I_CAME
I_CAME
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Disable it in the end game. The entire argument for DS and OTR not working in the end game is that it has no counterplay in certain situations. What is a solo team supposed to do against a killer who is facecamping with max stacks of save? It's a no win scenario. The only real choice you have is to leave and let the person on the hook die.
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Finally. This is the only chapter i've ever really wanted.
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It definitely isn't balanced with solo queue in mind. Solo players get DESTROYED more often than not. You don't even need to take my word for it. You can go on twitch watch reasonably good survivors play solo. They lose more than they win. Solo is still by far the hardest role to win in because you almost never get a full team of good survivors. All it takes is one idiot for the entire team to collapse. The game may favor survivors in the hypothetical scenario of a coordinated four man team where everyone knows what to do but this doesn't mean very much unless you are playing in one of these groups. In my experience killers losing to solo queue teams usually just comes down to killer incompetence. The kind of people who refuse to break god pallets or hard commit to the one guy with 7000 hours.
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Something IS going to be done about it. They said they would so i'm not sure what more you want. The entire point of the three gen videos by people like Hens and Otz is to draw attention to how absurd it is. The writing is on the wall at this point now that there is so much talk about it. I expect three gen will be totally killed off by the end of the year. I don't think anyone at behavior is looking at these 30+ minute games and thinking "yea this is good".
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The fact that kindred isn't basekit for people not playing in a group is still crazy to me. SWFs get this by default. It would eliminate A LOT of scenarios where no one goes for the unhook and someone ends up going to stage 2.
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Which game are some of you playing? The bots in my games are horrible. Definitely worse than the average survivor which is saying a lot.
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What they need to do is keep DC penalties but make the harshest punishments less harsh. No one should ever be banned for more than one hour. People might be more incentivized to DC if they weren't worried about absurd penalties stacking up. That and remove skill checks from stage 2.
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@ratcoffee said:
survivors are used to being able to ignore her condemn, once they realize it's no longer a non-factor they'll adapt
There is no adapting. It's just uncounterable in the current state. There are videos of 5000+ hour SWFs showing that you can't do anything if the Onryo knows how to play. You literally can't do gens because you build up so much condemn. This is something that will definitely be nerfed when they realize no one is capable of playing against it. Her kill rate is going to be astronomical if coordinated players with 5000+ hours can't handle her.
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@Tsulan said:
Patch has been barely out for a day. Give people some time to adjust and learn.
Most people are memeing anyway with nicolas cage.
Solo queue adjust and learn lmao.
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People complaining when nearly everything killers have complained about has already been nerfed. It's just trolling at this point
- Every objective metric shows that the game is slightly killer sided on average. Both third party and official statistics.
- Dead Hard - dead
- Decisive Strike - dead
- Circle of Healing - dead
- Iron Will - dead
- Prove Thyself - dead
- BNP - dead
- Gens - longer
- Self Healing - heavily nerfed
- Numerous survivor sided maps - heavily reworked to make them less survivor sided
I don't even know what people want anymore. They've addressed almost every killer complaint and people still whine. What is even left other than toolboxes and maybe a few maps? Both of which have been partially addressed with the BNP change and map reworks. At some point it becomes a git gud issue. As killer you can literally dodge an infinite amount of lobbies and shop for an easy match due to how killers are able to see prestiges, hours, etc. The game is as easy as you want it to be as killer.
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Sort of. Hook grabs being gone is amazing. On the other hand skull merchant is still in the game and hasn't been killswitched yet.
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I can't believe they didn't add more BPs to doing gens solo. Do they not realize how much lower survivor BP gains are compared to killer? Objective bloodpoints in particular are ridiculously low. You can get 1250 for an 80 second generator. The reward does not fit the time investment.
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The more dodges the sweatier the game. That's my personal experience in my 3500+ hours of gameplay. The killer who dodges is probably appropriate for your skill level. Then four of them dodge the lobby and you get a guy who readies up immediately. You immediately know you and your solo teammates are going to get destroyed. I can tell you from a killer POV that lobby dodging definitely gives you easier games. If you cherry pick lobbies then you can ensure that you rarely ever lose games. Literally just go play killer and you can verify that this is true. It just turns the game into a bullying simulator because no one wants to take the game the matchmaking initially gave them. People say "SWF IS unfair!" but have no issues with bullying weak solo teams. The hypocrisy is off the charts.
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Most survivors are not escaping 40% of games unless they play in a SWF or play for the hatch every game. The official escape rate before dead hard and circle got destroyed was 39% across ALL survivors. That didn't even count games with DCs which are a guaranteed loss. The real escape rate is definitely extremely low due to DC games being conveniently thrown out of the data. Anyone who plays this game knows how common DCs are. This would be even worse for solo survivors. I seriously doubt the average escape rate in solo queue was higher than 25-30% when you don't cherry pick data. The game in the current state is definitely not fair for solo players which is why you see so many give up so quickly compared to in the past. You basically have to play in a SWF to have a chance in a lot of games.
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Off The Record. it's so good and I have no idea how more people don't use it. It's huge when a proxy camping killer is trying to tunnel you. I've caused so many killers to completely throw the game trying to tunnel me because of this perk and it feels fantastic. The way it blocks aura perks and give you old iron will is great as well. So many games would be much closer if everyone ran this perk. It's going to be even better once killers are no longer able to facecamp.
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The game is just rigged against you in solo queue. You're meant to lose in order to drive the kill rates up. Even former comp DBD streamers like Ayrun acknowledged how they can't escape in solo queue and had to start SWFing to have a chance. Solo queue is just a miserable experience and you can't do anything to change it.
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@Peanits said:
We dove into this when we removed the Bloodpoint bonuses from BBQ & Chilli and We're Gonna Live Forever, but the gist is: We do not want Bloodpoints to dictate which perks you decide to use. Extra Bloodpoints, especially when the bonus is large, causes a lot of people to use a perk that they otherwise wouldn't have. This creates a situation where people feel the need to run that perk because if they don't, they aren't progressing as fast as they could be. This is not ideal, we want everyone to feel free to use the perks they want- whether they are the ones they consider the most useful or the most fun- not the ones that they need to in order to progress quickly.
This was a different story before the progression overhaul, but these days progression is much faster even without these bonuses. We're gradually phasing them out from various perks as they are updated.
Is there a reason you guys aren't buffing the BPs you get for objectives? They're extremely low at 1250 per gen. Survivor bloodpoints are already extremely low and unrewarding compared to killer. Might be a part of the reason why so many survivors rage quit. You could do all five gens by yourself and end up with only 6250 bloodpoints without accounting for skill checks. It doesn't really line up with the bloodpoints you get for other things over the course of a game. A quick unhook for example gets you 1500 and you are investing much less time. People might be more inclined to actually do the objective if they actually got a fair amount of points in return.
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You can't force people to play is the way i've always looked at it. Most people don't even DC. They just give up on the hook since it lets you dodge the penalty. I'm not sure how suggestions of making penalties longer is going to improve this. Just make the DC penalties shorter so people are more incentivized to DC instead of giving up on the hook. As long as DC penalties are harsh people will keep circumventing it. Sometimes the killer will slug survivors who intentionally give up. The thing is this rarely changes anything in my experience. They usually just go AFK and refuse to play.
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You really can tell when people have never stepped foot into solo queue and seen the complete lack of coordination on display. It's the same reason they're removing hook grabs, facecamping etc. Killers abuse things and demolish uncoordinated solos and then act shocked when they get changed.
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How do you make people want to play other killers? It's obviously not an issue of strength. Hag and Twins are both reasonably strong killers who destroy randoms. Artist is even stronger. Yet nobody wants to play them. You can't just make every killer a Wesker clone so that won't work either. It's a tough situation without an easy solution that won't piss everyone off. I definitely don't think Wesker being every other game is sustainable long term. I can speak from experience and say that playing against him so much has already made me start playing less. No killer variety is just boring and hurts the game. It was fine when he was new but he has more than worn out his welcome.
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1400 but my internet was obliterated in a severe thunderstorm and it took a week for a technician to come repair it. Missed an entire goddamn week worth of cakes.
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Killer - win 80% of my games at a minimum despite not being an amazing killer.
Survivor - Win maybe 20% of my games during the event. Probably 40-50% on a good day normally. The pallet mind breaking is just impossible to play against in solo queue. Even if you don't go down your teammate will. I play solo queue exclusively so it's pretty bad.
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Solo queue is awful so everyone has a short fuse. It's even worse during the event since killers can break pallets with their mind and zone you out so easily. I probably lost ten games in a row the other day. Something that has literally never happened to me outside of this event. There's only so much you can take before the rage sets in. Meanwhile on killer I can probably count on one hand how many games i've lost during the event. The last few days i've done nothing but play killer because of how terrible solo queue is.
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Better matchmaking. MMR should be strict or it should not exist at all. This weird middle ground we have now is awful. I see 5000 hour killers getting matched with 500 hour survivors and it goes about how you'd expect. Nearly every game I get is a stomp where one side gets destroyed. Very few of my games are close. I can go on a huge losing streak in solo and still getting matched with an alch ring blight trying to break the record for fastest 4K ever.
Nerfing cheese strategies that rely on survivors having no communication with each other. Facecamping is the biggest example of this which is thankfully going to be destroyed in a future update.
Hide profiles and prestige so killers can't lobby shop as easily. It breaks the matchmaking and lets them identify who is likely the easiest person to tunnel out before the game even starts. Killers like to whine about SWFs but will dodge eight lobbies until they get one full of inexperienced survivors that they can bully. It's frankly ridiculous.
I agree with removing hook suicides. Make people eat the DC penalty or stay in the game.
End the awkward slug for the 4K meta which leads to one guy having to sit on the ground for four minutes doing nothing. Give the slugged person the option to give up after a minute or so.
Add a command wheel of some kind. Just simple commands like "go rescue" , "heal", and "do gens".
There should probably be something to deincentivize tunneling as well but I have no idea how to solve this issue. I think better matchmaking would go a long way towards making this better. Most successful tunnels I see are inexperienced survivors being bullied. Survivors who shouldn't even be in the same lobby as the killer.
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In my 3400 hours I have never even come close to losing 20 games in a row. I think the highest I got was 6-7 when I was brand new and trying to play Pyramid Head. I don't know how people can lack the self awareness to realize that they just aren't very good. If you're losing 20 games in a row on normal killers then you're going to get destroyed as nurse.
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The killer advantages are absurd. The game was already hell for solo players. I won't miss them when they're gone. Thankfully this event at least exposed how ridiculous these two concepts are. I take comfort in knowing they'll never make it into the game as basekit additions.
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@Green_Sliche said:
So bunch of pros and people who play this game like for living have dominated some random pubs. Cool. What this sheet is supposed to demonstrate here? Because right now, I doubt anyone expected a different outcome when such players are matched with opponents via official MM.
It demonstrates that killer is not anywhere near as weak as delusional players make it out to be. It's unironically a skill issue if someone can't consistently win games as killer.
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I always try to save provided by my other teammates don't charge out the gate. The only other exception being if i'm on death hook and you're on the other side of the map/basement against a strong killer or one that excels at camping. No sense in both of us dying.
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This is such a sensible change and it still hasn't happened for whatever reason. Although I think they did mention the prestige part in the reddit Q&A.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
There haven't been any buffs. They want you to hook a survivor then immediately run all the way to the gen on the furthest side of the map and go for 12 hooks while gens are done in like 5 minutes. It doesn't compute. It's seriously way too easy to show the aura of the gen with the highest progress or auras of survivors within x meters of gens after hooking a survivor to seriously encourage not camping. I mean survivors got basekit BT and soon to be Deliverance
I mean in fairness it's the "your fun isn't my responsibility crowd" who are to blame for all of the basekit buffs survivors have received. These types of players went out of their way to tunnel immediately of the hook, three gen, and facecamp to the point where the game was miserable for average players who aren't on a coordinated team.
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Is his basekit fine tho? He has the best chase power in the game and the best mobility. A mechanic that prevents him from immediately rushing across the map and downing someone 5 seconds after a hook would be completely fair. He should have some sort of weakness rather than him being god tier everywhere like he currently is.
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These are completely reasonable changes that they need to consider. Devs need to look at objective bps because they’re BAD without prove.
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His day will come. Just gotta have patience. Maybe they’re waiting on that twitch steamer with the 1k blight win streak to reach 2000 wins in a row before they acknowledge how ridiculous this killer is.
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The fact that they didn’t buff the bps you get for repairing gens is insane. I can’t remember exactly but I think You get 1250-1500 for doing an entire generator solo. That is ridiculous and doesn’t line up with other scoring events in the game. A big reason people brought this perk had nothing to do with gen rushing. Survivor bp gains are already awful and they’re making it even worse. They should AT LEAST double the bps you get for doing gens solo. You could currently repair every gen and still not max objective. Does this not seem crazy to anyone else? This kind of thing especially matters to newer players who need bloodpoints.
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@mustdogen said:
Relax, i think they already know the problem, but can't nerf it in such a short time after the chapter release, so they add the op event power to killer to cover the problem, it might get changed after the event end, at least i believe so.
Or escape rates are still extremely low and everyone is blowing a new perk out of proportion as usual.
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It really is crazy that you can still see prestige level, hours, etc when it's only ever used to shop for easier games. My highest prestige character is my p80 Cheryl and I definitely notice a huge uptick in dodges when I try to play as her. I also notice far more difficult games that seem to correlate with the amount of dodges we get. It's anecdotal but I definitely feel like the dodges break the matchmaking.
"I uSe iT tO aVoiD hAcKerS bRO!!!!"
I also think that they need to overhaul survivor bloodpoints. Sometimes i'll just log off and not play for days. It's not a rage quit issue either. It's just me realizing it's not worth my time to invest time in a game where the rewards are horrendously low for one side. At least give us some sort of minimum amount of bloodpoints so we don't feel like we're wasting our time and getting nothing in return for it. What happens in solo queue in particular is very often out of our control. We shouldn't get no bloodpoints because we had the misfortune of getting matched with a 7000 hour blight who is determined to speed run a solo queue lobby that he dodged six other lobbies to get put into. If we're going to be miserable then at least give us something for our time.
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The only major gameplay change I want in the game other than anti camp is a heavy blight nerf. I am so sick of playing against this ridiculous killer in solo queue. Someone either gives up immediately or is tunneled out at four gens in every game.
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I'm not playing in a match where the killer brings a mori or a black ward. Get over it. Same goes if the survivors bring a map offering. You're wasting my time by not bringing a BP offering during an event that happens literally 3 weeks out of an entire year.
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The pallet one is way worse.
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People talking about balancing around top level play like this is a competitive shooter. You can't balance in the same way because both sides can't bring the same things. In most games if someone is using something busted then you can do the same thing yourself. There's nothing an ordinary survivor team can do to counter an alchemist ring blight with four slowdowns. They can't bring their own blight or nurse to even things out.
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Nearly every killer i've had is Wesker and Blight. It just doesn't stop. It's like they are the only killers in the game.
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I don't think they will ever kill slugging totally. What I think is more likely is they will do something about slugging for the 4K. The dragged out ten minutes of slug and pick up is one of the worst things in the game and isn't fun for anyone involved. Either that or the other guy hides while the slug bleeds out. It totally screws up the pace of a game.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459913#Comment_3459913
that was a year ago idk what you mean "just". Plus it wasnt an issue when they did that because they also birthed the gen kick meta, causing the overwhelming slowdown and gen time increases to tip the game into being killer favored. Now, since nearly all regression perks are dead, and survivor gen speed ups are untouched, its been reversed. Any killer without cray map mobility and/or built in slowdown with strong chase is going to suffer through 1 gen popping for every hook they get. Plus pain res is the strongest regression perk and punishes you for tunneling, meaning using it discourages using the most optimal (and annoying) strat.
almost no consistent regression + killer balance + survivor tools = gens too fast
Killers are getting at least 2 kills in 60% of games according to nightlight's most recent data. How high does this number need to be for you to be satisfied? Killers seem to be doing just fine based on the numbers. Make the game any harder and no one on the survivor side will want to play the game.
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I don't heal much because it's too slow to do so. You're more likely to win by just doing the gens instead. If you're adequately skilled then you don't need to heal constantly. Only baby survivors feel the need to heal every time they get unhooked.
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The only significant change they have made recently is making it so you cant infinitely stall gens anymore. Gen kick meta nerf made the three gen strategy much more difficult to pull off against a semi competent survivor team. I still lose quite a few games to skilled killers but I very rarely lose to bad killers anymore. That was by far the most frustrating thing about the gen kick meta. It enabled any terrible killer to win any game just by endlessly kicking gens. Now they have to actually chase. The game is much more fair than it was since it doesn’t reward free wins to below average killer players anymore.
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I'm not against perk reworks. I just hope they have given up on the idea of nerfing perks just to shake things up. Same with buffing perks without much thought given to it. That's how we ended up with the gen kick meta which led to the game being in arguably the least fun state ever. Overall I just want them to be more careful when messing with perks.
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Just do the whole "deactivates in end game" and call it a day. The real problem with this perk is how it can be stacked with hope and make nearly uncatchable survivors for the majority of the killer roster. The perk normally can be heavily mitigated with fearmonger and does not synergize with exhaustion perks. It does not need massive nerfs. In most cases you're already sacrificing an exhaustion perk in order to use it.
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"good SWFs still way to strong"
and they always will be. You can't make good players play badly. Especially not when there is a full team of them. That team with comp players that hens put together severely limited what they brought in their 200 game win streak and they were still winning. Good players will always be good. I don't see how you can nerf a player's skill. There aren't any nerfs that can stop a SEAL Team Six SWF from dominating against randoms in public matches.
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@adam1233467 said:
Corrupt, deadlock, new buffed pop, pais ressonance, jolt, do you need more?
You can really tell how many people were getting hard carried by the gen kick meta now that it has been nerfed. The amount of whining about not being able to infinitely regress gens is insane now.
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If only there was an already strong general killer perk that heavily counters this and exhaustion perks.