I_CAME
I_CAME
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The dodging would definitely be a massive issue. Why would people NOT dodge until they get a full meta squad? The bad teams would be even worse and the good ones would be a nightmare. As killer you would see A LOT more strong teams simply due to sweaty players dodging until they get what they want. If we're going to go down this road then there needs to be some sort of limit on how many lobbies you can dodge.
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Are we playing the same map? I have destroyed multiple killers on this map. It's not anywhere near as bad as you're saying.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533803#Comment_3533803
What about the huge amount of time I wasted for two flamethrowers?
and he simply entered a tunnel, followed steps, and began to chase
yea no one ever talks about this at all. the turrets hurt the survivors more than help them due to how many times you have to set them up for minimal reward.
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I can't remember the last time I had a skull merchant match last more than 5-10 minutes. At least one person immediately gives up in nearly every SM game I get. Then others usually follow. Worst case is the SM gets upset and bleeds everyone out.
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I personally don't care if the killer does this to me. I just alt tab out and do something else while I wait. I think a lot of killer mains have this mental image of survivors sitting at their desk with furrowed eyebrows and angrily pounding their fists on the keyboard. Maybe some people are like this but it doesn't apply to me personally. I'm completely chill during the whole thing.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533314#Comment_3533314
Pretty easy fix actually, just make it so when you get into a game, you cant back out. That way killers cant lobby shop, and back fills cant happen either
I'd be all for this but I don't think they'd ever do it due to how many killer's would lose their minds over not being able to shop for easy lobbies. A lot of killers have this mentality of wanting to win every game but never wanting to play against anyone who can beat them. Either way they need to do SOMETHING about the matchmaking. Both the community and prolific content creators have called it out as being far worse in recent months. It's definitely something I have noticed personally. If it's going to be this loose then they should just delete MMR system entirely. What's the point when it produces so many unfair matches?
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I'm getting close to 20 games with Xeno. I have no idea how anyone can say with a straight face that the turrets are fine. They aren't even a roadblock. I feel like a bulldozer running over a traffic cone when I see one. The only time I ever get knocked out of my power is when I have poor awareness. Beyond that they just aren't threatening at all. If anything they hurt the survivors due to all the time they spend hauling them around. Now that I have a better perspective on this I am 100% convinced that people just like being OP. It's fun to play as Xeno for sure. It's not fun to play against him at all.
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@Majin151 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TGBGSBYWDLIB/giphy-288-29.gif
Legit xeno is a killer that is a menace at low to lower mid mmr and can get shut down if you know what to do which imo puts them at high b low a
And all the survivors who say the turrets are basically useless admit that they don't know what to do against the xeno yet
Nah. They're just not strong enough. Just throw on Star Map + Emergency Helmet and turrets don't matter anymore.
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The turrets are completely useless and hurt the survivors more than anything else. You either nerf the power directly or you make the turrets less terrible. A good Xeno will bring addons specifically for turrets and have no trouble plowing through them regardless of how you place them. You can double up on turrets but it takes FOREVER to even get them into that position. Even if you do there's no guarantee that you even get use out of them. My own experience playing him is that they are a mild inconvenience at best. In over a dozen games I would not attribute a single loss to well placed turrets. They simply don't matter at all.
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@Xendritch said:
I have had this thought since Xeno released reading the complaints that people really aren't used to fearing the killer anymore.
It very much feels like new killers come out and the first thought is "how do I loop them for 5 gens and put them in the montage" which is a bit depressing.
Xeno breaks this trend by returning this game to it's horror roots. This isn't a killer you can loop for 5 gens this is a killer you defeat by creating a detection and decoy system. Hear the beeping run like hell and pray the turret bought you enough time to get away.
For the first time maybe ever it's a killer where playing slow and immersive IS the correct choice. Playing against Xeno created a type of tension I haven't felt since maybe 2017 when Cannibal first released and it was another killer that could one shot you. It felt like I was playing a horror game again where when the killer was coming my way it wasn't "meh w/e I'll just loop them for a couple gens" it was "oh ######### time to get out of here and hope they don't find me" which I never realized how much I missed that from DBD.
This chapter is the best thing that could have happened to this game and I hope we get more chapters like it.
I don't care about being a part of some guy's weird power fantasy. I want a balanced PVP game with fair counterplay on both sides. If Xeno is going to be as oppressive as he is in chase then buff the turrets. Right now they are useless and only slow survivors down. The turrets do literally nothing if you bring the right addons and have a basic level of awareness. I have played over a dozen games as Xeno and probably 30 against him so I know from experience.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532324#Comment_3532324
Compare with any other killer and you realise none of these killers have a counter tool to disable that killers power entirely.
The Tail Attack is intended to be unforgiving, so that survivors are encouraged to make use of Turrets.
If the Tail Attack could be dodged conventionally by any skilled looper with a constantly clicking flashlight, there would be no need for Turrets.
Xendritch said it well here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532318#Comment_3532318
I just want the turrets to not be completely useless. Every Xeno just uses the same addons and turns the turrets into a non factor. Turrets don't do anything against a good Xeno. The fact that they take so long to set up makes them a detriment to survivors. I actually played a dozen Xeno games last night and I was NEVER at any point seriously threatened by the turrets. They were a slight inconvenience at worst. If you have any amount of situational awareness then they will never be a problem for you. They are definitely underpowered when you consider how oppressive Xeno is in chase.
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Give up immediately. You don't get any meaningful amount of points for staying in the game. It's just a waste of time.
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The thing is you can put Xeno back to where he was in the PTB and he'd still be strong. Some of the buffs he received were flat out unnecessary. From Behavior's standpoint it was probably done because they were afraid they'd end up with another singularity where the killer has an extremely low kill rate. That hasn't been the case at all and it actually seems like they went a bit too far. Literally no one is saying he should be nerfed to the point where he is useless. Wesker is strong but I never complain about him other than the fact that he is overplayed. That's because Wesker has fair counterplay. I will stand by my opinion that the tail is too strong and needs some minor changes.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530868#Comment_3530868
Don't insult me so freely. Argue against me and prove your point.
They have no argument. They know it's OP which is why all they can muster is "lol git gud!". This is the go to argument people use to defend anything that is OP. I am eagerly awaiting the tears when they give the tail a reasonable nerf that is fair for both sides. People have put together extremely reasonable arguments for why the tail is problematic and some killer mains just don't want to hear it.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530674#Comment_3530674
3 seconds is loads for an attack cooldown.
For reference, Demo's Shred is 2.25 seconds and has a far bigger hitbox.
Huntress Hatchets are 2 seconds and have much greater range.
Nemesis' Tentacle is 2.2 seconds and has a charge time of 0.35 seconds, and only has to be aimed in one dimension.
Meanwhile Tail Attack has a narrower hitbox than Hatchets which are beach balls, is harder to aim than Tentacle or Shred, and has a longer cooldown than any other special attack in the game.
Why are you all refusing to use Turrets?
I feel like people are deliberately ignoring the issue. The cooldown of the attack itself does not matter. It's the fact that you lose almost no distance due to how fast Xeno moves. They effectively almost doubled his speed from where it was in the PTB. They overbuffed him for no real reason. They just need to go back to the PTB version and it will be fine. He will still be strong but will actually punish bad players more. There's also the bug where he isn't slowing down after a successful attack in some cases.
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Most of the complaints are completely fair. What most people want is for them to go back to the PTB version where Xeno was punished more for missing his tail attack. They essentially made him nearly twice as fast in live as he was on the PTB. You can't really gain much of any distance even if the killer screws up. There's also apparently a bug where he doesn't get slowed after a successful tail attack.
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I hope you guy stick with this change. It will make lobbies faster due to less dodging and will reduce high prestige players being targeted.
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@appleas said:
Play during Survivor bonus incentives?
Some people have jobs and/or school. This isn't an option for everyone. Survivors getting significantly less bloodpoints than the killer is something that most people agree on. It's something Behavior should definitely do something about.
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@GaunterODimmDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529787#Comment_3529787
It's like death slinger quickscoping in that sense except this dumb killer suffers zero repercussion for missing.
Which is exactly why Xeno's tail is going to get a deserved nerf eventually. Killer mains can fight against it by saying "lol it's not that strong git gud bro!" but they know it will happen.
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His day is coming. I haven't lost faith and nothing is going to break my spirit. I am hopeful that Momo reaches 3000 wins in a row so we can get even more evidence of how absurd this killer actually is. Can you imagine the community in literally any other competitive game being alright with someone winning 1500 games in a row? That kind of win streak is indicative of MAJOR problems with the game.
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@UndeddJester said:
I think the only real issue people are having with the tail strike is there isn't much you can do other than spin juke if there isn't a turret nearby. If we compare the Xeno to Nemesis:
Nemesis T1/T2 Tentacle
- Range: 5 m
- Movement: 3.8 m/s
- Charge Time: 0.35s
- Hit Time: 0.333s
- Attack CD: 2.5s
- Damage: Must be infected already
Nemesis T3 Tentacle
- Range: 6m
- Movement: 4 m/s
- All other stats same
Xeno Tail
- Range: 4.8m
- Movement: 4.6 m/s
- Charge Time: 0.2s
- Hit Time: 0.4s
- Attack CD: 3s
- Damage: Immediate, but prevented by turrets.
I think people are having a hard time figuring it out because the Xeno tail stab is fast to charge (0.2s is not very much reaction time, and can easily react to pallets/windows), it doesn't slow the Xeno at all (no need to time anything, just pull up when you're in range), has a long lingering hit box (can obviously drag to extend the hitbox laterally), and ofc it wounds immediately.
I think after getting used to using turrets, Survivors will be better at dealing with it, but without a turret nearby, it does kinda feel like you're screwed and have no options.
At least with Nemmy you can greed a pallet and bait his Tentacle. Doing so slows him down, and if you're not infected, then no worries really., you can throw a pallet and run to make distance even off the hit... but vs. The Xeno, if you throw the pallet, your animation takes too long vs. its charge, so Xeno can react immediately to the animation, and you get stabbed over the pallet. If you don't throw it and Xeno pulls up her tail, the Xeno doesn't slow down at all, so you gain nothing anyway... so its a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. Your only hope is the Xeno misses, and you get more distance on her, or she mind games herself and walks in range of tbe pallet...
Not convinced its OP yet, but have to be mindful of it...
It's a matter of opinion I suppose. I personally believe it's OP when you consider the kit this killer has. I don't expect killer mains to admit it's too strong considering nobody in this game regardless of which side they play ever admits something they have is OP.
- Extremely good map mobility
- Doesn't have to get multiple hits like Nemesis
- Built in slowdown with survivors having to interact with flamethrowers. These can be made trivial by a good Xeno.
I don't feel like there being SOME actual consequence to missing your special attack is unreasonable at all. Considering how strong this killer is overall. I expect they will eventually tone down his tail attack slightly. The kill rates Behavior uses will speak for themselves regardless of what I personally believe. He already has one of the highest kill rates based on third party data. This wasn't the case for singularity at all. I can't imagine how high it will go once people learn the finer points of playing this killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528295#Comment_3528295
What?!?!? Have you played the killer? It's a 2 or 3 second cooldown on a missed attack.
Compared to 4.25 on a killer like Deathslinger. Xeno's power is objectively far stronger since it is easier to use and can down you across pallets. You also do not lose anywhere near as much distance.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/389535/running-the-xenomorph
I played a good amount so far. From what I've seen survivors do is bait out the tail at pallets similarly to pyramid and the drop the pallet when the xenomorph is in Cooldown. Otherwise I can't say....
Crawler mode is very strong, therefore the turrets are even a thing.
The cooldown for a missed attack is not anywhere near punishing enough. You can be extremely bad and still get another swipe immediately. Makes the skill ceiling ridiculously low.
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As a solo player I think it was so fun being unhooked by a survivor without BT and then getting instantly downed again. This is just what DBD needs more of IMO.
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@Krazzik said:
I hope this is an intentional change as Windows is by far the most used survivor perk in the game. It isn't only used by newer players or even only solo players, it's a strong perk in any situation.
A lot of people saying the perk isn't even that strong but clearly it is or it wouldn't be so widely used. Just because it isn't a perk that makes you faster or lets you do gens quicker, doesn't mean it's not a great perk.
Yes it wont fix awful maps but until they finally get around to doing that, if they ever will, it'll at least make it less braindead to chain vaults and pallets.
It's widely used because it's useful to the large majority of players. The dreaded demon SWF that people claim to play against every match can literally call out where pallets have been dropped in seconds. Solo players don't have a clue about any of this. This is nothing but a nerf to solo queue and will do very little harm to good SWFs.
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Different case. Perk is new and is selling DLC for them. I guarantee you it will get nerfed once the DLC sales decline significantly.
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@Annso_x said:
Seems to just be a description bug (thankfully)
Could be planned for the midchapter and they added it too early.
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It's weird to nerf a perk that primarily helps solo players but isn't anywhere near as useful for SWFs. It's like the circle nerf where it could still be used for incredibly fast resets for an organized team. Yet became useless for solos.
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The amount of skillchecks bots miss is ridiculous. I've actually lost multiple games because they miss so many. No real player misses that many unless they just installed the game.
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Survivors already get screwed on bloodpoints compared to killers. I know from my own personal experience playing both roles. I don't blame anyone for tryharding to escape when it's so hard to come by bloodpoints due to killers trying to speedrun the 4K.
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Which game are you playing that has a ten minute queue? Mine are always fast regardless of role.
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The bots are terrible and are far worse on average than solo queue teammates. They just run around aimlessly and don't do anything 90% of the time. They can't even hit skill checks properly. They usually just keep unhooking you in lost cause games that you're trying to get out of. I'd rather take my chances with my solo queue teammates. I think it'd be fine if they lowered the maximum penalty to a few hours but they shouldn't completely remove them.
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@Caiman said:
Playing killer is a lot of time and investment for not much reward.
Low reward? Based on what? You have much higher win potential than an average survivor player simply due to not having bad teammates to drag you down. My killer win rate is over 80% despite me being a survivor main who isn't even amazing at killer. There's a reason why killers achieve much higher win streaks than survivors. You also get significantly more in game rewards. It sounds like killer just isn't fun for you personally.
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They definitely went a bit too far with this rework. The new version is an easy 4K for me whenever I play killer.
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End Lobby Dodging 2023.
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It is also related to your MMR. My brother is the type who plays games and always lets the survivors go at the end so he never raises his MMR. His bonus is almost always on killer regardless of the time. Right now he is 100% killer. At the exact same time I have 100% survivor. Your MMR definitely matters.
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@Yoshirama said:
Yeah, a killer can tunnel someone and still make a lot of BP
You can outrun the killer for 5 gens and barely make any BP
And at least in my region, survivor BP incentives are always 50% in the morning, the rest is 100% for killers
Not just that. Killers can flat out lose and still get 30k base bloodpoints before any bonuses. Survivors lose and they get barely anything. I get around 70-100k per match when I play killer. This is regardless of whether I win or lose. This number is far higher than what I get on survivor. Speaking in terms of averages of course.
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I honestly hated hook grabs. There were way too many situations where the killer was being demolished and then snowballed because of one hook grab. It was a really cheesy way to turn a game around and i'm glad it's gone. Especially against solo players who can't communicate that the killer is camping. The real question is do we even need a full anti camp system now that hook grabs are gone? Hook grabs being removed solved most of my issues with facecamping. It's a very risky strategy now if the survivors are healthy since they will just run in and trade at the last second.
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Why even bother Dcing against a bot that INSTANTLY kills you? Am I missing something here? I get these bots too but i'm not sure what dcing is supposed to do in this scenario.
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I want to see it just so I can laugh when it's nowhere near as low as people think it is.
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I would delete the lobby and have players load directly into the match. No more shopping for easy lobbies. It'd be a lot easier for people to get adjusted to their TRUE MMR if this simple change was put into the game. I complain about a lot of things in this game but I firmly believe that bad matchmaking is the no.1 cause for most issues the game has.
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Dodging breaks the matchmaking. That's plenty of reason to hide prestige. I don't understand why it's fair for you to dodge the game but you don't see an issue with bullying less experienced survivors. This is exactly what you're trying to do. You sound like you want to win every game but don't actually want to play against anyone who can beat you. There's also the issue that you're potentially causing a very inexperienced killer to load into the lobby you dodged. All of this seems very selfish and is a good reason for why prestige SHOULD be hidden. Survivors don't get to see the killer's prestige so why should the killer get to? It makes no sense at all.
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100% agree. Especially since we have confirmation that dodging hurts the matchmaking. There's no reason for the lobby to exist anymore.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522807#Comment_3522807
I´m not sure the devs can identify a rage quit suicide from a normal kill. So with that in mind, all those rage quits must look like legit kills on the devs stats. Which means that if survivors were playing normal, the kill rates would be much lower.
On the why, it totally beats me. There is currently no annoying or OP killer combo that would even remotely justify so many people being mad. Or at least i don´t see many nerf threads for killer perks. So maybe its boredom. Or people want to lower their mmr rating. Totally beats me.
The issue with this is that DBD games snowball hard. If someone rage quits after going down 45 seconds into the match then the killer was likely going to win regardless. If a guy goes down that fast then how likely is it that he can last for 4-5 gens if the killer decides to tunnel? In my experience the first chase is always the biggest indicator of how a match is going to go. Short first chase = killer wins. Long first chase = survivors win unless they do something dumb like three gen themselves.
A lot of why people suicide on the hook probably has to do with them having a feeling of hopelessness. People probably assume that the game is over for them when they get downed early. Especially considering how common tunneling is nowadays. Solo players do not care about their teammates so they aren't going to stick around because it's the moral thing to do.
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@lifestylee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523362#Comment_3523362
I think 3 gen is a fair/legit strategy just too opressive on killers like skill merchant, (maybe knight) but fine for pretty much every other killer.
It varies depending on the map. Some three gens are oppressive to the point where the game should just end if you three gen yourself since the large majority of teams have zero chance of breaking them. This is getting worse as they shrink the maps. I had a three gen killer on the new cowshed and have no idea how I could have possibly broken it. I've seen others get into the same situation. If maps are going to continue getting smaller then three gen should get some sort of nerf since small maps make it far too powerful. Killers will quickly pick up on this and start to abuse it if you do nothing.
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@KaTo1337 said:
The funny part is: I think we earn TOO MANY Bloodpoints lol.
We have so many bloodpoints together with a hugely reduced grind so that chests for example are completely ignorable. A year ago I was thrilled when I received a purple Medkit out of a chest, nowadays I do not care because I have so many items on my main character that chests dont matter at all.
From Killers PoV this new grind makes survivors stick on gens because chests are not worth the time anymore and Totems are not worth the time too because Killers dont use Hex-Builds a lot anymore.
I don't think there needs to be a massive increase. There just needs to be a buff to survivor bloodpoints to bring the average more in line with what killers receive. Survivors are investing the same amount of time and should be rewarded appropriately. Gaining points as as a survivor is significantly harder than it is for killer. You get a whopping 1250 for doing an 80 second gen. You get tunneled and you receive almost nothing even if you somehow manage to escape. There's also the fact that you are essentially competing with other players to earn points. The larger issue is there are far more things that can go wrong for a survivor than there are for killers. Killers don't have their entire game sabotaged because one guy decided to make an early exit on the hook. Killers score well even when they lose. Not at all the case for survivors. There are just too many games where survivors load up and the game is immediately over. It doesn't make for a good experience. Especially not when you bring offerings.
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Skull Merchant is going to cause three gen as a strategy to be completely deleted from the game. I feel like they're going to do something crazy like survivors get 5% repair speed for every minute the last gen isn't repaired. Behavior tends to favor nuclear options so I really do think something like this is likely.
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Nurse and Spirit aren't even in the top ten most picked killers according to the available data. I know I personally don't see them very often. I DO get a ridiculous amount of Blights and Weskers. Those two are played to to the point where it's just obnoxious. Oh joy another lethal pursuer Blight sprinting across the map and downing my solo queue teammate 20 seconds into the match. I'm sure this is going to be a fun game.
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@Emeal said:
If getting 1.5 prestige isnt a reward good enough for you for playing 10 to 15 games, Could you please explain what you would find to be a good enough reward for playing 10 to 15 games for you?
How many hours over three months is fair do you think?
A casual player definitely is not getting anywhere close to this many bloodpoints per game. As I recall it's roughly 1 million BPs to prestige. You'd need to get 100k bps per match on average to get 1.5 prestige levels in that many games. A killer might get 30-35k per match on average. A casual survivor probably 15-30k with far more variation. Probably on the lower end of that considering how many games snowball in the killer's favor due to various reasons. That's without incentives and offerings obviously. Now if you are a veteran player who has a huge stockpile of cakes and ONLY plays when the incentive is up then maybe it's not a problem. I just seriously doubt new players are pulling 100k per match.