no life either because of a P100 or because I have over 6k hrs once I go into a lobby....
And then there are those killers who are lobby shopping and make the match worse for everyone by leaving which leaves you with a try hard Blight.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490696#Comment_3490696
Modern problems require modern solutions 😎
Well... That is just what I do. After I finished my main Jeff on P100 I first leveled all new survivors to P9 and then leveled Wesker and Chris. Wesker is P58 and Chris 26 now.
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@LostSpirit said:
Me, like some people else, have long ago achieved p100 and at this point we are just spending bloodpoints for nothing, can we get something further than p100? like some little small symbol if we p100 again i dont know
Then it's time to P100 the next character.
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I am so glad that I stated almost 5 years ago where there was like 25 characters in total. And even then it took me 1700hrs to get everything on one character on each side (because every 3 months there was a new chapter). And that is when I bought all the characters.....
I can't even imagine how it is to start now and see all the grind. Shrine of Secrets is garbage and completely outdated. Back in the day it was kinda useful because there were less perks and therefore the rotation would be a lot faster.
I just hope they update it soon.
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I think 3-genning is a problem on a few maps, but on almost all of those the location of the 3-gen is roughly fixed and can be easily avoided.
Just make sure to do gens in the middle first and then don't do gens next to each other. If you need help with this use Deja Vu as it shows you the closest 3 gens at all times.
The only 3 maps that can be very hard with 3 or even 4-genning are Blood Lodge and both RPD versions. Blood Lodge almost always has a 3 or 4 Gen around shack depending on the direction the Main building is turned. Just don't touch the 2 gens at the bus/crane side. On other maps with a distinct 3-1-3 layout (like Sanctum or Azarov's) you can prevent the 3gen by just doing 1 Gen on each side and the middle one first.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
Remember when devs nerfed Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, because it was a "jack of all trades"? Wesker is one too, shouldn't he receive the same treatment?
Wesker's power:
- great mobility
- good antiloop
- side objective for survivors (spraying)
- killer instinct notifies you of a survivor's whereabouts, so you can easily tunnel them, especially if they're injured
- full infections hinders you, including mid-chase, so even if you're really good in chase, the hindered status effect loses you the chase prematurely
- if he hits 2 survivors close to each other (including right after unhooking), wesker's attack injures (or puts in deep wound) both of the people
Considering all of this, it's no wonder he is so popular. Doesn't this guarantee a nerf? I mean, if you give a killer everything, then yeah, why would people want to play other killers who have less abilities? What are your thoughts?
Skullmerchant:
- easy 3-gen porential
- side quest for survivors (hacking drones)
- pinpoint information
- increased speed
- stealth
- power makes survivors exposed
Do we need to look at Skullmerchant because she can do "too much"? No. Just her part with 3-genning sucks.
So do we need to nerf Wesker? In short: No.
In long:
@LapisInfernalis said:
Dear People of The Fog,
there have been threads plopping up here that Wesker needs a nerf because he is played much and therefore must be OP, as this seems to be the reasoning for survivor perks getting nerfed. I am writing this to collect what complaints were mentioned and what I think of them to provide a more grounded view. I dare say I am pretty experienced with over 6k hrs. I might not be the best out there by far, but I have a good understanding of the game. Most of my hrs are from the Survivor side, but when I play killer I usually play Wesker. I do not belong to the Wesker Gods out there yet, but I know of all the funny stuff you can do with him and I am also able to perform all of them (although not all consistently yet).
Now to the main reason I write this post.
- "Wesker is played often, therefore he is OP and needs a nerf."
Not all Killers, perks or addons are OP, just because they are used often. Best example: Engravings on Billy. Wesker is FUN to play as he has an interesting power with high skill-ceiling that is satisfying to use (throwing or smacking survivors against objects is cool) but still leaves Survivors with enough coulterplay so that the player comes out top who was better, which is good design. His base-kit is strong enough not to be addon reliant, and his addons are all quite balanced. None of them is per se OP.
Also Wesker was the last Killer who had interesting gameplay to offer as Knight and Skullmerchant are the best at 3-genning, which is widely considered very boring. I can't tell much for the Singularity as I haven't really played that Killer since release. The gameplay just seems so clunky to me. And facing the Singularity is just nothing special. Therefore it is understandable that some players do not play those characters, but the last one who was actually proviging interesting gameplay. And that is Wesker.
Variety in matches is nice but should be NEVER a reason to get it nerfed. Back in late 2018/early 2019 95% of your matches on red ranks was Nurse, Billy and Spirit with the occasional Huntress in there. The other 5% were either very skilled with that killer and very terrifying for that reason (best exaples: Trapper and Doc) or just doing a daily.
The difference here is that both Spirit and Nurse were OP back then. Nurse had no cooldown, Omega Blink was a thing and she could have 5 blinks with little drawback. Spirit had no phase sound if you were in her TR, making chases against her extremly frustrating as you were basically tossing a coin every time if you would live or not. Her addons were on the same level as Blight's right now. Billy had one broken combo (Insta saw, or charge speed with engraving) but got gutted with the rework. Somehthing that I don't understand to this day. He was also a fun killer to play and to play against, strong but still balanced with high skill ceiling.
Look at him now....
Neither Wesker nor Blight are OP. Even Nurse is at a good spot right now I think. Basekit blight is completely fine. He just needs some addons getting looked at (Alc Ring, C33, Adre Vial and maybe speed).
No need to repeat the Billy tragedy.
- "All Weskers I face are just tunneling. It's so ez to tunnel with him and therefore he must be nerfed."
Tunneling is not a specific problem with Wesker. In fact there are other killers who can easily tunnel via their basekit (Pyramid Head), just because they are strong (Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Huntress) or can ignore Endurance with their power (Deathslinger) or via add-ons (Pinhead, Pig). People just think Wesker players tunnel the most as he is one of the most seen killers in some MMR regions. Therefore the chances are higher for a player they meet to tunnel than if they face a PyH once in 30 matches. Then there is also the "definition" problem of tunneling. Some say "tunneling" for anything while some say "tunneling" if the killer stops what he's doing just to get you out of the match.
Nonetheless there IS a way in which Wesker can tunnel well if he choses to. That often includes the usage of the Video Conference Device, which reduces the passive infection time by 30%. This causes unhooked survivors who have their infection set to 50/100 charges to get the infection debuff after just 40s (instead of 60s) which is not much in both cases. This is the ONLY part of his kit that might need some adjustment, although I would favour a global anti-tunneling mechanic over nerfing killers.
This adjustment could be:
- Removing infection on hook. This is very problematic as it almost completely removes information and slowdown from his kit as you would rarly need to spray yourslf then in the first place. This would be similar to wake up from Freddy's Dream without having the automatic timer afterwards.
- Pausing the passive infection until you do a Conspicous Action. That is a double edged sword as Survivors could use it to bodyblock for others without getting punished for it.
- Setting the infection meter upon getting hooked to 1/100 charges. This way the timer is about 120s (or 80s with VCD) until it is full. Common anti tunnel perks are active for 60 or 80s after getting unhooked so I used this as a guideline. If Wesker tunnels you off the hook for 80/120s after getting unhooked, there will be 2 gens finished after this is over. This also makes it not so punishing if you get hit with a dash during the BT effect and increasing your infection like it would be with it being set to 50%.
- "HIs hitbox is so bad"
Hitboxes are just a rough approximation of your character. It is actually just a cylinder for killer and survivor. There are many videos out there on YT explaining this.
- "He grabs you through windows and pallets"
That was a bug that existed for the last 6 months and is fixed with the next mid-chapter. He was always only supposed to just injure and infect you when you are mid-vault.
- "All his techs are exploits."
Now I opened Pandora's Box.... but all techs are not exploits until the devs say otherwise. Blight Hug-Tech is considered a bug, but we still don't know if they decided it to be a feature or if they are still trying to fix it. They never said anything about Wesker's fun stuff so the Devs seem to be fine with it for now.
BTW: You can still still dodge rebounds if you know where he will do it, and even Hug-Techs can be dodged. Most people just don't know the signs of Wesker doing this.
Constructive thoughts are welcome.
Stay safe in the Fog.
None of your mentioned reasons justify a nerf.
1. His mobility is mediocre at best as @GrimReaperJr1232 mentioned. Blight should be far better.
2. A good antiloop is not a reason to nerf him. His dashes are fun. You need good precision to get value. He is the typical killer with low skill floor and high skill ceiling.
His power is very balanced as you have tons of counterplay and the Player which is better will win the chase.
3. Side objective: Plague, Pig, Nemy, Onryō, Freddy... Just to mention a few. Also with the recent change that you can carry a can with your item has made it a lot faster to spray. You spend less time than before. About the tunneling: just look at Pyramid Head.....
You just don't complain about him because he is so rare and the chances that you get a tunneler is slim.
Oh and btw... Just don't spray if Wesker is unoccupied and/or near you. That helps a LOT to not get tunneled.
4. Full infection takes afaik 120s (80s with VCD). If he chases you still after that, then 3 gens are done and you should not be mad that the killer gets a bit help after that time. He basically lost the match with that chase anyway.
Hindred is just there to force cleansing. Or would you cleanse if it was something like... Blindness? No. Most people don't care about most effects and therefore they would never cleanse. (we had that with Plague when she came out, it was horrible).
5. The collateral damage hit is to reward pinpoint accuracy. DW was just added to make it more "clear".
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It is not an insta heal. It is actually more like a heal over 24s similar to Renewal. If you get hit, the heal is canceled, which is a lot stronger for the killer than if you could transfer medkit charges at once.
You proposal would actually be a massive buff which would make the Syringe as strong as it was years ago if you would use it with a full heal remaining. No thanks.
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I just remembered that McLean was the only Dev I know of, who actively played the game a lot until he left BHVR 2 years ago (i think). I don't know his exact hours and I don't know if he still plays dbd but he was very knowledgeable. He also did really cool changes back in the day like fixing Blights camera height to what it is now (it was so low like when you crouch as pig). He also had his concerns about CoH being so strong when it came out. I don't remember what he said he wished it would be, but I know that he certainly disliked how it gave you We'll Make It when healing others and a green medkit when healing yourself.
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I remember a video where someone was searching for the Devs on steam via their alias they used in the game's common perks descriptions or some items (like Alex's Toolbox). He found almost all of them and one of those had an account with 6 achievements and 44k hrs.
Make of that what you want.
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@yuffy141 said:
Cenobite is too strong.
When I pick the box, why chain hunting is still activating? That's too strong!!!
Nerf Cenobite !
That happens so you can't just keep the box and do gens once a chain hunt started (=timer is full). It also happens when the timer is not full but it is at a so slow frequency that you have no problems solving.
I recommend you running to the box when the timer is about 2/3 full so you have enough time to solve it without getting problems with the chains.
If for what reason you could not solve the box before a hunt started, you need to stand still let 3 chains spawn. You get rid of them and then you can solve it in peace.
You should also keep the terrain in mind where you solve the box just in case that Pinhead teleports to you.
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@jayoshi said:
They don't tweak/nerf based off of popularity. They tweak killers based on their kill rate. If that was the case then the Twins would be massively buffed. They like the kill rate on the Twins, so they are going to keep them the same even though hardly anyone plays as them. They also said that about Trapper too even though a lot of people think he needs a buff. They have said they like where his kill rate is currently at.
So if we get a Wesker nerf, it's not because of his popularity - it's because of how many kills on average he gets. If it stays at a nice rate, then no need to worry. If he gets too many kills easily, then he is clearly OP and would need a tweak. IMO, I don't think he is OP and I don't see them reworking him. I could see them doing a tweak here and there to some of his add-ons
I hope so, but I have also seen a lot nerfs with the Devs saying that they did it because it was everywhere in the forums or on reddit.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487030#Comment_3487030
Blight - I think Blight could survive a Billy level add-on pass, even his basekit is so ridiculously stacked its kinda insane.
Freddy - I'm not sure which rework you are talking about because he's probably had the most out of all Killers. Back when Ruin+Undying gave like 2-4 totems you needed to cleanse Freddy was definitely too powerful in terms of slowdown. Swing Chains was a Thana-like add-on for dream world Survivors (that could also stack with Thana as well), and Outdoor rope/Jump Rope was like an extra stack or two respectively, it was so stupid. It was almost like you had 10 gens to complete if you went against him as Survivor, that was definitely a dark time.
Yep, I'm also talking about Forever Freddy, but more the time before the Blight (and old Undying) came.
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@mizark3 said:
I agree that popularity nerfs (as seen in perks in 6.1.0) are bad. Fixing problems such as his turbo-tunnel potential (which you partially address) is good. I would also extend the Killer Instict on Spray to not work on Survivors who haven't done a CA after hook yet. That way you can't turbo tunnel the Surv who just got off hook and sprayed to avoid an untimely death, instead putting the target back on them.
Blight bug tech is a known bug claimed to be seeking a fix, and when I asked a while ago the Dev response was that using known bugs is NOT bannable. That was also when you could infinite stack Flashbangs, and I asked in reference to bug abuses on both sides. Now technically this isn't the most helpful, because the in-game the report literally has one of the options be "EXPLOITS - Report this player for exploiting bugs (emphasis mine), errors in design, or cheats to obtain a competitive advantage (emphasis again mine)." That just probably needs an updated description to match the one on the forums currently, as well as the Griefing category to include Intentionally ruin gameplay experience or some such. Technically with this (misleading) definition bug tech and Wesker bugs are bannable with this definition, but Sky Billy isn't, yet they instantly fix Sky Billy for no justifiable reason unless they hate fun. Overall the exploits aren't the intended strength of the Killer, and nerfing the Killer in general to counter balance with NOT fixing the bugs would be fair, if an annoying way to punish variety Killers who don't learn all the exploits. Personally I'd prefer the bugs be fixed, because he is very fun and fair to play as and against without bugs (barring the turbo-tunnel).
I partially agree with your analysis of 'all Weskers camp and tunnel'. I do think at least in some part the stronger Killers do draw in the sweatier players though. That increases the odds of them camping and tunneling to sweat. It also is negativity bias, where like MfT, people remember all their losses against MfT/SweatWeskers more, but not their victories against MfT and non-sweat Weskers.
Blight not OP - Yeah, well, that just like, your opinion man. Jokes aside I think any Killer that I personally can turn off my brain and win (3k+) with meme/no perks consistently (66%+) is OP. Currently that is Blight/Nurse (and Spirit before my hearing damage got too bad, that just means I still think Spirit is OP, only my failing body makes me unable to personally capitalize on her potential.). I do think Oni and Wesker are also both contenders if I played them more to master them to the point of muscle memory. Wesker has (almost too much) basekit slowdown, and Oni has (almost too much) lethality and basekit intel in the form of the blood orbs. Artist is just more annoying to deal with, because I don't feel as though you get enough distance when you outplay her, but I wouldn't say she is OP by my definition (perks amp her potential by a greater degree than many of the other Killers I talked about).
Edit: Fixed spelling
Also reading a couple other responses I saw something about MMR allegedly being worse for lower tiers. IIRC the devs said MMR helps the larger percentage of the population (the lower MMR), while not signifcantly changing the 'top-MMR' experience in comparison to Red Ranks of old.
Thanks for your reply.
I also thought about removing the killer instinct after unhook when spraying, but I thought it to be too much. Your idea about making it cause no killer instinct as long as you don't do anything seems fair.
I think Blight is OK without the busted addons and maybe without Hug-tech as this enables him to get crazy hits. But I really think that an addon pass would be a sufficient step for now. Imagine him getting Billy treatment. That would be so bad.
I think Wesker and Oni are both strong but not too strong. Sure Wesker has a huge basekit but so has SM: Undetectable, pinpoint info, speed, slowdown, insta-down, stall with 3-gen setup... Or Freddy just as he got reworked (back then people were saying that he can do everything): teleport, slowdown, chase, stealth and anti BT.
So I don't think Wesker can do too much.
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@Chomperka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481849#Comment_3481849
>He has always been popular because he is FUN and because the last 3 killers all... lack something to put it mildly.
since wesker is 100% chase-focused killer, of course people will consider him fun, because chase is the most unique and engaging activity in the game. But definitely does not mean that last 3 killers are bad tho, Knight is amazing hybrid of being both strong in chase and from strategic point, skull merchant is... honestly after all reworks she's not that bad and even fun, atlhough not chase-focused that's why people wont consider her "fun". Same for singularity. It's not for no reason why we have so little pickrate on hag, plague,etc... Those killers make you actually think and adapt, not just abuse your muscle memory. But that's just subjective.
There is just something very satisfying about Wesker throwing survivors and smashing them against objects. That is such an unique interaction as well. Both is fun. Sure this is only made better by him being a chase killer.
My problem with Knight is mostly that he's just like Artist: get to a loop, set Bird/Guard, check if survivor leaves and repeat if necessary. For me this is boring. Knight has the additional problem that he will take you into a pincer and you can't do ######### about it, which also feels boring.
Skull Merchant is just boring 3-gen strat. At least when I face her. Every match takes at least 30min and if you are not well coordinated or you get bloodlodge with an auto 4-gen at shack then you can give up. It's just dumb not to do the 3-gen strat with her as it would be dumb not to slug with Twins.
The problem with singularity seems to be (from what heard people tell) the high skill floor it has compared to a killer like Wesker, who has a lower skill floor but a high skill ceiling. Singularity seems to be fun too, but it appears it is too complicated to pick him up for many players.
I think Hag is just boring because chases are too short. There is no interaction. You just teleport and boom.
Plague Was very sluggish and could be hard countered in the beginning. She's actually very fun and strong too. I just think she has still a bad prep because she started bad.
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Do you remember old BT? That only activated while being in the TR, which made it really easy for stealth killers (and Freddy) to ignore.
The same problem would be with your idea too, just 10s later.
And there should be a time limit as well or else survivors will just bodyblock the killer because they have infinite BT as long as they are in the TR.
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I would be for it, especially for Jake and Sherry.
I just want RE4R Wesker (and his shirtless Usoboros Version from RE5) as well as the alternate leather outfit for Rebecca from RE0.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483168#Comment_3483168
There wasn't any license dispute with the IP, what happened was that the US rights to the original nightmare movies was reverted back to it's creator Wes Craven, however since he's dead the rights was given to his family The West Craven Estate, so now his family owns the rights to the original franchise within the US while Warner Bros / New Line owns the international rights to those movies.
It was done because Warner Bros / New Line were legally required to do so because there is (or was one back in the day, not sure if it got changed) a law that says if a movie maker has sold the rights for a movie(s) off to a company and a certain amount of years passes, the rights to the movie(s) are legally reverted back to the creator. It's the same situation that happened to Hellraiser with Clive Barker owning the rights to the first movie within the US while Park Avenue owns the International Rights.
Also i believe The Nightmare remake license we have in-game is solely owned by Warner Bros / New Line.
Ah OK. I wasn't sure as I only noticed it by coincidence when it was a thing.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Dont worry, its just Weskers turn in the "NERF CURRENT FOTM TOP KILLER"-rotation. It'll die down naturally or after the devs cave in again and
adjust him slightly nerf him. Then he'd be safe for aproxximately 4months before he gets targeted again.Its just part of being a strong popular killer.
Cant wait till survivor gets nerfed because theyre in every trial. God, using the logic applied to killers by our community on survivors always sounds so insane, its funny how those survivors dont notice how crazy the stuff is they demand.
I think it's mostly because a handful of streamers complain and some people just parrot what they hear without thinking it through.
I just hope it dies down. Wesker is one of the best designed killers out there. It would be a shame to destroy him because of some loud crying minority.
@Ripley said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483216#Comment_3483216
I have thousands of hours already. But it doesn't matter in solo queue when you have a queue system that will prioritise wait time over MMR. I am not going to study videos to git gud, I'm controller player with some disabilities. It just would be nice not to have to be thrown into these matches as someone else's grind fodder.
Oh OK. Sry. I just thought that, because he is a bit more difficult to understand for new players since he has so much stuff going on.
I can completely understand that MM can be really frustrating. I can't even play solo anymore because I play a lot with newer players atm and therefore have a lower escape rate which lowers my MMR. If I'd play solo I would loose my sanity with all the headless chicken running around, as it would not matter if I looped the killer for 3min...
I would wish for the old MM to come back. It was by far not ideal, but at least better than today. And on killer I would not have a sweat feast after another with the occasional noob group in between, but actually a variety of difficulty.
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@Ripley said:
My success rate as solo queue survivor - I've not survived a single match against him. I feel like there is literally nothing you can do against him. I'm not that good at looping. I am not a sweaty SWF player. Maybe it's my personal skill ceiling; I have yet to face a "bad" Wesker.
I hate how MM works in this game. If it's quiet time not enough killers on, it's Wesker, Nurse and Spirits that 4K at 5 gens, that are way above my skill level.
I'm sorry to hear that. MMR is bad for newer players and Wesker as well as Nurse and Spirit or Blight are difficult to verse for inexperienced players. But they are beatable. Just continue in getting better and improving. Go and watch loop tutorials on YT like those from OhTofu and I also think Otzdarva has also something similar. Use Windows of Opportunity to see where loops are and learn how to look back during the chase. You will improve as long as you don't just hide.
When I was in a similar situation back in the day I used all the perks that caused the killer to find and chase me so I needed to learn it.
Don't lose hope!
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They can't as NOES is a notoriously difficult mess of a license. And afaik the license holders differ from US and the rest of the world making it even more difficult. There was also a dispute going on about who owns the license too. So no idea what is correct now.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482393#Comment_3482393
I think he's popular across all levels. Perhaps he seems more common in high MMr because less weak killers are played, so the pool of killers can be smaller. But if I were to assume, I'd think he'd be more popular in low/mid levels because casual players like him since RE is so popular. It's also why RE survivors are stereotyped as been total noobs. (Leons having half a braincell, Rebecca's dying 10 seconds in a chase, Claire's also being meh etc.)
Yeah, completely forgot that he has the popularity factor too.
Leon is the new Dwight I suppose ^^. I use my P26 Chris to get a break from all the crap that comes with playing a P100 character. Even if said character is Jeff.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482270#Comment_3482270
They probably already do dislike those killers, Wesker is just more popular than all of them combined, especially on lower levels.
Really? I thought he is more popular on higher levels.
I see to be in a strange limbo then as I see maybe 1 Wesker in 15 matches which is quite similar to at least his pick rate according to Nightlight.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482235#Comment_3482235
You have to keep in mind the people who enjoy playing vs Wesker are probably not the same as the ones who don't enjoy playing against him. Also some people just hate getting chased in general, so of course they would hate Wesker as he can negate the distance one can make with something like SB(or any other exhaustion perk) vs an M1 killer.
I have had people in my team bring Spine Chill who go hiding out of fear of the killer or hiding in lockers. They are usually not very good in chases. Small wonder they'd dislike Wesker. You need to understand Wesker's power somewhat and not make decisions in panic to last against him.
Then those players should naturally dislike Nurse, Spirit, Blight or even Huntress as well.
And maybe encourage them to learn how to loop properly.
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@DrKetchup said:
It's like an Orwellian nightmare. One day he is considered the most fun killer to play against, then the next day he is the most horrible killer and deserves to be removed from the game. It's really scary to see how easily people's perceptions can be influenced by a few content creators. What's next? Huntress?
This is what I thought as well and mainly the reason behind this post.
There is a loud minority (mostly content creators) out there who say he is broken and then a few loud people just parrot what they heard from them.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
I don't think killers/perks should be nerf because they're popular that is silly. Wesker is as popular as he is because he is a licensed character and he was a great design, might even be the best designed licensed character BHVR has ever added. Every new killer that has come after is getting compared to Wesker, which imo is really silly. Wesker was simply a gold-mine. Nothing will probably top him and if there will be a killer who does then we should consider ourselves lucky to witness that.
I think his problems lie on the fact that he can tunnel super easily because of his power and his exploits which raise his skill ceiling by a lot imo. Thankfully I have not had to face a monstrous Wesker who can use his exploits and do godly things, but if these become features then we have to start looking at Wesker in a different way than we do atm. Just cause it's niche atm doesn't mean people will not get better at him and his overall skill level will increase. You can get away with saying they're not a problem because at the moment very few people can use them reliably, but he's been out for less than a year. Plus the time people need to become good at a playstyle shrinks exponentially over time because the playerbase's skill grows as well as more discoveries are made. The difficult part is finding new things to use on each killer/perk not actually learning how to do them, that usually takes less time.
Can we please not call techniques exploits if they are not called like this by the Devs? Thank you.
Calling techniques "exploits" by default just puts a negative light on them from the start.
None of Wesker's techniques are broken.
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@Pulsar said:
The more time goes on, the happier I am that I got this done with in 2019.
Late 2018 for me. People did not know how to hop in lockers back then. The only frustration was getting a farm map, Lèry's, Keys or dealing with the last person because you could not close hatch.
I remember doing it with Monto's TS build on The Game. I snatched the last player 1m away from hatch.
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Tbh I like it because it makes you fast. Similar to people who love to use Shadowborn or Billy/Blight because they like how fast it feels.
Is the perk op? No.
Is it unbalanced? Certainly.
Does it need a nerf? Yes but how?
It helps survivors extending chases and provides some sick gameplay with the endurance mechanic. You could remove the endurance but then the perk is boring. Remove the speed and the perk is nerfed to the ground.
The problem is, is that MFT like all other survivor perks can be in a match 4 times and affects the other 3 by giving them more time doing gens while you get chased. The combination with Hope makes it impossible for 110% killers and almost impossible for 115% killers to get you in the end-game. This leads to more tunneling to end the match before the last Gen pops.
MFT is not easy to balance as many aspects of the game are influenced with it.
@JdoHybrid428 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479762#Comment_3479762
I think that would be a cool change to it. Giving it a way of charging up. What popped in my head was healing downed survivors bc it would synergize with the perk.
That sounds interesting.
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@Peachblow said:
I've been playing the game for several years now, having played both killer and survivor relatively evenly. I do have to say that the game was in a much better state years ago. It felt more balanced for both sides of the coin (yet that's going to be a matter of opinion and moot point anyway). That said, I have a rather long post of ideas/opinions:
1. SOLO-QUEUE VS. GROUP-PLAY (SWF):
The primary issue with the survivor side of the coin is there's just such a huge disconnect between solo-queuing and playing with a four-stack of friends. With all the survivor nerfs over the past several months to years, the gap is simply far too wide to see much success in solo-queue games. Even matches where you have one or two friends join you, that one or two solo-queuers are at such an incredible disadvantage by not being able to communicate with the suvivors playing together. They almost always become a liability and (often unbeknownst to them) sabotage the entire game for the rest of the survivors. With a full group of friends, we will generally win the majority of games which is to be expected with a decently skilled survivor group. With solo-queuing, you're lucky to have two or more survivors escape... if you even make it to the end-game phase.
The survivor nerfs aren't all to blame though. If anything, I understand most of them to an extent. The issue is that there's just no communication system in the game. Sure, the survivor action display is helpful, but it barely provides solo-queuers with much. I don't believe in-game voice is a good idea because it will just get incredibly toxic. However, we need some sort of pinging-style communication system like many other multiplayer games have. There was another horror game that I fail to remember the name of that had a pretty robust communication system. Something similar to League of Legends' pinging-system would even suffice (ie: alert survivors you're going to a hook, you see the killer, the etc.). There just needs to be some sort of communication system that exists to share information like you would in a voice chat.
When I play killer, it's very evident when a survivor group is a pre-made SWF or solo-queuers. Games against SWFs can often be frustrating because they work so well to "bully" the killer. Something our SWF group will do too. Though I feel like the amount of games where I go up against a SWF is severely outweighed by solo-queuers. With solo-queuers, I'm almost always guaranteed a four-kill. So realistically, I'm fine going up against a SWF here and there making SWFs not the problem.
2. SURVIVOR ITEM RE-WORKS AND IMBALANCES:
A secondary issue I feel is that survivor items are becoming less and less appealing to bring. Maps and keys are just downright awful. Maps don't last very long to begin with, though their purpose is pretty short lived once you ping the map once to check for any hex totems, gens, etc. You might use it longer for killer belongings, but even then it's a pretty lacklustre item to bring and in need of a serious re-work.
Keys are even more lacklustre and are in desperate need of some sort of re-work. About the only thing a key is useful now is for identifying a solo-queue survivor on your team that's (most likely) going to be passive and hide all game, waits for everyone to die, and comes out of a locker at the end because they have a hatch challenge. With the upcoming buffs to killer end-game perks like Remember Me, maybe the keys can be used to unlock exit gates much faster.
Med-kits didn't really need a change a few months back. If they were a problem for you as a killer, it probably just meant you weren't committing to them (within reason... you're not going to chase one survivor all game). This holds even more true with the anti-heal killer perks that didn't see any sort of adjustment. Sloppy Butcher is just a pain. Miss one skill-check or have to run away for a sec? Too bad, your med-kit is useless now if you don't have add-ons to increase its usage. A happy medium? Nerf the two common-tiers of med-kits, but it seemed kind of silly to adjust the high-tier ones when the average survivor isn't going to come across them very often.
Now we're getting tool-kit nerfs. Sure, it's more specific with Brand New Parts, but it felt a little unnecessary (as did the Prove Thyself nerf) considering the buffs to gen-regression killer perks like Pop Goes the Weasel, Jolt, and Pain Resonance making a comeback. Early game is usually about the only serious generally-guaranteed pressure that survivors get, so it feels like a severely misguided change from Behaviour. The longer the game goes on, the higher the pressure generaly becomes for the killer. End-game is always very killer pressure-heavy especially with crutch perks like NOED, especially when paired up with No Way Out and Blood Warden (hey, another reason to re-work keys to open exit gates quickly).
Flashlights are really about the only somewhat reliable item which I won't speak more on.
3. COMBATING EGREGIOUS KILLER BEHAVIOUR
I want to (once again) preface this by saying I play killer about as much as I play survivor (since playing solo-survivor is just awful). So killer mains, you don't have to come for me with pitchforks. There's already some plans to introduce an anti-camping system for survivors which I'm happy to hear. Sure, once end-game commences, there's nothing else for a killer to do besides secure the kill, so I don't think survivors need to complain about camping at end-game. No further talk about that is needed.
There was also talk about baseline Unbreakable to combat slugging a while back. Why did that conversation fizzle out? I think it's still something to explore further. No, it wouldn't be unlimited Unbreakable attempts, it would be much like it exists now--you can get up once. So it's up to the survivor to use their "get-out-of-jail-free-card" wisely. Though I would say slugging is maybe the least of the three problematic egregious behaviours killers possess.
Tunneling is the last one. I'd say this is probably the most frustrating of the three but also the one that I really have no suggestions on when it comes to combating it. About the only thing I can think of is having the baseline Borrowed Time constantly renew itself if you continue to be chased while there is at least three survivors remaining. Though it's something that I'm sure could be abused. It's a suggestion nonetheless.
We killers really shouldn't have to rely on any of these behaviours to win since we have such a wide array of perks. A good killer won't even resort or rely on these anyway. It's kind of the unspoken rule that you don't resort to these. A killer resorting to these is just a textbook example of a poorly skilled killer. Really.
4. SHARED ADD-ONS
I think this final one might be a nice way to end my waaaay-too-long-of-a-post. This would likely be easier to implement for survivors, though I feel like if the coding for killer add-ons is how I think it is, it wouldn't be a lot of work to implement. It would just be great to have all survivor add-ons/belongings combined into one universal bank so you can play whatever survivor you want. This wouldn't apply to perks of course. If anything, it's probably even a financial gain to Behaviour if they implement this as more cosmetics would be sold. I know I'd be purchasing cosmetics for characters I think are cool but I don't play because they have nothing on them. And I know that if I feel this way, someone else out there shares a similar feeling.
When it comes to killers, I think that the killers add-ons are coded into their rarity types rather than the add-on names themselves as I think it keeps their work more simplistic and organized. There are usually more than one of the same rarity, so they're probably named like "UltraRare_1" and "UltraRare_2" or "Rare_1", "Rare_2", and "Rare_3", etc. I could be wrong though. Going on the assumption that this is the case, it should be feasible to still bank all of the killer add-ons together by the rarity type. Let's say you have 100 ultra-rare-1 add-ons, 80 ultra-rare-2 add-ons, 300 very-rare-1 add-ons, 275 very-rare-2 add-ons, etc. you'd still have that in your bank across all killers. Only the name of the items unique to that particular killer will change. It's kind of difficult to explain any simpler (especially at this hour), but I think this could be a great way for Behaviour to make some money on additional cosmetics and a way to potentially see more diversity amongst killers.
APOLOGIES FOR THE LONG POST.
I agree to most of this.
Tunneling is not necessary to do at 5 or 4 gens or when you have lots of pressure to begin with. But when I only have 2 hooks and 3 gens are done (even if I have quick chases), there is not much I can do besides tunneling if I want to have a chance of winning and not get BMed at the gates later.
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Also a veteran (over 6k hrs) here. I have been playing since Spirit came into the game, and your gameplay outcomes is basically me in both roles when I play.
I don't know how, but I still have fun with this game, while sometimes hating it at the same time.
I my early days I almost only played soloq and killer (50/50) but since they graced us with MMR I rarely play killer anymore and even more rarely soloq, because it's just a pain... As killer I either get the full meta swf with thousands of hrs combined or headless chicken. It often alternates exactly like that. Nothing in between like back in the day.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478253#Comment_3478253
in the bhvr version you could dodge lobbies all you want unless all players are in then it insta readies up.
am not sure how it is with the netease version cuz it's fairly new and i only tried it a few times but afair it's still the same except that they have a lobby screen with a timer just like the main game
It is still a great issue.
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@Sharby said:
With his bugs getting removed I think it'll be a lot better.
Also think the buff to his power hitbox should get reverted but that's just me.
Yes to the first, no to the second.
Why? Have you played him on the ptb? He hit every tiny Pixel. It felt horrible.
Like Blight when he would either slide off everything or hit tiny stuff that was barely there. Upon release your hitbox was so small you phased through survivors which felt horrible too. Now it is OK.
@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481044#Comment_3481044
I don't see why the Infection isn't cleansed after the survivor is hooked. Easy to program in and there really isn't much point to having a hooked survivor infected anyway.
Because it's so ez to remove as there are 12 charges and now you can tee it with you while having an item too.
Also removing it would massively nerf him as he would lose information and slowdown. All that is needed is that the infection is set to 1 charge and not 50 (of 100). You never chase someone the full 120s until a full infection anyway. If you get tunneled that long, the killer has lost at least 2 Gens.
@[Deleted User] said:
id personally like them to remove the hindered effect
Then nobody would cleanse. Therefore no.
@GensByDaylight said:
Yes killers can have strong things too.
We don't need to make Wesker a thing everyone screams needs a nerf.
Go make the 99th Blight is OP thread, at least it has logic in it.
Yes and no. Basekit Blight is OK, he has just 3 addons which are op.
That would be the same as saying Myers is OP, just because he has TS.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481044#Comment_3481044
i am fine with his tunnel ability being neutered only if they make wesker good in the chase vs pallet loops.
He is good in chase, just not so ez to use on many times. He is one of the Killer's with high skill ceiling.
@Chomperka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481059#Comment_3481059
he always was popular and always was considered one of the strongest killers
He has always been popular because he is FUN and because the last 3 killers all... lack something to put it mildly.
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I guess they forgot.
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Empty promises?
I was kinda hoping they will make it as a Jeff main...
I miss Iron Will, but it's valid only with MFT and I refuse to use MFT. So I just got used to being louder than killer.
Also Jeff Main here. Still using IW though as it saved me a lot.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383355/hex-plaything-need-to-be-changed
not just swf, I ignore it when playing solo as well as it's very likely it's being run with Pentimento as well, so I don't touch the totems.
Dito.
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@MikhailVictor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454874#Comment_3454874
didn't add a simple check for negative numbers
Bruh......
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@Stanbriggs67 said:
whats the point of the penalty then ? if you dc you get bot game carries on still 5 players game is not lost benefits the killer aswell
So that killers like Blight and Nurse do not play bot games 24/7.
Or any other killer that is disliked for that matter.
It just felt empty to play with just 2 real players on the ptb
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Many maps have the same tiles. Totems have only one spawn per tile. It is not so difficult learning these spots and approximating where the totem is based on those you already saw.
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It is implemented in the mobile version. But afaik in that case you can't just leave lobbies without closing the game.
In the main Version of DBD you can. Meaning that people will do lobby shopping even more frequently if they see someone bring bad perks (like No Mither or Self Care) or perks so they can do some challenge faster, meaning they are not necessarily productive.
I think a middle ground would be nice. That you can see the perks which are important to know and have no in-game indicator (Deliverance, Renewal, Autodidact, FTP, UB, Adre etc). Problem is that they would need people to decide if this is useful for the perk or not.
Alternatively you could shortly show the perks during the loading screen to prevent lobby shopping. But then you risk people DCing during the loading screen.
Sadly I think that this is not a good idea for the game because of said reasons.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473175#Comment_3473175
I understand where you are coming from.
In terms of your healthcare comment.. my rebuttal (statistically proven) is our healthcare, while not universally free, is unmatched in quality. Success rates in treatment are much higher here than places that have universal HC, not to mention much higher wait times. But that’s besides the point. All of it is free for me anyway. (I am military. Lol)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473293#Comment_3473293
I don’t care if you care. The same could be said for other things in the game that aren’t necessary.
But for the average Joe it's worse and that is what I'm interested in. I'm a grad chemistry student and therefore I need affordable healthcare just in case. You never know when some weird ######### happens lol.
There is also other stuff I really do not like about the US but that is not the point here.
And since this thread seems to have reacted virulently in an unexpected way I do what a chemist does in this case: better leave before it explodes. I would rather have the shards in my back than my front 😅
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472648#Comment_3472648
I did not know that. Thanks for sharing that with me.
I and many Americans strongly believe America is the greatest country in the world, and that’s where the patriotism stems from. It’s a privilege to be American, and it comes with a lot of rights and privileges that nobody else gets anywhere else.
I’d also LOVE a Texas Flag charm… but I won’t get into that. xD
Reading your comment praising the USA as the best country on earth just leaves a bad taste in my mouth as this is exactly how the bad stuff started here 90 years ago..... And imo thinking "that my country is the best" can very well lead to
intolerance, arrogance, ignorance and similar bad traits with the pinnacle being that you feel superior to everyone else. (Think of Wesker how he thought that he was the perfect human being, and had the right to become a god because of this.)
Nothing aginst the US per se, but I could point out some stuff that isn't exactly the best over there and is a lot better in other countries (not ideal but still).
For example: I really appreciate that I don't need to get broke to pay for medical procedures or have high debts so I can study here. Sure I would love to hold a firearm one time like you do, but at the same time I'm glad that guns are heavily restricted here, reducing school schootings and such drastically. Here you need a license and carrying any weapon in public is restricted too (I think only police and military is allowed to, but I think there are exceptions for other professions like security or hunters).
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471080#Comment_3471080
Oh really? I didn’t know that about Germany.
I don’t think it would bring politics. Many many games I play have all of the country flags available, and it’s never been an issue. People are there to play games, not beef over who comes from where. People talk sh*t in video games, but that’s going to happen flags or not.
I’m not going to make this about LGBT vs country flags, I just wish they would go all out with representation if that’s the route they want to go.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471099#Comment_3471099
Thank you! It is quite a fun day for Americans.
Yes. Patriotism is seen as part of the "dark times". Also we tend to feel more proud of our own actions or those of closest to us. We really don't care about what someone did in the other part of the country ages ago. Einstein, Goethe, Gauss, brothers Grimm, Liebig, or Koch all are famous and generally considered "good". Sure am I appreciating what they did, but why should I be proud to be German then because these people happened to be?
Also Germany was split in many tiny counties and principalities till 1871. The country did not even exist in today's entirety back then. So "national pride" was more local (often only as far as their own village or town) what it still is to this day. Bavarians are proud to be Bavarians and so on.
I for myself are proud to be neither from the Rhineland nor the Ruhr Discrict in Western German yet I'm still from both as my home town is right at the border of those areas and we were influenced by both. I am proud that the first cotton mill based on British design on the European main land was build in my town.
That type of patriotism is very common here. But national pride is only celebrated during the soccer world cup really. And even that only really started with us hosting the worldcup in 2006.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470481#Comment_3470481
That would be cool. I think everybody should be able to rep their country.
True, but honestly I probably would not use the German flag charm as patriotism is just... not as common here and generally seen as a bad thing (regional or local patriotism is a whole different story though 😅). Also the chances rise that someone will call you the n-word when seeing the flag. I already face this kind of stuff (rarely but still) because I have a German nickname on steam. Not sure if that would be a great idea.
Also RL politics could be brought to the game with this. Ukraine/Russia, China/Taiwan and similar conflicts would be brought here with this and I really think this should stay out.
I remember when people were harassed when they used the Pride charm a few years ago. All of this should stay out of the game tbh. Even if I appreciate the Devs for respecting diversity.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470403#Comment_3470403
Guess we don't see eye to eye on the topic bit I'm glad for the debate regardless.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470483#Comment_3470483
Actually I've always been behind perks like Decisive, Borrowed and the like, as well as the current anti-tunneling mechanics to be introduced to his cages (on the condition perks be added for him that work with his cages too). On top of that I'd argue Wesker is still better at tunneling due to the 8% speed debuff.
My post was actually meant sarcastic. I've seen some posts that claim that Wesker needs a nerf because he can tunnel well, but everyone seems to forget that PyH can do that very well too and imo even better than him because he can ignore any in-game anti-tunnel mechanics. Wesker still needs to eat any OTR, DS, or DH, PyH does not if done well. Huntress, Hag, Bubba and Billy can camp very well, Oni and Twins are supreme sluggers and Knight and SM are super for 3-gens. Do they all need a nerf then because they "promote a not fun tactic"? Obviously not.
All killers tunnel btw. It is just that you notice it with Wesker more since he seems to be in a lot of your matches (Can we swap? I want more Wesker's but I only get Nemesis or Huntress atm). Before certain killers are nerfed because of these tactics, these tactics should be made less viable first.
As a Wesker Main I would only do either of 2 things (maybe both) to nerf the ability to tunnel withou
1. Remove killer instinct from the sprays. This gives you the opportunity to remove the infection when Wesker is near without having to fear that he will come for you again if he is unoccupied.
2. Reduce the infection upon getting hooked to 1%. This resets the timer until you get the 8% debuff to 120s. This would give you a looong time until it takes effect even if BT, OTR, DS or DH get used. If you get tunneled that hard your team has enough time to do gens. There is no need to remove it completely as there are enough spays available. This would be a heavy and unnecessary nerf as well.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468722#Comment_3468722
Wesker's power promotes tunneling. Need I say more?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469836#Comment_3469836
Other than the fact that his power promotes tunneling but whatever you say.
Then obviously PyH also needs a nerf since he is the best tunneler ever. But I guess you don't complain about him because you obly get one PyH in 30 matches.