TheMythicalCat
TheMythicalCat
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Since no one brought it up, Surveillance. With his high mobility, knowing exactly which gens survivors are working on is amazing. It works good on it's own, but pair it with Ruin/Surge/Oppression and it's very, very useful.
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@PleassBuiltInNoed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860048#Comment_1860048
agreed with adrenaline, except for its mostly used in the best way only on red ranks and that is not leaving generator no matter what just to finish it and then you just leg the killer in few second to another loop while the rest is opening the gates, another reason why its op is because you get it after being unhooked, meaning full heal + sprint burst, it also ignored the fact that you are exhausted
but ds is unavoidable on its own aswell, unbreakable just gives you alot less options to battle that perk as it removes slugging
dead hard is mostly used to extend loops, thats why its so problematic, its a free life by just pressing a button, why cant killer have a perk that does one health state damage when he presses E?
borrowed time is situational, but when a coordinated team has this perk you literary cant do anything usless you have some form of instadown which mostly you dont
pallet perk is kinda meh anyway
DS you can just avoid the unhooked guy. If you go to the hook after an unhook, you can probably find the unhooker, meaning you can just ignore the DS. If you can't, slugging them is still effective, even if they have Unbreakable. And if you don't go to a hook after they get off, the only time DS will hit you is if you get unlucky and come across the only guy with it active. Sometimes multiple can be active, but it's not very common unless you're playing very well, or they mess up a lot. So it's a 1/4 chance at best to come across the active DS at random (Which is still bullshit and should be nerfed).
Unbreakable removes options but still can be countered. Unless you're playing Nurse, Oni, Myers, Twins or Plague, you don't need to slug that much. And even with those killers, usually there isn't more then 1, maybe 2. So if you get multiple downs, you'll probably still have a guy on hook to keep pressure up. Unbreakable is really only an issue when paired with DS, which makes someone invincible off of hook. It can save games, I've lost games because of a single Unbreakable before, but those are rare unless you slug a lot.
People dead-harding to extend loops is not that common in my experience. Most of the Dead Hards I run into are used outside of loops. When it happens, there isn't much you can do, but I don't think there's really a way to change that without a rework, and if any perk needs a rework, it is not Dead Hard.
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@PleassBuiltInNoed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858493#Comment_1858493
none of your arguments about perks youve chose make sense
they all have plenty of requirements and counterplay
whereas perks that author of this thread mentioned have 0 counterplay and killer cant do anything to avoid them you just simply have to eat it and be forced to waste your time
Adrenaline doesn't activate if you kill them before gens are done. If gens get completed while carrying a survivor, dropping and immediately hitting them gets rid of Adrenaline
DS is only unavoidable when paired with Unbreakable, with the reverse being the same
Dead Hard is only unavoidable when it's used to extend loops, most of the time it's not used for that
Borrowed Time is hard to avoid but doesn't waste much time, and wastes the time of the person you hit by forcing them to mend
The pallet perk is countered by just breaking the pallets (and really isn't that strong)
They're strong, but the only time they're unavoidable and wastes a lot of time is when paired together, which means they put 2 perks to create 1 unavoidable situation. Once they use an Unbreakable/DS, they lose that ability. It's strong, and it's annoying, but the only way they can create an uncounterable setup is by dedicating 2 perk slots for one use. I do think it should be nerfed, but they most of them do have counterplay right now. Having counterplay doesn't stop something from being a second chance.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858493#Comment_1858493
You're complaining about Spirit Fury/Enduring and Nemesis?
I'm not complaining, I don't think a lot of these are good. I'm saying that they are, in fact, second chances. Just like the bad Survivor second chance perks. Not an issue, but they are second chances. The original post said that Killers don't have second chance perks. Not that they don't have good ones, or viable ones. That they don't have any at all.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859556#Comment_1859556
NOED: take a risk to be lazy or actually do a side objective
Blood warden: Predicting your opponent doesn't exist
Oh no a 2 second pallet stun becomes a 1 second pallet stun for giving up a whole perk slot and doesn't affect the 2.7 second breaking time buying you a minimum of 3.7 seconds instead of 4.7
Spirit fury its not used to negate punishment its used as a tool for m1 killers to gain more bursts of momentum at a cost of 2 perk slots
Undying kinda
pop is gone
NOED: Wastes a lot of time if it's not in the match, not always easy to find every totem, not run every time so it's not always worth going for
Blood Warden: No one runs this perk. No one is going to predict you're running it, because the only reason to run it for memes. It's not great, but it's still a second chance
Enduring: That second matters, and makes it much less punishing to get stunned. The survivor cant' leave the loop if you have Enduring, they'll get caught in a bad position
Spirit Fury: It still negates punishment because it compensates for it. And I'm talking about just Spirit Fury, which doesn't have much use outside of compensating for getting stunned. It reduces the time needed to catch back up to them, and gets rid of the pallet for free. Giving you reward for messing up, just like all the other second chance perks.
Pop: Still gives you a second chance on gens. 15 seconds being removed doesn't change that. You just have to be quicker with it now.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858493#Comment_1858493
Noed: survivors are lazy free instadowns
Bloodwarden: Survivors aren't playing smart no one can leave
Enduring: Helps you play agressive if you are scared of getting pallet stunned
Spirit fury: Punishes survivor mistakes of not noticing they had enduring and probably also have spirit fury because they are only run together
Nemisis: I don't know how you even see this one as a second chance perk
Pop: Get rewarded for playing the game kinda like adrenaline so its basically the closest thing to a second chance if you count it that way
Undying: Survivors are too lazy to cleanse more than one totem easy permanent ruin
Survivors are just lazy/don't play smart these aren't second chances they are usually wastes of perk slots against actually good / smart survivors
you just want to defend your rainbow of second chances of reasons to not spend time becoming a skilled survivor
NOED: Not ran every game, wastes a lot of time getting rid of it
Blood Warden: It's encouraged to stay behind and rescue hooked survivors, even in EGC. There's no way to know the Killer has BW until it activates
Enduring: If you mess up at the pallet, you hardly get punished for it
Spirit Fury: Can be ran without Enduring (much less effective, but still doable), still negates some of the punishment from getting stunned, aka messing up
Nemesis: Helps mitigate the drawbacks of getting stunned by letting you track that survivor and activate obsession perks (this one is the least second chance out of all of them though, I will admit that)
Undying: Still covers up the drawbacks of not defending Totems, allows you to just ignore them and get their effects for a while
I don't play Survivor. Ever. Don't just assume that everyone who disagrees with you plays the other side. That's a bad mentality, and wont help you convince people of what you think.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859424#Comment_1859424
the survivors have to hand you your second chance for both, especially blood warden. That 25% chance is only usable when some one is hooked which happens after you down a survivor. It rewards you for doing your objective it doesn’t just hand you a second chance you have to work for the perk to kick in
Yeah, and Adrenaline only goes off when the Killer lets the gens be done. Unbreakable only goes off when the Killer leaves them on the ground. DS only goes off when they get picked up after getting off the hook. These things are unavoidable sometimes, you can't avoid being downed forever, sometimes you have to leave someone on the ground, or have to pick them up. Just because they require the other side to activate them doesn't mean they aren't second chances. A lot of strong perks rely on the other side to work, including a lot of second chance perks. This isn't an argument against them, because it applies to a lot of second chance perks. Of course, this applies to BW too.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859252#Comment_1859252
Hmm yes I forgot that every killer can see and teleport to both exit gates then down every survivor there. Your argument about bloodwarden being a crutch is extremely weak. Same as the one for pgtw it’s impossible for the killer to stop ever single survivor from working on a gen at once unless there’s a killer that allows you to hit one survivor but make all the others take the same damage state.
Please point out where I said Crutch. Or any of the things you're claiming I said. I never said it would win you the match. But if the gates are blocked, and you're near them, it gives you the chance to catch a survivor in a situation where you literally could not otherwise. You cannot catch a survivor at the exit gates unless you're running Blood Warden. That gives you more pressure, and more chances to get more kills, in a situation where you could not before. On some killers, like Oni with his power or Plague with Corrupt Purge, it could easily get you 4 kills off of one hook, if used at the right time. If that's not second chance, I don't know what is.
And for Pop, I never said it could defend every generator at once? A perk doesn't need to defend literally all of the gens at the same time to be considered a second chance. It gives you a second chance on a single Generator every time you use it. That 25% gives you a second chance to defend a generator when you probably couldn't without it. A perk doesn't need to ######### defend every generator on the map to be a second chance, or even good.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859154#Comment_1859154
it is not a requirement to save people if they get downed after the gate is opened fire you go for the save you should be well aware of the chances that you could die by risking your live especially if you mess up. Except adrenaline heals you and gives you distance while pgtw only allows you to get rid of 25% of a gen after you chase someone hit them( twice in some cases) and then hook them all while hoping no one hopped on that gen before you go back to it and hope the timer doesn’t run out.
It's not a requirement, and it does punish Survivors for messing up, but it also rewards the Killer for letting the gates be opened in the first place. It provides a benefit only after the Killer messes up.
That's a terrible argument, don't even try that. Adrenaline goes once per match, PGTW goes a ton of times throughout. Of course Adrenaline will have a bigger effect when it activates. And again, this isn't about viability, it's about how Killers do have perks that cover up mistakes. PGTW helps cover up mistakes. Blood Warden helps cover up mistakes. They are second chance perks.
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@r4g3_qu1t3r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858638#Comment_1858638
Well, besides clown:
The RNG of the traps spawns isn’t fixed, so, it will be matches (a lot of them, actually), when you will not be able to even use all his traps, because you need to forget about all the survivors and go to a dead end of the map (and lost 3 generators in the way!!).
Wraith is completely invisible beyond some distance. How useful! Actually, now he’s at the same tier at Freddy, since that is the most powerful skill! It will help a lot in chases. Or getting to places quickly. Or anything besides not be seen.
Those tweaks aren’t enough for those killers.
I didn't say the Killers are good now, but they did get buffed, and they are improved. Wraith and Trapper do need more, but this is still helpful. I still need to see Clown in action to see if he's fixed, but nothing else in the patch will be meta. Both sides got small buffs. This isn't a survivor sided patch.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858820#Comment_1858820
Do you really expect Clown to be more popular with 1 1/2 buff? The speed buff can also affect survivors.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858836#Comment_1858836
Ruin is trash. Even on killers with mobility. Why? Because the killer can only chase 1 survivor at a time. The other survivors will not notice that ruin is there, since it has no slowdown on gens that are being worked on.
Pop is also trash, because 20 seconds of additional repair time (for a single survivor... for 2 survivors it will be 11 seconds). Its roughly the amount the killer wastes breaking chases and walking to a gen.
Yes, the speed buff can effect survivors, but only if you mess up. The only way it will speed up just the survivors and not you as well is if you ######### it up badly. Anything else, and at worst it will do nothing and give both of you the speed boost. Not to mention the fact that the purple smoke cancels the effect for survivors, so if you use it right they'll hardly gain a boost at all. It will just take still.
So, you chase one guy. His gen is regressing. You hook him, someone else has to go for the save. 2 gens. You find another person, that's 3 gens regressing at double speed. Pair it with Surveillance, and you get really good Gen tracking. Want a specific gen to regress? Defend it hard, they can't tap it to stop the regression. For Pop, that 20% can save a generator by itself. If you use it on a gen and survivors don't come back to it, it will regress a ######### ton. If they're nearby and want it completed, those 10-20 seconds can give you enough time to catch whoever's working on it. Defending a Gen without Pop is WAY harder then doing it with. Plus the mental aspect of taking away a quarter of a generator can cause survivors to leave it. Both of these perks are viable.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858830#Comment_1858830
Blood warden only blocks People if they don’t leave making it the survivors fault not a second chance. Yes spirit furry gets rid of 1 pallet after you break 2 at the least. The stun still gives survivors enough time to get to a close enough loop unless you dragged the chase to a dead zone ( once again survivors fault). Pgtw doesn’t give a second chance it rewards you for doing your objective of hooking survivors.
Dead Hard most of the time punishes Killers for not baiting it out. There are times where it's just a free loop extension, but most of the time it's not used like that. And it's encouraged to save hooked survivors in the endgame, where BW activates. That's not them messing up since they couldn't know about it, and are encouraged to stay behind.
Spirit Fury still helps you catch up faster by creating a path. Without it, if you didn't break the pallet, you'd have to go around the entire loop. As well as the fact that it does get rid of a pallet, rewarding you for getting stunned.
PGTW only works on hook, just like how Adrenaline only works when gens are completed. Both are still second chances.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858793#Comment_1858793
Ruin is trash.
Same goes for Pop.
The meta will go back to were it was before Undying existed.
Ruin is really good on any killer with mobility. PGTW is great on nearly every killer in the game, being able to instantly regress 25% of a generator is really good. Just because it's not as good doesn't mean it's #########.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858493#Comment_1858493
Two of those got or are getting nerfed. Spirit furry isn’t really second chance you still get stunned, if you get hit with blood warden maybe just leave when the gates are open. Noed is the only slightly excusable one but ya know it can be taken out of the game pretty fast
PGTW and Undying still give you second chances, which was the original argument.
Spirit Fury gets rid of the pallet, meaning you don't have to worry about it for future chases and gives you a quicker route to catch up to the survivor, if they run, and catch up instantly if they don't know and don't leave right away.
Blood Warden gives you 60 seconds to catch survivors while they have no escape, you'll probably catch at least one person if you play well.
NOED still gives a second chance, which, again, was the original argument.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858694#Comment_1858694
Yeah, expecting an actual buff for the weakest killer we have, was obviously to optimistic.
5 second reload to 3 second reload isn't a buff? The ability to increase your movement speed by 10% isn't a buff? Both of these things without a single nerf isn't a buff? The ability to ######### up doesn't make a killer bad. It just makes them harder to play, and in this case, gives more chances for good plays at the same time. That's a good thing. You can just not use the speed boosts in loops and you'll still be playing with several good buffs.
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@Nosferatu3145 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858715#Comment_1858715
The meta for survivors is still the same tho, with no counterplay, the meta for killers got nerfed. All the other perks that no one used before will not be used now as well, but that's not news
There's still a lot of perks that can take Undying's place. Ruin is still good, and Pop didn't get effected at all. The Killer Meta will probably just revert to what it was, which was still strong.
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@Nosferatu3145 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858621#Comment_1858621
These "buffs" will not even take them out of the low tiers. They still will be unviable against decent survivors.
And I doubt any of the perks buffed will become meta either, none of them where huge.
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@Malum_Midnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858678#Comment_1858678
I have to disagree. Getting hit by pallets aren’t mistakes. Do you see what happens when killers respect pallets all the time? They lose. Killers do have them, but not to the extent you said.
How is it not when it gives survivors a lot of distance? Sure, there are times when getting stunned isn't terrible, but you can be punished pretty badly by letting it happen. If you don't respect a pallet, and don't get a hit out of it, that's a mistake. One Enduring, Spirit Fury and Nemesis all activate off of. In those situations, without those perks, respecting the pallet would have been better, meaning that not respecting it was a mistake.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858621#Comment_1858621
Now the clown can help survivors escape faster.
Ammmmmazing!
So you can get punished for using a power badly? Oh no, the horror!
If you're that scared of letting them escape, just don't use it in a chase, use it for mobility. It's optional. His reload speed got a buff. Giving a killer more room to make good plays while adding a penalty if you ######### it up isn't a nerf if everything else about them is the same/better. This is objectively a buff.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858493#Comment_1858493
NOED: You lose all gens? Free insta-downs
Bloodwarden: Gates are open and you hook someone? No one can leave and they're probably [BAD WORD]
Yeah, I guess that's why NOED + Bloodwarden is meta now, killers use it as often as survivors use DS+unbreakable. NOED does not even guarantee you a kill: anyone hooked during endgame can be unhooked and gets a free escape if he has DS. Meanwhile, DS indeed guarantees you 60 seconds of god-mode. Moreover, NOED can easily be countered by survivors. Now tell me how to counter DS? Saying "just don't tunnel, lol" is almost the same as saying "just don't finish all the gens, lol" in this context.
Enduring: You get stunned? Don't worry, it hardly matters
Spirit Fury: You get stunned? Goodbye pallet
Nemesis: You get stunned? They're your obsession now, you see their aura, and they can't hear your terror radius
Getting stunned by a pallet is not a "mistake". You either get stunned or respect it: one way or another you waste some time. Enduring and spirit fury just give you the ability to finish loops earlier by never respecting and always eating the pallets.
Pop Goes the Weasel: Gen going too fast? Just [BAD WORD] remove a quarter of it
Yeah, but if you lose a gen - you lose it for good. PGTW does just that: makes the gens slower, just like a whole category of other gen perks. They make the objective slower to complete, but there is no way to truly undo a completed objective.
Undying: Totem gets cleansed early? No it didn't, it's already back
Undying is already dead now.
I never said they where meta. I said that they where second chance perks. Don't move the goalposts. Being given a speedboost and the ability to insta-down anyone is powerful at all times when gens are done, not just off of hook. And you get it by losing. In a situation where someone gets unhooked while NOED is active... you can just instantly knock down the unhooker. DS doesn't really have a counter if you can't instantly knock down the unhooker, but that doesn't matter while NOED is active.
Getting stunned by a pallet is a mistake. If you're in a loop, making the wrong call and not respecting a pallet when the survivor drops it lets them gain a lot of distance on you. Enduring reduces that distance, Spirit Fury removes the pallet for future chases and can help you catch them quicker, and Nemesis tells you exactly where they ran to. Getting stunned without Enduring on it not a great idea unless you manage to hit them through a pallet, you're just giving them free distance. And if you don't hit them through a pallet, guess what, that's a mistake that those perks help cover up.
There's no way to bring back a sacrificed survivor either, what's your point? If you let a Gen you need to defend get to 99%, that's a mistake. With almost every other perk in the game, it's really tough to defend that gen when it gets there. But with Pop? Does not matter, a 75% gen is way easier to defend. Second Chance.
Undying still gives totems a second chance, it's just less effective now.
If you want to discuss the viability of second chance perks, then do that. Don't act like Killers don't have them then change your argument when someone says otherwise.
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Clown got faster reload speeds, and got a new type of bottle that speeds players up
Trapper's RNG got changed so early escapes are harder, but later escapes are easier, making them much more consistent
Wraith is now fully invisible from 24m away while cloaked, has the same shimmer when within 16 meters, and the shimmer gradually becomes more visible between 24 and 16.
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You are aware that 3 Killers got buffed, right?
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Ruin Undying was way more oppressive.
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@VSchmitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858472#Comment_1858472
Yeah it really doesn't since clown will be giving MS to survivors, wraith still will be seeing in 16 meters and trapper is still an RnG killer that doesn't rely on traps to get downs but to set a web in the late game.
Clown will only give MS to Survivors if the player is bad. If you're that worried about Survivors getting movement speed in a chase, just don't use it in a chase, use it for mobility. Wraith being invisible from that far away is extremely helpful, you can hide yourself when you get close enough but don't have to worry about people seeing you from across the map, and you can get close to people without taking the long route to avoid being spotted. And Trapper's RNG got buffed to be more consistent.
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If you want to go that route:
NOED: You lose all gens? Free insta-downs
Bloodwarden: Gates are open and you hook someone? No one can leave and they're probably #########
Enduring: You get stunned? Don't worry, it hardly matters
Spirit Fury: You get stunned? Goodbye pallet
Nemesis: You get stunned? They're your obsession now, you see their aura, and they can't hear your terror radius
Pop Goes the Weasel: Gen going too fast? Just ######### remove a quarter of it
Undying: Totem gets cleansed early? No it didn't, it's already back
Killers do have second chance perks.
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Nevermind the three killers who all got buffs, and no nerfs to any killers, those don't count at all.
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I support this fully
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@Unironicalygoth said:
was just thinking about how fun the game would be in Vr specifically the killer roll
No.
First, there's the crouching problem. The fact that being able to crouch is an ability for two Killers should say enough about how giving it to everyone would be a bad idea. POV would have to be static, which would feel weird in a VR game.
Then, Stuns. One of the main parts of stuns that make them good is the fact that you're forced to look down, hiding where the survivor goes to afterwards. Forcing camera movement is a bad idea in VR, so stuns would have to be nerfed to not make people throw up.
Any Killer that moves fast is off the table. So no Wraith, Hillbilly, Nurse, Leatherface, Pig, Spirit, Legion, Demo, Oni, Blight, Twins. Also, any Killer that requires aim is also off the table for balancing issues, so no Deathslinger, Huntress, Plague or Clown. Trapper and Hag wouldn't work either, not only does the animation requirement mean that the player is either; forced into an animation, which feels bad, or they have to do it themselves, which means more balancing to make up for the fact that people can mess up. As well as crouching to place traps would not be fun.
The only Killers who could make the jump fairly easily would be Myers, Doctor, Freddy, Ghostface, and PH. Every other Killer either wouldn't work, or require a lot of balancing and testing to make work, as well as some other issues that would either need rebalancing, or to feel bad on the VR side. I'd much rather they focus that work towards the main game, which is proven to be good, then a VR mode, which might not be.
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Wraith ranks up really easily, and I've heard Legion does too.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1740820#Comment_1740820
Sure there are killers deterred by DS but there are some who aren't, etc. DS isn't the very effective anti-tunnel tool you initially declared it to be, my sole point was to address that. I think DS needs some fine tuning but absolutely the changes need to weigh the Survivor's experience. The existing iteration of DS, can help with tunneling but it isn't anti-tunnel. That's an important distinction. The suggestions are always about improving the experience of The Killer and watering it down so it's less useful outside of tunneling (I agree) without also addressing how it isn't always useful when you are in fact being tunneled. If you allow yourself to go down or jump into a locker within the allocated time doesn't guarantee you will get to use it bc The Killer will often altogether bypass DS. So yes, some Survivors go out of their way to use DS with bold plays bc Killers go out of their way to circumvent it. This is why it is hated (for those that don't tunnel but get hit) and for the segment of players that love to tunnel freely. And on second rescue, you're a prime target for an insta-tunnel and rehook. So that's also a problem.
DS can help with tunneling but doesn't always. I agree, narrow the scope and reach of DS so people can't use it beyond getting tunneled but it must be effective at achieving the stated goal.
No perk is always effective it the intended situation, unless it has a small effect. Unbreakable doesn't always help with Slugging. Adrenaline doesn't always guarantee a heal in certain situations if the Killer knows what they're doing, and it doesn't always even activate. Save the Best for Last doesn't always help you get the second hit. Pop Goes the Weasel doesn't always help keep gens up. Same with Ruin. Why should DS be any different? The effect when it works is strong, it shouldn't always work. That's how it is with every single other strong effect perk. The old DS didn't have this problem, which is why it was changed. If you weren't right beside a hook, you could not avoid being stunned. Making it 100% effective would bring back that old issue, where if you have to go after the person with DS active, you can not pick them up. You'd have to make a survivor completely invincible to stop Killers from tunneling them, people will always Tunnel. The best outcome is you waste a ######### ton of their time for doing so, which is what DS does right now, and does so very effectively.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738245#Comment_1738245
That's your opinion but keep in mind you said "a very effective anti-tunneling tool." I disagree with that statement and outlined why. You haven't introduced anything compelling enough to change my mind. DS can provide some relief once per trial assuming you hit the Skill Check, which people can miss and do so within 60s. Yet you can be tunneled twice per trial and tunneling can exceed 60s. This singular opportunity of potential relief, largely dependent on the skill of both players, isn't the anti-tunnel tool you claim it to be That was my point. I agree that it needs some tuning but the first order of business should be the experience and perspective of the impacted party: the Survivor. People want to suggest a laundry list of deactivation conditions and requirements which benefit The Killer but provide no real support to the Survivor that has to endure being tunneled twice most games. I'm all for balance and fairness, but tunneling is a Survivor sided problem first and foremost.
I main Killer, and unless I'm playing really bad, I can down an injured survivor within 60 seconds of finding them, usually much less. If you're really worried about the timer running out, you can just let them down you before it does so they get stunned, or jump into a locker. That's not really an issue. If you're able to loop the Killer for 60 seconds while injured, while out of position, you don't need DS.
DS only works once per trial, but you only ever need it at most twice. A perk that gives you a powerful tool when being tunneled one of two times you need it is very good. Just the existence of the perk discourages tunneling. I know that if there's an obsession in the game, I'll never go after the unhooked survivor unless there's literally no other option. And I think you're underestimating what Survivors can do with a 5 second stun. This guarantees that they make it to a very good loop, where they can loop the Killer for a long time. It's not perfect at getting the Killer to not tunnel you, but it punishes them harshly for doing so, leading to your team gaining a massive advantage.
The only weaknesses of the perk is that you can only use it once and the fact that it's on a timer, but every perk needs counterplay. And every single perk in the game has counterplay. Right now, the only counterplay to DS is waiting for the timer to run out, and eating the DS so that they can't use it again. Both of which you're complaining about, and are implying you want changed. You can't just remove all current counterplay, especially since you're saying that you want this done before improving it on the Killer side. This would create a period of time where the perk would have 0 counterplay, and the Killer playerbase would sink by a lot. It would create a meta where the unhooker hides, and the unhooked forces the Killer to go after them and eat the stun multiple times per match, or give up their pressure entirely. You can't balance for one side while completely ignoring the other, you have to consider both sides with every change. Removing the counterplay WOULD make it better for Survivors. But in doing so, you're ######### over the Killers. The perk is already strong and widely hated, people would quit the game over this.
Imagine if they buffed old Ruin so that it's harder to get rid of, or so that Great Skill checks regressed Generators the same way Good Skill Checks did. Survivors would be quitting left and right, and rightfully so, as it would not be fair to them. Buffing an already strong and widely used perk to remove counterplay would cause mass groups of people to leave. If you want to buff DS, you have to nerf it at the same time. If you want to remove the current counterplay, you have to add some somewhere else. You can't just buff one of the best perks in the game because Killers are able to get around it sometimes.
DS already does it's job by harshly punishing Killers for tunneling (as well as naturally deter them from trying to tunnel), and doesn't need the only counterplay removed.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1733475#Comment_1733475
Lol a very effective anti-tunneling tool? Which perk is that? Because it certainly isn't Decisive Strike. A lot of the suggestions about the perk have to deal with The Killer's perspective and The Killer's experience, yet being tunneled is a Survivor sided issue. It's something the Survivor has to deal with. I'm all for narrowing the scope of the perk provided that it is in fact effective at dealing with tunneling. The existing iteration of the perk does little to help with being tunneled. DS it's more of a Chase extender and more likely to be a delay of the tunnel but ultimately you will still get tunneled. It's still extremely easy to circumvent the perk in its entirety.
It's anti-tunnel because it punishes the Killer for tunneling. If they want to tunnel someone with DS, they need to catch and down them, eat the 5 second stun, and then go and hunt them down again. Depending on how good the person using DS is, they could run the killer for half a minute before needing to use DS, which is almost half a gen with a single person working on it. Then another 5 seconds with the stun, and then another chase that could last even longer due to the stun letting them go anywhere they want, and the Killer could lose several Gens because they tunneled someone running the perk. How is that not an anti-tunnel perk?
And people complain about how the perk effects Killers because it punishes them for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Having someone be unhooked, downing someone else and hooking them, then getting DS'd after finding the person again is not that uncommon.
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DS just needs to have a deactivation method. Either another survivor gets hooked, you get fully healed, or you start working on a gen. With that, it will still be a very effective anti-tunneling tool, but wont punish Killers for leaving the person alone and finding them again before the timer runs out. While another anti-tunneling perk wouldn't be the worst thing, we already have two, one of which is just a better version of this one, and the other being one of the strongest perks in the game.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1732666#Comment_1732666
I found it here but the information could change https://www.leaksbydaylight.com/dead-by-daylight-chapter-18-original/ it says that the next killer can be bought with Iridescent shards if it was the Wentigo or the witch from L4D and Until Dawn then you would need auric cells.
That was mentioned in this post, re-read the "What we know" part
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Because I trust that Survivors are able to leave without the Killer escorting them out.
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Just because you don't have something doesn't mean no one should have it
I get why you want it, and I don't recall there ever being a reason for there not being Chat on Console, but they shouldn't exclude everyone from it just because some can't have it.
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@TAG said:
I dunno, an item that only exists to get another random item faster than normal seems preeeeetty useless as an item. I dunno if keys would necessarily still be tied to opening hatches if they were re-worked, but I can't imagine a key that only opens a chest faster.
What if they lowered the rarity on them, allowed you to instantly open a chest, and raised the chances of getting a high rarity item? That way you could bring a yellow key and potentially get a purple item, but runs the risk of getting something of equal/lower value.
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I always use a slow-down perk. Even if it's just Thanatophobia, I'll always run one. I generally run Sloppy, Thana, Pop or Ruin on any Killer, occasionally Surge. If it was better, I would use Dying Light all the time too. But I can't really imagine playing without any slow-down perks, Gen pressure is easily my weakest part of play.
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@Pawcelot said:
There's just too many downsides for it to be worth it. I rather have him as he is right now.
The only thing worse about this Clown is the fact that he only has 2 bottles. Everything else is a strict buff.
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One time I hooked a survivor, and turned around and saw a few fresh scratch marks. They didn't lead anywhere, and there was a locker right beside them. I quickly checked around the structure, and found nothing. I made a guess they where in the locker, and they where. Makes me a hacker I guess.
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Likely either on the 20th or 27th
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@ Antares2332 said:
If so, I think it would have less pressure than now, it will also be annoying to recharge bottles every so often and it will seem like just an M1 killer
Reloading bottles would hardly slow him down, so the less bottles would have less of an impact. But since his bottles can also be used for map pressure, I wanted to make sure it wasn't too overwhelming.
@bubbabrotha said:
I feel like his passives aren't enough to compensate for the downsides.
What would you recommend?
@bjorksnas said:
Maybe just add the walking in your own gas speeds up by 2.5% with the 115% base rather then make him a 110% speed. because he would then have even less map presence be cause he now gets everywhere a second or two slower
He's only 110% when reloading. He's still 115% any other time.
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Deathslinger's first buff is nearly useless. Landing shots even 15 Meters away is VERY hard to do, which is why the Iridescent Coin is bad. Anything more and it would be nearly impossible. Not to mention that you would HAVE to break the chain if you landed that hit.
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Yeah, they should buff that many perks at once. That can't go wrong at all.
They're taking their time. Be patient.
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Really fun. Much stronger then Legion and Clown.
He's my best Killer right now, and let me tell you, when you get good with his power, you'll see how good he is in a chase. When you can land your shots (which, if you're good enough, you will), you'll be ending chases very, very fast. Most loops without a tall barrier are unsafe for the survivor, especially if their healthy, since breaking the chain still injures them. In a lot of pallet loops, it's small enough that if you land the shot over the terrain, you can drag yourself around the loop and hit them. Not to mention that the small hitbox that makes his shot hard to land, allows him to shoot through gaps in loops, scoring easier hits. He still suffers from being slow, and his perks are not as good as Legion or Clown, and takes more skill to do well with, but as a Killer, he's much more viable, and has a much higher skill ceiling.
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Killer DBD is way more stressful then most online games. Your margin for error is WAY smaller then most games, where wasting 20 seconds can lose you the match. The only thing that's come close to DBD for me is Fighting Games, and that's because they're similar in the fact that a single mistake can cost you the match. Shooters are never this stressful unless you play at the top level.
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Any Killer is worth maining, except for maybe Clown. All that matters is if you enjoy them.
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What happens if the gates are powered? Why should the Killer be punished for doing the only thing they can do? Most Killers can't down people fast enough to catch them before they leave, so camping is the only play. They shouldn't be punished for that.
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Trapper needs better Trap spawn locations (closer to the center), and to have one of his bags + maybe darkened traps.
Wraith being completely invisible won't help that much, making Yellow Windstorm permanent and reworking the Windstorms would do so much more for him.
That wont help Legion. The issue is that his power is the exact same when it ends, no matter how well you did with it. And it's not that powerful to begin with. This just makes him less fun to play against. Make it so that the cooldown is decreased for every person he hits in a single Frenzy, and he could actually down people after hitting them with his power.
Hag doesn't need buffs
Huntress doesn't need nerfs
Pig changes are good
Freddy isn't OP, just really annoying. If you want to nerf his snares, you gotta buff something else in return. Maybe the cooldown on his teleport is even faster for every survivor alseep.
Clown changes just make him another Huntress. He needs a complete power rework.
Spirit + Ghostface, I could see these being fine.
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@slim0b said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444615#Comment_1444615
Yes such combos are what give Perks like DMS value in the first place. I don't see a point in just "Blocking" the gens you can just wait out the blocking then finish it instantly
If you wait out DMS, then it did its job. Gens take 80 seconds by default to complete, by the time DMS runs out you could have gotten another Gen halfway done. Wasting up to 45 seconds is a big deal. The weakness of the perk is that you need to hook your obsession, not that the gens can't regress while it's active.