Icaurs
Icaurs
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None... addons are just that things to add onto the killer if you are playing to win. There is a big difference to playing a killer with or without addons and if you don't learn to play the killer properly, as in base then you will struggle unless you keep feeding BP into that killer to keep buying the addons you need. There is nothing wrong with addons inherently but if you are going to boost your power to artificially do better, then you need to be fine with survivors bringing items to do the same. FyI this goes for survivors as well.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2906050#Comment_2906050
They should check the perk compatibility if they change one from a surv set. I never really understood what sole surv should do.
So original object of obsession allowed you to see the killers aura permanently up to 72 meters away I think it was, revealing your own aura at the same time. Sole survivor hide their aura up to a a set distance, that increases with each dead survivor. The idea was that you would pair the two together and this would allow you to track the killer's aura without them being able to track you at an increased distance for each dead teammate. Now object got reworked and as a result you actually cannot see the killer's aura if your aura is hidden, making it impossible to pair to the two perks together. So its a pair of perks, with one being entirely obsolete now.
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Sole survivor was designed to pair with Object of obsession. They then reworked object and left sole survivor, you cannot even combine the two because of how new object works. Honestly don't care what change they do, anything would be an improvement.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904568#Comment_2904568
Like i said, that was an ideal situation for bubba.
She decides to run in a straight line without thinking about going to a loop, but instead run where there's nothing to use.
Well except for the tree but that was to late.
Let's be real, how many times will it actually be a situation where bubba uses all 3 tokens in 1 go and gets a down out of it?
Answer: rarely.
Yes he gains a lot of distance from a 3 token sweep, does that makes him very strong?
Only when you are out in the open.
When you are at a loop, he either has to stop because of a window, because he breaks a pallet, gets stunned by a pallet or bumps into something.
It's only when a survivor like that nea decide to run in a straight, that bubba becomes a treat.
Why would he not get an insta down from his chainsaw after that distance when a survivor decide to not play smart?
You came with the idea to make his chainsaw a 2 hit before going down.
What sense does his chainsaw make then?
It's only for the show and nothing more, and they will 99% of the time go for a M1 instead of his chainsaw.
Cause a M1 is faster that charging your chainsaw, sweep towards the survivor, wait for it to stop sweeping and then do it all over again.
Cause keeping the chainsaw sweep going after a hit isn't ideal, the survivor gets a sprint burst, vaults a window and is now out of reach of bubba.
Sure it looks good on paper maybe but not in practice.
And yes i acknowledge that denying a 2nd health state is strong.
But that is up to the survivor for letting it happen.
Myers, ghostface, huntress, billy, oni, deathslinger, trapper can all insta down you (might missed a few) how is that fair then?
You use loops to counter that, be aware of your surroundings, don't be to greedy, run earlier than you do against M1 killers.
Maybe you are just not that good against bubba, that doesn't make him unfair or in need for a nerf or OP or anything like that.
It's just a matter of personal skill and there is absolutely nothing wrong with or something to be ashamed of.
Everyone has a certain killer as weakness, it's natural.
And no I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that, I'm not saying you are bad at the game only not that good against a bubba.
You are missing the point, leatherface can
- cover a tone of distance with his swing
- instantly down with it
- down multiple people with it
- insane speed with it
- Have full control over it, complete mobility
- Force early pallet drops
- instantly break pallets
- Immediate use of it (build up).
None of this individually is an issue, not one of these is overpowered. But when you throw all of this on one Killer, you get a low skilled over tuned killer. All of those instant downing killers you named have some downside to their power. Myers takes build up, Trapper is luck based, Huntress requires an addon (and one hatchet is quite balanced, weak even), or if your talking about the hatchet, m1 combo that can only be done in specific situations HIllbilly is forced to commit to one direction allowing for survivors to predict and dodge. Death slinger needs and addon, ghotface can have his exposed negated ect. Not one killer comes close in comparison to bubba in terms of what they can do with their instant downing ability.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905414#Comment_2905414
Trying to run indefinitely is the problem. Stronger loops and more pallet access aren't necessary. I'm not proposing never get caught, I'm saying that more survivors should put that effort into breaking the chase.
Even if the killer gets the down, saves can be made without perks (requires more teamwork than perks) but still possible.
Realistically? no you cannot get the save. Maybe with BT/DS perhaps, hence why its such a common combo but without it you cannot. If you are versing killers that are legitimately struggling to camp then you must be versing very new players. As for "break the chase." Again you are saying to just not get down. That is not realistic, killers should not be losing you in a chase, if they are then you are versing very bad killers.
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Sounds like a pretty typical solo survivor experience. Tip, play SWF, only way to ensure your teammates don't kill you.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905409#Comment_2905409
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SKZ1YDCSS3ND/image.png
Posting this here in case you have not seen it before.
Wow... you seem like a barrels of fun. You must love... standing in front of a hook for 3 minutes. Way to show of your skill. Great strategy, and you thought of that all on your own.
In all seriousness call camping a strategy... if that's your idea of how DBD should be played, then I only hope that I never come across you. You seem like an extremely toxic player.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905409#Comment_2905409
1. No, it speaks to my willingness to admit what the devs have repeatedly stated, and what has been said here by the mods multiple times.
2. Show your evidence that either of those perks were created to fully stop camping.
1.I have no idea what you're talking about? I think your talking about camping, in which case there were trial ideas that were tested in order to fix this. Most notably the decreased hook timer decline speed when killer's camp. However there were other changes such as adding the swivel hook and giving survivors a 1 second immunity when unhooked to stop killers hitting them right out of the unhook. If camping was something they took no issue with, why make these changes in the first place.
2 My evidence, that BT, DS, off the record ect were created to to stop camping and tunnelling? My evidence is that those perks only work if a killer camps or tunnels? I mean they're not subtle about it either. They literally nerfed ds because if a person touches a gen while ds is active then they're not being tunnelled. Explain to me how BT or DS is suppose to work if a killer does not camp or tunnel? In your mind how were the perks intended to be used?
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904538#Comment_2904538
The survivors being camped and tunneled are denied nothing, it's on them to avoid and escape the killer long enough to do other objectives. If the highlight of the match was starring at the killer from a hook, seems like the survivor failed fairly early.
Your solution to not get camped.. is too not get hooked. I fully agree, but because of how DBD works where it is impossible to run the killer indefinitely so they can run the killer for an entire match. Bring back strong loops, double pallets ect. Revert all those "Map fixes" that the killers badly wanted so they could play the game, so they then can instead return to standing in front of a hook for 3 minutes Then when said survivors go down and are facecamped by a bubba with his chainsaw... then yes I will agree that they had a reasonable chance and its their fault for being facecamped.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904583#Comment_2904583
So you are amused at the idea that the devs create perks to help one side counter the other sides strategies? Do you also get as much of a chuckle out of Corrupt Intervention, pop, or Iron Maiden existing? All of them also exist to help killers counter survivor strategies. That's literally how the game is designed.
The fact you actually call camping a strategy really speaks volumes of your skill as a player. It would be like if a survivor went to the basement at the start of the match and hid the entire time, then once their teammates all died used left behind to find the hatch and escape. There is no skill involved and is incredibly boring. Yes... technically you won... congratulations you ruined the match for everyone else. Also, no, while camping has never been ban offence the devs have made multipole attempts to discourage it throughout DBD's history. Its been a contested issue because it does not allow for a match. There is no skill involved and is very boring to use and play against. Which is why BT and modern DS were created, not as a counter but as a hope that killers won't use it. The idea behind it is that killers won't use these strategies out of fear of the perk and less of an actual counter.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904583#Comment_2904583
how would you fix it? don't say stop/slow sacrifice Hook Stages if killer near by because it been done in a PTB soon removed because survivors abused it.
How would I fix it? Make it so the killer only receives the full points when hooking different survivors, to discourage hooking the same person all game. Have them lose 5% of their total points for every 25% of a survivors bleedout timer to discourage slugging. These ideas may not be perfect, but it would be a nice start instead of trying to justify ruining a match.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904589#Comment_2904589
It seems like a lot of speed and distance in the open, but in many loops it suddenly feels like less. Without that speed and distance Bubba would only get chainsaw downs by being directly behind survivors and then revving his chainsaw, which would give them time to escape. Just look at old Bubba.
Here is the thing, old Buba was weak yes, but he was extremely easy to play. Now he is just as easy, but now a far stronger killer. You don't need to outsmart players, you don't need to mindgame at tiles. You pick a direction and go. You have one weakness, windows. But even that isn't that big of a deal because he is a 115 killer by default.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904583#Comment_2904583
Cause it is fun to face 4xDH/BT/DS ?
Fact is you just see your little side of things. It has been years now that survivors are just abusing broken things, and now, everyday i see a campt/tunnel complain thread here.
- survivors used to abuse infinites
- survivors have always abused items
- survivors now abuse DH and boons
How long do you expect killers to continue to play the game ? How is it possible to be so self centered all the time ?
Yes they did... and you know what happened, the devs stopped it, and I am glad they did. They fixed infinites, nobody defended them, they fixed items, there was some backlash as they made certain items useless, but regardless they fixed it. As for DH and boons, DH is in a weird spot where its overpowered most of the time, yet mandatory at high ranks, I would not be opposed to nerfing it, however it could break high end matches. As for boons, the only boon that's overpowered is COH and I support nerfing it. Now do surviors abuse this as you put it? Yes. But most are at least willing to acknowledge it. You on the other hand would rather defend your toxic playstyle until this game ends because you are just as toxic.
However when it comes to camping/ tunelling some players like yourself are so desperate to abuse this, they have fought as hard as they could to ensure it has remained, and thus the devs never fixed this.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904436#Comment_2904436
believe it or not the Nea probably would've been safe if she hadn't tried to go around that tree at the end
Also, she was caught in a literal deadzone so that's not a very good example.
Why leatherface needs to have the ability to cover that much distance, and be an instant down, and have full control, and be that fast as well.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904538#Comment_2904538
I do not deny the survivors to play the game, on the hook or on the ground :).
On the hook the surv can move his/her arms, on the ground he/she can crawl.
And no, 4xDH/BT hugely prevent the killer to score hooks by the time the gens are done. 1 DH use = 30 seconds more chase. Since the hit validation on this perk, DH became way too strong. You cannot even bait it as if you use it right when you hear the start of the attack, the server will validate it.
With DH/BT/bodyblocks/toolboxes, the killer can do 3 hooks by the time 5 gens are done.
So yes, they come in the trial with broken loadouts, i play with a broken strategy.
Don't expect fairness from someone when you don't want to play fair.
Yeah this attitude is a prime example of why DBD has taken such a negative direction.
You utilize strategies that are simply unfun. The devs have allowed this and players see no issue with abusing this. So others respond in kind and those same players seem shocked that people respond just as negatively.
The devs stance on camping/tunelling is always amusing.
"it's a legitimate strategy, so we won't fix it." However here are a bunch of small bandaid solutions, that don't really fix it but make it somewhat bearable. D strike, BT, soul guard, off the record, baby sitter ect. Its like they are saying, we know its awful and we want to fix it but we also don't want to upset killers. So please use this and we hope it helps.
It would be far easier to just to outright fix it.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904470#Comment_2904470
The reason i asked about your hours was just to see if you were a new player or a veteran, many new players come to the forums complaining about something being OP or something while they are just learning the game.
I personally have also been playing since day 1 of the console release but stopped about after a month they forced sbmm in the game.
My killer games were 5 to 7 minutes and survivor games were not much longer either.
Now i would never ever say whether or not I'm top end MMR because there are no numbers to back that up, I would personally place myself as an above average player.
Everyone here on the forums say they are playing in high mmr while maybe only 10% actually plays there, so until there are numbers to back it up i will never say in what side of mmr I'm playing.
The thing with bubba is that he is strong, making him not able to turn will make him weak.
Because his chainsaw works on a token system as well as an overheating mechanic (very rarely ever happens) while billy chainsaw you can use whenever you you want without tokens, plus he has a very high mobility which you can't compare with bubba.
Even if you take away the tokens from bubba as well as his ability to turn will still make him weak.
That clip is exactly what happens in an ideal situation for bubba.
If she moved to a spot with a pallet or window, then she would have been fine.
Survivor running in a straight line will always go down easy and make things look easy.
In the clip she activates balanced landing, an exhaustion perk that moves them at at 150% movement speed for 3 seconds. Leatherface covers the same distance gained from an exhaustion perk. Against just about any killer she should have got away or at least gained a few more seconds, how is that an ideal situation? What is an ideal situation for leatherface no windows? because there are plenty of maps with few windows. Its not the distance that is the issue its the ability to get an instant down on top of this. Can we acknowledge how strong it is to deny survivors the second health state. Again, can you please explain why he needs to cover that much distance and be an instant down? I would be fine with him being able to instant, and I would be fine with his power having that much reach, but not both.
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so your solution to deal with unfun playstyles, is to be unfun yourself. Also DH/BT still allow for a match of DBD, they do not deny the killer the ability to play the game. Yes it can be frustrating, but you as a killer can still play. Camping and tunnelling denies all players the ability to do what is the most fun aspect of DBD (the chase) so its not fair to compare them.
Any players who says, I only do x because everyone else is was going to do it anyway.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904437#Comment_2904437
Just a genuine question and some proof of it would be welcome, but how many hours do you have in DBD?
Not trying to be mean or anything like that, I'm just very curious.
I have about 3k hours in this game and in the beginning i had massive trouble with bubba.
But once i knew how to run him i barely ever died to a bubba.
The mistake many survivors do is that they are way to greedy.
They try to loop him like a basic M1 killer, stick to a gen to long before start moving to a safe zone, not dropping a pallet when they should, etc, etc.
Once you get the hang of it you can run him for a very long time, trust me.
At best i would place bubba as a B tier killer.
But i don't actually do tier lists as they are just personal preferences.
I've played DBD on and off since 2017. I stopped playing it for most of 2020-21 and picked it back up a couple of months ago for the ring as she seemed fun. If you want my hours then here.
So yes, I am quite experienced and played both killer and survivor at high end MMR and actually played dbd on the day they buffed him and noticed within a few hours how strong he is. There is no way to loop him due to the speed and distance of his swing. Even if lets say you do everything perfect, and you actually beat him around a tile and manage to drop it, he still instantly breaks it with his chainsaw and because there is no penalty, within no time can use it again. You are either going to: A go down very quickly due to his ability to instant down or B drop the pallet early and burn through your limited recourses very quickly.
And I do agree about Tier list, they are mostly subjective. My point was a little unclear. I just think he is already quite strong and adding counterplay to him would not cripple him but balance him.
I made a post in a reply to somebody else on this discussion about a few posts above where I linked a video showing how much distance and how fast his swing it actually is. This is not meant to be condescending but could you please watch the video before replying and explain to me why his swing needs to be that far and that fast with the ability to instant down.
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Boons are fine the way they are. The only really strong boon is COH which is fundamentally a flawed idea because it removes players reliance on others to heal them and thus killers are no longer able to apply the pressure needed for survivors for slowing down gens. Is boon expediential really that strong? Or is shadow step OP? Not really. I promise you if COH never existed nobody would have an issue with boons.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904395#Comment_2904395
Tell me that you are joking around please?
Bubba the strongest?
Impossible to play around?
No risk with bubba?
That has to be your biggest troll comment by far
🤦🏻♂️
Most experienced DBD players put leatherface as an A tier killer. Who is also one of the easiest to play as he requires little prior knowledge and do not need to use mindgames at tiles to get quick and easy downs. The only real counter to him are windows, which is why every leatherface runs bamboozle to shut down any loop.
So.. yes he is very overtuned and needs something changed to balance him.
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When you say leatherface speeds up a little bit, this is what you mean by "A little bit."
https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtsyExquisiteReindeerM4xHehThat's a little bit... no that's insane catch up. Now I would not mind that, nurse can do that but do you know what she can't do.. Instantly down. If leatherface had restricted mobility he would go from an A tier killer to maybe a C tier he would not be the worse in the game... not even close. You would simply have to be smart on when to use his chainsaw, instead of "hold chainsaw for 3 seconds and you cover that much distance. Its not realistic to dodge his chainsaw and is far stronger then hillbily in a 1V1. The only thing he does not have is the ability to traverse the map like hillbily. Here is an idea, would you agree to making his chainsaw a two shot? He remains exactly the same but requires two hits to down. I think that would fix a lot of issues with him.
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25 seconds is nothing. If you can't loop a killer for that length of time, you are going to need far more practice. Now of course you can "ok what if we double it" But then if the killer is chasing you for almost a minute and any competent killer will see the chase is a waste of time and go find somebody else who is out positioned.
Also I think you underestimate how strong seeing the killer's aura in a chase is. You can tell if he is hiding his stain, committing to one direction, doubling back ect. I recommend you run Alert as it will show what can happen when you can see the killer's aura.
I am quite an experienced survivor and I seriously mean this, if I could see the killer's aura, I could run most M1 killer's for an entire match.
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Unfortunately Hex perks vary quite drastically in strength and would be very hard to balance around this. For example devour hope may work as only having the eyes lit up for the first 2 stacks may be fair, however what about Huntress lullaby? 3 stacks of that is nowhere near as strong as 3 of devour hope. I think a simple positive change they could make would be to make it so the Hex only is lit once its in effect, like Hex: NOED. It seems a little unfair that survivors can disable a perk before it has even had any effect on the game. This would ensure you get some value from the perk, even if its is very little, before it is destroyed.
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The tutorial for DBD is extremely poor and teaches players very little. Behaviour should get some youtubers to send them videos on how to play DBD for them to upload onto their YouTube channel.
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@jesterkind said:
If people don't like when Bubba facecamps, but also don't like when he actually uses the fun and engaging chase power he has, I'm not sure what's going to be left of poor Leatherface once he's been changed...
In all seriousness, turning corners with the chainsaw is what differentiates Bubba from Billy and it's a core part of his kit, you can't just nerf him to take it away or he'll be a genuinely terrible and useless killer. It's not impossible to play around it, you just have to not be super close to him when he starts the sweep- which, y'know, I think it's fair for a killer to have an edge if they're right on top of you.
Yeah... being able to turn unlike Hillbily is exactly why he needs to nerf. Hillbily is balanced due to the ability to use tiles to force an M1 hit instead of his chainsaw. Leartherface does not have this issue as he can easily make turns. His swing covers entire tiles, you should test how far it covers, its more then an entire tile. It is impossible to play around as leatherface forces players to drop pallets extremely early in order to avoid a hit. His chansaw is far easier to control then Hillbily and can down multipole players at once. Instantly downing survivors is a very risky power as its very strong to deny the injured state. Done properly there is no risk at all to leatherfces instant down power and is by far the strongest.
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While a lot of people put Nurse spirit, Blight in the same Tier, I would say post spirit rework, its more Nurse, Spirit, and then Blight in a seprate category. Before the Spirit change, she was similar to Nurse where she was simply OP. Where in theory Spirit and Nurse should win 99% of matches. The issue was due to her being far easier to play then Nurse, she was played more often. However ever since they gave survivors the ability to counter her, she was moved to the same tier level as Blight. With only Nurse being in the (OP) category. So Spirit and Blight are both very strong, but they both still have some counterplay. However due to the fact that she is far harder to play now, and she is 110 speed killer, which means she has to use her power to get downs, (unlike Blight) most of the spirit players moved to Blight.
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Deception for survivor as it is a perk that requires skill and game knowledge to be used effectively. Both sides can use their game knowledge to use and counter it.
Hex: Devour hope for killer. The only perfect killer Hex as it is the perfect blend of high risk high reward.
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The survivor emotes serve a purpose.
The point, is to warn players of a killer approaching, or to tell others to go to certain place.
The come here is done when they want somebody to follow.
Tea bagging isn't an emote its the crouching ability done to hide.
The flashlight clicking is just the sound affect that is played when activating a flashlight.
All of these are not in itself taunting but rather serve a purpose in a match. Now you can say that they are used to taunt but here is the issue, survivor taunting is different to killer taunting. Survivor taunts are used to keep the killer's attention, this is a strategy used when they don't want the killer to interfere with whatever they are trying to do. Now they can be toxic, done simply to annoy, the best way to deal with that is not to start taunting back, but rather either ignore them, or just kill them.
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I really like this idea. I honestly would like to see more perks that have strong benefits but take time to build up towards. Similar to killer's Hex Devour hope. The problem with current MOM is not that its to hard to activate, but rather its actually detrimental to the survivor to waste time trying to activate it.
- You have waste time following behind the killer.
- You have to give the killer a free hit.
- You have to then waste further time healing in order to get any real value from it.
that is a lot to get one free health state.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895481#Comment_2895481
No offence to anybody in this thread who's a streamer but
From what I understand the cheaters who streamsnipe usually only target the semi-big to bigger streamers because more people will see their shenanigans + they think they can get reactions out of people. In one of Choy's videos about cheaters he shows the 'List' they have of people. It specifically mentions if they are a big streamer/how big and such. Also reasons to target them, which is odd but w/e right?
I highly doubt cheaters go after the smaller streamers too often, I'd wager most streamsniping that happens is usually from the killer seeing a ttv name or checking a steam profile and then putting it on a 2nd monitor or smth. It's not techincally against DBD's rules (As in they don't ban you for it) so yeah.
That's what I was referring to as well. However a large issue is small streamers often self promote (twitch name on steam page or username). People will quickly check to see if their streaming. Its kind of a problem with no solution. Promote your twitch channel, increase the risk of being sniped. Don't promote, remain a small channel. I think its just part of being a streamer honestly, you will get sniped, it can't be avoided. It just so happens DBD is the type of game that allows for people to easily get enjoyment ruining someone else's fun.
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So I'm going to be very careful with what I say, as I do not want people learning how to do this but let me explain how stream snipping works.
Some people use player usernames to snipe, however this method is not every effective.
There are hacks that can be purchased through the internet, I will not say where, and I do not encourage, be warned that people who attempt this run the risk of downloading the wrong hack and being doxed. These hacks allow for a variety of features, most notably a stream snipping mod. Imagine there is a quee of people waiting to join a lobby. This hack can show where each player is in, based on the quee, not off their username, but their steam iD. You could hide the player name for the entire match and this would accomplish very little. Even worse the hack shows when a person is about to connect to a lobby and if you attempt to connect at this moment you will connect to their lobby It is not completely guaranteed I think its around a 75% chance that it works. Its even worse as there is a gorup that has colleciton of prominent DBD streamer IDs, and therefore simply has to wait until that steam id connects to a quee, so they don't even need to watch the stream. This is why certain content creators will be sniped, sometimes 10-20 times in a row.
Again I do not encourage this and want something done to stop this, I only poste this to explain in detail why stream snipng in DBD is so bad
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So.. there is an issue of killer slugging survivors for up to 4 minutes. The issue isn't the bleed out itself but rather killers using this very toxic style of gameplay. So instead of punishing or at least discouraging this style you simply give survivors the option to give the killer an auto win so they don't have to be bored and miserable, further rewarding killers.
This is such a perfect behaviour band-aid fix.
Instead of... you know punishing killers for doing this. Like they lose 5% of the total points per every 25% of each individual survivors bleed out timer. So if 4 survivors bleed out they would lose 80% of their total points. This would also encourage killers to hook survivors more often which is the objective of the killer.
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Would be pretty nice for those stuns.
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The shape is the best killer in DBD, no other killer come close.
The shape comes from a time period where the devs prioritised fun and uniqueness over strength. His base power is intense, starting off small and building up his evil within. Rewarding the killer for being smart on how he uses his limited tier 3 unlike ghostface which relies and poorly designed recognition system and a power that punishes the survivor for revealing him, because why reward survivors for playing well, we need ghostface to be strong, so lets give always the survivor's location. Due to his non existent terror radius the shape is one of the few truly horror themed killers in DBD, as most are more intense, but not really scary.
At the time when the shape was created no other killer was comparable, now ghostface functions as just a stronger version of the shape, with non of the flare the shape came with. Lets talk about addons. The addons on the shape were perfect. scratch mirror Myers, infinite tier 3, tuff of hair/ tombstone ect. Some addons simply made him stronger but these made him so unique that it was always exciting to see what you are going against. Now days due to people taking this game so seriously and becoming overly competitive all you ever see are stalk speed increasing addons and maybe infinite tier 3, but almost never anything else. Can the shape compete at high MMR? No, but who cares because he is so much fun to play and verse. I do not want the devs to make his power stronger and remove what made him interesting in the first place, just so he can become another uninteresting strong killer.
So many killers are becoming simple tweaks on existing powers, (sadoko) or either have...
strong anti loop but no map preasure (The Artist)
Strong map pressure, but no anti loop. (sadoko)
these killers are very uninspired as they focus more on how strong the power is, rather then how unique and interesting it is.
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Would you apply this system if the killer is dominating a match. If the killer has x amount of downs before a single gen is done will killers be unable to put survivors into the dying state for 3 minutes?
What would stop killers from abusing this by putting survivors into the dying state for 5 minutes to get the 3 minute reward.
This system punishes players for playing the game well... so I suppose the optimal way is for survivors to play poorly.
If survivors cannot do generators for 3 minutes what are they doing during that time? Hiding I guess.
So at high rank DBD, gen speeds are super important. Have you ever played against a high MMR killer with an optimal build with proper skill. This would tip the very thin balance at high MMR severely in the advantage of killers.
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@BasementDweller said:
So a boon that not only shows the killers aura but also gives a 50% gen bonus, and it also is map wide?
Yeah this is broken even if it has the 60 second cooldown. All 4 survivors could run this perk, and each person can boon a totem after one is cleansed.
I get the whole 'punish' killers who camp and tunnel but majority of these types of suggestions also punish those who don't.
For example; if your facing a killer with no map mobility even if they don't camp they get punished due to the aura and 50%. Survivors could just avoid the place where the boon is located, so the killer is either forced to waste time looking for the totem or have survivors be able to do gens 50% faster.
This boon will just kill killer diversity and encourage killers to play more blight and nurse. Which a majority of the playerbase don't want.
You miss understand "lit its aura is revealed to the killer indefinitely." Meaning the aura of the boon is revealed to the killer once it is lit. This makes it extremely easy for the killer to remove it.
It only activates after the first 30 seconds. Lets say a hook timer is 60 seconds, 30 seconds is half the timer. Before you would get any value. Then once that survivor is unhooked the effect is removed until another survivor is hooked repeating the process.
In theory the only time this perk will have any significant value for survivors is if the killer is remaining on one side of the map and camping/tunnelling which therefore would be working.
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Not a great perk idea, but good intentions. I think fixing camping/ tunnelling by changing game design is bad idea. New perks to tackle this issue is a far better solution.
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@FlameLickVA said:
They are strategies, despite not being engaging and or fun for survivors/both parties.
And, they are punished via:
- less BP and pip chance for camping.
- Perks, BT and DS being the big examples.
- Less pressure from both in some cases. (Camping = less chance for a 3-4k, potentially not even a 2k. Tunneling = a massive 5 second stun, and no gen pressure if failed, also less category BP and pip chance if failed which is HUGE).
That is exactly why killers need to be punished more for doing this. "They are strategies, despite not being engaging and or fun for survivors/both parties."
Yes, technically there are ways to deal with this. But it is neither fun, nor engaging. There are plenty of things that can be described as (not fun), rushing gens may not be fun, but survivors are still engaging with with the gameplay. Doing their objective still allows for the killer to interact with players and still have a match, even if its not "fun." However camping and tunnelling does not allow for this. Survivors can do generators and if done properly 3 survivors can escape. However even if this is the case, one player is mad because he was denied a match and the others are mad because they don't get engage with the killer at all.
And its worse because of the assumption that you get less kills and points. I have done this before, and I would say it depends. For example against a 4man swf where you only start doing this halfway into a match, yes you are likely to only get 1 kill. However camping at 5 generators against a team of solo Q. Due to the inability to communicate, and the time wasted that each player goes to the hook confused as to why nobody has unhooked their teammate, you are actually quite likely go to get 3-4k. I suggest you play leatherface, with corupt, deadlock ruin and undying, or other possible anti gen perks (thrilling tremors) and use a camp and tunnel strategy, but don't facecamp. I think you will be surprised by how effective it is.
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So let me explain what would happen if you did this.
First of all the 4 man squads would still play in a 4man. Nothing will change. 1 because they are a group of friends who prioritize fun over farming BP, or 2 or actively trying to frustrate the killer, making BP incentive pointless.
As for duo and and 3 people its the same principle, fact most people with friends care very little of BP and would rather play with their friends then deal with solo Q teammates.
As for your suggestion for solo Q, do you ,now what this would result in? Farming. Everybody who is a solo survivor will farm, as its the fastest and easiest way to earn blood points, so I hope you enjoy being farmed every match.
Also here is my question, lets say this was implemented, your idea is based off the idea that swf is too strong. So would you agree to apply this to killer as well? Lets say just to make it easy any time anyone plays Nurse, spirit or Blight, they get half blood points. Anyone who plays say trapper, clown and Myers gets double. Would you be ok with that?
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I would go a step further. Make it something easy for the killer to grab, say passing by, however survivors have the ability to to disable it by searching for a glyph, and then taking that glyph to a specific location to destroy it for say 60 seconds. That way if the killer finds it, great they get a small power boost, but survivors will have to waste time if they wish to disable it.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864446#Comment_2864446
I don't understand, you say "Because pressing m1 on gens is the only thing a survivor can do" and then list a ton of things that you yourself do besides gen tunnelling right after.
Also I was under the impression that survivors liked hook rushing and despised getting slugged. Why is being left to bleed on the ground better than just getting hooked right away? I suppose there's unbreakable but still.
A tone of things?
Ok the list of things a survivor can do is...
Dull totems, which has little impact on an actual match making them wasted time.
Hex totems, maybe. if the killer chooses to use them. However with no way of knowing it they even have one which means you may be looking for something that may end up not even existing.
And that's it. Yeah wow so many objectives. Funny thing is I would love to make it so breaking dull totems offers a reward too survivors so there would be a reason too. For example breaking dull totems allow survivors to block a hook for 60 seconds or maybe breaking a dull totem protects the survivor from missing skill checks. Something to give an actual reason to bother, however currently there is not. This mainly due to killers complaining anything survivors is get is unfair.
Obviously hook tunnelling was sarcastic. complaining about people doing the objective and paying the game is just... not smart.
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Its more how its used. NOED is mainly used to secure 1 kill at the end of the game. You get one down and camp it. When that happens, yes I would say NOED is boring. I think I an end game build with NOED can be really fun, but I think I have only ever gone against a killer using that strategy once or twice. Also it depends on how often you go against it. A blight with corupt, tinker, undying, ruin is really intense and puts a lot of pressure on the survivor. But after the 10th Blight in a row runs that same build, that combination becomes predictable and therefore boring.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2863336#Comment_2863336
Why are you acting like pressing m1 on gens are the only things a survivor can do? Maybe people should stop with the gen tunneling once and for all.
Because it is? Dull totems are optional and offer little reward and with no way of knowing how many totems are on the map (not counting small game) its a massive waste of time? Imagine telling people in 2016 that by 2022 killers don't want survivors doing their objective. I know that hex totems exist, but 1 you are assuming that a killer has to be running both corupt and a hex totem to justify how corupt works and 2 this does not change my point at all. Do you really think, if I see a hex totem I ignore it? Of course not While I focus on hiding if I see a hex totem I cleanse it, there is simply no need to run as it only serves give away your position.
also gen tunnelling? Are you serious? You don't even want a match. I promise you I will stop gen tunnelling if you agree to stop hook rushing. Its really annoying when I'm trying to escape and the killer keeps hook rushing, instead of standing there and letting me get my free win.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/312917/corrupt-intervention-is-boring
Whenever a survivor says "X is boring" they actually mean "X is strong and stops me from getting the easy win I think I'm entitled to".
The best counter to corupt is to go to the basement and wait it out. Blocking 3 generators for 3 minutes, all on one side of the map allows for the killer to have easy map control at the start. Doing generators is not smart as the distance the killer has to cover is considerably less then what it should be. It is is simply not smart to do generators while corupt is up. Lets say most survivors realised this and adopt this strategy. Does that sound like a fun game? Every match is simply the first 3 minutes of nothing happening? Maybe a killer can find a survivor but with no idea where they spawned it is simply unlikely. I do not think this sounds fun? So no, the original post does not have an issue with its strength, but with how boring it is to against.
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@Smeagolthevile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857487#Comment_2857487
Thank you for getting my point.
I'd happily take a corrupt that had some way to be interacted with, like the gens just dont 'unblock at a 3 min mark, but you had to activly cleanse them' or some other kind of mechanic that adds a new dimension to the game.
and Yes, I do understand that it doesnt 'make the game boring' because you can go to where the killer is, but that is not a smart play, at all, unless you specifically specialize as a survivor who loops the killer and tries to get their attention. Yeah you can totem hunt but like... this is the same forum where I see killers flipping out at survivors cleaning their hexes early... so there is no winning with that line of thoguht.
I would like to see a corupt rework that is a stronger by default but allows for survivors to have some control over the perk. For example it lasts for 5 minutes however survivors can still repair but at a 50% repair speed. Or possibly by breaking a dull totem can then repair through the corupt. Something to give the survivors the ability to affect the direction of the game that allows for interesting strategies and choices instead of just waiting it out.
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I don't think DBD is either killer sided or survivor sided. The issue is the massive swings in power.
The issue is at the highest skill level possible, the game is killer sided. Which is lets say is a highly skilled nurse with meta perks and addons. However the majority of killers cannot reach this level of strength (trapper). A nurse at this level should in theory win 99% of matches. After that is a 4 man swf with meta perks. In theory they should win 99% of matches as the communication and strategy is simply too much in their favour. After this is would be non meta survivors, then non meta killers and then finally 4 solo Q survivors.
The point is the strength difference between this categories is so vast the game is unplayable. Not playing in SWF is such a major disadvantage that plenty of survivors won't play without their friends. On the flip side a killer can go against 4 solo Q survivors which they easily beat. they then decide they don't need to run a meta build only for the next game to go against 4man swf.
Even worse is the optimal way to play DBD is simply unfun. The best strategy for killer is to camp/tunnel and slug. None of which is fun, but its highly effective. Similar gen rushing for survivors denies a match from even happening. What is the point in playing DBD as survivor if you don't even allow for match to happen, you are simply holding M1 at a gen for a few minutes, but it is highly effective.
I honestly don't have a solution to fix any of this, I can only recommend you don't take the game too seriously and try to put more of focus on fun instead of winning. However I can say DBD is not killer sided or survivor sided.
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For the killers stupidly posting "but my gen speed" please read the post.
He is not criticising the strength of the perk. The issue is not that a strong slow down perk exists he is fine with that. The issue is that corupt intervention is simply an uninteresting perk. You throw it on and the game is heavily slowed for 3 minutes. The issue is not the extra time but rather that there is no input, or skill for either side. It is one of the strongest perks killer's have and its entirely passive, that's the issue. Even Hex Ruin minimum involves survivors, potentially searching do disable the perk, and killers choosing when to go to gens n order to get real value. There is a way to demonstrate a person's skill, however corupt does not allow for this as it is simply extremely strong for so little input.
The optimal way to beat corupt is for survivors to go hide and wait it out. Fun 3 minutes of sitting in lockers, what fun matches. In short yes it is a very boring perk, and the original post is completely correct.
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Ok so breaking down your points
-This isn't Happening requires you injured for a small increase in great skill check zones.
Because back when this perk was crated great skill checks granted I believe it was 3% and then lowered to 2% for most of DBD's lifespan before being lowered too 1%. Hitting great skill checks could be challenging for new players and therefore the perk was a way too ease players into improving their skill check timing as there was an actual reason to do so. The perk made sense and was fine for new players. However when killer's started complaining about gen speeds, the developers lowered the progress of great skill checks to 1%, making great skill checks usless (I know extra points but i'm talking about the actual match) creating a meaningless perk that was never touched.
-Territorial Imperative Must be 32 meters from the basement, 3 second reveal effect. Large cooldown.
The perk was designed too let killers know that a survivor was entering the basement. The reason for the large cooldown, 32 meter requirement ect is so that killers would not use the perk to simply camp and tunnel the basement. Originally this strategy was discouraged by the developers however as more and more killers started using this playstyle anyway they abandoned this stance, but you still sometimes find traces of it left behind.
-No one Left Behind The exit gates have to be OPENED, not powered, to get any effect. Time limited by EGC.
Another perk created in a different time and in all honestly I find the EGG requirement far more exciting and wish more perks were like this.
-Technician A perk specially for players learning the game. Punishes missed skill checks even more.
I have no words for technician, a perk designed for new players, but punishes them for it. Awful design.
-Monstrous Shrine Must be in Basement. The effects are so minor we are talking 3-4 seconds difference in sacrifice time.
3-4 seconds is actually quite a bit. When we are talking about approximately 60 seconds per hook state. A perk that lowers all hooks like that would be quite OP, especially with a camping strategy.
Another way to change the meta is to buff perks that are simply outclassed by others. I am not asking for new op meta breaking perks, just something to make them more appealing.
Ok so now we are talking about changing the meta. A lot of people talk about the meta of DBD, but don't really understand it. The question is why are certain perks so strong? Well first of is killers. Now that survivors have been nerfed into the ground, killers really only have one weakness, the time limit. The time limit is the only thing that survivors really have in their favour and killers know this, which is why the killer meta is all about slowing down generators. You could buff whatever perk you wanted on killer, and the optimal build will still be a ruin, undying, corupt, pop build. Because these perks massively slow down generates with little skill needed by killers. As for survivors, generator speeds are not really an issue, so instead they need perks to block camping and tunnelling due to how effective it is. Which is why BT/DS exist. You could remove the requirement on every survivor perk you listed, and BT/DS would still be a borderline mandatory perk to run. Well then you may say, well the nerf these perks. Watch as camping and tunelling sky rocket. The issue is game design not perks
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Remove SBMM: Absolutely
add in a competitive/casual mode:
I promise you if they did, everybody would just play comp. Killers sweat just as hard as survivors, there are simply more survivors then killers.
Disable SWF and super strong perks in competitive like COH, dead hard, Noed, etc. You might say this will split the playerbase, but it is better than losing all your players, and you probably would have more in the long-run on each side regardless from doing this even if it's cut in half temporarily.
Nothing will kill DBD faster then removing SWF. The vest majority of survivors are SWF. If you win regularly at all as killer you are beating at least 2 if not 3 swf at a time regularly. When killers say they hate swf what they really mean is they just want to verse solo Q brainless survivors, that any killer with more then 20 hours should easly beat. They don't want a challenge, despite themselves being experienced. Regardless if you remove SWF, There will not be enough survivors for killers.
Get creative with new killers, no more boring frankenstein monster design/powers where you just copy + paste 2 weaker versions of old killers together (looking at u sadako). Need a killer who can mind control survivors, summon monsters, etc. Too many killers just feel the same as others, and it is boring:
Unfortunately the DBD community likes things to be predictable. So many killers need an ability for the chase, for map pressure ect, instead of being able to create original killers they are limited on what they can design, to meet the expectation of the players. Essentially the dbd community believes the strength of the killer is more important then the actual design of killer.
Perk point system to balance perks, increase slots to 8 for both sides and make each perk cost between 1-4 points based on strength. This is obvious considering how unbalanced perks in DBD currently are.
Congratulations, you just killed killer. Ok applying your logic, I a survivor will run, dead hard, 4 points, That's it. Killers will still be unhappy with that. Now I a killer, corupt intervention, 4 points, Hex Ruin 3 points, and your basically capped, undying would be at least 2 points if not 3, pop would be 3 points, Do you see the issue?
Overall the majority of your ideas would kill this game overnight
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If you can't dodge one hatchet, then you need to practice more. Iri head in its current state is a complete joke of an addon and really hurts the Huntress more. Now you can say "but at close distance its unavoidable, well honestly you need to practice looping some more as you should rarely be in a situation like that to begin with. Old ir head where you could hold up to 3, maybe hat was a little OP, but since it was capped at 1, if you are struggling to beat that you are the issue.