Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I could see them adding the Teletubbies Sun looking down upon us on Cornwind Farms
I did complain about daytime in Coldwind not being scary enough. Would serve me right… 😨
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803531#Comment_3803531
Wait, you can be locked out of those questions?
In surveys like these, if you select something like "I did not play Lights Out", then you won't be shown any of the questions asking you about your experience with Lights Out and it'll skip that section.
The one with the licenses looks like it might just be a random sample, though.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
Am I misreading the question? How has mft not been mentioned yet? Too much trauma?
I think the reason is that while there's been a lot of hated survivor perks, MFT and Buckle Up/FTP and CoH and Mettle of Man… their reign of terror is just too short in the collective lifespan of obnoxious perk PTSD when Decisive Strike lasted in a state every killer despised for close to half DBD's existence, and Dead Hard held that title for even longer. It's hard to compete with that level of entrenched loathing.
Killer perks have been more subject to a whack-a-mole meta and there aren't as many contenders for ones that remained meta forever, though Old Ruin is up there, and NOED is probably the king of lifetime survivor rage.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803506#Comment_3803506
Same. I did get a free text question for one franchise however.. obviously i didnt know Teletubbies was on the menu!
Pretty much every survey has some questions like this. Which makes sense for stuff like experience with newly introduced content or events but i don’t get why this kind of question would only be there for selected participants?
Yeah, I got the free text question too, but getting licenses from a list is a lot more interesting because it implies there's some licenses DBD already has its eye on. And teletubbies, apparently. (And the teletubbies has me going 🤔 because this is exactly how we ended up with a dating sim…)
The only thing I said no to was the Casting of Frank Stone, so it's pretty weird if that one locked me out of licenses. Had plenty of feedback about Castlevania and Lights Out.
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For some reason, I didn't even get that part of the survey. Which annoys me, because I 100% would have selected Hellsing Ultimate.
Teletubbies, though. Some things are too frightening for DBD.
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I'm not liking new Zanshin. It's too much on killers who don't really need to break all but the strongest pallets. Anyone who can hit over a pallet is dangerous with it, but Pyramid Head especially can just sit and snipe at every jungle gym. And unlike Weave Attunement, which is another full on wallhacks perk, Zanshin doesn't tell the survivor the killer has it, so they don't know the area is un-mindgameable.
Not a good addition to make in the same breath they're nerfing Distortion, which could have at least tipped you off.
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I was just thinking that! We could get offerings for weather, and the moonlight offerings could be adapted for day/night cycles.
As long as they balance them so that things can't get as absurdly dark as they could once and the lighting is customised for every map, I don't see an issue with it. I can't imagine it'll be as bad as it was in the past - the fog has been greatly nerfed since then.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803244#Comment_3803244
I'm still confused on the debuff.
If two people are working on a single gen with no gen perks the bar is red.
However, the gen will get repaired quicker, correct? Less than the usual 90 seconds if a solo Survivor did it? It certainly feels faster.
Yes, and that's why it's often still worth it to work with survivors even without perks. You only really start feeling the loss of efficiency when a third and a fourth survivor are added to the equation - four unbuffed survivors on a gen is barely better than three.
Technically, more gen progress gets done when all four survivors are on separate gens, but a completed gen is invulnerable to regression and so whether stacking is 'worth it' is situational regarding how occupied the killer is, what perks they have, and whether or not a certain gen's location makes it important to complete.
Your bar only tracks your individual speed. You can look at it like this. For healing, which does not have a multiple-survivor penalty attached like repair does, you can have two survivors on a heal with no buffs or debuffs to healing, and their bars will display blue (normal progress) while the healed survivor is healed at double speed, because progress is additive for all survivors contributing to an action.
So when repairing a gen in a pair, your bar will display red unless you have enough repair speed affecting perks to offset the -15% penalty. Resilience alone (9%, for 94%) will still show red, but Resilience + Deja Vu (9+6=15%, for 100%) will be blue and Resilience + Prove Thyself (9+10=19%, for 104%) will be yellow. But no matter what perks you're running, the gen still goes faster because there are two survivors contributing to it at reduced rates instead of one survivor contributing to it at normal or even buffed rates.
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Yes, yellow progress bar means it's being sped past the normal rate.
Prove Thyself is red because it's a 10% boost that doesn't entirely offset the 15% penalty, but it's still quite worth it.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803132#Comment_3803132
To be fair players hide when it's 2 v 1 anyway, they know hatch is an option so it puts the game in a stand off position where survivors don't do gens (because what's the point?). They hide and hope the other player gets found and killed first. I don't see how removing the hatch would make this any worse because the result of removing the hatch is already happening with the hatch as an option. If anything removal of the hatch would mean there is no good reason for survivors to hide while refusing to do gens (other than to deliberately hold up the game) so might actually benefit the game.
While it happens, both survivors hard hiding and forcing me to waste 5+ minutes finding them is rare in my experience. Most players are willing to engage.
If there was no hatch, you would see mass giving up whenever someone dies at 3 or earlier gens, whenever there's an afk survivor, whenever someone gets tunneled, etc. Which is extremely boring for both the other survivors and the killer. The possibility of hatch encourages survivors to keep competing when their objective is otherwise improbable instead of hurrying on to the next, potentially winnable game, or refusing to play out of spite. Yes, people already do these things… but you underestimate the potential of things to get worse.
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Slugging for hatch is extremely boring and it's bad game design that it's incentivized, but as long as challenges and achievements (and now mori offerings…) ask for a 4k, killers don't really have any choice but to try and work around the coin flip that can instantly lose them a game they won in every other respect.
Hatch has to exist, or survivors would always hide or give up as soon as a game started going poorly, but it consistently screws over the killer for winning.
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For killer: Eruption. I've never come to hate a perk more. Incapacitated should never be applied outside of chase and that perk was a special kind of hell-design that punished solos with half a minute of forced uselessness and let SWFs skate on by. And it encouraged a 3-gen meta that was capped off by the arrival of Knight and then Skull Merchant. Half your games were a killer running Call of Brine/Overcharge/Eruption and solo queue had rarely been more miserable.
For survivor: I'm gonna say old Decisive Strike was worse than Dead Hard. Not even the original incarnation that was just a middle finger to every killer, but the version that didn't have conspicuous actions and provided one minute of immunity after a survivor got unhooked. People would greed gens or show up to bodyblock a chase with 10s left on their timer, and it was so common to get stabbed out of nowhere. People can still use DS aggressively, but they can't progress the game if they want to do that. Back then, every survivor packed it and played hardball, and you had to keep a mental timer of when everyone got unhooked.
And Boil Over gets a special mention for being hated by everyone in the week or so it went to live. It was wild, the number of games where I saw survivors helping the killer catch the Boil Overer before they could get upstairs or teaming up to get rid of the Exponential totem because they were so sick of trolls who weren't playing the game.
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Friends 'til the End is powerful, but BBQ and Chili? Seriously? Leave my boy alone, he's suffered enough over the years. Some of the healthiest perk design this game has ever had.
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I think it would be an enormous improvement that would help immensely with both perceived fairness and frustration/tilt against the people we're matched against, but with two problems.
-Scratched Mirror Myers is dead if he can't bring an indoor map. And that man deserves to thrive. It's Lights Out mode, but actually fun. Most of the time, killers bringing map offerings to synergize with builds is obnoxious - Nurse on Midwich, impossible skill check Doctor on the Game - but Myers needs the map guarantee to have a fair match.
-Outbreak Breakout achievement is now an order of magnitude worse than it already is.
With the current state of map balance, pregame map selection is fine as long as all five players agree on the map. (Add laugh track here.)
Honestly… there's times I find myself entering a game with a hostile mindset against a team that ends up being perfectly inoffensive, but I hit the ground in a three-point crouch and rained bloody retribution because I saw a Badham or RPD offering and got PTSD, and the 'nam flashbacks only start to wear off when I realize I've pasted some clueless solos at four gens left. And as survivor, when I see the killer burn a Midwich offering, I instantly dread whatever the game is going to offer. And I know I'm not alone in this. There's so much built-up abuse that it causes people to interpret map offerings as an attack by the other side. Not a marker of a healthy game mechanic.
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I think Deep Rifts were their attempt to strike a balance of the allure of FOMO without gating any unique content, which had proven controversial in the past for this same reason. The whole thing was that the then-new Rift outfit would come back a year or so after the battlepass, but the Deep Rift recolor would stay unique to the people who finished the battlepass.
It's better than completely retiring the outfit, but it's still bad, especially in a case like this where the blue-black recolor is much better looking and the character doesn't have a lot of outfits to choose from. Renato is a relatively new survivor (feb 2023?) and hasn't had that many releases yet.
Rooting for you that they return Deep Rift outfits in some way. I'd give you mine if I could.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802609#Comment_3802609
I've said it before and I said it again. I love killers (like Pig) who can bring the community together through positivity rather than tearing one another down.
Oh, one hundred percent. Main reason I love playing Ghostface so much. Pig too, but she makes me scream internally whenever I get a sweet summer child who doesn't know they need to take the trap off. The charades I've played trying to rescue newbies from my own devices…
But there's something magical when players momentarily set aside the rules of internet tag to acknowledge something silly or weird together, or decide to take a risk reaching across the aisle to try something fun. Reminds that we're not survivors or killers, we're all just horror lovers playing a video game together in the end.
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Had another match. Bardic Inspiration Yun-Jin who insisted on obedience training whenever the dog bit someone. Kept getting in my way waggling 'no.'
I guess pubby is just that powerful. On the one hand, I love it, but on the other hand, this is going to murder my MMR. Shenanigans are my weakness.
…I do love that this community consistently decides the most terrifying creatures are adorable and their pet now. First the lamprey-jawed monster from the Upside Down became our dog, then the ultimate predator organism born via chestbursting became our cat, and now we're frantically petting the immortal vampiric lord of darkness and calling him the goodest boy. Newest Castlevania game be lookin' kinda different.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692310#Comment_3692310
Lol Chucky is #2, Bubba is #1 and I've never had a Skull Merchant do that to me. My experience alone of course.
I've barely seen any toxic Bubbas ever since the AFC measures. He used to be the undisputed king of toxic killers, the mascot of people who played DBD to troll, probably followed by Skull Merchant and Wraith, but I think he's lost his crown.
I imagine Chucky appeals to toxic players because he relentlessly trash talks whoever's in front of him in lieu of voice chat letting people do that themselves.
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I'm really excited to see her get an outfit in a random set! I was very disappointed when she released with what she did, because her and Baermar have one of the coolest gimmicks possible - not only allowing for theoretically any number of different characters - and races! give me a tiefling survivor! give me a dragonborn - but allowing you to mix and match outfit pieces between those different characters. It's absolutely wild, and between that and the fantasy race potential, I was ready to buy me some outfits… but they really didn't release with very much. The only part that really caught my eye was the laureate cap. And that was a shame, because they don't even suffer from the licensed character curse of only having a few officially sanctioned looks to appear in. The characters are homebrew, they just belong to a licensed IP.
So I'm super glad that WOTC hasn't forgotten about them and that we may get more outfits trickling in.
(still quietly begging WOTC to give her some Baldur's Gate legendaries, I will empty my wallet faster than the human eye can track)
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They've gotten most of the licenses I wanted (and can rightly be called horror instead of just horror-adjacent), but a Clock Tower chapter or a Haunting Ground one would be excellent.
And Friday the 13th, obviously.
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@TheArbiter said:
BHVR said themselves the reason they removed it was to prevent lobby shopping
OP is talking about pre-lobby, though. It's a lobby you only see if you're putting together a SWF. No harm in showing prestiges there.
@Belzher said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802172#Comment_3802172
What you mean by lobby shopping?
Lobby shopping is when you leave a lobby to get better looking teammates or weaker looking opponents, based on prestige, cosmetics, held items, and certain signs that might signify a SWF.
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🌷
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801875#Comment_3801875
I think they need to change it (Mori offerings) to something like this: 150-200% more bloodpoints for killers only.
Honestly what is 30k even? It's way too low for a 4k requirement.
Yeah. In a match where I 4k, unless I won the game really quickly or mass slugged, I most likely have a score around or above 30k anyway. We have yellow, green, and event offerings that double your score no matter what - those are just categorically better than an offering that will give you a comparable boost of bloodpoints only if you win the game and only if the last survivor doesn't nab hatch.
In my ideal world, moris give bloodpoints and let you death-hook mori survivors. Actually, what if it was a bloodpoint boost for the killer and also for any survivors that got moried? Like ebony does what it does now but gives the killer a stacking 50% bonus bloodpoints for every mori they get, and also a non-stacking 50% bonus bloodpoints for the survivors who got moried? Make survivors crave that sweet cinematic kill. I've seen complaints about people bringing moris during events to be toxic, and while I think complaints about the toxicity of moris are about four years too late, this would pretty neatly put a pin in that.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801866#Comment_3801866
Devour Hope and Rancor still have their Mori abilities intact.
I am glad for that, especially because the previous finisher mori changed them too. But I'd prefer to have ebony moris. DH is unreliable and Rancor is pretty situational, even if it's the better pick for any possible memeing (survivors are often too scared to risk hit-and-running a fully stacked DH killer unless they've given up.)
And the proposed changes to the mori offerings make them completely outclassed by survivor puddings. I just don't see the necessity of changing them, minus the cypress mori which has been made basekit.
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Moris appearing in every match regardless of offering is great. I love the idea. We need to see more moris.
However, I can't support removing moris from the match when survivors can actually interact with them. I do not like the idea of making moris only possible once everyone is dead. People goofing off remains my favorite part of this game and moris were always an avenue for this. Whether that's people diving in for Ghostface selfies, forming a ritual ring around Pinhead sending someone to Brazil, slapping Myers' ass, stealing Trickster's autograph card, or someone playing me a song on the world's tiniest Bardic Inspiration while I'm chopped into pieces, nothing makes mori-ing or getting moried more fun for me than another player running in to photobomb the brief invulnerability period the cinematic provides them, and I don't want to lose that.
I don't know why we can't have the finisher mori and just leave ebony/ivory mori offerings alone.
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Not only that, because you're spot on about incentivizing slugging for the 4k and just losing the fun that in-match moris provide… but those rewards are inferior to just using a survivor pudding.
If I get a 4k? Unless everyone died on first hook, my score is likely 30k+ anyway. I would never use an iridescent offering that will maybe give me 30k if I perform perfectly and beat the dice roll of hatch when I can use a yellow or green offering that will double my score no matter what, which might give me more than 30k even if I don't get the 4k. And the green/ivory rewards of 20/10k are firmly alongside satchets and wreaths in the "I would never use this unless I had no other offerings to burn, and I have thousands of offerings."
I don't want bloodpoint mori offerings. It's a conversion of a unique offering type into an oversaturated one, and it incentivizes slugging for the 4k, which is universally disliked. But to make bloodpoint mori offerings worthwhile in the first place, they need to offer enough to make the risk factor actually worth it. These do not.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801824#Comment_3801824
I'm not even sure why we're really arguing this. What incentive does anyone have to not pick Killers that can't track well? Why wouldn't people pick Killers that help them track in this mode? The Devs even actively encouraged it with the first reveal of Lights Out in February, the Killer played as the Legion.
As you point out here, Killers being stronger if they have basekit tracking in this mode is intentional. Candelabras also provide basekit tracking for Survivors. There is no imbalance, there is no issue anymore. Use the candelabras.
I'm arguing because you seem to be in denial that your favorite killer fundamentally breaks this mode and that what he can do is neither balanced nor healthy. Dredge is even more of an issue than he is, but imo, if they don't ditch Lights Out completely, he and Myers are second in line for oversight in this mode. When a handful of killers are so meta nobody will play anything else, you have a very clear game design problem. I mean. Lights Out is a problem because many people don't find it fun anyway, but the best killers for it all bypass the thing that's supposed to balance out the survivors being blind and lost. (Or they're Dredge, who makes the blind and lost part worse.)
Like… if you had a game mode that everyone was half running speed, Slow Mode, everyone would play Nurse or Hag, with a few sprinkled Singularities and Billies and Knights. And that's not because it's Nurse and Hag's time to shine, it's because their power breaks the idea of the mode and they aren't that affected by the drawback while that same drawback still penalizes their opponents.
Candelabras aren't an equivalent? Candelabras don't tell me where the killer is. They tell the killer where I am. I can use one to check that most of the other survivors are also running around lost and only one person has found a gen, but carrying them around is one of the worst decisions a survivor can make. Best thing you can do is put it on a gen, or put it behind a wall so the killer will waste time investigating.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801809#Comment_3801809
That's honestly what I do as a Ghostface Main, the mode IS very easy for him and I won't deny that, so I have been being pretty damn nice and even letting people go.
I genuinely want to spook people so I'm playing the Stealth Killers I love because extra spooky, I don't see an issue with them having better stealth than normal because of that.
Ghostface is good because he can just swivel into the darkness with his power until someone's icon starts lighting up, and he can find people when he shouldn't be able to.
He can literally always do that. On every dark or indoor map. The info from being Revealed is part of his power, always has been, and a good Ghostface can use that outside the mode too - or is just never caught because they run Shroud cooldown addons. This point is moot.
Of course Ghostface can always do that. I've done that plenty of times. But it rarely matters in normal DBD. It's a neat bonus if there's a bunch of fog offerings or the survivors have blendy outfits and aren't moving, but for the most part… I can use my eyes and just see people.
In a mode where you can only see an arm's length in front of you, the ability to locate people that do not have a solid obstacle between you and them, but you did not actually see, becomes a lot more important.
I don't know how to emphasize more that in a mode where the point is that you can't see anything, and is balanced around not being able to see anything, having a power that ignores the darkness and goes "hey someone's over there" is really strong. It is not a moot point when everyone is picking him for that reason.
Legion's power has to find someone first before they can find anyone else. Doctor and Artist alert you that the killer knows where you are. Ghostface and Myers can find you from afar without you knowing anything about it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801805#Comment_3801805
If it's BGM you're after may I present the full Akira Yamaoka remix
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCUomjSbrmnHkcVfUpHdNJHlsFj3N9NMo&si=VzTyqu2je9IW1fAw
…Excuse me. Why isn't this in the game.
https://youtu.be/tKivDI0NIyw?si=oWYEOx_V-mvOCYMFI'd never heard these and now I'm stricken with a powerful yearning. Double-edged sword. But my respect for Akira Yamaoka just shot up off the charts. You don't often see that kind of genuine enthusiasm or investment in collaborations.
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@Coordi said:
All Kill still wins for the aesthetic and music.
all kill map based on the lobby when 😭
https://youtu.be/mtxMs6FRtBI?si=DnNTzXIAqcHMqFWj@GoodBoyKaru said:
I mean, Silent Hill is just never being beaten I'm afraid. Akira Yamaoka himself remixing everything was insane, but the Silent Hill lobby music is just too good. Michel F April collabing with Akira Yamaoka was the best things to happen to DBD music and this is a hill I am willing to die on.
I may be biased because I main Pyramid Head, but I've never actually played a Silent Hill game (yet). And I mean - just listen. It speaks for itself.
Yeah. I'm not gonna fight you on that (silent) hill. I walk up to your hill and pay my respects. The Silent Hill DBD theme is legendary. The hollow, windy flute over that same kind of grindy, dirge-like drumbeat… the vibes are immaculate.
Thanks for the link, I needed some good BGM and that's one of my favorites for good reason.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801756#Comment_3801756
That's just a Ghostface thing tbh. The reveal system is jank. Always has been. Unknown actually has the same issue.
Stop being mad that Killers have synergy with things, they're allowed to. It's not okay to ban Killers just because they do well in one little mode that is only a week in length. It's also okay to have some Killers be better than others at a modifier, especially when they are normally just a pretty balanced low B to high C Killer that isn't problematic.
It's kind of an issue when the killer bypasses the main handicap of the modifier. Ghostface isn't good in Lights Out because he can stalk the survivor when they can't see him and instadown, or because his reveal system is janky. Ghostface is good because he can just swivel into the darkness with his power until someone's icon starts lighting up, and he can find people when he shouldn't be able to.
When my games weren't against Dracula, the tome challenge killer, they were Dredge or Ghostface. Always. Had two Myers and one Doctor. I did not face a single killer who wasn't Dracula and didn't have some kind of synergy with the mode.
Ghostface is one of my favorite killers to play and I have nothing against him. However, the killer balance in this mode was not thought out and it makes the experience of playing it very unenjoyable, because players will always gravitate towards their strongest options, and in this case that meant using clearly unintentional game mechanics to either bypass the mode's penalties or compound them for the opponent. Same way a solid third of the survivors I was matched with or versed were Claudettes wearing her darkest outfits.
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@CleanseThis said:
Just make in-game chat a thing already jeezz and buff killer accordingly. It's not difficult, games have been doing it for years.
On the one hand, yes, but on the other, I don't trust this community with anything more than a quickchat wheel of prewritten responses. Voice chat would be fun for exactly five minutes until it became a parade of slurs and screaming adolescents and people blowing into their mic and hearing people's background music echo three times into a bad mic for the entire game. BHVR is already poor at in-game moderation and they're not ready to handle this.
And yeah, to the OP, the problem is that most SWFs are casual friend groups that don't play noticeably better than solos, so any flat nerfs to SWFs punishes a healthy group of players before it hurts the 4stacks with jacked items and complementary perks who actually need the nerf. It's better to try and elevate solo queue to the level of information SWF gets for free, and then balance the game around that. They've already boosted solo quite a ways in this direction, though there's still plenty of room for improvement.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801579#Comment_3801579
No problem, my friend! Glad you liked it!
Unfortunately, I wasn't around for it in 2017. I first heard it watching videos from Freddy's release, and I did get to hear it in-game when they brought it back. I have another piece of the past to share with ya, and this one is really special to me.
The Winter theme, the one I heard when I first booted up this game:
Dang, that winter theme is fantastic. Brilliant how they used church bells as an instrument, and that slow drumbeat is ominous as all hell. …I'm honestly getting genocide route Undertale vibes, though that may be as much the wintry backdrop as it is the slow heartbeat of death they've got going on in the background. What a time to have joined.
The one I heard when I first loaded into DBD was Lunar New Year 2021. Not one I have an especial lot of thoughts about, but I remember being confused when the event ended and the music changed back to the true DBD theme.
https://youtu.be/h62kFjOpz64?si=7W39GTXowVlzBmn0 -
@humanbeing1704 said:
https://youtu.be/kEl2AKfX2Kk?si=qXkb33zQncRDR7Fj
The old anniversary menu music which was a dbdified happy birthday
Whoops misread the post this said lobby music lol
Either one works! Most of the menu musics are also the killer's lobby music, and the ones that aren't are all the more precious because they disappear when they're gone. That's another one I never got the chance to hear!
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
Favorite?… Oh that’s so difficult. Castlevania is very hard to beat, it’s known for its music. But…
The All-Kill Trickster menu music scares me. But in a good way. Ha I’m getting chills just thinking about it.
All-Kill's theme was such a bop. Jammy and ominous in equal measure. And the lobby it came with… I'm still sad we didn't get a map like that, all neon signs and dark alleys.
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Oooh… I was never here for this one. That is deliciously eerie. Love the grindy twanging and the three-note descent after the first Dies Irae. Thank you for sharing this piece of the past!
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Those teams are very annoying, but they're hardly the staple of your average match. You will virtually never see flashlight bombing or sabo swarms outside SWFs, and it's a very particular type of SWF that has no intention of winning games and plays DBD for sick montage plays. Survivors that are chasing you around waiting for you to down their friend aren't doing gens and you have more time to kill them than regular teams.
Looking at a wall isn't always possible (or they went down under a pallet.) The easy answer is to fake a pickup and then swat away whoever charges in for the save, but if they're too smart to snowball that way, that's when mass slugging and pretending to leave the survivor to chase someone else but doubling back is the way to go. If it's really becoming an issue, bring Lightborn when you see too many flashlights in the lobby, and train yourself not to go for pickups immediately unless you know that all potential rescuers are out of position. In particular, if a survivor with a flashlight drops a pallet over a downed survivor, do not break the pallet; more often than not they're trying to dumbtech you and you'll get a free hit if you just wait a second.
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I'll always fondly remember the match between Team Eternal and cm9i. Legendary moment in DBD history.
https://youtu.be/VwzJRAJVi7E?si=KpUjZRAIoQWyGgF5My own memories… there was one time I got paired with a 3-man who brought CoH/Dark Theory/Shadow Step/Exponential and we ended up pasting a slugging Skull Merchant with it, and that revenge felt amazing. But I'm gonna be honest, outside of her release, I don't think I've ever versed a Skull Merchant who wasn't playing the heel. Can't remember any friendly or silly ones. Best I can do is a few inoffensive ones who played like a perfectly ordinary killer during her tome challenge.
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I just really don't like the mode. I dislike it on both sides, but survivor felt especially bad for three reasons.
One: Your killer is either playing Dracula, which is fine and fun, or they're playing a stalk killer or Dredge, which is not fun. I got decent at dealing with Ghostface and using sound cues to locate him even when he isn't visible, but there isn't anything I can do about Myers being able to locate me blind from 40m away and then swoop out of the darkness with a zero-TR instadown, or Dredge turning the screen into a black void for 60 seconds at a time, and doing it constantly because survivors have a lot of trouble with healing.
Two: It brings back the old solo queue issue of "I have no earthly idea what anyone is doing." I was very glad to leave those days behind and I don't want them back. Candelabras technically help with that, but two issues: you can only check what anyone's doing when you aren't doing anything yourself, and they make it so much easier for the killer to track you. It's better not to carry one.
Three: You're even more lost than the killer is. The killer at least has the points of interest highlighted for them. I wasted so much time running around blindly and going in circles because I couldn't find anything, particularly in zones where gens were already completed. And the EGC was a mess. Even when I was playing killer and patrolling gates, it was terribly common for the survivors who didn't open the gate to take close to the end of the EGC to escape because they had no idea where anything was.
Personally I'd say to scrap the mode entirely. I liked the tension every time the killer wasn't chasing someone else, but DBD just isn't balanced around a mode without proper chases and the players adapt by playing scummy (mass camping and hiding), which isn't fun for anyone. DBD is at its most fun when the killer is constantly getting into chases and the survivor is constantly doing something, and Lights Out involves too much time running around lost feeling like you're losing the game by inaction.
But to improve the gameplay within the mode, I think survivors need more information and certain killer powers need to be rebalanced for the mode or banned. Do that and I'd be fine with nerfing the gen speeds, though I'd still not want to play it unless forced to.
Honestly, the killer powers need to be rebalanced either way. Wraith has virtually no power beyond fast map traversal because the mainstay of his power is already provided by the mode. Vecna sabotages himself by existing because the chest items still provide survivors with aura reading, so they know where he is any time he uses his power. And killers like Legion and Artist have baked-in locating tools that remove the mode's main difficulty for killers - I used Artist for the latter half of my killer challenges and being able to monitor gens and see which direction survivors fled gave me so much more info than my Dracula games.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800895#Comment_3800895
This, this is nice. This Plague talk. It’s very refreshing ;)
Playing Plague is practically guaranteeing everyone who isn't in chase with you gets an Adrenaline pop at the end of the game - survivors can heal almost whenever they want.
Yes big time. End game is more difficult for her definitely.
You can go from having 2 fountains and everyone infected to no fountains and everyone healthy, and all you get out of it is a Corrupt Purge with a vague idea of where someone might be if you saw the last fountain disappear
Mhm yup. The teams that commit to staying cleansed usually do pretty well.
And I have the hardest time with survivors who I'm trying to fully infect, and instead of weaving around obstacles, they bullrush me and start spinning around me in circles. Instant L. Can't deal with that camera frippery, have to take the M1 and deal with the distance.
🤭 I know exactly what you’re talking about.
These are things you don't need to be in a SWF to pull off, you just need to know about them. But people seem to struggle counterplaying Plague because it's a bunch of "if the game state is this, do this" rules instead of a simple mandate like "never cleanse."
You’re right. The counter play is like one step too much. Which is too bad because I love playing against Survivors that know how to play against her.
Have you ever noticed or experienced “pandemic” waves? Where you cause a huge mass infection, you get a lot of corrupt, the infection dies off, and you finally run out of corrupt ready to start the “wave” over? Some games I can get about two waves, sometimes three. It’s so thrilling and fast paced. I can’t get enough lol.
One of my favorite things about playing Plague is this trance you get into where you become highly efficient at corrupt fountain pathing. It feels like I’m performing forbidden sacred geometry over the map like a spell or something lol. I was so fascinated with this feeling/concept that I created a build around it. Batteries included is the anchor perk that the build is made around. The build is Batteries Included, Fire Up, Thanatophobia, and Noed.
It’s meant to make her more…idk…demonic as the ritual, I’m sorry trial, goes on. She’s usually weak at end game but this build kind of turns that on its head. I call this build The Apocalypse 💀
Plague talk! From one Adiris afficionado to another. I love it.
Yeah, I'm really prone to that. I have a particular… game plan, I suppose, that ticks me to try and hook 3-4 different survivors before I start using my fountains (good opportunities notwithstanding), and unless I have a team of Nurgle worshippers, I'll usually be nearing my fountain limit by the time I start going for it. Between that and the sick unhooks after I mow people down, after 2 or 3 Corrupts, they've been reset and everyone's healthy, so I have to go infect everyone all over again. I always thought that was poor game management on my part, but at the same time, I rarely struggle with it, it takes a coordinated team to truly capitalize on this - and there's benefits to infecting everyone again, because spreading it via gens and unhooks gives you excellent information on where survivors are. Usually it's two waves for me; they have to be insane cleansers to get three.
That's largely because of my build - it's been shaken up by some of the semi-recent perk nerfs (rip STBFL, you are missed), but my mainstay is Plaything. God, I love Plaything on Plague. It does everything. It encourages cleanses, it gives you easy hits on one-taps, and it deals with the problem that survivors get really skittish once you activate Corrupt Purge. Can't flee at the first sound of a terror radius if I don't have one. Add in Discordance so you can go "target acquired" and you can pull off a lot of ambushes. She can make good use of most Undetectable perks, I've even played with Dark Devotion and it's very fun (though I think other killers can use it slightly better), but Plaything's become my mainstay.
Ooh, the themes. Loving the Apocalypse Build… Thana was made for her (and it's another way to force people to cleanse) and I love Fire Up and Batteries Included on principle, but NOED is hilarious as an uno reverse card after everyone cleanses, and helpfully reveals their last known location, at the endgame. You thought you were safe… but the gods demand their sacrifice.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800867#Comment_3800867
1 Million percent yes! I believe it is a knowledge issue. But also, an issue with impatience. The teams that do best against me are the teams that play very meticulous, careful and patient. I believe the patience part is where most people are going wrong against her. At least that’s my experience playing against Survivors.
What Survivors who are inexperienced against her go wrong is that they don’t know how OP cleansing is. You can force her to waste time by making her hit you without infection. Get infected then go heal a free health state.
Yeah! People can get free heals off the hook by touching a sick gen and cleansing (and it's not uncommon for people to be uninfected if you just had a Corrupt Purge spree.) Playing Plague is practically guaranteeing everyone who isn't in chase with you gets an Adrenaline pop at the end of the game - survivors can heal almost whenever they want. And coordinated cleanse teams can destroy you. You can go from having 2 fountains and everyone infected to no fountains and everyone healthy, and all you get out of it is a Corrupt Purge with a vague idea of where someone might be if you saw the last fountain disappear (and weren't spinning around in panic when the fountains start flying, like I usually do.)
And I have the hardest time with survivors who I'm trying to fully infect, and instead of weaving around obstacles, they bullrush me and start spinning around me in circles. Instant L. Can't deal with that camera frippery, have to take the M1 and deal with the distance.
These are things you don't need to be in a SWF to pull off, you just need to know about them. But people seem to struggle counterplaying Plague because it's a bunch of "if the game state is this, do this" rules instead of a simple mandate like "never cleanse."
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800660#Comment_3800660
Every kill rate BHVR uses for stats completely discards any games with a disconnect. They aren't even included in their calculations.
Which means that the kill rates that players experience are largely going to be higher than the kill rates BHVR publishes, especially if disconnects against certain killers are more common.
On the flipside, they count games where a player suicides on first hook when a human observer is quite aware that game was rigged from the start and wasn't a real indicator of killer strength. This is why Skull Merchant just got nerfed.
Both Pinhead and Plague are unpopular killers (to play and to face) with relatively high quit on sight rates (though nothing on Skull Merchant), and I would argue their kill rates are also inflated above their 'real' effectiveness because inexperienced survivors destroy themselves. Pig is also in this category, a player who doesn't know how traps work automatically dies, but she enjoys less of the dubious benefit of killing the team through uncoordination. Pinhead gets unbelievable pressure from either everyone going for the box or nobody going for it, and one person being a hypochondriac lets Plague nuke everyone else (and occasionally the reverse, if the team is doing a decent job staying clean and one person keeps infecting everything and getting one-tapped and needing rescue.) Nerfing killers that survivors widely perform badly against is rough business because it doesn't make the survivors who don't know how to play against that killer any better, it just makes it harder for the killer to compete with survivors who do know the counterplay.
I'm more worried about Pinhead than Plague in this regard, because Plague is actually strong enough to hold her ground against coordinated survivors. Pinhead isn't.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800769#Comment_3800769
I dont believe that to be true. You lose 20 seconds on your power even if you collect it from a fountain regardless if you lose a gen, but you still have to lose a whole gen for it to take effect. I'd say that is a huge cost.
Eh. In practice, it feels like getting it for free. Yes, gens being done means survivors are progressing their objective, but it's a rare game where you don't lose any gens, and you save a lot of time when you get a Corrupt Purge without having to detour. Of course, sometimes it's wasted and two gens pop in succession, or it procs at a time you didn't want it and don't have any targets. Which is why her one yellow addon that decreases the amount of pools available is so unbelievably bad. But in practice, it's quite strong, turns a race to a nearly completed gen into a win-win (either you stop it or you have your power on the fleeing survivors), combos extremely well with perks like Bitter Murmur, and you get an average of 3-5 more Corrupt Purges than you usually would. That is strong.
The tradeoff is that Corrupt Purge lasts for less time, so you're unlikely to manage multiple downs with it unless you got lucky and caught two survivors together at the start. Personally I think Black Incense is the stronger iri addon.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
Honestly Bhvr could turn Plague into an M1 Killer with no power and I’d still play as her. She’s just way way too cool to not use.
You know, I could actually live with that? I mean, I'd rage about all my muscle memory going down the drain, but I have a gazillion gorgeous outfits on Plague I want to show the world because she is so pretty, lady doesn't just get a dozen flashy robes and crowns but gets to be a wholeass mermaid if she feels like it… but I've leaned away from playing her recently because people just don't want to verse her. I don't like being greeted with DCs. :(
Maybe I will play her more after the inevitable nerfs. But I love her addon spread and think her power's in a healthy (hah) spot, so the whole thing makes me sad. The biggest consistent issue I see with her is people just… being awful at dynamic decisionmaking. Or not knowing how to play against Plague, period. So often I see people cleansing and then running to unhook a sick person. Or healing up while sick. So of course those teams get 4ked… it only takes one survivor to give Plague a bunch of fountains, and I don't know how you fix that without gutting her. The only change I'd push for is giving survivors better information so that they can make better decisions (have black incense show itself, maybe make infected gens a little more obvious because the effect can be easy to miss.) Her design is fine, I think she really just isn't played often enough for people to know how to play against her complex power.
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Give me this, make it strong enough to hold its own with other aura perks, and I promise I'll never take it off my builds again. Sounds perfect.
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Not super fond of this argument when BHVR's dangling licensed content in front of me and saying "if you want cool Castlevania stuff, you have to play Lights Out."
Like, yes, I am not playing Lights Out currently. But I had to play a bunch of it to get all the unlocks, even though I never wanted to play more than one game of it.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800802#Comment_3800802
Temple of Purgation Plague demands a sacrifice at the altar right? It can’t just be me.
Oh yes. I'll accept tribute in medkits, but if that lunchbox doesn't end up at the altar, then the Dwight will do just fine…
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Most of the things I was upset about in the original proposal are gone, but I don't understand why BHVR is so deadset on getting rid of mori photobombs when nobody was complaining about them, ever. A survivor running in to slap my ass while I stab their friend 28 times or play a lute over their dying body is one of the funniest things in this game.
Don't turn moris into bloodpoint offerings. We do not need more bloodpoint offerings. We have too many of them and with the exception of cakes/puddings, party streamers, and the anniversary event ones, they are all useless and wildly outclassed. I would never run an offering that will give me extra bloodpoints if I get a 4k (particularly, I lose the offering if last survivor finds hatch before I do… unless I slug for it, which nobody wants) when I can just run an offering that'll give me an extra 25k+ no matter what happens. And that offering will be lower rarity than the moris, to boot.
Change or remove cypress moris and leave the other ones as they are. That's all I need to be happy with this update.
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I'll take Ghostface over 'enjoy running in a black void for 60s' Dredge.
Ghostface's actual reveal mechanic is unaffected even though you can't see him through the dark. As long as you keep swiveling your camera, when you sweep over his direction, you'll get the reveal noise and you'll know to start running (and which direction to start running from.) Myers is harder to spot, but he's also harder to play perkless and less common to encounter, at least in my games.
@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799561#Comment_3799561
If the mode bothers you this much, just don't play it.
Problem solved. Let the people who do like this mode enjoy it. No need to cry that Killers are too strong when Survivors have a free built in yellow toolbox basekit, and nobody has any perks.
I mean, you can't say "just don't play it" when they throw in limited licensed content that asks you to play 15-20 matches of it if you want it. I'm a vampire girlie - I didn't want to play Lights Out, but how else am I supposed to get my Castlevania swag?
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Crossing my fingers so hard rn they're distorting into eldritch shapes. Englund Freddy with voice lines would instantly save the character for me, even with the nothingburger his power is right now. I would still love him. I normally dislike voiced characters in DBD but there's a few whose personality is so over the top that it cinches their identity. Freddy's one of them. A silent Freddy is not Freddy.
But comboed with the rework we know is coming? Oh, that would be a beautiful dream. And actual cosmetics… just imagine. Freddy's taken so many freaky, funny nightmare shapes over the years.
I'm afraid of hoping, but god, I want it.
