Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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The new void realm looks incredible, I love the structure they added, both the survivor and killer powers are genuinely useful and well-thought out, and I'm really enjoying that pumpkins regenerate and that they're more accessible to survivors as a result (as well as more free bloodpoints for everyone)…
…but in my matches, I'm finding that as a rule, I can only go enjoy the event stuff if the other side is also doing it. The requirement to unlock that special power is really disruptive and allows too much momentum to shift in your absence, especially as killer but also as survivor, so it takes too much time to go into the void realm and navigate to the center to recover from unless the other team is also playing around with it.
Still, really fun stuff. Just not exactly practical.
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@Mandy said:
Can you make sure you're not just tapping the button for the perk and hold it down please?
Were we supposed to be holding the button for the entire performance, though? Typically you're supposed to do one quick button press for these kinds of perk effects (like Diversion or Blast Mine.) I never had to hold the button before to use Bardic Inspiration.
The issue is that the perk is behaving like an action interrupts the performance (i.e., if the character moved or tapped a gen or something). The input remains the same.
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A purely team based score would be bad - you're inevitably dragged down or boosted by the efforts of three other players, and that would cause resentment and accusations to boil up pretty fast. But the concept has a lot of merit to it. I think the best way to implement something like this would be a hybrid system, where individual score is factored first, and then a team score could be added onto that (but never subtracted/a negative modifier to personal performance.) So maybe you get tunneled out, and you get your piddly 6k score because you couldn't do anything, and then when the match is over, you get +1000 BP per gen your team completes after your death, +500 for every stun they get, and +2000 for every survivor that escapes.
Just spitballing the numbers, but something like this would be less punishing to survivors that sacrifice themselves in pursuit of team objectives so long as their teammates continue to succeed.
I don't know if it should touch MMR, though. MMR's a tricky beast, especially for survivors - being too high and too low are both very bad things for the player. I do think not losing or even gaining MMR if you die but your 3 teammates get out would be helpful, and it would help solos escape from the Clueless Teammate Pit. But at the same time I'm nervous that it could go too far in the opposite extreme and function to keep boosting players who need to lose MMR to be in a comfortable zone.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818099#Comment_3818099
Maybe even the hatch could get a better reward to encourage people to keep playing.
If a player were in a match with 0 gens completed, one person dead, and everyone else on death hook, what reward do you think would be enough to encourage them to play for the hatch as if it were a serious match?
Now you're talking. I think this is a better venue to tackle incentives, in games that survivors already consider pointless. A big score event or a bloodpoint modifier akin to an Escape Cake would be great motivators to keep survivors in losing games (i.e., 6 hooks at 5 gens, or a player dead before anyone else has hooks.)
Doesn't address the first person giving up, but makes the experience less terrible for the other three.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Automatic double pip on an escape through the gate is something I've wanted for a long time. It seems really silly to get a 4 out and not even pip because I played optimally. Survivor pips in general need a bit of a rework IMO. Survivor gameplay is contextual, and reducing pips down to things you can do rather than doing the things you should do is counterintuitive to me.
Pipping rewards on survivor are kind of a mess anyway. Killers automatically engage in all four categories of emblems, but survivors both compete with each other for team roles and, like you said, don't have control over what needs doing at any given moment. In particular, I don't like Iridescent Unbroken because never getting downed is both unrealistic - this only happens if the killer is horribly outmatched, or worse, if you hide all game and don't take your share of aggro.
That said, I think increasing the bloodpoint reward would be fine. An iri shard incentive would be interesting but might skew roles to the point of killer drought. Though I'm not a good person to ask because I don't give up unless the rest of my team gives up. (I used to also give up in perma 3-gens but that's fixed now.)
Mostly, I think increasing rewards for escaping isn't a very effective way of preventing players from giving up, because players give up when they feel they will not win (or otherwise don't consider the game worth playing, i.e. overpowered or frustrating killer/build, or killer build that negates your own items/build.) More rewards for escaping won't stop the pessimist who thinks any down before a gen gets completed means the game is lost, because they're already convinced they won't escape. To tackle this, I think we need either better comeback options for survivors, or a way to identify and punish hook suicides.
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Is it really possible to get a refund? What are the terms on that? I bought every non-licensed character with shards (except Plague and Jane), but getting a refund for changed prices feels a bit weird when I've had use of the product for 3 years now, even if that's a refund in a purely non-cash currency. I wouldn't complain about getting some 25k shards out of nowhere, but usually price reductions aren't grandfathered like this.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817692#Comment_3817692
The issue is that only benefits the killer. I don’t agree with infinite unbreakable at all but this also is not a fair option. Because then killers will just 4 man slug everyone knowing the survivors will force bleed out to get out of the match, killer gets their 4K. That takes zero effort, skill and artificially inflates MMR and kill rates
Personally, I would think that this is okay to benefit the killer because in the scenario we're trying to get rid of, slugging for the 4k and slugging to bleed out, the killer has already essentially won the game. The problem is not that the mechanic is killer-sided or survivor-sided, it's that survivors are forced to waste their time when they should, in intended gameplay, be going next.
That said, the force bleedout should only be an option in specific scenarios - if every other survivor is downed/hooked/dead, or if it's two survivors left. Letting people suicide out of the game whenever they're downed is a recipe for ragequits.
Under those rules, I don't think that mass slugging as you outlined would be much more common than it is now, though who knows - I wasn't expecting as much slugging for a 4k for a rewardless mori as is happening now.
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@buggybug said:
Really baffles me how something we said no to something but it comes back and ofc for the killer its this finisher but survivors cant get base ub.
I thought the ebony and green moris only going to be exta blood points only if you kill the last survivor woth them but no you can also bring them to kill others.
Basekit UB would be an insane buff to SWFs while not really helping solos very consistently. Yes, it'd nerf slugging for the 4k and probably stop the practice, but it would turn save swarms into an unwinnable scenario for killers who aren't Pyramid Head. When someone's downed under a pallet or out in the open with 3 beamers lurking in the wings, the correct play is to slug, fake pickups to lunge at survivors out of position, and fake leaving so you can catch people trying to heal. If the slug can guaranteed pick themselves up, there's nothing a killer can do in this scenario.
There's better ways to mitigate excessive slugging/the killer's ability to bleed out survivors just to be a dick.
As for the moris, they changed those back because rewarding the killer with bonus bloodpoints only if they get a 4k incentivizes slugging for the 4k even more.
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Same problem. Bardic Inspiration was actually working properly for a few days, but now it doesn't do anything that all - no animation, no effect, just goes on 90-second cooldown.
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I'd really like to see some stats on slugging before and after the change. I'm noticing a marked uptick on slugging for the 4k in my games - it went from being an occasional annoyance to all but a guarantee if I'm one of the last two survivors. I can only hope the novelty wears off soon.
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I'm not complaining. Breakable walls largely fall into two categories - walls that benefit the killer and should never be removed, and predropped god pallets that the killer needs to remove before they can use a loop. Whenever I load into Dead Dawg or Midwich as killer, I'm obligated to do a cleanup loop of the worst offenders before I can start looking for survivors.
There are a couple walls that I think actually succeeded in the original concept, ones that are situational whether or not you want them gone; these are on Badham and The Game. But they're few and far between, and Badham's walls wouldn't be a question if the preschool basement wasn't an unhookable zone half the time.
The two walls they removed in Midwich were another case of actually good breakable walls that the killer could actually weigh whether they wanted them or not. (Or to be extra sneaky and only break one…)
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Ugh. Glad, for once, that I didn't come onto the forums a few hours earlier today. I remember the last time it happened, and frankly I'm pissed that we had to suffer a repeat. Some people really need to get a hobby and a slap in the head. Getting your kicks off whatever miniscule power you can exercise to traumatize others is just deranged.
Appreciate you, mods, and I'm sorry you had to see so much of that in the process of keeping us safe.
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Just had an experience I wanted to recount, since it seems relevant. VSed a Doctor. Two of the teammates were probably a SWF and kept going for flashlight saves, so gens weren't getting done and this eventually collapsed into a snowball down.
The Doctor killed the probable SWF and left me and the other guy to bleed out, putting us into the basement while doing the usual gloating and moving the Tapp back down there when he tried to crawl out. The Tapp eventually wiggled off this way, but I was close to bleeding out, so the Doctor picked me up. I tab out when a killer is bleeding me out, but was forced to return to the game after a few minutes of this because the Doctor essentially had my bar frozen and would not hook me or set me down, and the Tapp would be stuck in the game indefinitely if I let him. He then chased me and kept putting me in Madness 3 so I couldn't do anything, and at one point tried to pretend he didn't hear me in a locker to try and pretend to leave to jumpscare me, but still refused to put me out of my misery. The Tapp started completing gens, so he stopped annoying me to go chase Tapp again, hooked him, and tried to get me to unhook him. At this point I just walked into a corner and went AFK, and he eventually moried me.
More irritating than that player's power trip was the fact that wasting my and another player's time for 10 minutes beyond the point of total loss was perfectly acceptable gameplay, and that I couldn't actually report him for anything despite obvious intentional abuse.
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I don't understand why people feel the need to defend this sort of behavior.
I get the arguments from the angle of 'they're trying to make you mad, just don't take it personally', but it's not just BM. It's a player wasting another player's time while the downed player can't do anything about it. That is not healthy for the game. Barring that it typically doesn't make the recipient want to continue playing DBD… we don't all have all day to play games. 4 minutes is half a survivor match, easy. People should not be barred from going next when they have definitively lost. Humping while bleeding out is not comparable to tbagging because tbagging doesn't take up four minutes of your time.
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Oh jeez, is this true? I've been messing around with a gimmicky Weave build lately (Weave + Human Greed + Hoarder, no Franklins) and I was surprised that people kept healing next to items and doing gens on top of their dropped toolboxes and other seemingly stupid plays. If it's bugged and people can't tell when it's active, I'll stop using it, that's pretty busted.
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Good to know it's not just me. I haven't played that regularly this past year, so I never know what's new versus old news, but I got Borgo a few times this past week and had no idea how to run it. There's so many structures that look like they'd have a resource, but they're just pretty deadzones. And I did notice maze tiles with no window anywhere.
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Tome challenges are frequently locked behind paywalls, whenever they focus on licensed characters or even any character that isn't universally available. You can never fully unlock a tome's lore without owning the character in question. However, each tome always has a path through its rewards that only requires default content, so you can always complete the tome, you just can't get all the rewards. Kinda like the free track/premium track.
I don't think it's that much of an issue that Dark Adherent isn't accessible, since it isn't necessary to reach the epilogue, though it would be nice if they switched its position with one of the Dracula challenges.
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@UndeddJester said:
I ran a meme build, got absolutely demolished on Ormond, but I didn't mind... and no one booped my snoots... 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
Survivors... y u h8? 😭
Dracula is stealing all the snoot boops, I tell you. Pig needs to gather Demopuppy and Xenokitty and unionize! For the good of all snoots!
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
When they first introduced the Deep Rift, I was certain each Rift would have a unique colour palette for the Deep variants.
The blue is tired IMO, I’d love to see a different colour scheme.
Echoing this. I really wanted to see glowing violet, glowing red, neon green… at this point it feels like we're stuck with blue, and while there are worse colors they could have picked, it's a missed opportunity.
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I gotta say, I thought this outfit was a big W. Extra snoots aside (and potential on the Not A Pig mask, whoa, I didn't realize that), I thought it was awesome how they turned the jagged entity claws into boar tusks. Very creative.
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I play pretty friendly (not capitalizing on early possible kills, avoiding tunneling until lategame, going for 7 or 8-hook before I start killing people, reacting to survivor memes) and my experience has been the exact opposite. While I'll still get the occasional teabagger and ggez, I get a lot of dropped items and nodding at the exit gates, and friendly messages in chat. Sometimes survivors I gave an easy time to when I caught them in a bad position will lead me to a hook and pay it back at the end. I've legitimately only ever gotten one -rep in my entirety of playing DBD, and that person was also spamming pornographic links on my Steam so I do not exactly think it was a me problem.
It's possible I'm just at a less competitive, salty MMR, but this generalization doesn't hold true for me at all. People do acknowledge it if they recognize you're playing fair.
While this holds less true while playing survivor, since you have less individual control over the match, I've also seen the reverse happen in times I was nice to the killer (letting them down me again after I wiggled off if their game is going badly, giving a down if their game is going really badly, stopping to nod at a really good play.) This community can be a lot more relatable than we expect it to be if you put a positive foot forward.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
BHVR’s insistence on bandaid fixes instead of addressing the underlying issues irks me to no end.
What they should’ve done is made it so AFK players lose collision, but instead they’ve buffed an already strong building without even fixing the problem.
I cannot understand why they won't do this. People have been suggesting it for years. It's impossible to manually fix every spot where a player can trap another player, so why not stop griefing at the source?
They seem weirdly fixated on keeping the ability for killers to bodyblock survivors at endgame collapse, but if that's their deciding factor, they can just disable the feature in EGC once the game's on a reasonable timer anyway. Otherwise, there is no reason I can fathom to allow players who are clearly not playing the game to be obstacles for players that are playing the game.
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@Science_Guy said:
They added a single window in a former death trap location to prevent survivors from being held hostage indefinitely. If not being able to trap players until servers close is a nerf for your play style… good?
It turns that house into a stronger loop. It's easy to play around the window directly on the top of the stairs, and also easy to recover if the survivor fakes and doesn't jump that window. The gen room window is much stronger both in faking and committing, having both a longer path and an LoS blocker.
That house was one of the easier structures for the killer to play in Badham, when they're also contending with House of Pain, the preschool, and shack.
Meanwhile this doesn't fix the many other rooms with identical trapping potential (Hawkins upstairs gen, various RNG rooms in The Game, any little nook with a totem) which could have been addressed by a blanket solution that people have been suggesting for years.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814957#Comment_3814957
There is 2 problems here. There is 0 good skins in free rift (that was never happened before) and second pay rift is also subjective cause your opinion on it depends only on "are you Castelvania fan or not" so if not this skins is also being mediocre for you.
Eh, I disagree on 'no good skins in free track' being a new issue. There was a St Patty's Day slash Valentines Day rift maybe two years back that was just awful on all fronts. Mostly ugly green and pink recolors and maybe one usable outfit between both tracks. On the whole, BHVR's increased the number of new outfits and decreased the number of filler charms by quite a lot in the past… year and a half? Even if this rift's free track is a miss (especially compared to last rift), I feel we're on a good trajectory.
And I'm not a Castlevania fan, but I still think the paid rift is awesome and I love that they're giving us cosplays and legendaries.
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I really, really do not understand the direction they're taking with map reworks. They were on a roll for a while, but this past year has seen them nerf several things that are already too weak and buff things that are already too strong. At this point I feel they need to start referencing player feedback, maybe get a team of Fog Whisperers to run stuff by, because they are batting L after L and it feels like they're the only people who don't see the problems with these changes.
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It's not the best, but in this case I understand why everything on the free track is a recolor. All the new outfits are Castlevania, and those ones have to be pay-gated because they're licensed content and BHVR would actively lose money on them otherwise.
That said, not super impressed by the recolors we got (and annoyed that Vittorio can only get non-renaissance skins while Gabe can only get space age stuff), though I do think the paid track is incredible.
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I was really happy, personally. They listened to a lot of things people were concerned about. Moris are back, Distortion is back while still killing the permahide strat, Corrective Action was changed, Zanshin got a perfectly happy middle ground, they even tried to fix Skully a bit. I feel heard. Good times all around.
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Also getting this issue frequently tonight. Played a few matches as Dracula, got kicked out for EAC reasons on the fourth, closed the game, restarted it, played two more games, got kicked out again.
For what it's worth, my DBD files are completely unaltered, no portrait packs or the like.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808002#Comment_3808002
Meanwhile there's me randomly getting Knock Out during Chaos Shuffle and not wanting it, lol.
Yeah, I've gotten it a few times too (and I keep getting Insidious for some weird reason, it's been in 1/3 of my killer games… I used it to pretend to be a stuffed wolf in RPD once), but the nice thing about getting nuisance perks like Third Seal or Knockout or Boil Over in Chaos Shuffle is that you know the other player didn't pick them to be annoying, so there's no tilt involved. Also, because you didn't actually want the perk, you generally don't play with it and just pick people up as normal.
Truly Chaos Shuffle is the most blessed of modes.
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I always get caught out by traps that are placed in important loops, but aren't placed right at the vault point.
If you do the obvious spots, like shack window or TL window or right in front of a pallet, you'll catch some survivors but others will disarm every time. But if you put the same trap in some grass at one of the shack walls, or in a bit of fluff between two trees that survivors will path through, you're way likelier to catch.
Indoor maps are brutal with lack of grass, but compensate you with tiny doorways. I try to place the traps a little bit inside the room so a survivor going the right direction won't see until they turn.
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Well, that's miserable. Good thing Chaos Shuffle is here to save the day.
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I can't load the game; it's telling me the game version is invalid. Seems to be a universal problem.
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@SoGo said:
Nurse's Calling is really good actually. I use it quite often. Another perk which kinda fell off is Tinkerer, which I also use often.
Both of them aren't weak at all, people just moved on to something else. Which is a shame, but whatever.
On the survivor side, I'd say Empathy is a perk that just fell off for no reason other then change of taste.
I wonder if Empathy's loss of prominence has to do with the mini claws appearing on chased survivors who aren't the obsession? There's a little less value in the mapwide info when you already know who's being chased, while Bond is better for knowing when a chased player is headed towards you specifically.
Tinkerer fell off after the nerf that prevents it from locking down the same gen, so I at least understand why people stopped using it.
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Now that you mention it, I haven't seen Nurse's Calling in months.
I think it - Discordance too - has just been outclassed by the aura perks we've gotten in recent years. Nowhere to Hide trumps Whispers in most situations, just like BBQ was power crept by Friends 'Til The End (though BBQ also fell off mainly because it lost the bloodpoint bonus.)
I rarely see Ruin anymore even though Ruin used to be very popular in the same state the perk is now.
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The Netflix Castlevania outfits could be in the cards, but I doubt we'd ever get skins of classic Dracula movies on him, as they're part of a different IP and they're not the same character. Castlevania's Dracula is a pretty specific incarnation of Dracula, and Konami's going to want to keep his depiction in DBD distinct to their brand. I don't think we've ever had a licensed character get a skin outside their own license? DBD is free to do that with their in-house killers, and we have had killer skins like William Birkin Blight and Titan Oni, but negotiating anything between two licenseholders sounds like a mess.
So to get an OG Dracula skin, I'm pretty sure we'd need either an OG Dracula license, or a DBD homebrew vampire killer that can then get a licensed or public domain inspired skin.
Though, I'd love some old film inspired outfits in general. Sounds like a great idea for a collection.
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Something like this would have been right at home in DBD's earlier days, but for years now we've been leaning away from items and offerings that provide a strong advantage. I don't think this fits into modern DBD.
Moris are mostly cosmetic in their current state. They can be used to counter saves and anti-hook builds, but for the most part they're just to look cool. A survivor equivalent that gives an extra hook stage is par with the old moris that removed a survivor hook state, and DBD did away with those years ago. And rightly so - it was a killer "I win" button and they felt horrible to go against.
Also, I would say your yellow tier is much stronger than your green tier. A guaranteed free hit in chase would be pretty powerful… again, we nerfed Dead Hard and Mettle of Man for this reason.
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Absolutely bizarre statement when 3-gen meta Skull Merchant was a thing not so long ago. It's hard to top one hour match limit and a killer that won't chase you for boring.
And that's only scratching the surface of builds and killers that have existed over the years, for every definition of boring that you can use. Basement Bubba? Boxblocker Pig? OG Undying? Forever Freddy? Pre-nerf Thana Legion/Plague running pure slowdown? Eruption and CoBercharge?
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Okay, I really want to try that. My god would the aura read be insane.
I don't know whose stacked perks are stronger? Survivors will have insanely speedy heals whenever they aren't broken, but the gen speeds will be nuts; it's resilience + deja vu + PT + overzealous (which will always be 20% because every totem is a hex) + quick gambit and all the skill check perks vs thana + dying light + pentimento (which is easy to get off when there's ruin + devour + blood favor + huntress lullaby + third seal AND plaything/face the darkness potentially hexing up any totems that get booned instead of destroyed), against every gen regression perk in the game at once. Killers will have some mighty kicks. On the other hand, maybe the 8 kick limit would get reached basically immediately via automatic regression events? That can already happen pretty readily with Surge on an indoor map.
But on the survivor side, not only do exhaustion perks not stack, but Sprint Burst renders most of the other exhaustion perks unusable.
Players would have basically constant aura read on each other at all times because every killer aura perk in the game vs Object of Obsession. Also constant screaming. Neither the survivors nor the killer would have any idea what yellow gens mean. The active ability button would be screwed and HUDs would look so horrible. It'd be hilarious.
Though, No Mither is obvious, but there are a few perks I can think of offhand that you don't want on your build unless you're good enough to use them.
-Calm Spirit nerfs cleansing and chest opening
-Deadline increases skill check frequency while making them appear in weird places like they do in Madness. Not good for beginner survivors
-Scavenger will recharge your toolbox if you hit great skill checks, and you'll automatically hit greats because of Stake Out, but then it hits you with a -50% repair speed penalty for 30s.
-Technician nukes gens if you fail skill checks
-Dark Arrogance punishes you for getting stunned or blinded (though, OTOH, Enduring and Lightborn, so I guess it doesn't matter here)
-Actually, every flashlight and flashbang perk is useless because Lightborn
-With a 5 totem cap, worse hex perks might prioritize over the better ones
Blood Warden/No Way Out/Terminus/NOED/Rancor/Remember Me every game, too. Also, Hoarder + every chest perk for mass item shrines. But also Franklins and Weave Attunement.
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If everyone suddenly stops playing at once, you're probably up against a SWF who just decided amongst themselves to go next. Probably they don't like playing against Pigs or stealth killers, but it's possible there was an unrelated reason - maybe IRL, maybe someone forgot to select a challenge. Solos can also have a cascade of people giving up upon seeing other people giving up, but it'll be less unified and more causal.
Though survivors are going to act weird to a Pig in particular because of the boop the snoot meme. You'll occasionally get survivors who don't run and instead crouch up to you.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
They do not. Most of the people complaining about X, Y, or Z character being “mistreated” or “not receiving enough cosmetics” aren’t actually interested in buying or playing that character. They just pretend they are.
Which is why those characters don’t receive as much cosmetics. Because there simply isn’t a real demand for them.
I mean, I main Jane and I feel reasonably justified in complaining about Mikaela/Sable oversaturation, even though Jane is much better off in the cosmetics department than some of DBD's most neglected children. That Character You Forgot About mains do exist, we're just not a sizeable enough wallet demographic to influence anything, which is presumably where the complaints started… and a lot of people bandwagoned onto the message to virtue-signal. Which was great for signal boosting, but not for convincing BHVR that actually making Haddie outfits was worthwhile after they tried it once or twice and got very little for it.
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805123#Comment_3805123
Gabriel has it worse for cosmetics than Haddie does. At least Haddie has a handful of outfits that don't look hideous.
Gabe hurts me. It's like they keep trying to push "the survivor from the future!" onto everything he gets, with fifteen exclamation points, and it invariably turns out wacky. Or it's a linked set. I desperately want him to win the survivor cosmetic contest because it's something that actually looks good.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805208#Comment_3805208
My question was vague but you still thoroughly answered it 😊
I always appreciate your well thought-out answers.
Aw, thanks. Always love seeing you around these parts too - your posts are always a beacon of positivity (and rightful babylonian queen supremacy) 💖
Edit: I just realized you weren't quoting/asking me in the original post, lmao. I think I just saw an L and went "oh hey that me." I may have just woken up 😆
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805195#Comment_3805195
You bring up arguments that are difficult to refute. I respect your pov.
What’s your take on forced bleedouts?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Forced from which perspective?
If it's forced from the survivor perspective, as in the killer can hook the survivor and is choosing not to, that's very bad. There are times I'd consider it vigilante justice within the context of the match, like if a survivor was BMing all game or if they were trolling their teammates or if they refused to play the game and immediately ran to a hook, but on any mass scale, it's just the killer being a dick. I do not accept "I slugged everyone at 5 gens because 4% exists" as a reasonable excuse. One player unhooking themselves isn't going to save that game and it'll still be over faster. I would go so far as to say that most if not all players who claim that are using it as a shield for spiteful intentions.
If it's forced from the killer perspective, it's… I guess slightly less bad, because the killer still wins the game, just has a very annoying timewaster experience doing it. It's insult but not injury, or maybe injury without insult, where survivors get both.
If it's because of Flip Flop Boil Over, bleeding out the survivor is as much an act of karma as it is the correct counterplay for the build. In that case, the survivor chose their playstyle and has no right to complain about the consequences, and beyond chat baiting, I'm pretty sure those players understand that full well. But such games are thankfully rare.
Survivors wandering off in mass slug situations are also annoying for the killer, though I understand why survivors do it and I've done it myself - it's easy to get angry at being left on the floor, hail mary hatch aside. That's the core of the problem - nobody likes not being able to play the game and slugging is in an especially irritating spot where you don't even have the freedom to die, which makes being left on the floor even worse than being left on hook. I do like your idea of basekit deerstalker once everyone's on the ground, though.
And if you meant forced bleedouts as in survivors being able to kill themselves once certain criteria are met - I've always supported the idea, though I also support survivors replacing themselves with a bot instead to preserve the ability of killers to slug for the 4k. Some challenges are pretty obnoxious without it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Had some silly killer games yesterday where i just were fooling around with survivors. and not hooking / killing anyone.
One of the groups started fast vaulting make a lot of noise to annoy me after the gate is open. And i was like
"wow, i was nice and this is the response i get?" it might only be 2 minutes, but its 2 minutes with loud bangs every 0,5 sec.
- Should it be reportable? I think so, as it serves no purpose but to be toxic against the other part.
I choose to tab out and watch some videos instead of letting this ruin my day. - you can do this as well if the killer bleeds you out.
Are you sure they were trying to annoy you? I'm not doubting it, because survivors do that to taunt all the time, but if you've established yourself as a meme killer, survivors will also spam vault because they want you to come over to where they are. Like, I've followed relentless spam vaults to find bartenders and survivors on top of rock loops and item shrines before. And I've also followed spam vaults to find people bail out the gates the moment I show up, or trying to bait me into a shack chase, but in a friendly game you don't know which is which until you show up.
But to OP, unfortunately gotta echo everyone else in this thread. It should be reportable, but it is not. BHVR's stance is that as long as something ends on its own, it isn't griefing, which is a blanket which a lot of unhealthy or outright malicious behavior can hide under. I wish they would address this and I'm consistently frustrated that they will not, because even with the grey area that sometimes bleedouts are necessary or at least situationally understandable, this is an area where there are very obvious bad actors whose crimes can be tracked as data, and these players bring nothing positive to the game and should be punished for the sake of game health.
There are reasons to bleed out survivors; some killers will reach low slug timers by their gameplay, some survivors have unhookable builds, and sometimes survivors crawl away when you want to hook them. Maybe it's karmic parity and you could have hooked the survivor, but they did something to deserve some extra salt on their fries. Who knows. But the thing is, for all the reasons for them to happen, bleedouts are rare in ordinary gameplay. Quad bleedouts even moreso. Even against killers like Twins, Plague, Myers, Oni, or Infectious Fright Nurse. If you have four bleedouts for five killer matches in a row, you the player are clearly doing it to make survivors miserable. And BHVR should have an incentive to stop this, because this kind of completely helpless to someone's power trip experience is horrible for retention of new players, and readily gets vets to go "screw this game, I'm playing something else."
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804348#Comment_3804348
Who the hell actually thinks Zanshin is good in its current state???
The reworked version will actually be usuable, especially on certain killers like PH
Oh, current Zanshin is terrible, but that doesn't mean turning it into one of the strongest wallhack perks in the game is a good change. Especially when it's in the same update that kills the best survivor anti-aura tool. That's more than usable on Pyramid Head, it's meta. I'm All Ears on steroids.
I'd be… somewhat okay with the Zanshin update if survivors were shown that the killer has it, but as it is, it's Schrodinger's wallhacks. The only non-losing play is to leave the loop, but you can't react to it if you can't identify it and there's a few killers who can abuse the hell out of it because they don't need to destroy most pallets.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804180#Comment_3804180
Don’t forget the Zanshin change and Distortion nerf. They’re also pretty awful changes
Yeah, Distortion was destroyed (I was mostly fine with where it was before, but changing it to recharge tokens in chase would have fixed every complaint beyond "this perk gives value and I don't like that") and Zanshin is going to be nasty on killers that don't have to break pallets. New Deathbound might be ridiculous too, since it's basically permanent Oblivious. But I do like most of the perk changes that are not those ones, to be fair.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804605#Comment_3804605
Why though? I mean, it already has huge downside of being hex perk.
The issue with buffing a hex's power but not its longevity is that you turn it into a win more perk. Against good players who've memorized all the hex spawns, Ruin won't survive long enough to get that power boost when the killer actually needs it, but against babies, now they're dealing with permanent 200% automatic regression they won't get rid of on top of them already not being good at the game. And then there's the age-old map issue where you have Midwich/Hawkins/Swamp on one side and Ormond/Eyrie/Autohaven on the other, and totems might require survivors to do full loops around the map with a magnifying glass or might just be sitting next to a gen with a spotlight on it.
Ruin's not in a bad spot, honestly, having seen it both buffed and nerfed compared to where it is now. But if it needs buffs… like most hexes, it needs buffs to consistency rather than power.
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I remember seeing loads of camping and tunneling Nemesis players when the RE chapter was still new, and there's always the Jill meme… but nowadays I don't see hyper-tunnely ones compared to Wraith or Trickster.
Actually, while I'm here, I vsed a Nemesis yesterday who was a complete memelord. Dude was playing to kill and I didn't make it out of the match, but he had a sense of humor about it - he left me to get picked up when he chased me into a zombie blocking my way and I pointed at it, and at one point I accidentally vaulted into the basement (Lery's) and he left me alone after I awkwardly played my lute at him. Dude was terrifyingly on point with his M2s, too. Had a blast.
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The Skull Merchant nuke is very bad for the game, Corrective Action + Hyperfocus is very bad for the game, and the mori offering changes are… not that bad for the game itself, but a negative change for the community and the culture. The finisher mori system is much, much better than its original incarnation, but the fact remains that nobody really asked for it in the first place, so any loss of content to make way for it won't be well received. But it is salvageable, they just have to preserve current mori function.
Apart from that, it's not a bad patch and I quite like a lot of the perk changes, and I'm glad we're getting some Billy nerfs. But they didn't really make any groundbreaking positive changes for people to get excited about and there isn't any new content, so I'm not surprised the bad is drowning out the good.
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Oh, that top Dredge skin is godly. Have a feeling that's going to be our eventual winner.
Voted for that, Koi Spirit, and Huntress. I did like the Trickster skin, but the problem is that we just got a skin that was a lot like that one in the latest tome. Also Trickster gets way too many outfits as it is, he's a clear artist favorite in that regard.
Desperately hoping that Gabriel skin wins - all the survivor skins look great, but poor Gabe doesn't have any outfits that just look good and he's killing it here. Though I really loved Adam, Ace, and Renato as well. Please no Sable. I'm super impressed by everyone's entries (and we got so many cute banners and badges, I loved Cawliflower, Entikitty, Riding Maurice, and Slug Race) but we have so many Sable outfits.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804028#Comment_3804028
It could definitely work for the original4 and either Clown or Legion.
Slightly off topic, was there an option for Scary Movie? I don’t remember seeing it and it’s like my #1 request for a chapter. I’ll give up the Bush for Brenda (okay I won’t but I’ll play them both!).
Brenda is the only survivor I ever want to hear voice lines from.
Me, to every random coming at my gen with the killer in tow: "Darn! Why does that ######### gotta bring that ######### over here?"