Kalinikta
Kalinikta
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- Kalinikta
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As a company they made a choice to release something that they knew was not done. It has little to do with the price point or schedule.
Do they have budgets, targets and all that they want to meet sure. Just because you cannot meet a deadline doesn't mean you have to force it and release an incomplete product.
This choice reflects badly upon their priorities as a company. It isn't anything else than that.
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Borrowed Time is one of the better stronger perks for survivors in my opinion in terms of balance. It rewards team work and has a strict limited lime frame and provides a 1 hit protection with speed burst at the cost of deep wounds. Either navigate around the survivor or hit them to move through them or count to 20 and down them again. Unlike DS the time it is active actually some what makes sense.
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I thought survivors wanted killers that apply map pressure? Ruin/Undying rewards a killer that is capable of applying map pressure. If you don't let go of the generator the combo does literally nothing. The killer actually has to show up and shoo you off of it.
I thought survivors wanted a second objective? Totems are just that and by doing this secondary objective you actually remove 2 perks of the killer.
I thought survivors wanted a reason for killers not to proxy the hook, camp and all that? Ruin/Undying gives the killer a valid reason to go pressure gens and leave hooks.
Survivors complain that they still have to always use the same meta perks? Yet here comes a combo that makes perks like Small Game and Detective hunch, Distortion and such have more value to maybe be considered as new meta perks. A new meta doesn't mean that it must be made out of new additions, it can also be in response to new tactics used on the other end?
What do survivors want killers that focus on gen defense and map pressure or killing them quicker? Those are the only proper tactics and normal gen defense is so abysmal that the general consensus is that one should not waste time kicking the generators. I would have thought the community would be happy with the combo, as it promotes killers to play in the manner that survivors as far as I understood believe that killers should play; applying map pressure and leave the hooks so they have longer to play. A killer cannot linger around a hook, as they have to go shoo people of those generators to gain the benefit of the 2 perk combo and it needs 2 perks, because ruin on its own just doesn't survive long enough to have an effect, unless you are really really lucky.
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How would such a system account for the scenarios that survivors create themselves? How do you prevent survivors not just weaponizing these type of systems? I see some blatant abuse issues right there, being in chase for longer period of times... euhm not everyone drops a survivor in 15 secs straight 100% of the times. Looping around hooks happens... so lets hurt your ears and eyes... in the end game all gens are done... please leave the hook so that everyone can freely walk out?
Tunneling, camping, slugging, etc. are tools that sometimes have to be utilized. Not every killer is a 5k hour experienced master killer and frankly even they use some of these tactics consistently or they are presented to you on a silver platter by the survivors. I am pretty new to the game, reached red ranks and simply put, playing nice as a killer going for 12 hooks... doesn't seem realistic in most games. 5 gens pop way to quick to do that without some mad snowball.
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@TheButcher said:
I alway's find it funny when people think any Perks were designed to counter Tunneling, or Camping.
It's like they don't even listen to Dev's, or updates.
Funny, if you are capable of reading the descriptions of perks you would realize that is exactly what they are doing, they are there to provide protection, to provide more time to the survivors to escape and to counter act the viability of these strategies. Tell me exactly how protection from being downed after an unhook, from being hooked again or extending your time on the hook are not perks that help against these strategies? Just because the developers say, these aren't specifically designed to counter them doesn't mean that that isn't exactly what it does. You can blindly follow what people say or use your own brain and think for yourself.
Have a read for yourself and explain how these are not perks designed to help counter play the strategies of tunneling or camping and if those are not the reason they were created please elaborate what their goals are?
After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound
Status Effect. The Survivor has 10/15/20 seconds to mend themselves.
How does this effect not help countering tunneling off the hook, you get a speed burst, you aren't dead on the floor and as a result will not be on your next hook?
or
Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds.
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check
to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
How does this effect not help against tunneling, literally after an unhook for a full minute you are going to stab the killer, jump off their shoulder, no longer in the dying state and able to run away if they try to pick you up to put you on the next hook.
or
Life has taught you the importance of friendship which has given you strength.
While you are on the Hook
in the Struggle Phase, Camaraderie activates.
If another Survivor is within 16 metres of your Hook while Camaraderie is activated, the Struggle Phase timer is paused for 26/30/34 seconds.
You are now prolonging the time on the hook, providing more time for your team to do gens and counter the strategy of camping? It literally is what the developers state is the counter play and they also state that camping is a valid strategy, not a good one but one none the less.
"If you feel like you are being camped, you should stay there for as long as you can and give your team a chance." - https://youtu.be/NEaFKY3opY0
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Maybe the lack of killers and the longer queue time for survivors is an indication of the game state? What is the reason you don't want to play killer?
Killers already on average net more than survivors on bloodpoints.
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The Xbox One and the Xbox X series are not the same platforms. By your definition the people that play games through the Xbox Console Application on Windows PCs are playing on the Xbox platform as well, they are able to play the game through the Xbox branded application after all and might be doing so through the Xbox Ultimate Game pass. Therefore isn't their game also not stamped with the Xbox brand in the same manner? Frankly a case can even be made that people running the game on Windows 10 are using a Microsoft branded machine, Xbox is a Microsoft product... so they should also be included in the Microsoft owned platform? Steam and the Xbox Console Application version of the game are also considered not the same platform, while they both run on PCs. The new generation Xbox is a new platform in every sense of the word.
The issue you described regarding the game crashing was fixed I believe and they even provided 600,000 BPs as compensation for the down time as it was related to the crossplay implementation. Also by your description it sounds that you are just stuck in seeking for other players on your platform and the game isn't actually crashing any longer. Since you are opting out of the cross-play and it simply sounds like there aren't enough people on your brand new platform that share the same preference as you to create the match, have you tried switching roles? The developers cannot be blamed for having other people not wanting to restrict themselves to a smaller pool of players. They cannot magically generate a playerbase on the Xbox X series or force others on that platform to turn off cross-play. You might just have to come to terms that there is just not enough people that share your preference.
Many people that opt out of crossplay on the Xbox One platform did it due to the performance differences, just adding a more powerful similar to the performance of the machines that they are disabling the feature for would be unfair to them. The developers choose to stay true to those that cared about the performance gap and not magically introduce you with your better machine into the mix. They would endure the rage of those that did just that and maybe those same people when they upgraded didn't turn it off, because now they are on par or even better than most other machines performances.
You can hit that check-box all you want, the game will not match you with the cross-play enabled players and this will result in longer queue times. Whether that is minutes, hours, days is all dependent on other players choosing the same option. Nobody is forcing you to change your preference and they are not going to force others to play under your preference either as that would negatively impact theirs. Simply if you join the lobby where you would be placed with some Xbox X series with crossplay and a spot would be empty, even if they had someone available cross platform for it, the mere fact that you were in the lobby would prevent them from filling it and would increase the queue times of the others... just because of you and that isn't fair towards them, as they choose to have the quickest queue times by telling the devs to fill it up with anyone willing to play with them. You don't get a pedestal treatment because you refuse to play with others and you are even not even capable to share the reasoning behind it because you know that it doesn't have merit? You want to place restrictions of who can join your lobbies, then you will have less people available to play with and that could result in that not enough people want to play under those same restrictions?
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@soulzedgez said:
Yeah true but thats only if youre lucky you get to team up with good survivors. My point is, its already a disadvantage for survivors that theu run slowee than killers.. but to also have killers have the abililty to SHOOT, THROW WEAPONS from a distance far away, along with able to move faster, its just like cheating and make survivors at a greater disadvantage!
Yes... in a 1v4 game let's balance it on a 1v1 basis. Go play some killer, because frankly you are clueless. The game is survivor sided and their teamwork determines the outcome mainly.
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How to learn new killer? Lose, lose, lose, lose lose, lose, lose, lose.... just keep practicing.
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Lets be clear: NOED does not give you a free kill, it gives you a 'free' down and as an extension you can state a free hook state at the end stage of the game. Unlike Rancor for instance, that actually provides you a free kill in the end game (one shot and mori) NOED only allows you to down players in one hit. The survivor teams have a choice to make, whether to try and help or abandon you. You do not actually need to cleanse all the totems, it is just a way to prevent it completely, the alternative is to cleanse the one totem that activates after the gen completes, simply cleanse the totem before going for a save and voila their 'free' kill becomes a no kill.
You argument that it is difficult to find totems and cleanse them is why you can bring a small game or detective hunch or simply a map? Your argument that some are hard to find is no different than the majority that are extremely easy to find, the dice rolls both ways. You don't have to change up your build at all, yet for you there is an option to counter these perks you hate going up against. The choice is yours really... not to mention that totems should be a collective team objective and all survivors should be on the look out for them.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you do not want to use perks to help you deal with totems... you are most likely using objectively the survivor meta perks that are saving you from a hook stage or down while the killer would otherwise be hooking you and gaining that pressure & hook progress to begin with? Your argument is that a perk like NOED makes no sense to even have a spot in the game to begin with?
Compare that to the health state recovery perks that are on the survivor end from Adrenaline, DS, UB, SB as they move you up one stage, which are all unpreventable by the killer, they are just told to deal with it and focus on someone else and let that person go regardless of the situation. Recovering a health stage is the opposite effect compared to NOED which 'skips' a health stage on hit, it is literally all it does. Therefore do you believe all these meta perks on the survivor end also have no place in the game at all? I personally have some issues with like DS and believe it could use some tweaks to remove the weaponization of these perks, but also think that they still have a spot in the game and a role they fulfill.
Seriously NOED is an end-game only Hex perk, if that isn't even allowed to be a huge power spike for the killer... they are dedicating 1 perk slot for it and it might not even activate during endgame or deactivated soon after by actions done by survivors.
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Just make it a single perk that grants 1 minute of immunity? You want to build in UB into DS, while addressing none of the issues that killers have with the perk being used as an offensive tool or end-game free escape?
DS really doesn't need a buff and even less counter play.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1741680#Comment_1741680
You seem to misunderstand me, I’m not saying drawing a conclusion for something is bad. What I’m saying is drawing a definitive conclusion overall is bad. It makes complete sense to say something “Victor is hard countered by lockers” as that is something you can catch onto quick. However, saying something like “this killer is a mistake and the devs are stupid” is not a smart conclusion to make after just 4 hours experience. If you gave someone 4 hours and then asked their opinion on nurse, do you expect them to say “shes the best killer in the game”?
I am not misunderstanding anything, yet you fail to understand what I am saying. Just because you don't agree with how they provide feedback does not mean they shouldn't.
The fact that all offensive power of Victor is destroyed by a simple locker is a pretty good reason to believe that the killer is weak. Calling for a buff to this aspect and the preventing of leaving the end gate, you might be ignoring most of your own message. I however am responding to your whole post.
Do I think it is more beneficial to keep it civil, name calling the developers is not constructive and for those stating it isn't in a stage it should be released might have a point.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1741625#Comment_1741625
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1741641#Comment_1741641
Not what I’m saying. I said not to draw any total conclusions. Not that you can’t talk about anything balance wise. Its simply to early to definitely call a killer unusable or busted based on at the time 4 hours experience. That is way different than saying something like “Victor is hard countered by lockers.”
Not really, it is just more concrete and useful to state it like that. It is a conclusion, it is drawn from just seeing a couple of matches played. It is stating that aspects of Victor are way to weak, I just specify exactly what those are in a more civil manner.
Not everyone is a wordsmith or goes into details. Instead of shutting them down you should promote dialogue with them to understand what their concerns are to provide better feedback to the developers. Even their brute manner is valid feedback and that is what a PTB is for.
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Is it not the idea of a PTB realm that people can express their feedback based on the experience they are having?
From what I am seeing:
- Victor is hard countered by lockers; it cannot do anything and once swap happens or he misses a jump, just pop out and kick Victor? Seems a bit easy way to hard deny the killer their power... without even using resources?
- Victor preventing you from leaving the trial seems useless, as when you get rid of him you can leave and if Charlotte hits you ... you just fall down and escape, it isn't like placing a survivor in a dying state ever prevented them from escaping. Seems like a true oversight based on the description.
It could be me, but these might be aspects of the design that needs some attention or at least an evaluation? Instead of just calling for people to not talk about it, maybe theory craft and discuss the topics people bring up and the concerns they have. Help contribute and create useful feedback for the developers? If you have a different look, explain why and how your experience differs so the developers can take that into consideration as well? What you are doing here isn't helping either...
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Anti-Tunnel:
- Safe unhooks!
- Borrowed Time
- Decisive Strike
Survivors are not at the grace of the killer for their time in the match, as they can learn to hide/avoid the killer and loop to increase their time in the match. The biggest issue with most tunneling accusations is that the fault of the matter starts with the survivors and the killer is just going about it in a strategic way.
I have been playing survivor and killer. I do not even have DS and nearly each time I have been tunneled off hook was because my team unhooked me shortly after being hooked, providing no time for the killer to get far away... without BT. Sure I have met some heavy campers, but those aren't that extremely common and is why I run Kindred.
Killers will respond to unhooks if they haven't found anyone yet, people should be ready for that... they know that 2 people are at that hook, your team mate should be the one presenting themselves to the killer in those cases or body block for you, have given you BT to be able to take the hit and run off with a sprint burst, etc. The amount of times I get accused of tunneling, while frankly the first and only person I see is the one that came off hook, injured and beautifully presented to me on a silver platter without the protection of BT or a teammate. Killing someone quick is beneficial to the killers, they know the perks are in play often and usually will play around them.
Whether or not you are in a SWF, even as solos it is important for survivors to have each others back. Frankly the game should teach people what safe unhooks are, because unhooking someone without BT in the face of a killer is just farming them and sacrificing them to the killers mercy. The killer shouldn't have mercy on you... they are the killer. In the end survivors are supposed to simply make enough time to do the gens, open the gates and escape.
I get your frustration, but most of the tunneling that happens from my point of view both as a solo survivor (with kindred) and a killer... it starts with the survivors not respecting the killer and unhooking in unsafe situations without BT.
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@ILoveDemo said:
I don't know what's going on, but I've been trying to use my Haddonfield offerings for days. Every time (9 of 10 Games) the Killer Dc or is AFK. Is there a thing why they doing this?
Because you bring the offering to send them to the worst map for them which regardless of the outcome tends to be an unfun experience for the killer. While I personally just play it out, I will become a sweat lord and will use any tactic from slugging, tunneling and even camping if needed. Like you forgo any 'nice' consideration by bringing map offerings in my books. There is a difference between getting it randomly and going like... aah that is unlucky and the other side picking it.
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@KissingxToast the answer is simple, the people that reach red ranks are more likely to have the option to run any perk combination they want, as they own it and they tend to be more focused on the best options available, assume the best is used against them and as a result use the best options in return, aka the creation of a meta. As a result you see more meta gameplay at red ranks.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721487#Comment_1721487
1: It's required in order to prevent killers from taking advantage of these scummy and easy tactics and getting easy wins. No i never said it NEVER comes into play please read my posts before you make these statements. I just said it comes into play alot less then ruin undying would. Personally i almost never run into ds and when i do im usually in a good enough enough position that it doesn't hurt me or its because i've been downing ppl fast with say nurse or blight etc.
2: No the combo makes ruin stay up all game unless the killer literally gives you the time to go and pop all of the totems and find them and travel to them and avoid any potential killers or their powers. I literally stom solo survivors as killer so much now that i intentionally dodge alot of bad players or solo surviovrs because i know the games gonna be boring and a free win. I wanna be playing a game where i can actively make choices to affect the outcome, not automaticalyl win because my oponents r garbage or cause of my perks.
3: I agree in that i like pop alot more as well. It doesn't give you free gen pressure and you have to use it wisely but it can also be very effective when used well. High mobility killers is what literally breaks ruin undying. I've played in tournaments with ruin undying blight and it's just been a stomp fest. In a TOURNAMENT may i remind you where there are co-ordinated teams.
4:The ability for you to down suvivors and beat them in a chase pretty much 100% comes down to you as a killer these days. Sure 2 years ago i might have agreed but so many more loops are mindgameable, easy to deal with or just generally unsafe these days. Plus over half of all killers have an anti loop as well which makes catching survivors a whole lot easier. If you're struggling to down survivors fast take time to rewatch you're gameplay. I can guarantee you will find many ways you could have played the chases better.
5:Sure good teams can deal with the combo but in no way do they "stomp" against it. It's actualyl quite challenging to deal with ruin undyign no matter if you're in a team or not, it's jsut that it hurts solo so much more. Survivors do need to get better you're right, but the game is forcing them to play better these days. You actually need to be good at looping to hold a killer now and you need to know alot of stuff about the game. This can not be said for killer, as you can liteally know the basics fundementals as killer and still stomp because of perks builds and killers, for example deathslinger you literalyl need to know nothing about mindgaming, very little about how loops work and you don't need to worry about a surviovrs skill level or their ability to dodge because of the instant ADS.
6:Corrupt and pop makes life easier but it doesn't siphon the survivors ability to have fun or win as an expense, and they require skill and game knowledge to use.
7:Sure you can learn the totem positions but at the end of the day it's all rng and you still have to go wandering around the map for ages even if you know where all the totems are. you also aren't taking into account any other factors regaring the killers presence and acting as if the killer just lets you go do whatever you want whenever you want. You don't need gen regresison perks on any mediocre-good killer that's just you wanting to use them to make ur life easier. Also think about this when was the most recent of those meta survivor perks released? Lullaby for the darkness. Almost 3 years ago. Killers on the other hand are constantly getting new meta perks. Sure survivors arent getting bad perk but nothing any where near the level of ruin undying, thrilling, surge, infectious, corrupt just to name a few recent killer meta perks.
8: I've played with this combo before,and i've seen what it does to you. You don't need to think anywhere near as much as without it because you don't need to worry about gen regression mechanics at ALL and you can afford to loose a chase and not get punished for it.
No i've got over 2/3rds of my hours on killer. DS/UB are far easier to play around with than ruin undying which the only options you have with that leave you punished and incredibly vunerable as i've mentioned before.
1) You said that the 1 min invulnerability doesn't come into play often. That means that killers aren't tunneling/camping all that much in your opinion. You cannot have it both ways, it is required and always needs to be used but it isn't coming into play. Literally any obsession means that the killer cannot tell whether it is in the game or not. 1 survivor having an obsession perk or the killer for that matter and there are 0 tells.
2) If ruin stays up all game versus non mobile killers... you are doing a horrible job. Sorry but excuses... if the killer can pressure you off all the gens, all the totems all the time... what the hell are you doing as a survivor team. Like something has to give if you play well, there is no where in the world that the killer can be every where. Spread out, do gens and totems... it really isn't that hard. Make them have choices to what they have to give up and what they protect. Learn to apply pressure across the map, be better survivors?
3) Euhm... footage please? Any tournament I have seen until now in the game usually is a stomp fest, but from the survivor end... not the other way around. Also once again, it is purely with mobility killers and the top % of the world if you are talking tournament level right. Should we balance the game around that caliber player, because then the survivor meta perks are also really busted to the point that tournaments tend to place hardcore restrictions on what can be used... why would that be?
4) Looping isn't about the survivor winning and not being hit, it is about the time span that it takes to do it. Killers are supposed to down you, but while they are trying to do that there are 3 other survivors doing what ever they please. Also... killers do need to know about looping, else the moment you encounter anyone decent they will ring around the rosy with you till 3,4,5 gens are done. This is a 4v1 game, killers are supposed to win the 1v1. The fact that a good survivor is able to hold a killer for very long amounts of time, showcase that killers also need to know what they are doing... else they are losing a 1v1 while there 3 more survivors to worry about. Also, specific killers are not an argument to state that ALL killers don't need to know the fundamentals and have no skill. It is like stating that trapper doesn't need to know about loops or game knowledge?
5) Actually good teams can stomp vs ruin/undying, unless the killer is also good. Then it becomes a challenge... isn't that the point of the game? Having a challenging experience if you meet someone of the same caliber and isn't it a bit worrying that it only applies to when they use a perk combo? Why are you so scared of a challenge... and you complain that killers want easy wins? Solo hurts more regardless, it is more challenging period, not because of some perks... I run kindred pretty much all the time, yet in a SWF that wouldn't really be needed for instance.
6) Undying/Ruin also doesn't siphon the survivors ability to have fun or win, they just demand that survivors also have game knowledge and skill. You have issues with it and you don't want to bring anything along to help you with it.
7) If you have issues with games lasting longer and not being 100% efficient, bring a map.... it will tell you where they are. You do need regression perks in the same way that you need DS. Is it as 100% requirement, no. Killers have more options, the meta changes based on what is available and makes current survivor perks better like Hunch and Small game... yet here you are complaining that you don't want to use them. Those perks are becoming more meta, because totems are getting more important as there are actual good hex combos. There are more ways than just one to make perks better, having perks that are countered by unused perks is a way to make those unused perks better.
8) Euhm... you don't have to think about kicking gens - which is totally and utterly useless unless you have Pop pretty much (2 sec investment that can ben undone with a tap), you still need to make sure they aren't on them holding M1, you also now have to consider the totems which if you don't run a hex isn't something to consider. You defend mindless, one sided easy perks to use on the survivor end and make their life easier.
You claim it is easy to play around immunity? Simply ignore it right... just you know let the guy do a gen in your face, save the dude you just hooked, crawl to the exit for a free escape... all easy play around right. I have been hit with DS after hooking someone else and downing the savior, I had people crawl to victory and DS me right before they got out for a free escape, literally no counter play at all... why was it still in the game at that stage, because I didn't tunnel and didn't camp. You know how you should play versus DS, tunnel them at the start of the game... it avoids the bullshit situation at the end game and if your response to that is... just don't let it become end-game, then I tell you just don't let go of a gen when they have ruin. Both sides have ######### to deal with, but you are very much in favor and defense of all survivor meta perks, but ooh way the killers have something that slows you down and makes the game a challenge.
All in all, you just want the game to be easier for survivors. The fact that good survivors can deal with the combo, indicates that it is the skill level and coordination that survivors need to learn - maybe it starts weeding out the bad red-rank boosted players? When I started playing killer and got my ass handed to me, all I heard was get good! Just play around it, adapt, learn to deal with the meta that we have on the survivor end. Why doesn't this apply both ways? I am not an amazing player, killer or survivor... instead of blaming the perks for my loss I look at what I could do better.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721247#Comment_1721247
I don't even know where to start with this.
You're saying that 1 minute of immunity that often doesn't even come into play is stronger than basically a free win half of games? Do you not know what ruin undying does to solo q games? It literalyl makes them unplayable cause you have pretty muhc no chance of escaping unless the killer is extra-boosted or you get lucky.
"Frankly I don't think the combo is even that good". Well then why does literalyl ever killer these days run it? And i doubt u don't run it either.
The argument that you have to play scummy to win is just so false its unbelievable, sounds like something tru3's fed into you. I don't want to go into this argument because I know it'll get nowhere but i'm going to say two things to this. 1: Why do you wan't free wins against the best teams? They shouldn't be easy to win otherwise what's the difference between a good or bad team. You should actually have to TRY and use SKILL to beat a good team. 2: There are plenty, PLENTY of good killers out there who will stomp even the best teams because they've mastered a certain killer. Sure you won't beat a good team if you're say a billy main and then go and play oni against them but that's how it shoudl be. You shouldn't be able to pick a killer or bulid and thus instantly win the match or make the game so much easier, which is what ruin undying does.
You're bascially forcing every survivor to waste one perk just to counter a potential build a killer might have. That's like saying "just put on iron will against spirit and ggez'. Very flawed argument.
I'm going to say this again because i don't think ur getting the point. Do you want to play a game where the result is predetermined based on the perks you have? No because that's boring as hell. That's why ruin undying sucks so much. Solo survivors know that they've lost, and killers know that they've won. Reason I've never used that build as killer and don't plan on. Why would i want to play a match where i don't even have to think and I've already won the game.
- You are claiming that DS/UB is required! Because otherwise you die to camping and tunneling... so if that isn't the case as it doesn't come into play often... why is it required? If it wouldn't be that common it wouldn't be much of an issue now would it and survivors wouldn't be running these perks all the time. Like seriously, you cannot state it is a REQUIREMENT TO HAVE! Yet they never come into play... as that would allow you to swap them out. If you are worried about having no obsession in the game, use the game chat before a match to make sure someone brings an obsession perk? Like even solos can coordinate a little before the match starts.
- Half the games are free wins? If you meet potatoes maybe... I don't know what it does in solo queue.... while I only solo queue, literally have 0 experience with being a part of a SWF as a survivor? Is it unplayable... euhm... nope, it extends the game and if the killer pressures gens properly makes it harder, which means your team has to perform better in terms of loops, sticking to gens, finding totems, etc. You also act like the killer isn't doing anything and just gets handed the win, all the combo does is keep ruin up longer and making pressuring gens actually beneficial. Why isn't it an issue to face just ruin? Because it doesn't last for any significant amount of time, because 2/5 is next to gens, 2/5 is usually just out in the open and 1/5 is actually somewhat hidden.
- I have tried it, it is inconsistent with its performance. Some games it is amazing, some games it is complete trash and anything in between based on the survivors you meet and some luck the quality of the perk combo is very volatile. I personally prefer Pop goes the Weasel for a more consistent gameplay, but this just gives an alternative and is great on high mobility killers as they can zoom around and pressure most of the map. These are the killers where the combo shines and it makes the game a lot more difficult.
- I don't believe you need to play scummy, but to do so you need to have either an extreme snowball, the ability to end chases extremely fast (which based on who you are meeting, map rng and your own experience can be really hard) and/or have gen slow down. Games go so fast if you aren't snowballing out of control, if the survivors play anywhere near decent and aren't throwing themselves at you. I do believe that gen slow down perks are nearly a must to be running at higher levels of play if you are facing anywhere near similar caliber skill or higher survivors.
- Free wins against the best teams? Euhm... no matter what perks I use, the best teams will crush me and yet I also don't dodge teams, I win some I lose some... it really matters how good they are, if they are near my level I do alright, still no guaranteed victory or anything, if they are overall significantly better than me I get crushed. Once again you are ignoring the fact that survivors can counter the build and good teams can simply win against the undying/ruin combo. Nobody is instantly winning matches against good teams. That is the difference, good teams beat the combo because they know how to play against it. Bad teams aren't handed a win and get dominated by it because they are not playing well. Survivors also need to become better, play well, adapt to the meta and simply become good? This isn't exclusive for killers.
- Perks combos that are meta make the game much easier, that is why they are meta; Survivor meta perks are seen as crutches, training wheels, as they make the game easier: give you extra time, compensate for mistakes and buff your performance. Run the best perks and the game becomes easier... same applies to Killers and why wouldn't it? Running Corrupt Intervention and Pop also makes my life easier, running detection perks make my life easier, that is the point of them?
- You don't need to use a perk to counter it, you can also bring a map, learn the totem positions, simply search for them... most aren't really all that hidden. Like if you struggle, use a perk to make your life easier! According to you the perks you deem necessary aren't needed often, so why not swap it out for one you think is? Why do killers need to waste 2 perk slots to slow down the game to counter the speed at which generators are completed? Why are these gen regression perks meta... like undying/ruin ruffled the meta for survivors, you don't have to adjust to it and stick to your UB/DS/DH/BT build. Like feel free not to adjust, but there are a lot of good survivors that did and they are very good at hunting down totems and winning against the combo.
- Perks don't predetermine the outcome. If you believe that is the case it just showcases your inability to adjust and improve. Solo survivors, SWF ... doesn't really matter man. If you believe that simply putting 2 lit totems in the game stops you from thinking and playing then it just shows how biased you are. Ruin/Undying does nothing if the killer doesn't apply pressure properly and if survivors respond properly they can counter it.
Frankly to me it sounds like you play one side only or don't play killer at high ranks. I play survivor, I play killer and by no means the meta on survivors is less oppressive than the one on the killers end. You are the one that needs easy, free wins as a survivor... the moment the killer brings in meta perks that force you to perform better, adjust, find totems... just to hard, unbeatable, predetermined outcome! Simply put, get good and you can beat the meta combo. It is what everyone told me to do as a killer, just play around DS/UB, just pressure gens better, just be good... why wouldn't that same logic apply to survivors? Good survivors can beat hex perks, bad survivors struggle...
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721047#Comment_1721047
A lot of the ppl who do complain about the survivor perks do it because they want easy games where they can mindless tunnel camp and get free wins. Yes I know sometimes these perks can be abused and annoying against generally good killers but personally I find survivor second chances far less game changing than ruin undying.
Survivors complaining about killer perks do it because they want easy games and can mindlessly pump out gens within 5 mins and get free wins?
You find survivors perks less game changing where combos can create 1 min of pure immunity, offer free escapes in the late game and have no tells, no counterplay... less game changing than a perk combo that requires you to remove some totems, broadcasts it is in the game...
Killers are pretty much forced to run generator regression because just like your claims of it is a necessary evil to counter tunneling and camping ... these perks are necessary to provide people with time. At least killers need to defend something, survivors can act to do something against it.
You are asking what rank someone is that can sit at a gen for 80 secs, but aren't able to do bones at rank 1. Frankly I don't think that the combo is even that good unless you have a high mobility killer... at red ranks the totems and gens get done fast if the killer cannot pressure them and isn't that what survivors keep telling killers to do. Get good, learn to pressure gens and now they have a perk combo to actually promote that style of play, NERF! It pulls killers away from hooks, because they now have additional benefits to keep moving and pressing gens and totems... guess you want everyone to slug, tunnel and camp as that is how killers pretty much have to play when facing a decent team without gen perks. Ooh and if you come with but 5k hour killers can do it without it, the 5k survivors can also play without the perks you state are required... are we balancing around them or the rest of us.
Guess the get good philosophy only applies to killers, because frankly good survivors are more than capable to do bones, power through and apply their own pressure to win.
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@DaKnight said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XaOnYvGeI
Just watch this guy play. He has lost 1 game out of the last 212, even against 4 man meta SWFs, and he rotates between all the different killers. I took his playstyle to rank 1 with great success and win the overwhelming majority of my killer games even against SWFs.
"This is really why I don't play trapper. Because I don't need trapper. Half the times I don't even place traps because I don't need them, I really don't"
If you have 6k hours in the game and are facing people with maybe a couple hundred... you can win purely on experience difference. The majority of people don't have that type of practice and experience to back them up. It isn't like he is facing a lot of 4 survivors with anywhere near his experience levels. He even uses meta perks on each and every game, then busts out a Mori because he faces a SWF... so not sure your statement of even against 4 man meta SWFs...
I for one struggle instantly when I try out a new killer, as there is little to no room for errors and practice. Games go way to fast at red ranks to learn something new and just is generally not very fun, which somewhat can be mitigated with perk builds (if you were able to invest). I do believe any killer could technically work at red ranks if you get the time to practice and once you learned to use their abilities, play styles and general killer skills it might pan out for you. Though I get where the OP is coming from, because red ranks is really not a nice place to try out something new as games will just end so quickly and a lot of times you didn't even have the idea you had the opportunity to practice anything.
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Simply killing them displeases the entity, suffering is what it wants to see. The entity judges each individual in the trial based on 4 criteria.
Kills are the end result, but don't say much about the journey that was taken to get there.
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All software has bugs, it is still not a reason to D/C. Sure will the game fail you at times just from a software point of view yes... yet no penalty will mean that people DC because they don't like the killer, the map, the first 3 gens pop to quick, they get downed first, etc. etc. and ruining the game for others. You are bashing the developers over nothing realistic, should they work on bugs, glitches and fix them... yes, is that a reason to allow people to DC willynilly no!
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124h to get to rank 1
Estimate another 500 to 1000 to actually be good.
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Tips from a fairly new player that struggled their way to the red ranks:
- Analyze the map and take note of the generator positions. If you are able to lock down a 3 gen (near each other) that can help a lot in the late game - decide which gens are worth defending and which ones are less important.
- Analyze the opponent you are chasing, if it is taking to long and they can play with you it just sometimes is better to break off and find someone else. Also sometimes just the smart thing to do if you are passing by someone on a gen. Try to find the weaker links in terms of loopers on the survivors end, they all M1 hold at the same speed... but they don't all loop you for the same amount of time. Once they are down the better survivors will need to help and maybe you can find them out of position etc.
- Try to keep busy and effective with you time. If you hook someone smash the pallet, move to the gen... if they unhook before you found someone double back and hunt them down.
- Learn when to slug (putting a survivor in a dying state on the floor and not picking them up), it isn't always in your best interest to pick them up directly and if you can have them on the floor while you chase the other a third needs to show up. You can also slug to avoid DS if you happen to down the survivor that was on hook (based on the situation it might be better to risk it etc.)
- When being piled on with body-blockers just drop the survivor from your shoulder and slug them instead - keep in mind their wiggle state increases when you pick them back up and it isn't lost (so based on how long they wiggled and how far the hook is you might just want to leave them there), if at the hook you can also look downwards and wack them to be able to step into them and still get the hook off.
- Watch some videos about looping and tiles, it helped me a lot to know the generics.
- Learn to use your killers powers, when I swap killers I always struggle a little bit more each killer has its own uniqueness to them and the better you learn to use them the better you will be.
- Don't respect pallets to often (stopping to avoid the stun) unless you notice they are a notorious instant drop pallets, but many try to be greedy and just acting like the pallet isn't there is better. Also the less pallets are up the easier your time in chases will be.
- Don't be to bothered about the teabagging at the end, just push them out and get a hit or 2 in.. extra blood points are awarded and it ends the game quicker. Also the most satisfying thing is when they mess up and you can pick them up... it is pretty rare, but so funny.
- If they have a key and go for the hatch, just stand there and bash the button to close it. The one with the key you cannot stop really, but you can avoid others following them. If you swing they just jump in... keys are just 'shrug' just like Mori's it alters the games win conditions and you shouldn't take these escapes to seriously. You can always put on Franklin's if you see it in the lobby and knock that key out of their hands.
Btw. if you finish your chase and get a first hook by the time the first gen pops you are doing alright and are on track still. Remember at the start of the game you have 0 pressure and the survivors have very little to fear, the longer the game goes and the more progress you made the more difficult the game becomes for them.
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Survivor: Kindred, as it provides the information one needs to know whether to stick around and do gens or start moving for the save.
Killer: PGTW simply due to it being a good single perk gen defense and it feels like gen defense perks are the name of the game if you want to play in any way 'nice'
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@bangbison said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1712590#Comment_1712590
Nice list. I’m never toxic, or at least am not if the killer isn’t. I don’t take op perks except DH if that counts. I just don’t know what I’m doing wrong. I’ll okay normal, and it’s not even like long chases and the others will do about the same. I just keep getting tunneled right off of first hook and don’t get to play much after. And it’s always aggressive. Like, just bolting back after a save. Like they don’t want me to play this match.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1712596#Comment_1712596
I don’t use DS, but I always feel like I should. Just never gets use when I run it. I do run to tiles and try my best, but usually I’m panicking at this point. So very easy to mind game me. I take DH, but just for fixing mistakes or getting that little extra distance.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1712603#Comment_1712603
I just don’t appreciate getting unhooked and then being chased immediately. I guess just that. Being chased after getting unhooked. Like, not having time to do anything else but run for your life.
If you are instantly being chased after a hook and unable to do anything than run... shouldn't you be asking why survivors don't learn how to safely unhook you instead?
If your team serves you up on a silver platter why would the killer say no... Have you tried playing killer, because you would be surprised how often people unhook super unsafe and expect the killer to not jump on the opportunity they present them...
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Based on the game it can be fine or a bit frustrating. Usually just with myself, sometimes I am clearly out matched... I might be considered 1-3 red rank, but the difference between me and someone that has thousands of hours practice is still a big gap. In those cases it is just a shrug, to be expected.
Usually if I go on a losing streak, I just stop playing 'nice' and just start focusing on my own game. If that means the better target is the poor survivor that just came off the hook, I won't go out of my way to not hit them and target them as I should. It is to stressful to play nice, sure you might get like 7 or 8 hooks if you play well yet if nobody died it still feels like a loss.
Most likely will be called a camper or tunneler at the end, yet that is just what it is. My opinion is if you want to get better and play to win you need to adapt to the situation, focus on your own gameplan and the situation, the way survivors act etc. Are there people good enough to just play nice and consistently win or even just have the idea they have agency in the game... sure, but one needs to be extremely good at the game to play that way.
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@nina1121 maybe while complaining about other peoples complaints about aspects of survivors you shouldn't be complaining about the aspects of killers?
Btw. maybe the people that complain about those perks agree that Mori's are to strong? Just because they are not happy with 1 thing doesn't mean they cannot support your complaints either. There are legit reasons to complain about these things and the power it provides. Just a weird idea... maybe both need to be adjusted? You know you don't have to pick a side... you could try and be objective?
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1692948#Comment_1692948
You know you can just ignore recently unhooked people right? If you're on teh other side of the map applying pressure by downing and hooking other survivors, then you're forcing the ds survivor off of gens. Yes unbreakable does counter slugging, but A) You can only use unbreakable once and B) It's still wasting time as they can't do anything for the duration they are on the floor AND often it'll encourage other players to get of the gens and go for the pickups either to save the unbreakable or because they don't know they have it.
Yea you can power through ruin but you've gotta be hoping the killer you're vsing doesn't know anything about rotating or downing people or applying pressure. Any killer who has half a brain can make it so ruin will constantly be undoing almost all of you're work.
Oh and if you're running into DS even though you aren't tunneling, then that means you're downing people more than fast enough that the ds shouldn't hurt you that much.
The classic: Just go for someone else, just ignore them and go do something else. You realize this is not a counter play and if that is the magical counter play you claim it is, just ignore generators and do bones... how is that different. You are telling me to ignore the objective of a killer to go do another one, like patrol, find someone else... at least if you do bones the perk is out of the game, ignoring a survivor keeps the perk in the game.
Just ignore the fact that survivors know that they are immune and place them in the path of a killer, body block for their friends, go a generator right next to them... just go for the other guy... while there is a guy blocking the hook for their friend to unwiggle with immunity. Get the hook off and down the person there, now you are stuck no counter play other than camp the living hell out of them.
I have chased other people, downed them hooked them for them to be saved by the person running DS. Who should I aim for? I down the person going for the save because they do it straight in my face, yet I should not pick them up and ignore it because they decided that with their immunity they are far more suited than anyone else on their team to save the person.
I don't eat a DS because I am applying pressure, going else where and then in the end game they open the gates save the one pressure point I have: the guy I got on the hook and insta down them as they are injured and the others healthy, now they can slug their way to victory or stab me in the back to victory... how am I supposed to counter that? Just hit the savior for a speed burst to the end-gate, in all likelihood I did that as well. It won't hurt to much right... removes the one pressure area I still have in the game to not have them escape, while they crawl their way to victory and I am denied my objective of hooking survivors and preventing them from escape.
You have literally stated a grand total of ZERO counter plays, there is not a single action on my end other than: Just let them do what they want for a full total 2 minutes per survivor or risk the stun and eat it, hope you were not near completing the game. Keep in mind there are zero tells if they have it or not. Unlike ruin that just tells you it is in play
You know when it doesn't hurt for me to take the 5 second DS stun? When I tunnel someone down at the beginning of the game, 5 gens left just eat the stun and make it a 3v1. That is the best counter play against the combo, just power through it and do it early in the match. Yet that would make me a Toxic bad killer that just needs to learn to play.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1692518#Comment_1692518
Their counterplay is comparable to that of ds unbreakable, infact i would argue ds unbreakable has more than ruin undying.
Please elaborate, if you slug them they get up, if you hook them you get stunned, if they grab a gen, you get stunned, if they locker you get stunned, if you leave them alone they have 60 seconds to do as they please including gens, saving people, body blocking, seeking for items, healing....
How is there any counter play other than, just powering through the perk or wait while they crawl to the exit, to a pallet to setup for a save, buy time while their friends do gens because you know killers have 60 seconds to camp and is really something nobody complains about? What counterplay is available to a killer?
You can power through Ruin if you want, you can ignore it or you have an alternative action you can do bones, you can also wait for your team to pick up the slack. For which you can bring a map or perks to even help you if you deem that necessary. There is an action you can do against it to actively counter it.
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Hexes are supposed be extremely strong, that is why survivors are given the counter play to cleanse them and remove them from the trial. Stop focusing on those gens and clean up those bones. Frankly could we have a similar destroy a totem to get rid of all the really strong perks of survivors that actually have 0 counter play.
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They are hex perks, just do bones or deal with it. At least they have a counter play in contrary to the survivor meta perks, like seriously... hexes are to strong? They are supposed to be strong, because they are hexes! Knock over a pile of bones and they do nothing for the remainder of the trial.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
Not easy/hard to win, only fun or not.
Do you enjoy playing against SWF groups or you find playing against premades a miserable experience?
Would you like to know if you are or were facing one?
Is dependent on the SWF that I face how good are they and how do they play.
The biggest issue is that even when you are doing half decent or even pretty good the gens just go so fast if they are semi-decent or near your level. It is just really stressful, high intensity and half the times you feel as if you have no real agency in the game and waiting for them to mess up and overcommit. Usually after the grace period of the first three gens, I start playing dirty and then they tend to be pretty rude in the end-game chat: Filthy camping tunneling ez killer, even when they win. Yet they don't understand that they leave no real room for the killer to play any other way if they want to have a chance to win. This is enjoyable to some degree, but if it is every single game... which sometimes is the case... it stops being enjoyable. Killers just sometimes also just want a more casual game, that isn't reliant on snowballing out of control.
I have met a hand full of SWFs that completely destroyed me and are at a total different level, usually all good sports though. Is the game very enjoyable when this happens, not really but they are short and I am usually just in awe of how good they play. I also have no clue how to counter these people, tried everything even face camping and they manage to get people out. These are so little of these games that I cannot even find them annoying. I do my best, get a hook or 2 and bid them a gg with their 4 man escape.
Then we have the OoO groups, no matter what just not fun. If you think normally you have no agency, these groups are usually extremely toxic, able to call out every single move you do and use every trick in the book to ruin your game.
The Map/Key groups are also no fun to play against, I usually just get franklins out and my soul mission is to have them drop that key. If I noticed to late I will tunnel the hell out of the person with the key and map. De-pip or not, it really isn't my concern.
The map-offering SWFs just makes me sweat, no mister nice guy... I will use every trick in the book. You want me to stare at you through the corn, go to the chilly mountains of Ormond or the worse of all Haddonfield by your choice, you better be ready to have a sweaty match.
The bully squads with their 4 flashlights and all that, I used to hate going up against them and now after some practice and all that since they don't do much with the gens makes it more enjoyable. It is a totally different type of game though, where it just is about aiming to slug as many as possible and building up hook states.
Personally I would like indicators to know the size of the parties I am facing, sure we can deduct from the lobby in many cases. Yet most of the times you cannot really risk it as a killer. You have to assume they are together and be ready for it, meaning that even if you are facing a full solo queue many killers will go in hard, with the best builds they have and using all the tools they have available.
You cannot just relax, enjoy a casual game as a killer unless you are really good versus a SWF team that is at your level and since we are deprived of that information. My general rule is, play nice, try to get enough done till gen 2 and then do what ever is necessary to win if needed and the quicker you bash out those first 3 gens the less 'nice' I will play.
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The common response to gens going to fast is just learn to apply more pressure. Now that someone has a situation that applies huge amounts of pressure and people advising them to give it up. It isn't fun for the other end, it isn't beneficial for the bloodpoints earned... There is such a double standard at play.
Once I see survivors give me slack when my game goes south fast for me, I might consider doing the same. Dont get me wrong, I always try to go for the saviors, play the game well, spread the pressure, improve my killer skills and get 10+ hooks a game, yet those times survivors present me with gifts and huge mistakes I will capitalize. I lose enough games as it is, never seen survivors hand me a way back into the game so why should killers do it?
The guide book for fun games that people try and uphold seems very one sided. The play 'nice' idea seems to only apply to killers, for survivors is just called strategy, playing well and killers should just get good.
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@xevra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686775#Comment_1686775
It's funny you mention the "team" aspect cause all these killers complain about SWF and comms and what not when it is a team game
It is a 4v1 game, whether or not you are in a group has nothing to do with the current complaint or that you aren't in a premade team.
Don't act like SWFs with their coms don't complain about tunneling and camping. It is the coms part that isn't supported in the game that killers complain about, not the premade group aspect of it... since the game isn't balanced around the info that coms provide. Yet that is a different topic.
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You are part of a team, they make a mistake and the killer punishes the team for it. Whether you are on the receiving end of the punishment or not is not them being toxic. It sounds like you are angry at the wrong person.
Each side will punish the other side if they make mistakes and people are somewhat decent. Just the nature of the game.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686713#Comment_1686713
No you're right there is a bunch of variables. So I wouldn't say this should be universally used. But it gives an overall broad idea although flawed.
Well it gives a little bit of a mismatched view. Grabbing a single type of measuring point and trying to make a conclusion is just wrong.
There are multiple variables that are in play that are totally ignored here. We don't even know how many games were played that produced these numbers. How are DCs registered? Are games where a DC or first hook suicide happens early on in the match counted? These are aspects that skewer the numbers drastically and it isn't like DCs were all that irregular.
Frankly I think it would be far more interesting to see how many hook happen on average per game, how many hook stages average per kill, how many gens are completed and an overview of when deaths happen based on when gens are completed and that type of information that shows more about the game.
If we want to make any type of conclusion then you need more information. The information here is pretty much irrelevant other than look people play the game.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686240#Comment_1686240
"Information they were not supposed to have"
Could you provide some examples to back up this claim?
When in a chase and noticing a lit totem or the hatch this can be directly indicated to the team. The team at that point can send someone over to cleanse the totem or with a key organize an escape.
When a killer breaks chase, the player can call this out and making it far easier to avoid the killer.
When a gen is nearly completed while working on it solo, but the killer interrupts them this can be communicated and someone can swap from their generator to that area and fix it.
If the killer is near the hook, this can be communicated to indicate when it is safe to come for the save, whether to stay on gens etc.
It gets even worse when one of the members wears OoO they can simply state exactly where and what the killer is doing throughout the trial and the team can respond all 4 to that information.
There is simply benefits to gaining this information that is usually reserved for slot perks, no need to carry information perks and therefore opening slots up for other perks to help you in your gameplay such as chases, generator completion, healing, etc.
Seriously if people do not understand that information is extremely important in this game?
That said people that claim it would be bad to know how large the teams are you are facing, that killers would instantly all quit the lobby... frankly noticing that there is a SWF is in there is quite simple, many have a tag or similar names, wear the same outfits, pop into the lobby at nearly identical times and one can inspect profiles. It just makes it a bigger hassle, why the need for secrecy?
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Eeeehm... as a killer I rather go to Ormond than to this map.
Long as huge walls, that a survivor can circle around with vaults in the middle surrounded by pallets and no dead zones. There is so much stuff plastered into this space that can be used by survivors it is ridiculous.
Man... if a survivor complains about Haddonfield of all places.... mind boggling. Does it need a rework, euhm yeah... for killers.
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Now, I don't believe what they did was kind to you. They are clearly just toying with you and I believe if they were serious could easily have finished the game in under 10 mins. I understand that this is frustrating and I sympathize. By all means report them, because they are keeping the game hostage in essence.
Yet there is some light on the end of the tunnel, this type of team are going to become easier and easier for you to counter once you get better at playing a killer. The games won't last as long as you will be ending them sooner, but I totally know this feeling you had.
A couple of tips:
- If you know they have a bunch of flashlights, it is extremely important to face a wall when you pick up survivors. This should save you from the flashlight saves. There are multiple saves they got off that by simply facing the wall of the shack would make it impossible.
- When they are body blocking you while holding a survivor, drop the survivor (on PC the button is R) - the wiggle meter doesn't decrease in the time they are on the floor, so you might just need to slug them at that point and might have been smart to do more.
- If they go under a pallet while slugged, just stand on them look down and bait them in or just leave them there. Slugging them is by far the best option at that point.
- As a bubba, if you like the killer learn to use your chain saw more. You seemed to have a bit of good movement and downs when you used it.
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Don't put to much emphasis on what someone states while they are playing the game. It is most likely just some trash talk for entertainment and stress release.
They usually don't even transfer that stuff into the end game chat or what not. Even though I do believe that people are quick to lay judgement on killers for simply playing the game at the speed set by the survivors and a double standard being held. Don't judge those that stream based on their commentary on their game while playing.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683408#Comment_1683408
Oh, you don't mean second chance literally then.
At least to me, second chance means that you just overcame a direct negative effect.
Whether the second chance was rightfully earned or not isn't important, not at the moment of use anyway: You have now been given a second chance.
Like Spirit Fury: You build it up, and then use it as a second chance at hitting the Survivor that just used the Pallet on you.
Is Spirit Fury truly a second chance though and not just a sped up version of an action you can do for which you first had to do an action? I don't think many people look at Inner Strength and think it is a second chance perk. Sure you heal quickly and all that, but you first had to do a totem. Do they give you a boost, sure... but a second chance? Usually Spirit Fury is used intentionally for its desired effect, it wasn't a mistake it was a prepared action in order to catch someone off-guard.
Also, not every 2nd chance perk is something that is complained about, Mettle of Man is a prime example. Take 3 protection hits and now you are immune to being put in the dying state for one go. No outcry's and most killer perks have some form of action required, conditions or counter play built in. The same doesn't apply to the survivors meta perks killers just need to 'deal with it' even though survivors didn't need to do anything in order to be provided with this extra boost, most likely the main reason why they are the meta perks to begin with.
The notion that it isn't important how people got it, what conditions they had to met for them to use it is a false one. It is what makes something feel fair or deserved. NOED is very hated, because it feels like the killer didn't have to work for it or put effort into it and is awarded with instant downs. Even though it has a huge counter play where players can stop it from ever happening or by cleansing it after activation. Yet people are readily available to defend no counter play actions like a late game DS or the combination with UB. The counter play is to: face camp the slugged target for a full minute, just sit on their body.... not that it works late game or is very enjoyable, but if a killer does that they are toxic and against the fun of the game. Yet that is in essence what people defend when they defend these perks, you cannot just ask the opponent to not do the counter play as it isn't fun. It is like calling survivors toxic for cleansing totems to counter NOED and against the fun of the killers, because it is fun to one-shot people at the end stage.
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Tile knowledge is more of a general aspect of the game and important none the less, look up some guides online such as the following which I found useful:
https://youtu.be/p6QYjInzLeMWhen to drop chase and prevent the gen rush feeling is all about trying to ensure you are running around the area where you want to apply pressure. Sometimes if you notice a survivor is just better at looping, at a strong rotation and you cannot figure out what to do is to just drop chase and go back to the gens to catch someone off guard. This is also more of a practice makes perfect and isn't specific to any type of killer.
Just always keep in the back of your head, you are playing against 4 people and if you don't switch it out and spend all your time with one the other 3 will feel safe. Analyze the team you are up against and try to pick the weaker runners out first. If someone really wants your attention, usually it is better to go for their friend. A good looper is just as quick as a bad one at doing gens after all, but once you got the bad one on the hook someone has to go save them and allows you to find a third to also not be on gens or the one that comes for the save so a third one now needs to go for the save.
Analyze your map, where your gens are and make sure to play around them. Try setting up a 3 gen for the late game (identifying 3 generators near each other for an easy patrol route when 1 gen is left to be done) and defend those over others that are more on the outskirts.
For Bubba himself it is important to learn to use your chainsaw properly, as in time the continuation of the motion by using all your charges, how to center yourself to run into doors and around objects, knowing how to time it to get rid of pallets quickly and when NOT to use it but just getting that M1 attack in. Keep in mind that revving up slows you down, canceling the rev does so as well and it is just important to get a feel for this.
Like there isn't anything really wrong about your build, yet you could check whether you are using every aspect of it properly. If you always go for the direct pick up, infectious fright isn't that useful as by the time you hook someone the information is outdated, so you might need to slug more. How good are you at locating people through whispers? During corrupt intervention do you find someone in that period and are you placing pressure on the gens they can work on? Bamboozle are you blocking windows during chases and shutting down options for the survivors forcing them to play around pallets instead?
I myself haven't been playing very long, so take what I am stating with a bit of common sense and there might be people that can help you out more. Many of the aspects I am indicating here are parts of my own gameplay that I am trying to improve upon even though I was able to reach rank 1 as a killer within my now first month of playing. Being a killer and especially a new killer can feel rough at times, there are many things to consider and time seems to fly. Just try and utilize your time as much as possible where you are doing something. Good luck and hope this helped a bit.
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@UMCorian said:
Wait,
You're telling me your Hex:Ruin Totem isn't supposed to spawn right ontop of a gen?
I must be misreading the perk. I thought the perk said: "Hex:Ruin: Provide one random Survivor 1500 Blood Points about 15 seconds into every match."
Pair it with undying: with the description grant up to 60 seconds of additional time on your hex perks.
Yet you know totems are so overwhelming and strong, will be nerfed soon.
@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683057#Comment_1683057
What about my build? Is there something impractical about gen defense?
It is close to a requirement to succeed if you aren't a X000 h player, so nope it is actually surprising you didn't swap out sloppy for the above mentioned perk.
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Some people are just horrible teammates, if they don't get what they want they have no interest in doing their part. They want to just focus on chases, they should be a killer?
They didn't try to escape, they gave up and requested a hook to suicide on. That way they get to keep their bloodpoints, not be punished by the DC system and hop into the next trial with no consideration how that affects the rest.
You made the right call, knowing when to drop chase and when to split off to pressure others is key for a killer.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1682769#Comment_1682769
First in my Region Killer queue is Instant. OK not always but still.
Yes Killer always want a 4k because that is the only thing they see as a "Win". They are even mad after a 2 or 3k.
Yes we win as a Team, but does that mean "I lose" because one person died. No I still won.
I diden't record any of my games I make only Screenshots of games I enjoyed or the end chat was funny.
Oh and I don't play Tournaments because I don't like If people looking me.
I enjoy getting a 4k, if I get a 3k that is also a win in my books. If it is a 2k it is a draw and a 1k or 0k is when I lose. Making statements like the killer always wants 4K's is like saying survivors always want to escape. The fact that one person escapes, especially with the hatch mechanic in play doesn't mean that the killer didn't win. Also, not everyone judges the outcome of the game based on deaths versus escapes, some judge it on hooks, blood points, pips and frankly anything you want. Are there killers that get angry with a 3k or 2k sure just like survivors do get salty because they escaped with 2 or 3 and not 4. It is a game you lose some you win some.
You make big claims of killing 4 survivors in 20 seconds. That you can beat anyone and all that, but no proof. You are also going to tell me you don't slug, tunnel, proxy camp and all that ever, because killers don't need to do those things and get 12 hooks a game always. Never dodge a lobby, always at rank1 and are perfect... a god among killers, but are to scared to earn thousands because someone might inspect your game. Sorry but I don't believe it, not that you might not be a good player, but simply a story to good to be true is just that a story.
Anyone that claims that killer is the more powerful, better side to play and easier is simply not being realistic. There is a reason why killer queues are instant across the board. You need 1 killer for every 4 survivors and yet there is a shortage of killers and a queue for survivors to be matched up with them. People naturally gravitate towards the stronger, more enjoyable, easier to execute side.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/198072/#########-second-chances
First of all, you as a killer also do many mistake all the time (for example bad movement, wrong prediction etc), but those mistakes dont result into anything "dirctly" most of the time. If a survivor does a mistake, he is dead or gets hit - if a killer does a mistake, the chase goes on for another 10 seconds or so.
If you are in a chase and it takes you longer then 12-15 seconds to get anything (like a down, a hit or pallet) you did a mistake. Do you find yourself in those situations? If you are honest, you have to say 'Yes'. Do you count those siutations as a mistake? Probably not.
So, to relativate those mistakes you do in chase (those you most likely not even realise they are mistakes), Devs gave the killer Entity blocker and Bloodlust. Those are already your second chances by default.
On top of that, you have tons of 2nd chance perks. Lets talk about some of them:
- Ruin
- Undying
- POP
- Corrupt
- Bamboozle
- Spirit Fury
- Enduring
- NOED
- Play with your food
- Safe the best for last
- Haunted Grounds
- Thantophobia
- Brutal Strenght
- Surge
- Devour Hope
And MANY more!
Killer need to realise that they also do mistakes, but the EFFECT of a mistake is not as dramatic like for survivors.
Kind regards
I don't think you understand what 2nd chance perks means. Not every perk is a 2nd chance perk, like regression perks just enhances the ability for one to regress a generators progress. It is like stating that healing increasing perks are 2nd chance perks. They aren't 2nd chances they are enhancements of the abilities one has. Also the perks that award you for good play are not 2nd chance perks, so the majority of the perks you list there are not 2nd chances at all and award you for specific actions. NOED and Undying are pretty much the main perks that killers have that provide additional chances based on them doing something wrong; not protecting the gens/totem respectively, which btw both have huge counter play if survivors simply do bones.
If as a killer I mess up at a loop, the person gets more distance, is able to pallet stun me and that costs me time. Sometimes this is a deliberate choice in order to weaken an area of the map and often enough it is due to an error in judgement on my end. Do this to much and gens start flying. On the flip side survivors make a mistake, the killer gets closer or gets a hit. After their first hit they are granted a burst of speed to reset and try again or reset to heal and continue.
You claim that killers are not punished or notice the effect of a mistake dramatically... euhm... yes they do, they really really do... make a mistake or two in the early game and you will hear BOOM Gen one done, BOOM Gen two done, BOOM Gen 3 done. Killers cannot die, killers do not leave the trial as they are the individual facing a team... but don't kid yourself to believe their mistakes are not punished dramatically in games with good players. A single choice of chasing the wrong person or the chasing lasting 20 seconds to long can simply lose you the game.
When people talk about 2nd chance perks on survivors the are talking about a select few mainly the exhaustion perks and in particular:
- DS; the most annoying one to face, mainly because it grants immunity regardless of what the survivor does. Many people do not believe that it should be removed, yet should also not provide unconditional protection as it does now. It is meant as an anti-tunnel perk, but it does so much more than that. You can do a generator for 60 seconds without fear, you can heal up and therefore take an additional hit + be immune to being picked up and the worst offense is during the end game state you literally have an encounterable escape option. Simply the killer cannot do anything, pick you up: DS and escape, leave you on the floor: crawl and escape.
- Unbreakable; Once again another free to use perk, no conditions really other than be on the ground.
- Dead Hard; Dash forward in which you are immune to any damage, can pass any obstacle the killer placed down and make up distance when out of position. It turns the situation where the survivor messed up into a scenario in which the killer messed up, costing them time.
- Adrenaline: Instantly heal, recover and run quicker when the end game hits, resetting the majority of the effort that the killer put into the game. In essence the equivalent of NOED, but with no condition once again... it even ignores exhaustion.
- Sprint burst: allows you to play more boldly, more in the face of the killer and able to just run off and waste a lot of time of the killer. Personally I find this one most likely the most annoying one other than DS during the end-game.
The thing is that most of these perks have other equivalents, which might still be considered annoying and yet get less hate overall:
- Borrowed time, it protects anyone you unhook meaning that teamwork is rewarded and places emphasis on going after the savior rather than the hooked target and if you decide to tunnel, the survivor is given a speed burst to once again reset. Yet it is only in effect for a short period of time.
- Soul Guard, technically stronger than Unbreakable in my view as it can be used multiple times and provides protection after you stood up. Has a condition though.
- ... dead hard is just dead hard don't think anything provides the same effect. Also, personally don't mind it that much.
- Hope, in essence a lesser version of Adrenaline as it just provides speed, no recovery.
- Lithe, Balanced landing; but it is more restricted and usually cannot be used when stuck in a deadzone etc.
@Siberia said:
Eh. Wouldn’t need second chance perks if killers would quit tunnelling and camping. Both sides have their fair share of grief to deal with. I don’t play toxic as a survivor main but man, I get ######### on a lot by killers who wanna tunnel and camp even in red ranks.
Comments like this but tunneling and camping... come over to me like people that never play killer. Please try to reach rank 1 by only playing nice and ignore all the misplays and actions done by survivors or the state of the game. Also try a game and actually actively tunnel and face camp and see what that does for you especially at the higher ranks, usually it will cause you to lose.
Don't people ever wonder why these tactics are so wide spread and used? For a killer there usually two ways of winning, snowball so hard and fast that you can play 'nice' or based on your mistakes and/or how well the survivors play requiring to start playing a bit more brutal. On top of that many of the tunneling accusations is mainly due to the survivors themselves or their team just presenting them on a silver platter / being absent or based the situation and the killer needing to get someone out fast.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1682721#Comment_1682721
XD alright...
"Easiest way too Victory" lol
You know a Killer is so strong that he can kill all survivor in less then 20 secounds If he want.
Everytime I escape that mean I was better as a player who has a advantage against me. And tbh Killer are so strong right now, I 4k every match with Demo.
What you are literally asking for the win condition to be for free, if that isn't the easiest way to victory... I don't know what you classify for free as other than easy.
A killer cannot kill all survivor in 20 seconds or less, but sure prove us wrong beat every single person by a landslide:
Speedrunning leaderboards, resources, forums, and more!My question was why do people believe that a 1/4 ratio is not achieved and why people aren't playing the killer side? Your answer was: because killers want easy free 4k wins and that playing killer is easy to get always 4k wins regardless of who you play. Therefore more people would be playing killer and the killer side would have a queue instead of the survivor side... paradox.
Btw. if you escaped it isn't that you were the better player, it means your team performed well. Survivors are part of a 4 man group, not individuals and winning or losing is a combination of multiple people playing well.
If you are unbeatable god, tell me what tournaments are you winning and where can I see some of this gameplay because maybe I can learn a trick or two about killing 4 people in 20 seconds for easy clap wins or is it just a big bark without any truth?
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1682112#Comment_1682112
Because Killer only play games If they got a 4k for free. Everything else is "too sweaty"
Uhm, interesting answer to the query: Ask yourself, why aren't you playing killer?
Apparently you seek the easiest way to victory and want it to be handed out for free. Mmmh... so that is why you play survivor. I think you are on to something here...
Yet if you believed that people would play killer if it was easy and by your words they are easy... why are we lacking killers. You get the paradox in your statements right?