Kind_Lemon
Kind_Lemon
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@TheMythicalCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/169872/why-are-95-of-bubba-players-facecamping
If you hold his power too long the goes into his frenzy. They literally added a mechanic to prevent facecamping with chainsaw up.
pfft rarely any sophisticated campers camp with the chainsaw revved. It's Insidious, bait survivors, and then rev.
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lol
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It simply shouldn't work on Tier one Myers. All other killers have work arounds (i.e. not looking directly at the location they are headed). But Myers needs to stalk to change his entire relationship with survivors.
GhostFace? no need.
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I disagree 100%.
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did the killer down anybody during the Tier III Exposed periods? If he did not, he receives nearly half of his power bar back to compensate for losing a non-renewable resource.
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@Seanzu said:
Billy doesn't have a downsides beside just being bad at using him, making the game easier by nerfing loops & pallets made this change necessary, anyone who can't see that is just biased.
He's supposed to have the downside of survivors having an easier time knowing where he is due to the map-wide, directional chainsaw sounds, but since sounds have not been cared for properly, he has almost no downsides. I'm much more in favor of fixing that than changing his chase potential once in a chase. Also, Billy (I believe) wasn't meant to have such powerful turning the instant he starts his sprint, but that coding error which removed a big downside (limited turning on sprint) only benefited high-level play and was left in (which was probably a decision in the right direction for balance).
So, two downsides (limitations on turning and map-wide, directional sounds) have both been waylaid through lack of significant care over the years, and now people are saying he needs the PTB changes because he has no downsides.
Other, player limitations to his ability to down survivors include being cocky about being able to get curves and hits in places a Billy can't feasibly do so.
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Deathslingers are the worst killer to face in this game. A good Deathslinger will almost never miss a shot, and coupled with the whole terror radius music thing, the whole experience makes me want to just d/c. If I don't have an item, I'll typically just sit on gens until I'm downed and then try to enter third state on my first hook.
With Plague, she's usually not entirely annoying to play against, but if The Plague has her power, it's kind of just a "I guess I'll give up on winning now" thing.
Disclaimer: I do not condone d/cs based on frustration/annoyance.
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The only reason I would back a tripping mechanic rn is because I get stuck on too many small bumps/things as a survivor, and if tripping changes it so that I don't just come to a complete halt because of a rock or bump in the level design but only lose some momentum, I'm totally behind it.
(I'm looking at you, paddle part of The Pale Rose, but also Lampkin, Saloon, and that one stairway on The Game).
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GhostFace is the killer people play when they're tired of the whole survivors knowing where you are bc terror radius and survivors' mega map awareness but still want an M1 chase experience plus some occasional grabs. i.e. what Trapper might have been like extremely early on in the game's life.
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@Toybasher said:
I like it. I just hope it's global. (So if you chainsaw on the other side of the map, everyone hears him roar).
Sadly this would make faking the chainsaw to scare survivors much less effective, since they know if you're committing to a chainsaw charge or not, (I used to scare people off gens before I had BBQ by revving up for a few seconds right after a hook)
Reminds me a little of the Scrake from Killing Floor.
EDIT: Oh crap if it's global what'd be the point of the silent chainsaw addons unless they get replaced? Imagine making the chainsaw completely silent and you just hear Billy roaring.
It just seems like a bad idea in general (*cough* tasteless *cough*). I'm only imagining how annoying that's going to get if I'm doing short chainsaws multiple times in a row to try and hit a survivor around a curve. Oh...wait...that's probs won't be possible. Kudos to the devs for promoting backrevs and Millies?
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@Huff said:
IDK if I'm "really really" excited but I do think it will be nice. I've been thinking about running the perk myself recently, because IDK what it is but for some reason flashlight blinds seem to be really hard to avoid recently. I'm usually pretty good about it but I feel like there's times where I'll be facing right up against a wall close enough to kiss it, and I'll still have a survivor off to the side of my screen completely out of my sight hit me with a flashlight while I'm picking another one up.
IDK, maybe it was a change that was made a while back. If anybody has an educational video showing the exact angles that are flashlight-stunnable, let me know. I could just be doing it wrong, but these flashlights seem really out of wack recently to me.
This is happening because blinds are survivor-sided, so even if you end up looking away or even if you get no warning/visible flashlight beam, a full blind will still go through. It's ****ed up any use of flashlights beyond fully blinding a killer, meaning no killer is going to have any issues looking straight into a flashlight beam until the 2 seconds or w/e are up. It's trippy as killer, and it bothers me as a survivor.
Edit: so, thx again for nothing*, dedicated servers.
*excluding d/c penalties, which can be an issue anyway.
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The hatch closing just shouldn't trigger the EGC.
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survivors "respawn" back at the campfire.
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I want adolescent BT back; the one where it only affected the unhooked survivor but had a bleed out timer that relied on healing and not mending. Deep Wounds sucks. Partly this is because the black and white thing was much cooler than the saturation done by Deep Wounds. I could actually see during my bleed out then.
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I'm really, really....annoyed. Why the **** do they think that's good design for Lightborn. Fix the issues plaguing flashlight use outside of timed pickup and pallet break blinds, and then start touching the perks around that.\
It's the entire philosophy of "updating" things just for the sake of novelty and not serving any purpose for longevity or health.
P.S. as a killer, I hate that the flashlights are based on the survivors' ends of things, and as a survivor, I hate that most killer's can't see the flashlight beam and only see the blind. That's so limiting of what kind of non-meta play survivors can do with Flashlights.
#thxfornothingdedicatedservers
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For tracking. Works well with Bloodhound.
Not the greatest effect, but I think that's because the bleeding effect in general should be made more impactful and varied.
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1410268#Comment_1410268
The PTB is mostly for bug fixes, and sometimes to fix some really noticeable balance stuff. Like Oni losing all his power gauge when picking up a survivor making him completely reliant on slugging (changed to the gauge pausing after picking up a survivor) or docs shock having a massive 3 second delay (reduced to 1.5 after the PTB)
Unfortunately, this seems to be true, which I am extremely disappointed about, considering that the only change made in a PTB not implemented was a self-care change.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Then we get the update defenders from the Nurse power rework who keep saying that this update will be fine and continue to defend the Nurse rework by simply saying people are too bad to play Nurse, to explain why nobody plays Nurse after the rework. Yea, I have been playing Nurse consistently throughout the rework and I can tell you 100% as a Nurse main the rework ruined her, she is not fun nor enjoyable and the addon pass was just an excuse to get rid of the powerful addons and giving nothing in return to compensate for what they changed.
Yes. Just yes.
😥I will miss Jenner's Last Breath and Anxious Gasp combo... RIP
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@Seanzu said:
Billy hasn't been "balanced" for a long time.
Billy is very fun to pla against, but almost every Billy I see now-a-days are running Pop/Infectious and slugging for the 4K, it isn't fun, and it's a symptom of the constant changes making it easier for killers as a whole to play the game.
ye, but that's not a problem with Billy's balance, it's a problem with Infectious, Pop, gen requirements, etc.
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There's a kill zone for exit gates. It's much harder to do that for hatch. Since EGC came after the RBT, the above comment's second half doesn't apply as a reason. Hatch should really only come into play if all other survivors are dead, but originating from a time when escaping through the gates after all gens were done as a solo survivor appeared much more difficult, the hatch opens when all other survivors have left. Either that or it's just because it was coded early on that the game only checks when players are gone and not "dead" for hatch conditions (which it still does).
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@Krispe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1390850#Comment_1390850
I definitely agree with you about splitting the community. I suppose a casual mode would only be viable once the game is completely cross-play friendly, so at the time yeah, perhaps casual is not the best idea. Once cross-play is fully integrated it is something I would like to see added to the game though.
As for the toxicity, as I mentioned in my post I would like to be able to read my stats and stuff without seeing in the corner of my eye "tunneling f-word", you know? Being able to have the option to just disable post-game chat would be a really easy and nice QoL change to implement. But I think the devs do need to do something at least about the DCs. Killers lose so many points from DCs, the leave bonus is not nearly enough, I definitely think it's worth their time to look into adjusting it. Thank you for your comment!
about a casual mode:
"Splitting" the community is fine as long as the proportions of killer:survivor is the same, which if casual play doesn't favor one side or the other, will be constant (eg. 20,000 killers and 80,000 could split to 10,000 killers x2 and 40,000 survivors x2). And anyway, this is only the case if the ratios are correct rn, which they are not necessarily, so I doubt a casual and ranked split would make much of a impact on queue times. It could even be beneficial for queue times if some players don't care which gamemode they play (this is all in theory, ofc).
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wut. ofc it's the killer shack. People just say shack as an abbr.
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Yeah, we should be leveling perks outside of bloodwebs and only be finding tier ones for the first time in any bloodweb. That would alos help solve the over abundance of add-ons, offerings, and unwanted items problem.
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You shouldn't be thinking "survivors have three lives". That's one way of thinking that makes the game unfun.
As a survivor, I hate games where the killer three hooks everyone. As a killer, three hooking everyone means that the game should have been over long ago but wasn't because of faults in the hooking mechanics.
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It totally depends on how the match progresses and when and how the kills occured.
As a killer, if I manage to hook everyone in a trial at least twice and two survivors get out even though they're on their last hook, that feels like I've been cheated out of some kind of victory. If I only manage to hook a survivor near the end of the match and he/she dies because there were no other survivors around and if that survivor was somewhat hard to catch, I don't feel great about that kill.
I've often felt like I've lost the game even if I've gotten 3ks solely because of how the survivors died (eg. to the EGC), but I never feel like I've won or tied the game if two or more survivors escape.
If I camp a survivor to death, then that kill often feels deserved especially if all the other survivors were swarming around the hook.
As a survivor, if I escape alone and the killer didn't make a choice between me and another survivor at the last minute, I consider that a big win. If the killer had downed two of us and I happen to be the one to make it out, I don't feel like that's a win.
If there's a four man escape as a survivor, I don't feel that great about my win mostly because it feels like a wasted match (unless I get an achievement, crown, way too many bloodpoints, etc.).
I do, however, always feel like my kills are deserved if I tombstone someone. Survivors who escape from a tombstone match and haven't taken any hooks I feel deserve their freedom (copious bugs not being included rn).
In short, it should feel more satisfying to kill survivors than just 3 hooks one after the other, and if survivors who have all taken two hooks escape, it often currently feels like I've done nothing and that I should deserve something more for my efforts.
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I'm throwing this in here because it's a Poised thread:
Poised: Scratch marks you leave within 10/12/12 meters of completed generators disappear 3/3/4 seconds sooner.
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bc points and I like using my power excessively (often to my detriment in success but a significant increase in fun). I also like making survivors panic/be wary.
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1412352#Comment_1412352
The thing is powers are meant to be situational not an all the time thing so yes certain loops if you can’t zone them out you will have to use a basic attack if you will overheat
Woah woah woah. Did you just pull the "Since I think powers should be situational, it means that they must be" card on me? As in killers are all M1 at base (cough Huntress? Nurse? cough) and only have powers to identify them from one another?
Dude, not cool to assert your opinion as fact like that. I don't tell you how to play Hillbilly to have fun.
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@FellowKillerMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1409703#Comment_1409703
I think it's to reduce the impact of slugging on the match. Survivors really hate it, but the devs see it as a fair strategy, so I think they're trying to find ways to reduce it's efficacy in certain situations. The way knockout is now is pretty OP in certain circumstances.
Like, consider a non-SWF group of survivors going against a killer that can easily down multiple people at a time with their power; bubba, oni, pyramid head(if they're injured). A hooked survivor is saved, but both involved are downed by say, bubba. Let's say he has infectious fright, and another survivor was in range of it, so he slugs the two downed, and goes after the other. The fourth survivor is really far away, say. So, two downed, one now being chased, and knockout preventing the 4th survivor from finding the two that are downed. The match will pretty much be over if the killer downs the survivor he's chasing.
Knockout just makes it really really easy to slug a game to victory when you can down multiple people at a time. By forcing it to be by basic attack, solo survivors will have the ability to at least get an idea of where the survivor went down.
It seems the major issue in your scenario for the survivor is Infectious Fright (a perk that can end games in instants) and not Knockout.
If the devs wanted to change how slugging affected the match, they should have changed how slugs behave.
I appreciate you trying to get into their mindset since I've had a strong desire not to since the "underrated" clown comment.
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@UnknownlyKnown said:
Territorial Imperative has a thing where you have to be 32 meters away from the basement, and it has a cooldown. Make sure you are 32 meters from the basement.
I was around 20 meters away and the icon pinged and then cooled off for about 5 seconds. Like, how did the devs manage to **** that one up?
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You write as if people who don't get 4ks as Billy but have immense fun shouldn't be playing the game. The Billy changes, similarly to the Nurse changes, lessen the fun aspect of the killer while doing little to address the issues most players might have.
The only reason we stopped seeing "nerf Nurse" threads was because people just stopped playing her after the changes, and the people that do are often not the super scary Nurses we'd seen before.
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1412273#Comment_1412273
Please go back and watch the video it only overheats quickly if you back rev too much otherwise it barely goes up when you are sprinting it is a very minor nerf while yes one we don’t need rn since sound is messed up no color blind options and spirit has no counter but it’s something that at a point would need to be done anyways wait until the ptb you will see it isn’t that bad
Yes, I'm aware. I'm talking about revving around pallets to try to get curves or revving just to make survivors not go in a direction. Additionally, that was only a little under ten seconds of use and the chainsaw was overheated by 50%. The revving took up 25% in 2 seconds and the sprinting took up a little under 25% in seven seconds.
I mean, for Billies who just like zooming around the map for fun with double turning add-ons and don't necessarily manage to kill people effectively, this removes their ability to do so.
It's the same direction as the Nurse rework, whether this Billy change is impactful or not. It's a "**** the players who play this for fun while we don't touch the aspects of the killer than super effective killers use to kill survivors easily and rapidly".
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They make changes that some people want, but the way they go about doing so make the changes bad. Additionally, they go around changing things that people don't ask for, receiving negative feedback, and leave it the way it is. I wouldn't mind if they were positively received changes (I can't think of any examples that I hadn't seen asked for. Maybe the graphics? Even then...) or if the devs reverted changes, but they're not and they don't.
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Yeah, the method in which power bars and cooldowns have been introduced recently is not cool.
Perhaps you don't agree, but why does Pyramid Head have a recharge gauge on his power? It's not like instantly refilling the entire gauge is going to give any players any benefit past annoyance relief. Players only use his power in small bursts anyway unless they just want to draw lines and not participate in the rest of the game.
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@RizeAki said:
They did it cuz every other insta down killer has a Cooldown and this Cooldown won’t effect you if you are good with billy and don’t have to back rev too much it’s also to remove the annoying chainsaw face camping
But it doesn't affect Billies who just back rev... they're not the ones using their chainsaws all match. It affects Billies who don't instantly down people when beginning a chainsaw, which is the majority of better players.
None of this makes sense in terms of proper balance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7X7cEh5au8P.S. Even though I like this meme, I think it's cool that English hasn't dominated all name pronunciations.
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@Seiko300 said:
To be fair, people have been complaining about Leatherface for just as long a time, and the only reason they touched hillbilly was because they were reworking leatherface at the time, as chainsaw bros they are kindred spirits.
Everybody is complaining about the changes made to his base kit (that we have yet to test out), but nobody is applauding the fact his add-ons are finally getting the overhaul they needed and he is finally getting his own ultra-rare add-ons.
@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1409539#Comment_1409539
Idc about ultra rare or not. Just take the avaliable addons and put on some red colours if it makes you happy.
Why are people so obsessed with Ultra Rare add-ons? Your desire for ultra rares just because is kind of weird.
I'm with @DwightOP . Idc about the rarities as long as his add-ons are well balanced / potentially interesting and sensible.
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I'm just very confused as to why they are deciding to implement this change. Take a simple perk that's not often used...and make it more complicated and less useful while adding unnecessary bits and bobs to it?
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I vote c.
Side question: does anyone else find the cage animation and caged survivor animations to be unusually sensual and just...weird to be in the game? The little, cute, wiggly bits don't really seem scary, and the survivor opening and closing his/her mouth (in silent moans?) while rolling his/her head around inside is not what I would expect someone to be doing in that situation.
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At this time for me, I get killer lobbies almost instantly and survivor takes a long time. Four hours earlier, I got survivor lobbies instantly and killer is an age-long wait.
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you're meant to be able to blink through closed exit gates
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@BubbaMain64 said:
BHVR only answers questions they want you to ask. It's why their Q&As suck.
#truth
But in reality, they probs read this forum rarely, and the people that do probs have no power in implementing changes.
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I discovered it for the first time yesterday, and I found it amusing bc the players still in the game were very confused when I mentioned it.
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I liked Ruin. It shouldn't have been so easy use at the beginning of the match tho. I hate current Ruin.
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You want this totem rework and NOT just a NOED rework:
Totems
The killer receives seven dull totems at the start of every match. The killer may at any point in the trial place down a dull totem (Default E key) directly in front of the killer's own position (including inside the basement). Pressing the button again when within 20 meters of the totem will apply the first Hex perk positioned in the killer's loadout. Dull totems cannot be within 20 meters of one another and take a total of 2 seconds to place into the environment.
Why is this an important and necessary change (as opposed to some other changes regarding the mechanics of Hex perks)?
The devs shouldn't have to be constantly creating new, static totem positions. Giving totem placement to the playerbase will ensure placement variety for years to come (eg. unexpected Trapper traps).
Below are a few hypothetical situations illustrating the effects of the proposed change:
1. Four generators have been completed and four survivors are alive. Bubba knows that the fifth generator is about to be completed. Even through his thick brain, he knows that he is in a bad situation. Luckily, Bubba has NOED, tier 3. This is, in fact, the only perk he has. Bubba has also not placed down any totems throughout the entire match, not wanting to waste any time setting up appetizing diversions for survivors, so he has seven dull totems at his ready. For NOED and this group of survivors' demise, however, he only needs to use one. Bubba waddles through the corn rows of Rotten Fields off on his generator patrols. Almost as if by some artful craftsman's design, Bubba reaches his targeted generator just as it is completed. The NOED icon lights up. Bubba couldn't apply it to a totem before, but now he can. It is his time to shine. The survivors scatter around the corners of the T-L walls while Bubba reaches deep into his apron and pulls out a small skull. Slowing down, he drops the skull onto the tilled soil, where upon contact it spouts bones and skulls around itself, forming a totem ripe for Bubba's newly acquired power. He grins, or grins as much as he is able to through the stiff skin of his stolen face, and Bubba's mind does something more powerful than it ever could have done without the presence of the Entity permeating every nerve in his body. Bubba lights the totem. 8 meters behind him, as Bubba begins to chase the survivors, the dull totem crackles to life, the fire dormant in the ground below it jumping up to fill the bones with supernatural powers.
Bubba knows that the survivors have seen him offer a totem to the Entity. Bubba grins. Bubba also knows that the Meg he is following has no chance of survival. His totem can't be broken quick enough to save this team.
2. The Wraith treks through the reeds and muck that fill the Swamp. The mists envelop him in his own world separate from the eyes of those without The Entity's blessing. His pockets heavy with seven skulls, he passes through obstacles and wildlife with only a shimmer and a cold draft. With his speed, he is able to place diversions all around the map-- totems seen from kilometers away--only reachable by survivors travelling long distances from their generators. The Wraith doesn't expect all the survivors to fall for his decoys, but he knows that for some, it is too tempting of a prospect to pass up. With six laid out, he brings his final skull, his most coveted, to the depths of his domain, where his power is most connected to the one above. Here, in the basement, the last totem finds a home, tucked just around the corner of the stairs out. The Wraith, with his Territorial Imperative primed, breaths life into the totem, his Devour Hope, and sets off in search of victims to slaughter.
Haunted Ground just doesn't work until two dull totems have been put down.
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@animalmak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1403152#Comment_1403152
It definitely seems like we just have different ideas of what's fun in the game, and that's totally fine! But also if you're playing add-on-less no-tiering-up Myers, you should expect a challenge in the game, so I don't see how going against any variation of squad will change the fact it'll be a challenge. Half the players run Spine Chill now anyway, so there are counters to that without having access to comms.
If I could test it out in the PTB, maybe, but I play on console, so I don't have access to the PTB.
I still don't understand the argument about Third Seal though because that can just as easily be cleansed in the first 30 seconds depending on totem and survivor spawns. Hex perks are always a big risk to run. I cleanse them all for the points tbh. And hidden in the correct spot, I've gotten jumped by an Insidious camping Bubba even while playing on a 4-man. In general, it feels like (and I could be making a huge assumption here) that you feel SWF are always giving each other exact coordinates, and while I can only speak from experience, the best "location" I've really been able to relay to my team is "I'm petting the horse."
I can never think of super specific builds off the top of my head, but I have one that I've been wanted to run forever: No Mither, Iron Will, Tenacity, and Resilience - aka the "I'm always injured but I'll be fast af while doing it" build. If one of those perks gets removed, the whole build doesn't work the way I want it to. But in general, I just like fiddling around with a combination of perks, and some synergize really well, so I want to be able to make the most of having leveled up my chars to get 4 slots.
As to your last question, my opinion is that fun is too subjective for actual changes to be made. What's fun for one killer isn't for another, and what's fun for one survivor isn't for another. Trying to balance it to appeal to everyone is virtually impossible. And the changes here might help killers facing 4-man red rank squads, but it definitely does not help me and one friend clowning around and getting stuck with two other solo queuers (the likelihood of one being absolutely useless too....). I see more 3-4Ks (on both sides) with or without decent matchmaking than I do anything else, and while 'winning' isn't necessarily everyone's definition of fun, it seems that most arguments based around nerfing SWF (and their fun) stem from wanting to win more (and increase killer fun).
There are some really interesting perspectives you bring up in this post, but I'll be coming back to edit this later (maybe? if I remember?) to talk about those. I'm writing this briefly to clarify the Myers' scenario and the Third Seal issue.
Regarding what I enjoy doing occasionally with Myers and the issue of Spine Chill (which shouldn't work on him imo because he has to look at survivors to even become a basic m1 killer), I often go around the issue by walking backwards toward gens/ avoiding looking in the direction of survivors I'm pursuing. If I'm hidden, the only notification solos receive are my breathing or the gestures from another survivor (which I don't mind because it's cool when stuff like that gets used, and there have been some pretty funny moments / confused survivors as a result, but I digress). If it's an SWF group, even if I'm going to extreme lengths to avoid all perks and all other in-game ways to notify survivors of my presence, an SWF comms group can just say, "he's coming for you, and...he's walking backwards...?", which is a bad feeling for me, because I won't know that, and I'm not looking at the survivors to find out that something's happened. It's the feeling of being defeated by something outside of the game that makes that scenario particularly unfun for me.
Regarding Third Seal, or, rather the blindness that Third Seal gives to all players once hit, solo survivors often have no idea where their teammates have been hooked, and I've had a Meg walk up to me in desperation as two of her teammates were on hooks and she just couldn't find them. More generally, it disables any aura perks/items survivors might have, which reduces survivors to only relying on LOS and sound to locate anything on the map. It's most often seen effective with slugging, but that's a sore subject for a different discussion. All that is true for solo survivors. Comms survivors don't give a ****. Sure, they might think, "huh, that's unusual. I guess I'll have to TALK TO MY FRIENDS ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE more than I usually do," but Third Seal doesn't affect them (between each other). Having a SWF do that and knowing that they didn't locate each other based on the limitations I gave them by using a perk far off the meta is deeply disappointing. I enjoy when solo survivors manage to locate each other through Third Seal, but I get a bad feeling mixed with exasperation when SWF just completely avoid the effects of my perk.
I'll finish this later. I appreciate the replies you've made, as they are both useful and interesting!
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Saying "the correct amount of add-ons" when talking about Hillbilly is kind of conceited tbh. It also implies that Hillbilly needs Ultra Rare add-ons and shows how little about balance compared to the illusion of "consistency" you might understand. Please feel free to disagree.
P.S. I disagree with most if not all of your suggestions because you don't
A. explain
and
B. don't address balance issues that might arise from your changes (i.e. just saying Nurse needs cooldown removed without talking about removing her ability to make a long blink short. There's a fair amount I have issues with about Nurse rn, but I'm mainly focused on how unfun she can be for many to play).
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@animalmak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1402701#Comment_1402701
I don't change my killer builds based on my lobby. I play the killer I feel like playing with the build I feel like playing, and the only time that really changes is if I have a challenge to complete.
I don't really understand the argument from the other side, though. Some perks run the risk of not being used - and this is on both sides - and it's the game mechanics that allow for those to disappear. Whether it's SWF or not, if you're running Ruin or Devour (for example), someone will try to cleanse those once they know. I love running Deliverance, but it's just as easily nullified if I'm the first found/hooked. But the point is that I still have that option to run it, knowing the risk of potentially not being able to use it. I really don't think there's a limit in builds and playstyles on either side because of all the options; it's player's choice to run whatever they see fit, but that's the whole point I guess I'm trying to get at. I want to choose what build I run because I purchased the game. As it stands, literally no one is being forced to limit builds and playstyles, but this proposed solution does.
I have also played games on fewer than 4 perks, but it was my choice to do so, not because I was forced to because of SWFing or whatever. And I think that's what really makes the game exciting. I can alter my playstyles to challenge myself or to meme or to try something different.
Hmm, I'm not entirely sure how to respond to you, mainly because it seems out disagreements boil down to you perceiving this change as inherently detrimental to your fun in SWF and my perceiving this change as something that would allow me more freedom in my builds and playstyles, views that we both don't share. While you may not change your loadout depending on the survivors you face, I do. The difference between add-on-less no tiering up Myers against a solo group vs an SWF comms group is tremendous, and I'm unwilling to have the limitations I put on myself for fun to be undermined by comms.
The only possible way for your feelings to change on the matter of reducing at bare minimum one perk slot in any SWF group is to have the change be implemented as part of a PTB, much like how the devs tried out a version of self-care a while ago. It was received badly and was not put into the game, but if it had been received well, we might have had a very different perk on our hands today.
Both of us agree that we dislike being limited in our builds and playstyles (my issue is with information depriving perks such as Insidious and Third Seal and yours is with potential survivor builds (do you have examples to discuss? This would give me more insight into the reasons behind not supporting this change)), but the solution I see to my current issue appears as a potential threat to you.
Since the suggestions we have put forth don't appeal to you, I should probably ask your opinion. How would you suggest the devs (or I) should deal with the fact that using perks such as Third Seal or specific things such as tier one, add-on-less Myers is so much less effective, less fun, and less rewarding (by a significant margin) against a group with communications versus solo players?
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@animalmak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1401840#Comment_1401840
I'm well aware of the issue people have with SWFs. I'm also fairly convinced that most people cry SWF if they're outplayed. Now I play on console, and genuinely I cannot tell if I'm going against a SWF or not (save for instances of like 4 P3 Claudettes already in the lobby). There's probably a way to do it, but I literally could not care less if people are SWF-ing against me because there's always another game if it goes poorly for me.
But the proposed "solution" literally forces people to give up part of the game THEY PAID FOR. It limits builds. Having the benefit of knowing killer location is not worth three perk slots. It's why I could see the argument of removing the one (because comms are like built-in Kindred). Because honestly, any GOOD survivor is going to know how to respond to killer location on the map even if someone's not telling them. I don't need my friend to tell me they're in a chase to know that I should be doing a gen outside of the terror radius. That's just common sense. Knowing if my friend is being camped, however, is useful, and that's something that Kindred would give, so exchanging the one slot (which could just be assumed as Kindred) for the comms makes sense. Limiting people to 1 perk because they're playing with 3 friends is still excessive.
But like at the end of the day, my friends and I die all the time, and we're a mixed red/purple squad, but we just mess around for fun with the game and still get enough done to safety/pip up usually. 🤷
I usually can't tell until it comes down to who's saving whom on hooks or other specific scenarios, so like you, I base my pre-lobby preparation on guesses as to who's SWF.
I'd like to support your second paragraph, but I can just as easily and rightfully so say that I paid for a horror experience that gave me the ability to have effective, diverse builds without worry as a killer but that SWF often ruins that. So, in the game's current state, I am being forced to limit my builds and playstyles from what I PAID FOR all because of an outside comms program with which I have no way to deal. I don't fully agree with the logic behind that statement, but it uses the same argument you pose, which is why I would dissuade you from making the "you can't change it because I paid for it" (*cough* some people with the DS change *cough*) reasoning. As for your chase situation, if I have Bond or Empathy as a survivor, I'm much more willing to sit on gens in front of killers' faces if I know someone else is being chased, and that in and of itself often leads to more gens getting done in addition to a decrease in the tension I feel in the trial. If I can have that kind of knowledge through comms without bringing in Bond or a Key or whatever else, that's an incredible advantage, and it's up to me whether I use it or not just as it's up to me whether I effectively use Bond or not.
I agree that 1 perk slot for four survivors is excessive, but two perks, which is not too far off, is where the debate should begin imo. What I would wish to see is a 1,2,2 perk reduction, but I would settle for the bare minimum of 1 across the board in a heartbeat.
Losing a perk or two shouldn't mean the difference between having fun in messing around and not having fun. I'm sure plenty of survivors have enjoyable games even if they only have one, two, or three perk slots with perks equipped. I've been doing a lot of one-perk solo survivor games for the crown cosmetics, and they haven't been necessarily any less fun than games in which I have a full loadout.
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@MrPenguin said:
I'd rather recharge than an even longer fatigue. She needed something done to her, we can't just go back to old nurse. People can still do really well with her and steamroll any team, she just needs her bugs fixed and maybe something so she's not so unfun to play. Maybe remove fatigue and just keep the recharge, but make it longer. But fist her bugs need to be fixed.
fatigue is important. Not being able to blink because of a recharge is the more unlikable part.
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Rather than your suggestion, what you need is this: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/144182/on-generators-addressing-preliminary-repair-interactions#latest
or, rather this: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TH_VEduElchZf_4Qa3gX3WEjRiJjy47cvda6ABl-I_o/edit?usp=sharing