It's 2020 and the bloodweb still hasn't been reworked

Canas

Could you please for the love of god rework this nightmarish grindfest which is the bloodweb? I've invested MILLIONS of bloodpoints into a certain killer and am still trying to get a certain perk for them, yet the bloodweb REFUSES to even give me a single tier of said perk.

This kind of RNG nonsense shouldn't exist to begin with, there need to be changes. Please lower this absolute dependency on luck, instead allow killers to immediately get perks on their bloodweb which they acquired earlier via teachables.

Clinton

It's never gonna happen imo

The devs want it to be a grind for perks. If they didn't, something would have been done by now.

Canas

@Clinton said:

It's never gonna happen imo

The devs want it to be a grind for perks. If they didn't, something would have been done by now.

It's still absolutely ridiculous that I've invested several millions of bp already and still can't get the damn perk I want. There needs to be an anti-bad luck insurance, at least give killers the choice to get the perk they want after a certain amount of investment.

Blueberry

The blood web got a rework probably not even a year ago now.

KingFrost

They really should reduce the BP requirements.

Everyone I've talked to about the game say they think it sounds really cool. They even watch streamers play the game. But they won't play it. Why? Because they wouldn't have the perks they want to play with. That's a real barrier of entry for a lot of people. The grind should be reduced, and unlocking perks should be easier/faster.

Speshul_Kitten

It’s fine to me the way it is. We used to get less BP for offerings and we only had 2 perks to choose from when we hit tier 50, and even had less Blood Rush events. Be more thankful.

TheRockstarKnight

@Speshul_Kitten said:

It’s fine to me the way it is. We used to get less BP for offerings and we only had 2 perks to choose from when we hit tier 50, and even had less Blood Rush events. Be more thankful.

I mean, just because things are better than they were doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't be improved.

Kind_Lemon

Yeah, we should be leveling perks outside of bloodwebs and only be finding tier ones for the first time in any bloodweb. That would alos help solve the over abundance of add-ons, offerings, and unwanted items problem.

Speshul_Kitten

@TheRockstarKnight said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416071#Comment_1416071

I mean, just because things are better than they were doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't be improved.

It’s already been improved by a lot. Players even have the Tome where they can gather millions of extra bloodpoints overall from challenges.

Dacrenon

I think a small improvement would be if, at Prestige 1 that character's 3 teachables were automatically at Level 2 to start (and as Prestige 2 were automatically maxed).

With Prestige 2 the perks from the free pool could skip level 1 and start at level 2, then Prestige 3 they'd be maxed and the only things you'd need to level up at that point are teachable perks from other characters.

I think that would save a lot of bloodwebs without breaking the game, but I'm not sure how many would agree with me.

BubbaMain64

Are you seriously asking for BHVR to make a genuinely good design decision? In 2020? Are you okay??

HarleyQuinn

I wish there was an OPTIONAL way to quick-buy an entire bloodweb, even if it randomizes and splits it with the entity.

It just sucks when I’m levelling up a survivor or killer I don’t even play just to get their perks. I don’t care what perks I get along the way in that case. I just wanna get through the webs fast.

Thypari

Anyone thinking about new players? I started 2 months ago...

The whole "unlocking perks"-mechanic is bad game design: The more characters the longer it takes to unlock the perks you want/need. New players have a better time not unlocking shared perks at 30,35,40 unless they are meta perks. This in combination with the ######### matchmaking makes people either play the characters they want and lose ranks or keep playing with other characters while just leveling up the characters they actually want to play. Veterans don't even see the issue because they have amassed so much BP that they can always just unlock everything for new characters. The game literally punishes you when playing a none-max level character

Every 10th level there should be a "Rainbow" Perk Symbol to unlock, which just let's you choose a perk.

Bjario

I've spent 5mil bp´s on my Zarina now, and still havent unlocked every perk yet! They really need to do something about this

DwightOP

My bigger issue is the SPEED of going thro the bloodweb. It's such a slow ass process. HOLDING M1 (as if he don't have enough hold M1 mechanics already) for second to consume something and then wait for the entity to pick something. These few second add up quickly. If you need idk 10 minutes to spend 1 million bp you could get it done in under 7 minutes when the process weren't that slow. Imo the need to speed it up first.

DwightOP

@Blueberry said:

The blood web got a rework probably not even a year ago now.

I wouldn't call it a rework, more like a QoL addition. Still a massive grind fest with a super slow process for leveling up.

Jesya

\

@Bjario said:

I've spent 5mil bp´s on my Zarina now, and still havent unlocked every perk yet! They really need to do something about this

Just had a friend start the game.... the unbelievable amount of grinding they have to do is making them want to quit after 1 week.

DwightOP

@HarleyQuinn said:

I wish there was an OPTIONAL way to quick-buy an entire bloodweb, even if it randomizes and splits it with the entity.

It just sucks when I’m levelling up a survivor or killer I don’t even play just to get their perks. I don’t care what perks I get along the way in that case. I just wanna get through the webs fast.

Oooh I would live a quick buy bloodweb. I hate leveling up. It's such a slow and boring process and the M1 holding is to tedious.

cheetocultleader

@[Deleted User] said:

It was already reworked a long time ago. Hence legacy.

I'd prefer they just get rid of perk tiers entirely and come up with a better system.

+1. Removing tiers alone would greatly reduce the grind.

@[Deleted User] said:

I think the biggest design flaw with the bloodweb system is that you are essentially punished for owning more DLCs (really, teachables) due to how many niche or outright mediocre perks fill up the bloodwebs as you acquire more characters. Made worse by having those mediocre perks become legitimately useless at lower tiers.

Imagine coming into the game and knowing in advance what the meta is, and simply only buying those characters that have the perks you want, or even further, only leveling them up for specific teachables and avoiding the teachables you don't want. You would most likely end up getting those perks much quicker than veteran players whenever a new survivor/killer came out, which is just mad.

If we stopped getting horribly underbalanced perks maybe it'd be less of an issue, but considering how BHVR always seems to defend said perks here, I doubt that'll happen.

"Punished for owning more DLC" is on point.

@DelsKibara said:

https://i2.wp.com/nerdlodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/killerbloodpointsdbd.png?fit=1920%2C1080&ssl=1

We all know Dead by Daylight is known for it's Grind. It's what keeps us playing the game, it's what keeps us going through the same loops over and over again and it's why we love to play this game getting as much points as we possibly can for every single match. It's why farm games exists and why (some) people love it when they pop up because it gives them a chance to get a ton of guaranteed bloodpoints for everyone involved in the match.

With that said, I think The Massive Grind is going to become a real issue real soon. Especially with new players who are just joining the game and started playing.

I calculated the amount of Bloodpoints needed to get every single character to Prestige 3, Level 50 with all Perks obtained. Prepare to see some huge numbers.

Since I want to talk about new players specifically, I'll focus on the one thing most new players will most likely do when they first start playing the game. Get as much teachables as they can as soon as possible. Because they want to have fun builds, they want to be able to survive against Killers or Survivors who have (arguably) better perks than them. So let's just assume this New Player wants to grind for every teachable in the game. First they would need to level every Character to Level 40 at a minimum.

It takes a minimum of around 1,250,000 Bloodpoints to get a single character to Level 40. Let's then multiply that with every character that is currently in DBD, there are currently 21 Survivors and 19 Killers. Bringing the number to a total of 40 Characters to level up to Level 40. Which brings the amount of Bloodpoints you need to 50 Million Bloodpoints. If you show this to a new player, they would find this to be incredibly daunting and tedious.

But I hear you asking, "Kibara! Not every one of those characters has perks that are worth to grab!" And you would be right. So let's just remove the characters whose entire perk deck are not in the current meta, very situational or are just not worth to grab in general (Bolded Perks are up for debate on whether or not they are worth getting):

• Ace Visconti (Up the Ante, Open Handed, Ace in the Hole)
• Quentin Smith (Wake Up!, Vigil, Pharmacy)
• Jeff Johansen (Distortion, Aftercare, Breakdown)
• Ash Williams (Mettle of Man, Buckle Up, Flip Flop)
• Steve Harrington (Babysitter, Camaraderie, Second Wind)
• Zarina Kassir (Red Herring, Off the Record, For the People!)
• The Huntress (Beast of Prey, Territorial Imperative, Hex: Huntress Lullaby)
• The Demogorgon (Surge, Mindbreaker, Cruel Limits)
• The Oni (Zanshin Tactics, Blood Echo, Nemesis)
• The Deathslinger (Gearhead, Dead Man's Switch, Hex: Retribution)

And with that, we eliminated 10 (at least in my opinion) characters that you don't need to grind for because their perks are (arguably) not worth to grind for. That still leaves us with 30 characters whose perks are definitely worth grinding for though. Not only do these 30 characters have useful perks, some of them are downright powerful that you would be nuts to not get as soon as possible.

You would be nuts to not go for Dead Hard or BBQ & Chili from the start of your DBD Career, because these perks really REALLY help out a lot in escaping, chasing, detecting or even giving you free Bloodpoints.

Now that we have that sorted out, how much BP do we have to spend now?

37,500,000.

That is STILL A LOT of Bloodpoints. And to any new players, if they saw this number they would find that incredibly discouraging. Because they see the cap is 1 Million Bloodpoints, so they would think 1 Million is a lot of Bloodpoints.

Oho, but we're not yet done with the Grind Train yet, my friends. It gets even more exponentially expensive. It's like playing an Idle Game except you need to always be active to gain cash.

Let's assume those new players become regular players, and they want to fully prestige their characters. They see those bloody outfits and they want their own characters to look like that. Well, if they want to fully Prestige their characters with level 50 on all of them, lets do the math again then, shall we?

To get a Level 1 Character to Level 50, you need roughly around 1,750,000 Bloodpoints. To get A SINGLE CHARACTER to Prestige 3-50, you need to multiply that number 4 times. Meaning the grand total amount, the MINIMUM amount you need to spend on a single character to fully max out their levels is 7,000,000 Bloodpoints.

Yikes! That's already around 1/6th of the amount of Bloodpoints required to gain every teachable that is worth it in the game.

And of course, per our formula, we need to then multiply that number by 40 (assuming they want to prestige every single character in the game to it's max level). After that, we get a grand total of 280,000,000 Bloodpoints to max out every single character is this damn game.

That is a ridiculously large amount of Bloodpoints. I've played for 1.5k Hours in this game and I've only accumulated around 100,000,000 Bloodpoints myself. But hey, you can argue that it needs to be that expensive because Prestiging a character is Optional. You don't have to do it, which is why it's so expensive, it shows you're willing to put more time into the game. And I get that, it is meant to be more of a reward system for loyal players rather than an actual grind you have to overcome.

But what if you want to experiment with Perk Builds? Something that is a part of the game, and arguably, half the fun of Dead by Daylight to some people (myself included).

You would obviously need every single perk in the game to be able to actually experiment with the perks you want to play with. And here is where the massive numbers come in.

It takes roughly around 35 Million Bloodpoints to get every single perk in the game, and that is already close to the minimum we need to get for every single TEACHABLE that is worth to grab from the various characters in DBD. Reduce the number you need for Level 50, and you still need 33,250,000 Bloodpoints. (Keep in mind, I am assuming this character is Prestige 3, which means they already need to spend 5,250,000 Bloodpoints already on a single character.)

Arguably, you can be conservative and say that since every Survivor plays the same. You only need to get it for one Survivor and you'll be able to play with every perk in the game as much as you fancy.

But what if you play Killer?

Every killer plays differently, meaning not every build will work for every single one of them. You may need to mix-and-match separate perks to see what works well for you for that particular killer. So, you might end up grinding Bloodpoints to earn every single perk in the game, for every single Killer in the game if you don't have a single main you always play as.

Meaning, once again, we take the number 38,500,000 Bloodpoints (Assuming they start from Level 1), and we multiply that by 19.... And we get...

731,500,000 Bloodpoints.

And that is the best case scenario, that is assuming the Bloodweb doesn't screw you over by eating up multiple perks at once which has happened to me loads of times when I was maxing out Spirit. That is still a ridiculously huge amount of Bloodpoints, especially for Killers.

Now, if we add up every single Survivor as well, that number skyrockets to...

1,540,000,000 Bloodpoints.

Seeing this number and doing the math makes me think that perks like BBQ and WGLF are sometimes Mandatory because of how ridiculous this grind can be.

This reminds me a lot of PAYDAY 2 prior to them adding the Crime Spree mechanic. You needed to grind hours upon upon of XP to get to Infamy-XXV and you get diminishing returns because doing the best heist in the game for XP over and over again will incur you an XP penalty. It was brutal and unforgiving.

With Crime Spree, yeah the heists became harder but the rewards became much more worth it, it became much more rewarding and the time spent to grind greatly diminished making it easier to grind for Infamy-XXV.

But DBD has nothing like that, With BBQ you'd be lucky if you got 64,000 Bloodpoints in a single match. I just cannot fathom how someone, especially DBD Content Creators, could spend that much hours, that many matches of the same game to max out every character in the game to it's fullest potential. It must be a huge feeling of relief when you finally reach there.

After doing the math, I really hope BHVR takes a look at BP gains, or at least the Bloodweb Mechanic. Because right now DBD is incredibly hostile to new players, and it's driving people away more than it encourages them to stay because of that looming grind over their heads. And I think it would be better for the game, and the playerbase as a whole, if the grind was not this huge.

That's all I have to say regarding the Grind in Dead by Daylight.

Thank you for coming to yet another one of my TED Talks, it is now 6 AM and I have not slept.

The grind is just stupid big. Every time this comes up, I post this thread. BHVR is going to have to do something eventually, since with each new DLC these numbers go up.

Deathslinger

It’s current year everybody!

Also, I like the Grind but I also get Grind Fatigue. Maybe if BHVR wants to get a lil more money they could let me spend 5 bucks to get double bp earned for a week. So like, it feel like I was using a 100% add on bonus every game. I don’t care if it stacks.

Throwaway123

@Clinton said:

It's never gonna happen imo

The devs want it to be a grind for perks. If they didn't, something would have been done by now.

Which is to their detriment. I have several friends that were interested in the game until they learned how much they would have to grind just to get 1 character a set of tier 3 perks, let alone getting teachables and then also getting those perks. The grind is ridiculously bad in this game even after the changes they made and it only gets worse with each new addition to the game.

DecemberMan

Can't upvote this enough. They WILL have to do something with this at some point or another.

MojoTheFabulous

I know your pain. I was leveling Pyramid Head looking for B&C and it was the very last perk to show up.

I wouldn't say the bloodweb needs a rework though. I feel like having the ability to get 2 perks in a single bloodweb should happen much earlier than level 40 (not counting the few times you get to do this before then)

calem

@Jesya said:

\

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416170#Comment_1416170

Just had a friend start the game.... the unbelievable amount of grinding they have to do is making them want to quit after 1 week.

Yep. My roommates also have played a LITTLE bit of DBD with me (like 30 hours or less), but none of them have committed to the game because they can't use any cool perks. It seems I made the terrible mistake to waste hundreds and hundreds of hours into this game and I am still severely lacking in the perks department for my characters.

@Speshul_Kitten said:

It’s fine to me the way it is. We used to get less BP for offerings and we only had 2 perks to choose from when we hit tier 50, and even had less Blood Rush events. Be more thankful.

This is really flawed logic I see people talk about whenever this topic is brought up. "It's better than it used to be" "Be thankful". With the same logic, me giving a homeless person $2 hasn't solved their homelessness issue. But they should be "thankful" and "grateful" because now they have $2. The grind isn't an issue for people who have played thousands of hours. It's an issue for literally everyone else (90% of the player-base).

Really though, a bloodweb rework and something about BPS gains or costs needs to be adjusted so the grind isn't as massive as it is. It's extremely off-putting.

CrowFoxy

It did, just recently at high levels you can begin choosing 2 perks instead of just one!

Wow! Amazing!

KSzerker

Since they've added more perks to the bloodweb, I think the next QoL improvement would be removing some of the RNG, which is where I think most player's frustration with DbD's grind comes from. Having some of the perk nodes let you choose your perk would be one such option. 

EuphoricBliss35

@Canas said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416035#Comment_1416035

It's still absolutely ridiculous that I've invested several millions of bp already and still can't get the damn perk I want. There needs to be an anti-bad luck insurance, at least give killers the choice to get the perk they want after a certain amount of investment.

Invest more, all my babies are max ;)

Yes it is annoying. If I’ve noticed anything with bhvr though, be careful what you wish for

SketchyPenguin

What bothers me is that teachables are tier 1 when I start to use a character. They're supposed to be the master for those three perks, they should at least have them at 3 since the beginning.

Also as soon as Entity starts to work on the bloodweb, there should always be two perks (I think right now there are two perks every 10 level until you reach level 30 or 40, if I'm not wrong)

xenotimebong

@Speshul_Kitten said:

It’s fine to me the way it is. We used to get less BP for offerings and we only had 2 perks to choose from when we hit tier 50, and even had less Blood Rush events. Be more thankful.

And at that time there were fewer perks and fewer characters to unlock the perks on. Those minor changes only stopped the grind from worsening too badly, they didn’t make it better.

I play pretty much all killers, which means that there are 72 perks with three tiers each that I can unlock on 20 characters. That’s insane. I don’t care to unlock everything on everyone, mostly because I know it will never happen since I have a job and a social life. But even unlocking the things I want on a handful of killers takes too much damn time.

Jesya

@Speshul_Kitten said:

It’s fine to me the way it is. We used to get less BP for offerings and we only had 2 perks to choose from when we hit tier 50, and even had less Blood Rush events. Be more thankful.

Every 3 months 6 new perks are added to the game... it is not fine the way it is. When the bloodweb had 1 perk per web, blood rushes etc there were way less perks, killers, survivors in the game.

It is not sustainable the way it is now with 3 tier'd perks and new perks being added every quarter. It is not new player friendly at all and most people won't stay to grind out the millions and millions of bloodpoints to unlock everything, let alone unlock everything on their favorite killer/survivor.

CertArn

@Speshul_Kitten said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416080#Comment_1416080

It’s already been improved by a lot. Players even have the Tome where they can gather millions of extra bloodpoints overall from challenges.

You know... It is like putting on piece of s.it nice, red bow and some glitter. Is it nicer? Yeah, but its still piece of s.it.

Leveling in this game is a NIGHTMARE. Even while getting 50-70 points in one match its still sucks. Im having more playable heroes, but its still grindy, unfun mess and waste of my time. :/

Devs shuld admit it - that was bad idea, cut it from game, unlock perks.

Akito

bloodweb, shrine, loadout, prestige, dailys