I_CAME
I_CAME
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They don't need to completely kill slugging. They just need to do something about it at the end of the game after the killer has already won. There needs to be some sort of accelerate bleedout option when there are only two survivors left so people don't have to endure a four minute bleedout while the other survivor hides for the hatch. It would also prevent killers from bleeding the last survivor out for the sake of being toxic. I do occasionally run into killers who will attempt to slug the entire team from the beginning but I don't feel like this is very common.
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It favors killers if the killer plays to win. By playing to win I mean strong perks and heavy camping/tunneling. That's why killer winstreaks are so absurd compared to survivor winstreaks. If these demon SWFs were as frequent as some people say then someone would have ended Momo's 1500 game Blight winstreak or Alf's 1000 game Nurse winstreak. CMWinter even managed to get a 166 game winstreak as PIG. One of the worst killers in the game. Meanwhile the highest SWF winstreak of the MMR era is only around 200 and that team included literal comp players who were using clock maps, call outs, etc. The sweat was far beyond what any other four man SWF would ever use in a normal game. Bottom line is Nurse and Blight are far more broken than anything your typical survivors have. My kill rate from when I bothered counting was 80%. My escape rate is 40% in solo queue.
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@Xernoton said:
After 7 years it's only natural that some people will leave the game. Eventually you grow tired of the same gameplay over and over again. That however does not mean that the game is in a bad spot.
There have always been people that claimed that killer is way too easy. It's likely you play against bad survivors, if you genuinely feel that way. Against good survivors, playing killer is still immensely difficult. Half the time it's enough for survivors not to actively throw the match to put up a real challenge. And if they play good on top of it, then you're in for a hard match.
Solo queue has never been great. But honestly I don't think it's that bad. Yes, you get the occasional Self-Care + No Mither guy (or something similar) but other than that, it's fine. You can win against most killers without too much effort because most killers aren't all that good either.
Playing killer IS easy relative to playing solo queue. How many SEAL Team Six SWFs really exist out there? Getting four insanely good survivors is far more rare than running into one sweaty killer simply due to how difficult it is to get four great players together on a single team. I am basing this on my own experience playing both roles. My kill rate is more than double my escape rate in solo queue. You say that most killers aren't that good. Neither are most survivors and the odds of getting a bad survivor are much higher. One bad survivor is all it takes for a team to completely collapse. If killer were as difficult as some people make it out to be then none of these ridiculous win streaks people go on would be possible. Even winning 10-20 games in a row would be extremely rare in a game that was well balanced.
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I won't claim that I have quit entirely but I definitely don't play as much. I will play maybe 1-2 times a week since Xeno was released. Before I was playing every day. I don't even think it's burnout for me. I just don't like how the game is at the moment. Every game is just too sweaty and it kills my enjoyment of the game. I'd say the majority of my solo queue matches are just sweaty killers trying as hard as possible to speedrun the 4K. Lethal nurses, blights, etc who are trying to end every match at 5 gens. Even when it's not one of these killers the mentality is still the same. Killer zeroes in on worst survivor and tunnels them out. Suddenly the game is over and all my offerings/items were wasted.
After awhile the ultra competitive games get old. I just want to play with people who don't play like their life is on the line. This is definitely related to the MMR system. I get matched with far sweatier players than I did before MMR. Even though I am a solo queue player who doesn't win enough to justify being constantly matched with sweaty Blights. The MMR system should either be deleted entirely or made significantly more strict so that the sweatiest players are kept out of normal matches. I had two people I used to play with and both quit in the last six months because of how sweaty the average match is now. I'd also say the amount of in game toxicity has increased. I am bled out and humped on the ground at least several times per session for no reason. I don't take this personally but I also don't enjoy having my time wasted.
tl;dr - game is too sweaty compared to in the past
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There definitely needs to be something about end game slugging when the game is already won for the killer. I'm talking about the awkward hide and seek game for the hatch while one person bleeds out. Also bleeding people out for the sake of being toxic.
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IMO two kills and two escapes should be the ideal outcome of most games. I don't care about made up win conditions that streamers came up with to determine who won the game. The 39% escape rate during the eruption meta that did not even account for games with disconnects was not even remotely balanced. I'm shocked that so many killer mains still fight so hard to defend it. It probably contributed more to the game losing players than anything else in recent memory. DBD is a PVP game and should be balanced as such. They shouldn't make killers stronger because of immersion or any other silly reason. I think a lot of killer mains have been conditioned into believing they have failed if they don't get at least three kills every single game.
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Please do abuse slugging. It'll just lead to another basekit change to prevent excessive slugging if killer mains are obnoxious enough about it.
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@Cj3 said:
As much as I love Meyers as is, I gotta say, its about time. Its really dumb that for most of the time, all Meyers either run infinite T3 or tombstone piece. Im not blaming them, because he is so weak compared to other killers, but Im excited to see what BHVR has planned for him. I hope they keep the mirror add-ons, though.
I can't even remember the last time I played against a Myers who didn't have one of those two addons. Realistically they'll probably destroy his OP addons and buff him to C tier at best.
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The DS change was a huge miss and I have no idea why it hasn't been changed back. Especially now with tunneling at an all time high. I played a lot of killer during this time period and I strongly disagree with people saying it didn't do anything against tunneling. It's not perfect but it DOES waste a significant amount of the killer's time. There are exceptions like nurse and blight but that has more to do with those killers being absurdly overpowered than anything else.
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Why do people think they should be able to win consistently with meme builds? I've never understood this way of thinking. If the survivors bring meta perks and play well then they should almost always win against a killer who doesn't bring a strong build. You either play to win or you run a meme build. This is basically how things are in any competitive game. You can't necessarily have both. I'll sometimes run into people playing low tier killers like Pig without any form of slowdown. Then they'll have the nerve to whine in the post game chat about how they didn't get a kill. Like what did you expect when you brought a meme build?
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@CrypticGirl said:
How often do you end up queueing with the same people? I only have it happen once in a blue moon, so it hardly matters if you block anyone. Your chances of queueing up with them again should be very, very low as it is. Unless you have crossplay off, maybe?
If you play during odd hours it will happen a lot. At least it does in my case. During primetime the chances are very low.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Title: Absolutely not.
Unpopular opinion but I think WoO is a crutch. Of course nothing against anyone who uses it. This is just my own opinion.
This is how you know killers are running out of things to complain about.
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The anniversary and then summer event that just happened. You got a ton of bloodpoints in a very short period of time. It's easy to see how less experienced players would have high prestige characters if they played during those events. The anniversary in particular was a 5x bonus every game. It doesn't take that long to get a single character to P100 anyway if that's all you play.
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My teammates are a coin flip in solo queue from day to day. I don't consistently get teammates from one extreme or the other. Somedays my teammates are ridiculous and on other days the games are over at five gens. Today I went 6-3 in solo queue. Great teammates in most games. Yesterday it was dreadful with the teammates you described. I try to take chase in solo queue when possible. The killer will often leave when they realize I am competent but it does buy a bit of time.
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@Farya said:
Baffling that some people still think that communication is the main strength of SWFs
I never played the game with friends, always solo. But I really think this is the main strength of SWF. What else is it, do you think? Maybe you can teach me better, since I just know the SWF from the killers side. Always knowing where the killer is and where he goes next without having to use Perks for it (same goes for team mates, their exact position and so on..) - yes I consider this the main strenght of SWF.
If things became a problem perhaps we could have languages accepted to play with or spoken for matchmaking
That would be great. Since "developing" or "learning" languages by just playing with french or balkan people f.e is nothing I could make use of, since I don't even know the basics of these languages.
Easy (sorry just copy and pasting answer above)
np, my response overlapped with your answer :P didn't read it by then.
For really strong SWFs having four insane players on one team is the main strength. That and they are playing to win. The main reason solo queue is so weak is because all it takes is one weak survivor for the killer to get an easy win. It's a big part of why tunneling is so strong. There's also tons of people who throw for archives in solo. This doesn't happen in a SWF that is playing to win.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3547437#Comment_3547437
I mean with 4ks required for some things you would just need to slug 3 people then because otherwise you as the killer still have the issue of someone needing to get the 4k for example for an achievement.
I would either change hatch/ last man standing into something else or just completely remove hatch, basically forcing survivors to still try to win through finishing gens and opening the gates. Survivors won't have to hide for hatch anymore, killer does not have to slug anymore, since he can just patrol gens, and if you want to give up you can just run towards him and he has no reason not to hook you because the last guy cannot just escape through hatch.
So make it take 30 seconds to one minute before the bleed out finishes. The killer still has a chance to find the hatch if it spawns. A survivor can already realistically hide for the entire bleedout anyway. Making it slightly faster isn't going to change much. Worst case scenario you're in a 50/50 at the end where you're both looking for the hatch. Doesn't mean killers won't be able to get a 4K.
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I play nice because it's how I want to play. Not because i'm desperately seeking validation from random strangers on the internet. My ego isn't so fragile that I genuinely get upset over people repeatedly crouching at me.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546031#Comment_3546031
I disagree with this sentiment, his base kit is still OP. He should be a 4.4 killer not a 4.6. With that much mobility he needs to have a weakness to just W chasing.
He needs a speed bump at the very least. I don't thinking nerfing him to 4.4 will do anything against the insane Blights. The problem with Blight is the enormous amount of pressure he can generate due to him not having any sort of weaknesses whatsoever. Blight can down someone within seconds and be on the other side of the map within seconds to down someone else since he can freely rush even when not near a survivor. Either his mobility or his chase need to be nerfed. No killer should be that good at everything. You just don't have time to do anything if the person playing him is sufficiently skilled. The only reason his kill rate isn't higher is due to the incompetence of many people who play him. When balancing killers like this they need to look at people like Momo and his 1500 game win streak. Were all 1500 of those teams bad or is the killer just overpowered? I'm thinking it's the latter.
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If dodging really does hurt the matchmaking then it should absolutely stay. There shouldn't even be a debate in that case. I can subjectively say I get far less dodges when I play on a low prestige character vs my P100. Arguably the biggest problem DBD has is terrible matchmaking. With that being said I don't know how big of an impact it really has since no one knows the inner workings of the MMR system. I've never really had an issue with targeting personally. I'm good enough that people who overcommit to me are probably going to lose unless it's a sweaty blight/nurse who is determined to get me out of the game. If it helps who people who do have that problem then all the better. People shouldn't feel afraid to play their P100 characters.
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I actually think the game is fairly well balanced for the most part. It's just things like bad matchmaking and a few ridiculously overpowered killers that make survivor less fun than it should be. Deleting Blight and Nurse would be a great start.
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@Tsulan said:
The bloodweb needs to be purged of useless offerings. No one uses the grey bloodpoint offerings. The fog offerings look like ######### on daylight maps and the hook placement addons get only used by bully squads. Remove them all. Survivors can´t lose their items anymore unless they die. Which saves quite an amount of bloodpoints.
Killers used to earn more bloodpoints than survivors. But then survivors complained and now both survivors and killers get roughly the same amount of bloodpoints. Killers earning now 50% more is a myth from bad survivors. Do good killers earn 25k+ bloodpoints per match? Sure! But so do good survivors! Bad killers will earn considerably less, just like bad survivors.
Killers need a perk like Ace in the Hole. That allows them to earn addons during a match. Tie it to an extra objective like finding green glyphs and both sides benefit from it.
yea it's my fault when my solo teammates constantly dc, give up on the hook, or are just bad in chase. All causing the game to end quickly. How many bloodpoints you get as survivor is directly correlated to how good your teammates are. I DO get bloodpoints when my team isn't full of idiots. In solo queue that's asking a lot.
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What? Survivors are the ones who need more. I get significantly more bloodpoints playing killer than I do survivor.
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@Maperson said:
His basekit is completely fine, just nerf the ring and call it a day.
Being able to win 1500 games in a row once you reach a certain skill level is not fine. There is no other game on the planet where the community would attempt to defend this. He absolutely needs and should get basekit changes.
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I get this a lot but it's not specific to any one killer. Bleeding out for absolutely no reason is more common than it has ever been. It's definitely something that Behavior should look at. We at least need the option to give up in certain scenarios. Absolutely nothing about being bled out for four minutes is fun.
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@Emeal said:
No normal player misses as many skill checks as the bots do.
Oh you sweet innocent little thing. Survivors miss skill checks all the time lol.
My brother in christ I have 4000 hours in this game. I never see anyone miss this many skill checks. Maybe a player who just installed the game. No one in my games ever misses this many skill checks. In my games even things like merciless storm are rarely missed. Most people are reasonably competent at hitting even difficult skillchecks.
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The problem is ego for a lot of people. DBD players take losing more personally than any game i've ever played. I had one of the worst games of my life as Blight on RPD the other day. Got absolutely destroyed by a strong team and made a million mistakes. They made sure to rub in it too. So what? It's just a bad game and it's not a big deal. No one is going to remember these games other than you. Get over yourself and accept that you're going to lose badly at times. The reason losing feels worse as killer is because you don't have as many believable excuses as survivors do. You're the entire team and it all comes down to how you perform.
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If it makes you feel any better I just got matched with the guy who is ranked #3 in the world in Blight hits. For context I am a solo player. It's just bad all around.
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People still pretending like Blight's only issue is his addons. I don't even think the guy with the 1500 win streak uses his best addons. How much longer are we going to let this ridiculous killer continue to exist in his current form?
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I vividly remember you guys said the same thing when spirit got nerfed. Went on with all of that BS about how terrible she is because they introduced some actual counter play.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543019#Comment_3543019
yeah, xeno is trash now lmao
I'll be here in a few weeks when he still has one of the highest kill rates in the game.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542495#Comment_3542495
Turrets are now a lose lose situation
Break the turret?
Lose massive distance.
Don't break it?
Become m1 killer
Before the update they benefitted the killer more than the survivors due to how long it took to set them up and how useless they were against a killer with any amount of situational awareness. They're still pretty weak to be honest. Especially if someone brings the addons which make them even worse. It sounds like you just don't want the turrets to exist at all so you can have your power up 100% of the time with zero downside.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Btw I love the fact that since the patch I am seeing 0 Aliens and like 4+ Weskers haha.
I wish I had that luck. I got three aliens in a row earlier.
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lmao @ people who really thought this change wasn't going to happen. It was obvious that they buffed him too much from PTB to live. This is just a correction and a completely reasonable one. Finally I don't have to worry about bad Xenos constantly missing and STILL being inches away from me. Now you will have to actually express a small amount of skill in your gameplay. A fantastic change by the devs.
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It doesn't make any sense at all. Survivor bloodpoints desperately need some kind of change. Even if it is just increasing objective bloodpoints. Getting 1250 bloodpoints for a 90 second generator is ridiculous and makes zero sense. There also needs to be more ways to earn survival bloodpoints since you will NOT escape every game. Realistically in solo queue you will escape in maybe 30-40% of your games if you aren't playing for the hatch. That's an entire category where you get nothing in a lot of matches.
The current meta for getting bloodpoints as survivor is to play as inefficiently as possible
- Dive bomb the hook with no regard for anything
- Spam boons instead of doing generators
- Inefficiently group up for gens
Does anyone else see a major problem with this?
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He will get nerfed when his sales go down.
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@Venusa said:
I really like the aura-hiding and silent grunts part.
But the extended endurance is meaningless if the killer wants to tunnel me off hook anyways. So it doesn't really help against a deliberately tunneling killer imo.
Most killers don't do this in my experience. Most of them will proxy the hook and then come back to tunnel once the person has been unhooked. I get a lot of value out of it personally.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537445#Comment_3537445
It won't even do that.
- Get hooked
- Leatherface facecamps
- Unhook yourself
- Leatherface chainsaws you twice in one sweep
- Get hooked again
- Why am i on the hook?
Which is why there needs to be a special mechanic for leatherface camping hooks. The fact that we still don't have one is ridiculous.
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@Kius said:
sure lets turn all killers into m1 basic killers that get easily outplayed by MFT and turn into the game into a pre drop breaking pallet simulator..
MFT is getting nerfed. Can't use this as an excuse for poor balance forever.
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I have never seen a truly good survivor with under 3000 hours. 250 hours is beginner level.
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@the_voices said:
I genuinely think MTF is the biggest crutch perk the devs have made recently. At least with old Dead Hard you still needed to be good at looping to get great value and needed to be somewhat smart about it, but for this, you just get a massive boost in chase for doing nothing.
It's not really a crutch though. It does nothing for bad survivors. If you have bad pathing, can't chain loops together, etc then it doesn't do much for you. It's a problem when good survivors use it. A good survivor is basically impossible to catch as an M1 unless they make major mistakes.
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There have been a lot of good changes recently. With that being said there are still some things that feel awful to me.
- Why are survivor bloodpoints still so low compared to killer despite both sides investing the same amount of time?
- Why is the awkward slug for the 4K meta still a thing?
- Why do Blight and Skull Merchant still exist?
- Why is lobby dodging still allowed?
- Why is the matchmaking so bad?
- Solo queue is just way too hard. I have nearly 4000 hours and I struggle to escape unless I am playing for the hatch. The teammates I get are just not up to the task usually. This ties in with bad matchmaking. I'll get teammates with meme perks and nearly every killer I go against is running full meta.
In terms of fun i'd say it's a 5/10. Every game is just too sweaty and plays out mostly the same. Killer finds my inexperienced solo teammate and tries to tunnel him out as fast as possible. It gets boring fast. For me there is a major lack of close matches. We either destroy the killer or we get destroyed. DBD has a major problem with games snowballing out of control in favor of one side.
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I have a freshly minted P100 and I never use it. I'm not afraid of getting tunneled. i'm afraid of getting dodged five times and then getting matched with a killer way higher than my MMR. I'm a solo queue player. Being high prestige doesn't mean i'm an angry god who needs to be avoided by every killer except the 7000 hour Blight on his 500 game win streak. My matches are FAR sweatier on average when I play my high prestige characters.
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I've seen this happen 3-4 times probably. It should not be possible. Bots shouldn't miss skill checks in general. They should be there to help you and not sabotage the game because they missed multiple skill checks. You're already at a disadvantage when a real player leaves.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534967#Comment_3534967
If I can't see it that doesn't make it any less likely that folks are going to dodge.
It's just going to make folks treat every lobby as if it there is someone with a p100 character in there. So folks will just dodge at the same rate, but for a different reasoning.
I dodge lobbies if the vibes are bad, if there is more than one toolbox, if suspect I've been backfilled. If someone doesn't feel up to playing with you the hidden prestige isn't gonna change that much at all.
I wanna have fun and be mildly challenged which is not an experience I get with p100 survivors cause usually the ones I encounter all have the same hyper competitive loudmouth jerk mentality they can't wait to unload after a match. I simply do not want folks like that in my games in any way at this point in life and when I started dodging p100's fairly consistently wouldn't you know, I saw a decrease in folks with that hyper competitive ego trip and increase in fun whether I won or lost.
Then they will eventually hide everything and you'll see nothing but a silhouette.
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He's the ultimate case of fun to play as and awful to play against. You haul those flamethrowers around only for him to use his tail attack and immediately destroy them regardless of where you placed them. The flamethrowers are just weak. I know from my own experience of playing 30+ games as Xeno at this point. The amount of time you have to react and destroy them even WITHOUT addons is absurd. Even if you lose your power then so what? It comes back so fast that it doesn't matter much in the big picture. Some say the turrets slow the killer down but they really don't. You have to take them out and set them up. If you spent 8-10 seconds setting up a flamethrower and it slows the alien down for 3 seconds then you are getting negative value out of it. The only killers i've seen struggle with flamethrowers are ones who are extremely bad. Any person with an ounce of situational awareness simply doesn't care.
A couple of suggestions I have
- Addons to make the flamethrowers weaker should NOT exist and should be repurposed into something else.
- Flamthrowers should do more to drain Xeno's power when he isn't in crawler mode. There should be more consequences for walking through a flamethrower in chase.
- Survivors should move faster when carrying a flamethrower
- Going into a tunnel should not make your power charge faster. Not only can you traverse the map in seconds but you also get your oppressive chase power back by the time you come out.
There's probably more that needs to be done but those are just some initial ideas. Right I just don't see the point of the flamethrowers when a decent player is just not bothered by them at all. How many games do we have to play against/as this guy and how high does the kill rate have to go before we admit he needs a few changes?
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@EvilSerje said:
Nurse (7 years) - ok.
Blight - ok.
Camping bubba - ok.
Camping every killer - ok.
Tunneling every killer - ok.
Very average new killer that can be easily stripped of his power (unlike Nemi, Demo or Wesker) - NERF IMMEDIATELY!!!!
I don't know what is happeing to this world...
The reworks required to fix all of these are far more extensive than what Xeno would require. Nurse in particular needs a complete rework and a different power. All they need to do with Xeno is make the turrets slightly more threatening and slow him down more after a miss.
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@Slan said:
I have played xeno and what you said is wrong. Correctly-placed turrets are effective as heck, but people tend to place them on tunnel exits instead of strategic places.
They're really not though. I've played 30+ games as him the past four days and it all comes down to reaction time. They aren't threatening anywhere unless you are extremely slow at reacting to them. I literally never get knocked out of my power unless my awareness is poor. You have more than enough time to tail whip them even without addons.
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There is no good reason at this point why survivors can't accelerate their bleed out in certain situations. Two survivors left and the one on the ground should be able to die within 30 seconds to 1 minute. Killer still has a chance to find the last survivor. If all remaining survivors are slugged then the survivors should be able to give up. I don't have an issue with tactical slugging during the match to apply pressure. I do it all the time when I play killer. The slug for the 4K meta in particular is what needs to go. It just creates this awkward hide and seek game which disrupts the normal flow of the game and wastes everyone's time.
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bloodpoint offerings should be universal and should apply across both roles. Cakes, streamers, etc should be in one giant pool that can be used by everyone. I have so many killers I just don't play because all of my cakes are on a few killers. I still have like 300 flans on blight for example.
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Only if you let solo players opt out of playing against strong killers. If killers can skip SWFs then why should I be forced into a guaranteed loss?