Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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Could be that teabaggers knew they were just giving the killer a chance to collect pumpkins, but I did have a lot of survivors waiting out the EGC because they wanted me to watch them drop a smoke bomb and disappear into it.
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Not too old to play games, but old enough to tell those kids to get off your lawn, and go back to playing more DBD!
Don't let anyone tell you what to do, especially not salty people on the internet. Gamer age is going to rise simply because people who grew up with games are more likely to play games, and it was in the 90s when games started becoming really mainstream. I'm 30 and have no plans to put down the controller until my hands don't work anymore. And at that point I hope they'll have developed tech that let me play with my brain.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I hope it's not like the previous where you couldn't just queue as Jason. Wasn't it like random or something before? Correct me if I'm wrong.
The issue was in a lobby with… 8? 9? people, voluntary survivor queues would basically always be an issue because too many people want to play the killer role. It needed twice as many survivors as DBD does per capita, and without the caveat that the killer can't play in a group with their friends (which is a big part of why survivor population always goes up in the evening.)
IIRC it was random, but you could select if you wanted to play Jason or counsellor and that would weight your odds of being picked.
On topic, I'm interested but have low expectations. The game will have both DBD and the nostalgia goggles on the old F13 to compete with, in addition to virtually nothing in the asymm genre surviving the test of time. They're all great fun at first but fall apart once people minmax the game and it turns into a meta fest, and in that regard, DBD seems the only one to have survived the test of the game growing stale and the death knell of mismanagement; there's a sizable pile of dead challengers at its feet nowadays.
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You can't just get mad when Wraith uses his superior speed to bodyblock you in chase - that's like getting mad that Huntress can throw a hatchet. That is that killer's loop tool. Instead, you watch where he's going and change your pathing so that he can't uncloak-lunge from an unbeatable position (aka you at the furthest possible point in a loop from the vault point you wanted to use because he's blocking it.)
If Wraith is invisible running alongside you and you're heading for a pallet or window, he's trying to bodyblock you. And he's going to beat you to it unless you're very close, so stop racing him for the vault - go halfway around the loop so that you can run back to the vault point when he starts uncloaking.
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I agree that ######### like killers bleeding everyone out shouldn't be in the game, and is a very valid excuse for going next. Same with all your teammates hiding and not doing gens, or rampant sandbagging. I recently had a game where a Doctor bled me out and then picked me up when I was almost dead, carried me for a minute until I wiggled out, and would not let me progress the game at all, just to waste my time, and yeah - in that case, a survivor has every right to go next.
But most survivors I unhook that are trying to leave the game are doing so on their first down, long before any reasonable assumption of 'this game is over just let me leave', so I don't have any empathy for them. I'm harvesting my bloodpoints in compensation for them screwing up my game, not the other way around. And I absolutely do it out of spite because I do not want to enable their behavior, which is the reason most of my bad games are bad in the first place. The easier it is for them, the more they'll keep doing it.
Generally I feel like if you're at the point where you're hating every match you lose (which is most matches, as solo survivor), and you're wanting to go next in more matches than not… it's a good time to play killer or set down the game.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837051#Comment_3837051
how does it help you?
Two scenarios.
If I'm an ordinary killer who's throwing hooks wherever but wants to get serious once the gates get closer to being powered, this tells me who to target without me having to play hardball from the start, and doesn't punish me for playing looser at the beginning of the game.
If I'm a friendly killer who's going for the 8-hook, or at least 8-hook before I kill anyone, this prevents me from accidentally killing someone early because they went to second stage, because they took a hook stage, or because I just plain got confused.
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They changed it because the stomp invalidated all save attempts.
I'm not sure what I prefer yet - I'll have to play it out to get a feel for it.
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@Rudjohns said:
To help tunneling even more
If you're tunneling, you're already counting hooks, and you know who had the hook state taken from them because there was only one survivor you were pressuring in the first place. This helps players who spread hooks much more than it helps tunnelers.
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The problem is that there's a perception that SWFs are terrifying monster squads whose only drive in life is to bully the killer and tbag them on their 4man out, but the majority of them are casuals and barely play better than solos, if they do at all. Some of them are even worse than solos because they're suicidally altruistic for each other, or they want to do cool plays but don't have the technical skill to pull them off. None of my games end faster than when I get three people crowding me with flashlights and they can't even hit the blind, much less linger a safe distance away or hide their grunts of pain.
Simply put, it's not fair to those players to slap a big "BRING YOUR MEANEST PERKS AND TUNNEL SOMEONE ASAP" label on them. Because that's what the SWF boogeyman label will elicit.
I'd rather just leave killers to the current system where they can adjust perks (or even lobby dodge) based on seeing 4 toolboxes or flashlights. While imperfect, that's a better indicator that that squad's playing hardball than if they're a SWF.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Her perks to me seem to embody a flagellant mindset. Wanting to take the hit to aid others out of (pragmatic) empathy, or because she believes she’s the one that deserves it, or that she’s the only one capable of handling it, or maybe out of straight masochism.
Oh, now this is a really interesting way of looking at it. I don't think it's empathy - she still wants to be a killer, and I'm not sure how helping others escape the Entity is going to help clear her ledger. Taurie's pragmatism would be sandbagging all of her teammates, dropping pallets in front of them and giving the killer a thumbs up at the down. But wanting to take on suffering and embrace her punishment so that she can purify herself and ascend? That'd fit.
I could very much work with this if her quotes were just a little different. If Shoulder the Burden's "It's not your time yet! Go on!" was something like "Mighty Black Talon, I take this pain unto myself willingly!"
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432171/this-is-kind-of-strange
I agree. I’m getting mixed messages. With a Survivor like this I would think that her perks would be like on Yun-Jin’s level of some type of team sabotage.
Though an argument could be made that her perks are perks that help the Killer like the Invocation so…
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HR5P60Y953BD/img-7788.gif
LMAO. The most insidious ploy a survivor who wants to help the Entity could ever pull. "Hey, guys, come to the basement! I've got something really cool for you! (it's crows)"
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This has been an issue with MMR since its inception. Low MMR is a positive thing for killers. You get 4 weak opponents. You can raise your MMR easily as long as you have basic game knowledge. The only time MMR drop is a problem for killer is if they're a skilled player playing friendly, as they'll fall out of their actual skill level and have to grind babies to get back to where they belong.
Low MMR is not a positive thing for survivors, it's a quicksand pit. You get 1 weak opponent and 3 weak teammates. Even if you outplay your opponent, you're still likely to lose because survivors are not built to carry the game on their own shoulders, and low level survivors are notorious for wasting time. They're bad at doing gens when you're in chase, even if you can pull off very long chases, and they'll fall over immediately once chased. When neither player knows how to run structures, the killer wins by default; if a survivor doesn't run anywhere purposeful and doesn't mindgame, a single healthstate is lasting 15 seconds tops. Many newbies I see will run straight through pallets without even realizing they can drop them to block the killer.
My survivor MMR is better now, but I was stuck in elo hell maybe two years ago and I don't even know how I got out of it. It was just miserable. Actually, I think I do remember - my games got better after 6.1 because everyone's MMR got destroyed in the ragequit epidemic and better teammates buoyed me back out.
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I'm not concerned about TTVs - most of the distinctly unfun or outright griefer killers I play against are not content creators, just regular jerks. The correlation between TTV/YT and toxicity is not nearly as high as people think it is, in either direction.
But I'm torn on the actual suggestion. I do kinda want it. More than that, I wish we could chat with all players pre-match… though I suspect BHVR doesn't want that and wants to discourage killer-survivor collaboration if at all possible (a la "hey guys I'm trying to get this achievement, help me out and I'll do whatever you want.")
Showing the killer's name results in the same possibility of messaging the killer pre or mid match, for good or ill. But more importantly, I'm certain this would lead to a lot of profile inspection and dodging over -reps and other complaint litter that people get. If your lobby's killer has 40 pages of -rep hard tunneled and -rep camping bubba, do you really want to load into that match? Even if you're a god looper and you don't feel threatened, the chance one of your teammates comes face to face with a killer playing hardball and either messes up and dooms the match or just ragequits is pretty high.
Killer anonymity does serve a purpose. People already dodge teammates over perceptions of 'this player doesn't have enough hours', now imagine how they'd react to a 5000 hour killer. I think this would make private profiles all but mandatory.
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It really hasn't helped matters. I still don't want basekit unbreakable, but forced timewasting is way up and my survivor experience has gotten considerably worse on average. About half of my survivor games end in killer slugging, and even if I had an okay match, I will leave it angry and feeling upset with the game if I had to wait 45 seconds on the ground with the killer humping me out of boredom as they wait for everyone else to die before they mori me, as opposed to that exact same match but the killer hooks me and I die immediately after I lose the game.
Either widen the net of when killers can use the finisher mori so that it encompasses more game over scenarios (ex everyone else is on second stage hook, or slugged and nobody has pickup perks) or just get rid of it, please.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3836406#Comment_3836406
I wonder if something better in that situation would be something along the lines of:
"I really appreciate you playing fair, not tunneling and stuff! :)"
I know that regardless of the outcome of my survivor matches, the match can be fun as long as the killer doesn't do things that ruin the game for people. And I appreciate it when my survivors say they enjoyed matches with me!
Oh, absolutely. Some people are just very upset and won't want to hear from the (perceived) aggressor no matter what, but you've got the right of it - praising them for some cool or funny thing they did during gameplay or thanking them for playing fair is the best way to reach out, depending on the situation. Even praising their cosmetics if there's really nothing else and the match was a shitshow from the start. Or apologizing, if your survivor teammates were BMing the killer while they lost. I've been on both sides of that equation and I can't understate how much that counted for me when I had a survivor reach out and express distaste for teammate BM, because during the match it always feels like you've got a unified force laughing at your expense.
To be honest, I find that GG, even when used in the fairest possible light (you say it after you lost), is pretty cursory and stale. Even saying "Good game!" does far more to convey sincere meaning than "gg."
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I'm so glad to hear that! I hated the injured change; it was really terrible to have to wait a while in the match when your teammates may have already opened the chests.
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I've got mixed feelings about this chapter. On the one hand, I love the killer design and the lore to bits, and I couldn't be happier about doggo!!! But the power seems really undercooked on two fronts. It's very high skill low reward, like Pinhead but without his passive that often plays the game for him… and it's also very buggy, which is even worse. The dog frequently gets stuck or can't path, especially over height changes, and his hitbox is extremely poor. Many visual connects where the dog misses. At least with Deathslinger, those pinpoint misses made sense.
It doesn't feel like this chapter is ready for release, and when you combo that with the lack of marketing, it almost feels like BHVR expects it to flop. But it's a pity, because trailers could have been amazing here. We've got a violently insane hallucinating torturer pirate lady with a goodboi who may or may not be the Entity in disguise. And a cultist survivor? There was so much they could have done with that.
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I kinda want this so that I can't accidentally kill survivors during anniversary cake fests if they're using perks I can't see to shift hook states around.
"Just count them" doesn't work anymore, no matter how you're trying to use that information.
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I will, because I want 100% achievements, I love Snug, I love to pet Snug, and I think her design and lore is pretty awesome (in that she has a tragic backstory, but she's genuinely insane and evil at this point, and not in the same kind of way that Artist and Spirit are, where they died horribly and now they're like vengeful spirits. Even if she was stuck on Entity Island, her fall into evil felt a bit more… human? She actively orchestrated elaborate tortures. She reminds me a bit of Deathslinger in this way, but less calculated and more violently insane. And it's hard to tell if Snug was ever really there or if he was just a manifestation of the Entity all along. She's scary and I like her.)
That said, I don't buy original chapters with real money, so it's not costing me anything.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834844#Comment_3834844
I did have good intentions. I say gg because I had fun sure he DCed but it was fun facing him. I don't start basically mocking him and saying why DC because then it would be a bit hypocritical since I'm guilty of DCing.
It's still unfortunately a bit tonedeaf, no matter what your intentions were. Saying GG to someone who's clearly frustrated and getting their ass kicked is rubbing salt in the wound, as they did not have a good game, and many people will do this intentionally to rub it in. The Ghostface was unable to determine your intentions and wasn't in a good enough state of mind to interpret it charitably; since they already felt attacked that game, it's not surprising they read your GG as mocking.
If you want to reach out to someone in that situation, wish them a better next game.
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Oooh. I'm really excited about Shoulder the Burden… it might end up going unused the same way Reassurance initially was, despite the hype, but the anti-tunneling potential feels really promising. It also allows an interesting option in, say, you're not a good looper and there's better loopers on your team, but you do need to take hook states to keep the 4v1 going as long as possible. This perk allows you to basically outsource your contributions to team health and I'm curious if we'll see gen jockeys and hiders bringing it. Well. Maybe not the latter, with the Exposed.
Interested to check out the Myers changes too. His basekit sounds a lot healthier and it's all stuff we've been asking for for years, though without playtesting I suspect that Tombstone Piece is still busted (still way too much value for too little effort, plus stalking from afar is easiest at the start of the game and cancels out some of the penalty) and Judith's is now harder to pull off/easier to counter despite already being the weaker addon of the two. I wonder if there's a licensing issue that's keeping those two addons unchanged, because they really don't belong in modern DBD (even if Tombstone Piece is the only one that's an actual power issue, Judith's is just boring.)
Honestly, while I think the nerf was healthy and this was the exact change I wanted… I kind of wish the item aura reveal was attached to Franklins and not Weave Attunement, as Franklins is a better perk on its own. I run Weave without Franklins on a weird Hoarder build and the perk sometimes functions on its own because survivors just don't notice their item fell off. I doubt that's happening anymore. Meanwhile, with Franklins, survivors seeing where dropped items is is not a strict nerf to the killer because it makes it likelier survivors go back after the chase is over, which is a timewaster that doesn't factor with Weave (you just pick it right back up), when you can slap it back down to take advantage of this multiple times, and where you can more reliably ambush them a la "I know the survivor is about to go here."
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BHVR saw the wave of headpats survivors gave to every Dracula and knew exactly how to hype their next chapter.
And I love them for it. We asked and they delivered. pet that dog
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832197#Comment_3832197
dude the topic of the thread is tunneling and slugging should be punishable.
Also all numbers are accurate.
And yes killers are fragile and full of ego.
the simulator has made 4k so easy killers believe they are really good. Most killers are mediocre at best (myself included) but still get 4ks with ease because the game hands it to them.Oh look that survivor escaped, here’s a speed boost and an aura reveal so you don’t lose!! Hardly a challenge. It’s creates a false sense of ability thats not in the game.
2 of the first ten comments mention gen rushing (which again killers who defend slugging often are anti gen rush because it ruins their game)
Do keep up hun
It's bizarre how you're talking about survivors and killers like they aren't the same players. Do I stop being fragile and full of ego when I switch over to solo queue for the day, or do I have to play a certain amount of killer before I'm suddenly a terrible person who just wants to power trip with my murder simulator?
Your numbers wildly conflict with my game experience, and more importantly, the official stats. You'll forgive me for wanting more evidence.
People brought up gens as a direct counterpoint to kills to illustrate how insane the OP's premise was, of punishing people for doing their objective as efficiently and boringly as possible. It's sarcasm.
Are you talking about Predator? I thought we were complaining about gen slowdown perks? Frankly that perk isn't an issue unless you're Nurse, and Nurse is already an issue in of herself.
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@ErebusSurge said:
nice to see all the bad killers popping up here to say they have to slug because they can’t get a 4 k any other way..
they also cry about gen rush - killers are very fragile.
I probably play killer 60% of the time and get a 4k 95% of the time. No slugging no tunneling. It’s not hard the game is designed for me to do it with ease.I play survivor 40% of the time and escape around 5% its hard because the game is designed to not let me out.
There is a huge imbalance in the roles and it’s undeniable. It’s about time people stopped with the fragility and ego and got together and said look we don’t want a death simulator we want a game that’s fun for both sides. Give survivors a chance and make killers work a little bit for their kills.
perma wall hacks and speed boosts and super human reach and teleport all combined are awful for the simulator.
Literally nobody in this thread said anything about slugging. Well, no, that's a lie. One person brought up slugging to acknowledge it wasn't fun and was getting out of hand.
I don't see anything about gen rush, either.
You understand that when you project that hard, accuse everyone else of being both biased and bad when they don't automatically agree with you, and throw around such extreme numbers… nobody who isn't extremely biased will take you seriously, yes?
I die in the vast majority of my survivor matches, and gates only get powered maybe one in every five or six games. There's a problem and I don't think it's entirely me. But fragility and ego? Right now, at least, that particular issue lies with your perception.
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Look. I roll my eyes at players who sweat like their lives depend on it when their opponents are obviously outmatched, and I roll my eyes harder at the ones to stop to gloat about it afterwards. But playing to win should never be against the rules.
Not only is that punishing people for the high crime of playing the game… it's impossible to police consistently, or in a way that wouldn't backfire onto you eventually. "Trying too hard" and "making an experience that isn't fun for the other side" are incredibly subjective. It's pretty rare that all five players in one game of DBD are having fun at the same time and don't have any problems with how the other players are playing. If you start to go after players for playing hardball, where does that stop? Are four toolbox lobbies bannable? SWFs? Nurse? Map offerings?
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I think iridescents are a relic of early DBD game design that modern DBD doesn't know what to do with. Back at the start of the game, iris were meant to be huge, powerful buffs that players rarely obtained - BNPs instantly completed generators, moris allowed first down kills, keys could get all four survivors out the hatch, we had instablind flashlights… modern DBD players would hate DBD's early wild west. Iri killer addons were intended to be that same level of power. Judith's Tombstone, Black Incense, old Iri Head, old Pinky Finger, old Mother-Daughter Ring… so on.
But DBD has steadily moved away from bringable elements being able to influence a match that much. Iris are still meant to be the biggest, most game-changing killer addons… but they can't actually be strong or they fall afoul of the design philosophy and BHVR gets slammed with complaints. So they tend to run niche or weird. A few of the old powerhouses haven't been nerfed yet, and there's still some good ones like Mint Rag and Coxcombed Clapper, but it's pretty often they miss the mark and they're not often the killer's best addons.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
Why are people making out this is a new thing? People slugged for the 4k long ago. Slug the 3rd to find the 4th before hatch can spawn. This has been the way for a long time since survivors started taking the game hostage during 2 v 1 situations
Who's making this out to be a new thing? Slugging for the 4k has been a constant complaint on these forums for years. I've complained about it right with them, and have proposed various solutions that would decrease survivor annoyance without shifting the power balance of the killer already having won the game. I made it very clear in my post that this is an exacerbation of a pre-existing problem.
The issue is that something that was already universally considered unpleasant is becoming constant. It's like occasional DCs versus the epidemic you get when the penalty is turned off. One's an annoyance, the other is a problem.
@albertoplus said:
Mori should totally be available if every person is hooked already.
Having said that, however… i think you should also blame the survivor who is struggling in the hook when no one is going to come to rescue him. That person can get out asap and so the killer will mori and the match will end.
The killer choses to mori in that situation, but the hooked survivor choses to drag out that moment. Its both's fault.
On that case yeah, killer should be able to mori if everyone else are hooked so the match can be over quickly.
Now, about the slugging last second person so he finds and mori the last one.. it was already being done thanks to hatch, so nothing changes here.
While it's true the person on the hook is also prolonging the game, the killer has more power than they do to decide to end the game… and more importantly, I have no control over what either of them are doing.
It's gotten to the point where I don't want to play survivor anymore, and whenever I do, I end up wondering why I'm playing DBD. Getting slugged at the end sours what would have otherwise been an unremarkable match. At least as killer I have control over what's going on.
Mori should be available once everyone but one person is hooked, and that would solve part of this problem, but I'm still noticing a drastic uptick in slugging for the 4k compared to where it was before the finisher mori was implemented.
@TotemsCleanser said:
Slugging has skyrocketed so much lately that it's only a matter of time before the devs actually nerf it somehow. And then all the aggressively slugging defenders will whine about their epic "valid because BHVR doesn't punish it" strategy being nerfed. But when it happens I'll argue that you only reap what you sow. I'll only feel sorry for those of us who every now and then slug a bit because we have no other choice, since we'll too be paying the price for those who abuse the mechanic.
Just wanted to +1, since these are my feelings on the matter. I've long campaigned against mass bleedouts as a griefing tactic and bemoaned that BHVR doesn't seem to consider it problematic, but I am concerned by the uptick in mass slugging lately because while it absolutely sucks as survivor, I'm afraid for my killer experience if the strategy itself gets nerfed. I play Plague, I verse save squads - I want the option to be there, but I'm afraid I'm going to lose it because mass abuse means we can't have nice things.
Sans intentional 4-man bleedouts, I'd also rather face slugging than tunneling, and given that camping has been eviscerated, I expect any sizeable nerf to slugging is going to shift all the runoff to tunneling.
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I've been trying a similar build on my Dracula! Fire Up, Batteries Included, and No Way Out for the lategame ramp-up. Does Brutal Strength work when you use wolf pounce to destroy pallets? If so, might give that a whirl.
On teams I don't feel that pressured over, lately I've been playing with Weave, Hoarder, and Human Greed. Aura read around items, aura read around chests, and lots of chests. It's actually really good in indoor maps, though on Swamp and Coldwind it's unbelievably bad. And most survivors don't interact with chests, but it's hilarious with the ones that do, because it turns the game into a matter of chest control because you really want to keep them closed.
Franklins would make this way more effective, but nobody likes playing against that and the point is to mess around, so I just use a fourth perk of my choosing.
@Caiman said:
I slapped together a recent build for "make survivors scream" tome challenges.
- Hex: Face the Darkness
- Friends 'Til the End
- Make Your Choice
- Deathbound
The AAAAAAA build! Love that. My AAAAAAAA build was Face The Darkness, Deathbound, Iron Maiden, and Ultimate Weapon. Hilarious games. It's logistically a really awful build because the screams stop providing information when they could mean literally anything, but who cares when everyone's screaming their heads off.
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If they're hanging by my gate and won't check the other one, I'm assuming they have Whispers. That, or the other gate is close enough where they have line of sight on both gates. Nothing for it but to go up to the killer and pray the puppy dog eyes work. Good thing I almost always bring my lute.
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I assume there wasn't a PTB because most of this update was about pushing fixes for the event, which are time sensitive and couldn't wait to be tested.
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Everything seems good here except the WGLF nerf. It's the wrong direction to nerf the perk. The endurance was the problematic part, not the healing speed.
Don't get why Machine Learning was nerfed but not especially bothered by it, and very happy about the event bloodpoint increases and removing the killer one-two punch with haunts.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823682#Comment_3823682
hard tunneling (or how people love to call it "tunneling at 5 gens) is very effective because first player gets found extremely quickly and gets 2-tapped in the very first chase and/or teammates barely touched gens at all. It's not meta because it's strong, it's a strategy that stomps bad players, while being stomped by good players.
Asking for any kind of further punishment for a killer that most literally just outplayed survivors that were very bad will never be a solution to anything, it will just make the game more unhealthy
Hard tunneling doesn't get stomped by good players, though. Obviously tunneling is more dominant when a survivor is easy pickings and can be removed from the game at 5 gens, but tunneling a player to death before engaging anyone else is meta across the board and there's no better killer strat even in comp play, because achieving the 3v1 ASAP is the most consistent way to shift match momentum in the killer's favor, whether it's a win-more strat or it's the only option the killer has.
The only time tunneling from the start is a bad idea for the killer is when the survivor they're trying to tunnel is an extremely strong looper. In that case, tunneling isn't the problem, it's that they have the wrong target. And if each one of the four survivors are a bad idea for the killer to tunnel, then the killer is just outmatched and should lose. If a killer gets stomped by counter-tunneling, then they get stomped no matter what they do… exceptions made if every survivor is running every anti-tunnel perk on the book, but that situation doesn't realistically happen. It takes very on-point teamwork to counter tunneling long enough to matter, not just skill but strong communication and game sense (for when it's worthwhile to take a hit vs when it's just wasting time and doesn't buy the looper anything so you should be on gens.) Frequently I see survivors' attempts to counter tunneling work in the killer's favor.
That said, tunneling is not an easy issue to address (because what's overkill against bad survivors is mandatory against good ones and any one-size solution on this is going to screw over some bracket of the game), and not the purpose of this thread anyway. My point was that I think it's reasonable to give survivors a big gen boost for a 3v1 at 5 gens because they are 99.999% of the time guaranteed lost and have no incentive to try - especially if that boost falls off as gens are completed. It's not going to suddenly make survivors start winning these games with any regularity. I almost never see more than 2 full gens get completed in a 3v1 game; the loop of chase-hook-heal breaks down quite quickly as resources are expended, assuming the looper could loop long enough in the first place. And for most players, who are solos, their teammates falling over to a single poke or ragequitting immediately is scarcely their fault for 'being bad', and I'd argue that having games routinely be completely screwed so early, through no participation of your own, on is part of what makes this game unhealthy, alongside a flawed matchmaking system and toxic/antagonistic player culture. And I think it's unhealthy that killers are incentivized to chase this unwinnable game state - which is not an issue with killers, but rather an issue with game design, that the optimal strategy is not very engaging to play against.
Giving 3v1 survivors gen speed at 5 gens doesn't badly affect high level gameplay because 3v1 5-gens don't happen against the survivors where killers actually need to tunnel to win. I guess I just don't see the issue. Inefficient players will still lose, the killer still has a huge advantage and boosted gen speed is only going to really matter at less than 3 gens remaining (whereupon I don't want to give any significant boosts), but they at least get the illusion of being able to progress the match to a competitive point. The point is to get survivors in lost games out of lockers and onto gens, where the killer can actually find them - if this comes with nerfs to stealth, as proposed, this feels not only balanced to me, but more QoL to the killer than punishing them.
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Why not? He's invisible, not intangible. Blocking pallets and vault points is the only shred of anti-loop power he has. I don't think it's fair to remove it from him when he doesn't have any other tools to deal with loops.
You can tell when Wraith is getting ahead of you to block a pallet. You have to be out-positioned for him to do this in the first place, but he has a cue and a cooldown while he uncloaks, and you can see what he's doing before he even gets into position at the pallet. Run in the opposite direction, either to another pallet or halfway around the loop if the structure permits. If there's nothing else, you can try to fake him into starting to follow you away from the pallet then and get back under it.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823406#Comment_3823406
That's not taking the game hostage. There's a bleedout timer. Move on. Next.
I really dislike this statement. They're both terrible for the same reason - you're being forced to wait an excessive amount of time in a game that's already over because the other players are preventing you from moving next via obviously unintentional gameplay, and you have no power to exit save forfeiting everything you've already earned.
"It ends eventually" has never made anything okay in this game. There's a timer for the match to end and the survivors to automatically get sacrificed. That doesn't mean two Claudettes moving between Dead Dawg corner bushes for 50 minutes is engaging gameplay. It doesn't mean the killer bleeding out survivors for no other reason than to be a dick is okay either, any more than it was okay for survivors to tell the killer "just slug them to death" when Boil Over had unhookable zones on half the maps. Forced time-wasting gameplay sucks for everyone, always, and should be reduced wherever possible.
One side's problems don't invalidate the other's, and it's healthy for the game to address problems on both sides, not just the side you favor or believe suffers more.
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I barely notice the turrets when I'm playing Xeno, and when they do get me, it always feels like I'm back in my power soon enough anyway, especially if I use tunnels. Considering the amount of time they take to set up, I think they're fine, even underpowered.
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I think the void realm is really cool and I'm very happy with the current event, but I miss the blight lore and aesthetic. I think visually, orange is a better match for Halloween than blue, even before we get into the pustules and claw-spikes and all that other freaky Entity goodness. I feel like the blight has largely been forgotten about, which is a shame, because it's probably the most distinct DBD visual and brand (barring Trapper himself.)
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Scratched Mirror Myers. The paranoia that he pretty much always knows where you are and could be around any corner is insane and I love it. I spend entire games swiveling in a panic. Nothing else like it in DBD.
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@IIITweedleIII said:
It's real funny you even say this, considering all the survivors that whine to go next and their excuses to suicide on hook. And if you as Killer slug them for a single minute, shed tears for their precious time lost, but will endlessly out wait a killer hiding forever in the shadows.
You're not exactly wrong, but it's important to remember that survivors are not a gestalt - or even a distinct entity unto themselves. Some players are hypocrites or just consistently selfish and only care about their own experience ambivalent to the problems their behavior causes for others, but mostly it's different players with different complaints. Many of the survivors who complain about being slugged for the 4k are also killers who complain about survivors hiding forever.
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Several of the mods are community managers and report our feedback to the dev team on a daily basis. Other times, devs come and post directly.
I once made a suggestion to how a perk could be changed that got the BHVR Read status and was used verbatim a month or two later. Plenty other times I've caterwauled about changes that didn't end up going through or got reverted - within the past few PTBs, they listened to complaints about moris, complaints about the updated UI and how it emphasized the store/rearranged the display order of characters, complaints about various perk changes, complaints about 2v8, and complaints about changes to both Knight and Skull Merchant, to name a few.
They're definitely paying attention. And while there are things they don't listen to that I wish they would…. I do have to admit, the forums are hyperbolic enough that if they did everything we asked for, this game would be unplayable.
Overall I feel they've improved community outreach and reactivity significantly from where it was when I started playing. Are they perfect, no, I've got a laundry list of problems with this game (chief among them being the recent trend in map design and their lack of interest in curbing griefing), but despite that I'm feeling positive with where the game is going.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823659#Comment_3823659
One idea I have in this ballpark, is if each sacrificed survivor triggers a new global effect. Similarly to how the Hatch opens after the third sacrifice. But it's more in favour of giving survivors tools rather than making it harder to hide, after all survivors hide in this situations because they have no other viable options. That said I have no qualms with increasing afk crow activation alongside this.
After the first survivor sacrificed, all gens go into 'Overcharge'. Global gen speeds are increased by 3% for each gen remaining to be repaired. If there's one gen left to do it's just 3%, if you're are 5 gens still, it's 15%. This provides some assistance to remaining survivors in the case of tunneling one out, and some hope to carry on instead of everyone immediately giving up.
Being only 3% per gen, it's still nowhere near enough to the handicap the survivors have once one of them is out, so you can't say it's "punishing the killer for winning" they're just winning by 97% instead of 100%. And as it only comes into play after an elimination, it's entirely within the killers ability to deny it, by spreading hooks. Survivors could potentially game it by 99ing gens, but again a sacrifice has already occurred, they're already losing and it's going to be difficult to keep all those gens at 99 while also not getting hit.
Additionally, the rate of afk crows increases.
After the second survivor sacrificed, all survivors receive the 'Reprieve' effect, allowing them to pick themselves up from the dying state. This combats slugging for the 4K, so it's no longer a guaranteed strat to turn a 3K into an automatic 4K. It still requires time for the slugged survivors to recover so I don't see much avenue for abuse, it's essentially what we had in 2v8.
Gens also go to the next stage of 'Overcharge' after the second sacrificed survivor, increasing it to 5% per unrepaired generator. At this stage, there's really only hope for survivors if there's only one or two gens left, so 5% or 10% repair speed bonus seems fair to me.
Afk crows also increase further in contrast.
After the third survivor sacrificed, the Hatch opens, as normal.
I don't have much to say other than that I really like the sound of this. I think that the gen speed increase could increase semi-exponentially instead of at a flat rate, so that the boost is nonexistent with 3 survivors and 1 gen left (as this is a very doable situation and the killer is arguably punished for hooking instead of slugging by any amount of gen speed boost), but very high with 3 survivors and 5 gens left (as this situation is virtually unbeatable as it stands and is one of the reasons why hard tunneling is so effective), but apart from that I think this is excellently thought out and the status effects are perfectly tailored to the evolving flow of the match.
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I don't agree. Exhaustion perks are very powerful, to the point where a build without one is usually off-meta and exhaustion addons are consistently among the best ones killers have. Exhaustion doesn't need to be made stronger, and I consider immunity to exhaustion a healthy tradeoff of not using chase perks in the same way that not bringing items makes you immune to Franklins. It's still an opportunity cost more than it's a gain, but lets you dodge some builds designed to punish the meta.
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Yeah, I think we could use mechanics to speed up the 2 players left scenario in the same way that we had to hurry along hatch standoffs. It's obnoxious and it isn't good gameplay for anyone.
My two cents is that once there's two players left, survivors should start to accumulate crows whenever they aren't within 32m of the killer and they aren't doing conspicuous actions, and they can't lose crows by moving between tiles anymore, only by doing conspicuous actions. But in return, survivors get permanent Unbreakable, so the killer can't use their advantages to stall the game in return. Possibly boosted repair speed inversely proportionate to the number of gens remaining (so no boost if 1 gen left and 2x repair speed if 5 gens left), though that's more experimental and I don't expect it to change much.
Something like this could also be implemented in a sort of… the way battle royale games steadily harshen the conditions? I don't know what the term would be, but basically make everything ramp up as time goes on in a 2-survivor scenario. Normal conditions for 3 minutes, then increased crow spawn timer and slightly increased repair speed, and so on until killer has permanent killer instinct outside of chase and survivors have 3% haste or something. I can't really say what would be balanced, only that I would prefer the game shift out of permanent hide and seek and forced into game progression and 'may the best player win', not 'may the player willing to waste the most time get the hatch.'
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@MrDardon said:
I sometimes play barkeeper so I'll either send myself to Glenvale or Ormond and stay at the bar until customers arrive.
Had a good time as Wraith once on both maps.. but I remember that Nancy stealing all my money once I wasn't looking.
Aw man, I love doing that. Gas Heaven and Greenville too, for a different kind of customer service experience, though Dead Dawg is my favorite because survivors can get on the counter and drop items on it.
I hit survivors who try to get on the other side of the register. Staff only 😠
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Yesterday I chased a survivor into the void, and they stopped and pointed and wanted to go make a void crystal, so I left them alone. I like memes, and I was already giving them a mental thumbs up because they had Mirrored Illusion and I love seeing weird perks like that.
Heard fast vaults at the endgame and found that they'd made a line of void crystals at the exit gate. They set them off one by one and then sacrificed themselves to the Entity for me in the last puff of smoke. What a legend.
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They do internally playtest everything. That isn't a question. I just suspect the skill level/mindset of the people on the team is mostly casual, so DBD is rarely playtested optimally, more like a party game between coworkers. This means mechanics don't get stress tested, synergies aren't regularly caught, and they definitely don't discover the ways players can use new mechanics to be huge jerks to each other.
It makes sense that the slant of an event doesn't get caught when you aren't testing it with quad BNP and perfect loops, hard tunneling, et cetera. Lower skill/casual DBD doesn't resemble optimized DBD at all and it's easily possible for either side to win regardless of the tools available if they aren't taking advantage of them. Though I agree that someone should have realized they were overcorrecting too hard on feedback from last year and that too many pushes in one direction just moves the pendulum (and I'm a little afraid of the upcoming 2v8 for the same reason.)
Of course, we don't know what insane things never make it to PTBs due to in-house playtesting, so for all we know, we've been saved from terrible fates countless times alerady.
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Knock Out and Third Seal. They're just there to make solo queue even more suffering than it already is while doing nothing to SWFs and I can't help but squint at whoever brings them, because outside of adepts I feel like you have to be at least a little intentionally mean to go that route.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
I'm on console and the smoke is actually blinding when I play killer. When I played survivor and used the smoke the killer isn't phased at all? Is that because of shaders? I'm honestly curious, because it seems unfair to console killer player that can't adjust.
I'm on PC and I find the smoke plenty disorienting. I would imagine the effectiveness varies depending on whether the killer has headphones to sound track you, how well they have the map memorized and can play it blind, and where you used the smoke bomb. In some places, the bomb won't do you any good because the killer can just go around it, or can only possibly go straight. I find it's most effective to use at enclosed corners or other paths with jinks.
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I don't know the rules regarding being friendly with some survivors and not others. That's a grey area that can cover a variety of situations ranging from yours, where the killer was entirely ignoring two survivors and preying on the others, to a killer giving hatch to one survivor and not another.
But if the survivors were helping the killer corner you, getting in your way and pointing you out and so, that's 100% against the rules for all three of those players.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821427#Comment_3821427
Can’t see but can hear you, yes?
They can hear you, but use it in the right spot and the killer will run into walls trying to follow your sound. Or bring Iron Will. It's very good… though it's much stronger on indoor maps, and maps with tight corridors, than very exposed maps. So far it's messed me up bad on Badham and Hawkins, and it's got good use spots in the Void Realm because you can trick the killer into falling off ledges, but it didn't really do anything when I faced survivors with it on Ormond.
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@Ayodam said:
Someone explain to me why survivors should enter the void? They are revealed to killers at all times while inside, are exhausted and broken. And they do this to possibly create a smoke bomb that briefly hides scratch marks in a small area around them..?
The smoke bomb completely obscures the killer's vision. They can't see you unless they're close enough to touch you. Throw it in a tight corridor and it's seriously confusing. I've lost a few chases to it in areas with no resources. It's a great item, the problem is that you have to make a big diversion to get it and that diversion isn't worth it unless the killer is either pretty bad or also wasting time noodling around doing event things.
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I really love the respawning pumpkins. The improved void realm looks and feels amazing, to say nothing of the new powers, and it's been really cool to watch the void event evolve over the past three years… but the pumpkins alone are enough to make this one for me. So many bloodpoints on offer, and the killer doesn't have an advantage on collecting all these things anymore. Great times.
I just wish engaging with the event stuff wasn't so reliant on the other team also choosing to engage with the event versus sweating. Which I guess is nothing new (I still fondly remember snowmen, as much havoc as they caused), but it's not very time-effective if the other team isn't messing around.