JustCats
JustCats
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@OutcastEric said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/166543/really-killers
thats wierd, every single game i played yesterday as killer, there were at least 2 flashlights and all the best survivor meta perks.
The point is that killers have a responsibility to survivors to provide an enjoyable gameplay experience, for some unknowable reason, whereas survivors are just trying to play the game, man.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1395294#Comment_1395294
Well I'm referring to people like the ones I quoted, literally trying to act like the OP is just plain old saying "I just hate diversity and it has no place in any media."
It's that kind of attitude that makes people actually take up attitudes like that, because they feel like that's all the other side cares about: their agenda.
I just think people need to stop demonizing each other when they obviously aren't trying to be hateful. Some people just need some discussion to set their mind on the right path and like I said, just calling somebody buzzwords and trying to lump them in with people that are actually crappy is just... Divisive, simply put.
Except that's exactly what the OP was complaining about. It's fine if you don't like TLOU2 because you think the story is weak. How is that relevant at all to an effort by BVHR to introduce some non-binary representation into their game? It's fine if you think some shows don't do a good job of representation. How is that relevant at all to saying DbD is making a mistake by trying to introduce more diversity to their roster?
The OP wasn't saying, "here's a suggestion of how to do representation right," he's literally saying "maybe you can do it right but I don't want you to even try because other people did it in a way I don't like." Not to mention, the only example provided of it being done "wrong" or "distasteful" to him is some meme-y slogan that doesn't really have any bearing on anything.
We can go around in circles about who's being the unconstructive snowflake but I haven't seen anybody offer anything except variations on "if you make me think about it you're pushing some vague and undefined agenda and that's bad."
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@Bravo0413 said:
I am going to start out by stating I have been unable to find the same "magic" (I guess I'll call it) I've had before with DBD, may be it is just time for me to move on and either find another game or it could be time too give up gaming in general.... but time to move on too the hard stuff and this could potentially be difficult to discuss.
I made the choice to check on some DBD news knowing that the event was close and I discovered a letter from the team discussing "equal representation" and "giving sexual orientation" to the characters. Now IMO this is a poor move by the team because of the RPG element that this game currently has... maybe BHVR you can do this right but it has been done wrong many times before, the latest example is "The Last of Us 2", the players hate this game. Another example is "Batwoman" the tv series on CW. the batwoman tv series is an example of the saying "get woke, go broke", in just one season the show lost 1million viewers because of how hard they pushed the agenda. I really don't want to see a game that I am trying to get back into become a "Batwoman" or "TLOU 2" and seeing that letter set off a red flare telling me not to play because of where this game could be going, neither batwoman or "TLOU2" show "equal representation" please don't be like them!
Side note: I am also upset you released the event cosmetics to everyone. A portion of the community explained why they didn't want this to happen and since this move has happened you should mine as well release "legacy" to everyone. Players, especially the hardcore players want recognition..... if everyone is a winner what is there to actually play for?
that is all and as I said this may not be easy to discuss but it does need to be discussed, both choices could be signs of BHVR moving in a poor direction.
The only reason it's a conversation we need to have is because people like you still don't get it. This isn't about you, this isn't about being "woke," this isn't some conspiracy against straight white guys. It's just a minor little thing (to you) so that people who aren't straight white guys get a little nod to their existence.
There's no reason this should put you off at all. Did you start a thread complaining that this game forced you to play a woman character from time to time? It sometimes makes you play a character with glasses. Sometimes, some of the player characters are even... black. How does it affect you, in any way whatsoever, that here and there we might see a nod to a character who is gay or transgender? How does that affect you in any way that the other representation doesn't?
I'm sure there's a million whatever excuses and "oh BHVR doesn't really care" whatevers but the short answer is - it doesn't affect you at all. So what, exactly, is the problem? My suspicion is that it lies with you and not the game.
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@7snowboards said:
For me survivor games get found almost instantly while killer games take around 5 minutes maybe more to queue. I think the main reason for this is that there are lots of killers trying to play and not many survivors trying to play at the moment.
It's probably because there's not enough high rank killers to go around, so matchmaking gets all gunked up trying to make the best games possible.
That's the only legitimate reason I can see for getting so many groups of 4 red-rank survivors as a 10/11 killer. Which is a real bummer cause I de-pipped on purpose to get away from the toxic cesspool of red-rank survivors and now I have to play them anyway.
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Game's not dying anytime soon, too much DLC so plenty of sunk cost to keep people on this one by default. People say it's dying cause it's generally a miserable playing experience. But those random fun ones keep people around. It's like golf - the vast majority of your time is an exercise in frustration and annoyance with a ludicrously designed game, but that one sweet drive or birdie has you back for next time.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394996#Comment_1394996
Maybe make it a 1 time only thing then. So the survivor using the perk would need to pick which wall to break.
Honestly, most of the breakable walls benefit the killer more than survivors when broken, so it wouldn't be as useful as it might sound, but hey, with breakable walls being a thing, survivors could have a way of interacting with them...
I don't particularly enjoy them as a killer, I just can't think of any other reason why only killers can break them.
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I am pretty sure that having breakable walls only breakable by killers is a balance choice, I'm not so sure what gets accomplished by letting survivors break them. Survivors already have every other environmental advantage.
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So you just want to make her an entirely m1 killer who just uses her phase to get around the map. Sounds fun. I'm not sure when I'd ever think that blinding myself but staying mostly visible to survivors would be a great choice.
Please understand that these vaunted "mindgames" are always just 50/50 guessing games where survivors usually have the information advantage. Spirit just turns that dynamic on it's head, but only in a looping scenario when she has phase available.
My advice would be to prioritize not getting into close range encounters with a deadly murder ghost? "Interactivity" is not so simple as to be boiled down to the limited and dull mechanics of running in circles around a pile of trash, and does not have to be the exact same thing for every killer. If you keep her at medium to long range and force her to use her phase to catch up to you, she doesn't have it for the window or pallet jump and becomes as one dimensional as you're suggesting to make her by default. Yeah, it means playing with a head for stealth. Yeah, it means paying a lot more attention to where Spirit is on the map, in a macro sense. Yeah, it means the usual Benny Hill stuff isn't going to work as well as it normally does.
The reason Spirit is a top-tier killer is because survivors tend to eventually get horse-blinded into a loop-or-die mentality - which is a trait shared by pretty much all the "top-tier" killers. They're only powerful because they can subvert the survivor meta playstyle in some way. Every killer is going to try to push you into situations where they have the advantage. For Spirit (and a few others) the survivors do that for them, once survivors get "good" enough to recognize their usual advantage in a loop.
For what it's worth, I main killer and usually rank up to about 5 and then buy a new killer and start over with no perks to de-pip out of the toxic red-rank dumpster fire (I generally average a 2k in any game from rank 12 to rank 5 - survivors don't necessarily get better they just play differently, and are 100% better sports in the green/purple range). I can tell you that playing Spirit gets easier the better I am ranked and the more red-ranked survivors I have in the game.
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@EnderloganYT said:
the most they should do is offer a totem counter in a perk or as basekit to help Solos. and please give me your best Anti-NOED phrases so that I may say why the are wrong
I haven't played survivor in a bit so maybe I'm unaware. Are solos unable to do bones during the match? Can they not just leave after last gen? There's only been one patch since my last survivor game but I don't remember either of those things being a thing.
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@Tjiani said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394743#Comment_1394743
I am going to assume you haven’t read the entire thread.... i have Said multiple times I am not asking to be let out, or have “free wins”... i am simply just asking people to stop being so god damn toxic and purposly doing what they can to prevent survivors from getting crowns, Mori Them next to Them or carrying Them to a crown just to hit it multiple times and then carry one back to a hook.. if you dont consider that toxic you are a part of the problem
Yeah I only managed about halfway as my tolerance for survivors upset that killers don't take it easy enough on them is worn extremely thin. I agree that using improvised emotes to BM survivors is bad sportsmanship and would never do it myself. I hope you remember this the next time there's an urge to teabag or clicky clicky or do any of the thousand other things the survivors do to killers whether there's an event running or not. I'm not saying that you do, just that you've gotten an unfortunate but maybe valuable window into the killer day-to-day.
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Just do bones. If you don't want to do bones, then just leave - it only activates when you're basically free to escape. NOED's only really ever going to be a problem for you if you don't play smart during the match and you're being overly altruistic.
I mean, the thing doesn't even kick in until you've already essentially won and you've got the whole game to make sure it doesn't even work then. But that's somehow still too strong?
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@Tjiani said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394671#Comment_1394671
Once? Lol i try to get Them on all my survivors, i Think most people do... lol
So a killer is supposed to let you escape like 20 times or else they're toxic? I don't think the event was intended to provide you with as many free wins as you have survivors.
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@skarsguts said:
I have noticed I've faced literally nothing but tunneling Legion that use their power for a first free hit and then cancel to insta-down, Huntress with iri-head and ebony, and a slugging, camping Leatherface for the past week.
Just as a note for your complaint, Legion's cancel is a 4 second stun. If you can't get away with a 4 second head start that's kind of on you.
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Injured survivors make a ton of noise, run super distinctively, and take half as much effort to go down. Targeting an injured survivor isn't toxic it's literally what the game says you're supposed to do.
Tunneling isn't a real thing. It either refers to a survivor that lost hard or a survivor that got farmed by their teammates. Neither of these scenarios are fun for the survivor but neither of these scenarios are somehow the killer's responsibility to alleviate.
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@NinjaDette1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394659#Comment_1394659
you can do absolutely whatever you want there is no rule.
Obviously - I'm just referring to yet another snowflake excuse to have expletives hurled at me in postgame.
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Am I supposed to let survivors escape until the absolute end of this extended event or get branded as toxic or is there a point where I get to play the game before then?
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@TheMythAJ said:
I’ve always been curious as to why killers find some perks to be so game breaking... Why is DS such an issue? BT? Unbreakable? Feel free to add any other perks that are extremely effective that you all have problems with.
This is an attempt to understand the complaints, not an attack. At most I’ll just respond with what I think are simple counters, ways around, etc.
There are two main reasons.
- It erases something the killer actually did with something that took zero effort on the survivor's part. When you get beat by a Dead Hard, you tip the cap. When DS or BT goes off it's just cheese. It's a "lobby outplay" that in many cases mean the survivors get away scot free for doing... nothing.
- It punishes the killer for poor survivor decision-making. I understand that these are intended (hopefully) to cut down on camping and tunneling, but the vast majority of times I see them as a killer they're just used as free bullet-proof shields to make unsafe hook saves. More often than not my hooks are literally swarmed with survivors 2 sec after they're up there, whether I'm even still in view or if I've just barely turned a corner. That should be a huge survivor misplay, but these perks make it virtually consequence free.
It's less that there's no counterplay and more that there's no original play. The game just decides that survivors get free passes to make terrible mistakes and killers either lose chases/hooks/kills despite earning them through gameplay, or they have to go around their elbow to get to their ass to always play around something that takes no input, skill, or strategy from the survivor.
There are other ways to address camping/tunneling/slugging than these perks, which actually serve to encourage the behavior more than discourage. I'm much more likely to go after the farmed survivor early in a match, for example, to hopefully blow the DS before it matters. I'd rather attack the farming survivor (since with BT it's probably two hits to down either of them), but the game pushes me the other way. The easiest way to deal with aggressive unsafe unhooks? Stay close to the hook, so you can get the first hit on the unhook as the animation starts, giving you the 2nd just as it ends, and trade hooks. Camp, in other words. I'd rather be roaming the map looking to hunt survivors, but 9 times out of 10 I know there's at least one who probably won't even wait until they can't see me to attempt the unhook.
And why wouldn't they, when the game holds their hand and protects them so efficiently?
All you'd have to do is replace these protection and take-backsie perks and just make the entity swallow survivors after a (somewhat lengthened, given current gen repair speeds) hook cycle and deposit them, injured but free and alive, at a spawn location of their choice. Survivors can unhook early if they want. Make a disgusting pod shoot up and grab em and transport em through the upside-down or whatever. Remove the idea of a "death hook" and just give each survivor two hooks, and on their last spawn they're permanently "broken" and cannot heal, and let the killer mori as a base mechanic when they're downed for the last time. Three strikes and you're out. No more tunneling, no more camping, no more slugging, and no more annoying survivor "oopsie nevermind" perks.
If your teammates farm you, it should be on them, not the killer, to shoulder the responsibility for the consequences.
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I think they're not so much OP but implemented poorly. Restructured, both keys and moris could introduce some depth to the game.
I honestly think that both should be base kit abilities, but carry significant downsides. So every killer should be able to get greedy and murder a survivor on their own, to the displeasure of the entity who retaliates by making it easier on the remaining survivors. Maybe auto popping two 0% gens if there are 3 survivors left after the mori, opening the gates early if there are two remaining, and shackling the killer to half movement speed if only one is remaining after the mori.
On the other hand, I think the hatch should always be available from the match start, but close permanently 10 seconds after it's opened, and award full sacrifice bloodpoints to the killer as a "coward" escape for any survivor that uses it unless they are the last remaining.
Rough ideas, obviously, but I'm all for introducing new strategic pro/con choices to this game that pull it out of it's "oh i see you let's run in circles for a while" default gameplay loop.
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Hex: Rubber and Glue. On clearing a dull totem, survivors lose a random perk for the duration of the trial.
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@Anti_Social said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/165592/does-borrowed-time-need-a-nerf
you acknowledge its an anti-tunnel perk... simple solution don't tunnel people.
The problem is that it generally puts the responsibility for the consequence of poor survivor play on the killer's shoulders rather than punishing tunneling. Survivor runs up to a hook that the killer just left and farms his teammate. No biggie, you're both two hit downs now, and probably stacking other second chances on top.
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I do feel like if killers have to suffer through having giant hitboxes then collision should favor them. Bodyblocking is such an irritating mechanic that makes no sense to be in the survivor toolbox.
So I'm too big to get through a window as quickly as a survivor, but I can get pushed around by them too?
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I would just like to see these second chance perks require some input from the survivor beyond just choosing to run them in the lobby, as for the most part they passively invalidate a killer's actual actions. It should not require absolutely zero effort to obtain such a massive in-the-moment "outplay."
DH is an example of these kinds of perks done right - the survivor has to pay attention and time it well. It's not just a passive grace period that rewards poor survivor decision-making more than anything else. I can say that as a killer who never enters a match meaning to camp/tunnel/slug that survivors running these passive invulnerability/second-chance perks almost always engage in the kind of risky plays that virtually require me to pay more attention to hooked survivors than I would normally want/intend to.
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Killer generally kind of sucks to play because the only time it feels like you "win" are in a 4k (or 3k hatch) outcome. It's inevitable when their stated objective is to kill the survivors so that none of them escape. If the game is balanced around a 2k/2e outcome, that means the vast majority of games are going to be fairly unsatisfying for a killer. A 2k/2e is a shrug at best.
For a survivor, it feels like you "win" whenever you escape. So if the game is balanced around aiming for a 2k/2e, that means that 50% of the time, any individual survivor is going to feel like they "won." It also never feels like you really lost unless it's a 4k as you're a member of a team. As long as some of your team gets out, the survivor is going to feel like they at least contributed to that overall victory.
So you are left with a game where one team needs to utterly dominate to feel like they won (which encourages the tunneling/camping everybody hates), whereas the other team will feel like they "won" in the vast majority of games, given that the ideal outcome from a balance standpoint is 2k/2e and only one survivor needs to make it out for some level of dopamine reward for the survivors.
That's also a fundamental aspect of the core design loop, and has no easy fix. Bloodpoints, after a certain point, don't really cut it.
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Probably because they had 15 games in a row of red rank survivors who didn't clear totems.
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There are a couple of reasons, and I don't know how fixable they are.
One, the major source of tension in this game isn't a murder monster hunting relatively helpless survivors. The source of tension is the same one as a deadline at work. Do I have the time to kill all these survivors? Thrilling. This puts survivors in the power role instead of the killer, as all of the tension, stress, and pressure is on the killer, and everything the survivors do just increases that time pressure. (On a side note this is why camping and tunneling are an issue. Getting a survivor off the board as quickly as possible - particularly the first one - makes the game exponentially more manageable for the killer).
The second reason, in combination with that, is that survivor mechanics are too simplistic. It does not take very much skill to repair a generator and takes only slightly more to frustrate a killer on a chase. Very few of those frustration abilities (pallets, windows, flashlights, looping in general) feel like getting outplayed as the killer - they just feel like getting annoyed. Virtually all of the survivor tools to aid in a chase rely on removing control from the killer for a game-defined period of time; it's a stun or a blind, every time.
Third, there is no time or space for creativity. Between gen speeds and scratchmarks, every game is the same exact thing with only minor variations depending on killer ability power. The killer has to rush to pressure the map, and since scratchmark visibility and durability mean that survivors can't realistically count on escaping a chase, it's loop and make the killer frustrated enough to abandon the chase - or die.
I personally believe that adding a time pressure mechanic to the survivors as well while reducing or eliminating scratchmarks would open the game up considerably, but that is an unpopular opinion.
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@Mooks said:
Lol
its really funny how always the survs are the bad ones in these forum stories.
meanwhile i had a Myers that didn’t try anything and I figured he wants to farm, turns out he REALLY liked to grab me from gens, so I thought he had a challenge. Then last gen popped, i got a crown and was happy to get my cosmetic. he downs me and camps me in the basement. I let him grab me 5 times.
guess what? There is scum on BOTH sides.
I don't doubt it. However I will say that in probably 9/10 matches as killer there is some sort of legitimate toxicity from one or more survivors whereas it feels like the opposite when I do play survivor.
I'm not counting irritating gameplay "toxicity" from either side (camping/tunneling/genrush/bodyblocking), just the overt taunting and foul end game chat stuff. Granted, I play a lot more killer than survivor so maybe that's not the case - but I am also a lower ranked survivor and never see a red rank killer, while as killer I see red rank survivors every game (which is where 99% of the toxicity comes from).
I don't know if that dynamic changes and full red rank games are just complete cesspools on both sides, but I can say that I can't wait for matchmaking to weed these guys out for me.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
Somedays, it's a toss up as to whether uninstalling the game would be enough for them or not! Those particular survivors would probably be offended even then!
Play as you like to, but I am glad to see op is laughing at this. That's a great attitude to take! :)
Yeah I mean ultimately it's whatever - they're dead either way - I'm just befuddled lol.
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It just seems like every game somebody's whining and moaning about some game "etiquette" mechanism whereby I'm supposed to let survivors escape. That was just a particularly bad one where I actually was trying to let them escape, and still got crap.
I chase an injured survivor in literally any scenario - wahhh tunneler.
I camp a hooked survivor when the gates open - wahhh camper.
I don't immediately hustle to the opposite end of the map on a hook - wahhh proxy and/or camper.
I chase the flashlight brigade instead of picking up the downed survivor - wahhh slugger.
And even in the case of a bad game - wahhh you suck l2p.
There's no escaping the toxicity. It doesn't really bother me, I've been playing multiplayer games long enough to where butthurt bad sportsmanship isn't really a thing, but it does make me ask: what, exactly, do they freaking want? I mean, like, literally, how do they expect killers to play?
Now, I'm not a rank 1 killer by any means, and if this was other relative newbies like me - then whatever, everybody's figuring it out. But the BM and eye roll inducing whining is almost exclusively from red ranks (thanks matchmaking, btw). Like do red rank killers unlock some special ability to just open the doors at the start of the match and just let the survivors walk out for easy peasy bp?
I fluctuate between rank 11 - 6, and usually when i get to the mid purples I buy a new killer to start over with and de-pip to greener (natch) pastures, because I don't know all the special rules about letting survivors win and it seems like brown-purple ranks don't get all twisted up over it. (Edit: and it's not smurfing, tbh I don't notice any particular skill level difference from survivors going up and down like that, and generally average about 2k wherever I am.)
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Maybe a Zone of Politeness aura around the hook so that survivors can get safely unhooked and heal up without having to worry about the bloodthirsty murder monster. Maybe getting hooked should just transport survivors to a safe zone where the other survivors just have to tag them back in. Maybe survivors could get a naughty finger wagging emote for when the killer misbehaves.
Or just pretend like Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers or Leatherface caught and murdered you in a particularly unpleasant way, which bought your friends a valuable amount of time to further their escape plans. You were a redshirt; it happens.
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Legion is one of the most fun killers to play despite not being the most deadly precisely because he (she? they?) gets to avoid feeling like a lumbering idiot getting trash constantly thrown in his face. He's the only killer I don't actually mind looping with cause at least it feels like I'm chasing the survivor and not being led on a leash. He feels fast and deadly (even without FF), despite the fact that he's less lethal than pretty much the rest of the roster.
I get far fewer 4ks with Legion but enjoy my games on him much more reliably, which is probably what the game should be aiming for.
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This is the only game I think I've ever played where it's even a question as to whether or not one team needs to compensate and go easy on a team that makes a mistake or is in a weak position, because otherwise it's "not fun for them."
Let me ask you this - do survivors who come across a gen you've kicked say "oh, well, I'm going to let this one regress so the killer can have more fun" or refuse to do bones because "it can't be fun for the killer to play without perks?" The best a group of survivors ever does for a killer is decide not to teabag or otherwise grief the killer.
I am assuming you're not playing killer as some kind of charity work for four random strangers on the internet. This game isn't about their fun. Your objective is to kill as many of them as you can, so do that. If "tunneling" or camping gets you there the fastest, then don't feel bad about it. The cries of the injured aren't a warning to you to stay away from them; they're supposed to be vulnerable and in danger.
It's the responsibility of their teammates to keep them out of danger, not yours.
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@Throwaway123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1378774#Comment_1378774
Alert, OoO, Dark sense tells you where the killer is "Killer is on me at x, killer is headed towards y" tells you where the killer is.
Spine Chill tells you when killer is headed your way along with helping with speeds/skill checks. "Killer hooked me and is headed towards you at shack gen" tells you when the killer is headed your way. Comms give no help in checks/speeds.
Small Game helps you know where a totem or bear trap is. "Killer placed a trap at shack window. I saw ruin totem it's at x but killer is after me."
I have heard all of this and more communicated in swf groups. Again, comms are weaker than some of these perks and stronger than some of these perks, but regardless comms still gives you the information these perks can provide. All for free.
Have you ever played in a swf? You dont know where the killer is at every time.
I have, and you know basically all the time. On top of it, even had I not, swf friends stream on Twitch all the time and you can load up tons of streams for examples of it. Even rank 10 players will say "killer chasing me over at x. I'm injured at y come heal me, etc"
And no, having wall hacks and telling your friends when the killer is chasing you isnt the same
"And no, having information where your opponent is and having information where your opponent is isn't the same." That's what you just said.
Especially if you're playing a stealth killer, having someone say "Killer is at x" is a MASSIVE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. Use your brain for 10 seconds and you'd realize swf is extremely unfair. But you probably won't admit it because you're biased.
And this is the primary reason why swf is busted. It's not just that it's easy to coordinate, it's that most survivor perks were designed and balanced around the idea of limited information from other survivors. Comms completely invalidates that.
A full group swf has 16 perk slots to share between them. This means that they all will be running between 6-7 perks each, if they're trying at all.
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Killers don't really have the means to be toxic the way survivors do. There's no emoting, no flashlights to click, most of them can't even duck. Plus, who has time for that BS as a killer. The only "toxic" behavior is when they violate some random rule in the Survivor's Rulebook for Killers, which is honestly not so much toxicity as it is just playing the game a way the other team doesn't like. For example, camping in a shooter isn't toxic, it's just lame.
So yeah, survivors are going to be more toxic. It's honestly astonishing to me how frequently they are, however, especially considering that the game is largely stacked in their favor. But that may be part of it - lots of opportunities for survivor BS, and if they lose it's going to feel "unfair" because it probably doesn't happen often.
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There are four survivors in every game. Why should each one of them see keys as often as the one killer sees Moris?
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Have been playing for about a month. Aesthetically it's great. And I do have fun playing, it's just that the game has some very simple design flaws that, if they were addressed, would make the experience so much better that I know I'm not playing what the game could be and likely never will. So ultimately it's kind of a weird sort of happy disappointment. It's fun, but could be so much more fun.
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Bought the game intending to be a survivor and looking forward to the tension and fear of being hunted while trying to escape. Switched to killer when I realized that was the role with any level of horror anxiety.
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As killer I prefer the immersive stealthy types cause then I get to use my eyes and ears. I'll usually have some idea of the general area and then I get to be a murder monster actually stalking prey. The most fun games I've had were ones where I had to make a serious effort at actually hunting survivors.
The survivors that run up and point/flashlight click or make no effort to not be seen and just want to play duck duck goose around a pile of trash - I mean, I gotta do it cause that's the game, but looping is godawful boring. I'm not entirely sure how that became the skill defining metric, but c'est la vie.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Well, they all suck to have happen to them. Seriously, play nothing but survivor for two months straight, and you'll see everything they all complain about.
There really aren't that many SWF groups, and not all of them use comms. Respectfulnancymain and I occasionally play together and we don't use Xbox Party Chat at all. The whole SWF thing just sounds like an excuse at this point.
As for your last little sentence, the titles of the roles are misleading. Killer is a much snappier and more catching title than Torturer, Tormentor, Hunter or any other similar thing. Same goes for Survivor, since it could be changed to Victim and it'd have a similar description to the actual gameplay. I know that heaps of people don't care about it, but look at what the Pip system asks of you: HURT Survivors, Hook them, keep them off generators. Kill them when the time is right. I can guarantee you that it is entirely possible to rank up to Rank 1 (theoretically so don't go biting my head off!) without actually killing anyone as far as I know. I made it to red while dying in heaps of my games because I play to my objectives. There is more than one way to play killer, and more people should branch out from the typical skulls-on-the-end-screen mentality.
Give me some other way to prevent the survivors from escaping and sure, I'll branch out. Bloodpoints are meaningless to me aside from the grind and I couldn't care less about pipping or a random ranking number that nobody sees until the end of the game. I'm in the trial to try and make sure nobody escapes and the only means I have to do that is to try to kill them all.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Well, they all suck to have happen to them. Seriously, play nothing but survivor for two months straight, and you'll see everything they all complain about.
There really aren't that many SWF groups, and not all of them use comms. Respectfulnancymain and I occasionally play together and we don't use Xbox Party Chat at all. The whole SWF thing just sounds like an excuse at this point.
As for your last little sentence, the titles of the roles are misleading. Killer is a much snappier and more catching title than Torturer, Tormentor, Hunter or any other similar thing. Same goes for Survivor, since it could be changed to Victim and it'd have a similar description to the actual gameplay. I know that heaps of people don't care about it, but look at what the Pip system asks of you: HURT Survivors, Hook them, keep them off generators. Kill them when the time is right. I can guarantee you that it is entirely possible to rank up to Rank 1 (theoretically so don't go biting my head off!) without actually killing anyone as far as I know. I made it to red while dying in heaps of my games because I play to my objectives. There is more than one way to play killer, and more people should branch out from the typical skulls-on-the-end-screen mentality.
Give me some other way to prevent the survivors from escaping and sure, I'll branch out. Bloodpoints are meaningless to me aside from the grind and I couldn't care less about pipping or a random ranking number that nobody sees until the end of the game. I'm in the trial to try and make sure nobody escapes and the only means I have to do that is to try to kill them all.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1367287#Comment_1367287
Or they decided to tunnel. I can't tell you how many times I've seen killers abandon a chase the moment the unhook happens. Who will do everything they can to bypass the rescuer to go for the person just off the hook. If I see the killer coming back after I unhook I will run head long at them. Half the time they'll ignore me or hit me and keep after the person off the hook. So it's not always they aren't protecting you.
So... instead of taking the obvious bait they go after the vulnerable one?
I mean, I don't know what you expect a killer to do besides ignore an objectively preferable alternative specifically for the benefit of the opposing team.
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It's not the number of gens or gen speed that makes a swf potentially unpleasant, it's that with comms each survivor in the party gets to effectively run 6-8 perks each depending on how they share the 16 available slots. For example, if one person runs Spine Chill, they all run Spine Chill. A swf isn't hell to play versus because of genrush it's hell to play because they will all know exactly where you are all of the time while still being able to run a full compliment of gorilla and utility perks.
The obvious fix is to just lose a perk slot for each additional party member, but apparently it's viewed as a "punishment" to people who want to play with friends if they lose their tremendous advantage.
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The fact that "tunneling" and "proxy camping" are even things just bewilders me. The whole reason you make so much noise is so you're easier to find. You're supposed to be vulnerable in that state, it's the whole point. Obviously if I'm not otherwise occupied I'm coming back to the hook after a rescue, obviously I'm going to try to find the injured one if I can, obviously I'm going to target people who've already had hooks if I have the choice. The fact that so many survivors unhook the moment I turn a corner when I'm not engaged with anything/anyone else isn't my fault. Anything less is straight up killer malpractice. This idea that a I need to completely abandon a hook like it never happened or somehow doesn't actually contain the most vulnerable prey and I should be trying to run as far away from it as possible or that I should prioritize healthy never been hooked survivors in chases or that I need to go for the obvious bait chase and get pulled off the one who has largely exhausted their options or else I'm a scummy player is ridiculous.
Like, why isn't it a thing where I can complain that I kicked a generator and the survivors didn't let it regress back down to zero? How come survivors aren't expected to stop doing gens while I'm in a chase because I'm currently busy and unable to come stop them?
Is it because it would be a ludicrous thing to suggest that a "fair" player gets there by intentionally throwing the game, and if they don't they're being unsportsmanlike and scummy?
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364833#Comment_1364833
The big deal is, YOU CAN NOT punish people for playing with their friends based on a SMALL segment of the community who craps on killers because they have comms. It's common sense, it's been discussed to death over the years, and somehow, some way, you still can't grasp that.
I guess I don't see it as punishment, that's all. You get the benefit of the strongest "perk" in the game in return for a couple of in game slots, depending on how big your group is. You'd still have a full build, it would just be spread out between your party members. You just wouldn't have the reward of having 6-10 perks per player anymore.
Even if your friends are awful and the swf is just a casual goof off, you're still benefiting and performing far better than a normal group of solos at comparable skill trying to do the same thing. It's always the biggest advantage a group of survivors can have, no matter how you're approaching the game.
I suppose they've already been super OP for forever and people are used to it. Of course... everybody already knows this... so I don't know how or why anyone would take it as a punishment and not a long needed correction.
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@SloppyKnockout said:
"Most SWF's are normally tryhards". You sound like the killer who says "nice SWF" every time they lose a game. Try hard teams are a VERY small portion of SWF's. MOST OF THEM. As in 99% OF THEM are just shooting the ######### with their friends. Get over yourself.
So what's the big deal if they don't have all the perk slots that solo queue survivors have?
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364544#Comment_1364544
Because its a fundamental game design problem. The problem with SWF is they have communication, you can't fix that. Its not quantifiable. How many perks is that communication worth? By my count, its about 13. So should they just not be allowed any perks? If so, what do you do about the other 9 free perks they get? You could make them move slower, or make gens take longer, but but what percentage. How do you calculate what you need to do to fix the problem? Also, anything you do to buff killers to deal with SWF hurts solos.
The best solution is to buff ALL survivors so that using discord is not a massive benefit over solo survivors, then buff killers to compensate. So much of the fundamental design of the game is based on information. Look at how many survivor perks do nothing but provide information about what other survivors are doing or seeing.
And if you go about "nerfing" SWF, then all it does is make people not want to play with their friends. The reality is, not every SWF group is a depip kill squad. When i play with my friends, they are terrible at this game and can't run the killer for more than 10 seconds. But i still play with them because it is fun.
Right, the primary draw for SWF is playing with their friends. They'd play even if they didn't have the full arsenal of perk slots available - and actually may even enjoy it more because there's a deeper strategic element. Instead of having a glut of perk slots to share so each member is essentially an 8 perk special forces warrior they'd have to consider the perk distribution carefully along with the relative strengths and weaknesses of their individual members. Besides, perks aren't as vital to survivors anyway - comms is a much bigger advantage than any perk build.
You might see some tryhard groups dodging lobbies and eating penalties to go all super delta force, but I'm pretty sure that'd be the minority of swf groups, who are apparently (according to the devs) not as common as people think anyway.
Yes, you could buff both solo queue survivors and killers but that's so much more hideously complicated and liable to break the game.
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That's the easy fix. Lose a perk slot for each additional party member. Comms is an advantage but an inevitable one; that doesn't mean they should have 16 perk slots to share between them.
People say this is a bad idea and it'll won't work but never why.
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Why not just stay away from a PH cage-tunneling since in order to avoid the meta survivor perks he's got to give up the meta killer perks? That way you'll be more likely to be in a good spot for a cage rescue and he won't be popping the generators you'll be doing.
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Part of the problem is that it's always going to be harder being the 1 in a 1v4. Part of the problem is that unfortunately very few survivor out-plays feel like out-plays to the killer - they're just frustrating and feel like cheese. Part of the problem is that there are a whole bunch of survivor "lobby out-plays" with passive second chance perks that require no other input from the survivor. Part of the problem is that the survivors can feel like their team "won" if somebody gets out, whereas the killer only really feels like they "won" when they kill all four - which shouldn't be very often. All and all it's a pretty punishing gameplay loop for a killer.
Plus, despite it being better balanced than it has been, the game is also still pretty survivor sided once you get out of brown/yellow ranks. Survivors will always be pushing their limits to see what they can get away with in regards to the killer, rather than to see if they can get away period. Whether that's good or bad is beside the point, it's the kind of game DbD is.
My advice: try to relax. Don't look at a loss as a failure but a move towards a more fun game for you. There is a sweet spot for every killer where the survivors aren't so tryhard to make the game unbearable and not so potato to make it an auto-4k.
Recognize that matchmaking is fubar and you're gonna have some unwinnable games. Don't smash your head into the wall trying to learn from these games - the frustration and toxicity you'll have to sit through isn't worth it. Just stay casual about chases and give up early on them, open the door for them when they finish the gens, find a wall to stare at and let them bleed the end game timer to the last second teabagging to nobody in the exit hall or behind your back (this will happen every single time). Remember that a 4e just helps you maintain a fun game for you - there's zero point to ranking up as a killer.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363553#Comment_1363553
Right, but if people want to argue they're not going to prove much, as I said, with anecdotal points that are poor cover for ad hominem attacks.
So your reply of 'stats aren't facts' is as true as my statement about stats>Anecdotal talking points.
However, if you think the 2 escape, 2 death metric is wrong? You can consider undoing a lot of the killer buffs they've received over the years. It is after all an art as much as it is a science.
Generally I do think you should try to maintain a 2e/2k average, yes, but you also have to acknowledge that this game is pretty heavily survivor-sided (in terms of balance) once you get to mid-ranks. That's when you (anecdotally, but undeniably) start seeing survivors hunting down killers to engage chases in which they have the macro advantage of time pressure.
Which means 2e/2k is a poor metric for balancing decision-making, as survivors have more gameplay options than killers - if survivors are OP the average is still likely to be 2e/2k as survivors will always push their advantages to the brink (as they should be expected to) and suffer a lot of unnecessary and avoidable deaths. They are less concerned with a 4e, in other words. However killers will always try to 4k. So a better metric would be to aim for an average of 1e/3k, as that would indicate that survivors are actually having issues and you have a good baseline to start making balance decisions to nudge it towards that 2e/2k spot.
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What else am I supposed to do while in the queue?