KuromiStarwind
KuromiStarwind
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Yeah, Hillbilly, Freddy, and Nurse "like" it, but guess what? It doesn't regress THAT quickly, and going around applying pressure to gens is not being in a chase, so you're delaying doesn't really have a big impact. If anything it'll make survivors pound gens and forgo saving to do the gen they're on.Top all of this off that it is STILL a Hex and can still be destroyed. The maps are so massive that killers that do not have a power that lets them get around them fast enough won't have ANY impact or the ability to take advantage of it.
It also does not do what is needed and why Ruin was used, and that is to delay gens enough at the start for you to apply pressure and hopefully get a hook before Ruin was destroyed, the benefit of it lasting beyond that being a bonus.
So that is why everyone who ran Ruin will now run Corrupt, maybe Corrupt/Pop, all while the devs scratch their heads going "Weird. Why would 80% of killers go from running Ruin to running Corrupt/Pop, Ruin/Surv? Could...could the games core design be a problem? No... no"
Also, if you're a Billy main you should be aware that against good survivors or survivors who play safe, he turns into an M1 killer and he won't even be as good as you believe.
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I switched but also because I have a lot of survivor challenges to play. I played both sides quite a lot either way, though.
Honestly, it's just more fun playing a survivor in the sense that it's less frustrating - not that it's more fun. But that makes it fun, so eh.
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@Peanits said:
We are not. We have mentioned multiple times that if something needs to change about gen times, we're happy to take a look into it. Unfortunately we cannot do that when 80% of red ranked killers are using a perk that covers it up- it makes it impossible to tell what actually needs to be done. We'll keep an eye on it.
You realize that 80% of killers are now just going to run Ruin/Surv or Corrupt Intervention, right?
At some point you have you realize that killers are relying on these things that help at the start of a game against generators for a reason. So you're going two have perks that are still hiding what you want to see.
Did you bother looking at the average statistics for the 20% of people who do not run these perks? Gen completion times, average kill rates, stuff like that? I'm pretty sure that's a decent sample size for you. How did those games without Ruin go? Even ones without Pop.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999420#Comment_999420
Yeah exactly. But that's once again maybe one of the reasons Ruin was nerfed. Weaker killers needed Ruin, but the stronger killers were a bit too strong with Ruin.
I do wish they were much faster with the map reworks and buffs to weak killers.
That doesn't really make any sense, though, because the current Ruin changes actually make strong killers stronger, like Freddy/Nurse/Billy, even Demo, while making weaker killers...weaker.
They make people go from relying on Ruin to simply relying on Corrupt Intervention, and when 80% of killers are using CI, they'll still refuse to see the flaw in the core design and nerf CI.
It still makes me angry seeing a 3 point post about the Ruin/Doc and the other changes on the PTB, and the entire post was nothing but the devs talking about survivors in it. Imagine making all of these changes to a killer, perk, and all you do is talk about it from a survivor perspective, and the changes being made with nothing but survivors in mind. Then you plug your ears to criticism lol
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No, because even the best Huntress is one mistake away from losing a game. She sucks on a ton of maps, she cannot apply a lot of map pressure on large maps or even smaller maps with a lot of LoS breakers, she gets punished on some maps that cannot have or easily have hatchets thrown over some loops.
There are so, so so many things that can make a Huntress just lose and do badly, even the best Huntress' will tell you it. If you're playing against real potatoes, like any killer, she absolutely rekts them if you have decent aim.
The best killer played 100% optimal (which is also 99% unlikely) is still Nurse. Billy can apply a lot of map pressure but the reality is he can be easily looped, especially if survivors play safe, and especially if they assume/know you run Enduring/SF. I would say Huntress is definitely right up there in terms of how practical she is, so I wouldn't say she's not, but the situations for her to be so are very, very few or simply irrelevant when you'd do the same with another killer, too.
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Against potatoes? Yes.
Against good survivors? You will get absolutely punished and destroyed.
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The problem I have is that they're making these changes and not acknowledging at all the core issues of gen speed or at the very least map size/design.
All the Ruin nerf does is make everyone switch to Corrupt Intervention if you're not Nurse/Billy/Freddy. The reason people ran Ruin was for the ability to have setup/time to apply pressure before 3 gens popped instantly.
I'm sorry, but whether it's Ruin/CI, or even Pop, it will not change the fact there is a core flaw with this game. Saying "Just use Corrupt" does not change that fact.
And for the record I think CI is a worse perk than Ruin in every aspect. It does help with large maps, it does help with HOPEFULLY finding a non-entire team of immersed players and getting into a chase to apply pressure, but at the end of the day it's still a "Walk 10 ft to another gen" perk, and when the other 3 survivors don't have to fight through Ruin? Not to mention CI is also only 120sec, too. It's the kind of perk that should be built into the game considering map sizes.
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@JarMa13 said:
Another consideration is to not have OP killers be allowed to use it.
Michael, Freddy.
Who do you all listen to?
Im a killer main. The old Freddy was so OP that I felt guilty playing him. He was undeniably the most OP killer in the game. There was never a time when he could not see the survivors no matter where they were on the map.They had white auras that turn red whether they crouched down hiding in front of you or were across the map. You could always see them. There was no chance for survivor escape. I got 4/4 every time before a gen was done.
All you had to do to make Freddy fair was remove the red auras and I said that over and over again but instead you made him stronger which is hilarious because people hated him because he was TOO STRONG.
TRASH KILLER DOESNT MEAN WEAK.
IT MEANS EASY.
But toxic killers are the biggest problem. As a killer main who gets thank you messages from people I've killed, I know what it is to play fair.
Never pursue a hooked survivor till they're healed. Never hook someone twice till everyone's hooked once. Never kill till everyone is hooked twice.
If I can get 4/4 playing this way, so can everyone else.
I don't expect people to play like me. But I do expect consequences for cowards who use exploits and shady tactics like camping and tunneling.
Did...did you just call old Freddy OP, and call Michael OP?
And that's so cute. Congratulations on being a super cute, friendly killer. Surely, you're the one people ought to go to balance for. "Shady tactics like camping and tunneling" Lmao.
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@DostiL said:
Make 90 FOV the default for killers.
Honestly, small changes like this would go a long way, as unrelated to Ruin as it is lol
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Everyone is a Hillbilly and Nurse, Demo or Freddy. Severe decrease in the amount of Trapper/Hag/Huntress (not that there were many to begin with at red ranks) Severe decrease in the amount of lower to mid tier killers overall.
Overall a lot more of at least green Mori's
Probably a decrease in the amount of "fair" killers who don't really allow for free saves all of the time so they can always be in a chase. Probably fewer killers in general. Either way it's a change that will make a decent amount of people not be in red ranks
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@Johnny_XMan said:
You get more value out of new Ruin if you're applying pressure.... why?
Because you can force multiple people to get off the gen they were working on and they automatically regress without you needing to go there and kick it. That in itself is a big deal.
People that are dead set on it being a "nerf" are going to go with that argument rather than argue what value the new perk brings.
Wow. It's almost like if you're applying pressure to all the gens, you're not actually committing to chases, and the moment you do, all that pressure just turns into wasted time! Did you know that 1 decent survivor at the start of a match will have more than enough time to loop you for 3 gens right off the bat anyway? Even if you're going to "pressure" all these gens, not only are you wasting TWO perk slots, you're also assuming a 115% MS killer with no mobility can traverse these massive maps fast enough for it to be relevant lmao
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Until you don't need any type of gen perk, then there is a problem with gen speed in my eyes. How you fix that is up for debate. The biggest suggestion is reworking the majority of maps due to the size of them. We had Ruin nerfed, but the reality is it will still be 100% necessary to have a generator managing perk. So regardless of your "Ruin" statistics, that's another statistic I suggest you look into.
Otherwise, you need to tackle the things that extend chases, or cause too much time to be wasted. These are things like DS, possible Exhaustion perks, toolboxes, things like that.
I think Ruin being nerfed needs the devs to understand that generator speeds are not okay, and the sooner you accept this the sooner you can balance your game.
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@ninjamediness64 said:
Entitled, low rank survivor main known for gems like:
- “After seeing the crying I’m glad they nerfed ruin. Crybabies deserve it.”
- ”Only weak killers use ruin.”
- ”Killer community is extremely toxic towards devs. I don’t see survivors bullying the devs like this.”
- “Looks like we’ll be losing a lot of crybaby killers. Good for the game.”
- ”DS isn’t even very effective. Killers have no argument.”
Incredible.
He's exactly the type of person these nerfs are catered to. Someone who has no real understanding of the game they're terrible at, most likely. Are people like this really who we want to be listening to?
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@ppo8820 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119024/ds-needs-to-be-reworked-once-and-for-all
I don’t get why people think this is such a strong perk. I just assume they all have it and leave them slugged for a minute. No more DS.
Unbreakable? Because someone being slugged might still be map pressure, but it's also not a hook. Because it's literally a strong perk that isn't less strong because you can slug someone who might have it, when even if they don't have it you're effectively giving someone a 5th perk? Because it allows a survivor to be completely immune for 60 seconds? Because it's easily used in situations that aren't tunneling at all? Because you have to mentally remember who or who doesn't not have it?
I still think DH is more overpowered than DS either way, because you should not be able to tap a button and make it to a pallet when you screwed up and should be punished for it, but instead.. Dead Hard. Just like BT is ridiculous when you aren't punished for unhooking right in the killers face, but it's justified because "camping killers" which is fair, but also only punishes good killers for not being scumbags.
Take a look at all these meta survivor perks that are all used and unfun at red ranks that don't get touched, but evidently since potato survivors who can't handle Ruin can't use said meta perks effectively, well, those second chance survivor perks are perfectly balanced, since this game isn't balanced around non-potatoes.
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I mean I personally think the devs calculated how long the average player will take to complete the rift and specifically made it so that you'd most likely have to drop $20 if you want to fully complete it, on top of the $10 you spent for it. That's why challenges are so inconsistent and tedious at certain points and why it's so grindy.
You'd be surprised how likely people are to spend $20 on cells or how they feel people would use the cells given for free in the rift to use for more rift tiers, and they do this by also giving you the ability to buy the Hallowed Blight skins so that you don't feel like you're getting nothing.
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I'd be patting myself on the back for a job well done, ignoring what people say and will make no changes because I "totally expected" this outrage and chaos. D:<
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Weird how there's countless amazing killers out there, some of the best in the game, that used Ruin and yet we have people like you who sit around thinking that the problem is a lack of skill and not several other things. Like how you don't need Ruin on Billy or Nurse. Do you understand why? Map size? Slow killers? Setup time? Overall gen speed? Map pressure? Etc etc? And why you generally need it on a Hag/Trapper/Huntress? Or let me guess, those killers just need to "git gud".
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Wrong. Huntress uses Ruin. Hag uses Ruin. Spirit uses Ruin. Michael uses Ruin. All of the mid to high tier killers are best using Ruin.
Try again.
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"Killer mains forgot that these previously overpowered, completely busted things that survivors had in a completely one sided game had said things nerfed. Despite still having ridiculously strong perks and being far stronger than a killer a group of skilled players, they're still ridiculously strong.
Wow. Imagine your entire argument and justification for one thing being that you had things that were nerfed, therefore current thing being nerfed is fair. That's a big yikes, pal.
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I rarely played at all during the entire double bp and I'll probably just never touch it again. The Ruin changes + The Doc changes really just hammer down the reality that the devs number one concern is a complete lack of understanding of red ranks, and how they just want to make the game "fun" for anyone that isn't the killer.
I honestly just can't believe these changes. You could have Ruin destroyed before it had a single ounce of impact in the game, when it's needed most as the blog says - at the start, right?
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True. It'll obliterate it :o
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It's almost like fixing gen speeds would remove a lot of pressure on the killer, removing the amount of time management required, and thus would remove camping/tunneling as the killer does not feel like they have to do so due to the length and speed that games go. There is already BS second chance perks that punish good killers for not playing like scumbags, like DS/BT.
It's almost like camping and tunneling have nothing to do with the speed at which gens are done.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
We do - but first they need to get rid of both the bugs causing people to crash/DC against their will so innocents don't get banned, and the reasons people DC if they really want people not to DC. I'm not talking about "oh I died", but they should make it more worthwhile for killers not to tunnel and camp. As well as fixing hitboxes. I would DC too if I got hit by a Huntress hatchet that hit the air 6 feet to my left. I've seen it happen.
And there's countless people that DC because they "totally should've made that pallet" or some other excuse. I don't disagree they need to fix these things but I don't think they're as common as people make them out to be. It annoys me to no end when survivors DC or kill themselves on the hook so I suffer and we lose 3v1.
Guess what? It's frustrating to lose my Ruin in 30 seconds, so I guess that making my future game totally unfun means I can DC. Chainsaw not registering? That's a DC. 4 SWF? That's a definite DC. Why don't we all just DC when we're not having fun because the devs haven't yet made every aspect of it fun :D
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There's just a lot of manbabies who never learned to lose, so they make up a bunch of excuses for why they do something, when the reality is they're just trying to find whatever excuse they can to make being a scumbag okay.
Everything becomes an excuse, every time the killer does something they don't like, they justify it so they can leave. It can't be their fault, it has to be someone else's fault. So these same people disconnect over and over without punishment because they can. Even if something is directly their own fault, or they can't find an excuse, they'll make one up like "Guh, this game is so killer sided, OP Wraith!" and DC when the way they were downed was them being as dumb and ignorant as the posts they make on these forums.
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I think Ormund is the worst map in the game, and I would rather play Haddonfield with every survivor having pre-nerf BL than play on it. How do you make all this massive, big maps with such safe pallets, but then you make a map like Hawkin's that has 30 pallets that are basically all unsafe? Helloooo?
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Ah, right. People just don't "get him" and there's a top secret way that these people need to learn for him to be fun to play.
Oh, wait. There isn't! It's almost like the devs are slowly perfecting how to make killers unfun to play, regardless of how good or bad they actually are. But at least survivors have fun :)
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Wow. What a great argument! Because perks exist to manage the speed of gens, that means the current rate at which gens are done is balanced. You're so smart. Jeez, thank you for listing all of those perks and creating a solid argument.
Hey, did you know that no perk currently exists in the game to counter Head On or DS? Therefore, those two perks are actually overpowered and should be nerfed, if we're applying your logic.
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yikes
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Unless they changed the way her blink works so that she literally auto-aims onto the survivor after you let go of your blink, a killer like her will never functionally work on a console.
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This is just an incoherent vomit of words that have no real point other than someone mindlessly complaining. If you're going to make an argument you could at least format it.
You don't even explain the things you're saying you just say "Lol just another run of the mill OP killer perk, survivors don't have those but all survivors do is get nerfed like balanced landing!" It's almost like BL was the only exhaustion perk that had a secondary benefit, which was abused on far too many maps to "rework". It's almost like you're complaining a busted, OP thing was nerfed. Wow, story of a survivors life.
What you just said is exactly how killers feel when it comes to being frustration or obnoxious. JC what a god damn crybaby, and worst of all an ignorant one. Like, I don't disagree with NOED, but you're comparing one perk to another being nerfed and saying "Wow, they get to keep x thing I think is OP, but you nerf MY OP thing?"
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The Game has some of the safest pallets in the entire game. The area near the bathroom has 2 omega safe pallets, then the room upstairs has 2 omega safe pallets.
So if you're upstairs you can effectively have a room where you use 1 safe pallet, drop down to bathroom, use that safe pallet, go back upstairs and repeat. There's also one behind one of the sets of stairs. It's just that, even to me as a survivor, I just hate indoor maps as much as I hate them as killer.
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It's S tier if you're a brainlet and you only know how to afk on gens because if the killer finds you, you're too bad to actually deal with them. Same type of people who cry about BBQ and Whispers, just overall bad players.
I'm not afraid of stealth killers because I have awareness prior to not knowing who the killer is.
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There's a boatload of unfun stuff that survivors have and do so I don't see how it's always killers that they decide to change, but aight
"Tunneling and camping isn't fun"
Something something DS/BT/Strategy for losing too many gens
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So you're argument is that you can't count on potato teammates? In a team game? You realize that 4% speed boost or not, at least 1 person IS going to go down with the killer having NOED, right? Removing the speed boost would be pretty irrelevant.
If NOED is so common and you get to the endgame so often, consider Hope instead of Adrenaline (:
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The crazy thing for me at red ranks is that even when I do really well, or even if I do kill even 3 people, maybe even everyone, it does not change the fact it's often just a miserable, frustrating experience. I mean sure, I play games against potatoes a lot, too, and that's just as unfun. And that's generally why I just play other games, take a break, playing PoE has been a ton of fun. I see a looot of killers simply playing survivor, and doing the tome challenges so they get something out of it.
I think there's a lot of problems at red ranks that just generally will never be fixed because the devs aren't capable or able to balance the game around SWF or around all ranks. A lot of the tools survivors have are just frustrating, the second chance perks kinda just make me not want to play themselves, so I stick to survivor.
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Why would I play killer when it's so much effort and frustration when I can play survivor and just relax? I just don't care nearly as much when I play survivor as well, and I think that's the 1v4 mentality it forces onto you sometimes. Sure, you can just play to "have fun" but if the only way you can enjoy current state of the game is to ignore everything that sucks and "have fun" there's a problem
it definitely is a lot easier to rank up as a survivor than it is a killer, especially with how 1 person disconnecting, which happens often enough, generally will make you not pip.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/955282#Comment_955282
I'm asking what I can do as a solo survivor with teammates who don't realize whats going on. He said the counter is teammates with good game sense. Since I already said that's out of the picture, I am not wrong to reply to his comment that there's no counter.
That's the same in any game, though. Sometimes you get bad teammates that don't know how to play against something or counter something effectively. There's no secret here that's going to make you win the game in a team game yourself against a killer who is 3 gen no chasing and your team doesn't split pressure gens.
Like, beyond that, what else do you expect? That everything is going to have an easy, clear cut counter? That's not the way it works. And I don't know what game you're playing to run into these killers so commonly and in "several games in a row" but I rarely ever run into 3 gen killers that commit that hard to the strategy, and when they do it's simply a losing battle for them, just a really slow one.
You could just leave the game or let him down you near a gen by a hook, I guess?
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I feel like it was very lackluster and very inconsistent, and the challenges were just impossible or simply annoying and could easily be failed based on several situations that commonly occur. Overall it was decent, but I didn't even complete it because I don't have that much time to play the game and I'm definitely not wasting my money to do so, and I probably won't waste my money on the next one.
For killer they really need to consider just telling you to do x thing based on the killers you own, because that would at least allow for more variety in the challenges, rather than the way it is now which forces generic, unimaginative and repeated "challenges" like do 15 gens, which isn't challenging at all, or do 4 gens with x perk, which is just plain irritating.
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A lot of the maps need to be reworked, just some a lot more than others. Some for their annoyances, the majority for their sizes. Personally I don't understand how there are so many maps with specific buildings that are not only safe and usually have a strong vault, but also happen to have some of the safest pallets in the game. It's the same with swamp, like that map has complete deadzones in a lot of places.
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There are so few of them that even play the game it's irrelevant to justify the state of a killer by simply saying "You can still destroy people as God tier Nurse" When the vast majority of people who played her, or play any killer, are generally just above average killers.
I'm pretty sure even "the best" Nurse's will tell you she's not fun to play anymore, regardless of how good she still is. In fact I guarantee you the main reason people no longer her play her at all in red ranks is not because they can't 4k like every survivor main wants to tell you, but because she is, in fact, simply not fun.
Honestly, it's getting kind of old seeing people talk out of their ass because they're simply happy with the state she's in, when they don't even play her to begin with. People love her at low ranks because all Nurse's are potatoes, people love her at red ranks because she went from being highly placed and stomping people who weren't very good survivors to begin with to being never played.
You'd be better off accepting that this game is now balanced around fun more than it is balanced around gameplay.
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That's a yikes from me dawg
Killer has perk that has two ways to be countered - we really need to nerf this perk smile
Just because your teammates choose to run around to try and find it doesn't mean a perk needs to be changed because they choose to do that. Ruin is the symptom of a larger problem
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Brown and yellow ranks as well as solo survivor are pretty tough
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Yes, that is correct. All of the things that are in the game that are meant to slow the game down are ignored. They are ignored because of the ability for 4 survivors to carry around incredibly strong second-chance perks, which allows them to completely ignore killer mechanics, like Plague or Legion, or completely ignore having to heal in favor of pounding gens ASAP.
Do you know how many times as a survivor my team and I simply get to a point where we mess around with the killer for points because of how easy games can be?
But here's the thing: You complaining about Self-Care in what you're saying makes absolutely zero sense because people don't even use it anymore like they used to. Even IF you made it better, people still wouldn't use it, and if you actually made it as quick and strong as a medkit, it would be broken and only further emphasize the ability to ignore mechanics meant to slow the game down - like being injured :)
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Because they're bad. They're just bad, or they're new, or it ruins their immersive playstyle because they only know how to hide. There isn't a single good survivor out there that is afraid or cares about a Doctor.
But the annoying part? Probably 3 genning Doc's. I suppose it's annoying and slow to have each survivor on 1 of the 3 gens, or 2 on 1, 1 on the other, and slowly complete it while getting 3 gen strated. Which honestly is annoying. It's just a strategy that delays the inevitable. Like, he's a ######### m1 killer that can annoy people, that's his thing
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Either they fix the ways gen speed currently works or I honestly agree. This would also actively free up a perk slot for basically every killer in the game, and thus make every killer just a little bit stronger.
You don't need Ruin to win? Ah, okay. Go play Hag, Trapper, Huntress - let me know how you do without it. Oh, I'm sure you play games with them and win all the time. Did you know I got adept at red ranks on 4 killers in basically every game I played as them? Wow, I must not need Ruin :)
I'm seeing a lot of sentiment on these forums lately that you don't need Ruin. I suppose when a dev themselves say that they don't use Ruin and "still have fun" tells all you need to know about it.
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Bro I just 4k'd as Doc tbh I'm pretty sick of how people just don't understand him like he's obviously amazing and I can rek SWF sweatybois lole!!1
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It'd be more fun for everyone. I'd love to actually see a nice balance of every killer in my games. Instead, at red ranks, you generally only run into the same killers, so survivors whine and complain that the few killers capable of dealing with them they see all the time are OP and they get nerfed. Obviously any killer can be viable, just like you can have 4 potatoes as survivors, if you are good. But just because something can do well, doesn't mean said thing is fine.
Here's the reality you need to accept: The devs are too afraid to balance their game because it continues to be successful. Obviously they're not afraid to tackle some more controversial things, but regardless. Look at Freddy, a basic concept killer that is strong. A good rework. Then look at Nurse, Legion, Trapper, Doctor. Their "reworks" just end up making things worse half the time. Imagine being reworked twice and still being garbage.
At least when I play survivor now I'm never stressed, I never care, I never have the same mentality that comes across to me in a 1v4 scenario. Sure, being camped or tunneled sucks, but it's nothing compared to that sometimes lol
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That's not a "killer priority" thing, it's a dedicated server thing. It wasn't specifically programmed with the idea that the killer gets priority. That's a your latency to the server problem.
Not to mention that the way you say this implies you wan to make dead hard more reliable when most people use it for distance, not for reaction anyway
Tbh I just don't think an already sort of BS perk needs any type of buff. This exact same thing happened off dedicated servers, too. At the same time I don't see it being a big problem if it were to be buffed to do that.
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I mean a lot of people camp and tunnel when they don't need to, and they're not going to be reading these forums going "OOOOH" and suddenly stop because you said it has to.
Depending on the killer, or the map, how good survivors are, if your friendly teammate decided to not make themselves seen so that you don't tunnel the person off the hook, or how fast gens are going, is going to determine whether a killer decides to tunnel you.
There's already DS and BT, which ironically punish good killers more than they punish people who tunnel or camp.
If your team is doing the objective quickly while each survivor can loop the killer well enough, at no real fault of the killers, then you can expect the gens to go fast. Now, you'll either have a killer who will tunnel someone out of the game because they need to if they want to win", or you'll have a killer who will just play the game as they normally would, and not tunnel, because that's fun to them.
I guess my point is, some people are scumbags while other people are simply forced into a specific playstyle because survivors control the pace of a game that shouldn't be in their control.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/937474#Comment_937474
And also, Tru3 and Otz think nurse is in a good spot. Also, there is a brazilian youtuber called Souza Soul that plays dbd, he is also a very good nurse main
But they rarely even play her? And the last game Otz played as Nurse had all 4 people escape I believe?
X good streamer has an opinion on something? Interesting..
That census may as well be summed up as "Godlike Nurse mains will still do really well" Most people who played Nurse weren't god tier, they were just really good. I'm pretty sure none of that would even change that she's unfun to play with her blink charge system ontop of several other things.