I_CAME
I_CAME
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The answer to a lot of problems in the game is stricter matchmaking. I have played enough of this game to know that the MMR system is far worse than it was in the period after it was first released. People whined about games being too sweaty and Behavior made things less strict to appease these people. People want to win every game but don't actually want to get matched with other sweaty players. I think this approach is unfair to the average player. Somehow the matchmaking seems to have gotten even worse recently. The amount of extreme mismatches I encounter now is far higher than it has ever been in the past. Most big streamers have called this out as well. I don't know what they changed recently but it definitely was a bad change. The matchmaking doesn't need to be extremely strict either. I don't expect people to sit through 20 minute queues for every match. SURELY there is something in between that and what we have now. It would make the game a lot better for 90% of players if the sweats were kept out of the average lobby.
I also think there is a real argument for giving bloodpoints a huge buff across the board. Especially on the survivor side. Veteran players may not care about bloodpoints but they are absolutely essential for new players and casual players. Maybe people wouldn't be so quick to give up if they felt they were actually getting something for the time they invested into a match. I can subjectively say that I didn't see anywhere near as many people ragequitting during the anniversary when people were actually getting bloodpoints for a change. Current survivor progression feels TERRIBLE. We've lost WGLF and Prove Thyself which has significantly cut down on the amount of bloodpoints survivors can earn. There are also more "nothing" games that are over in the first minute due to hook suicides, killers trying to speedrun the 4k, etc. As of right now I don't feel like there is any incentive for a survivor to stay in a game that doesn't seem to be going well. You aren't going to get anything out of it and are better off going next. Playing the game out is more often than not a waste of time. Give people something for their time so they have a reason to stick around.
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I actually don't play much at all anymore. I might try the alien chapter on the day of release. Beyond that i'll be back whenever they do something about the awful matchmaking and horrendous amount of bloodpoints survivors get compared to killers. Solo queue is just unbearable these days. Not only do you get destroyed but you also get nothing for your time. Meanwhile I can load up as killer and get around 100k per game. When I was playing a lot it was just addiction that kept me going.
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@Emoba said:
Yeah, that's just the kind of playerbase DBD has, sadly. They already are stressed out when queuing as killer so whenever they see big number on lobby screen they straight up can't take it anymore and end up dodging.
They're going to have a massive panic attack when Behavior kills lobby dodging in the near future. I can't even play my high prestige survivors because of all the dodging destroying the matchmaking.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Then play TCM for a few weeks before the game lost its charme.
There is 0 point in having a ranked mode. Because nothing would prevent players from sweating in Casual Mode instead.
I mean in theory casual mode would have some sort of MMR system to prevent this sort of thing. Realistically you'd have to implement huge restrictions in casual mode to make things like tunneling and camping practically impossible. You'd probably also have to lock certain killers like Nurse/Blight out of casual mode. Same for high level addons, items, perks on both sides. Would Behavior be willing to go that far? Probably not. There'd be too many arguments about what should and shouldn't be in casual mode I suppose. I do think it's worth trying however. I think the game needs a mode where casual players can queue up and not have to worry about being hard tunneled at five gens. I've tried to introduce multiple people to this game and they all quit because of tunneling.
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These threads really show who has never touched survivor. You don't have time to do anything other than gens unless the killer is brain dead and absolutely horrendous at the game. One guy decides to open chests or cleanse totems and it's almost always a loss. You either play to win or you play for your archive challenge and lose.
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Matchmaking doesn't work well is a large part of it. They need to fix the backfill issues/lobby dodging and raise the softcap a bit. If you're in solo queue you're at a disadvantage from the start. The escape rates from a year ago were only 39% across all survivors. That includes SWFs and doesn't include games where someone disconnects. I doubt the true solo queue escape rate is higher than 25-30%. In solo queue you can lose to mediocre killers frequently simply because your teammates are even worse. You get a lot of games where people just refuse to do gens or throw in order to do archive challenges.
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Too many reasons not to do them.
- Could get a killer that you just don't want to play.
- Maybe you want to do a survivor daily but it only gives you killer
- Rewards are too low
I can't even remember the last time I did a daily. Even with the double BPs it's not worth the effort.
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It is definitely much easier than it was in the past. The hardest period for me was when every game had 4X old dead hard. I was going full no life and playing killer six hours per day at that point. I can say with 100% certainty that the game today is not even remotely as difficult as it was then. Most teams will completely collapse if you play dirty, bring strong perks, and generally know what you're doing.
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I was 100% until the Skull Merchant Chapter. I haven't bothered since then.
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@ZE8ERDEE said:
Been playing this game for a while now probably too long lol but I mostly tend to dabble with surviour. I own all the dlc and wanted to try getting into killer for challenges and just to try out but I just can’t. I don’t normally get frustrated with games and especially don’t playing surviour but something about not being able to catch survivors at loops even with mind games isn’t exactly fun and maxing maybe 2-3 hooks just isn’t fun. I’m not saying want to win all the time nor expecting it I just wanna be able to at least somewhat get better at the role and clam myself down while playing it lol. Anyone got any maybe builds, killers or tips which would be useful for newer killers? As I said I’m not brand new to the game itself I know how must things work just new to the role itself
Killer is about macro gameplay more than anything else. It takes a long time to really develop a strong sense of what's going on around you at all times and how you should respond to it. That's why there are so many people who think playing killer is impossible. You have to put in thousands of hours to truly become good at killer. There are also right and wrong ways to chase at different types of tiles. If you play a lot of both roles then you will notice when killers are playing a tile wrong. It's pretty easy to tell who knows what they're doing and who doesn't. Casual killer players never learn how to do any of this properly in my experience. I will also point out that build can carry HARD. You're probably going to get destroyed by good survivors if you don't bring strong perks.
tl;dr : there is a lot of nuance to playing killer that bad players don't realize exists. bring strong builds and play a lot.
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It's near impossible for an average team to break a three gen on the new cowshed if the killer commits to it. The best strategy is just to suicide on the hook if you are unfortunate enough to get into this situation.
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Blight's addons are not his only problem. Having both the best chase and best mobility in the game is ridiculous. You are unable to do anything as a survivor unless your entire team is playing at comp level efficiency. He needs some sort of speed bump to prevent him from downing someone and then immediately rushing across the entire map to down someone else. You simply don't have time to do anything if the blight is sufficiently skilled. People need to go watch Momo's 1300+ win streak if you think this killer isn't insanely broken in the right hands. Guy doesn't even use broken addons. Find me another "competitive" game where someone can win this many games in a row. A killer this strong is fine but Made for This is OP. Ok then.
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It doesn't work. Nothing can convince me that it does. My games are all over the place. One match it's a 5000 hour blight who kills us at five gens. The next game is a legion with 400 hours. I've also seen enough anecdotal evidence from streamers to know that it's not just me. The game may have a matchmaking system but something is seriously wrong with it. I don't remember it being this bad when it was first released. I've seen a huge uptick of extreme mismatches starting some months after the prestige system was changed. Probably from all the people dodging any game that looks remotely challenging due to high prestige players. If backfill really is the issue then they need to come down hard on lobby dodging.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Maybe testing didn't end well...
Hook grabs removed is quite a good start and fixed camping for most killers imo. It was basically all I wanted.
I wish I had your luck. I still get so many people who just immediately facecamp the first down which is still incredibly strong against solo players.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516222#Comment_3516222
The amount of extremely high players is a miniscule fraction likely less than 1% of all players. Balance for 99% or 1%? Take your pick.
I always find it amusing when people say they should balance DBD around high level gameplay... which is literally nothing but facecamping, tunneling, gen rushing, discord SWF, and comp dropping pallets. Aka the things people whine about the most in DBD.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515671#Comment_3515671
It's not going to work if I'm a mean killer I will queue in casual and still tunnel and camp just to ruin your games, only way is to fix it with gameplay mechanics make it impossible or very punishing to hard tunnel, it will need some balancing with gen speed but it's doable, or as a bandaid make DS useful again
The biggest problem is matchmaking IMO. There's too many cases of survivors being in lobbies they have no business in. An insane survivor is very hard to tunnel since they will bring nothing but chase oriented perks and be very good at looping to begin with. I just watched a 4000 hour clown hard tunnel a survivor with 600 hours at five gens in a game that wasn't even close. What I want is for Behavior to tighten up the matchmaking and stop catering to sweaty killers who want easy games. People who play like their life is on the line should only be getting matched with SWFs. They shouldn't be able to terrorize the general population who stands no chance against this type of playstyle. Sweats should play against other sweats exclusively and nothing can convince me otherwise.
Anti tunnel exists and it's not useless. People just refuse to bring the perks for whatever reason. I've caused countless proxy camping tunnelers to lose games just by having OTR in my loadout. People who I see being tunneled rarely have it equipped. In most cases it would greatly extend the chase unless the killer is literally facecamping.
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Killer is laughably easy at the moment due to the non existent matchmaking. Anyone who is consistently losing is suffering from a major skill issue.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514904#Comment_3514904
Idk, I'm solo queued so I can't say exactly what they did but you don't get a lot of BP on survivor no matter what you do. I've had entire games play out and escape with like barely 15k BP and other games where I have like 24k so it's so finnicky.
But just using game sense and what I saw on the hud, after that first down, the other two got downed back to back within seconds so I assume they just ran to the killer and died on purpose
I am actually surprised that they have made no effort to buff survivor bloodpoints. You don't need to play the game for long to see that it's significantly easier to gain them as killer. Especially considering they probably want to retain new players who NEED bloodpoints. Solo queue is already the worst role in the game by far and we get less points than everyone else on top of it. That combined with the atrocious matchmaking makes for a bad experience. If they would keep the sweats in games with the other sweats then it wouldn't be as bad IMO. Right now it's all too common to load into a game with a 5000 hour blight who quickly dispatches your 500 hour teammates. You get nothing from the game and it feels like a waste of time. I've been shutting the game off early a lot more lately due to matchmaking issues.
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The WoO nerf isn't going to do anything. A halfway decent survivor can easily take a mental note of where the surrounding pallets are before he drops one. I really don't think resilience needs any changes either. Overall it looks like we've reached a point where people are calling for nerfs to perks that aren't even overpowered.
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I actually don't have many issues with the actual gameplay other than a few overpowered killers and atrocious matchmaking which leads to a lot of one sided games. I exclusively play solo queue so I am used to losing more than I win. What makes me play less is the ridiculously low amount of bloodpoints I get on survivor compared to what I get on killer. Survivor desperately needs a bloodpoint buff. Playing solo survivor is not worth it when you get basically nothing for your time investment. I miss the days of being able to bring WGLF and double my bloodpoints whenever I wanted. I currently only play if there is some sort of event going on.
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I'm glad Otz is actually reasonable and recognizes that the 3% is not a big deal. This perk is good but it's the most overhyped thing in a great long while. You'd think it is the sole reason people are losing games with the way people are talking about it. They could nerf it to 2% but people would still complain just as much. People will be unhappy with this perk until the haste is completely deleted. God forbid survivors have a strong perk. You've got Hens and his buddies winning 104/113 games using only M1 and no tunnel while people on the forum are claiming that it's impossible to win as M1 killers now. Something about this doesn't add up.
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@Melinko said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511289#Comment_3511289
Furthering the fact that survivor mains hate Nurse because they have to play a different playstyle. It isn't just walk to gen, do gen and loop and repeat.
You have to skip gens, get to the middle and move out so you create space for the final gen. It's not brain dead gen rush, it's a thinking game for 1 match.
Again, this is good for the game. She makes people do something different once in awhile.
There is no such thing as counterplay for a good nurse. You are going down quickly regardless of how good you are. The only way to beat a good nurse is to be in discord and have comp level efficiency on gens which 99.999% of survivors don't have. The fact that DBD has basically no functional matchmaking system doesn't help with the frustration of playing against nurse. If sweaty nurses were only matched with 5k hour survivors who play in SWFs then it wouldn't be a big deal. At least then they'd be cut off from the casual players who stand zero chance against her. This hasn't happened since Behavior is terrified of putting sweaty players into games with other sweaty players for whatever reason. OP killers should have much stricter matchmaking than they currently do. That would solve a lot of the problems.
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I don't get why they can't work on a middle ground solution to this. That would be more fair than either extreme.
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@appleas said:
Reasons for dodging:
Swfs
People livestreaming (I get twitch streamers in my lobbies occasionally)
Potential hackers (red flags on profile)
I’m sorry but there’s more incentive to look at the lobby first before I decide whether to play with a certain team or not based on my personal experience.
Another way to fix it is to look at the Survivor Killer ratio perhaps? If matchmaking has to grab a Killer from a lower skill bracket after 1 or 2 dodges, wouldn’t that imply that there aren’t much Killers of each skill bracket queuing in the first place? I wonder why. Food for thought.
yea but you're breaking the matchmaking when you dodge. You get a new lobby and it's some disorganized solo queue trainwreck. Then you predictably destroy them. Then your MMR goes higher and higher and you have to dodge more lobbies to get what you want. Further breaking the matchmaking. The lobby you dodged also gets backfilled by a brand new killer who proceeds to get bullied by survivors with thousands of hours. This is a massive issue with the matchmaking system and exactly why dodging needs to be heavily discouraged. Survivors don't get to choose whether they go against a sweaty alch ring blight or a nurse. Why should killers get to choose their games but not survivors?
I can subjectively say that my games are rarely close. The first scenario is I get some 7000 hour blight who destroys me and my 400 hour teammates. I am an exclusively solo queue player who does not win much so there is absolutely no reason why I should ever get matched with players like this. The other scenario is I get a trapper who just installed the game. He gets bullied all game and is aggressively teabagged at the gate. I don't think i'm wrong for thinking the status quo isn't a good thing.
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Could they really not find a fair middle ground?
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@SantaKlawz1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511170#Comment_3511170
Another fix can be making the lobby unknown to killers just like it is for survivors. Survivors have no knowledge of who the killer is or their add-ons. Maybe making the lobby so that killer can't see which survivors are playing nor their item and prestige could be a solution.
This is exactly what needs to be done. There is zero reason why killers should have so much information about the survivors before the game even starts. Prestige, profiles, items, and even cosmetics should not be seen. I'm not against the idea of locking the lobby either. That would guarantee that people couldn't exploit the system and I think everyone would be happier once their MMR reaches the point it should actually be at.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
The last survivor will beckon you over the hatch and rant "ez noob killer" in endgame chat. Not all survivors are guaranteed to be, but there's no guarantee that you or your friends aren't bad players.
So it's about some killers being thin skinned?
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It's funny how this is mentioned but people conveniently ignore Hens and other high level killer mains winning 104/113 games using no power, no slugging, no camping, and no tunneling. All with nothing but an M1. I guess people see what they want to see.
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3000 hours is the point where I got significantly better. I have around 3500 atm. Insane survivors usually have 5000+ in my experience.
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I want it to get nerfed just because I am curious about which perk people will whine about next. There is always something.
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Off The Record is a necessary defense against tunneling. It already doesn't work in the end game. If you remove that then you'd need to put in a basekit anti tunnel mechanic.
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@katoptris said:
Prestige means nothing in this game and trapper was way worse than he is now.
It probably does actually. A killer main on Reddit did a huge experiment and the high prestige survivors performed significantly better on average than the low prestige ones. Significantly more points and significantly higher escape rate. High prestige=more hours which usually means better player.
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Make a casual mode.
- No SWF
- No Nurse/Blight
- Heavy protection against tunneling, slugging, and camping
- Only brown items and addons
- No exhaustion or regression perks
- No map offerings allowed
- Fully anonymous where you load into the game immediately. No post game chat either.
I think it would work if done correctly.
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@Green_Sliche said:
I'd suggest the replacement of DC penalty with this kind of system :
Add a surrender button to survivor instead of leave game option. Upon surrender, survivor gets removed from the game ( may still spectate ) but loses all BPs earned in the current match and will get reduced BP earned in the next one. Continuous surrender will only increase the BP penalty as well extend itself on more matches ( like first surrender means only 75% of BP earned for 1 game, second drops it to 50% of BP earned for 2 games and so on ) until player reaches the point where no BPs are earned at all unless the game is played fully ( must stay in the match for X minutes to prevent players from intentionally dying asap for penalty removal ). This way players who want to leave can leave but will eventually hit the point where they can't ''progress'' at all as they won't be getting Bps from their matches unless they play sufficient amount of games ''properly''. The penalty could also be applied to Shard Fragments if needed but probably shouldn't impact the XP for Rift progression purpose.
Survivors already get terrible bloodpoints when compared to killer. No one would use this. They'd just run up to the killer and demand to be killed. Even getting bled out for four minutes would probably be more efficient than losing all of your bloodpoints and not getting many the next game.
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Feels good to actually having a chance to win in solo queue for once. No more hook grabs from facecamping, ridiculous hits after window vaults, etc
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From a survivor standpoint solo queue exists. What people need to understand is that not every survivor is playing in a sweaty SWF where everyone has 5000 hours minimum. People who play solo are mostly playing with duos and other solo players. In solo you are completely at the mercy of teammate RNG. There is a huge amount of variability in the skill of your teammates. My issue isn't that I get tunneled or die early. It's that my teammates get absolutely destroyed or just don't play efficiently. There's nothing I can do as an experienced player to make them play better. One person not pulling their weight leads to the killer steamrolling which is more common than not when you play solo queue exclusively. You absolutely do go on massive losing streaks when you play solo unless you are always playing for the hatch.
I don't complain about killer because I am a 3500+ hour player who destroys most teams I go up against. Big losing streaks are not a thing for me on killer and I very rarely feel like a game is "impossible". It's all because I don't have to deal with bad teammates. I'm not even an incredible killer. It's more that most survivors are awful.
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The lobby shouldn't even exist. You should just go straight into the loading screen. The lobby is only used so killers can cherry pick easy lobbies and bully weak survivors. At the very least checking profiles and prestiges before the game even starts need to go. I feel like matchmaking would work significantly better if we did this.
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Something definitely needs to be done about it. I finally decided to play some solo queue again earlier today and I was bled out FOUR times in the span of two hours while the killer looked for the last survivor. I eventually just logged off because of how tedious it was staring at the screen unable to do anything. I don't want basekit unbreakable. Just give me the option to bleed myself out after 30 seconds or a minute of being slugged when there are two people left.
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@BillToLast said:
Clarification that I need to make. You can still win most of your games as killer, but only for 1 simple reason:
Most survivor players in the game are low skill or have mixed priorities. And if you go up against a soloQ team, there is a 4x higher chance that at least one of them will be low skill.
Hens333 said that what makes an SWF team strong is not communication/discord. It's the fact that you have 4 good players with the winning mindset on the same team.
If all 4 survivors are as equally good as the killer, and the latter is not playing Nurse/Blight/Spirit with best addons, the survivors will have the win given to them for free.
The reason killers win most of their matches and can get good winstreaks is because most survivor teams are inefficient on generators. They will do dull totems, complete their glyph challenges, mess around and still have a chance to succeed.
I've had matches where I sacrificed all 4 survivors at 5 gens as Ghostface (without tunneling/camping), because they were not doing generators.
I've had matches that I lost as the Nurse despite getting a hook stage every 20 seconds, simply because the survivors were very gen efficient on a very large map.
Survivor gen efficiency determines the outcome of the match, and *good* survivors are almost guaranteed to win by default against anyone but the trio.
Bam there it is. You just acknowledged why DBD is not survivor sided and never will be. Killers who struggle to win consistently against randoms are just bad at the game. If killers were playing against Team Oracle every game then they'd have a real argument about DBD being survivor sided. 4 man SWF in particular is only like 3 percent of survivors to begin with. How many of them do you really think are esports caliber players? Every scenario about the game being survivor sided is hypothetical and does not reflect a typical match. "WELL IF YOU PLAY AGAINST FOUR SURVIVORS WHO ALL HAVE TEN THOUSAND HOURS AND MAKE NO MISTAKES THEN THE GAME IS SURVIVOR SIDED!"
also since we're talking about Otz : Otz said flat out on stream a month ago that the game is slightly killer sided for this very reason. He has also put out recent videos saying that the game does not actually massively favor either side and any advantages are very slight. People who genuinely believe that DBD is massively survivor sided are coping HARD.
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You're lying about the streamer in question. He even has his win loss record at the bottom of the stream. He wins nearly every game as doctor and has a 286/7/13 record recently. How is that getting destroyed left and right? I even skimmed through his games and he was literally winning nearly every game. Why say something that is verifiably untrue? At this point people are making things up to make MFT seem stronger than it really is. This is just the mentality of some killer mains. Winning 286 games and only losing 13 means getting destroyed apparently.
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The nerf was weird because it didn't hurt strong SWFs at all. All it did was hurt solo queue players. SWFs can still use it to do a full reset almost immediately thanks to the increased speed. Ayrun has been doing a four man escape streak and it's insane how fast they heal.
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I will never understand why people want to make the penalty even harsher than it already is. People who don't want to participate aren't going to. Stacking the penalty even higher will just make them start trolling and throwing a fit. It's only hurting the rest of the team.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
Lol, and every single lobby has multiple people running made for this, right? It's not even in the top ten.
People do exaggerate it but these stats started in April so it won't really reflect the current pick rate accurately.
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Another common sense thing I need to add. Survivor gains are OBJECTIVELY much worse than they were before prove and WGLF got gutted. The issue wasn't solved when they made the bloodweb 33% cheaper. Cheaper bloodweb doesn't matter much if you aren't earning any bloodpoints to begin with. In the past you could bring WGLF and get a guaranteed 100% extra bloodpoints in nearly every match. You could also bring prove and easily max out your objective score. To make things worse the game is objectively much harder for solo survivors than it was in the past. There are more games these days where you get absolutely destroyed and receive nothing as a result. A killer who loses badly can still get 20k base bloodpoints easily. If you're a new survivor who can only play during prime time hours then it's really bad. You don't even have the luxury of the bloodpoint incentive unless you can play in the morning. We're going in the wrong direction as far as survivor bloodpoints are concerned. Thankfully more people seem to be realizing it now that prove has been destroyed.
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This goes beyond the event. Survivor bloodpoints are just bad in general.
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People who really don't want to play aren't going to no matter how much harder you make it to get out of the game. They will just immediately run back to the killer and get downed again. Either that or they will start trolling. If you want less people to give up on hook then reduce the DC penalties to something more reasonable so people will be incentivized to DC instead of giving up on the hook and screwing their team over completely. The fact that they made the DC penalty more harsh after they added DC bots is pretty wild.
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Survivor desperately needs a BP buff. The current state of it is just not acceptable and makes grinding for anything take way too long. I have only played survivor once since the anniversary ended and the prove BP nerf went live. It's just too tedious grinding bloodpoints on survivor and feels like a waste of time to even queue up. I don't think we should get anniversary levels of BPs every game but buffing survivor BPs is needed. Objective bloodpoints are by far the worst. 1250 for doing an entire gen is absurd. It should be at least double this. I hate how Behavior changed Prove Thyself without realizing why 99% of people were using the perk to begin with. It was because they wanted more bloodpoints. Truthfully I think everything on the survivor side should give more BPs than it currently does. I can't speak for everyone but I would definitely play more if my time was being respected more than it currently is.
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Survivor scoring needs an overhaul in general. Playing survivor just feels bad from the perspective of someone who is trying to earn bloodpoints. Why they made it worse by getting rid of the prove BP bonus will never make sense to me. It would have been fine if they had buffed the amount you get for repairing a generator but they didn't for whatever reason. Meanwhile I can go play killer and get absurd amount of bloodpoints for very little effort. The devs need to go play ten games as a solo survivor and then ten as a killer to see how absurd the difference is. Maybe people wouldn't be so quick to off themselves on the hook if they were actually getting rewarded for their time investment.
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Survivor often isn't worth sticking around. You get terrible rewards compared to killer as far as bloodpoints go. Sometimes you can see a bad game coming and your best option is to quit and go next. There is no incentive to stay in a bad game as survivor.