I_CAME
I_CAME
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I am 81 games into a 500 game solo queue experiment ATM. I have observed my teammates teabagging at the gate on a grand total of three occasions. Most people just leave. This lines up with my experience playing killer as well. Survivor toxicity in this game is MASSIVELY overblown. People cherrypick a few bad experiences and pretend like they're the norm. Killers in my experience are far more toxic than survivors are these days.
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@GannTM said:
From what I remember, most pallets on that map were extremely unsafe.
They are. The map is loaded with unsafe pallets. Playing on it again reminded me of how bad most of them are.
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Most people are not going to bother with it. The large majority of people will just go back to sprint burst and lithe. Killers got what they wanted. Take the W and stop trying to convince people it's still good.
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I'd rather play against the old skull merchant than get more hag games. Hag is by far the most horrible killer to play against in the entire game. Every hag game is exactly the same and it never gets anymore enjoyable. I've been playing a lot of scroll wheel hag lately and the amount of DCs I get is INSANE. Twins should be obvious since every game involves an excessive amount of slugging. Legion is hated because mend simulator isn't fun. Although this really depends on the player. Legion games were especially bad when the rework first went live. This was because every legion was obsessed with trying to get a down with their power. You just had to mend constantly since they would never chase normally. The games are still unfun but they are much more tolerable than they were.
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I've actually been tracking this along with a variety of other things over the past few weeks. In 64 solo queue games I have received the hatch twice and both times it was the same killer. Most killers I run into just slug for the 4K. The thought of giving hatch doesn't even compute with most players these days.
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Why do you get to use a high tier killer with meta perks but the game is suddenly unfair when you go up against a strong survivor team that brings the sweat? How many disorganized solo teams did you stomp into the ground before you ran into these guys? I'd love to know the result of your last 20-30 games before these two matches. Gonna bet you didn't lose much at all.
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I just think he's a badly designed killer that isn't fun to play against. I don't think he's really overpowered anymore though. It's more that he still has addons that make his counterplay very unreliable. The addons that make the flamethrowers useless need to be changed.
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I want these easy survivor games you're talking about. My solo queue teammates won't even do gens. They just farm the event points and nothing else. I'm escaping 40% at most in solo queue while my win rate as killer is more than double that.
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The agenda against windows is one of those things I genuinely can't figure out. It's something that primarily benefits solo queue players. You have literally no way of knowing which pallets your random teammates have used. No amount of skill or map knowledge can tell you if the pallet you're running to is still going to be up. Solo queue is already borderline unplayable and killing windows would make it even more difficult than it already is because everyone would be running into deadzones like headless chickens. It'd be even worse than you'd initially think considering the new map reworks have so few pallets and already have massive deadzones from the start. All windows really does is give casual players information that SWFs already have. It doesn't just suddenly make you a good player.
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What's funny is there are actually people on this forum who would unironically defend this as fair and say the survivors just need to learn how to play against it.
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@KaTo1337 said:
Obviously in the eyes of BHVR Blight is fine. Accept it.
Nah. Companies reverse course all the time. He will get nerfed one day.
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The real reason they won't show it is because it would expose how bad the matchmaking system actually is. Imagine you know for a fact that you are a low MMR solo survivor and then the system throws you into a game with a P100 Nurse. That would create A LOT of awkward questions that Behavior probably doesn't want to answer.
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I saw a comp killer called Knightlight say the change is going to make him into an S tier killer. I think there might be a problem when even a comp player thinks something is too strong. The kill rates will speak the loudest I guess. If the new skull merchant can reach a 70% kill rate then the new Trickster might go even higher. They really need to slow down with this new trend of overbuffing killers. The concept of incremental changes is lost on Behavior at this point.
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I have 4000 hours and I can only manage a 40% escape rate in solo queue. My kill rate is more than double this. It's almost like solo queue is just too hard. The worst part is it's only going to get worse with the maps getting smaller and less safe with every update. SWF is the only way to enjoy playing survivor at the moment. The recent balance changes have turned DBD into a game that favors bad survivors to a game that favors bad killers. This new direction of making it so mediocre killers can compete with top 5% SWFs is just making the game horrible for everyone else.
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I don't quite understand what they're going for by buffing trickster. Whenever you ask people which killers they hate Trickster is always near the top of every list. Why would you buff that killer of all killers? This is one of those things that nobody asked for and no one is going to enjoy.
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@mca240 said:
For those saying MFT is no longer useful. Are you kidding me? People will combine OTR or DH with MFT. It will be the new meta and very good since MFT now works when deep wounded AND exhausted.
As for Trickster. I love the recoil being removed so people on controller can play him. But all the other changes sound very broken. We'll have to wait for the PTB though.
Also, poor Legion and Deathslinger players...
Most players are not going to use multiple perks to get value out of MFT. It makes more sense to just run sprint burst or lithe. These perks are very strong on their own and you can take whatever else you want without having to rely on another perk.
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No one is going to use this new version. It's just another useless perk taking up space now. I figured they would give it a time limit or something. Maybe something like 30 seconds and it would deactivate. Killer mains got exactly what they wanted. Back to sprint burst and lithe for everyone.
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This is something that will 100% be patched out of the game once they figure out a good alternative. There's nobody who defends this outside of killers who are terrified of being teabagged at the hatch by some random. It's almost universally agreed upon that it's a waste of time.
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This needs to happen.
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DBD requires an enormous amount of time invested to master more than anything else. The skill requirement isn't that high since almost everything that goes into being good comes down to knowledge and experience. DBD doesn't require mechanical skill in the same way that a competitive shooter or RTS does. Anyone can be good at DBD if they invest enough time. Investing a bunch of time into a shooter will never make you the next Shroud.
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I'll say what I always say. There's zero incentive to stay in a survivor game that looks like it's going badly. You aren't going to win and you aren't going to get any bloodpoints either. Especially true if you are a solo player. The odds of you making a comeback are very low due to how quickly things snowball for the killer. For less experienced players there's also a high probability of them being hard tunneled out so I kind of understand why they give up. The person who gave up might have just been tunneled out five games in a row. It's impossible to really know their motivation for giving up. Give people more of an incentive to stay in games if you want to solve this problem. I don't know how to achieve this but clearly something needs to be done.
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This can't be serious. The new Borgo is garden of joy for killers.
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@Dustin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562722#Comment_3562722
I don't see the Myers update being that close by. I'm mostly stating I imagine they'll band aid fix it if it becomes a trend before the rework.
Unless things have changed I doubt the Tombstone is removed entirely due to achievements. I recall this was an issue mostly because PSN related ones. Example being some achievements not being changed because of reasons such as the Huntress' insanely tedious one to get X amount of long range snipes compared to other platforms.
Again though - I'm out of the loop so if that's changed then that's the only thing that makes me have doubts.
It's mostly the purple one that's a problem IMO. I definitely think the iri one will stick around for achievement purposes.
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If the majority seem to agree that something is boring then it actually is a good argument. When something is boring people will stop playing which is a bad thing.
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@Dustin said:
If this becomes a trend it wouldn't surprise me if BHVR quickly addresses it next mid chapter.
I can already see BHVR just making it so the Tombstone prompt doesn't appear on anyone with Endurance.
More likely that they just wait for the rework and delete the tombstone piece entirely.
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I'll counter that with another question. Do killers want to play against survivors who can actually beat them or do they just want to bully bad players? How else do you explain the five dodges I get every time I play on my P100? Killers seem even more eager for easy matches than survivors do.
Literally all I want them to do is nerf Nurse and Blight. That is 100% reasonable to anyone who isn't completely biased in favor of the killer side. I just don't think they should balance killers around top 0.001% gameplay. You can balance around top 10% high MMR for sure but balancing around comp gameplay in DBD is beyond ridiculous. I've never advocated for killers being made significantly weaker across the board. At this point I don't even know what killers want other than MFT being nerfed. Behavior has listened to nearly every complaint killers have made and acted on it.
- DS - Dead
- Dead Hard - Dead
- Circle of Healing - Dead
- Iron Will - Nerfed
- Self Heals - Nerfed
- Gen times - Increased
- Maps - Many reworked and made smaller like killers asked for
- Prove Thyself and BNP - Nerfed
What have they not done at this point? Some of you just aren't ever going to be satisfied unless you have a 95% win rate. Survivors are far weaker than they used to be. I know because I put thousands of hours into killer when old dead hard was at its peak. A meta survivor team from that era was far stronger than a meta survivor team from today.
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I love watching people defend this killer. People will literally make a thread crying about how unhealthy MFT is and then two minutes later defend nurse. You can't make it up. Alf has to be at 1000 nurse wins in a row by now right? I just find it so funny how people get upset with broken things on the other side but act like it's no big deal when it's their side. The arguments for nurse and blight still existing are ridiculous to begin with. It goes either one of two ways
- lol git gud! (they have no argument)
- but bro what about the 0.001% chance I run into a comp SWF? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WIN????
It'd be more respectable if people just admitted they enjoy being overpowered.
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Yea this redesign isn't it. Outside of Wesker Behavior's recent killer design has been terrible so I am not shocked that the skull merchant rework is awful too.
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It does basically nothing unless you're one of those guys who literally facecamps. Just as everyone with any common sense predicted. It's not the insanely overpowered gamebreaking change that delusional people claimed it would be. You can still proxy camp which is even stronger. I haven't even seen a single person unhook themselves yet.
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I personally knew two people who played DBD and had over one thousand hours. They both quit around six months ago because in their words the game has too much "BS". They were both survivor mains and they cited tunneling, facecamping, and overpowered killers as their main reason. People talk about how difficult killer is and usually completely ignore how horrible the game is for survivors who don't play in a SWF.
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I just don't care enough to do it. I haven't had my post game chat open in years. I play the game and then I leave. I have no interest in getting involved in internet drama with random strangers. It's a waste of time and leads to nothing positive. Like what am I supposed to achieve with this? Do you really think the person who teabagged the killer all game cares about what I say? Toxicity would have died out years ago if this sort of thing was effective. Toxic people are always going to be toxic no matter what you say to them. The best approach will always be to completely disregard them. It's not like the real world where there are actual consequences for being a dickhead.
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It's the same every match because 95% of survivor perks are terrible. Perks like resilience, windows, adrenaline, dead hard, etc aren't even overpowered and I can't believe people truly think they are. People use those perks every game because there are very few perks worth using. The only problematic survivor perks are MFT and the Buckle Up/FTP combo. Nearly everything else has already been nerfed into uselessness. Anything else is just people whining for the sake of it. Are we just supposed to run meme perks every game?
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@TheeSpongeman said:
Playing a killer alot, I can say a full survive with friends groups feels like an impossible uphill battle. There needs to be some solo play, otherwise they would either have to buff the killers or weaken the survivors.
These teams are only like 3% of the survivor population. There are official stats to back this up.
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Wesker and other killers on his level should be the strongest killers in the game. S tier killers should not exist and there is no good argument that they should considering what they are capable of. I don't think D tier killers should exist either to be clear. A small handful of killers are just pathetically weak.
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This is one of those everyone knows type of deals. The only people who defend Blight are people who enjoy being overpowered and do not care at all about game balance. Its the same energy that old dead hard defenders had. A lot of killer mains want to balance around high MMR. I say we start with Blight Let's analyze what a high MMR blight can do against high MMR survivors. Momo managed to win 1500 games in a row at HIGH MMR (without OP addons btw). Clearly this shows how overpowered he is when high MMR players can't even win against him. Name any other competitive multiplayer game where this sort of win streak would be considered acceptable by the community. The bottom line is that Blight is completely broken and it goes far beyond his addons. The day this POS killer finally gets a fat nerf should be declared a holiday within the DBD community.
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I have played like three games in the last few weeks. I just don't find it rewarding enough to be worth my time. To me the game isn't enjoyable unless I am winning or getting a ton of bloodpoints. Solo queue is a terrible experience that provides neither of these. Just ragequitting, awful players, and horrible matchmaking. Losing AND getting low rewards does get boring after awhile. It totally kills my motivation to play game. The only way you can consistently escape in solo queue is if you play for the hatch which isn't fun either. I don't enjoy hiding while the killer bleeds my teammate out for four minutes.
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I personally think objective bloodpoints should be distributed to the entire team whenever a gen is completed. They have done similar things during events. Each survivor who is alive should get 1000-1500 whenever a gen is completed. Objective bloodpoints are too low and don't reflect the time you put in. They should also uncap categories or raise them. Then you could at least get more than 10k boldness. These two changes would give the person being chased/tunneled all game far more bloodpoints. Survivor scoring is just very unrewarding in general compared to playing killer. Yet the devs don't seem to care at all. Whenever I need bloodpoints for something I immediately hop onto killer to grind. I don't even consider doing it on survivor because of how bad it is.
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@Archol123 said:
What is this made up number of 80% of survivors using coms? Not even 80% of survivor players are in swf, I think the latest stats they released were around 40-50% solo q.
Besides that yes obviously bigger maps are terrible for killers without map mobility, not really a shocker though, we know this for several years now. You can still do fine in 90+ % of matches if you are either good at the game or pick a rather strong killer and are somehwat decent since matchmaking does not work properly.
Also as for the title, it is their only objective? what else are they supposed to do? They are supposed to sit on gens and the killer is supposed to stop them... It is rather simple. Besides that people have been asking for different objectives for quite some while now, but it didn't happen yet and I don't have much hope it will happen in the near future...
I don't remember the exact number but it was very low for how many people are playing in a 4 man SWF. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4% of survivors last time they released stats on this type of thing. Probably a similar number in 3 man SWF. People who claim they're going against comp SWFs every game are just coping with how bad they are at the game. There's no accountability at all from some players. No one looks for ways they could improve. They just immediately start making excuses about how it must have been a SWF. The logic of whining about SWFs doesn't make sense at all anyway. People claim it's impossible to win as killer. If that's true then how did you reach this "high MMR" where you only get matched with sweaty SWFs? Game must not be as hard as people say it is if you reached this point to begin with. If people lost as much as they say then they would be in low MMR going against potatoes more often than not.
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Blight or Nurse. Nearly every game is just a waste of time that I am eager to move on from. At least it usually ends quickly in solo queue. I will not give up on whining about these ridiculous killers until Behavior gives them the nerf they have deserved for years. I would have said Skull Merchant but she's getting changed. I strongly dislike Xenomorph as well. A sleeper pick for me is Myers. Every single Myers I have seen in the last six months or so runs the exact same addons. It's 100% going to be a tombstone piece or infinite tier 3. He's either going to delete someone from the match at 3-4 gens or camp someone out with zero opposition. I can't even remember the last time I saw a normal Myers. I am fine with pretty much every other killer.
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@Hensen2100 said:
Nurse and blight get sweeped by SWFs? Lol, my guy they are the defacto SWF destroying killers.
Also no mention of Oni or Sadako which is weird. Mother's comb Sadako can mori someone before corrupt is even over if the survivor messes up 2 tape runs. Oni gets 1 hit off a weaker player and then it doesn't matter if the other survivors are good at looping or not, especially if he has a speed addon
Some people are straight up delusional about how good the average SWF Is. They talk about SWFs like they are gods who are descending from the heavens to crush mere mortals in DBD. If someone is losing more than a few games here and there as Blight/Nurse then it is 100% a skill issue. You've got guys out there with 1000 game nurse streaks and 1500 game Blight streaks for crying out loud.
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Please do this before MFT is nerfed. I want to see if the MFT meta makes the game as impossible as some killer mains swear it is. You'd swear the kill rate was 25% depending on who you're listening to. I'm expecting roughly 55% and i'd love to see if official numbers line up with that. What I really want them to do is show the escape rate for three and four man SWF vs everyone else. That would actually be interesting.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557667#Comment_3557667
Truth been said.
The thing is, survivor feel much less stressful and chill the killer, no matter the outcome. I wonder why that is and how to change that factor. I can sympatice with killer mains tbh even i often sound like a complete survivor player, because those games can feel very unpleasent.
The problem is, that i dont think it has anything to do with balance. It might be the overall nature of the game. But the big question still stands: What can the devs do, to change stressful killer games , or is it just ment to be that way?
For example, when i watch the Streamer TrueTalent, he always seems to be in this situation i have discribed, at least when he plays killer. Eventually he will (or already has) burned out on DbD because of that. I am not a Truetalent fan , but i know what he actually means when he complains about killer experience. His problem is that he can not sort his feelings correctly. In his mind the game is unballanced, and thats why he has this bad killer experience.
It's obvious why it's more stressful IMO. You don't have as many believable excuses for losing when you play killer. If you are bad then you will lose consistently. If you are good then you will win more often than not. You can load up solo queue and lose a lot. You can also credibly say that it wasn't your fault in a lot of cases since it's a team game. I think that alone reduces the pressure. I've always felt like a lot of people who are scared to play killer are just trying to protect their ego. The thought of losing and not having anything to blame is too much for certain types of people. Survivor also has more downtime where you are just holding M1 on a generator which I suppose makes it feel less stressful to people.
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I'd rather keep no hook grabs than have anti facecamp to be honest.
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@Fuzzycube said:
Mostly, I'd add WIndows of Oppertunity which has consistently been the most used perk in the entire game for a long time, even when Dead Hard was in it's pre-nerf state, I think it should go back to having a cool-down but survivors seem to take having passive perfect knowledge of loops (With zero cooldown) for granted now.
Also Resilience shouldn't have a vault speed bonus, don't think survivors should get a vault speed bonus in general and the perk already does a lot of other things already.
It's not hard to remember where pallets in the area are before you drop one. I would hope that most people are capable of making a mental note of this. I don't think nerfing windows will really change much. People are just going to throw the pallet and then run to another strong pallet nearby. Either that or just hold W to the other side of the map while they wait for the cooldown to go away. I do use windows and I am fine when I am hit with blindness. I don't just suddenly forget how to play the game because I can't see exactly where every pallet is. The main strength of windows to me is that it enables me to not start a chase in a dead zone where my solo teammates used all of the pallets. I don't think a nerf is necessary but I also don't really care since I don't believe nerfing it will achieve what people think it will. M1 killers will still suck and good survivors will still be good.
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@Mr_K said:
So it's the same level as three years ago? Clearly something happen to grow that number over these three years for you to complain now. Maybe the game is stable around 30k players? Maybe the numbers don't reflect the real playerbase. It is on other platforms. I take it you are looking at all of those too?
It does indicate a trend in the wrong direction. If you want to use another metric then you could use twitch viewership which has declined from 25k average viewers in 2022 to 18k in 2023. It's clearly not just Steam where this decline in interest is happening. I don't think pointing this out rises to the level of complaining. I am concerned about the health of the game more than anything else. Some people will frequently point out that the game is old as a reason. Personally I find this to be a BS excuse since plenty of older games are still showing growth. Losing this much of your player base likely means something about the current direction of the game isn't connecting with a lot of players.
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It's mainly better for playing killer. Playing killer on controller is awful based on the times I tried it out. I'm convinced that most people who think killer is hard are playing on controllers. On PC you have so much more precision which makes higher skill killers much easier to play. Getting 360'd is basically impossible unless you are bad.
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He's absolutely right about knock out. In 4000 hours I have never seen anyone who wasn't trying to ruin the game use this perk. It's always the guy who wants to bleed the entire team out and never hooks anyone. This perk exists for no reason other than to make solo players miserable. I predict salty campers will use this a lot when the patch goes live and we'll have to wait 6 months for it to get reworked. I don't have strong opinions about the rest of the perks.
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Matchmaking has always been the biggest problem. There are too many instances of me getting 1-2 completely incompetent teammates and a ridiculously sweaty killer. I can point out multiple cases of this in every session I play. Earlier I went against a sweaty Artist with 4000 hours. One of my teammates had 421 hours. They were significantly worse than the rest of the team and were quickly deleted from the match. I don't need to go into how the rest of the game played out. The games really aren't that bad when everyone can pull their weight. Even when I go against stronger killer. The RNG factor is just too strong in solo queue. The odds of you getting at least one terrible teammate are extremely high.
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I still find him very unfun to play against. I'm just not a fan of his design to the point where I might put him in my bottom five killers to play against. Although I don't think he's ridiculously OP anymore.
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@DBD78 said:
Of course it's skill issues. Even in high MMR kill rate is probably at least 30% not 0%.
It was 61% at high MMR last time they released stats. Do you really believe it has been cut in half since then? Winning at high MMR being impossible is just a cope that bad killers with too much ego love to fall back on.